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Religious Nones: The bigger picture shows increasing polarization

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On recent Sundays, we’ve been pointing to discussions of the rise of the Religious Nones (people who say they have no religion) – and what that means and doesn’t mean. (Here and here, for example).

It doesn’t mean that former theists have become atheists or even that they are likely to. The driving factor is the collapse of mainline Protestantism, leaving people who are vaguely theist without a religious identity. Many questions lie beyond that change but first, a note about identity…

The Catholic Church is in big trouble too. But the nature of the problem is a bit different. “Catholic” is a multigenerational identity. People can think of themselves as Catholic even if no one since their grandparents’ day has ever been to mass. Put another way: They don’t think they’re atheists (that’s scary). They just continue to say they are Catholic—even if they can’t recite the Lord’s Prayer. No one challenges them on the point. Why bother? One suspects it’s roughly similar with Islam in the Middle East.

By contrast, let’s say that no one in your family has darkened the door of a mainline liberal church since your grandmother did, occasonally, in the 1960s. You probably won’t think of yourself as a member. Truth be told, such a church never had much impact on the culture around it. In recent decades, it probably became largely indistinguishable from the surrounding culture from which it got all its ideas. Its disappearance would have little cultural impact.

The rise of the Nones does mean something important, however: Those who care about the Big Questions are more visibly polarized:

Consider, for example, the percentage of Americans who report that their religious affiliation is “Strong.” This percentage has fluctuated a bit over the decades, but the most recent survey puts it at 34 percent, a number that has remained basically unchanged since 1975, when 35 percent of Americans reported a strong religious affiliation. Apparently, the rise of the Nones is not attributable to a decline in religious enthusiasm among the most strongly committed.

By contrast, the decline in the percentage of Americans who say their religious affiliation is only “Somewhat strong” appears steadier, particularly in recent years. In 2006, about 12 percent of Americans told the GSS surveyors that their affiliation was “Somewhat Strong.” In the most recent survey, that percentage has fallen to only 4 percent. That is a significant drop… Confirmation bias is always a problem when one looks at data like this. Still, the 2018 report suggests that Americans are becoming deeply divided in our attitudes toward religion, a subject about which I’ve written elsewhere. Mark Movsesian, “The Devout and the Nones” at First Things

Movsesian goes on to explain that the divide leaves a deeper mark now on American politics, with Religious Nones being the largest group in the Democratic Party (30%) and 70% of declared Republicans believing in the “God of the Bible.” The “religious left,” incidentally, now seems to be largely an artifact of thinkmags, although it was an important force decades ago.

Visible polarization enables issues to become more politicized than they otherwise could be.

Whatever happens with science issues as a result won’t be dull.

