Uncommon Descent Serving The Intelligent Design Community

Peer-Reviewed Stealth ID Classic : The Anthropic Cosmological Principle (1987)

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Frank Tipler co-authored a book with John Barrow entitled The Anthropic Cosmological Principle which was a peer-reviewed book published by Oxford University in 1987.

The principle thesis:

Intelligent information-processing must come into existence in the Universe, and, once it comes into existence, it will never die out.

They derive the thesis from Schrodinger’s equation
Schrodinger's Equation

From Schrodinger’s equation they derive the following formula:

Universal Wave Function

which predicts, through physical first principles alone, at the end of time that there must be an Intelligent Entity that is conscious, all-powerful, all-knowing, non-material, eternal. By all counts, such an entity would properly be called, “God”.

Tipler says in Dembski’s book Uncommon Dissent

(the chapter is available for free at ISCID at the link Tipler on Peer Review):

A recent poll of the members of the National Academy of Sciences, published in Scientific American, indicated that more than ninety percent are atheists. These men and women have built their entire worldview on atheism. They would be exceedingly reluctant to admit that any result of science could be valid if it even suggested that God could exist.

I discovered this the hard way when I published my book The Physics of Immortality. The entire book is devoted to describing what the known laws of physics predict the far future of the universe will be like. Not once in the entire book do I use anything but the known physical laws, the laws of physics that are in all the textbooks, and which agree with all experiments conducted to date. Unfortunately, in the book I gave reasons for believing that the final state of the universe—a state outside of space and time, and not material—should be identified with the Judeo-Christian God. (It would take a book to explain why!) My scientific colleagues, atheists to a man, were outraged. Even though the theory of the final state of the universe involved only known physics, my fellow physicists refused even to discuss the theory. If the known laws of physics imply that God exists, then in their opinion, this can only mean that the laws of physics have to be wrong. This past September, at a conference held at Windsor Castle, I asked the well known cosmologist Paul Davies what he thought of my theory. He replied that he could find nothing wrong with it mathematically, but he asked what justified my assumption that the known laws of physics were correct. At the same conference, the famous physicist Freeman Dyson refused to discuss my theory—period. I would not encounter such refusals if I had not chosen to point out my theory’s theological implications.

….
As a physicist, I am aware that quantum mechanics, the central theory of modern physics, is even more deterministic that was the classical mechanics of which Darwin was aware. More than this, quantum mechanics is actually teleological, though physicists don’t use this loaded word (we call it “unitarity” instead of “teleology”). That is, quantum mechanics says that it is completely correct to say that the universe’s evolution is determined not by how it started in the Big Bang, but by the final state of the universe. Every stage of universal history, including every stage of biological and human history, is determined by the ultimate goal of the universe. And if I am correct that the universal final state is indeed God, then every stage of universal history, in particular every mutation that has ever occurred, or ever will occur in any living being, is determined by the action of God.

Though I do not agree with all of Tipler’s ideas (forgive me Frank), the derivation from the Schrodinger equation above has been found reasonable by various scholars. And certainly having someone of John Barrow’s reputation as the principle co-author of the book where the derivation was originally given certainly lends a degree of respectability to the idea.

A reasonable possibility from physical laws alone is that ID has a Designer available at the cosmological scale. ID cannot answer whether the Designer of the cosmos is also directly the author of life. For example, we can say Rachmaninoff composed the famous Rachmaninoff 2nd Concerto. If God made Rachmaninoff’s ancestors, does this mean we can say God designed the Rachmaninoff 2nd? In like manner, we can’t be too quick to say God is the direct author of life even though the laws of physics may predict His existence. ID can only suggest that something is designed. However knowing, through the laws of physics, that God may exist, it certainly makes the design inference a little more palatable.

