No, life cannot have meaning in a random universe. Next question?

_{Denyse O'Leary

November 11, 2018

Atheism, Intelligent Design, Science, theism}

Share: Facebook; Twitter; LinkedIn; Flipboard; Print; Email

In an excerpt from his recent book, Finding Purpose in a Godless World: Why We Care Even If the Universe Doesn’t, a psychiatrist explains how we can have meaning even though we don’t:

People assume that our human sense of purpose is dependent on the universe having a purpose, and without such purpose they assume that life has no meaning. This is a wholly unsubstantiated assumption. Our purposeless universe has become infused with local pockets of purpose, and this has happened through entirely natural, spontaneous processes. Purpose emerged in the universe with life itself. Purpose and meaning (and morality too) can be entirely explained as natural phenomena, emergent from a random, material universe.

All living creatures are purposeful. Simple creatures are goal-directed in rudimentary and non-conscious ways. Highly evolved creatures like us are purpose driven in complex, elaborate, conscious ways. The fact that all this evolved out of the very same basic life-instinct for gene replication does not detract from our motivation in the slightest. We have evolved to be exceedingly adept at being purpose-driven and meaning-making. Our ability to do so is in no way dependent on the universe having inherent purpose.Ralph Lewis, M.D., “Can Life Have Meaning in a Random Universe?” at Psychology Today

This author’s approach doesn’t really make any sense because if the universe has no purpose, how could we evolve to have purpose? Unless, of course, the purpose came from the outside, which would make one either a theist or a mystic. But then there is no reason to think the universe as a whole has no purpose.

Anyway, if our consciousness is an evolved illusion, it is all illusory anyway and the despairing existentialist atheists are right (though their despair is an illusion too).

Follow UD News at Twitter!

See also: Science-based morality: 400 years of failure? One really interesting development is the rise of social justice science, where even right answers are no longer a form of morality but rather a tool of oppression. Sadly, they are losing what they once had..

Comments

Thank you, Barry.daveS_{November 11, 2018
November
11
Nov
11
11
2018
01:35 PM
1
01
35
PM
PDT}

daveS
I’m not trying to show that either statement is wrong. I’m asking Barry if he thinks it is possible either is wrong.
I take it you mean these two statements: 1. I am deluding myself 2. if there is no God, then meaning is not possible As to 1, to the extent you assert there can be meaning in a meaningless universe, then you are wrong. The charitable inference is that you are wrong in good faith, which means you are deluding yourself. I admit I could be wrong. You might be lying. As to 2, no, it is not possible.Barry Arrington_{November 11, 2018
November
11
Nov
11
11
2018
01:03 PM
1
01
03
PM
PDT}

The wishing of “thoughts and prayers” after mass shootings is being mocked in some circles as simplistic to the point of being meaningless. We have come to agree. --- SNIP-- So now we have the issue of mass shootings which have become a several-times a year occurrence. Those who desire to disarm the sane and law-abiding cynically use them to advance their political cause. We, however, think it is far more about culture than it is about having access to immaterial objects. We have written several times about how school shootings started after abortion was declared a right. Correlation is not causation but correlations are something worth pointing out, and this correlation makes sense. Teach that it is up to the individual to determine whether a human life exists, and, well, who is to judge if an individual chooses in a way other than you would? How about the manner in which our society addresses the most important philosophical question: Why are we here? We teach our young that our existence is but due to a mere sequence of random events. Our courts, in fact, forbid teaching that we are designed, despite the quite reasonable inference of it being so. Imagine someone being on a moral fence and being inculcated by society that he is but an accident of nature and he should “do as thy will”. Now, imagine that someone being inculcated that he was created to love his neighbor. Which message is most likely to send him to the good side of the fence? http://billlawrenceonline.com/mass-shootings-thoughts-prayers/tribune7_{November 11, 2018
November
11
Nov
11
11
2018
12:36 PM
12
12
36
PM
PDT}

SA, I'm not trying to show that either statement is wrong. I'm asking Barry if he thinks it is possible either is wrong.daveS_{November 11, 2018
November
11
Nov
11
11
2018
12:09 PM
12
12
09
PM
PDT}

daveS
Is it possible that either of those is wrong?
Why not just show where it is wrong? Your proposal is based on a contradiction. It cannot possibly be correct.Silver Asiatic_{November 11, 2018
November
11
Nov
11
11
2018
12:06 PM
12
12
06
PM
PDT}

Barry,
If you are asking is it possible that two mutually exclusive truth claims can be true at the same time, the answer is “no, that is not possible.”
My question is not about that, but rather your assertions that I am deluding myself and that if there is no God, then meaning is not possible. Is it possible that either of those is wrong?daveS_{November 11, 2018
November
11
Nov
11
11
2018
11:54 AM
11
11
54
AM
PDT}

AaronS1978 @ 10. Every word you say is true IF there is not God. Not only is what you say true, it is glaringly obviously true. Why is it so hard for the daveS's and Seversky's of the world to admit that truth? Well, the answer to that is pretty clear too. They are afraid and instead of facing the harsh conclusions compelled by their premises they try to whistle past the graveyard.Barry Arrington_{November 11, 2018
November
11
Nov
11
11
2018
11:32 AM
11
11
32
AM
PDT}

