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Psychologist offers a drive-by psychiatric diagnosis of ID guys

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<em>Teapot</em> Cobalt Blue From Jeremy P. Shapiro, a psychologist at Case Western Reserve University, at Raw Story:

Yet many science deniers do cite empirical evidence. The problem is that they do so in invalid, misleading ways. Psychological research illuminates these ways.

As a psychotherapist, I see a striking parallel between a type of thinking involved in many mental health disturbances and the reasoning behind science denial. As I explain in my book “Psychotherapeutic Diagrams,” dichotomous thinking, also called black-and-white and all-or-none thinking, is a factor in depression, anxiety, aggression and, especially, borderline personality disorder.

This same type of thinking can be seen among creationists. They seem to misinterpret any limitation or flux in evolutionary theory to mean that the validity of this body of research is fundamentally in doubt. For example, the biologist James Shapiro (no relation) discovered a cellular mechanism of genomic change that Darwin did not know about. Shapiro views his research as adding to evolutionary theory, not upending it. Nonetheless, his discovery and others like it, refracted through the lens of dichotomous thinking, result in articles with titles like, “Scientists Confirm: Darwinism Is Broken” by Paul Nelson and David Klinghoffer of the Discovery Institute, which promotes the theory of “intelligent design.” Shapiro insists that his research provides no support for intelligent design, but proponents of this pseudoscience repeatedly cite his work as if it does.More.

Dr. Jeremy Shapiro apparently does not realize that the second rule of medicine* is, “First, who’s the patient?” One does not diagnose a crowd of people one has never met, whose personal histories one does not know.

He is also obviously unfamiliar with the mass of material coming back that confirms evolution as a history but does not confirm the standard, classic Darwinian interpretation thereof. There would be many fewer dissenters otherwise.

But then, why let inconvenient facts get in the way of a good theory? Tenured Darwinians defend their theory regardless. Those who would defend them do the same, it seems.

Jeremy Shapiro assumes that James Shapiro’s work cannot provide support for a view that Shapiro himseslf does not endorse. That’s an error. Such situations are quite common because no one “owns” basic facts.

My diagnosis of a crowd of people who might vaguely remind one of  Jeremy Shapiro: Those who cannot deal with a fact base often build an elaborate drama around why it doesn’t really exist or else doesn’t mean what it means, conscripting key players into unfamiliar roles and generalizing about the rest.

The item linked above was originally published at The Conversation.

Note 1: The first rule of medicine is, “First, do no harm.” primum non nocere

Note 2:Re RawStory’s boast on a banner at the page: “Don’t let Silicon Valley control what you see. Get more stories like this in your inbox, every day.” Relax, guys. In this case, I probably wouldn’t know the difference between you and SV. I represent the muffled voice of careful, personal observation over decades. You others can fight it out among yourselves.

See also: Some thoughts on James Shapiro’s valuable work: Natural genetic engineering? Natural popcorn? Or something more important?

