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We — yes, we — are the new barbarians, the new nazis.

We who dunit, we who enabled it, we who funded it, we who voted for it (and those who did not bother to vote or speak), we who did not stand up against it, we who tolerated it, we who looked the other way, we who allowed other interests to crowd out the critical issue of integrity in leadership, we who went along with a civilisation setting out on a bloody march of folly. We who occasionally said something but allowed this to drift off the agenda of issues . . . this is the new slave trade, no it is worse, it is direct mass killing of the helpless, in numbers that dwarf the slave trade.

From now on, I will entertain no one who tries to play the slavery-racism card who does not instantly pass the abortion holocaust test.

Every last one of us, me too, is guilty.

God, forgive us.

How can we ever find forgiveness for the bloodguilt that stains not only our hands but our hearts, minds and souls?

We are as the White Rose martyrs indicted Germany: guilty, guilty, guilty.

We should be deeply ashamed at high tech cannibalism in our midst.

Of, the new Dr Mengeles and their blood-guilt tainted research.

How can we hope to profit from the slaughter of the innocents?

This is worse than how can we sweeten our tea with the blood, sweat, toil and tears of the enslaved.

It is our want of shame that is the most deeply telling point of all.

Guilty, guilty, guilty.

Let us seek the grace of penitence and forgiveness in the face of the ghosts of the dead from the global abortion holocaust, easily the worst holocaust of all time.

Guilty, guilty, guilty.

Let us turn back before it is forever too late.

Thank God, someone has forced us to face what we are doing, and where it is heading.

Let us turn back before it is too late.

From our own KF

I would add that no longer will I treat someone who advocates the slaughter of innocents as merely misguided or mistaken. I will treat them as evil and name them as such.

