Uncommon Descent Serving The Intelligent Design Community

Review of Darwin’s Doubt slams ID theorists for not publishing in Darwinist-run journals

Share
Facebook
Twitter
LinkedIn
Flipboard
Print
Email

From Daniel Muth at Living Church, reviewing Steve Meyer’s Darwin’s Doubt:

I am fairly certain that there are thoughtful and potentially influential intellectual movements that have been subjected to more shameful and inexcusable misrepresentation and ill treatment than Intelligent Design (ID), but the list is not long (Roman Catholic teaching on artificial birth control comes to mind). To be fair, ID theorists have invited critique in no small part by tending to hold theirs out as a valid area of scientific research while mainly publishing popular books rather than peer-reviewed articles. If their intention was not to be lumped in with creationists, it has not worked.

From the disastrous Dover School Board lawsuit to the propaganda screeds of the New Atheists, ID has managed in a short time to fix itself in the popular consciousness as little but another movement of bellicose anti-scientific crackpots. That is a shame, because the theorists are generally quite thoughtful and reputably credentialed. The stuff they have written is informative, challenging, and worthwhile. More.

Muth appears to believe the incorrect information I (O’Leary for News) know for a fact that they were not. They thought the Dover school board’s decision, which resulted in the case, was appalling but also felt they ought to get involved to try to minimize the damage. The myth he refers to persists because people often don’t actually want to know what happened. If they do, they can’t really say the things they feel burdened to say and can gain approval for saying.

As for “mainly publishing popular books rather than peer-reviewed articles,” surely Muth is not so naive as to imagine that Darwinist-run journals would publish good ID research?

Just recently, Gunter Bechly, the gifted scientist who was disappeared from Wikipedia after he turned out to be an ID supporter described a beautiful dragonfly fossil with ID implications, which he had spent some time studying, in a peer-reviewed ID journal, BIO-Complexity.

He was promptly slammed for not publishing it in a Darwinist-run journal—as if Darwinists would have accepted it. And as if they would allow a discussion of the way it upsets neat Darwinian categories—other than a discussion entirely controlled by themselves which closes with reassurances that all is well.

But then that is probably what Living Church readers want: reassurances that a good Christian just accepts whatever mainstream science says, whatever it is. Makes life easier.

Here’s a thought: When a “thoughtful and potentially influential intellectual” movement is “subjected to more shameful and inexcusable misrepresentation and ill treatment,” it is usually due to intellectual corruption in the establishment. Again, one hesitates to believe that Muth is too naive to know that, but is there a better explanation? If so, what?

See also: Evolution News slams “sloppy” IV book by BioLogos advisor

and

Fossil dragonfly named in Mike Behe’s honor has implications for ID

Note: In the combox below, bornagain77 offers examples of what happens when ID theorists or sympathizers try to publish in Darwin-sympathetic journals. I he taken the liberty of posting it here to the OP. Essentially, the evidence the ID theorists offer against Darwinism proves that they are outsiders.  Insiders circle the wagons to protect a theory (Darwinism) that has become largely meaningless where it is not metaphysical. It has become so vague as to be largely unfalsifiable. And they like it that way. And they plan to keep evolution studies that way.   nyway, here are some stories to ponder in that light:

At post 9 Allan Keith states this in regards to Darwinian journals not allowing ID friendly papers:

I often here this claim but I have never seen any concrete examples. It would be of great interest to post a rejected paper here along with the reviewers comments and reason for rejection.

Well, here are a few examples of Darwinists publicly suppressing dissent from their views:

Richard Sternberg

Richard Sternberg – Smithsonian Controversy
In 2004, in my capacity as editor of The Proceedings of the Biological Society of Washington, I authorized “The Origin of Biological Information and the Higher Taxonomic Categories” by Dr. Stephen Meyer to be published in the journal after passing peer-review. Because Dr. Meyer’s article presented scientific evidence for intelligent design in biology, I faced retaliation, defamation, harassment, and a hostile work environment at the Smithsonian’s National Museum of Natural History that was designed to force me out as a Research Associate there. These actions were taken by federal government employees acting in concert with an outside advocacy group, the National Center for Science Education. Efforts were also made to get me fired from my job as a staff scientist at the National Center for Biotechnology Information. Subsequently, there were two federal investigations of my mistreatment, one by the U.S. Office of Special Counsel in 2005 , and the other by subcommittee staff of the U.S. House Committee on Government Reform in 2006. Both investigations unearthed clear evidence that my rights had been repeatedly violated. Because there has been so much misinformation spread about what actually happened to me, I have decided to make available the relevant documents here for those who would like to know the truth.
http://www.richardsternberg.com/smithsonian.php

Douglas Axe:

Douglas Axe, director of the Biologic Institute in Seattle, knows this first-hand. As a post-doctoral researcher at the prestigious Medical Research Council Centre in Cambridge in 2002, he was experimenting on protein structures when his superiors discovered that his research was being funded in part by an intelligent design organization. The science was solid – he later published his findings in a prestigious journal – but his association with intelligent design was considered unacceptable. He was asked to leave.
http://www.jewishpress.com/ind…..016/07/27/

Granville Sewell

ENV readers will recall that last year, University of Texas El Paso mathematics professor Granville Sewell was disallowed from publishing an article in Applied Mathematics Letters (AML) simply because it was (indirectly) critical of Darwinian evolution.
https://evolutionnews.org/2012/04/double_censorsh/

Guillermo Gonzalez

As we amply documented at the time, the real reasons Gonzalez did not get tenure at ISU were simple: discrimination and intolerance. Despite an exemplary record as a scientist, Gonzalez was rejected by ISU because of his support for intelligent design.
https://evolutionnews.org/2013/07/setting_the_rec/

