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Someone please send Barbara Forrest a thesaurus

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Barbara Forrest responds to David DeWolf in The News Star.

Early in the article Forrest puts forth a false dichotomy which undermines all that follows. My emphasis:

DeWolf’s portrayal of ID as scientific is falsified by his defining it as involving the “actions of an intelligent agent as the cause of phenomena that natural processes are unlikely to produce.” If phenomena are not naturally caused, they are supernaturally caused. There is no other alternative.

Not only are there other alternatives but supernatural isn’t even an antonym for natural. If we go to a thesaurus and look up the word natural we find listed among the antonyms the words technological and artificial. Notably we do not find the word supernatural listed as an antonym.

Maybe Babs should spend more time improving her vocabulary and less time disproving the assertion that ID is science.

Of course there’s an alternative explanation here. Perhaps Forrest is well aware that natural/supernatural is a false dichotomy and she’s just an unapologetic liar. In fact that makes more sense as you usually can’t get a PhD without at least a college entrance-level vocabulary.

Comments
Again, if we go to a dictionary for a definition of supernatural we find:
1: of or relating to an order of existence beyond the visible observable universe ; especially : of or relating to God or a god, demigod, spirit, or devil 2 a: departing from what is usual or normal especially so as to appear to transcend the laws of nature b: attributed to an invisible agent (as a ghost or spirit)
Let's apply this to the flagellum and ask when and where an ID proponent ever said that the design or construction of a flagellum requires transcending the laws of nature. Surely Babs knows none did and she surely knows the definition of supernatural. She uses the term solely to foster a false equivalency between ID and religion. That makes her a candidate for inclusion in a leftist version of the book Lies (And the Lying Liars Who Tell Them). A sequel named "Lies (And the Gullible Chumps Who Believe Them)" should include Judge John Jones who presided over the Kitzmiller trial where Forrest perjured herself on the witness stand. DaveScot
February 9, 2009
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Harville, What ID is saying is that input of intelligence is indicated by the actual evidence, but there is nothing in the actual evidence that points to anything acting outside of natural law. Therefore it would be incorrect for ID to follow the current paradigm by imagining things that are not infered by rational observation. Being the materialist I assume you are, I am certain that you will be pleased to see that someone is finally relying solely on the material evidence for their conclusions.Upright BiPed
February 9, 2009
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Dave, the problem is that the term natural is often used in the ID debate in ways that clearly do not mean non-technological or non-artificial.
Natural, as IDists use the word, pertains to nature, operating freely. Meaning no agency involvement.
For instance, when naturalism is decried, which it often is on this board and by Discovery fellows, obviously they aren’t referring to a philosophy that denies the existence of technology and artifacts.
No just the philosphy that denies the fact that natural processes cannot account for the origin of nature because natural processes only exist in nature.Joseph
February 9, 2009
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"What's another word for thesaurus?" - Steven Wright ;-)Borne
February 9, 2009
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So you’re saying you believe that there is no supernatural component to the human mind. BaaWAHAHAHAHAHtribune7
February 9, 2009
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Davescot: So you're saying you believe that there is no supernatural component to the human mind. That's good, but I don't think O'Leary is going to agree with you!B L Harville
February 9, 2009
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Dave, the problem is that the term natural is often used in the ID debate in ways that clearly do not mean non-technological or non-artificial. For instance, when naturalism is decried, which it often is on this board and by Discovery fellows, obviously they aren't referring to a philosophy that denies the existence of technology and artifacts.R0b
February 9, 2009
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I would say that the ID community should ignore her due to the poor quality of her arguments No way!!!! tribune7
February 9, 2009
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“actions of an intelligent agent as the cause of phenomena that natural processes are unlikely to produce.” If phenomena are not naturally caused, they are supernaturally caused. There is no other alternative. And since when is "intelligent agent" a synonym for "supernatural"? I'm an intelligent agent. I guess that makes me The Leprechaun!!!! tribune7
February 9, 2009
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And while "Babs" is looking up the word natural in her thesaurus, she might also take the trouble to explain how it is she knows scientifically that the properties of the cosmos are such that it is a completely closed system of natural cause and effect where matter and energy can only be affected by chance and/or necessity. Perhaps she would be good enough to cite some research studies in the relevant scientific journals where this hypothesis is confirmed and also provide some suggestions as to how it might be falsified and what direction further research into this completely scientific question might go. And she (or any of her fellow anti-ID mavens) needs to do all this without introducing any philosophical, theological or mataphysical speculations into the discussion. How about Dr. Forrest...can you help us out here?DonaldM
February 9, 2009
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Funny thing is, I would say that the ID community should ignore her due to the poor quality of her arguments but somehow she's managed to get a position of authority.Patrick
February 9, 2009
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To Forrest, a thesaurus is just another type of dinosaur- most likely an ancestor of the birds. So don't tell her it is a thesaurus that would only confuse her.Joseph
February 9, 2009
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