See also: Researchers: Rise In “Religious Nones” Masks Growth In Evangelicalism

and

For The First Time, “No Religion” Is The Most Popular Choice For Americans

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The Inescapable Link between Homosexuality and Pedophilia - JANUARY 9, 2019 A German cardinal, Cardinal Walter Brandmüller, is in a lot of trouble for pointing out the obvious: the problem in today’s Catholic Church is homosexuality and its inescapable link to pedophilia. The sexual abuse of boys by Catholic clergy is now a mushroom cloud hanging over the Catholic Church, threatening its stability and its future. The issue burst into the open with the revelation in the summer of 2018 that six dioceses in Pennsylvania had been covering up at least 1,000 instances of child sexual abuse by hundreds of priests over the course of decades.,,, Cardinal Brandmüller was a bit too quick to deflect blame from the Catholic Church itself, by blaming the whole problem on homosexuality. But they invited this scandal when it began allowing homosexuals to enter its seminaries in the 1960s. They did so because of the difficulty of recruiting young men into the priesthood who quite naturally wanted to marry and have families. As more and more homosexuals flooded seminaries and then went into the priesthood, a culture of homosexuality was fostered in the church with all its attendant pathologies. One pathology that LGBT activists will not acknowledge is the unmistakable connection between homosexuality and pedophilia. The American Professional Society on the Abuse of Children stated flatly that “the vast majority of the offenders are male.” (The information in these paragraphs is found in the publication, “The Top Ten Myths About Homosexuality” from the Family Research Council.) The Journal of Sex & Married Therapy, in a study of male sex offenders against children, found that one-third of the offenders directed their sexual activity against males. And the Journal of Sex Research found that homosexual pedophiles commit about one-third of the total number of sex offenses against children. This fact is particularly disturbing. Homosexuals comprise just two percent of the population, yet are responsible for 33% of all child sexual abuse. They offend against children at 16 times the rate of the normal population. The Archives of Sexual Behavior, in a study of 229 convicted child molesters, found that “eighty-six percent of offenders against males described themselves as homosexual or bisexual.” https://www.afa.net/the-stand/culture/2019/01/the-inescapable-link-between-homosexuality-and-pedophilia/ Frightening Gay Statistics PEDOPHILIA IN THE UNITED STATES In the United States, homosexual activists are more circumspect about their efforts to gain access to children than they are in Canada or Europe. While NAMBLA has regularly marched in homosexual pride parades in New York, San Francisco and other major cities, homosexual activists publicly disassociate themselves from pedophiles as part of a public relations strategy.,,, How prevalent is child molestation among homosexuals? The Gay Report, published by homosexual researchers Jay and Young in 1979, revealed that 73 percent of homosexuals surveyed had at some time had sex with boys 16 to 19 years of age or younger.5 (5. K. Jay and A. Young, The Gay Report (New York: Summit Books, 1979), p. 275. ) Although homosexuals account for less than two percent of the population. they constitute about a third of child molesters.6 (6. K. Freund and R.I. Watson, "The Proportions of Heterosexual and Homosexual Pedophiles Among Sex Offenders Against Children: An Exploratory Study," Journal of Sex and Marital Therapy 18 (Spring 1992): 3443, cited in "The Problem of Pedophilia," op. cit. Also, K. Freund and R.I. Watson, "Pedophilia and Heterosexuality vs. Homosexuality," Journal of Sex and Marital Therapy 10 (Fall 1984): 197, cited in NARTH Fact Sheet. ) Further, as noted by the Encino, Calif.-based National Association for research and Therapy of Homosexuality (NARTH), "since homosexual pedophiles victimize far more children than do heterosexual pedophiles, it is estimated that approximately 80 percent or pedophile victims are boys who have been molested by adultmales.7 (7. Thomas Schmidt, Straight and Narrow? Compassion and Clarity in the Homosexuality Debate (Downers Grove, IU.: Intervarsity Press), p. 114, cited in "The Problem of Pedophilia, op. cit., p. 2. ) A nationwide investigation of child molestation in the Boy Scouts from 1971 to 1991 revealed that more than 2,000 boys reported molestations by adult Scout leaders. (Note: The Scouts, who have 150,000 Scoutmasters and assistant Scoutmasters, ban hundreds of men each year from scouting out of concern that they might abuse boys.)8 (8. Patrick Boyle, Scout's Honor (Rocklin, Calif.: Prima Publishing, 1994), p. 3l6. ) A study of Canadian pedophiles has shown that 30 percent of those studied admitted to having engaged In homosexual acts as adults, and 91 percent of the molesters of non-familial boys admitted to no lifetime sexual contact other than homosexual.9 (9. W. L. Marshall, et al., "Early onset and deviant sexuality in child molesters," Journal of interpersonal Violence 6 (1991): 