Günter Bechly

Wikipedia Erases Paleontologist Günter Bechly
https://evolutionnews.org/2017/10/wikipedia-erases-paleontologist-gunter-bechly/

William Dembski and Robert Marks:

Academic Freedom Expelled from Baylor University
https://evolutionnews.org/2007/09/academic_freedom_expelled_from/

Michael Behe

ID theorist Mike Behe was refused a response in Microbe – September 22, 2013
https://uncommondescent.com…..n-microbe/

So, Michael Behe Was Right After All; What Will the Critics Say Now? – Casey Luskin July 16, 2014
Excerpt: Will Ken Miller, Jerry Coyne, Paul Gross, Nick Matzke, Sean Carroll, Richard Dawkins, and PZ Myers now Apologize to Michael Behe? (for their ad hominem attacks),,,
Is an apology from Behe’s critics then forthcoming? In a world where debates were conducted with the goal of discovering truth rather (than) scoring points, it sure ought to be. Unfortunately, I’m not sure we live in that world.
What we’ll probably get is nothing more than PZ Myers’s concession, offered in the context of the rant quoted above,,,
http://www.evolutionnews.org/2…..87901.html

Stephen Meyer

The Letter that Science Refused to Publish – November 8, 2013
Excerpt: Stephen Meyer sought the opportunity to reply, in the pages of Science, to UC Berkeley paleontologist Charles Marshall, who reviewed Darwin’s Doubt in the same publication. Without explanation, the editors refused to publish the letter. We offer it for your interest.
See more at:
http://www.evolutionnews.org/2…..78871.html

The attempted censorship of the book “Biological Information: New Perspectives”

Censorship Loses: Never Forget the Story of Biological Information: New Perspectives
Casey Luskin – August 20, 2013
http://www.evolutionnews.org/2…..75541.html

James Tour and anyone he knew who signed the “Dissent from Darwinism” list

“In the last few years I have seen a saddening progression at several institutions. I have witnessed unfair treatment upon scientists that do not accept macroevolutionary arguments and for their having signed the above-referenced statement regarding the examination of Darwinism. (Dissent from Darwinism list)(I will comment no further regarding the specifics of the actions taken upon the skeptics; I love and honor my colleagues too much for that.) I never thought that science would have evolved like this. I deeply value the academy; teaching, professing and research in the university are my privileges and joys… ”
Professor James M. Tour – one of the ten most cited chemists in the world
https://uncommondescent.com…..evolution/

If silencing by intimidation, or censorship, does not work, Darwinists simply ‘EXPEL’ anyone who disagrees with them:

Expelled: No Intelligence Allowed (full movie)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V5EPymcWp-g

Slaughter of Dissidents – Book
“If folks liked Ben Stein’s movie “Expelled: No Intelligence Allowed,” they will be blown away by “Slaughter of the Dissidents.” – Russ Miller
http://www.amazon.com/Slaughte…..0981873405

Origins – Slaughter of the Dissidents with Dr. Jerry Bergman – 2011 – video
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y6rzaM_BxBk

Slaughter of the Dissidents – Dr. Jerry Bergman – June 2013 – video
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2v5nAYU2GD0

Here are some of the peer reviewed papers supporting ID that have been published in spite of the systematic bias against ID:

BIBLIOGRAPHIC AND ANNOTATED LIST OF PEER-­REVIEWED PUBLICATIONS SUPPORTING INTELLIGENT DESIGN – UPDATED – July 2017
http://www.discovery.org/scrip…..8;id=10141

Evolutionary Informatics Lab – Main Publications
http://evoinfo.org/publications/

Bio-Complexity Publication Archive
http://bio-complexity.org/ojs/…..ue/archive

Biological Information – New Perspectives – Proceedings of the Symposium – published online May 2013
http://www.worldscientific.com…..8818#t=toc

Dr. David L. Abel (The Gene Emergence Project) – list of published papers
http://lifeorigin.academia.edu/DrDavidLAbel/Papers

Of related note:

But Darwinism is universally accepted among “real” scientists! – December 30, 2016
Excerpt: A friend started making a list of books that doubt all or most of modern Darwinism, neo-Darwinism, the slightly elastic Extended Synthesis, and came up with a three-tiered, hardly exhaustive, shelf:
St. George Mivart, On the Genesis of Species (1871)
Charles Hodge, What Is Darwinism (1874)
Samuel Butler, Evolution, Old and New (1879)
Henri Bergson, Creative Evolution (1907/tr. 1911)
Svante Arrhenius Worlds in the Making (1908)
Richard Goldschmidt, The Material Basis of Evolution (1940)
Jacques Barzun, Darwin, Marx, Wagner: Critique of a Heritage (1941)
Lecomte du Nouy, Human Destiny (1947)
Gertrude Himmelfarb, Darwin and the Darwinian Revolution (1959)
Norman Macbeth, Darwin Retried (Delta, 1971)
Pierre Paul Grassé: “L´evolution du vivant” (1973)
Gordon Rattray Taylor, The Great Evolution Mystery (Harper, 1983)
L. Cohen, Darwin Was Wrong: A Study in Probabilities (1984)
Michael Denton, Evolution: A Theory in Crisis (1985)
Soren Lovtrup Darwinism: The Refutation of a Myth (1987)
Rupert Sheldrake, The Presence of the Past: The Memory of Nature (1988)
R. F. Baum, Doctors of Modernity: Darwin, Marx & Freud (1988)
Robert Wesson, Beyond Natural Selection, MIT (1991)
Dorothy Kurth Boberg, Evolution and Reason – Beyond Darwin (1993)
Remy Chauvin: “Le darwinism où le fin d´un mythe” (1997)
Lynn Margulis, Symbiotic Life: A New Look at Evolution (1998)
Stuart Newman and Gerd Muller (eds.), Origination of Organismal Form” (2002)
David Stove, Darwinian Fairytales (2006)
Etienne Gilson, From Aristotle to Darwin & Back Again : A Journey in Final Causality, Species and Evolution (2009)
Jerry Fodor and Massimo Piattelli-Palmarini, What Darwin God Wrong (2010)
Gerd Muller and Massimo Pigliucci, Evolution: the Extended Synthesis” (2010)
George McGhee, Convergent Evolution: Limited Forms Most Beautiful, MIT (2011)
Thomas Nagel, Mind & Cosmos (2012)
A Lima-de-Faria, Evolution without Selection: Form and Function by Autoevolution (2013)
Michael Denton, Evolution: A Theory in Crisis (2015 [updated from 1985])
Suzan Mazur’s:
The Altenberg 16: An Exposé of the Evolution Industry (2009)
Paradigm Shifters (2015) and
Public Evolution Summit (2016).
https://uncommondescent.com…..cientists/