Comments
SLeBrun, I did not prejudge you. I judged you based on your actions after you acted. You were given an opportunity to stand up and defend the unborn. You found a way to avoid taking a stand with a lame, for me, unbelievable, excuse. I judged the person I was shown. If you wish me to judge you differently, show me a better person next time. I have witnessed diversions of all sorts here to justify positions that devalue various individuals. There is a very black and white line that defines a human being's life and value. A human being's life and full value begins at conception. At that instant, a complete human being has begun development. Anyone, except for self-defence (serious and unavoidable risk to the life or health of the mother), who ends that life, willfully, is morally (legality is beside the point) guilty of murder. Anyone, accidentally causing an end to that life, is morality guilty of manslaughter. If you don't like my judgement of you, state what you believe as I just did. State your reasoning. Make your case for why you draw the lines you do and I'll judge based on your words rather than your actions. StephenSteRusJon
August 23, 2015
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Not only is SLeBrun evil; he is an evil coward. I answered his questions with alacrity. I told him where I stand on the issues he raised. I condemned the atrocities he mentioned without reservation. Yet he is too cowardly to take a stand and condemn chopping little girls and boys into pieces and selling the pieces. Instead, he lies about the reason he refuses to answer to cover his cowardice.
You are using a particular ethical, moral topic to segregate people into crude categories . . .
I don't know about "crude," but yes I am trying to separate people into categories. I am trying to separate people into those who favor chopping little girls and boys into pieces and selling the pieces, and those who don't. It is glaringly obvious that if you opposed that practice you would say so. Everyone knows the only reason that you don't is because you in fact do favor the practice, and you know that admitting the truth will destroy your credibility. So you make up lies about why you don't admit the truth. You are an evil little viper SLeBrun; you have spewed your venom. Feel free to crawl back into your hole.Barry Arrington
August 23, 2015
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SLeBrun’s serpentile excuse tells me where he really stands. SLeBrun stands on the side of evil. He could not care less about the needs of the most helpless among us.
Prejudged again. When are you guys going to learn how to carry on a real ethical debate wherein people are not labelled and vilified ahead of time? When are you going to learn how to accept the opinion of others before you decide whether or not you agree with it? If I decide to offer my opinion it will be only after you all decide to NOT tag me with divisive and defamatory labels. I don't mind you disagreeing with me. I do mind you NOT committing to carrying on a real debate when you've already made up your mind what is right and what is wrong. I'm not going to bother when there is no point. And all I've heard from you so far is: our minds are made up, you're wrong and we're right. And you haven't even heard my opinion yet. You've just guessed. But your reaction is: if you don't jump onto our bandwagon you must be against us so, you're evil. You are closed minded and shut down to real debate. So, again, there is no point.SLeBrun
August 23, 2015
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SLeBrun writes: "Secondly, my opinion of procedures deemed legal by a majority of Americans is meaningless since it’s not my country and I have no say." By that logic, he does not feel he has any right to decry any abusive behavior by anyone else on anyone other than himself since all others are in some other jurisdiction than his own. More than that, he perceives no obligation to do so. In other words, "Am I my brother's keeper?" That is the mother of all cop outs. A diversion first used to thwart investigation into the first murderous act of mankind. Further on, SLeBrun writes: "No, I choose NOT to respond to you..." (referring to BA's three challenge questions in #2) There is, in my opinion, no acceptable justification that can fill in the ellipses. Certainly not one as weak as the one given. For a practice, abortion, that has destroyed so many of my brothers, and more so, my sisters, all who decry its nonchalant acceptance should, I think, take any opportunity to let others know they stand in staunch opposition. SLeBrun's serpentile excuse tells me where he really stands. SLeBrun stands on the side of evil. He could not care less about the needs of the most helpless among us. For shame, SLeBrun! StephenSteRusJon
August 23, 2015
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but I wonder . . . where were Christians like you when the Cathars were being burned to death? I am going to go way out on a limb here and say Barry wasn't even born yet.Mung
August 23, 2015
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No I will not absolutely condemn the slaughter. No I will not unconditionally deplore the actions. No I will not clearly decry the sale.
No, I choose NOT to respond to you because of your attitude and your methods. You are using a particular ethical, moral topic to segregate people into crude categories and that's divisive which is not the way to build bridges and, hopefully, consensus. I think you are too much enjoying your soap-box stance which is only widening the gulfs in the scientific landscapes.
Is it just me, or does anyone else find it odd that someone who gets all hot and bothered and indignant about atrocities that occurred 1,000 years ago, can’t seem to bestir himself to lift a finger of protest against atrocities occurring right under his nose?