Seversky:
The question for the theists is that if God is the eternal and necessary – in the philosophical sense – being they claim, if He is, by definition, not contingent on anything else, entirely self-sufficient then why bother to create a Universe at all?
Umm, that is a question for God, not theists.
And given that He existed for an eternity before creating this Universe and will continue to exist for an eternity after why did He create this Universe when He did?
Again, that is not a question for humans to answer. Look, if you don't dislike the God concept so much then get to work demonstrating your materialistic position has something more than denying the obvious.ET_{November 11, 2018
November
11
Nov
11
11
2018
11:26 AM
11
11
26
AM
PDT}

daveS
Is it possible that you are wrong?
If you are asking is it possible that two mutually exclusive truth claims can be true at the same time, the answer is "no, that is not possible."Barry Arrington_{November 11, 2018
November
11
Nov
11
11
2018
11:25 AM
11
11
25
AM
PDT}

The meaning of life is that there is no meaning of life, there is no purpose, that every single human being on this planet has to find their own particular meaning, which is meaningless because you have no purpose and you have no meaning to begin with. A scientist defining the meaning of existence, telling everybody else that there is no purpose or meaning, apparently doesn’t see the fact that what they are saying is no more purposeful and no more meaningful than anything else, if they are right. Everything inevitably will die, there is no point in any portion of existence other than measuring pleasure versus pain and that’s what it all really boils down to. We have evolved beyond replicating DNA and we only seek pleasure versus pain. If there is no meaning to existence then this is all that is important. And measuring how much pleasure you getting out of life versus how much pain can really lead you to some seriously dark places for yourself and others around you.AaronS1978_{November 11, 2018
November
11
Nov
11
11
2018
11:19 AM
11
11
19
AM
PDT}

Meaning? Purpose? Could it be that there's always meaning, but many times there's no purpose? All our experiences have meaning, though in most cases we don't look for it or don't know it. Is there subjective/relative meaning vs. objective/absolute meaning? Can meaning be correct or incorrect? Can meaning be conveyed and/or perceived only by conscious beings? Can purpose be set/determined/established only by conscious beings? Can purpose be relatively correct/incorrect or absolutely correct/incorrect? Are there relative right/wrong and absolute right/wrong?PaoloV_{November 11, 2018
November
11
Nov
11
11
2018
10:53 AM
10
10
53
AM
PDT}

Barry, Is it possible that you are wrong?daveS_{November 11, 2018
November
11
Nov
11
11
2018
10:50 AM
10
10
50
AM
PDT}

The next gambit A-Mats tend to employ after the deluding themselves is to try to change the subject so they don't have to think about the meaninglessness inherent in their worldview. We see Seversky employing this tactic in comment 6.Barry Arrington_{November 11, 2018
November
11
Nov
11
11
2018
10:47 AM
10
10
47
AM
PDT}

The question for the theists is that if God is the eternal and necessary - in the philosophical sense - being they claim, if He is, by definition, not contingent on anything else, entirely self-sufficient then why bother to create a Universe at all? And given that He existed for an eternity before creating this Universe and will continue to exist for an eternity after why did He create this Universe when He did? A necessary God would have no unmet need which would require the creation of a Universe. If He did experience an unmet need then He becomes a contingent being and cannot fulfill the role that Christian theology requires of Him.Seversky_{November 11, 2018
November
11
Nov
11
11
2018
10:44 AM
10
10
44
AM
PDT}

daveS:
Would you elaborate on how you know I’m deluding myself?
Sure, it is really quite simple. Either there is a God or there is not. If there is a God, meaning is possible. If there is no God, meaning is not possible. Let us, therefore, assume for the sake of argument that an atheist such as yourself is correct. There is no God. Therefore, meaning is not possible. I don't know what that is so hard to understand. Of course, this is not to say that an atheist cannot insist that he has created a pocket of meaning for himself, just like Dr. Lewis in the OP and you in comment 1. What do you say to such people? They insist that meaning exists at the same time they insist on a universe in which meaning is impossible. Well, you tell such people they are deluding themselves. They can have their atheism or they can have their meaning. But the cannot have both. Any attempt to have both is delusional.Barry Arrington_{November 11, 2018
November
11
Nov
11
11
2018
09:44 AM
9
09
44
AM
PDT}

"Unless, of course, the purpose came from the outside..." Maybe the inside IS the outside.Deputy Dog_{November 11, 2018
November
11
Nov
11
11
2018
08:38 AM
8
08
38
AM
PDT}

Barry, And your post could be Exhibit B. It is hard to discuss a subject when one of the participants concludes the other is deluding himself. On the other hand, you could be right. Would you elaborate on how you know I'm deluding myself?daveS_{November 11, 2018
November
11
Nov
11
11
2018
07:26 AM
7
07
26
AM
PDT}

daveS,
This whole issue of “purpose” is hard for theists and atheists to discuss.
That is true. And your post is Exhibit A for why that is true. It is hard to discuss a subject when one of the participants in the discussion insists on deluding themselves about it.Barry Arrington_{November 11, 2018
November
11
Nov
11
11
2018
07:18 AM
7
07
18
AM
PDT}

This whole issue of "purpose" is hard for theists and atheists to discuss. It can be very difficult for a theist to understand the atheist's perspective and vice-versa. I have seen evidence of this in deconversion stories---when a person loses their faith in god, they seem to go through a period of disorientation, where a lot of what they knew before doesn't make sense anymore. Eventually, they understand that it's not that bad. Even if they weren't specially created by god, that's not the end of the world. I enjoy my life and find purpose through helping others and pursuing my own interests. I have no worries about lacking a "higher" purpose that a god might have infused me with.daveS_{November 11, 2018
November
11
Nov
11
11
2018
07:00 AM
7
07
00
AM
PDT}

Prev 1 2 3

You must be logged in to post a comment.

Leave a Reply