Even though neo-Darwinists still like to complain that Intelligent Design advocates don’t have that many published peer-reviewed papers, it turns out that if one looks at the peer-reviewed papers coming from neo-Darwinists themselves, the evidence will many times directly, and overwhelmingly, support the Intelligent Design position (such as ENCODE research), while their explanation for the evidence is found to be, many times, highly contrived, and twisted, just to support their presupposed philosophical conclusion of neo-Darwinism.

Darwinian ‘science’ in a nutshell:
Jonathan Wells on pop science boilerplate – April 20, 2015
Excerpt: Based on my reading of thousands of Peer-Reviewed Articles in the professional literature, I’ve distilled (the) template for writing scientific articles that deal with evolution:
1. (Presuppose that) Darwinian evolution is a fact.
2. We used [technique(s)] to study [feature(s)] in [name of species], and we unexpectedly found [results inconsistent with Darwinian evolution].
3. We propose [clever speculations], which might explain why the results appear to conflict with evolutionary theory.
4. We conclude that Darwinian evolution is a fact.
https://uncommondescent.com…..ilerplate/

 

Comments
BO'H: anti-Christian bias is palpable among ideologically activist secularists. Targetting Catholicism (as the largest single branch of the Christian faith) follows. I should add that the toll of people of Christian faith murdered under one pretext or another by leftist regimes and movements in the past 100 years easily exceeds the total for the previous 19 centuries; a horrible record. BTW, I agree on antisemitism, noting that the National Socialist German Worker's Party was clearly of the left, despite propaganda by Stalin et al and popular perceptions. Nominal Catholicism is entirely compatible with being part of that agenda, and serious Catholics may well not have a coherent, thought-through position. This holds for the broader context of Christian faith and even more for the trends in a civilisation once called Christendom, but now rapidly advancing to civilisational suicide as apostasy (and yes, that is the right term) becomes a driving force. A circumstance where globally 800+ million of living posterity has been killed in the womb in 40+ years, mounting at about a million more PER WEEK tied to the ideological corruption that protects this worldwide holocaust in progress is a capital example. Sadly, there are many others. KFkairosfocus
May 7, 2018
May
05
May
7
07
2018
02:32 AM
2
02
32
AM
PDT
PaCV @ 28 - OK then. I'm afraid I'm mystified by what the metaphor in 4 is meant to be about, so can you explain it?Bob O'H
May 7, 2018
May
05
May
7
07
2018
02:25 AM
2
02
25
AM
PDT
vmahuna - do you realise that the last but one UK Labour Prime Minister (surely the epitome of "Leftist establishment") converted to Roman Catholocism? I think there was a Democratic US President who was a Catholic, too (albeit a few years ago). FWIW the more unpleasant parts of the left are anti-semitic, not anti-Catholic.Bob O'H
May 7, 2018
May
05
May
7
07
2018
02:21 AM
2
02
21
AM
PDT
Truth @ 7 "Darwinists generally hate theism (especially Christianity) and anything that can be used to support it, including ID." Can you cite even ONE article that condemns Islam or Buddhism or Judaism or even shamanism because they require a belief in God? The Leftist establishment is really only anti-Christian, and most specifically anti-Roman Catholic (the other Catholic communities are simply unknown to American readers). There is some appropriate quote in one of GK Chesterton's stories about the Left fearing and hating Catholicism because they recognize Catholicism as the only serious INTELLECTUAL threat to atheistic socialism. But it has been lo! these many decades since I read Chesterton.vmahuna
May 6, 2018
May
05
May
6
06
2018
08:36 PM
8
08
36
PM
PDT
BA77 @ 25-27: Well done. Thank you.Truth Will Set You Free
May 6, 2018
May
05
May
6
06
2018
07:37 PM
7
07
37
PM
PDT
Bob O'H: Let's not be childish.PaV
May 6, 2018
May
05
May
6
06
2018
06:49 PM
6
06
49
PM
PDT
Here are some of the peer reviewed papers supporting ID that have been published in spite of the systematic bias against ID:
BIBLIOGRAPHIC AND ANNOTATED LIST OF PEER-­REVIEWED PUBLICATIONS SUPPORTING INTELLIGENT DESIGN - UPDATED – July 2017 http://www.discovery.org/scripts/viewDB/filesDB-download.php?command=download&id=10141 Evolutionary Informatics Lab - Main Publications http://evoinfo.org/publications/ Bio-Complexity Publication Archive http://bio-complexity.org/ojs/index.php/main/issue/archive Biological Information - New Perspectives - Proceedings of the Symposium - published online May 2013 http://www.worldscientific.com/worldscibooks/10.1142/8818#t=toc Dr. David L. Abel (The Gene Emergence Project) - list of published papers http://lifeorigin.academia.edu/DrDavidLAbel/Papers
Of related note:
But Darwinism is universally accepted among “real” scientists! - December 30, 2016 Excerpt: A friend started making a list of books that doubt all or most of modern Darwinism, neo-Darwinism, the slightly elastic Extended Synthesis, and came up with a three-tiered, hardly exhaustive, shelf: St. George Mivart, On the Genesis of Species (1871) Charles Hodge, What Is Darwinism (1874) Samuel Butler, Evolution, Old and New (1879) Henri Bergson, Creative Evolution (1907/tr. 1911) Svante Arrhenius Worlds in the Making (1908) Richard Goldschmidt, The Material Basis of Evolution (1940) Jacques Barzun, Darwin, Marx, Wagner: Critique of a Heritage (1941) Lecomte du Nouy, Human Destiny (1947) Gertrude Himmelfarb, Darwin and the Darwinian Revolution (1959) Norman Macbeth, Darwin Retried (Delta, 1971) Pierre Paul Grassé: “L´evolution du vivant” (1973) Gordon Rattray Taylor, The Great Evolution Mystery (Harper, 1983) L. Cohen, Darwin Was Wrong: A Study in Probabilities (1984) Michael Denton, Evolution: A Theory in Crisis (1985) Soren Lovtrup Darwinism: The Refutation of a Myth (1987) Rupert Sheldrake, The Presence of the Past: The Memory of Nature (1988) R. F. Baum, Doctors of Modernity: Darwin, Marx & Freud (1988) Robert Wesson, Beyond Natural Selection, MIT (1991) Dorothy Kurth Boberg, Evolution and Reason – Beyond Darwin (1993) Remy Chauvin: “Le darwinism où le fin d´un mythe” (1997) Lynn Margulis, Symbiotic Life: A New Look at Evolution (1998) Stuart Newman and Gerd Muller (eds.), Origination of Organismal Form” (2002) David Stove, Darwinian Fairytales (2006) Etienne Gilson, From Aristotle to Darwin & Back Again : A Journey in Final Causality, Species and Evolution (2009) Jerry Fodor and Massimo Piattelli-Palmarini, What Darwin God Wrong (2010) Gerd Muller and Massimo Pigliucci, Evolution: the Extended Synthesis” (2010) George McGhee, Convergent Evolution: Limited Forms Most Beautiful, MIT (2011) Thomas Nagel, Mind & Cosmos (2012) A Lima-de-Faria, Evolution without Selection: Form and Function by Autoevolution (2013) Michael Denton, Evolution: A Theory in Crisis (2015 [updated from 1985]) Suzan Mazur’s: The Altenberg 16: An Exposé of the Evolution Industry (2009) Paradigm Shifters (2015) and Public Evolution Summit (2016). https://uncommondescent.com/intelligent-design/but-darwinism-is-universally-accepted-among-real-scientists/
Even though neo-Darwinists still like to complain that Intelligent Design advocates don't have that many published peer-reviewed papers, it turns out that if one looks at the peer-reviewed papers coming from neo-Darwinists themselves, the evidence will many times directly, and overwhelmingly, support the Intelligent Design position (such as ENCODE research), while their explanation for the evidence is found to be, many times, highly contrived, and twisted, just to support their presupposed philosophical conclusion of neo-Darwinism.
Darwinian 'science' in a nutshell: Jonathan Wells on pop science boilerplate - April 20, 2015 Excerpt: Based on my reading of thousands of Peer-Reviewed Articles in the professional literature, I’ve distilled (the) template for writing scientific articles that deal with evolution: 1. (Presuppose that) Darwinian evolution is a fact. 2. We used [technique(s)] to study [feature(s)] in [name of species], and we unexpectedly found [results inconsistent with Darwinian evolution]. 3. We propose [clever speculations], which might explain why the results appear to conflict with evolutionary theory. 4. We conclude that Darwinian evolution is a fact. https://uncommondescent.com/darwinism/jon-wells-on-pop-science-boilerplate/
bornagain77
May 6, 2018
May
05
May
6
06
2018
05:32 PM
5
05
32
PM
PDT
The attempted censorship of the book "Biological Information: New Perspectives"
Censorship Loses: Never Forget the Story of Biological Information: New Perspectives Casey Luskin - August 20, 2013 http://www.evolutionnews.org/2013/08/censorship_lose075541.html
James Tour and anyone he knew who signed the "Dissent from Darwinism" list
“In the last few years I have seen a saddening progression at several institutions. I have witnessed unfair treatment upon scientists that do not accept macroevolutionary arguments and for their having signed the above-referenced statement regarding the examination of Darwinism. (Dissent from Darwinism list)(I will comment no further regarding the specifics of the actions taken upon the skeptics; I love and honor my colleagues too much for that.) I never thought that science would have evolved like this. I deeply value the academy; teaching, professing and research in the university are my privileges and joys… ” Professor James M. Tour – one of the ten most cited chemists in the world https://uncommondescent.com/intelligent-design/a-world-famous-chemist-tells-the-truth-theres-no-scientist-alive-today-who-understands-macroevolution/
If silencing by intimidation, or censorship, does not work, Darwinists simply 'EXPEL' anyone who disagrees with them:
Expelled: No Intelligence Allowed (full movie) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V5EPymcWp-g Slaughter of Dissidents - Book "If folks liked Ben Stein's movie "Expelled: No Intelligence Allowed," they will be blown away by "Slaughter of the Dissidents." - Russ Miller http://www.amazon.com/Slaughter-Dissidents-Dr-Jerry-Bergman/dp/0981873405 Origins - Slaughter of the Dissidents with Dr. Jerry Bergman – 2011 - video http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y6rzaM_BxBk Slaughter of the Dissidents - Dr. Jerry Bergman - June 2013 - video http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2v5nAYU2GD0
bornagain77
May 6, 2018
May
05
May
6
06
2018
05:27 PM
5
05
27
PM
PDT
at post 9 Allan Keith states this in regards to Darwinian journals not allowing ID friendly papers:
I often here this claim but I have never seen any concrete examples. It would be of great interest to post a rejected paper here along with the reviewers comments and reason for rejection.
Well, here are a few examples of Darwinists publicly suppressing dissent from their views: Richard Sternberg
