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Snowflake Barbarians

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Why did liberal democracy arise in the West and nowhere else?  Because of the influence of Christianity on Western politics.  Consider the most famous expression of classical liberalism the world has ever known, the Declaration of Independence:

“We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights . . .”

Compare that passage to Galatians 3:28:

“There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither slave nor free man, there is neither male nor female; for you are all one in Christ Jesus.”

Paul’s message in Galatians was not political.  He was making a theological statement about the equality of Christians in the body of Christ.  Nevertheless, the implications of his argument for a predominantly Christian polity are nothing short of radical.  It took a long time for these implications to sink in, but eventually it dawned on Christian thinkers that certain political institutions that had been taken for granted for all of human history were fundamentally incompatible with Christianity.  Institutions such as slavery.  If my slave is my brother in Christ, how can I continue to hold him in slavery?  There isn’t a good answer to that question, and that is why abolitionism as a political movement arose in Christian Europe, and it is also why for the most part the abolitionists – from Wilberforce in England to Harriet Elisabeth Beecher Stowe in the United States – were Christians making Christian arguments to Christian political communities receptive to such arguments.

As the Declaration expressly states, the Christian idea of equality of all men before God is the foundation of the political idea of the equality of all men under the law.  Don’t take my word for it.  Atheist professor Yuval Noah Harari agrees.  In his international bestseller Sapiens: A Brief History of Humankind, Harari wrote:  “The idea of equality is inextricably intertwined with the idea of creation.  The Americans got the idea of equality from Christianity, which argues that every person has a divinely created soul, and that all souls are equal before God.”

This passage comes from a longer passage in which Harari argues that the ideas expressed in the Declaration are so much imaginary drivel.  He writes:

Both the Code of Hammurabi and the American Declaration of Independence claim to outline universal and eternal principles of justice, but according to the Americans all people are equal, whereas according to the Babylonians people are decidedly unequal. The Americans would, of course, say that they are right, and that Hammurabi is wrong. Hammurabi, naturally, would retort that he is right, and that the Americans are wrong.  In fact, they are both wrong.  Hammurabi and the American Founding Fathers alike imagined a reality governed by universal and immutable principles of justice, such as equality or hierarchy.  Yet the only place where such universal principles exist is in the fertile imagination of Sapiens, and in the myths they invent and tell one another. These principles have no objective validity.

It is easy for us to accept that the division of people into ‘superiors’ and ‘commoners’ is a figment of the imagination. Yet the idea that all humans are equal is also a myth.  In what sense do all humans equal one another?  Is there any objective reality, outside the human imagination, in which we are truly equal? . . . According to the science of biology, people were not ‘created’. They have evolved. And they certainly did not evolve to be ‘equal’.  The idea of equality is inextricably intertwined with the idea of creation.  The Americans got the idea of equality from Christianity, which argues that every person has a divinely created soul, and that all souls are equal before God.  However, if we do not believe in the Christian myths about God, creation and souls, what does it mean that all people are ‘equal’?  Evolution is based on difference, not on equality. Every person carries a somewhat different genetic code, and is exposed from birth to different environmental influences.  This leads to the development of different qualities that carry with them different chances of survival.  ‘Created equal’ should therefore be translated into ‘evolved differently’.

Just as people were never created, neither, according to the science of biology, is there a ‘Creator’ who ‘endows’ them with anything. There is only a blind evolutionary process, devoid of any purpose, leading to the birth of individuals. ‘Endowed by their creator’ should be translated simply into ‘born’.

Equally, there are no such things as rights in biology. There are only organs, abilities and characteristics.  Birds do not fly because they have a right to fly, but because they have wings. And it’s not true that these organs, abilities and characteristics are ‘unalienable’.  Many of them undergo constant mutations, and may well be completely lost over time.  The ostrich is a bird that lost its ability to fly. So ‘unalienable rights’ should be translated into ‘mutable characteristics’.

And what are the characteristics that evolved in humans? ‘Life’, certainly. But ‘liberty’? There is no such thing in biology. Just like equality, rights and limited liability companies, liberty is something that people invented and that exists only in their imagination. From a biological viewpoint, it is meaningless to say that humans in democratic societies are free, whereas humans in dictatorships are unfree.

Harari’s analysis is remarkably clear-eyed for a materialist atheist.  He admits that under materialism, human dignity does not exist; universal principles of justice and equality do not exist; human rights do not exist; liberty does not exist.  All of these things are social constructs resulting from entirely contingent physical processes.

For a couple of centuries, we in the West have enjoyed a polity based on an attempt to infuse Christian doctrines into our political practice.  While the result has been far from perfect, compared to the great mass of men over the long stretch of history, that effort has produced a civilization that has been, by far, the freest, most prosperous, and most democratic the world has ever known.  Is that civilization sustainable when its Christian foundations are crumbling under a relentless onslaught of metaphysical materialism?

That question brings me to the title of this post.  In recent months, the news has been full of stories about the “Snowflake” phenomenon on college campuses.  We have read story after story about illiberal college students cracking down on anyone attempting to express any view contrary to progressive dogma.  It is not hard to connect the dots here.  The Snowflake movement is an offshoot of political correctness, which is in turn the handmaiden of progressivism, which is fascistic at its root.

