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Remedial Logic for Materialists

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Materialists have a lot of stock responses they use to distract themselves from the explanatory poverty of the “answers” their faith commitments require them to spew out in response to obvious objections.  Consider the materialist responses to my last post, Quashing Materialist Appeals to Magic (Again).

Briefly, I argued that unless materialists can provide some sort of an explanation of the process by which the physical electro-chemical properties of the brain result in the mental properties of the mind, then merely invoking “emergence” has exactly the same explanatory power as invoking “magic.”  I quoted atheists Thomas Nagel and Elizabeth Liddle, who concur.

Now to the materialist’s stock answer (courtesy of Popperian):  Barry, you have committed the Fallacy of Composition.  The fallacy of composition arises when one infers that something must be true of the whole from the fact that it is true of some part of the whole.  For example, hydrogen atoms are not “wet” and oxygen atoms are not “wet,” but if one inferred from the non-wetness of individual hydrogen and oxygen atoms that a particular way of combining and organizing those atoms would also be non-wet, one would be wrong.  Organize the atoms in a particular way and you get water, which is wet in a way that none of its constituent parts are.  In other words, “wetness” is an emergent property of the whole that is not a property of any of its parts, and if you had drawn an inference about the wetness of the whole from the non-wetness of the parts you would have been wrong.  In the same way, carbon atoms and the other physical components of the brain are not conscious, but when those parts are organized in a certain way, consciousness emerges.

No Popperian.  I have not committed the fallacy of composition.  Instead, you have committed the fallacy of false analogy.  The process of analogical inference involves noting the shared properties of two or more things, and from this basis inferring that they also share some further property.  The structure or form may be generalized like so:

  1. P and Q are similar in respect to properties a and b.
  2. P has been observed to have further property c.
  3. Therefore, Q probably has property c also.

A person commits the fallacy of false analogy when he makes a faulty inference from analogy.  And Popperian’s inference is faulty.  Let’s see why this is so.  Here is Popparian’s argument from analogy:

  1. Water and the brain are similar as to the following properties:

(a) Water molecules are made of parts; the brain is made of parts.

(b) The constituent parts of water molecules are organized in a particular way; the constituent parts of the brain are organized in a particular way.

  1. Water molecules have been observed to have a further property, namely the emergent property “wetness” resulting from the organization of its parts even though none of those parts exhibits that property.
  1. Therefore, the brain probably also has an emergent property, namely consciousness, resulting from the organization of its parts even though none of its parts exhibits that property.

An analogy is false if the similarities are not relevant to the conclusion.  In this case, the similarities are completely, totally, and utterly irrelevant to the conclusion.

We know why water is wet.  From Wikipedia:

Water is the chemical substance with chemical formula H 2O one molecule of water has two hydrogen atoms covalently bonded to a single oxygen atom.  Water is a tasteless, odorless liquid at ambient temperature and pressure, and appears colorless in small quantities, although it has its own intrinsic very light blue hue. Ice also appears colorless, and water vapor is essentially invisible as a gas.

Water is primarily a liquid under standard conditions, which is not predicted from its relationship to other analogous hydrides of the oxygen family in the periodic table, which are gases such as hydrogen sulfide. The elements surrounding oxygen in the periodic table, nitrogen, fluorine, phosphorus, sulfur and chlorine, all combine with hydrogen to produce gases under standard conditions. The reason that water forms a liquid is that oxygen is more electronegative than all of these elements with the exception of fluorine. Oxygen attracts electrons much more strongly than hydrogen, resulting in a net positive charge on the hydrogen atoms, and a net negative charge on the oxygen atom. The presence of a charge on each of these atoms gives each water molecule a net dipole moment. Electrical attraction between water molecules due to this dipole pulls individual molecules closer together, making it more difficult to separate the molecules and therefore raising the boiling point. This attraction is known as hydrogen bonding.

In summary, we know why water has the emergent property of wetness (i.e., it is a liquid at certain temperatures even though its constituent parts would not be a liquid at those same temperatures).  We know, that is, that the parts of water are causally adequate to account for the properties of the whole, including the emergent property “wetness,” and we know exactly why that is the case.   If we had reason to know that the parts of the brain were causally adequate to result in consciousness, then that analogy would be apt.  But we don’t.  In fact, just exactly the opposite is true.   We don’t have the first idea how, even in principle, the physical properties of the brain are causally adequate to account for the mental properties of the mind.