Richard Sternberg - Smithsonian Controversy In 2004, in my capacity as editor of The Proceedings of the Biological Society of Washington, I authorized “The Origin of Biological Information and the Higher Taxonomic Categories” by Dr. Stephen Meyer to be published in the journal after passing peer-review. Because Dr. Meyer’s article presented scientific evidence for intelligent design in biology, I faced retaliation, defamation, harassment, and a hostile work environment at the Smithsonian’s National Museum of Natural History that was designed to force me out as a Research Associate there. These actions were taken by federal government employees acting in concert with an outside advocacy group, the National Center for Science Education. Efforts were also made to get me fired from my job as a staff scientist at the National Center for Biotechnology Information. Subsequently, there were two federal investigations of my mistreatment, one by the U.S. Office of Special Counsel in 2005 , and the other by subcommittee staff of the U.S. House Committee on Government Reform in 2006. Both investigations unearthed clear evidence that my rights had been repeatedly violated. Because there has been so much misinformation spread about what actually happened to me, I have decided to make available the relevant documents here for those who would like to know the truth. http://www.richardsternberg.com/smithsonian.php
Douglas Axe:
Douglas Axe, director of the Biologic Institute in Seattle, knows this first-hand. As a post-doctoral researcher at the prestigious Medical Research Council Centre in Cambridge in 2002, he was experimenting on protein structures when his superiors discovered that his research was being funded in part by an intelligent design organization. The science was solid – he later published his findings in a prestigious journal – but his association with intelligent design was considered unacceptable. He was asked to leave. http://www.jewishpress.com/indepth/interviews-and-profiles/god-evolution-and-darwin-an-interview-with-molecular-biologist-douglas-axe/2016/07/27/
Granville Sewell
ENV readers will recall that last year, University of Texas El Paso mathematics professor Granville Sewell was disallowed from publishing an article in Applied Mathematics Letters (AML) simply because it was (indirectly) critical of Darwinian evolution. https://evolutionnews.org/2012/04/double_censorsh/
Guillermo Gonzalez
As we amply documented at the time, the real reasons Gonzalez did not get tenure at ISU were simple: discrimination and intolerance. Despite an exemplary record as a scientist, Gonzalez was rejected by ISU because of his support for intelligent design. https://evolutionnews.org/2013/07/setting_the_rec/
Günter Bechly
Wikipedia Erases Paleontologist Günter Bechly https://evolutionnews.org/2017/10/wikipedia-erases-paleontologist-gunter-bechly/
William Dembski and Robert Marks:
Academic Freedom Expelled from Baylor University https://evolutionnews.org/2007/09/academic_freedom_expelled_from/
Michael Behe
ID theorist Mike Behe was refused a response in Microbe - September 22, 2013 https://uncommondescent.com/irreducible-complexity/id-theorist-mike-behe-was-refused-a-response-in-microbe/ So, Michael Behe Was Right After All; What Will the Critics Say Now? - Casey Luskin July 16, 2014 Excerpt: Will Ken Miller, Jerry Coyne, Paul Gross, Nick Matzke, Sean Carroll, Richard Dawkins, and PZ Myers now Apologize to Michael Behe? (for their ad hominem attacks),,, Is an apology from Behe's critics then forthcoming? In a world where debates were conducted with the goal of discovering truth rather (than) scoring points, it sure ought to be. Unfortunately, I'm not sure we live in that world. What we'll probably get is nothing more than PZ Myers's concession, offered in the context of the rant quoted above,,, http://www.evolutionnews.org/2014/07/so_michael_behe087901.html
Stephen Meyer
The Letter that Science Refused to Publish - November 8, 2013 Excerpt: Stephen Meyer sought the opportunity to reply, in the pages of Science, to UC Berkeley paleontologist Charles Marshall, who reviewed Darwin's Doubt in the same publication. Without explanation, the editors refused to publish the letter. We offer it for your interest. See more at: http://www.evolutionnews.org/2013/11/the_letter_that078871.html
bornagain77
May 6, 2018
May
05
May
6
06
2018
05:27 PM
5
05
27
PM
PDT
W. Provine: There are no ... purposes, and no goal-directed forces of any kind.
Let's apply that to Provine himself, since, as so many a/mats, he seems to forget doing that. Here goes: whatever Provine says, or does, does not serve the purpose of telling the truth — or any other purpose. When Provine speaks he just starts talking for no reason whatsoever, without any goal, very much like a total lunatic. Hope that helps.Origenes
May 6, 2018
May
05
May
6
06
2018
04:02 PM
4
04
02
PM
PDT
People, could we get back to the OP topic? Otherwise, I shall feel forced to shut off the flow of free virtual beer.News
May 6, 2018
May
05
May
6
06
2018
03:57 PM
3
03
57
PM
PDT
BA77 @ 21: "An atheist morally offended against violence?" It's called selective outrage. A/mats don't really care about violence, especially violence against theists of the Christian variety. They actually like that sort of violence.Truth Will Set You Free
May 6, 2018
May
05
May
6
06
2018
03:47 PM
3
03
47
PM
PDT
An atheist morally offended against violence? Really??? Please do tell me more about this illusory morality against violence that you, an atheist, are having?
