Paul Myers the Serial Gatecrasher

_{March 29, 2008

Intelligent Design}

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Well, if anyone still had any doubts about Myers this should eliminate them. He admits his aim is “misbehavior”. If it weren’t for misbehavior like that locks and keys would never have been invented.

Go to Myers’ blog to read more:

I always aim to misbehave

Comments

DLH and others have pushed the absurd notion that PZ is a Darwinian fascist. Think of me as Lucy for a moment, and allow me to share five cents' worth of psychiatric diagnosis for free. (I've done this only twice before, and both of the patients were IDists.) What is evident in PZ's "they put it plain sight / they said it out loud / they were unprofessional" justification of his misbehavior is sociopathy. I know that psychopath sounds worse, and some of you will therefore itch to use the term, but it doesn't fit. Mental health professionals say, somewhat whimsically, that the main difference between sociopaths and psychopaths is that sociopaths are more likely to get caught. Anyone who is so disorganized in his amoral behavior that he cannot keep his big mouth shut after sneaking into a teleconference is sociopathic. I know that sociopathy is no longer in the DSM. Sociopaths and psychopaths are lumped together as antisocial personalities. You have my permission to get all the mileage out of that you like, provided you keep in mind that some shrinks believe that one in four high-level corporate executives is antisocial. Perhaps DLH can link the ills of corporate America to Darwinism. Or perhaps he'll argue that Darwinism is the cause of antisocial personality disorder. Yeah, that's the ticket.Turner Coates_{March 29, 2008
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Questions now are being raised over the legality of expelleds latest marketing ploy, to give the top 5 theater's $1000 "rebate". http://getexpelled.com/groupsalesapplication.php I have to wonder is this simply the initial cash injection or all that there is, as It seems like small beer compared with, for example, the money spent on the opening night of Fahrenheit 9/11 which I believe they've stated they want to beat. Is $5000 just a starting point? Should expelled form an action group to canvas for donations to involve potentially many more screens in the competition for cashback?f.blair_{March 29, 2008
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FtK "Opportunity knocks" I've had a look at your blog and it seems you are something like 50% about this issue! Seems to be you'd like a little of the blogpulse action yourself huh? There's nothing wrong with that, no shame, if there's a popular wagon everybody wants a ride. And looking at PZ's blog it seems he's blogged on a wider range of subjects then you recently. I understand you want to give as much coverage to the film as possible, of course, but as you say "He seems to be wanting to get his name out there by whatever means necessary" and so it seems to me you are really helping him achieve his aim by covering him like you are on your blog. Nes pa?f.blair_{March 29, 2008
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FtK: "Dude, all the gossip is going on at the scienceblogs." Yes, it's great stuff and I've read alot of it but it's not overwhelmingly positive in expelled's favor. Sure, the public are hearing about it but that was what the pre-release buzz private showings were about too and that was I suppose where the unadulterated pure vibe was to be had, the blogs are far more varied in their coverage. "Myers has played right into their hands." PZ got himself expelled from a showing of expelled. I know there's a saying there's no such thing as bad publicity but there's wins and losses on both sides here with this incident. And if expelled is about people being expelled and "all of it" is currently providing evidence for that, what do you mean? Who is PZ, as representative of all that expelled is about, expelling here? What is is suppressing? Seems everybody currently has their right to free speech unimpeded.f.blair_{March 29, 2008
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William Wallace "Is it any wonder why some some might be concerned about a malcontent sneaking into a theater with brass knuckles and steel toed boots?" Whatever the rights and wrongs of the "URL scandal" I don't call using your own name to sign in "sneaking". And just because PZ has a different POV to you does that automatically make him a malcontent? After all Dr Dembski recently sent some students to a talk to a known associate of PZ, Dawkins, and asked them to shake his hand and send greetings.f.blair_{March 29, 2008
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"He obviosly [sic] thinks he’s helping his own cause, expelled think he is helping theirs. I guess the only way to tell is if they release the web stats for the extra web traffic!" Are you serious? Dude, all the gossip is going on at the scienceblogs. Shoot, I'm an ID and Expelled supporter, but I've only visited Expelled a few times to read their two posts. I've been all over the scienceblog sites many times over to read the insanity going on in the science bloggin' community. They're running scared and starting to eat each other alive. I send people to Myers blog all the time...they freak. He's certainly not an asset to science. It's highly entertaining, and virtually all of it provides evidence for everything that Expelled is relaying to the public about the "scientific community". Myers has played right into their hands. A sequel to the movie would be awesome...The Fallout over Expelled: The "Scientific Community" in a Overwhelming PanicFtK_{March 29, 2008
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It seems the expelled crew may have concentrated their efforts on Florida, with perhaps many more of the Expelled theaters in the country there then could be expected if randomly selected. Is this a coincidence or possibly related to the legislation currently pending there?f.blair_{March 29, 2008
