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All that follows is from commenter RDM:

Perhaps the greatest irony of this whole discussion, given that it is primarily dealing with materialists and their objections to self-evident moral truths, is two-fold.

First, consider that in many respects, philosophical arguments are simply plausibility comparisons. One argument/view is simply more plausible than another. Now, in terms of a plausibility comparison between “it is always and everywhere wrong and evil to torture a child for fun” and “materialism is true and thus it is not always wrong to torture a child for fun”, the former is light-years more plausible and certain than the latter. Any worldview that rejects that moral truth is infinitely less plausible than the moral truth itself. In fact, that moral truth is more plausible than the claim that “matter itself exists”. And so, the irony here is the following: the moment that I doubt the truth of that moral statement is the moment that I gain infinitely more reason to doubt the truth of materialism (or naturalism, to use a different name for it).

Now the second great irony in hearing the materialist argue, in part, against self-evident truths, is that materialism, at its core, depends, in a certain way, on the idea of self-evidence. And not in the ways already mentioned—although in those as well—but rather in that the existence of matter itself is arguably supported by nothing but self-evidence. After all, what is the materialist’s proof or empirical evidence that matter actually exists? As Berkeley and others showed, not only is there nothing that can “prove” that matter exists, but there are actual good arguments against the existence of matter. And so, for the existence of matter, the materialist can offer, as inferential evidence or proof, nothing more than the person who says that “it is always wrong to torture a child for fun” can offer for his view. And remember, the burden of proof is on the materialist, for he asserts the existence of matter. And so, if you think yourself justified to rejecting the aforementioned moral claim, than you are doubly justified in rejecting the very existence of matter, and, in turn, in rejecting materialism. So, in rejecting the very moral claim that it must reject in order to be coherent, materialism simultaneously provides us with the very grounds to deny the existence of matter, and thus to deny materialism itself. Materialism, in essence, loses no matter which way it turns.

Comments
The utter hypocrisy of a website full of Christians who spend every waking moment of every waking day showing the evil of Materialism while accepting its main scientific claim: natural selection causing species mutability. How do we explain such an egregious contradiction? Ignorance? Delusion? Whatever the case, contrary to their belief about them self, one can rightfully use the fact of acceptance to say these persons are NOT following Christ. RM (Protestant Evangelical, Old Earth, Paleyan IDist-species immutabilist)Ray Martinez
September 2, 2015
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I am not sure if RDFish simply skimmed until offended, or if he actually missed it, but I will point out that I did write the following in the OP: "...materialism (or naturalism, to use a different name for it). So it was not like I don't understand the great nuances--or more often evasions--that pervade amongst materialist / naturalistic circles. At the same time, however, it should also be pointed out that, as a rule of thumb, it is entirely rational, at least in the West, to assume that any atheist is a materialist / naturalist until and unless provided with evidence to the contrary. And so, using such a term as "materialist" to describe a western atheist is not only not unwarranted, but is quite sensible until provided with proof to the contrary.RDM
September 2, 2015
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Right Mapou, but those particles never actually collide with other particles. Super collider is a complete misnomer.Mung
September 2, 2015
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Fish mon:
The notion that the universe consists of “matter in motion” was abandoned by physical scientists 100+ years ago.
Woah. You got a reference for this? The last I heard, physicists still believe that the universe consists of particles of matter in motion. Heck, they've built miles-long particle accelerators based on that assumption.Mapou
September 2, 2015
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RDFish
The notion that the universe consists of “matter in motion” was abandoned by physical scientists 100+ years ago. Yet people on this forum pretend that people (whom you call “materialists”) still believe that matter consists of little bits of stuff that bounce off each other while they move around in space.