Therefore, the analogy to the wetness of water gets us exactly nowhere, because we simply have no reason (other than materialist metaphysical faith commitments) to believe that the wetness of the water is similar in relevant respects to the consciousness of the brain.  In fact, we have good reason to believe that the physical can ever be, even in principal, causally adequate to result in the mental, far less actual knowledge of how that is the case, as we do with water.

Popperian’s analogy gets us no further than demonstrating that that emergence is possible under certain conditions for certain systems.  But no one disputes that.  The question is not whether emergence is possible.  Of course it is.  The question is whether emergence occurred.  And merely pointing out that emergence is possible gets us nowhere with respect to the question of whether emergence actually occurred.  With respect to that question, Popperian has not given us the slightest hint of a nod toward an explanation of how that could have happened, and there are good reasons to believe it could not.

Not only has Popperian committed the fallacy of false analogy, but he also has committed the fallacy of “affirming the consequent.” This error takes the following form:

If P, then Q.

Q.

Therefore, P.

The reason this is false is because there may be other causes of P besides Q, as the following example demonstrates.

If it is raining the streets are wet.

The streets are wet.

Therefore it is raining.

Why is this reasoning invalid?  Because while it is certainly the case that if it is raining the streets will be wet; the converse is not also true.  The streets can be wet when there is not a cloud in the sky (as for example when a fire hydrant breaks).

Here is how Popperain affirms the consequent when he invokes emergence to account for consciousness:

If there are emergent properties, the whole has properties that cannot be reduced to the properties of its individual physical components.

The mind/brain system has properties that cannot be reduced to the properties of its individual physical components (i.e., consciousness).

Therefore, the mind/brain system exhibits emergent properties.

Why is this affirming the consequent?  Because there could be another reason besides emergence to account for consciousness, namely, the existence of an immaterial mind.

Popperian, the streets are wet.  That does not necessarily mean it is raining.  Write that down.