Comments
AK, more than enough has been said. I am simply pointing out the core problem with a radically relativist and/or subjectivist scheme, starting with its self-referentiality and linked regress of "caves." I gotta go now, dealing with three layers of RW headaches. KFkairosfocus
May 14, 2018
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Kairosfocus,
may well be the operative words.
So, you obviously don't have an answer to my question. Fair enough.Allan Keith
May 14, 2018
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AK:
I don’t see
may well be the operative words. KFkairosfocus
May 14, 2018
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Kairosfocus,
AK, you obviously wish to drag off on tangents. I simply note that extramarital and pre-marital sexual behaviour tends to undermine marriage.
Who said anything about extra-marital sex? Of course extra-marital sex undermines marriage. Lying to your wife tends to do that. We were talking about pre-marital sex. Whether or not there is a link between this and the risk of divorce is inconclusive.
But then, many do not see the values involved as significant, given the general undermining of morality in our time.
I don't see any undermining of morals in our time. The only thing that societal changes have done is undermine your opinion of what morals should be. So the big question is, what makes your morals better or more important than mine?Allan Keith
May 14, 2018
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AK, you obviously wish to drag off on tangents. I simply note that extramarital and pre-marital sexual behaviour tends to undermine marriage. But then, many do not see the values involved as significant, given the general undermining of morality in our time. KFkairosfocus
May 14, 2018
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Kairosfocus,
Relative to sky-high rates of illegitimacy, contraceptives may offer some reduction in certain statistics.
There is no "may" about it. Sex education and unrestricted access to contraceptives has a significant impact on abortion rates.
Relative to family and individual stability and soundness, not so much.
Do you have the confirmed data to back that up? Because these are the numbers that I found for divorce rates in the US: Jews 30% Born-again Christians 27% Other Christians 24% Atheists, Agnostics 21% I found it interesting that Atheists and agnostics have a lower divorce rate than religious people.
Relative to benumbing the conscience, breaking the heart and rendering especially girls into far less than they could and should be, we are failing the primary challenge.
Yet women have never had more opportunity than they do today. Their numbers in upper management are increasing, their numbers in science, engineering and medicine are increasing, they now have job protection rights for maternity leave. In short, they have choices now that they have never had in the past. I don't see how you can claim that the path society is taking is making girls less than what they can be. The facts simply do not support your claim. Maybe it would be clearer if you could tell us what your idea of a girl being "all they can be" means.
Relative, to the damaging effects on marriages of premarital sexual activities, not so much.
Please refer to the divorce statistics above.
Relative, to addressing the primary question on enabling the ongoing worst holocaust in history: am I not a man/woman and a brother/sister, even less so. Duly noted. KF
Yet you are not prepared to enable people with the tools to prevent the pregnancy in the first place. Your stance just does not make any logical sense. And is not supported by any data.
Just maybe, it would help you to draw fewer loaded inferences to learn that my mom worked with the bureau in my homeland that provided family life education as part of health education, including her being lead author of contraceptive promotion literature. I simply refuse to ignore the root issues.
Good for your mom. She sounds like a woman you should be very proud of.Allan Keith
May 14, 2018
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JDK, you have enough of an answer. Obviously, my mother had to manage a bad situation, but my point is that we need to move to a good one, which requires reform. Availability of contraceptives is not in itself an evil [depending on the contraceptive, e.g. some cause diseases and some in effect induce a quiet abortion] but that should not become an excuse to turn something so profound as our sexuality, family life and growing individuality into chaos and further harm or even ruin to our civilisation. In particular, a central issue is the civilising of each generation of boys as they become men, so that they do not bring ruin. That requires stable families and fatherhood. Which what is going on increasingly, clearly undermines. KFkairosfocus
May 14, 2018
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Not again!!! Good for your mother, but why won't you answer a simple question about your own beliefs rather than quoting, for the 4th time, something you wrote about the dire state of the world?jdk
May 13, 2018
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JDK, note the just above also. Enough on the tactic of successive tangents. I again highlight:
there is another relevant sense of delusion, tied to ideologies, worldviews and cultural agendas that may be entrenched. In effect, if the light in you is darkness, how great is your darkness. Such grand, Plato’s Cave delusion leads to a life or an institution or a community increasingly out of touch with and resistant to reality: because I tell the truth you are unable to acknowledge the things I say. For instance, evolutionary materialism radically undermines responsible rational freedom and through its inherent amorality and radical relativisation of morals, knowledge, logic and more it injects inescapable, deep self-referential incoherence. This destabilises our whole civilisation and is leading to ever-increasing disconnect from reality. In turn that triggers institutionalised cognitive dissonance and defences that fend off corrective truth. Where, because of that might and manipulation make ‘right’ ‘rights’ ‘truth’ ‘knowledge’ ‘logic’ ‘science’ and much more, we have many fellow-travellers who end up enabling. And, he who would dare say stop, stop, danger seems to be an uncouth fool, standing there in the wilderness in a silly camel’s hair coat and saying what does not carry the imprimatur of today’s new magisterium. If we do not wake up from such grand delusion-driven marches of folly, the crumbling cliff-edge underfoot may well give way without further warning. With nukes in play, God help us.
You have inadvertently provided an illustration of these concerns over the past day or so. And of course, such a context readily explains the sort of abuse of professional status to project tendentious diagnoses to ID supporters, while refusing to address cogently the evidence that abundantly warrants inference to design on FSCO/I as sign that we see in the OP. KFkairosfocus
May 13, 2018
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AK, again, you refuse to address first things first, a diagnostic sign. It may be advisable for you to note baselines, too, before assuming that attempted technological solutions to moral and familial problems work. Relative to sky-high rates of illegitimacy, contraceptives may offer some reduction in certain statistics. Relative to family and individual stability and soundness, not so much. Relative to benumbing the conscience, breaking the heart and rendering especially girls into far less than they could and should be, we are failing the primary challenge. Relative, to the damaging effects on marriages of premarital sexual activities, not so much. Relative, to addressing the primary question on enabling the ongoing worst holocaust in history: am I not a man/woman and a brother/sister, even less so. Duly noted. KF PS: Just maybe, it would help you to draw fewer loaded inferences to learn that my mom worked with the bureau in my homeland that provided family life education as part of health education, including her being lead author of contraceptive promotion literature. I simply refuse to ignore the root issues.kairosfocus
May 13, 2018
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KF, so can I take this as you being opposed to comprehensive sex education at an early age? And being opposed to unrestricted access to contraceptives? The two things that have a proven track record of reducing unwanted pregnancies and abortion. You can vent and fume and clutch pearls all you want about sexualization of children and normalizing sex before marriage, but teens have always had sex and will always have sex. Nothing you say will change this so none of your righteous indignation will change the fact that sex for pleasure, contraceptives and abortions are here to stay. As they have been for all of recorded history. Not realizing this, and pretending that we can somehow change this, is the height of delusional thinking. What we can do is make sure that our kids are properly equipped to deal with these realities. Something, obviously, you don’t want to allow them. I had sex as a teen. I had sex with more than one woman before I was married. And I had sex with my wife before we were married. Many times. And in many different positions. And I don’t regret any of this. Why should I as long as it was mutually consensual and mutually respectful? And, I might add, that there was never an abortion involved because we had good sex education and ready access to contraceptives.Allan Keith
May 13, 2018
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And P.S., just because something is secondary doesn't mean it's important. Are you in favor of easy access to contraceptives, at least for married couples?jdk
May 13, 2018
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For people having sex (which many people do) and not wanting to get pregnant (which is often reasonable), access to contraceptives is not a "secondary issue." Also, I doubt that most loving married couples, just to focus on them, wanting to have some control over when they have children, are likely to think of their sexual relationship as "a body contact sport."jdk
May 13, 2018
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AK & JDK, again, it comes down to the motto: am I not a man/woman and a brother/sister? The answer is self-evident, given what we all once were. Those who promote or enable holocaust of living posterity simply cannot afford to let us focus on that question. Which speaks for itself. KF PS: Secondary issues are secondary. The issue is dehumanising posterity in the womb vs facing what we have become as a civilisation. And hypersexualising -- and too often, desensitising or grooming -- young children while undermining their consciences will not solve the core problem. Nor will imagining that we are dealing with protective equipment for a body contact sport.kairosfocus
May 13, 2018
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I think that to have a productive discussion we have to see where people stand on the issues. I will start: 1) I believe that we should allow abortion on demand in the first three months. 2) I believe that we should require comprehensive and non Judgmental sex education starting at an early age. 3) I believe that contraceptives should be made available with no restrictions other than factual health based information. We already know where KF stands on number one. But I would be interested in his opinion on two and three. And why.Allan Keith