No, RDFish, that is your straw man caricature of materialism that you attribute to your opponents so that you can knock it down. You've done so numerous times. It is tiresome. Kindly give it a rest. Do you really think that when people use short hand notations like "materialism" nowadays (and both materialists and non-materialists do), they must necessarily be talking about "tiny billiard ball" materialism that was once believed many years ago? If so, you are an idiot. In fact, it occurs to me that there is a post at UD entitled "RDFish is an Idiot" Thanks for adding more confirming data. If, like RDFish, I could respond to my opponents arguments only by lying about what they say, I think it would give me pause. Based on much experience, RDFish is unfazed when his lies are exposed.Barry Arrington
September 2, 2015
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The notion that the universe consists of "matter in motion" was abandoned by physical scientists 100+ years ago. Yet people on this forum pretend that people (whom you call "materialists") still believe that matter consists of little bits of stuff that bounce off each other while they move around in space. Then you equate these "materialists" with atheists - as though atheists for some reason don't believe in modern physics. Then you equate atheists with "evolutionists", as though if you don't believe in some particular god you are obliged to accept that evolutionary theory explains the existence living systems. So much confusion from your desire to label, categorize, demonize, and blame this enemy called "the materialists".RDFish
September 2, 2015
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In its relationship with empirical science properly so-called, atheist science bears a remarkable resemblance to television 'infotainment', passing as News: a digest of gratuitously subjective, low-level Establishment propaganda; in short, a comic-strip in the guise of a purveyor of serious, true and coherent information.Axel
September 2, 2015
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as to:
"As Berkeley and others showed, not only is there nothing that can “prove” that matter exists, but there are actual good arguments against the existence of matter."
Here is a summary of Berkeley's main arguments:
Berkeley's main arguments in the three dialogues can be reduced to these themes: Dialogue 1: Matter is inconceivable. Dialogue 2: Matter plays no functional role in explanation. Dialogue 3: Idealism is consistent with everyday experience. http://www2.drury.edu/cpanza/berkeley1&2.html
Here is a book that also attacks materialism from the philosophical viewpoint:
The Waning of Materialism Edited by Robert C. Koons and George Bealer Description: Twenty-three philosophers examine the doctrine of materialism and find it wanting. The case against materialism comprises arguments from conscious experience, from the unity and identity of the person, from intentionality, mental causation, and knowledge. The contributors include leaders in the fields of philosophy of mind, metaphysics, ontology, and epistemology, who respond ably to the most recent versions and defenses of materialism. The modal arguments of Kripke and Chalmers, Jackson’s knowledge argument, Kim’s exclusion problem, and Burge’s anti-individualism all play a part in the building of a powerful cumulative case against the materialist research program. Several papers address the implications of contemporary brain and cognitive research (the psychophysics of color perception, blindsight, and the effects of commissurotomies), adding a posteriori arguments to the classical a priori critique of reductionism. All of the current versions of materialism–reductive and non-reductive, functionalist, eliminativist, and new wave materialism–come under sustained and trenchant attack. http://www.oup.com/us/catalog/general/subject/Philosophy/Metaphysics/?view=usa&ci=9780199556199 Dr.Robert C. Koons — "The Waning of Materialism" - video https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GZLHKlwue20
But besides these philosophical arguments which refute materialism, empirical science itself, namely quantum mechanics, has now unambiguously refuted materialism.