Comments
John Sanford, a leading expert in plant genetics, examines Polyploidy (Gene/Chromosome Duplication) fallacies in Appendix 4 of his book "Genetic Entropy and the mystery of the Genome".
"What about polyploidy plants? It has been claimed that since some plants are polyploidy (having double the normal chromosome numbers), this proves that duplication must be beneficial and must increase information. Polyploidy was my special area of study during my Ph.D. thesis. Interestingly, it makes a great deal of difference how a polyploid arises. If somatic (body) cells are treated with the chemical called colchicine, cell division is disrupted , resulting in chromosome doubling - but no new information arises. The plants that result are almost always very stunted, morphologically distorted, and generally sterile. The reason for this should be obvious - the plants must waste twice as much energy to make twice as much DNA, but with no new genetic information! The nucleus is also roughly twice as large, disrupting proper cell shape and cell size. In fact, the plants actually have less information than before, because a great deal of the information which controls gene regulation depends on gene dosage (copy number). Loss of regulatory control is loss of information. This is really the same reason why an extra chromosome causes Down's Syndrome. Thousands of genes become improperly improperly regulated, because of extra genic copies. If somatic polyploidization is consistently deleterious, why are there any polyploidy plants at all - such as potatoes? The reason is that polyploidy can arise by a different process - which is called sexual polyploidization.This happens when a unreduced sperm unites with a unreduced egg. In this special case, all of the information within the two parents is combined into the offspring, and there can be a net gain of information within that single individual. But there is no more total information within the population. the information within the two parents was simply pooled. In such a case we are seeing pooling of information, but not any new information.",,, "in some special cases, the extra level of gene backup within a polyploidy can outweigh the problems of disrupted gene regulation and reduced fertility - and so can result in a type of "net gain". But such a "net gain" is more accurately described as a net reduction in the rate of degeneration." John Sanford - Genetic Entropy & The Mystery of the Genome - pages 191-192 - Dr. John Sanford has been a Cornell University Professor for more that 25 years (being semi-retired since 1998). He received his Ph. D. from the University of Wisconsin in the area of plant breeding and plant genetics.,,, His most significant scientific contributions involved three inventions - the biolistic ("gene gun") process, pathogen-derived resistance, and genetic immunization. Most of the transgenic crops grown in the world today were genetically engineered using the gene gun technology developed by John and his collaborators. Double Your Pleasure: What Exactly Can You Get from Polyploidy? - October 10, 2014 Excerpt: "Stebbins viewed polyploid species as genetically depauperate with limited evolutionary potential. A new polyploidy species was envisioned as forming via a single polyploidization event and would therefore exhibit a high degree of genetic uniformity across individuals. Following this model of formation, an allopolyploid would exhibit no homologous, or segregating, variation, only homeologous (nonsegregating) variation. Furthermore, if a mutation were to arise in the polyploid, its effect would be masked by either the presence of a homeologous locus (in an allotetraploid) or multiple alleles (in an autopolyploid). Although not impossible, the fixation of a new mutation is much slower in a polyploid than in its diploid parents. Stebbins (1971 , p. 127) correctly noted that "...the large amount of gene duplication dilutes the effects of new mutations... polyploids have great difficulty evolving truly new adaptive gene complexes" and that "...chromosome doubling will most often have a retarding effect on evolutionary change via mutation, genetic recombination, and selection." Furthermore, this buffering effect of multiple genomes may extend to the origins of morphological variation in a polyploid (Stebbins, 1950 , 1971 [pp. 147-148]): "Very often, even in complexes on which the basis of phytogeographical evidence must be regarded as hundreds of thousands or even millions of years old, the range of morphological variability encompassed by all of the tetraploids is less than the total range of that found among the diploids...",,, http://www.evolutionnews.org/2014/10/double_your_ple090311.html
Dr. Wolf-Ekkehard Lönnig, (retired) Senior Scientist (Biology) at the Max Planck Institute for Plant Breeding Research in Cologne, Germany, has also done extensive research on plant breeding and is also, to put it mildly, unimpressed with Darwinian claims of speciation:
Peer-Reviewed Research Paper on Plant Biology Favorably Cites Intelligent Design and Challenges Darwinian Evolution - Casey Luskin December 29, 2010 Excerpt: Many of these researchers also raise the question (among others), why — even after inducing literally billions of induced mutations and (further) chromosome rearrangements — all the important mutation breeding programs have come to an end in the Western World instead of eliciting a revolution in plant breeding, either by successive rounds of selective “micromutations” (cumulative selection in the sense of the modern synthesis), or by “larger mutations” … and why the law of recurrent variation is endlessly corroborated by the almost infinite repetition of the spectra of mutant phenotypes in each and any new extensive mutagenesis experiment instead of regularly producing a range of new systematic species… (Wolf-Ekkehard Lönnig, “Mutagenesis in Physalis pubescens L. ssp. floridana: Some Further Research on Dollo’s Law and the Law of Recurrent Variation,” Floriculture and Ornamental Biotechnology Vol. 4 (Special Issue 1): 1-21 (December 2010).) http://www.evolutionnews.org/2010/12/peer-reviewed_research_paper_o042191.html Dr. Wolf-Ekkehard Lönnig, (retired) Senior Scientist (Biology), Max Planck Institute for Plant Breeding Research, Emeritus, Cologne, Germany.
bornagain77
August 20, 2015
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Peter, I would urge you to read just one textbook on evolution carefully and check whether it uses the fallacious reasoning you describe. In contrast, take a look at this page which outlines the hypothetico-deductive method. You will see that it does not commit the fallacy of affirming the consequent.daveS
August 20, 2015
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Zachriel, I had a feeling your were lying through your teeth at 52. Thanks for confirming it. Barry Arrington
August 20, 2015