I consider it much different that the atrocities I referred to were done in the name of Christ. That interpretations of Holy Scriptures were used to justify those occurrences. I have a deep-seated uncertainty of how to predict reactions of Christians to situations considering the past history. I'm glad you seen those past events in the same way I do but I wonder . . . where were Christians like you when the Cathars were being burned to death? If Holy Scripture condemns their actions then how did they occur? How do I know that 20 or 30 years from now a Christian cabal won't go back to persecuting what they consider to be heretics?SLeBrun
August 23, 2015
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PeeZee Myers: You want to make me back down by trying to inspire revulsion with dead baby pictures? I look at them unflinchingly and see meat.
This explains a lot. Nothing more needs to be said about someone like this. PeeZee would have made a great Nazi prison guard.mike1962
August 23, 2015
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So to review, SLeBrun asked if I would condemn certain atrocities. I did. I then asked him: Will you absolutely condemn the slaughter of innocent boys and girls by Planned Parenthood? Will you unconditionally deplore the actions of those who chop those boys and girls into pieces while their heart is still beating? Will you clearly decry the sale of those pieces like meat? SLeBrun's responses @ 8: No I will not absolutely condemn the slaughter. No I will not unconditionally deplore the actions. No I will not clearly decry the sale. Is it just me, or does anyone else find it odd that someone who gets all hot and bothered and indignant about atrocities that occurred 1,000 years ago, can't seem to bestir himself to lift a finger of protest against atrocities occurring right under his nose? Strange that. And evil.Barry Arrington
August 23, 2015
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SLeBrun slithers out of his hole and hisses "The slaughter is legal! So I won't condemn it." Well. SLeBrun, the Holocaust was legal. Not a single internal law of Germany was transgressed. So, may I infer that since you are OK with everything that is legal, you are OK with the Holocaust?Barry Arrington
August 23, 2015
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harry, When I deplore events that occurred over 1,000 years ago, I should not be misunderstood. I am deploring the actions of those particular people at that particular time and nothing else.Barry Arrington
August 23, 2015
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Barry Arrington, Kairosfocus, I am certain we agree that the one who is ultimately behind the contemporary assault on civilization, the one who is engineering the merciless, murderous and unprecedented assault on the image of God in innocent humanity, is the one Christ referred to as "the prince of this world," the one who St. Peter assures us prowls the Earth "like a roaring lion, seeking whom he may devour." It is obvious to me that both of you "hunger and thirst for justice" (Mt 5:6) and do so with an intellect and passion that is all too infrequently found in the members of the Body of Christ. As a Roman Catholic who was a Pro-Life activist before Roe, and one who has spoken in many Protestant Churches as a representative of a state-wide Pro-Life organization affiliated with the NRLC, I can say that I have personally experienced, through the immediate, positive response of various congregations, the Spirit of Christ in my Protestant brothers and sisters in the Lord. I eventually saw many of them practice peaceful, passive civil disobedience that landed them in jail and cost them their jobs. It was obvious to me that they possessed the Spirit of the One Who said, "For he that will save his life, shall lose it: and he that shall lose his life for my sake, shall find it." They had done what they did for His sake, the forgotten, neglected beggar Lazarus of our times, the helpless stranger the world refuses to make welcome: Christ in the least of His brethren, the innocent child in the womb. I assume that both of you see as I do that the prince of this world, that roaring lion in a perpetual rage, has used a "divide and conquer" strategy against his opponent, which is the Body of Christ on Earth. I assume both of you will agree with me that this strategy of his has, to our shame, been a significant factor in the success he has had up to now in his vicious, hate-filled assault on the image of God in innocent humanity. I further assume that both of you agree with me that there is such a thing as a moral, justifiable war, and that never has such a war, or any war, been fought without instances of unjustifiable behavior, except the one led by Michael against the fallen angels, against the prince of this world and his minions. To get the Church's war against the Albigensians in its proper perspective I would refer you to the following article: Our New Albigensian Age It was addressed to Catholics and contains some not-very-diplomatic remarks about Protestants. I apologize for that. Not everyone sees the importance of the restoration of the wholeness of the Body of Christ on Earth. I recommend it to you anyway because it exposes the striking similarities between what brought about the Church's war against Albigensianism and the enemy we face today. I beg you to look past the offensive remarks for the sake of the fact that all Christians need to understand that what we oppose today is not really new, it is a warmed over version of a previous assault on civilization and innocent humanity waged by the very same corrupt, evil prince. As for the crusades, Muslim jihadists had conquered two thirds of Christendom and were aggressively assaulting the last third. Again, I am not arguing that everything done in the crusades was justifiable. I am only pointing out that those of us who are glad they weren't raised as Muslims should also be glad the Church launched the crusades. And what kind of enemy was the Church facing? I am confident that readers here are fully aware of the diabolical torture, crucifixions and sexual trafficking of Christians currently taking place in the Middle East. Evil similarly diabolical and ferocious is what the Church was facing back then, and it courageously did what it had to do in order to preserve Christianity for you and me. And yes, it is very difficult for those of us with fallen natures to wage a just war with the virtue of Michael.harry
