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Or we could picture spacetime as a fluid …

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spacetime as fluid/Deyan Georgiev, Fotolia

We just had a look at a thesis that time’s arrow originated in a quantum source (but the thesis didn’t account for the Big Bang).

Here’s another description of the problem of space and time—liquid spacetime: What if spacetime were a kind of fluid?:

This is the question tackled by theoretical physicists working on quantum gravity by creating models attempting to reconcile gravity and quantum mechanics. Some of these models predict that spacetime at the Planck scale is no longer continuous – as held by classical physics – but discrete in nature. Just like the solids or fluids we come into contact with every day, which can be seen as made up of atoms and molecules when observed at sufficient resolution. A structure of this kind generally implies, at very high energies, violations of Einstein’s special relativity (a integral part of general relativity).

So if we can’t dump the Big Bang, we could maybe dump Einstein?

What does that old guy reading think? Get a quote from him, will ya?

old Persian scholar/ Cummings

Be happy for this moment. This moment is your life.

Okay then, re time: Make the most of it. They sure ain’t makin’ no more of it than sixty seconds a minute.

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See also: In search of a road to reality

16 Replies to “Or we could picture spacetime as a fluid …

  1. 1
    Dionisio says:

    Or we could picture spacetime as a fluid …

    That sounds neat! But, is it blue? For some strange reason I can’t picture it yellow… maybe I should take an unbiased approach to pick the color? 😉

  2. 2
    Dionisio says:

    Does the subject of this OP qualify to have the “Vodka” designation on its title? 😉

  3. 3
    bornagain77 says:

    My initial reaction to this paper, and the previous paper, is that ‘theoretical physicists have way to much time (pun) on their hands’! 🙂

    As an aside to trying to drag Einstein’s relativity into this, Einstein was asked (by a philosopher):

    “Can physics demonstrate the existence of ‘the now’ in order to make the notion of ‘now’ into a scientifically valid term?”

    Einstein’s answer was categorical:

    “The experience of ‘the now’ cannot be turned into an object of physical measurement, it can never be a part of physics.”

    Quote was taken from the last few minutes of this following video:
    Stanley L. Jaki: “The Mind and Its Now”

    The preceding statement was an interesting statement for Einstein to make since ‘the now of the mind’ has, from many recent experiments in quantum mechanics, undermined the space-time of Einstein’s General Relativity as to being the absolute frame of reference for reality. i.e. ‘the now of the mind’, contrary to what Einstein thought possible for experimental physics, and according to advances in quantum mechanics, takes precedence over past events in time.

    Quantum physics mimics spooky action into the past – April 23, 2012
    Excerpt: According to the famous words of Albert Einstein, the effects of quantum entanglement appear as “spooky action at a distance”. The recent experiment has gone one remarkable step further. “Within a naïve classical world view, quantum mechanics can even mimic an influence of future actions on past events”, says Anton Zeilinger.

    “If we attempt to attribute an objective meaning to the quantum state of a single system, curious paradoxes appear: quantum effects mimic not only instantaneous action-at-a-distance but also, as seen here, influence of future actions on past events, even after these events have been irrevocably recorded.”
    Asher Peres, Delayed choice for entanglement swapping. J. Mod. Opt. 47, 139-143 (2000).

    You can see a more complete explanation of the startling results of the experiment at the 9:11 minute mark of the following video

    Delayed Choice Quantum Eraser Experiment Explained – 2014 video

    Moreover, due to advances in quantum mechanics, it would now be much more appropriate to phrase Einstein’s answer to the philosopher in this way:

    “It is impossible for the experience of ‘the now of the mind’ to ever be divorced from physical measurement, it will always be a part of physics.”

    Note to that effect:

    Quantum Physics – (material reality does not exist until we look at it) – Dr. Quantum video

    Quantum physics says goodbye to reality – Apr 20, 2007
    Excerpt: They found that, just as in the realizations of Bell’s thought experiment, Leggett’s inequality is violated – thus stressing the quantum-mechanical assertion that reality does not exist when we’re not observing it. “Our study shows that ‘just’ giving up the concept of locality would not be enough to obtain a more complete description of quantum mechanics,” Aspelmeyer told Physics Web. “You would also have to give up certain intuitive features of realism.”