323-336, cited in "Pedophilia: The Part of Homosexuality They Don't Want You to see," Colorado for Family Values Report, Vol. 14, March 1994. ) Judith A. Reisman, Ph.D., and Charles B. Johnson, Ph.D., conducted a content study of the personal ads in the Advocate, the national gay and lesbian newsmagazine and discovered that "chickens," a common term for underage boys sought for sex, were widely solicited. Many of the advertisements in the magazine solicited boys and teens from within a larger pool of prostitution ads.10 (10. Judith A. Reisman, Ph.D., "A Content Analysis of 'The Advocate,"' unpublished manuscript p. 18, quoted in "Pedophilia: The Part of Homosexuality They Don't WantYou to See," ibid. ) The authors also note a statement from a book review by homosexual activist Larry Kramer that the work, "like much canonized male homosexual literature, involves sexually predatory white men on the prowl for dark-skinned boys to gratify them.11 (11. From "Lany Kramer's Reading List," The Advocate, January 24, 1995, p. 99, cited in "Status Report," The Reisman & Johnson Report of Partner Solicitation Characteristics as a Reflection of More Sexual Orientation and the Threat to Children, First Principles Press, January l995.) In a 1985 study of the rates of molestation among homosexual pederasts compared to heterosexu1 pedophiles, Dr. Paul Cameron found the following: 153 pederasts had sexually molested 22,981 boys over an average period of 22 years. 224 pedophiles had molested 4,435 girls over an average period of 18 years. The average pederast molested an average of 150 boys, and each heterosexual pedophile molested an average of 20 girls, a ratio of 7.5 to one. 12 (12. Dr. Paul Cameron, “Homosexual Molestation of Children/Sexual Interaction of Teacher and Pupil,” Psychological Reports 57 (1985): 1227-1236.) http://www.emaso.com/links/extra/frightening_gay_statistics/frightening_gay_statistics.htm
Of course, gay activists and their allies in the fake news media, are in full denial mode over these stats. But the link is real none-the-less.bornagain77
May 7, 2019
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Hazel
Yes, BB: how often do we look at our friends and think about their sex lives?
I think that you have touched on the key point. Obviously you and I look at our friends and feel that their sexual practices are of little interest to us. We understand that they probably enjoy sexual activity but we don’t think about them or base their worth on them. However, some appear to look at the very same people and obsess about their sexual activity, passing judgment accordingly.Brother Brian
May 7, 2019
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I have been following this conversation for some time. Very interesting and thought provoking. But I have to be honest, BA77’s comments at 4, 9, 41, 42, 49, 97, 103, 113, 116 and 122 are off topic and irrelevant. Not surprising, but sad none the less.Ed George
May 7, 2019
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Yes, BB: how often do we look at our friends and think about their sex lives? And if we do, how much do we know? In my experience, all that is pretty private and not a very big part of my experience of them at all. And to be more crude, try going into a restaurant or Walmart or just the downtown streets and think about the sex lives of the couples coming down the streets. Pay attention to how stereotypes arise based on looks when you have no real idea about their sex lives: how often, how passionate, how varied, what practices, how satisfying, etc. This is all just stuff that should be left in people's individual hands (and other body parts) and the rest of us should stay out of it, irrespective of gender.hazel
May 7, 2019
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EDTA, I have to agree with Hazel on this one. You suggest that homosexuals seem to be in their relationships more for the sex than for the love. And, obviously, that is true for some. As it is true for many heterosexual couples. But, I have a serious question. When you see a couple, either homosexual or heterosexual, what outward clues do you see that they are more interested in sex than love? With respect, I suggest that your conclusion is drawn more from preconceived bias (predudice) than from objective observation. I am in my mid sixties and I am friends with three homosexual couples of similar age. Intellectually I know that they enjoy sexual interactions. As I know that my heterosexual friends also enjoy sexual interactions with their spouses. But regardless of which couple I am with, their sexual activity is the furthest thing from my mind. I am far more interested in their other interests and experiences.Brother Brian
May 7, 2019