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FtK - Don't forget he's getting an awful lot of traffic to his own blog, it's not all going to the expelled website. So people get to hear his side of the story first, stridently told. First I've heard about a book from PZ but you can hardly criticize him for that, after all many ID proponents find that it's better to publish their arguments in book form and have stated as much. So sauce for the goose etc! :) Is he helping his opponents though? He obviosly thinks he's helping his own cause, expelled think he is helping theirs. I guess the only way to tell is if they release the web stats for the extra web traffic! FtK, if his book is purely science related and presumably therefore could provide quality science education you would agree with, would you consider buying it? If not, why?f.blair_{March 29, 2008
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"Don’t you think that this is not about disparaging Expelled as much as getting awareness for PZ Myers. If someone wanted to draw attention to himself, then PZ is doing a good job." Bingo. I thought about this last week. It's difficult to believe that he's stupid enough to be giving all this publicity to Expelled without some other objective. You know...he's been working on a book for quite some time now. From what I understand it's getting close to completion. Opportunity knocks...never mind that he's helping his opponents at the moment. I think his bigger objective is to proselytize for atheism rather than promote "good science" [sic]. He seems to be wanting to get his name out there by whatever means necessary. It will be interesting to see if his book is science related or an atheist screed.FtK_{March 29, 2008
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Interesting. You know Ron Paul rejects Darwinian Evolution.DeepDesign_{March 29, 2008
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Is it any wonder why some some might be concerned about a malcontent sneaking into a theater with brass knuckles and steel toed boots? BTW, whomever at Exepelled got the PT-mafia to promote the Machine video--brilliant.William Wallace_{March 29, 2008
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So if the management of Expelled intentionally left a few security holes, expecting that some bright-watt like PZ would "take the bait", was this intelligently designed, or were they victims of random chance. To what extent is nature "designed to evolve"? To what extent has the designer arranged for open invitations to mutation and selection just like the management of Expelled gave opportunity for wize folk like PZ to publicize the movie?bFast_{March 29, 2008
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dml I didn't trivialize rape. The notion was put foward that by allowing themselves to be vulnerable it excuses PZ Myers for taking advantage of the vulnerability. This immediately reminded me of certain religious fanatics who say that an attactive women who dresses provocatively invites rape. All I did was ask the proponent of the vulnerability excuse how far he extended that logic by choosing the most egregious example of it I could think of. If he indicates he doesn't extend the logic that far then we'll have agreed in principle that the vulnerability excuse is without merit in at least some instances and we could then proceed to find out exactly where he draws the line. My next question would have been does he excuse shoplifting if a store doesn't undertake Draconian measures to prevent it. I fully expected no response as the rape example makes the point about the lack of merit in the vulnerability excuse quite well. If it weren't for people like PZ Myers locks and keys would never have been invented.DaveScot_{March 29, 2008
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I think it's pretty obvious that Myers is playing a "don't throw me in the briar patch" game -- driving web traffic to his site. Any marketing text will tell you that _all_ of this is a game -- the only way to lose is if no one notices. The rest is sound and fury -- Myers in particular has made himself irrelevant to the ethical side of this discussion. He and the others can carry on all they want, but they made a mistake when they determined that the ends justified the means when addressing the cultural issues surrounding both organized religion, and the philosophical position of the ID movement. God help them if they encounter a group willing to play them by their own rules.wnelson_{March 29, 2008
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Don't you think that this is not about disparaging Expelled as much as getting awareness for PZ Myers. If someone wanted to draw attention to himself, then PZ is doing a good job. He wants to be a player and he is ensuring that he is on the first team. It is not often that you get to play with the Michael Jordan of atheism, Richard Dawkins.jerry_{March 29, 2008
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leo You might have a point if the way the conference call was handled was out-of-the-ordinary. But it wasn't. This is exactly how these calls are structured in the business world. I happened to know this because I participated as a listener in many earnings conference calls during the late 1990's when I had a large exposure in a volatile high tech stock. The speaking participants never included anyone other than relevant executives at the company whose financial results were being discussed and financial analysts from large Wall Street brokerages. The open nature of the calls for listeners is done so that there's no appearance of inside information being given out in private to select vested interests. The closed nature of the calls for speakers is to maintain order and decorum. Just imagine the noise alone if hundreds of people have an active microphone - you'd hear them coughing, sneezing, talking in the background, and all sorts of other things. What Myers did was a violation of the most widely accepted standard (Robert's Rules of Order) for meeting decorum by speaking without first being recognized to speak. I don't expect a buffoon like PZ Myers to know all, or even a significant fraction of, Robert's Rules of Order but this is one rule that most people are quite well aware of. DaveScot_{March 29, 2008
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Trivialization of rape is hardly appropriate.dnmlthr_{March 29, 2008