Properly understood, the Christian worldview, infused as it is with notions of the fallibility of man, supports an epistemological humility upon which true tolerance and pluralism can rest.  Metaphysical materialism, not so much.  Materialism denies any transcendent morality and the objective existence of justice.  Might makes right.  Is it any wonder that fully 70% of college students support restrictions on the right to free expression?

Lincoln wrote that the principles of the Declaration are “the definitions and axioms of free society” and that the abstract truths in that document would “in all coming days . . . be a rebuke and a stumbling block to the very harbingers of reappearing tyranny and oppression.”

Maybe.  The Declaration is built on a Christian foundation.  But what will happen if that foundation is destroyed when its essential truth claims are denied?  We are about to find out.  Darwin’s great triumph was not so much scientific as it was metaphysical.  The publication of Origin of Species marked the beginning of materialism’s long march though our institutions, especially our universities.  And we have an inkling of what it will look like when that march is finished and materialism reigns triumphant.  It looks like this:

 

melissa_click_c0-17-640-390_s885x516

“I need some muscle over here.”

 

Below I answer some responses that I anticipate.

  1. Liberalism is entirely consistent with materialist metaphysics. We know this because many liberals are materialists.

The term “liberalism” can be confusing.  When I use the term in the post, I mean “classical liberalism,” the political ideology that emphasizes private property, economic liberty, the rule of law, and constitutional guaranties of fundamental rights, such as freedom of religion.  Ironically, in the United States at least, classical liberalism is known as “conservatism.”  Classical liberalism is not to be confused with modern liberalism, which is also known as progressivism, which is a variant of fascism.  Classical liberalism is in fact the exact opposite of modern liberalism.

  1. Everyone knows the Founders were all Deists, not Christians.

No, they were not.  In fact, very few of them were.  Yes, Thomas Jefferson was not an orthodox Christian, and Benjamin Franklin was a deist, but those religious positions were by no means representative of the founders.  The signers of the Declaration itself were, for example, overwhelmingly orthodox Christians (52 of 56).  Jefferson knew he was writing a document that, if it were to accomplish anything, required the assent of an overwhelmingly orthodox Christian audience (both the men who would sign it and the population that would be called to rally around it).  He responded by writing a document that was consciously intended to appeal to that audience.

  1. Slave owners used Biblical arguments.

Yes, they did.  And they were wrong.

  1. Metaphysical materialism did not begin with Darwin.

Of course it didn’t.  Democritus (ca. 400 BC) was probably the first systematic materialists, and the Epicureans based a large part of their philosophy on his ideas.  I did not say that materialism began with Darwin.  I said that the triumph of materialism in formerly Christian western institutions began with Darwin.  On this point, Richard Dawkins is correct.  Atheism predated Darwin, but Darwin made it possible to be an intellectually fulfilled atheist.  As an aside, Dawkins’ s statement was true for Darwin’s fellow Victorians and perhaps for a couple of generations afterward.  In an age where atheist true believers are increasingly required to grit their teeth in the face of the overwhelming evidence of design (particularly at the cellular and molecular level), this is no longer true.  But the damage has been done.  History will show that Darwinism was a bridge between evidence based epistemology and post-modern epistemology.  In other words, by the time it was revealed that the evidence no longer supported Darwin, evidence no longer mattered.

  1. Christians are bad, as the Wars of Religion proved

This argument is based on a flawed conception of Christian doctrine.  Christianity does not teach that Christians are good and non-Christians are bad.  Christianity teachers that everyone is bad and that is why everyone stands in need of Christ’s grace for salvation.  Christianity also teaches that the Holy Spirit works in Christ’s followers to sanctify them and lead them to good works.  From a Christian perspective, it is entirely unsurprising that evil men will start unjust wars using religion as a pretext.  It is also entirely unsurprising that atheists such as Stalin and Mao will kill tens of millions in a quixotic quest for earthly atheist political utopia.  For the Christian, history is one long blood-soaked lesson in the truth of doctrine of the depravity of man, whether that depravity is cloaked in perverted religion or materialist madness.

  1. “Materialism” is not a thing (or no one has believed in Materialism since the 1800s).

Here I use the term as a shorthand for a metaphysical monism that denies the existence of God.  If you prefer physicalism, naturalism, priority monism, etc., OK.