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Adults Raised by Gay Couples Speak Out Against Gay ‘Marriage’ in Federal Court By Lauretta Brown | January 23, 2015 Excerpt: “I wasn’t surrounded by average heterosexual couples,” she says in her court brief. “Dad’s partners slept and ate in our home, and they took me along to meeting places in the LGBT communities. I was exposed to overt sexual activities like sodomy, nudity, pornography, group sex, sadomasochism and the ilk.” “There was no guarantee that any of my Dad’s partners would be around for long, and yet I often had to obey them,” she said. “My rights and innocence were violated.” “As children, we are not allowed to express our disagreement, pain and confusion,” Stefanowicz explained. “Most adult children from gay households do not feel safe or free to publicly express their stories and life-long challenges; they fear losing professional licenses, not obtaining employment in their chosen field, being cut off from some family members or losing whatever relationship they have with their gay parent(s). Some gay parents have threatened to leave no inheritance, if the children don’t accept their parent’s partner du jour.” “I grew up with a parent and her partner[s] in an atmosphere in which gay ideology was used as a tool of repression, retribution and abuse,” B.N. Klein wrote of her experience with a lesbian mother. “I have seen that children in gay households often become props to be publicly displayed to prove that gay families are just like heterosexual ones.” Klein said she was taught that “some Jews and most Christians were stupid and hated gays and were violent,” and that homosexuals were “much more creative and artistic” because they were not repressed and were naturally more ‘feeling.’” “At the same time I was given the message that if I did not agree (which I did not), I was stupid and damned to a life of punishing hostility from my mother and her partner,” she recounts. “They did this with the encouragement of all their gay friends in the community and they were like a cheering squad. I was only allowed out of my room to go to school. This could go on for weeks.” “I was supposed to hate everyone based on what they thought of my mother and her partner,” said Klein. “People’s accomplishments did not matter, their personal struggles did not matter, and their own histories were of no consequence. The only thing that mattered was what they thought of gays.” Robert Oscar Lopez who was also raised by a lesbian mother and her partner, had a different experience which he described as the “best possible conditions for a child raised by a same-sex couple.” “Had I been formally studied by same-sex parenting ‘experts’ in 1985, I would have confirmed their rosiest estimations of LGBT family life,” Lopez wrote, but then went on to argue against same-sex marriage saying that, “behind these facades of a happy ‘outcome’ lay many problems.” He describes experiencing a great deal of sexual confusion due to the lack of a father figure in his life. He turned to a life of prostitution with older men as a teenager.,,, https://www.cnsnews.com/news/article/lauretta-brown/adults-raised-gay-couples-speak-out-against-gay-marriage-federal-court High school graduation rates among children of same-sex households - 2013 Excerpt: Children living with gay and lesbian families in 2006 were about 65 % as likely to graduate compared to children living in opposite sex marriage families. Daughters of same-sex parents do considerably worse than sons. http://link.springer.com/article/10.1007/s11150-013-9220-y/ That Study Showing Kids With Same-Sex Parents Fare Better? Yeah, the Media Left a Few Details Out. - July 2014 http://dailysignal.com/2014/07/10/study-showing-kids-sex-parents-fare-better-yeah-media-left-details/
bornagain77
May 7, 2019
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Oops - left out an important word: "As with most middle-aged couples, I imagine sex has both a less frequent and perhaps more integrated role in their overall relationship of love, support, and companionship.hazel
May 7, 2019
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EDTA writes, 'For the most part, they seem to be in it for the sex alone." Given the same-sex couples I know, I'd say definitely that that's a bunch of baloney. Many of them are middle-aged women who were in closeted relationships for a long time, but now can be out in the open. As with most middle-aged couples, I imagine has both a less frequent and perhaps more integrated role in their overall relationship of love, support, and companionship. I'd can't begin to imagine where you think you're getting the data to support that statement that most of them are in it for the sex alone.hazel
May 7, 2019
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Hazel @ 65, > Same-sex couples love each other in the same way you love your spouse,... I'm not convinced it is the same sort of relationship as what I have. Mean relationship longevity is not the same for one thing, nor do I think it will reach parity. People who do not embrace marriage in its most strict form do not seem to take other aspects of it (like the commitment aspect) as seriously. For the most part, they seem to be in it for the sex alone. Plus if they are not reconciled to their Maker, then their relationship has no spiritual/supernatural component whatsoever (despite what they may be telling themselves in their churches.) BB @ 79, >But of these 23%, how many end up in a long term committed relationship? About half of the ones who are single today will, but that number will drop to none (of the 23%) a generation from now. That is a tectonic cultural change that we have no clue how to cope with.EDTA
May 7, 2019