20TH CENTURY DEMOCIDE http://www.mega.nu/ampp/rummel/dbg.tab1.2.1.gif In the 20th century, Christians have been persecuted by various groups, including the Islamic Ottoman Empire in the form of the Armenian Genocide, the Assyrian Genocide and the Greek Genocide, as well as atheistic states such as the Soviet Union and North Korea. During World War II members of some Christian churches were persecuted in Nazi Germany for resisting Nazi ideology. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Persecution_of_Christians For Its Moral Ideals, Evolutionary Materialism "Freeloads" on Christianity - Nancy Pearcey - May 8, 2015 Excerpt: Westerners pride themselves on holding noble ideals such as equality and universal human rights. Yet the dominant worldview of our day -- evolutionary materialism -- denies the reality of human freedom and gives no basis for moral ideals such as human rights. So where did the idea of equal rights come from? The 19th-century political thinker Alexis de Tocqueville said it came from Christianity. "The most profound geniuses of Rome and Greece" never came up with the idea of equal rights, he wrote. "Jesus Christ had to come to earth to make it understood that all members of the human species are naturally alike and equal." The 19th-century atheist Friedrich Nietzsche agreed: "Another Christian concept ... has passed even more deeply into the tissue of modernity: the concept of the 'equality of souls before God.' This concept furnishes the prototype of all theories of equal rights." Contemporary atheist Luc Ferry says the same thing. We tend to take the concept of equality for granted; yet it was Christianity that overthrew ancient social hierarchies between rich and poor, masters and slaves. "According to Christianity, we were all 'brothers,' on the same level as creatures of God," Ferry writes. "Christianity is the first universalist ethos.",,, At the birth of our nation, the American founders deemed it self-evident that human rights must be grounded in God. The Declaration of Independence leads off with those bright, blazing words: "We hold these truths to be self-evident -- that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable rights." In the summer of 2013, a beer company sparked controversy when it released an advertisement for Independence Day that deleted the crucial words "by their Creator." The ad said, "They are endowed with certain unalienable rights." (Endowed by whom?) The advertisement is emblematic of what many secularists do: They borrow ideals like equality and rights from a biblical worldview but cut them off from their source in the Creator. They are freeloaders. http://www.evolutionnews.org/2015/05/for_its_moral_i095901.html Sociological Survey Confirms the Dangers of a "Biological" View of Humanity - Richard Weikart - September 28, 2016 Excerpt: He identified three main views of humanity that dominate the academic debate: the theological view, the biological view, and the philosophical view. The theological view is the Judeo-Christian position that considers humans created in the image of God. The biological view is a materialistic vision of humanity that considers humans nothing more than their biological makeup. This view tends to see human behavior as biologically determined. The philosophical view is the position that humans are defined by specific traits, such as rationality or self-awareness.,,, What he found was that people upholding the biological point of view (and the philosophical view) were less likely to support human rights than those embracing the theological perspective. He admits point blank that the critics (including me) are correct: "From the normative perspective of the critics, this all seems quite damning, and the conclusion is clear -- the critics are correct to be concerned about the spread of these anthropologies" http://www.evolutionnews.org/2016/09/sociological_su103175.html
bornagain77
May 6, 2018
May
05
May
6
06
2018
02:53 PM
2
02
53
PM
PDT
PaV @ 17 - I certainly didn't read it as a metaphor, I'm afraid. Also, your "No. I don’t." response only makes grammatical sense as a response to my "Do you really think such violent rhetoric is appropriate?", which raises the question of why you used such rhetoric.Bob O'H
May 6, 2018
May
05
May
6
06
2018
02:27 PM
2
02
27
PM
PDT
Seversky, an automaton with no free will, who champions 'survival of the fittest' thinking, states:
You might win a fight using a 2 x 4, you don’t win an argument. Unless you believe might is right.
Really??? Exactly why is it irrational on the Darwinian 'survival of the fittest' worldview to not win an argument with a 2 x 4 ? Besides Darwinists having no free will in which to have a rational argument in the first place, (not to mention having no transcendent immaterial truth to argue for), if Darwinian evolution were actually true then there would be no transcendent objective morals to say hitting someone upside the head with a 2 x 4 to win a argument is wrong? Stalin, Mao and Hitler, all avid Darwinists, certainly had no moral compunctions to prevent them from using force to win arguments against all those who disagreed with them.
"Death is the solution to all problems. No man, no problem." - Joseph Stalin "Communism is not love. Communism is a hammer which we use to crush the enemy." Mao Zedong "It is not truth that matters, but victory." Adolf Hitler
Again, Seversky, just why is it irrational on the atheist's 'survival of the fittest' worldview to not use force to win arguments? You guys really need to come to grips with what your materialistic worldview actually entails and quit stealing from Judeo-Christian presuppositions.
"Let me summarize my views on what modern evolutionary biology tells us loud and clear — and these are basically Darwin’s views. There are no gods, no purposes, and no goal-directed forces of any kind. There is no life after death. When I die, I am absolutely certain that I am going to be dead. That’s the end of me. There is no ultimate foundation for ethics, no ultimate meaning in life, and no free will for humans, either." - William Provine
bornagain77
May 6, 2018
May
05
May
6
06
2018
02:01 PM
2
02
01
PM
PDT
Has anyone ever been murdered in virtual reality and it turned out to be true in actual reality? That said, talk of violence and murder is bad for business around here. I don't believe any method works for zombies except not believing in them. They are mortally offended because their existence depends on at least one person believing in them.News