Comments
JAD @ 77: "Atheistic naturalism provides zero foundation for interpersonal moral obligation or universal human rights." This is absolutely true. The strangest thing about atheism (to me) is how its adherents boldly proclaim that no objective moral standards exist, while at the same time boldly proclaiming that objective moral standards DO exist, i.e. they are morally right and you are morally wrong. Bizarre.Truth Will Set You Free
January 21, 2017
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Atheistic naturalism provides zero foundation for interpersonal moral obligation or universal human rights. Biblical (Jewish-Christian) theism does provide such a foundation. That is an historical fact. Trying to undermine that fact with fallacious arguments does not provide a moral foundation for atheistic naturalism. In fact, it leaves no viable foundation at all, only ethical nihilism. Honest atheists concede this fact. So far our atheist interlocutors have failed to honestly address that issue. Rather, they have been flailing around, grasping at straws trying to create logically fallacious strawmen. Do they really believe that their arguments have any merit? When are they going to drop the pretense and posturing and attempt to address the main issue? My prediction is they won’t simply because they can’t. If they know this they are being dishonest, if they don’t they are daft (ignorant or stupid.) Personally I have given up trying to engage these people. It is hard to have an honest dialogue or debate with individuals who give zero evidence that they are even capable of being personally honest. Of course, if they have no real moral or ethical foundation for interpersonal moral obligation how could they have a standard of interpersonal honesty? Do they even comprehend basic logic well enough to understand the irrationality of their position? In other words, are they even being honest with themselves?john_a_designer
January 21, 2017
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Kairosfocus @74, Given that I am not the greatest possible being, that I exist and that I exist somewhere, the greatest possible being cannot exist everywhere. Similarly, the greatest possible being holds all powers minus my (modest) powers. Given my existence and powers, the greatest possible being does not hold all power.Origenes
January 21, 2017
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PS: A possible fairly brief beginning-point: http://bpa.ac.uk/answers/files/The%20idea%20of%20God.pdfkairosfocus
January 21, 2017
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Origines, I suggest you examine the philosophy of maximally great being. KFkairosfocus
January 21, 2017
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rvb8 @70
‘Is God omniscient, ALL Knowing?’
Obviously God knows enough to create all things, but my answer would be that this claim is incoherent. In order to validly make the claim, one has to be all-knowing oneself, and next one needs to check if God knows everything one knows — which is obviously absurd. Alternatively, one can be told by God that he is all knowing and choose to believe him. However, one cannot be sure that he is not mistaken.
‘Is God omnipotent, ALL Powerful?’
Obviously powerful enough to create all things, but if it is meant that God holds all power all the time, then again the claim seems to be incoherent. I am not God. I have some powers. So God does not hold all power.
‘Is God omnipresent, ALL Everywhere?’
No, if God is all everywhere, then there exists nothing but God. I am not God. I am somewhere. So God is not everywhere.Origenes
January 21, 2017
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Note: i/l/o the OP, all of this is happening while we have just had "Snowflake" rioting in Washington DC and the torching of someone's Limousine (a sign of utter disrespect for the property of small business people). KFkairosfocus
January 21, 2017
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RVB8, I shake my head. First, you are imposing your tastes and preferences (a straw god), in a context where your known worldview does not even get you to being a responsible, rational thinker and knower. Where and how do we get to a you capable of rising above delusion driven by blind chance and mechanical necessity, shaped by forces promoting survival, not acquiring and grounding truth to become knowledge? To this, on track record, you have no cogent answer, for the very good reason that this is a point of self referential incoherence of evolutionary materialism. Second, you don't seem to have even a nodding acquaintance with basic ethical theism, starting with the relevant philosophy of maximally great being, much less the fact that if Mr Ham is citing a general theological and philosophical view commonly found in creeds and works of systematic theology or explorations of the Idea of God, the attempt to taint by "do you agree with Ken Ham" becomes the worst sort of stereotypical and scapegoating ad hominem argument. Argument by oh you agree with a man I view as an idiot or worse, is a fail. I agree with Wesley, with the Angelic Doctor, with Augustine, with Paul, with Jesus. Indeed, with the great testimony and confession of the church over the centuries on the nature of God. I can even see where a Plato has an inkling. The view of ethical theism has a distinguished record across thousands of years, the attempt to characterise it as if it were the sort of nonsense spouted by those you see as your intellectual inferiors speaks far more tellingly about you than it does about Mr ham or those who you listed above. I suspect, you wish to imply that foreknowledge [as part of omniscience], combined with omnipotence leads to a loss of freedom on our part. Fail. By that power, God has made us in his image (which grounds our fundamental, quasi-infinite worth and equality in nature), and has endowed us with the power of reason and responsibility. He is an agent, and has acted to create other agents -- us. This is -- on comparative difficulties across worldviews -- the only serious candidate explanation of our known rationality, responsibility and capability to know even in small part. If you doubt this, simply engage the comparative difficulties at world root to see why I freely say this. Your attempt to create a further straw god, the god of superstitious fear fails also. Grossly, as caricaturing and projecting the worst sort of bigoted stereotypes, failing to recognise the vast difference between superstitious fear and attempted manipulation of forces in the world, and the serious thought framework, ethical theism. There are any number of people close at hand who demonstrate that an ethical theistic worldview is not the sort of crude grovelling you rhetorically project. You should be ashamed to resort to such street corner, village atheist rhetoric. As for oh, such a straw god would deserve to be rebelled against, do you not see that you are setting up a straw god in order to justify yourself in ingratitude and rebellion? (And if you imagine you are presenting a short form of the imagined knockdown argument from evil and/or the like, I suggest this shows you to be utterly out of date. See here on for a skeletal outline of why such arguments fail. ) I suggest you would be better served to seriously rethink your views and arguments in light of being better informed. KFkairosfocus