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KF
BB, regrettably, you epitomise why we are going to learn some very hard lessons from the superbugs.
I get it. Homosexuals, people who enjoy oral sex (Guilty), teens who have sex before marriage (guilty again) and masturbators (oops, I am blushing) are solely responsible for all of the antibiotic resistant bacteria out there and the downfall of civilization. Yet, in spite of my depraved life, I have never had an STD, an antibiotic resistant infection or an unwanted pregnancy. I will let you in on my secret. Condoms, birth control pills and serial monogamy. In short, all of the risk management tools that are available to us if we are not prevented from accessing them.Brother Brian
May 7, 2019
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kf, your post at 15 is pretty much unreadable: why do you keep referring to it? From the beginning the point being argued has been that one main reasons for the decline in church membership has been that churches have clung to judgments about things that the general populace have decided they don't believe in, such as homosexuality and sexual practices. I would say that puritanical and apocalyptic thinking such as you express, in the extreme, could be stated as a more general reason for the decline in church membership.hazel
May 7, 2019
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Hmmm, UD atheistic trolls bemoaning fictitious and imaginary legislation on oral sex, whilst the real legislation actually passed by the legislative left is completely insane. Why am I not surprised?
Christian women and radical feminists unite to oppose the Equality Act – May 06, 2019 https://www.realclearpolitics.com/articles/2019/05/06/feminists_conservatives_join_forces_to_oppose_equality_act_140261.html
bornagain77
May 7, 2019
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KF, I think the issue for me is that you're dropping vague hints here and there rather than stating clear policy proposals. Can you at least cite work by public health experts who support "regulating" oral sex?daveS
May 7, 2019
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F/N: Observe, about a hundred comments later after 15 above, and we are still seeing distractive, evasive, shoot at the messenger tactics. That should tell us a lot about what is really going on and the sort of voyage of folly our civilisation has embarked upon. This will not end well; Rom 1 is dead right. KFkairosfocus
May 7, 2019
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BB, regrettably, you epitomise why we are going to learn some very hard lessons from the superbugs. Shooting at the messenger is not going to alter the facts. And BTW, as you brought such up, for cause restaurants and groceries as well as agro industries are pretty stringently regulated under law, precisely because of the dangers. There aren't entire movements undermining that. In the case of Caribbean islands, the difference between current tourist paradises and the tropical disease death traps of old has been over a century of pretty serious, sustained public health -- the hidden secret behind tourism. Pull that effort back enough and things would spin out of control so fast it is frightening. We all need to learn the lesson that the superbugs have basically won their war with the drugs industry -- that's a game changer. KFkairosfocus
May 7, 2019
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Hazel
Good points, BB. I am looking for some consistent argument from kf, but this business about disease isn’t it.
I agree. I enjoy many of my interactions with KF on various subjects, but I don’t see how this isn’t simply his gut reaction (and revulsion) to any sexual activity that he doesn’t approve of. Hopefully he will provide a better argument.Brother Brian
May 7, 2019
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Christian women and radical feminists unite to oppose the Equality Act - May 06, 2019 "What threat could possibly unite radical feminists and Christian women conservatives? Clearly this is a historic and momentous occasion when women on the left and right have put aside differences to come together on behalf of all women. The Women’s Liberation Front (WoLF) and Concerned Women for America (CWA) recently joined hands to oppose the misnamed and insidious Equality Act. It’s true that we disagree about many (maybe even most) issues. But there is no doubt that American women are in jeopardy of losing hard-fought-for rights. The Equality Act just passed the House Judiciary Committee last week, and it threatens to erase protections for women — protections that benefit women and society as a whole. Legislative and policy “reforms” proposed in this dangerous bill will lead to blatant violations of our safety, privacy, and dignity. Under this bill, men and boys will take away women’s small business grants and hard-won spots on sports teams; they will be allowed to live in women’s domestic violence shelters and use our locker rooms.... For a male who identifies as female, he doesn’t even have to change his name, the way he dresses, or see a doctor or counselor. If the Equality Act passes, he’ll also be able to sue you for violating his civil rights if you persist in seeing him for the man that he is." https://www.realclearpolitics.com/articles/2019/05/06/feminists_conservatives_join_forces_to_oppose_equality_act_140261.html