August 23, 2015
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Barry, SLeBrun #8: 'respect and dignity'! Love it!Axel
August 23, 2015
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SLe:
Fourth, I find your abandonment of any attempt at a dialogue about science and ID crass and repulsive.
LoL! What an ignorant thing to say. There is only so much to talk about wrt ID and science and all of it has been laid down. Too bad your position doesn't have anything or we could compare.Virgil Cain
August 23, 2015
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PPPS: The issue is moral foundations, and the consequences of undermining such. Here is Provine in his 1998 U Tenn Darwin Day keynote:
Naturalistic evolution has clear consequences that Charles Darwin understood perfectly. 1) No gods worth having exist; 2) no life after death exists; 3) no ultimate foundation for ethics exists; 4) no ultimate meaning in life exists; and 5) human free will is nonexistent . . . . The first 4 implications are so obvious to modern naturalistic evolutionists that I will spend little time defending them. Human free will, however, is another matter. Even evolutionists have trouble swallowing that implication. I will argue that humans are locally determined systems that make choices. They have, however, no free will . . .
Without responsible freedom, both morality and rationality are utterly undermined, ending in self-referential incoherence. But as has been so often the case in marches of folly, self-falsifying agendas can be powerful tools in the hands of manipulators seeking to pull a community, state or civilisation down a path to their perceived advantage. But marches of folly typically end in chaos and shipwreck. And, as early as 1831, Heine warned in one of the most chillingly prophetic pieces in modern literature:
Christianity — and that is its greatest merit — has somewhat mitigated that brutal German love of war, but it could not destroy it. Should that subduing talisman, the cross, be shattered [--> the Swastika, visually, is a twisted, broken cross . . .], the frenzied madness of the ancient warriors, that insane Berserk rage of which Nordic bards have spoken and sung so often, will once more burst into flame. … The old stone gods will then rise from long ruins and rub the dust of a thousand years from their eyes, and Thor will leap to life with his giant hammer and smash the Gothic cathedrals. … … Do not smile at my advice — the advice of a dreamer who warns you against Kantians, Fichteans, and philosophers of nature. Do not smile at the visionary who anticipates the same revolution in the realm of the visible as has taken place in the spiritual. Thought precedes action as lightning precedes thunder. German thunder … comes rolling somewhat slowly, but … its crash … will be unlike anything before in the history of the world. … At that uproar the eagles of the air will drop dead [--> cf. air warfare, symbol of the USA], and lions in farthest Africa [--> the lion is a key symbol of Britain, cf. also the North African campaigns] will draw in their tails and slink away. … A play will be performed in Germany which will make the French Revolution look like an innocent idyll. [Religion and Philosophy in Germany, 1831]
kairosfocus
August 23, 2015
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PPS: Imposed? Yes, let us again pay close attention to Lewontin's notorious remarks in the NYRB, 1997:
. . . to put a correct view of the universe into people's heads [==> as in, "we" have cornered the market on truth, warrant and knowledge] we must first get an incorrect view out [--> as in, if you disagree with "us" of the secularist elite you are wrong, irrational and so dangerous you must be stopped, even at the price of manipulative indoctrination of hoi polloi] . . . the problem is to get them [= hoi polloi] to reject irrational and supernatural explanations of the world, the demons that exist only in their imaginations,
[ --> as in, to think in terms of ethical theism is to be delusional, justifying "our" elitist and establishment-controlling interventions of power to "fix" the widespread mental disease]
and to accept a social and intellectual apparatus, Science, as the only begetter of truth
[--> NB: this is a knowledge claim about knowledge and its possible sources, i.e. it is a claim in philosophy not science; it is thus self-refuting]
. . . . To Sagan, as to all but a few other scientists [--> "we" are the dominant elites], it is self-evident
[--> actually, science and its knowledge claims are plainly not immediately and necessarily true on pain of absurdity, to one who understands them; this is another logical error, begging the question , confused for real self-evidence; whereby a claim shows itself not just true but true on pain of patent absurdity if one tries to deny it . . . and in fact it is evolutionary materialism that is readily shown to be self-refuting]