January 21, 2017
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Let's ask Ken Ham shall we? Q: 'Is God omniscient, ALL Knowing?' K: 'Yes.' Q: 'Is God omnipotent, ALL Powerful?' K: 'Yes.' Q: 'Is God omnipresent, ALL Everywhere?' K: 'Yes.' Do Kairos, DfO, BA, and others who post here agree with Ken on the questions above? If you do, then you must start asking serious questions such as, 'Is this a God I want to follow? Is this a God that desrves my respect? Is this a moral God?' You see, if this is the God who exists, then I want no part of His perversion, or creation, call it what you will. Seriously, He needs to be stood up to, not bowed down to. God can only be described in evolutionary terms, in our evolved need to be led, to cower, to grovel. If humanity really wants to evolve,, this shackle must be removed.rvb8
January 20, 2017
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DfO, sadly revealing -- rather reminds me of krystalnacht. KFkairosfocus
January 20, 2017
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Seversky asserts
An omniscient God who knows the future means there can be no free will. What He knows will happen, will happen regardless of what we might want.
You're confusing foreknowledge with determinism. Let's say that you make a free choice. Let's say before you make your choice and unbeknownst to you, I travel into the future and see what you're free choice will be. Does my knowledge suddenly make your choice not free? Maybe God can step out of time. In fact, if God actually created the space-time of our universe, then that is pretty reasonable to assume. So, according to John (John 3:16-18 NASB), Jesus also said
For God so loved the world, that He gave His only begotten Son, that WHOEVER believes in Him shall not perish, but have eternal life. For God did not send the Son into the world to judge the world, but that the world might be saved through Him. He who believes in Him is not judged; he who does not believe has been judged already, because he has not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.
Jesus is simply saying, trust me, I can save you from being condemned. You're free to choose. You can choose A. Yes, I know I'm selfish and sinful, and I want to accept the free gift of a full pardon and everlasting life as a gift from Jesus who loved me enough to die for me. or B. No, I don't want God in my life now or ever after. I think I'm a pretty good guy and besides, God has no right to judge me and I can find plenty of fault with God. You're absolutely and totally free to choose either A or B right now. What will you choose? A? Or B? -QQuerius
January 20, 2017
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Seversky, side-stepping and distracting still. You have already been directed to go to proper venues to deal with your exegetical problems (if you really want to deal with them), I will return focus to the OP, again, highlighting what is being ducked by use of the trifecta fallacy:
Why did liberal democracy arise in the West and nowhere else? Because of the influence of Christianity on Western politics. Consider the most famous expression of classical liberalism the world has ever known, the Declaration of Independence: “We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights . . .” Compare that passage to Galatians 3:28: “There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither slave nor free man, there is neither male nor female; for you are all one in Christ Jesus.” Paul’s message in Galatians was not political. He was making a theological statement about the equality of Christians in the body of Christ. Nevertheless, the implications of his argument for a predominantly Christian polity are nothing short of radical. It took a long time for these implications to sink in, but eventually it dawned on Christian thinkers that certain political institutions that had been taken for granted for all of human history were fundamentally incompatible with Christianity. Institutions such as slavery. If my slave is my brother in Christ, how can I continue to hold him in slavery? There isn’t a good answer to that question, and that is why abolitionism as a political movement arose in Christian Europe, and it is also why for the most part the abolitionists – from Wilberforce in England to Harriet Elisabeth Beecher Stowe in the United States – were Christians making Christian arguments to Christian political communities receptive to such arguments. As the Declaration expressly states, the Christian idea of equality of all men before God is the foundation of the political idea of the equality of all men under the law. Don’t take my word for it. Atheist professor Yuval Noah Harari agrees. In his international bestseller Sapiens: A Brief History of Humankind, Harari wrote: “The idea of equality is inextricably intertwined with the idea of creation. The Americans got the idea of equality from Christianity, which argues that every person has a divinely created soul, and that all souls are equal before God.” . . . . . For a couple of centuries, we in the West have enjoyed a polity based on an attempt to infuse Christian doctrines into our political practice. While the result has been far from perfect, compared to the great mass of men over the long stretch of history, that effort has produced a civilization that has been, by far, the freest, most prosperous, and most democratic the world has ever known. Is that civilization sustainable when its Christian foundations are crumbling under a relentless onslaught of metaphysical materialism? That question brings me to the title of this post. In recent months, the news has been full of stories about the “Snowflake” phenomenon on college campuses. We have read story after story about illiberal college students cracking down on anyone attempting to express any view contrary to progressive dogma. It is not hard to connect the dots here. The Snowflake movement is an offshoot of political correctness, which is in turn the handmaiden of progressivism, which is fascistic at its root. Properly understood, the Christian worldview, infused as it is with notions of the fallibility of man, supports an epistemological humility upon which true tolerance and pluralism can rest. Metaphysical materialism, not so much. Materialism denies any transcendent morality and the objective existence of justice. Might makes right. Is it any wonder that fully 70% of college students support restrictions on the right to free expression? Lincoln wrote that the principles of the Declaration are “the definitions and axioms of free society” and that the abstract truths in that document would “in all coming days . . . be a rebuke and a stumbling block to the very harbingers of reappearing tyranny and oppression.” Maybe. The Declaration is built on a Christian foundation. But what will happen if that foundation is destroyed when its essential truth claims are denied? We are about to find out. Darwin’s great triumph was not so much scientific as it was metaphysical. The publication of Origin of Species marked the beginning of materialism’s long march though our institutions, especially our universities. And we have an inkling of what it will look like when that march is finished and materialism reigns triumphant.