May 13, 2018
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We know you feel that way, kf. Millions of people don't. What can you do to solve the problem from your perspective? Do you have any practical ideas that people might implement? That is the question. You can't declare war against everyone that is OK with abortions under current law, as we did with Germany. So what do you do other than express your outrage?jdk
May 13, 2018
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PS: Kindly, also stop setting up and knocking over strawmen. I have said, hitherto, nil about abortion protests. We have a much bigger, prior problem in hand. Let me borrow the motto of the antislavery society, coming from Paul's epistle to Philemon: am I not a man and a brother? Or, am I not a woman and a sister? Posterity in the womb has a right to the same true answer: yes, yes. Immediately, the right to life obtains and those who would rob of recognition of fundamental humanity in order to advance an agenda of the mass death of innocents as a "solution" to problems are irretrievably exposed. Game over.kairosfocus
May 13, 2018
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AK & JDK, I repeat. We have institutionalised mass slaughter of our living posterity under false colour of law and rights. When, the heart of the matter is that a million times per WEEK, globally, living posterity is deliberately robbed of the first, foundational right: life. To sustain such, honourable professions, law, law enforcement, courts, parliaments, the media and more have been systematically corrupted. Over 40+ years, the cumulative toll has been 800+ million, likely a LOT more. This is the worst holocaust in history, exceeding even the toll of Communist regimes. If you think that trying to rescue who one can from murder in the 1940's is the same as comforting oneself with the notion of slowing the rate of a holocaust, something is deeply wrong -- especially as, we are not dealing with the Gestapo and SS etc. The above therefore speaks for itself, on the sort of utter breakdown of our civilisation that is now in progress. KFkairosfocus
May 13, 2018
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KairosFocus,
AK & JDK: One does not seek to “reduce [the rate of]” a holocaust.
Israel has named over 24,000 people as “Righteos Among the Nations” for attempting to do just that. It is hypocritical to support and condone people who protests at the doors of abortion clinics with no evidence that it reduces abortions, yet refuse to adopt practices that have a proven track record of significantly reducing the rate of abortion.Allan Keith
May 13, 2018
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Hmmm. I don't think there was anything inadvertent about what I "revealed". I said what I meant, and meant what I said, as they say. From a practical point of view, abortions take place throughout the world by people who don't agree with you about that being totally morally unacceptable. I know your preference would be for everyone to consider it morally unacceptable to have an abortion, but that is not the case. So do you have any ideas about how to change their attitudes? And even if you, or other like-minded people, might have some ideas about that, what are the chances you can have a significant impact? Therefore, why not try to reduce the number of abortions through some practical means that have been shown to make a difference? In fact, it is likely, or at least possible, that through education and empowerment of women, you might make some progress in changing people's attitudes about the morality of abortions. Also, I think there are some significant differences between the German holocaust and the world-wide use of abortion. In the German holocaust, a centralized political entity was responsible, and we were able to bring the holocaust to an end through physical force. Abortions are extremely decentralized, with millions of women (in conjunction with men, sometimes), making the decision to have an abortion. Thus for those of you consider abortion as morally evil as the German holocaust, there is no centralized body to attack with military or other violent means. Because of these differences, thinking about ways to solve the problem for people like you perhaps should include ways to reduce the number of abortions as you work on the larger (and likely less succesful) goal of changing attitudes on a large scale.jdk
May 13, 2018
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AK & JDK: One does not seek to "reduce [the rate of]" a holocaust. That you think and argue in such terms is inadvertently very revealing. KFkairosfocus
May 13, 2018
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Very important point by AK. If one wants to reduce abortion, one should support both the things Allan mentions.jdk
May 13, 2018
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Your own unresponsiveness to mass slaughter of the most innocent at a current rate of a million per week per Guttmacher-
I take comfort in the fact that the abortion rates in states and countries that have abortion on demand, comprehensive early sex education and unrestricted access to contraceptives are the lowest they have been since abortion was legalized, per Guttmacher.Allan Keith
May 13, 2018