May 6, 2018
May
05
May
6
06
2018
01:07 PM
1
01
07
PM
PDT
Bob O'H: No. I don't. It is obvious metaphor. Severesky:
You might win a fight using a 2 x 4, you don’t win an argument. Unless you believe might is right.
But I use a 2 x 4 because the argument can't be won. Fundamentalism is at work. It is a sad state of affairs. And great harm comes from it, both to science and society. There are not indifferent realities. My hope is that science will accumulate such a massive amount of contra-indicators to the materialist view (tip of the hat to BA77) that science will be forced to return to its senses. My guess: at least 20 years. I was just working with some grade-schoolers, and I used the example of the Adriatic wall lizards, and how quickly they changed their morphologies. I pointed out to them that I had asked tha an experiment be performed where the diet of the lizards was changed and the results observed. What did they find? 20 lizards with 'cecal valves' taken from the island they were transplanted to 30 something years ago were placed in the lab and fed arthropods (insects) for 15 weeks, and then examined. ALL 20 of them LOST their cecal valves. This was something you could predict. It is a non-Darwinian prediction, and it turned out phenomenally right. Then there's "junk-DNA," and again the Darwinian view turned out wrong. None of this slows down Darwinism. Why? Because there's no other theory out there. Really? Why not use ID? But it's not that easy. Why? Well, let me state what Darwin's friend Hooker stated right after the publication of OoS: "We should accept this theory because it's the only one that can give us something to test." (a paraphrase). 160 years later, they're saying the same thing. We're stuck in the 1850's.PaV
May 6, 2018
May
05
May
6
06
2018
12:48 PM
12
12
48
PM
PDT
Sev-- You might win a fight using a 2 x 4, you don’t win an argument. OTOH, metaphors work well and are especially effective when the opponent takes them as literal when they are obviously not meant as such :-)tribune7
May 6, 2018
May
05
May
6
06
2018
11:15 AM
11
11
15
AM
PDT
Latemarch @ 11 - Everybody's different, but I don't find the prospect of being murdered terribly amusing.Bob O'H
May 6, 2018
May
05
May
6
06
2018
11:00 AM
11
11
00
AM
PDT
Seversky is clueless. Where's the scientific theory of evolution? Where are the testable hypotheses tat are supposed to precede it? How do evolutionists "win" arguments. Seversky? It definitely is not via evidence and science. You can't lead by example. At least ID has a scientific methodology to test its claims. You don't even have thatET
May 6, 2018
May
05
May
6
06
2018
10:38 AM
10
10
38
AM
PDT
PaV @ 4
I, for one, admit to being “bellicose” at times; but only because you need a 2 x 4 to knock some sense into Darwinists (or is it “evolutionary biologists”) for whom only a stake through the heart will disabuse them of the failings and weaknesses of this theory.
You might win a fight using a 2 x 4, you don't win an argument. Unless you believe might is right.Seversky
May 6, 2018
May
05
May
6
06
2018
10:11 AM
10
10
11
AM
PDT
From the Muth review:
In the end, I doubt ID will amount to much, scientifically. Some of its opponents seem reasonable people and the challenge of positing a falsifiable theory will likely be too daunting.
Paul Nelson in Touchstone magazine, Jul-Aug 2004:
"Easily the biggest challenge facing the ID community is to develop a full-fledged theory of biological design. We don't have such a theory right now, and that's a real problem."
It still is.Seversky
May 6, 2018
May
05
May
6
06
2018
10:05 AM
10
10
05
AM
PDT
BA77, PAV: And the prediction comes true! See@6
Do you really think such violent rhetoric is appropriate? Aren’t you worried that your words could be used to advocate for assault and murder?
Latemarch
May 6, 2018
May
05
May
6
06
2018
09:25 AM
9
09
25
AM
PDT
PaV @ 4 -
I, for one, admit to being “bellicose” at times; but only because you need a 2 x 4 to knock some sense into Darwinists (or is it “evolutionary biologists”) for whom only a stake through the heart will disabuse them of the failings and weaknesses of this theory.
Do you really think such violent rhetoric is appropriate? Aren't you worried that your words could be used to advocate for assault and murder?Bob O'H
May 6, 2018
May
05
May
6
06
2018
09:21 AM
9
09
21
AM
PDT
As for “mainly publishing popular books rather than peer-reviewed articles,” surely Muth is not so naive as to imagine that Darwinist-run journals would publish good ID research?
I often here this claim but I have never seen any concrete examples. It would be of great interest to post a rejected paper here along with the reviewers comments and reason for rejection.Allan Keith
May 6, 2018
May
05
May
6
06
2018
09:12 AM
9
09
12
AM
PDT
Correction: "couldn't" care less... but I'm sure you got the point.Truth Will Set You Free
May 6, 2018
May
05
May
6
06
2018
08:48 AM
8
08
48
AM
PDT
Darwinists generally hate theism (especially Christianity) and anything that can be used to support it, including ID. They are hopelessly biased against ID and their journals reflect that bias... even hostility. Darwinist idealogues are a/mat religious zealots who think they are smarter than they really are. And they never seem to consider that their chosen faith may be wrong. To be honest, I don't really like a/mats and could care less what happens to them. Blowhard a/mat haters like Richard Dawkins, Sam Harris, Bill Maher, etc. are my enemies... not my friends. Just being honest.Truth Will Set You Free
May 6, 2018
May
05
May
6
06
2018
08:41 AM
8
08
41
AM
PDT
BA77: Now you've gone and done it!