KFkairosfocus
January 20, 2017
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Dean_from_Ohio @ 60
Seversky @ 38:
Not only is the woman, Eve, portrayed as mostly to blame for both of them giving in to temptation, she and her descendants in perpetuity are punished with painful births and are to be subject to the man. That is both clearly misogynistic and an outrageous affront to basic principles of justice.
Based on what? On what platform do you stand to condemn God and the Bible? Read Romans 5 and tell me who, in the Christian world view, has the primary responsibility for the fall of mankind, or humankind if you will?
Your omniscient, omnipotent, omnibenevolent, omnipresent God has primary responsibility. Nothing happens but by His will and, as a perfect being, He doesn't make mistakes. If Adam and Eve were capable of being tempted and of giving in to that temptation then that is how they were created and their omniscient Creator would have known their limitations and weaknesses full well. He would also have known from the beginning what that outcome was going to be. Adam and Eve behaved as they were created to behave and as their Creator knew they would behave. Where is the justice in punishing them or the rest of us for that?
Let’s do a little thought experiment. Let’s say that you know abortion to be wrong, dead wrong, and you have the authority and the power to decide for everyone whether abortions will be permitted, and if so, to what extent, and what, if any, punishment should be meted out to those involved in the commission of that act. If you object to abortion used as an example (which is telling in itself), let’s pick a cause celebre of the Left, amassing wealth without regard to the poor.
As a believer in Western liberal democracy, it should not be for me or any other individual to decide these matters alone. It should be for a society of equals as a whole to decide what best serves them. In the case of abortion, I believe that the right to life should be extended to any detectable zygote or blastocyst except where there is a threat to the life or long-term heath of the mother. Anyone who wants to end abortion will have to persuade a majority of society that this should be the case and have a law passed to that effect. As for the uncontrolled accumulation of wealth by the fortunate few at the expense of the rest of us, again, society as whole must decide where to draw the line, if any. Personally, I find it obscene that one woman who is a marginally talented singer can earn more in a year than a nurse can make in a lifetime of hard and often unpleasant work. Society as a whole disagrees with me. They show which they really value by what they pay each.
I would submit that God knows what he is doing, and you do not, and your words are a remarkable example of both pettiness and dangerous foolishness.
Yes, God knows exactly what He is doing, He knows everything that has happened and He knows everything that will happen. That last is important. In the Bible, the account of Jesus telling Peter that he will deny knowing him three times before the cock crows is clear evidence that God knows the future. And if God knows the future then that future will happen. In the Bible, Peter did deny knowing Jesus three times. If this was bound to happen then Peter had no free will in the matter so can he be blamed for doing what he had no choice but to do? An omniscient God who knows the future means there can be no free will. What He knows will happen, will happen regardless of what we might want.
You owe thanks and praise to God that he abides by the latter and not the former.
I see very little about the God of the Old Testament to praise or give thanks for.Seversky
January 20, 2017
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Isn't it obvious that the doctrine of atheism leads to the conclusion of equal rights for women, blacks, and atheists?Mung
January 20, 2017
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Marfin @ 48
Seversky- Just as I have asked rvb8 for a definition of equality I ask the same of you please define equality, and also seeing you bring it up a definition of justice would be nice
For me, in this context, equality means that all members of a society should be entitled to the same opportunities, rights, respect for their interests and protections of same and the same treatment before the law, regardless of any other considerations. Justice is a process whereby, for example, if one member of society causes harm to another or infringes on their rights, then society or its appointed agents can investigate and, if necessary, take punitive action against the offender on behalf both of the victim and society as a whole. This is essential to any ordered society since otherwise people would turn to personal revenge or vendetta against others who, rightly or wrongly, are held to have harmed them in some way.Seversky
January 20, 2017
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kairosfocus @ 42
Anyone who would translate humble service — even, obedient to death — with ontological inferiority of being plunges at once into utterly destructive heresy.
I have no problem with voluntary service or submission but I do have a problem where it is coerced or assumed without warrant. If a Muslim woman chooses of her own free will to wear the hijab as a symbol of her faith or a sign of her piety I see nothing wrong with that. But where a woman is shamed by her peers into wearing one or even threatened with having acid thrown in her face if she doesn't then I most certainly have a problem with that. If students of a particular faith wish to gather together in school in order to pray then I have no problem with that. If the school mandates some form of daily religious observance which all students are compelled to attend, regardless of whether they are members of that faith or have no faith at all, then I have a problem with that - and I wasn't the only one in the case of compulsory school prayer in the US. If one tenet of a particular faith is that the woman shall always hold herself in submission to the man then I certainly have a problem with that as well. A man and a woman should be equal partners in a marriage, happy to serve each other out of their mutual love and respect. Neither submission nor subjection should have anything to do with that.Seversky