Salvador Cordova

Comments
Oops, Prokofievjacktone
February 23, 2006
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Saxe, Gotta put my 2 cents in on classical music for the kids. You can hardly get any better than Prokokiev's "Peter and the Wolf". There are videos out there that have the the story interspersed with clips of the orchestra playing. Great stuff. (another musician-gone-engineer)jacktone
February 23, 2006
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"...for us physicists believe the separation between past, present, and future is only an illusion, although a convincing one." --Albert Einsteinscordova
February 23, 2006
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As the great Nobel physcist Bohr said, "t if you aren't confused by quantum physics then you haven't really understood it." Hi Mentok, I appreciate your point of view. However, we have been able to confirm the future affects the past experimentally. Here is s description of the experiments involved: http://www.fortunecity.com/emachines/e11/86/qphil.html From a purely operational standpoint (as in when money counts) the problem of the future affecting the past is being factored into the design of various nano-molecular computing devices. These devices are so tiny that it is conceivable a current computation may be affected by a future event. When I had done some work with a nano-molecular research team, one of the researchers was exploring this problem, the problem of a "double-slit-delayed-choice" effect on a nano-molecular computation. We had to ensure the archticture prevented or impeded these kinds of undesirable effects. Ironically, this quantum wierdness is actually desirable for the next generation of quantum computers. I think the following artilce will be very helpful: http://www.goertzel.org/benzine/QuantumComputingArticle.htm regards, Salvador Cordovascordova
February 23, 2006
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I'm sorry scordova but I can't get past the idea of future events influencing the past. A future event does not exist in the present, therefore it cannot influence anything because it doesn't exist. A plan for a future event can affect the present, but the past is gone forever and the future has yet to happen. I do not know how you can resolve this unless you and your friends are advocating time travel. Or am I mistaking what you mean to say? I don't accept Tiplers (and De Chardins) theories about the "Omega Point" i.e the universal apotheosis theory, but I do appreciate a similar line of thought. From my understanding "God" became "God" through a very long process of becoming or evolving to an apotheosis, but it happened a very long time ago, before the universe as we know it existed. The universe we live in is what came about after that period of cosmic evolution due to the intellectual effort of "God". My experience is that we live in a virtual reality of sorts. Everything we experience is very similar to what you would experience in a computer controlled virtual reality. All matter/energy manifests in a very similar way to how pixels in a VR game create an illusion of reality. The computer controls the pixels which are all essentially the same thing. Through the arrangement of the same thing in a very complicated fashion at a minute level the computer can shape any world the user can imagine. 1's and 0's take on the appearance of people, places, and things. In our universe quantum particles are like pixels in a unviversal computer mtarix, but instead of the "brain" of the computer being in a set location like a hard drive and processor, the universal computer's brain is everywhere, the pixels or quantum particles are part of the brain. The pixels or quantum particles exist within a sub quantum unified field (posessing consciousness, intellect, and ability to control everything within it)which exists in many dimensions which we cannot perceive. Imagine if you were born in a virtual reality holodeck and had no knowledge of computers and virtual reality technology, you would be unable to figure out how the world you live in came into existence because all you would have access to would be the virtual reality dimension. The hardware and software that controls the virtual reality exists in dimensions which are differnt then the virtual reality dimension. So when we try to figure out how the universe works based on nothing more then what we can see with our eyes or experiment with, we will be unable to reach an accurate depiction. There are too many hidden variables. You may see the souffle, but if you've never seen a kitchen, fire, utensils, or food of any type, any theory you could come up with about the origins of the souffle would be based on a lack of experience with the whole concept of cooking food.mentok
February 23, 2006
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also scordova, "By way of extension, because we see the universe, we are detecting that some agency is collapsing wave functions in the future." this is not necessarily true---and what i mean by speculative.physicist
February 23, 2006
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you're welcome, and I think it is definitely interesting to examine these issues. but i would caution that the conclusions seem highly speculative to me...and there is a lot more work to be done on understanding wavefunctions of the universe before inferring ID and god, to put it mildly!physicist
February 23, 2006
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Physicist: "It’s an interesting idea, but I am unconvinced…" Thank you for your informative input. My aim is to show that the idea is at least reasonable from known physical laws alone. If we knew for a fact it were absolutely true, we would no longer be exploring the issue theoretically. It demonstrates that ID at the cosmological scale (and thus implicity at the biological scale ) is at least plausible from interpretations of existing physical theories with no reference to any sort of religious text.scordova