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AK, about 3/4's of Americans have a basic Christian affinity sufficient to show up in surveys. That does not prevent a very large fraction from being deluded about a massive evil that is backed up by every means of manipulation and intimidation imaginable, multiplied by entrenched corruption of culture-shaping institutions. Where, ever so many of said institutions reflect a reversed demographic, where easily 2/3 - 9/10 or more of leadership will be radically secularist humanists, evolutionary materialist scientism advocates or activists and/or enabling fellow travellers. It is manifest that our civilisation is in drastic need of repentance, renewal and reformation, and the fact of ongoing holocaust is the most glaring sign of that circumstance. Your own unresponsiveness to mass slaughter of the most innocent at a current rate of a million per week per Guttmacher-UN figures, speaks sad volumes. Life, sir, is the first right, without which there are no other rights. KFkairosfocus
May 13, 2018
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Kairusfocus,
AK & JDK (Attn BA 77), I draw attention to this perspective, noting how as a civilisation we have managed to sustain a holocaust of 800+ millions of our living posterity over the past 40+ years, currently rising at another million per week, while the dominant institutions manage to make it seem to be an issue of a right to “choose” . . . neatly omitting, choose to kill. That makes the following highly relevant as a perspective on delusion:
I was wondering how KF was going to bring abortion into a discussion about atheists being delusional. Ahh, abortions are the result of being delusional. Given that 69% of Americans are Christian, many of them getting abortions, I guess us atheists aren’t alone in the delusional department. At least we will have plenty of help in cutting through that branch.Allan Keith
May 12, 2018
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PS: Let me make one allusion explicit:
Ath [in The Laws, Bk X 2,350+ ya]. . . .[The avant garde philosophers and poets, c. 360 BC] say that fire and water, and earth and air [i.e the classical "material" elements of the cosmos], all exist by nature and chance, and none of them by art . . . [such that] all that is in the heaven, as well as animals and all plants, and all the seasons come from these elements, not by the action of mind, as they say, or of any God, or from art, but as I was saying, by nature and chance only [ --> that is, evolutionary materialism is ancient and would trace all things to blind chance and mechanical necessity] . . . . [Thus, they hold] that the principles of justice have no existence at all in nature, but that mankind are always disputing about them and altering them; and that the alterations which are made by art and by law have no basis in nature, but are of authority for the moment and at the time at which they are made.-
[ --> Relativism, too, is not new; complete with its radical amorality rooted in a worldview that has no foundational IS that can ground OUGHT, leading to an effectively arbitrary foundation only for morality, ethics and law: accident of personal preference, the ebbs and flows of power politics, accidents of history and and the shifting sands of manipulated community opinion driven by "winds and waves of doctrine and the cunning craftiness of men in their deceitful scheming . . . " cf a video on Plato's parable of the cave; from the perspective of pondering who set up the manipulative shadow-shows, why.]
These, my friends, are the sayings of wise men, poets and prose writers, which find a way into the minds of youth. They are told by them that the highest right is might,
[ --> Evolutionary materialism -- having no IS that can properly ground OUGHT -- leads to the promotion of amorality on which the only basis for "OUGHT" is seen to be might (and manipulation: might in "spin") . . . ]
and in this way the young fall into impieties, under the idea that the Gods are not such as the law bids them imagine; and hence arise factions [ --> Evolutionary materialism-motivated amorality "naturally" leads to continual contentions and power struggles influenced by that amorality at the hands of ruthless power hungry nihilistic agendas], these philosophers inviting them to lead a true life according to nature, that is,to live in real dominion over others [ --> such amoral and/or nihilistic factions, if they gain power, "naturally" tend towards ruthless abuse and arbitrariness . . . they have not learned the habits nor accepted the principles of mutual respect, justice, fairness and keeping the civil peace of justice, so they will want to deceive, manipulate and crush -- as the consistent history of radical revolutions over the past 250 years so plainly shows again and again], and not in legal subjection to them [--> nihilistic will to power not the spirit of justice and lawfulness].
And now, let us notice an echo in the all-time most famous sermon, once given on a mountain in Galilee:
Matt 6:22 “The eye is the lamp of the body; so if your eye is clear [spiritually perceptive], your whole body will be full of light [benefiting from God’s precepts]. 23 But if your eye is bad [spiritually blind], your whole body will be full of darkness [devoid of God’s precepts]. So if the [very] light inside you [your inner self, your heart, your conscience] is darkness, how great and terrible is that darkness! [AMP]
kairosfocus
May 12, 2018
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JDK, it is perhaps predictable that rather than speak to a substantial issue you dragged a red herring across the track. Sadly, this only underscores the force of the point:
there is another relevant sense of delusion, tied to ideologies, worldviews and cultural agendas that may be entrenched. In effect, if the light in you is darkness, how great is your darkness. Such grand, Plato’s Cave delusion leads to a life or an institution or a community increasingly out of touch with and resistant to reality: because I tell the truth you are unable to acknowledge the things I say. For instance, evolutionary materialism radically undermines responsible rational freedom and through its inherent amorality and radical relativisation of morals, knowledge, logic and more it injects inescapable, deep self-referential incoherence. This destabilises our whole civilisation and is leading to ever-increasing disconnect from reality. In turn that triggers institutionalised cognitive dissonance and defences that fend off corrective truth. Where, because of that might and manipulation make ‘right’ ‘rights’ ‘truth’ ‘knowledge’ ‘logic’ ‘science’ and much more, we have many fellow-travellers who end up enabling. And, he who would dare say stop, stop, danger seems to be an uncouth fool, standing there in the wilderness in a silly camel’s hair coat and saying what does not carry the imprimatur of today’s new magisterium. If we do not wake up from such grand delusion-driven marches of folly, the crumbling cliff-edge underfoot may well give way without further warning. With nukes in play, God help us.
And BTW, much of the structure of the argument pivots on key allusions to classical sources. KFkairosfocus
May 11, 2018
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I find it somewhat amusing that kf would quote himself, without attribution, from a post just four posts ago.jdk
May 11, 2018
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AK & JDK (Attn BA 77), I draw attention to this perspective, noting how as a civilisation we have managed to sustain a holocaust of 800+ millions of our living posterity over the past 40+ years, currently rising at another million per week, while the dominant institutions manage to make it seem to be an issue of a right to "choose" . . . neatly omitting, choose to kill. That makes the following highly relevant as a perspective on delusion:
there is another relevant sense of delusion, tied to ideologies, worldviews and cultural agendas that may be entrenched. In effect, if the light in you is darkness, how great is your darkness. Such grand, Plato’s Cave delusion leads to a life or an institution or a community increasingly out of touch with and resistant to reality: because I tell the truth you are unable to acknowledge the things I say. For instance, evolutionary materialism radically undermines responsible rational freedom and through its inherent amorality and radical relativisation of morals, knowledge, logic and more it injects inescapable, deep self-referential incoherence. This destabilises our whole civilisation and is leading to ever-increasing disconnect from reality. In turn that triggers institutionalised cognitive dissonance and defences that fend off corrective truth. Where, because of that might and manipulation make ‘right’ ‘rights’ ‘truth’ ‘knowledge’ ‘logic’ ‘science’ and much more, we have many fellow-travellers who end up enabling. And, he who would dare say stop, stop, danger seems to be an uncouth fool, standing there in the wilderness in a silly camel’s hair coat and saying what does not carry the imprimatur of today’s new magisterium. If we do not wake up from such grand delusion-driven marches of folly, the crumbling cliff-edge underfoot may well give way without further warning. With nukes in play, God help us. It seems our psychologist friend needs to look a lot closer to home if he would use his technical knowledge to the good.
Sobering. KFkairosfocus
May 11, 2018
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I precisely defined my use of the word delusion before I used it.
Delusion a mistaken or unfounded opinion or idea https://www.vocabulary.com/dictionary/delusion A delusion is a belief that has no evidence in fact — a complete illusion.
And have amply demonstrated that, using that definition, Atheistic materialism is indeed a delusional worldview, and therefore, those who defend it are, by my precise definition, suffering from delusion. For jdk to dishonestly try to redefine delusional, from what I precisely laid out. and how I have subsequently used it, to include extreme psychosis, is, as is usual with debating internet atheists, extremely disingenuous and dishonest. Moreover, even if I were talking about extreme psychosis, instead of just someone believing a blatantly false picture of reality, a person who held onto atheistic materialism would still be at a significant disadvantage compared to Theism in terms of recovery from that severe mental disorder:
Research on religion and serious mental illness Harold G. Koenig David B. Larson Andrew J. Weaver - 27 February 2006 According to this review, religion plays a largely positive role in mental health; future research on severe mental disorders should include religious factors more directly https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/abs/10.1002/yd.23319988010 Christians respond better to psychiatric treatment than atheists: - July 21, 2013 Excerpt: “Our work suggests that people with a moderate to high level of belief in a higher power do significantly better in short-term psychiatric treatment than those without, regardless of their religious affiliation. Belief was associated with not only improved psychological well-being, but decreases in depression and intention to self-harm,” explained Rosmarin. The study looked at 159 patients, recruited over a one-year period. Each participant was asked to gauge their belief in God as well as their expectations for treatment outcome and emotion regulation, each on a five-point scale. Levels of depression, well being, and self-harm were assessed at the beginning and end of their treatment program. https://uncommondescent.com/religion/if-religious-believers-are-crazy/
bornagain77
May 10, 2018
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PDT
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