January 20, 2017
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Axel - that's a very interesting look at what is happening. It would otherwise seem strange that privatization would benefit the government, but it makes sense that there would be less responsibility for the same amount of taxpayer income.Silver Asiatic
January 20, 2017
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Silver Fox, the UK has been in the thrall of its plundering hybrid-Norman (norseman) ruling classes, since 1066. The latter had become so comfortable with their parasitism of occupation at home and empire abroad that the Germans had begun to industrially slaughter us before WWI. Indeed, that and the fear of Germany's concluding a trade-pact with Russia was the real motivation for Britain's waging that war. The British empire seems to have been simply a prolongation of that earlier Norman empire. Having said that, the Barbarian upstarts such as Thatcher (Baroness Lady Cardboard)and a certain NuLab(c) ex-PM, are far worse than today's Norman toffs - who are mostly very personable, nice types, although the literally fascistic, Tory backwoodsmen would have been a match for the likes of the 'leaderene' in their depraved power mania, and in fact were her puppeteers. The backwoodsmen, of course, had never gone away, but simply remained beavering away in the background, biding their time. Now returned to power in government, and more than present in the opposition, they re-privatised the railways (among all the other public assets that had been nationalised, because incompetently managed privately), they increasingly under-funded British Rail, then, still effectively owning the MSM, had TV comedians (in more sense than one, alas) making British Rail a staple joke in their repertoire. Now, the monied people responsible for the re-privatisation, who are perhaps the only ones who can afford to travel by train, are complaining bitterly at both the ticket charges and the shameful over-crowding of the carriages and corridors.Axel
January 20, 2017
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Argument, EvilSnack!?!? The law of the jungle is what it is. To cast it, under Rand's pen, as a philosophy is as clear an example of putting lipstick on a pig as I can imagine. Actually, Hitler had the same arrested moral development, i.e. arrested at the 'Young Emperor' stage of infant development, though he wasn't inAyn enough to designate it as a philosphy, putting it instead very plainly : "Barbarism is not something to be ashamed of ; it purifies a nation."Axel
January 20, 2017
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rvb8
Norway discovered oil in the 1950s and unlike Britain, made the operation state owned and operated, it now is one of the most, if not the most solvent nations on earth; Norway said we don’t want BP, Exonn, Shell etc, we will have Norway Statoil; very ‘community’ minded don’t you think?
I find the emergence and growth of neo-Nazi groups in Norway (and Scandinavia in general) to be an interesting topic to read about.Silver Asiatic
January 20, 2017
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rvb8, contrary to your claim, you have no clue what equality truly means
Words & Dirt - Quotes 10-21-2015 - by Miles Raymer Excerpt: Let us try to translate the most famous line of the American Declaration of Independence into biological terms:
We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable rights, that among these are life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness.
According to the science of biology, people were not ‘created’. They have evolved. And they certainly did not evolve to be ‘equal’. The idea of equality is inextricably intertwined with the idea of creation. The Americans got the idea of equality from Christianity, which argues that every person has a divinely created soul, and that all souls are equal before God. However, if we do not believe in the Christian myths about God, creation and souls, what does it mean that all people are ‘equal’? Evolution is based on difference, not on equality. Every person carries a somewhat different genetic code, and is exposed from birth to different environmental influences. This leads to the development of different qualities that carry with them different chances of survival. ‘Created equal’ should therefore be translated into ‘evolved differently’.,,, So here is that line from the American Declaration of Independence translated into biological terms:
We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men evolved differently, that they are born with certain mutable characteristics, and that among these are life and the pursuit of pleasure.
http://www.words-and-dirt.com/words/quotes-10-21-2015/
bornagain77
January 20, 2017
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PPS: RVB8, care to answer Plato's concerns about evolutionary materialism and where it ends?
Ath [in The Laws, Bk X 2,350+ ya]. . . .[The avant garde philosophers and poets, c. 360 BC] say that fire and water, and earth and air [i.e the classical "material" elements of the cosmos], all exist by nature and chance, and none of them by art . . . [such that] all that is in the heaven, as well as animals and all plants, and all the seasons come from these elements, not by the action of mind, as they say, or of any God, or from art, but as I was saying, by nature and chance only [ --> that is, evolutionary materialism is ancient and would trace all things to blind chance and mechanical necessity] . . . . [Thus, they hold] that the principles of justice have no existence at all in nature, but that mankind are always disputing about them and altering them; and that the alterations which are made by art and by law have no basis in nature, but are of authority for the moment and at the time at which they are made.-
[ --> Relativism, too, is not new; complete with its radical amorality rooted in a worldview that has no foundational IS that can ground OUGHT, leading to an effectively arbitrary foundation only for morality, ethics and law: accident of personal preference, the ebbs and flows of power politics, accidents of history and and the shifting sands of manipulated community opinion driven by "winds and waves of doctrine and the cunning craftiness of men in their deceitful scheming . . . " cf a video on Plato's parable of the cave; from the perspective of pondering who set up the manipulative shadow-shows, why.]
These, my friends, are the sayings of wise men, poets and prose writers, which find a way into the minds of youth. They are told by them that the highest right is might,
[ --> Evolutionary materialism -- having no IS that can properly ground OUGHT -- leads to the promotion of amorality on which the only basis for "OUGHT" is seen to be might (and manipulation: might in "spin") . . . ]