Double-slit experiment Excerpt: In 1999 objects large enough to see under a microscope, buckyball (interlocking carbon atom) molecules (diameter about 0.7 nm, nearly half a million times that of a proton), were found to exhibit wave-like interference. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Double-slit_experiment Physicists Smash Record For Wave-Particle Duality - Oct. 2013 Excerpt: According to quantum mechanics, wave-particle duality and quantum superpositions must also occur for macroscopic objects such as viruses, cells and even baseballs,,, Having created a beam of these molecules, Eibenberger and co pass them through a series of slits that reveal any wavelike characteristics. Sure enough, the molecules form an interference pattern at the detector which implies that they must have been superposed (i.e. in superposition) while passing through the slits.,,, “Our data confirm the fully coherent quantum delocalization of single compounds composed of about 5000 protons, 5000 neutrons and 5000 electrons,” they say. https://medium.com/the-physics-arxiv-blog/physicists-smash-record-for-wave-particle-duality-462c39db8e7b Why Quantum Theory Does Not Support Materialism - By Bruce L Gordon: Excerpt: Because quantum theory is thought to provide the bedrock for our scientific understanding of physical reality, it is to this theory that the materialist inevitably appeals in support of his worldview. But having fled to science in search of a safe haven for his doctrines, the materialist instead finds that quantum theory in fact dissolves and defeats his materialist understanding of the world.,, The underlying problem is this: there are correlations in nature that require a causal explanation but for which no physical explanation is in principle possible. Furthermore, the nonlocalizability of field quanta entails that these entities, whatever they are, fail the criterion of material individuality. So, paradoxically and ironically, the most fundamental constituents and relations of the material world cannot, in principle, be understood in terms of material substances. Since there must be some explanation for these things, the correct explanation will have to be one which is non-physical - and this is plainly incompatible with any and all varieties of materialism. http://www.4truth.net/fourtruthpbscience.aspx?pageid=8589952939 "[while a number of philosophical ideas] may be logically consistent with present quantum mechanics, ...materialism is not." Eugene Wigner Quantum Physics Debunks Materialism - video playlist https://www.youtube.com/watch?list=PL1mr9ZTZb3TViAqtowpvZy5PZpn-MoSK_&v=4C5pq7W5yRM
i.e., It is now shown that what we think of material reality, i.e. think of as solid material atoms, simply do exist as solid material atoms prior to conscious observation of them, but material atoms only come into existence upon conscious observation, i.e. upon collapse of the quantum wave state.
New Mind-blowing Experiment Confirms That Reality Doesn’t Exist If You Are Not Looking at It - June 3, 2015 Excerpt: The results of the Australian scientists’ experiment, which were published in the journal Nature Physics, show that this choice is determined by the way the object is measured, which is in accordance with what quantum theory predicts. “It proves that measurement is everything. At the quantum level, reality does not exist if you are not looking at it,” said lead researcher Dr. Andrew Truscott in a press release.,,, “The atoms did not travel from A to B. It was only when they were measured at the end of the journey that their wave-like or particle-like behavior was brought into existence,” he said. Thus, this experiment adds to the validity of the quantum theory and provides new evidence to the idea that reality doesn’t exist without an observer. http://themindunleashed.org/2015/06/new-mind-blowing-experiment-confirms-that-reality-doesnt-exist-if-you-are-not-looking-at-it.html A Short Survey Of Quantum Mechanics and Consciousness Excerpt: Putting all the lines of evidence together the argument for God from consciousness can now be framed like this: 1. Consciousness either preceded all of material reality or is a ‘epi-phenomena’ of material reality. 2. If consciousness is a ‘epi-phenomena’ of material reality then consciousness will be found to have no special position within material reality. Whereas conversely, if consciousness precedes material reality then consciousness will be found to have a special position within material reality. 3. Consciousness is found to have a special, even central, position within material reality. 4. Therefore, consciousness is found to precede material reality. Four intersecting lines of experimental evidence from quantum mechanics that shows that consciousness precedes material reality (Wigner’s Quantum Symmetries, Wheeler’s Delayed Choice, Leggett’s Inequalities, Quantum Zeno effect) https://docs.google.com/document/d/1uLcJUgLm1vwFyjwcbwuYP0bK6k8mXy-of990HudzduI/edit
Thus materialism is now found to be not only philosophically incoherent, (as it has been philosophically incoherent since the time of the ancient Greeks), but now materialism is also empirically falsified by experiment. Since the philosophical arguments have been around for centuries and quantum mechanics has been around for decades (circa 1920), perhaps in another 150 years or so atheistic materialists will finally realize that both science and philosophy have now left them far behind? Some may say that I'm a dreamer for thinking atheistic materialists will ever be reasonable to argument and evidence even 150 years from now, but then I have always been optimistic 'cup is half full' type of guy. :)bornagain77
September 2, 2015
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