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Peter: There is no evidence of one species being morphed into another in the lab. Speciation is typically a process, not an event, a process that can take millions of years. Because it is normally such a slow process, we would not expect to directly observe speciation. We would expect to see varying degrees of reproductive isolation, and this we do see. In any case, speciation in plants has been observed through polyploidy.Zachriel
August 20, 2015
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Zachriel @everywhere Your arguments are vacuous. You will never learn. So it is pointless trying to discuss evolution with you.Peter
August 20, 2015
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DaveS @49 What I have stated applies to every textbook on evolution I have seen. There is no evidence of one species being morphed into another in the lab. No one has ever seen it either. So there is no proof of evolution. The evidence I have seen is of the type I described. Showing dots on a line is not the same as connecting the dots to make a line. I would be hard pressed to argue for a God designer if the universe always existed, as the leading scientists believed before the Big Bang was discovered. How could you say God created the universe if the universe always existed. It would contradict the bible and critically weaken the theistic argument. But theists don't have to worry about that because science supports the Bible.Peter
August 20, 2015
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Barry Arrington: are you in favor of allowing Planned Parenthood to chop up little unborn babies and distribute their pieces like meat as part of their fetal tissue donation program? You always overload your questions, which is why straight answers are rarely possible. When a woman decides on a legal abortion, donating the tissue for medicine is appropriate.Zachriel
August 20, 2015
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I see, the fig leaf you give yourself is calling it a "fetal tissue donation program." Well, let's explore that. Zachriel are you in favor of allowing Planned Parenthood to chop up little unborn babies and distribute their pieces like meat as part of their fetal tissue donation program?Barry Arrington
August 20, 2015
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Barry Arrington: In that particular video they are talking about a particular service and selling a particular product. Actually, that's not clear from context, but we did include abortion in our comment. They want to break-even on their fetal tissue donation program (which is only in a few states). Barry Arrington: Tell us what you think they are selling that they want to break even on. It's not clear they are selling anything, but do expect their costs to be covered on their fetal tissue donation program.Zachriel
August 20, 2015
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Z @ 58. Here we go again. Obvious evasion. Yes they do provide several services. In that particular video they are talking about a particular service and selling a particular product. Please do not evade again. It is unseemly and embarrassing. Tell us what you think they are selling that they want to break even on.Barry Arrington
August 20, 2015
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Barry Arrington: What is it that you think they are selling that they want to break even on”? Planned Parenthood provides a wide variety of services, including contraception, screening, and abortion.Zachriel
August 20, 2015
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OK Z @ 55: What is it that you think they are selling that they want to break even on"?Barry Arrington
August 20, 2015
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Voice in the Ceiling: if you are so opposed to it, why was it so damn hard to drag an unambiguous answer out of you. Zachriel @31: We support current laws which criminalize the sale of human tissue. Zachriel @36: NoZachriel
August 20, 2015
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Barry Arrington: In other words, what is it that they are selling that they want to “do a little better than break even on”?
“I think for affiliates, at the end of the day, they’re a nonprofit, they just don’t want to — they want to break even. And if they can do a little better than break even, and do so in a way that seems reasonable, they’re happy to do that,” Nucatola says. But immediately after this statement, Nucatola goes on to say: “Really their bottom line is, they want to break even. Every penny they save is just pennies they give to another patient. To provide a service the patient wouldn’t get.” Planned Parenthood told us that she may have been referring to more general operations of the clinics. http://www.factcheck.org/2015/07/unspinning-the-planned-parenthood-video/
Zachriel
August 20, 2015
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eigenstate @ 50:
People should have the liberty to do as they like . . .
And if what they "like" is chopping unborn babies into little pieces and selling the pieces like meat, then eigenstate is all for their liberty to do that. Like I said, evil.Barry Arrington
August 20, 2015
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Zachriel, When the Planned Parenthood reps are negotiating price in those videos, what exactly do you think they are selling? In other words, what is it that they are selling that they want to "do a little better than break even on"?Barry Arrington
August 20, 2015
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Voice in the Ceiling</b.: Liar and coward. You wrote @ 36: ” No, we are not in favor, it’s not legal.” PP (and you ) assert it is legal; therefore, by incorporating your answer at 36 you leave yourself that dodge.
Your misreading doesn't constitute a lie. We'll restate it. No, we are not in favor. By the bye, it's not legal, and we support the law in this regard. UDEditors, if you are so opposed to it, why was it so damn hard to drag an unambiguous answer out of you. Here, let us show you how it is done: Q. Are you in favor of chopping up little babies and selling the pieces like meat? A. No.Zachriel
August 20, 2015
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"It’s not something I would personally choose, or advocate as a course of action" eigenstate, Can you explain to us why you would not advocate abortion as a course of action? Andrewasauber
August 20, 2015
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@Zachriel
No, we are not in favor.