Therefore a stake through the heart is not enough to take out a Darwinian zombie. And since, with Darwinists, we are in fact more realistically dealing with mindless/soulless zombies instead of vampires, then the prescribed methods of killing a Darwinian zombie are as such,,,
How to Kill a Zombie – by Erik Henriksen DECAPITATION. To kill zombies, you need to destroy their brains. The most surefire route is simply lopping off the cranium with a chainsaw, machete, or samurai sword. Mind the follow-through, however– anything less than 100 percent severance just isn’t good enough. BLUDGEONING. Any blunt object–from a baseball bat to a brick–wielded with suitable force at the cranium will destroy the brain. But be quick on your feet and keep your eye on the target, slugger–when you’re this close to a zombie, miss even once and you might as well just hand your brains to the zombie on a silver platter. BURNING. Don’t have the convenience of a sniper rifle to take out zombies from afar? The next best thing is a Molotov cocktail–just make sure the zombies are far enough away so they’ll be reduced to ashes before they can shamble after you. EXPLODING. A solid technique, but one that requires heavy weaponry. In the chaos that will doubtlessly strike an urban center after a zombie infestation, make your way to a military storehouse or a morally dubious pawn shop and acquire a rocket launcher. Then shoot, load, and repeat. https://www.portlandmercury.com/news/how-to-kill-a-zombie/Content?oid=32136
They will accuse you of inciting violence against them. Not only do they have no free will, they have no sense of humor ";^)Latemarch
May 6, 2018
May
05
May
6
06
2018
08:27 AM
8
08
27
AM
PDT
PaV as to,
"for whom only a stake through the heart will disabuse them of the failings and weaknesses of this theory."
Since Darwinists believe in reductive materialism, and are therefore to be regarded as 'neuronal illusions' instead of real persons, I would hold that Darwinists should more properly be classified as mindless/soulless Zombies instead of as Vampires.
Difference Between Zombie and Vampire Excerpt: Vampires are depicted as handsome, charismatic, charming pale human beings that prefer feasting on human blood. Vampires are also depicted as having abilities such as ESP, telepathy, telekinesis and the ability to turn into bats or other animals. Crosses, Wooden stakes, Holy water, certain herbs (vervain), garlic and silver are considered as weaknesses of vampires. Zombies are still depicted as vicious flesh eating creatures. Zombies are corpses that are revived from death, either by magic or drugs. Zombies are most commonly depicted as brain dead, decaying corpses that crave the human flesh and brains. http://www.differencebetween.info/difference-between-zombie-and-vampire
Therefore a stake through the heart, though good enough to stop a Vampire, is not enough to take out a Darwinian zombie. And since, with Darwinists, we are in fact more realistically dealing with mindless/soulless zombies instead of vampires, then the prescribed methods of killing a Darwinian zombie are as such,,,
How to Kill a Zombie - by Erik Henriksen DECAPITATION. To kill zombies, you need to destroy their brains. The most surefire route is simply lopping off the cranium with a chainsaw, machete, or samurai sword. Mind the follow-through, however-- anything less than 100 percent severance just isn't good enough. BLUDGEONING. Any blunt object--from a baseball bat to a brick--wielded with suitable force at the cranium will destroy the brain. But be quick on your feet and keep your eye on the target, slugger--when you're this close to a zombie, miss even once and you might as well just hand your brains to the zombie on a silver platter. BURNING. Don't have the convenience of a sniper rifle to take out zombies from afar? The next best thing is a Molotov cocktail--just make sure the zombies are far enough away so they'll be reduced to ashes before they can shamble after you. EXPLODING. A solid technique, but one that requires heavy weaponry. In the chaos that will doubtlessly strike an urban center after a zombie infestation, make your way to a military storehouse or a morally dubious pawn shop and acquire a rocket launcher. Then shoot, load, and repeat. https://www.portlandmercury.com/news/how-to-kill-a-zombie/Content?oid=32136
:) On the more serious side,, Dr Jonathan Wells has a book entitled 'Zombie Science'
Zombie Science: More Icons of Evolution – March 27, 2017 by Jonathan Wells https://www.amazon.com/Zombie-Science-More-Icons-Evolution/dp/1936599449/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1525620466&sr=8-1&keywords=zombie+science ,,, Discredited icons of evolution rise from the dead while more icons—equally bogus—join their ranks. Like a B horror movie, they just keep coming! Zombies are make believe, but zombie science is real—and it threatens not just science, but our whole culture. Is there a solution? Wells is sure of it, and points the way.
bornagain77
May 6, 2018
May
05
May
6
06
2018
08:14 AM
8
08
14
AM
PDT
Bob O'H:
Or perhaps he’s taken an evidence-based approach and seen that “good ID research” has been published in “Darwinist-run journals” (e.g. Sanford & Basener’s recent paper).
Or perhaps "Sanford & Basener's" paper was published because it criticized Fisher's Fundamental Theorem, something that had already been done by evolutionists. After all, evolutionists tell us that the "modern synthesis" is dead; of which, Fisher's theorem is part and parcel. I, for one, admit to being "bellicose" at times; but only because you need a 2 x 4 to knock some sense into Darwinists (or is it "evolutionary biologists") for whom only a stake through the heart will disabuse them of the failings and weaknesses of this theory.PaV
May 6, 2018
May
05
May
6
06
2018
07:28 AM
7
07
28
AM
PDT
1 3 4 5 6

Leave a Reply