Remember how endless cycles of universe were supposed to show that the universe has no real beginning?

_{Denyse O'Leary

January 16, 2022

Cosmology, Intelligent Design, Multiverse}

Share: Facebook; Twitter; LinkedIn; Flipboard; Print; Email

As with Penrose’s model, Steinhardt and Ijjas’s model faces the philosophical problems of an infinite universe, and it must rely on a large number of questionable assumptions. Their effort to construct a model to explain the universe is perfectly reasonable, so I have no criticism of their sincerity or their competence. Yet the conclusion that the universe had a beginning is far more parsimonious and consistent with the evidence. The main reason for the resistance against it from many in the scientific community is its philosophical and theological implications.
Brian Miller, “Paul Steinhardt’s Cyclical Cosmology Fails to Challenge a Cosmic Beginning” at Evolution News (January 12, 2022)

The paper is open access.

While we are here, wouldn’t an infinite universe include the possibility that it doesn’t exist? Playing with infinity is playing a dangerous game.

There is a good article by Robert J. Marks on the topic of infinite parallel universes here.

Comments

I’ll repeat - an infinite of anything physical is a self contradictory absurdity.
Playing with infinity is playing a dangerous game
Any thing infinite means that every possible outcome must exist. If you disagree, then explain what cannot exists. This means that some entity in this infinity has unlimited intelligence and not only is its intelligence unlimited or infinite, there must be an infinite number of such intelligences. If anyone disagrees, explain your reasoning or else I’ll assume all agree and an infinite universe cannot exist. An infinite universe is self refuting. jerry_{January 17, 2022
January
01
Jan
17
17
2022
05:50 AM
5
05
50
AM
PDT}

EDTA: Nothing is not a possible thing. "No thing" is a self contradiction, a form of A = not-A, or the thing one is referring to is a not-thing. KF said:
EDTA, having nothing (material) in it and being a genuine utter nothingness ..
Unfortunately for KF's argument, we have not found any "matter" as of yet in this universe, and information is not "nothing." A universe doesn't require anything material to exist within it at all.William J Murray_{January 17, 2022
January
01
Jan
17
17
2022
03:33 AM
3
03
33
AM
PDT}

Great, now I'm banned from: https://uncommondescent.com/intelligent-design/are-mutations-really-random/ I got one comment in to Bornagain77 just now but I wasn't allowed to post a comment replying to Lt Com Data. Sorry about that, it's not my fault. I'm not going to spread comments all over the forum so when I get banned from a thread I'm leaving that conversation; not out of choice.JVL_{January 17, 2022
January
01
Jan
17
17
2022
02:56 AM
2
02
56
AM
PDT}

Off topic, but kf you now have have 2 l & FP 48i's. Although this many just be another manifestation of an endless cycle of universes, where a wheel has come off.Bob O'H_{January 17, 2022
January
01
Jan
17
17
2022
01:17 AM
1
01
17
AM
PDT}

EDTA, having nothing (material) in it and being a genuine utter nothingness -- non-being -- are different. Were there ever utter nothing, such having no causal capacity it would forever obtain. That is, there would be no world of any kind. That a world is, implies something of necessary being, world framework nature with capability to be source of worlds always was and -- per necessity of being -- always will be. That opens up a whole domain of possibilities. KFkairosfocus_{January 16, 2022
January
01
Jan
16
16
2022
10:27 PM
10
10
27
PM
PDT}

Sev, >Could there be an empty universe? Isn’t it like saying there is absolutely nothing. No, those are two different things. Not sure what an "empty universe" means; only News can say for sure. She might have been suggesting that in a multiverse, one of the universes might have had nothing in it, which is an interesting possibility. On the other hand, hypothesizing that there could have been nothing is another claim: It might have been the case that nothing had ever existed: no universe, no multiverse, no matter or energy of any kind, so space, no fields--nothing.EDTA_{January 16, 2022
January
01
Jan
16
16
2022
09:49 PM
9
09
49
PM
PDT}

You haven’t been keeping up with origin of universe theories, Seversky. Explanations of the origin of the universe commonly re-define “nothing” as “something,” for example, ‘gravity’, or an ‘unstable quantum field’. In any case, you are confusing a universe with a container, in this case a pocket. But a pocket has dimensions, an empty universe has no dimensions in this theory. It’s there all right because it lies in one of the sets. Sorry, but I can’t think of the assumptions needed for an empty universe. Just guessing, because branes have been mentioned, there could well be submanifolds of six-dimensional shapes. But keep asking rhetorical questions.Belfast_{January 16, 2022
January
01
Jan
16
16
2022
06:36 PM
6
06
36
PM
PDT}

You haven’t been keeping up with origin of universe theories, Seversky. Explanations of the origin of the universe commonly re-define “nothing” as “something,” for example, ‘gravity’, or an ‘unstable quantum field’. In any case, you are confusing a universe with a container, in this case a pocket. But a pocket has dimensions, an empty universe has no dimensions in this theory. It’s there all right because it lies in one of the sets. Sorry, but I can’t think of the assumptions needed for an empty universe. Just guessing, because branes have been mentioned, there could well be submanifolds of six-dimensional shapes. But keep asking rhetorical questions. complex submanifolds of certain six-dimensional shapes called Calabi–Yau manifolds,Belfast_{January 16, 2022
January
01
Jan
16
16
2022
06:34 PM
6
06
34
PM
PDT}

Could there be an empty universe? Isn't it like saying there is absolutely nothing. How can absolutely nothing be said to "be"? I can say I have five pennies in my pocket and it means that there exist in my pocket five penny coins. I can also say there are five non-existent penny coins in my pocket but does that mean anything other than my pocket is empty?Seversky_{January 16, 2022
January
01
Jan
16
16
2022
05:47 PM
5
05
47
PM
PDT}

>" wouldn’t an infinite universe include the possibility that it doesn’t exist?" It sounded like this article was about the cyclical (rebounding) universe idea, not the multiverse. But yes, in an infinite set of universes, one of them might be empty. But even that is different from there being no universe (or multiverse) at all.EDTA_{January 16, 2022
January
01
Jan
16
16
2022
03:21 PM
3
03
21
PM
PDT}

Prev 1 2 3

You must be logged in to post a comment.

Leave a Reply