and in this way the young fall into impieties, under the idea that the Gods are not such as the law bids them imagine; and hence arise factions [ --> Evolutionary materialism-motivated amorality "naturally" leads to continual contentions and power struggles influenced by that amorality at the hands of ruthless power hungry nihilistic agendas], these philosophers inviting them to lead a true life according to nature, that is,to live in real dominion over others [ --> such amoral and/or nihilistic factions, if they gain power, "naturally" tend towards ruthless abuse and arbitrariness . . . they have not learned the habits nor accepted the principles of mutual respect, justice, fairness and keeping the civil peace of justice, so they will want to deceive, manipulate and crush -- as the consistent history of radical revolutions over the past 250 years so plainly shows again and again], and not in legal subjection to them [--> nihilistic will to power not the spirit of justice and lawfulness].
kairosfocus
January 20, 2017
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PS: here is my initial analysis at UD: https://uncommondescent.com/courts/going-to-the-roots-of-lawfulness-and-justice-by-way-of-king-alfreds-book-of-dooms/ (And yes, I argue that until C17 - 18, modern democracy was not possible, absent printing with Bibles in wide circulation, growing literacy [fuelled by printing and the accessibility of the Scriptures] a reformation and revivals that opened up hearts, and leaders with hearts strangely warmed. It is in that context that the process of governance reforms was able to move ahead that resulted in modern liberty and linked constitutional democracy, with the USA the pivotal breakthrough.)kairosfocus
January 20, 2017
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RVB8, I suggest you ponder how this thread is being wrenched off focus i/l/o the issue of the classic dishonest trifecta rhetorical pattern of red herring distractors dragged across the trail that leads to truth, and led away to handy strawmen soaked in ad hominems and set alight to cloud, confuse, choke, poison and polarise the atmosphere. That speaks volumes, as you know full well that if you were interested in actual serious sorting out of theological questions, there are competent fora out there with more than adequate answers. This is not that forum, so it can only be that you find yourself driven to try to drag away from where you do not want to go. That speaks volumes, revealing volumes. (BTW, if you do actually wish to address matters seriously, I suggest you start here on as a 101, with here also in context as a way to look at the wider problem of evils post Plantinga -- actually, post Boethius.) The core issue from the OP remains cogent and pivotal, whether or not studiously ducked and dodged:
Why did liberal democracy arise in the West and nowhere else? Because of the influence of Christianity on Western politics. Consider the most famous expression of classical liberalism the world has ever known, the Declaration of Independence: “We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights . . .” Compare that passage to Galatians 3:28: “There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither slave nor free man, there is neither male nor female; for you are all one in Christ Jesus.” Paul’s message in Galatians was not political. He was making a theological statement about the equality of Christians in the body of Christ. Nevertheless, the implications of his argument for a predominantly Christian polity are nothing short of radical. It took a long time for these implications to sink in, but eventually it dawned on Christian thinkers that certain political institutions that had been taken for granted for all of human history were fundamentally incompatible with Christianity. Institutions such as slavery. If my slave is my brother in Christ, how can I continue to hold him in slavery? There isn’t a good answer to that question, and that is why abolitionism as a political movement arose in Christian Europe, and it is also why for the most part the abolitionists – from Wilberforce in England to Harriet Elisabeth Beecher Stowe in the United States – were Christians making Christian arguments to Christian political communities receptive to such arguments. As the Declaration expressly states, the Christian idea of equality of all men before God is the foundation of the political idea of the equality of all men under the law. Don’t take my word for it. Atheist professor Yuval Noah Harari agrees. In his international bestseller Sapiens: A Brief History of Humankind, Harari wrote: “The idea of equality is inextricably intertwined with the idea of creation. The Americans got the idea of equality from Christianity, which argues that every person has a divinely created soul, and that all souls are equal before God.” . . . . . For a couple of centuries, we in the West have enjoyed a polity based on an attempt to infuse Christian doctrines into our political practice. While the result has been far from perfect, compared to the great mass of men over the long stretch of history, that effort has produced a civilization that has been, by far, the freest, most prosperous, and most democratic the world has ever known. Is that civilization sustainable when its Christian foundations are crumbling under a relentless onslaught of metaphysical materialism? That question brings me to the title of this post. In recent months, the news has been full of stories about the “Snowflake” phenomenon on college campuses. We have read story after story about illiberal college students cracking down on anyone attempting to express any view contrary to progressive dogma. It is not hard to connect the dots here. The Snowflake movement is an offshoot of political correctness, which is in turn the handmaiden of progressivism, which is fascistic at its root. Properly understood, the Christian worldview, infused as it is with notions of the fallibility of man, supports an epistemological humility upon which true tolerance and pluralism can rest. Metaphysical materialism, not so much. Materialism denies any transcendent morality and the objective existence of justice. Might makes right. Is it any wonder that fully 70% of college students support restrictions on the right to free expression? Lincoln wrote that the principles of the Declaration are “the definitions and axioms of free society” and that the abstract truths in that document would “in all coming days . . . be a rebuke and a stumbling block to the very harbingers of reappearing tyranny and oppression.” Maybe. The Declaration is built on a Christian foundation. But what will happen if that foundation is destroyed when its essential truth claims are denied? We are about to find out. Darwin’s great triumph was not so much scientific as it was metaphysical. The publication of Origin of Species marked the beginning of materialism’s long march though our institutions, especially our universities. And we have an inkling of what it will look like when that march is finished and materialism reigns triumphant.