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I'm deleting any comments containing factual errors. Myers already admitted on his own blog in his own words he misbehaved, was not invited to speak, and obtained the necessary access code by overhearing it. I'm not sure I believe his story about overhearing the code on the conference call itself but rather he just made that up to protect the real source of the inside information. Either way it's an established fact that he knew he disruptively spoke out of order. DaveScot_{March 29, 2008
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Denyse I too suspect that Myers was purposely given enough rope to hang himself.DaveScot_{March 29, 2008
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Dave is exactly right... "So you’re basically saying that Mathis is stupid for trusting that biology professors will conduct themselves in a courteous professional manner? Do you call rape victims stupid for putting themselves in a vulnerable position too? Personally I blame the criminal, not the victim, for the crime."FtK_{March 29, 2008
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The invitation to "the crew" of Panda's Thumb was to listen to the conference call. They were given a phone number and participant code. Through those numbers they could not talk but only listen. Myers admitted on his blog that he accidently overheard the participant code for two-way callers, hung up, redialed, and entered into the conference as a speaker. Charles is exactly right about how these kinds of conference calls are handled. It's done exactly the same way in the corporate world when earnings are announced and done so often it has a common name earnings conference call.DaveScot_{March 29, 2008
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I think there's a bigger story than who's punking whom in the PR game/Buzz generation thing. I've seen Myers and the usual members of the goon squad blanching over the *gasp* Nazi business, but I've yet to see _any_ of them deny that they are blacklisting/creating a McCarthyesque atmosphere in academia. Satire herself stands mute.offcenter_{March 29, 2008
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O'Leary: One of my friends wonders if they were actually setting PZ up, knowing he’d take the bait. I doubt it. I'm sure they were cognizant of the risk that whatever was discussed in the call would be leaked wherever, as are all conf call sponsors cognizant. If anything, they foresaw this and future incidents, and conducted their business with normal and reasonable practices, knowing that any future legal recourse would pivot on proving PZ Myers' misrepresentations and misbehaviour, and that if and when it becomes cost/effective and prudent to do so, they'll obtain a restraining order against his miscreant six.Charles_{March 29, 2008
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One of my friends wonders if they were actually setting PZ up, knowing he'd take the bait.O'Leary_{March 29, 2008
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sparc: Actually the mail was send to the crew of pandasthumb which the producers of EXPELLED seemingly judged as a media partner. Or is it the crew of Pandasthumb registered themselves as a media partner and producers of Expelled relied upon pandasthumb's representation and presumed willingness to act accordingly as a legitmate media partner? Do you seriously believe Mathis et.al. sought out Pandas Thumb as a "media partner" and invited them to the conference call? Or did Pandas Thumb seek access to Expelled PR and (mis)represented themselves as "media partners"? Did pandasthumb then further disregard the premise of being a legitimate "media partner" and provide PZ Myers (who then likewise becomes a "media partner" by what, Mendelian inheritance?) with information he would not have gained by any other legitimate process? Is that your defense of PZ Myers? That pandasthumb "legitimately" enticed and enabled him to be disruptive?Charles_{March 29, 2008
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The scheduled time and call-in number were emailed to “media partners”, one of whom apparantly disclosed the information to Myers
Actually the mail was send to the crew of pandasthumb which the producers of EXPELLED seemingly judged as a media partner.sparc_{March 29, 2008
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Portishead: then they arrange a “secure” Q&A where you can pick up the entry code just by listening in early! The competence of these guys is questionable, to say the least. They used the same conference call facilities as do thousands of companies througout the US, daily. The scheduled time and call-in number were emailed to "media partners", one of whom apparantly disclosed the information to Myers who willfully and with malice aforethought (based on results) misrepresented himself to the conf call moderator to gain access. You could, for example, claim to be a stock analyst and disrupt any of hundreds of similar conf calls daily. The competance of Mathis et. al. should be judged by the content of their film and their lawful commonplace business practices, not the erratic misbehavior of their critics, critics who make it a point to be uncivilly disruptive. Do you question the competance of logging operations by the tresspassing tree-sitters? Should every landowner put up impassable fences in lieu of "no tresspasing" signs. Since when does the willfulness of the violator legitimize their violation?Charles_{March 29, 2008
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If the events of the past few days say that Mathis isn't exactly James Bond, then they also say that PZ Myers demonstrates his personal credibility by happily displaying his arrogance. It doesn't matter though, everything is relative right? He can always retreat to his Internet persona and sell some more oil.Upright BiPed_{March 29, 2008
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PZ said they were "unprofessional" to let him sneak in the way he did. Parody is all the more entertaining when it's someone doing it to himself.TomG_{March 29, 2008
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Portishead So you're basically saying that Mathis is stupid for trusting that biology professors will conduct themselves in a courteous professional manner? Do you call rape victims stupid for putting themselves in a vulnerable position too? Personally I blame the criminal, not the victim, for the crime. DaveScot_{March 29, 2008
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