that the practices of science provide the surest method of putting us in contact with physical reality [--> = all of reality to the evolutionary materialist], and that, in contrast, the demon-haunted world rests on a set of beliefs and behaviors that fail every reasonable test [--> i.e. an assertion that tellingly reveals a hostile mindset, not a warranted claim] . . . . It is not that the methods and institutions of science somehow compel us [= the evo-mat establishment] to accept a material explanation of the phenomenal world, but, on the contrary, that we are forced by our a priori adherence to material causes [--> another major begging of the question . . . ] to create an apparatus of investigation and a set of concepts that produce material explanations, no matter how counter-intuitive, no matter how mystifying to the uninitiated. Moreover, that materialism is absolute [--> i.e. here we see the fallacious, indoctrinated, ideological, closed mind . . . ], for we cannot allow a Divine Foot in the door . . . [--> irreconcilable hostility to ethical theism, already caricatured as believing delusionally in imaginary demons]. [Lewontin, Billions and billions of Demons, NYRB Jan 1997,cf. here. And, if you imagine this is "quote-mined" I invite you to read the fuller annotated citation here.]
kairosfocus
August 23, 2015
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PS: The matters in question here are directly connected to the imposition of the lab coat clad worldview-level ideological agenda of a priori evolutionary materialism, as long since warned against 2350 years ago by Plato in the Laws, Bk X:
Ath. . . .[The avant garde philosophers and poets, c. 360 BC] say that fire and water, and earth and air [i.e the classical "material" elements of the cosmos], all exist by nature and chance, and none of them by art . . . [such that] all that is in the heaven, as well as animals and all plants, and all the seasons come from these elements, not by the action of mind, as they say, or of any God, or from art, but as I was saying, by nature and chance only [ --> that is, evolutionary materialism is ancient and would trace all things to blind chance and mechanical necessity] . . . . [Thus, they hold] that the principles of justice have no existence at all in nature, but that mankind are always disputing about them and altering them; and that the alterations which are made by art and by law have no basis in nature, but are of authority for the moment and at the time at which they are made.-
[ --> Relativism, too, is not new; complete with its radical amorality rooted in a worldview that has no foundational IS that can ground OUGHT, leading to an effectively arbitrary foundation only for morality, ethics and law: accident of personal preference, the ebbs and flows of power politics, accidents of history and and the shifting sands of manipulated community opinion driven by "winds and waves of doctrine and the cunning craftiness of men in their deceitful scheming . . . " cf a video on Plato's parable of the cave; from the perspective of pondering who set up the manipulative shadow-shows, why.]
These, my friends, are the sayings of wise men, poets and prose writers, which find a way into the minds of youth. They are told by them that the highest right is might,
[ --> Evolutionary materialism -- having no IS that can properly ground OUGHT -- leads to the promotion of amorality on which the only basis for "OUGHT" is seen to be might (and manipulation: might in "spin") . . . ]
and in this way the young fall into impieties, under the idea that the Gods are not such as the law bids them imagine; and hence arise factions [ --> Evolutionary materialism-motivated amorality "naturally" leads to continual contentions and power struggles influenced by that amorality at the hands of ruthless power hungry nihilistic agendas], these philosophers inviting them to lead a true life according to nature, that is,to live in real dominion over others [ --> such amoral and/or nihilistic factions, if they gain power, "naturally" tend towards ruthless abuse and arbitrariness . . . they have not learned the habits nor accepted the principles of mutual respect, justice, fairness and keeping the civil peace of justice, so they will want to deceive, manipulate and crush -- as the consistent history of radical revolutions over the past 250 years so plainly shows again and again], and not in legal subjection to them.
So, yes, there is a debate over matters of science --on which I find that the all too commonly seen refusal of ever so many to soundly address the source of functionally specific complex organisation and associated information is a telling indicator that the core of the issue is not mere seminar room discussion of scientific themes but the imposition of a worldview level ideology dressed up in a lab coat, with serious and wide ranging consequences, one of which is the undermining of the value of life as perceived. Which is a decisive issue not only for science in society, but for us all in it own right, as the right to life is being undermined before our eyes. While we sit by enabling, or worse. That has to stop, and the people who have now forced us to face the awful truth should be thanked. Instead, they are already being investigated, following the well known shoot at the unwelcome messenger to silence the message tactic.kairosfocus
August 23, 2015