February 23, 2006
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danb asked: "While Schrödinger’s theory describes how a wave function collapse looks like from outside the wave function, it does not say what observant entities see INSIDE of the wave function. How would we know wether or not the wave function that encapsulates us has collapsed or not? Do Barrow and Tipler treat this conundrum? " In quantum cryptography, we can detect the effect of an intelligent intrusion into a crytographic system because someone's intelligent choice has triggered a collapse. See: http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~jford/crypto.html By way of extension, because we see the universe, we are detecting that some agency is collapsing wave functions in the future. We are being created through the Ultimate Observer's act of knowing (measurement) in the future. In other words, your question is approaching QM classically (where the past affects the future). But the Quantum idea is the reverse: the future affects the past. The fact we exist is evidence our wave functions are being observed at the end of time and have not yet collapsed in the present. The past and present exist because of what will happen in the future. If our wave functions were already fully collapsed, the world would be at an end. So to answer your question, observant entities (you and I and everyone) encapsualted inside the Universal wave function would not even exist to make observations in the present world were it not for the Ultimate Observer in the future peering back into time. In a way, our wave functions have collapsed, but in the future. The history of the universe is fixed by a future event. This rather shocking inference was borne out by experiments in the 1970 with Wheeler's double-slit-delayed-choice experiment which happened actually in Tipler's school, the University of Maryland. We were able to demonstrate the future affects the past in small quantum systems. More amazingly, one could even somewhat re-write the past (quantum erasure experiments) and thus make something anew. If a future observation affects a small quantum system, by way of extension, all the universe must be affected by a future observation. Barrow and Tipler agrues that through unified guage theory, all features of the universe (not just position and momentum but even physical constants and properties of matter, etc.) arrive through an Ultimate Observation (quantum measurment) at the end of time. Again, it is basically Thomas Aquinas idea of a "first cause" jazzed up into the language of modern physics where things are driven by an "ultimate cause". The only difference is Aquinas had a philosophical musing, and Barrow and Tipler have the laws of modern physics to make their case. They've given Aquinas' argument some serious teeth through quantum mechanics.scordova
February 23, 2006
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It's an interesting idea, but I am unconvinced... For one thing, there are some mathematical problems with the wavefunction of the universe (though there has been some recent progress, and I think it will be an important concept in quantum gravity). So all considerations of god aside, it is not really known how to make this concept work properly yet. Secondly, it is not clear to me that the copenhagen interpretation will work for a wavefunction of the universe. the intuition is based on classical measuring devices observing otherwise isolated quantum systems, but the modern interpretation of measurement and wavefunction collapse is that it is an artifact of treating the measuring device classically. So i think the consensus is that if you consider a wavefunction of the universe there is no need for a separate observation process. These are difficult physical and conceptual issues which we can debate---I certainly don't have all the answers. What I find much less debatable is the inference that a putative observer of the wavefunction of the universe would have the following qualities: 1. Conscious 2. Intelligent 3. Non-Material 4. All Powerful 5. All Knowing 6. Eternal I can't really find any justification for asserting these qualities---they seem to me more the qualities the author *wants* such an observer to have.physicist
February 23, 2006
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Saxe you better start with Bach and Mozart. Liszt, Brahms and Rachmaninoff for two and four years old? Guys give girls some time to evolve :-)Srdjan
February 23, 2006
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GilDodgen wrote: "Isn’t it amazing how random mutation and natural selection produced all the wonderful musical artistry of the great composers, not to mention the musicians who play this stuff and the people who invented and perfected the art of creating musical instruments? Man, that RM+NS stuff is really cool!" You said it, Gil. That's why Darwin's theory is so widely considered to be one of the greatest ideas in man's history. It brings to mind the famous, beautiful closing passage of the Origin of Species: "There is grandeur in this view of life, with its several powers, having been originally breathed into a few forms or into one; and that, whilst this planet has gone cycling on according to the fixed law of gravity, from so simple a beginning endless forms most beautiful and most wonderful have been, and are being, evolved."valerie
February 22, 2006
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Music is a form of specified complexity. Good music is highly teleological. Here is some specified complexity by Franz Lizst. It was a collection of specified complexity which he designed during his courtship with Princess Carolyn of Russia. It is a lullaby fit for a princess.