Nor am I, of course, but that won't get in Barry's way of just claiming whatever he likes. I do not advocate cheating on a spouse, but I fully support a culture and legal framework where that is not a crime. People should have the liberty to do as they like, even if it's actions I do not support or advocate. So long as it doesn't impinge on the rights of other persons, they should have liberty to act as they choose. Same thing with abortion. It's not something I would personally choose, or advocate as a course of action, but I fully support the liberty of others to choose as they see fit. So long as it doesn't impinge on the rights of other persons, and I don't see that it does, they should be free to proceed as they choose. To deny that choice to woman, on the other hand, WOULD be impinging on her right to privacy and liberty, to control her own person. Barry's not the least bit principled in representing the views of critics -- his Christian ethics on display for us all to be inspired by -- and I think anyone with more than a passing familiarity with his approach to this understands the value of his characterizations. But for the record, I don't advocate for the practice of abortion as a practice. I'd not choose it and welcome its decline in frequency in our culture. I do proudly advocate for the freedom of others to determine their chooses and actions for themselves, though.eigenstate
August 20, 2015
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Peter @ 38, Do you have a reference, such as a standard textbook, which lays out the syllogism you gave? I don't think you've described the reasoning correctly. There is certainly no deductive proof that evolution is true, and I don't recall ever seeing a reputable source claiming so, which is why I'm asking for a published example.
If as you say it is impossible to rule out all the explanations then that means evolution is untestable, and therefore not science.
Eh? You can always appeal to an omnipotent designer to account for any set of observations, so it's never possible to rule out all competing explanations for anything. And actually, this is a problem for ID---the existence of an omnipotent designer is an unfalsifiable proposition.daveS
August 20, 2015
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{snipping Barry Arrington's ad hominem} Barry Arrington: Z refuses to answer the question. We directly answered your question. Barry Arrington: Are you, like eigenstate, in favor of chopping up little unborn babies and selling their parts like meat even if that practice turns out to be perfectly legal? Zachriel @36: No, we are not in favor UDEditors: Liar and coward. You wrote @ 36: " No, we are not in favor, it’s not legal." PP (and you ) assert it is legal; therefore, by incorporating your answer at 36 you leave yourself that dodge. Barry: Zachriel, are you in favor of Nazis putting Jews in ovens. No, we are not in favor.Zachriel
August 20, 2015
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If Zachriel and I had had this exchange in 1943 it would have gone something like this: Barry: Zachriel, are you in favor of Nazis putting Jews in ovens. Zachriel: If the Nazis are doing something illegal under German law they should be prosecuted. Barry: Non-responsive Z. Killing Jews is defined as legal in German laws. The question is whether you are in favor of it even it if it perfectly legal. Zachriel: They deny doing anything illegal. Barry: They admit to killing Jews. You have evaded the question again. Zachriel: Well, I certainly believe that if they are doing something illegal under German law they should be prosecuted.Barry Arrington
August 20, 2015
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Does everyone see what Zachriel is doing at 39? It is really quite despicable. The question (see 29):
Are you, like eigenstate, in favor of chopping up little unborn babies and selling their parts like meat even if that practice turns out to be perfectly legal?
Z refuses to answer the question. He keeps saying if Planned Parenthood did something illegal they should be prosecuted. Coward.Barry Arrington
August 20, 2015
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asauber: Why would that be when they claim to be non-religious? Where did we make that claim? asauber: So have countless other criminals re: their crimes. Sure, but Barry Arrington claimed otherwise. In any case, if they broke the law, they should be prosecuted.Zachriel
August 20, 2015
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Peter: But there is no proof one species morphed into another. See @42Zachriel
August 20, 2015
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Zachriel @12 Yes, the hypothesis is stated. But there is no proof one species morphed into another. You are assuming away what you are trying to prove. The fossil records don't have to show ascent. I am sure that there could be any number of orders. That is why a chimpanzee is used, because it fits the theory, but did not exist before man. Not evidence, just speculation. If anything the complexity of dna should tell you that the chances of evolution just creating a species is beyond absurd.Peter
August 20, 2015
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Peter: It is stating an hypothesis. It is not proving the hypothesis. In science, one doesn't prove a hypothesis, but supports it. Peter: There can be many explanations for the fossil record: God did it, aliens did it, time travelers did it, evolution did it, or some other force. None of those, other than branching descent, entail the details of the fossil record, so they would not be suitable scientific hypotheses. There can be many explanations for planetary orbits: Angels do it, aliens do it, time travelers do it, gravity does it, or some other force. But of those, only gravitational theory entails specific empirical predictions that are subject to testing. Peter: This is deductive reasoning. Science isn't merely deduction, but hypothetico-deduction. Peter: If as you say it is impossible to rule out all the explanations then that means evolution is untestable, and therefore not science. No. That just means you don't know what it means to test a scientific hypothesis. Given the hypothesis, deduce the entailments, then test those. The more ways you can test a hypothesis, the stronger your confidence, but no scientific hypothesis is considered proven. They are all held tentatively, not matter how strongly supported.Zachriel
August 20, 2015
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"Actually, they’ve denied it" So have countless other criminals re: their crimes. Come on Zach, what gives with you and abortion? Andrewasauber
August 20, 2015
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"Why in the world would you claim it has not happened when they admit it?" I'm curious as to how peoples like Zach become so devoted to the idea of abortion. They hold onto it with religious fanaticism. Why would that be when they claim to be non-religious? What is it about abortion that demands their loyalty? Andrewasauber
August 20, 2015
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Barry Arrington: Planned Parenthood admits to selling pieces of the unborn babies they’ve chopped up. Actually, they've denied it, even in the surreptitious tapes. But if they broke the law, they should be prosecutedZachriel
August 20, 2015
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