    And, of course, Special relativity itself gives support to the notion that out temporal reality arises from the quantum ‘now of the mind’ physics. ‘If’ a hypothetical observer were to accelerate to the speed of light time, as we understand it, would come to a complete stop for the hypothetical observer. To grasp the whole ‘time coming to a complete stop at the speed of light’ concept a little more easily, imagine moving away from the face of a clock at the speed of light. Would not the hands on the clock stay stationary as you moved away from the face of the clock at the speed of light? Moving away from the face of a clock at the speed of light happens to be the same ‘thought experiment’ that gave Einstein his breakthrough insight into e=mc2.

    Albert Einstein – Special Relativity – Insight Into Eternity – ‘thought experiment’ video

    This ‘thought experiment’ is verified by actual experiment:

    Velocity time dilation tests

    “The laws of relativity have changed timeless existence from a theological claim to a physical reality. Light, you see, is outside of time, a fact of nature proven in thousands of experiments at hundreds of universities. I don’t pretend to know how tomorrow can exist simultaneously with today and yesterday. But at the speed of light they actually and rigorously do. Time does not pass.”
    Richard Swenson – More Than Meets The Eye, Chpt. 12

    And Einstein’s ‘thought experiment’ also finds corroboration in Near Death Experience testimonies:

    ‘In the ‘spirit world,,, instantly, there was no sense of time. See, everything on earth is related to time. You got up this morning, you are going to go to bed tonight. Something is new, it will get old. Something is born, it’s going to die. Everything on the physical plane is relative to time, but everything in the spiritual plane is relative to eternity. Instantly I was in total consciousness and awareness of eternity, and you and I as we live in this earth cannot even comprehend it, because everything that we have here is filled within the veil of the temporal life. In the spirit life that is more real than anything else and it is awesome. Eternity as a concept is awesome. There is no such thing as time. I knew that whatever happened was going to go on and on.’
    Mickey Robinson – Near Death Experience testimony – video

    ‘When you die, you enter eternity. It feels like you were always there, and you will always be there. You realize that existence on Earth is only just a brief instant.’
    Dr. Ken Ring – has extensively studied Near Death Experiences

    ‘Earthly time has no meaning in the spirit realm. There is no concept of before or after. Everything – past, present, future – exists simultaneously.’
    – Kimberly Clark Sharp – NDE Experiencer

    ‘There is no way to tell whether minutes, hours or years go by. Existence is the only reality and it is inseparable from the eternal now.’
    – John Star – NDE Experiencer

    This higher dimension, ‘eternal’, inference for the time framework of light is warranted, by logic, because light is not ‘frozen within time’, i.e. light appears to move to us in our temporal framework of time, yet it is shown that time, as we understand it, does not pass for light. The only way this is possible is if light is indeed of a higher dimensional value of time than our temporal time is otherwise light would simply be ‘frozen in time’ to our temporal point of observation. Another line of evidence that supports the inference that ‘tomorrow can exist simultaneously with today and yesterday’, at the ‘eternal’ speed of light, is visualizing what would happen if a hypothetical observer were to approach the speed of light. Please note, at the 3:22 minute mark of the following video, when the 3-Dimensional world ‘folds and collapses’ into a tunnel shape as a ‘hypothetical’ observer moves towards the ‘higher dimension’ of the speed of light, (Of note: This following video was made by two Australian University Physics Professors with a supercomputer.).