That is what you and others of like ilk need to soberly face, at the brink of a crumbling cliff. In that context, I find it diagnostically highly significant that there seems to e simply no epic movie on the decline and fall of Athenian democracy, with a particular focus on Alcibiades as a key historical figure. There would be abundant and rich material for a movie on the grand scale there and a well done non-cynical movie would draw support from hundreds of millions. If close to reality, it would even be useful in Civics classes and with an accompanying seminar, in College. Easy money, big money. So, why is it still on the table? because, it would not serve the world-cultural and ideological/agitprop agendas of those who dominate relevant institutions. That is, the bias comes out yet again in what we do NOT see. Just as the BBC news item that hit me like a bombshell by speaking of 50+ million abortions per year as current global total studiously avoided drawing out the implications that my simple calculation show: a linear growth model across 40 years peaking at 50 mn/yr then slice off 20% to be conservative. 800+ million abortions constituting the worst holocaust ever. The central evil in our time, one that utterly warps and benumbs consciences, professions, institutions, education, media and parliaments alike. To feed a holocaust that mounts up at a million more victims per WEEK. The silent holocaust. Here's my diagnosis: unless someone can respond appropriately to this test of conscience, his or her thought, speech, argument and the like on ethical things or things affected by ethics will be utterly untrustworthy. (Where, as the very act of reasoning to seek truth and right exists under the governance of conscience pointing to our being under binding moral law, this directly implies that the reasoning and arguments of anyone unable to pass such a test will in the global context be highly suspect, and in the narrow confines of particular matters, needs very careful scrutiny, for that person is benumbed and warped by blood guilt. As one sign of this, such a person will stubbornly resit the point that there comes a threshold where the cup of the iniquity of the Amorites, or the Israelites, or the Babylonians, or the Romans, or the Germans, or the Americans, or our Civilisation as a whole fills, brims over and becomes a spring of taint across the face of the earth. At that point, such a community has become a plague upon the earth and -- having disregarded the logic of moral government, and having defied correction, there remains only, destruction else the cancer spread and taint the whole. Where also, this generation is obviously the wickedest in history, with utterly unprecedented evil rampant on a scale that has never been seen before. the blood of 800+ million innocents cries up from the ground against us, and we cannot answer to it. In biblical terms, Mene, Mene, Tekel Uparsin.) It is time to wake up. KFkairosfocus
January 20, 2017
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rvb8- Ruinous to the notion of equality you say , but then admit that this notion you speak of is no more than your self serving opinion .Is it unequal to have so few white guys on the average NFL team is it unequal to have no women at all on any NFL team , is it equal or unequal that in most western countries that if a woman wants to abort her child that the man whose child it also is, has no say.If someone takes my life should their life be taken or is my life less equal to their life. I would love to hear the wisdom and opinion of rvb8 on these matters please tell me how you know, and if someone disagrees with you, who is right and who is wrong. and if your decision is final is that not inequality.Marfin
January 20, 2017
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I ground it in the self serving notion that if I follow my defined view, then hopefully most other people will also follow this definition. I know you are fishing for a God foundation to understanding equality. I find that foundation to be utterly unecessary, and indeed in many points of history positively ruinous to the notion of 'equality'. Christianity in the West is being challenged today by atheists, who even as late as 1970 in the West (and not even today in the East, Middle East, Russia, Africa), are beginning to feel safe enough (yes! safe enough) to discard with faith, religions, gods, and holy books. After 2000 years of persecution and, 'inequality', atheists are at last allowed (in small parts of society) an 'equal' hearing, and the religious are not happy. Have a nice evening, Cheers:)rvb8
January 20, 2017
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Rvb8 - How do you know the definition you have just given me is the right definition, if someone disagree`s with your definition how can you know which one of them is the right definition of equality. I am not trying to be smart here I am just making the point that unless you can ground your definition in something concrete, then it is just opinion, and why would your opinion on equality be any more valid than anyone else`s and why would we base anything as important as equality on the opinion of any man or woman.Marfin
January 20, 2017
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I know what 'equality' means Marfin, but I suspect what I can define in one sentence, you will need thousands to obfuscate: 'Equality', then is the profound respect for all human beings, to the exclusion of what a God has told you about the evils of Canaanites, Hittites, Hindus, Catholics, Asians, Africans, European, or any other God ordained infidel. I know this will not be enough for you, and you and BA will blather on with pointless, obscure references, and meanderings, but as Martin Luther said, "Here I stand, I can do no other!"rvb8
January 19, 2017
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Seversky- Just as I have asked rvb8 for a definition of equality I ask the same of you please define equality, and also seeing you bring it up a definition of justice would be nice.Marfin
January 19, 2017
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rvb8- Just as I suspected deafening silence re a definition of equality, just as with the definition of morality I asked you for.At this point you need to be honest with your self, and ask why you choose to engage in and defend a position you cannot define, you need to ask if I cannot define them then maybe my position on them is ill informed and wrong maybe I need to do some soul searching and follow where the evidence leads and not hold to a world view just because its the one I prefer.Marfin
January 19, 2017
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