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SL, I first note that your remarks above are little more than a diversion of attention, in the teeth of what is plainly the root moral issue and reformation challenge of our time. And no, this is not about attention-getting behaviour, it is about mass bloodguilt and our need to wake up and turn back before it is too late. The time for neat little rhetorical games and clever talking points is over. The pictures and words on the table devastatingly indict us and demand an appropriately sober and serious, face the unwelcome, awful truth, response. Namely, the root, catastrophic failure of our whole civilisation to recognise, respect and protect innocent life. Driven by the folly of willfully turning our backs on patent truths and patent moral issues. We have discarded the first, foremost right of all. The one without which all other rights claims fall to the ground. Life. That, we must face first and foremost. Then, we can face how our general moral problem is that we are finite, fallible, morally struggling and too often ill-willed or even self-deceived. The moral hazard of being human. So, yes, I have no problem acknowledging and deploring that in the history of Christendom, there have been some pretty awful moments -- as is so for all significant movements in history. (BTW, in the first of your examples, the massacre, I understand, was in defiance of the wishes of the commanders -- who had intended and promised to protect, and a key provocation was earlier massacres of pilgrims to holy sites in the 1060's. Another was the culmination of 400 years of jihad expansionism and depredations including raids on Rome and as far as Ireland.) What I find deplorable, is that at the same time, too many of those who (far too often, with an unholy bear-baiting glee . . . ) trot out litanies of the sins of Christendom cannot find it in themselves to acknowledge the major contribution of Christians to reform of law and society, by contrast with say Bernard Lewis in his 1990 epochal essay on The Roots of Muslim Rage:
. . . The accusations are familiar. We of the West are accused of sexism, racism, and imperialism, institutionalized in patriarchy and slavery, tyranny and exploitation. To these charges, and to others as heinous, we have no option but to plead guilty -- not as Americans, nor yet as Westerners, but simply as human beings, as members of the human race. In none of these sins are we the only sinners, and in some of them we are very far from being the worst. The treatment of women in the Western world, and more generally in Christendom, has always been unequal and often oppressive, but even at its worst it was rather better than the rule of polygamy and concubinage that has otherwise been the almost universal lot of womankind on this planet . . . . In having practiced sexism, racism, and imperialism, the West was merely following the common practice of mankind through the millennia of recorded history. Where it is distinct from all other civilizations is in having recognized, named, and tried, not entirely without success, to remedy these historic diseases. And that is surely a matter for congratulation, not condemnation. We do not hold Western medical science in general, or Dr. Parkinson and Dr. Alzheimer in particular, responsible for the diseases they diagnosed and to which they gave their names.
. . . not to mention the even more significant contribution to the rise of modern liberty and democracy, starting from literally the opening words of Alfred's Book of Dooms, as I recently discussed here at UD. But, for cause, I have to tax you with enabling behaviour by way of agenda-serving distraction by way of attempted immoral equivalency. (Even, as I did not realise just how bad things are and failed to speak out enough, often enough.) For, right in front of our eyes, we find laid out a great horror, the worst all-time holocaust. One, that taints our increasingly post-Christian civilisation with mass bloodguilt, one of the most corrupting influences of all. For, how can one pay compensation for innocent blood, given the yardstick set for us, a single soul outweighs the wealth of a planet. (The only relevant currency for blood is blood, then, and therein lies the doctrine of atonement at the heart of the Christian gospel. and the implication that those who insist on being a plague upon the earth reach a point where the cup of iniquity runs over and in defence of humanity such a destructive power must be shattered. Which, is what happened to the nazis. And, I fear, I tremble, it is the terrible logic that our civilisation is now looking at.) In the USA alone, subsidised by the taxpayer at 1/2 bn per year, we have over 1 mn unborn children killed in abortion clinics per year . . . an unreported 9/11 per DAY. Many of these are now leading to the sort of high tech cannibalistic harvesting for tainted so-called medical research that condemned Mengele and other medical doctors forever. The global willfully induced abortion total in the past generation is at least many hundreds of millions, at a rate of maybe 40+ mn per year. In Asia, leading countries to dangerous sex imbalances due to selective killing of daughters in the womb. Something that itself speaks with chilling force. We are all nazis and nazi enablers now, guilty, guilty, guilty. The ghosts of the White Rose martyrs cry up against us. We have become what we once paid an awful price in blood to stop. For shame! This is and must be the first civil rights crisis of our time, as the right to life is the premise of all rights. And, it is directly connected to all the other warped agendas, starting with sex without responsibility and with addictive, too often morally dubious pleasure as a god. The willful breakdown of freedom of expression (think, the porn plague), the manipulation of thought on rights, the breakdown of marriage the mentality that says, I deem the tail of a sheep a fifth leg and if you object that a tail cannot be a leg you are a bigot to be robbed of livelihood, reputation, home and more are all connected. Voting for politicians who will put in judges who will warp law to support perversities and bloodguilt, is also connected. And more, a march of willful folly to ruin. Let us wake up and try, at least try to recognise what we have done and seek forgiveness and reformation. If we do not, we will commit suicide as a civilisation. Actually, on our birth rates [directly connected, again], we already are doing so. And no, this is decidedly not an "American" issue. The guilt is global, the cry to heaven of the ghosts of hundreds and hundreds of millions is against us all. And the same folly is bringing us to the brink of nuclear-armed global war as we speak, directly implicating the sort of people we have been voting into office for years and years, the media who have manipulated us, and we the public who love it so. Guilty, guilty, guilty. Folly, folly, folly. Let us wake up, seek forgiveness and cleansing, turning back before it is too late. The time for clever talking point games is over. We are the new nazis and nazi enablers. God help us. KFkairosfocus