To repeat: although many on the left, regardless of their lack of scientific evidence, will often claim that homosexuals are irredeemably ‘born that way’, in direct contradiction to that claim, it is also often claimed by the very same people that gender is not based in biology but is a choice. And as Jordan Peterson pointed out, this direct contradiction in claims is “completely insane”:
Jordan Peterson: Gender ideology is ‘completely insane’ – March 23, 2018 (LifeSiteNews) – “The LGBT lobby is dead set against anything that smacks of conversion therapy, the idea that you could convert someone who has a primarily homosexual identity to someone who has a primarily heterosexual [identity],” he told Trussell. “It’s illegal in Ontario and in many [American] states now to even attempt that. But if there’s complete independence between the biology, the identity, the expression and the sexual preference, then there’s no reason to assume that it can’t be changed.” Bolstering his argument, Peterson mentioned the ultimate conclusion of gender ideology, namely that gender is totally fluid. Some activists teach that a person can be a man one day and a woman the next, or even change sexual identity from minute to minute. “If it’s that fluid, and it’s only dependent on subjective choice, which is what the legislation now insists, then why can’t that argument be used by conservatives to say exactly the same thing about sexual preference?” https://www.lifesitenews.com/news/jordan-peterson-gender-theory-has-become-unquestionable-doctrine-thats-comp
bornagain77
May 7, 2019
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Good points, BB. I am looking for some consistent argument from kf, but this business about disease isn't it.hazel
May 7, 2019
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KF
BB, notice that we have basically lost the war with the bugs.
I don’t quite follow the logic. Because of indiscriminate and inconsistent use of antibiotics several resistant strains of bacteria have arisen. Almost sounds like evolution. But because of this problem we shouldn’t put any legal restrictions on congregating in groups, shaking hands, going to work when we are sick, eating in restaurants, going to hospitals, taking flights and cruises. Yet you want us to take legal action against homosexual acts, premarital sex and oral sex. I’m interested to see how you fit masturbation into your equation. An act that has no risk of disease and causes no harm.Brother Brian
May 7, 2019
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PS/ a major source of potential disease infection is eating in restaurants. Do we ban restaurants because of the risk? No, we use hygiene protocols, latex gloves, masks, etc. to manage the risk. There is something else made of latex that is available to manage risk. It’s name escapes me for the moment.Brother Brian
May 7, 2019
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BB, notice that we have basically lost the war with the bugs. I was asked on a specific matter and pointed out the significance of its vector characteristics in a superbug world. Looks like we are hell-bent on learning from the superbugs. KFkairosfocus
May 7, 2019
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KF
BB, did you notice the break-down of antibiotics that is in progress globally?
Antibiotic resistance has been around as long as antibiotics have. And, actually longer than that as most of the early antibiotics were derived from nature. But this isn’t limited to STDs. There are plenty of antibiotic resistant diseases out there. Many contracted through aerosols (ie, being close to other humans). Might I suggest that we ban all events in which humans congregat. Sporting events, weddings, churches, etc. Many Asian people reduce the risk of infection by wearing breathing masks. Much like many people reduce the risk of STDs by wearing condoms.Brother Brian
May 7, 2019
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Cone collars until you get married. And even then you can only take them off when you are @ home. :cool:ET
May 7, 2019
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BB, did you notice the break-down of antibiotics that is in progress globally? Think about how a wide range of behaviours will need to change when superbugs take over. KFkairosfocus
May 7, 2019