I used the piece as my college entrance audition several years ago. My recording of the piece can be downloaded if you right click over the link and do a "save target" to capture the entire Mp3:
Liebestraum in A-flat Major

Another favorite is Rachmaninoff's 18th Variation from Rhapsody on a Theme of Paganini. You can get a 1-minute sample from Amazon:

Rachmaninoff Samples

scordova
February 22, 2006
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[Off Topic] Dear Saxe, Isn't it amazing how random mutation and natural selection produced all the wonderful musical artistry of the great composers, not to mention the musicians who play this stuff and the people who invented and perfected the art of creating musical instruments? Man, that RM+NS stuff is really cool! :-) I am particularly fond of the romantic era, and especially the genre of the concerto, which combines the personality of a solo instrument with the richness of an orchestra. The repertoire is so vast, but I would recommend the violin concerti of Beethoven, Brahms, Mendelssohn and Tchaikovsky, and the Emperor (fifth) piano concerto of Beethoven, the second piano concerto of Brahms, the first piano concerto of Tchaikovsky and the second piano concerto of Rachmaninoff. This music is transcendent. I have recorded three solo piano albums of music by Chopin, Liszt, Rachmaninoff and Gershwin which I am happy to give away for free.GilDodgen
February 22, 2006
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Gil, A little off topic, but I'd like to expose my two and four year old girls to some classical music. What would you recommend? Saxesaxe17
February 22, 2006
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While Schrödinger's theory describes how a wave function collapse looks like from outside the wave function, it does not say what observant entities see INSIDE of the wave function. How would we know wether or not the wave function that encapsulates us has collapsed or not? Do Barrow and Tipler treat this conundrum?danb
February 22, 2006
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Tipler: "quantum mechanics says that it is completely correct to say that the universe’s evolution is determined not by how it started in the Big Bang, but by the final state of the universe. Every stage of universal history, including every stage of biological and human history, is determined by the ultimate goal of the universe." This agrees with the observation that evolutionary algorithms must be given a purpose in order to achieve anything creative.j
February 22, 2006
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Here is a crude 2-page essay elaborating on Barrow and Tipler's derivation. I hope it shows something of the physical experiments and theory involved.

God in the Equations

Salvador

scordova
February 22, 2006
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Hey Gil,

You're a cool guy too. I wanted to be a professional musician. Piano was my major instrument in college before I graduated as an electrical engineer with a minor in music.

Hey, great minds think alike. :-)

I wonder if Bill Dembski plays the piano as well?

Salvador

scordova
February 22, 2006
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Hey, Salvador is a cool guy! Anyone who likes Rachmaninoff can't be all bad. It was Rachmaninoff, and the Second Concerto in particular, that inspired me in the seventh grade to pursue the piano as a career. It would be four more years before I would perform the Rach 2, but that inspired me to major in music. Was this all front-loaded?GilDodgen
February 22, 2006
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Barrow and Tipler's ideas were actually forseen 12 years before their book by Physicist FJ Belinfante in his book Measurements and time reversal in objective quantum theory
We thus see how quantum theory requires the existence of God. Of course, it does not ascribe to God defined in this way any of the specific additional qualities that the various existing religious doctrines ascribed to God. Acceptance of such doctrines is a matter of faith and belief. If elementary systems do not “possess" quantitatively determinate properties, apparently God determines these properties as we measure them. We also observe the fact, unexplainable but experimentally well established, that God in His decisions about the outcomes of our experiments shows habits so regular that we can express them in the form of statistical laws of nature. This apparent determinism in macroscopic nature has hidden God and His personal influence on the universe from the eyes of many outstanding scientists. F.J. Belinfante
scordova
February 22, 2006
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"O" stands for Observations. The exact derivation is on page 471, but one does not really need all the details of the math. If one recalls the idea which Thomas Aquinas offered of a "First Cause", then one might simply say Barrow and Tipler phrase the idea in terms of the laws of physics for an "Ultimate Cause".

The equation reflects the net effect of all the quantum systems and observations of those quantum systems resulting in the universe being one massive quantum system. That massive quantum system must be "Observed" by the Ultimate Observer (God) for the physical world to come into being. It is interestng, they shied away from using the term God in their 1987 book, but chose the term "Ultimate Observer" which is strictly speaking, correct. It was not until 1996 that Tipler equated the Ultimate Observer with God. That's when the idea really raised some ire!

scordova
February 22, 2006
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SC - What does O stand for in that final formula? Thanks.ThePolynomial
February 22, 2006
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