    Approaching The Speed Of Light – Optical Effects – video

  4. 4
    bornagain77 says:

    And even this tunnel to a ‘higher dimension’ aspect of special relativity finds verification in Near Death Experience testimonies:

    Ask the Experts: What Is a Near-Death Experience (NDE)? – article with video
    Excerpt: “Very often as they’re moving through the tunnel, there’s a very bright mystical light … not like a light we’re used to in our earthly lives. People call this mystical light, brilliant like a million times a million suns…”
    – Jeffrey Long M.D. – has studied NDE’s extensively

    The NDE and the Tunnel – Kevin Williams’ research conclusions
    Excerpt: “I started to move toward the light. The way I moved, the physics, was completely different than it is here on Earth. It was something I had never felt before and never felt since. It was a whole different sensation of motion. I obviously wasn’t walking or skipping or crawling. I was not floating. I was flowing. I was flowing toward the light. I was accelerating and I knew I was accelerating, but then again, I didn’t really feel the acceleration. I just knew I was accelerating toward the light. Again, the physics was different – the physics of motion of time, space, travel. It was completely different in that tunnel, than it is here on Earth. I came out into the light and when I came out into the light, I realized that I was in heaven.”
    Barbara Springer – Near Death Experience – The Tunnel – video

    Flatland is useful for illustrating why this higher dimension, which is above this dimension, is invisible to our 3-Dimensional sight:

    Dr. Quantum in Flatland – 3D in a 2D world – video

    Also of note, hypothetically traveling at the speed of light in this universe would be instantaneous travel for the person going at the speed of light. This is because time does not pass for them, yet, and this is a very big ‘yet’ to take note of; this ‘timeless’ travel is still not instantaneous and transcendent to our temporal framework of time (as quantum entanglement is). Speed of light travel, to our temporal frame of reference, is still not completely transcendent of our framework since light appears to take time to travel from our temporal perspective. Yet, in quantum entanglement, the ‘time not passing’, i.e. ‘eternal’, framework is not only achieved in the speed of light framework/dimension, but is also ‘instantaneously’ achieved in our temporal framework. That is to say, the instantaneous entanglement of quantum information is instantaneous to both the temporal and speed of light frameworks, not just the speed of light framework.

    Looking beyond space and time to cope with quantum theory – 29 October 2012
    Excerpt: Outside the boundary, either the influences can’t stay hidden, or they must have infinite speed.,,, “Our result gives weight to the idea that quantum correlations somehow arise from outside spacetime, in the sense that no story in space and time can describe them,”

    Quantum theory survives latest challenge – Dec 15, 2010
    Excerpt: Even assuming that entangled photons could respond to one another instantly, the correlations between polarization states still violated Leggett’s inequality. The conclusion being that instantaneous communication is not enough to explain entanglement and realism must also be abandoned.
    This conclusion is now backed up by Sonja Franke-Arnold and collegues at the University of Glasgow and University of Strathclyde who have performed another experiment showing that entangled photons exhibit,, stronger correlations than allowed for particles with individually defined properties – even if they would be allowed to communicate constantly.

    Quantum entanglement is not limited by time, nor space, in any way, shape or form, in any frame of reference, as light is seemingly limited to us in this temporal framework. Thus quantum entanglement/information is shown to be timeless (eternal) and completely transcendent of all material frameworks. Moreover, concluding from all lines of evidence we now have (many of which I have not specifically listed here); transcendent, eternal, infinite information is indeed real and the framework in which ‘It’ resides is the primary reality (highest dimension) that can exist.

    “An illusion can never go faster than the speed limit of reality”
    Akiane Kramarik – Child Prodigy –

    Logic also dictates ‘a decision’ must have been made, by the ‘transcendent, eternal, infinite information’ from the primary timeless (eternal) reality ‘It’ inhabits, in order to purposely create a temporal reality.

    What Properties Must the Cause of the Universe Have? – William Lane Craig – video

    Verse and Music:

    Ecclesiastes 3
    To every thing there is a season, and a time for every purpose under the heaven:

    Steve Miller Band – Fly Like An Eagle (1976) (Original Version) – music video

    Supplemental note:

    Time Asymmetry: Time’s Quantum Arrow Has a Preferred Direction, New Analysis Shows – (Nov. 19, 2012) —
    Excerpt: Time marches relentlessly forward for you and me; watch a movie in reverse, and you’ll quickly see something is amiss. But from the point of view of a single, isolated particle, the passage of time looks the same in either direction. For instance, a movie of two particles scattering off of each other would look just as sensible in reverse — a concept known as time reversal symmetry. Digging through nearly 10 years of data from billions of particle collisions, researchers found that certain particle types change into one another much more often in one way than they do in the other, a violation of time reversal symmetry and confirmation that some subatomic processes have a preferred direction of time. Now the BaBar experiment at the Department of Energy’s (DOE) SLAC National Accelerator Laboratory has made the first direct observation of a long-theorized exception to this rule.
    Reported this week in the journal Physical Review Letters, the results are impressively robust, with a 1 in 10 tredecillion (10^43) or 14-sigma level of certainty — far more than needed to declare a discovery.
    “It was exciting to design an experimental analysis that enabled us to observe, directly and unambiguously, the asymmetrical nature of time,”,,,
    taking advantage of the quantum entanglement of the B mesons, which enables information about the first decaying particle to be used to determine the state of its partner at the time of the decay, they were able to find that these transformations happened six times more often in one direction than the other.

  5. 5
    Mapou says:

    I cringe every time I read about clueless physicists talking about spacetime as if it were a dynamic structure. The surprising truth is that nothing can change in spacetime, by definition. This is why Karl Popper called spacetime “Einstein’s block universe in which nothing happens.” Source: Conjectures and Refutations.

    The spacetime concept is pure nonsense. It does not exist because it is illogical. And it’s illogical because its existence would forbid motion. Does this mean that Einstein’s spacetime physics is pure hogwash? Answer: Yes. And there are other reasons: it is a deterministic model in a non-deterministic reality; it calls for a continuum in a discrete universe; it denies nonlocality in a nonlocal universe. IOW, Einstein’s spacetime physics is no better than Ptolemaic epicycles because it explains absolutely nothing. It’s a pathetic way of doing physics, IMO.

  6. 6
    Box says:

    Bohemian Gravity – on youtube, a must see.

  7. 7
    Box says:

    #6 excuse me, wrong link. This is the right link: Bohemian Gravity

  8. 8
    Mapou says:

    Box @6,

    Awesome. The only way to make sense of it all is to get stoned out of your mind. Problem is, you can never remember why it made sense to you while you were stoned. Physics is only for stoners. 😀

  9. 9
    Eric Anderson says:

    Box @6:

    Awesome! And H/T to the guy who put that together — an incredible amount of work.

  10. 10
    Robert Byers says:

    I know only a little of this stuff but its probably not that hard.
    the thing i noticed was how Einsteins idea did bring back the fluid concept away from Newtons machine concept. a gain for creationism. both are fine but a simple machine seemed to go against a complex thinking being. Too simple.
    So its possible everything is just like in a river or the air. iTs constant interference in a fixed substance and it creates vortices as it were.
    the earth is in a vortex from its interfering with space/time.
    All this means its endless to find the final equation for the universe.

  11. 11
    Dionisio says:

    This whole subject is far above and beyond my limited capacity to visualize such level of abstraction.
    It simply blows my mind.

  12. 12
    Dionisio says:

    Box @ 7

    Wow! Now, that’s artistic talent at its best.

  13. 13
    bornagain77 says:

    OMEGA Co-Axial Chronometer – The perfect mechanical movement – video

    A Surreal Look at Time – video

    Shatter Me Featuring Lzzy Hale – Lindsey Stirling

    The Mountain – Inspirational video

  14. 14
    mullerpr says:

    I have a suspicion that Einstein and most interpretations of his work made a simple identity mistake. What Special and General Relativity seems to imply is not time or space-time. It is more likely the rate of physical events/change as a function of the energy and momentum in 3 dimentional space. The more matter and energy in a region of 3D space the slower interacrions happen and the slower the interaction the more curved 3D motion looks in the universal flow of reality that we all experience in absolute time, the only type of time that can be experienced.

  15. 15
    bornagain77 says:

    Fr. Georges Lemaître — Father of the Big Bang – video
    In January 1933, the Belgian mathematician and Catholic priest Georges Lemaitre traveled with Albert Einstein to California for a series of seminars. After the Belgian detailed his Big Bang theory, Einstein stood up applauded, and said, “This is the most beautiful and satisfactory explanation of creation to which I have ever listened.”

  16. 16
    bornagain77 says:

    Contrasts | Timelapse Contest Entry – video

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