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I Thought Christians Were Stupid Bigots By Rachel Gilson - April 21, 2019 Excerpt: Then, as I was about 16, I started to understand my sexuality more. I’d already had some sexual relationships with men—well, high-school boys, really. But as I started to be attracted to women and then act on those attractions, I was like, ‘Oh, this is where my heart is. The reason stuff with boys felt out of place was because it’s not my place.’ I gradually started to own that identity more and more. I knew from the culture that Christianity was against homosexuality. So by the time I was 18, I had concluded that Christians were both stupid and bigots.”,,, ,,, she had a dawning realization which she describes as: “Oh my goodness—God is real, and I am in a lot of trouble. Because not only is he real; he is perfect, and I am incredibly imperfect.” But there was an element of hope there too, she says: “I understood for the first time that Jesus had come to place himself as a kind of wall between God’s wrath—his right and fair anger at my sin—and me. I knew that if I trusted in Jesus, I was going to be saved.",,, How could you just give up such an important part of your identity, something that had been so fundamental to your sense of self for so long? “Well,” Rachel says slowly, “it would definitely be tragic to give up something that valuable for something that is less valuable. And it would also be tragic to pretend like this real part of my life, my sexuality, is less than it is. But Jesus is more precious than even that very deep part of me, because of his great love. And…” she pauses for a moment with a smile, “that sounds really weird if you’re not a Christian, right? But the Bible talks about a Christian’s relationship with Christ being something we should be able to die for because it’s so precious. And celibacy and singleness are not death,” she says frankly. “Not having sex or not experiencing a romantic relationship is a severe thing, but I’d be willing to give up even more than that. In fact, giving up things is a very normal part of the Christian life. There are lots of people who give up sex, who give up their bodies, who give up their money. And you don’t really do it out of obligation—you do it out of love. You’re captured by Christ’s love, and it drives you to do things that you never thought possible before, because Jesus gives you this sense of security and purpose and an ultimate destination.” Rachel concludes, “The reason that most people aren’t Christians is either because they think that Jesus isn’t really real or that he isn’t really worth it. But Jesus is both—really real and really worth it. Yes, I gave up some major things and some significant sexual relationships—but God has heaped upon me beautiful and good things in their place.” https://churchleaders.com/outreach-missions/outreach-missions-articles/348951-i-thought-stupid-christians-were-stupid-bigots.html
bornagain77
May 7, 2019
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KF
DS, I suggest, sufficiency needs to be set in light of what is beginning to hit us with antibiotics.
Between 1999 and 2010 deaths due to STDs in the US (primarily HIV and HPV related deaths) decreased from 5.3 to 2.7 per 1000,000. I haven't read anywhere that fewer people were having sex over this period. To put it into perspective, during the same period deaths dues to car accidents decreased from 15.3 to 10.7 per 100,000. For further perspective, in the US the death toll due to gun deaths was 12 per 100,000. The number of activities and behaviours that carry an associated risk are uncountable. We manage the risks, we don't simply make the ones associated with things you think are repulsive, and bring happiness to others, illegal.Brother Brian
May 7, 2019
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KF, You seem reluctant to give a forthright answer. I'm going to guess that yes, you do believe oral sex should be regulated. Perhaps oral sex between men should be illegal, as it was in the famous Georgia case which led to Bowers vs. Hardwick.daveS
May 7, 2019
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So should oral sex be illegal? Yes, it is one thing, in some circumstances, that can lead to disease and contribute to the evolution of antibiotic resistant bacteria, but can it be singled out as illegal? And kf, you write, "Mix in a porn-enslaved male population with addictive, promiscuous habits, prostitution, abuse, child exploitation etc." How about all the normal people with a good sexual relationship that enjoy oral sex?hazel
May 7, 2019
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The Church attempts to guide people. The final Judgement is not theirs. And leaving the Church does not get you a pass.ET
May 7, 2019
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DS, I suggest, sufficiency needs to be set in light of what is beginning to hit us with antibiotics. I am seeing that for example, we excrete traces which go into sewage thence wastewater treatment plants -- as in oodles of bacteria. Resistance pops up, and horizontal gene transfer spreads far and wide in the environment. Then blend in all the gory details about other vectors for super-bug infection. Toss in viri and yeasts etc for good measure. HIV was only the harbinger. Think, then, about a post antibiotic world where any scratch may be fatal and blend in how small a scratch may be. Mix in a porn-enslaved male population with addictive, promiscuous habits, prostitution, abuse, child exploitation etc. What do you think we are going to see after the first couple of epidemics? Then, ask yourself what we need now to head such off (given, we are already at the threshold). And BTW, mix in other possible vectors. I remember, as a kid, being warned not to touch any surfaces in public spaces such as stair railings and the like, due to TB. KFkairosfocus
May 7, 2019
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