August 23, 2015
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That makes SLeBrun selective about the evil he condemns. And that makes him a hypocrite. How utterly predictable. I knew he would slither back into his hole the minute he saw the challenge.
First of all, I do not live in the US so was asleep. Secondly, my opinion of procedures deemed legal by a majority of Americans is meaningless since it's not my country and I have no say. Thirdly, your vain attempts to segregate participants on this blog is laughable; if you really want to change thing in America why aren't you trying to change the laws, participate in the proscribed process of determining what is and what isn't allowed? Maybe you are but from what I can tell you are just beating your drum and declaring yourself ethically and morally correct with a cheap ploy. As well you should know, in a modern democratic society no one book or person or opinion rules the day. Fourth, I find your abandonment of any attempt at a dialogue about science and ID crass and repulsive. Your grandstanding will only serve to drive moderates away and Uncommon Descent will further descend into a mutually shouting match. Maybe that's what you want. And finally, since you clearly have no intention at all of treating others with respect and dignity I'm not going to feed your need for attention.SLeBrun
August 22, 2015
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BA 2 "Will you absolutely condemn the slaughter of innocent boys and girls by Planned Parenthood? Will you unconditionally deplore the actions of those who chop those boys and girls into pieces while their heart is still beating? Will you clearly decry the sale of those pieces like meat?" ----------------------------------------------------- But all this is fine. Because CHOICE!anthropic
August 22, 2015
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SLeBrun asked us to repudiate evil done hundreds of years ago by people who call themselves Christian. I did. I asked SLeBrun to repudiate evil done ten minutes ago. [crickets] That makes SLeBrun selective about the evil he condemns. And that makes him a hypocrite. How utterly predictable. I knew he would slither back into his hole the minute he saw the challenge.Barry Arrington
August 22, 2015
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SLeBrun @ #1: You forgot Moses and Samuel.Roy
August 22, 2015
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Barry, you forgot to say in #2, 'chopped them up ALIVE.' I wonder if he'd used them as live bait for fishing. I can't imagine it would be a problem for PZ Meyer. [#2 updated, Barry]Axel
August 22, 2015
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How about this quote from a certain PZ Meyer, Barry! 'Or P.Z. Myers’ "brave" defense of abortion: [T]he standard bullying tactics of waving bloody fetuses might cow the squeamish, but I'm a biologist. I've guillotined rats. I've held eyeballs in my hand and peeled them apart with a pair of scissors. I've used a wet-vac to clean up a lake of half-clotted blood from an exsanguinated dog. I've opened bodies and watched the intestines do their slow writhing dance, I've been elbow deep in blood, I've split open cats and stabbed them in the heart with a perfusion needle. I've extracted the brains of mice…with a pair of pliers. I've scooped brains out of buckets, I've counted dendrites in slices cut from the brains of dead babies. You want to make me back down by trying to inspire revulsion with dead baby pictures? I look at them unflinchingly and see meat. And meat does not frighten me.' ... from here: http://www.ncregister.com/blog/mark-shea/false-courage-and-true-courage That's the second of my quotes of Mark Shea in 2 days, and I've fell out with the guy, just before the first! He's often brilliant, but a twerp at times.Axel
August 22, 2015
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1. Yes 2. Yes 3. Yes SLeBrun Now that I’ve answered your questions SL, perhaps you will answer mine. Will you absolutely condemn the slaughter of innocent boys and girls by Planned Parenthood? Will you unconditionally deplore the actions of those who chop those boys and girls into pieces while their heart is still beating? Will you clearly decry the sale of those pieces like meat? Just checking.Barry Arrington
August 22, 2015
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Just to be clear then . . . You would absolutely condemn the mass killings of innocent women and children during the Siege of Jerusalem by the Crusaders in 1099 (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Siege_of_Jerusalem_(1099)) You would unconditionally deplore the senseless slaughter of innocents during the Albigensian Crusade (1209 - 1229) wherein the Pope sanctioned the extermination of those he considered heretics? (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Albigensian_Crusade) And you would clearly decry the Massacre of Merindol (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Massacre_of_Mérindol) in 1545 where, again, religious dissidents were put to the sword. Just checking.SLeBrun
August 22, 2015
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