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Sorry Dr Barr, “Chance By Design” is an Oxymoron

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Christians have traditionally believed that the design of living things is evidence of God’s handiwork.  For millennia they agreed with the psalmist who gave thanks to God for the obvious and exquisite design of his body:  “For You formed my inward parts; You wove me in my mother’s womb.  I will give thanks to You, for I am fearfully and wonderfully made . . .”  Psalm 139:13-14. 

Honest atheists do not dispute the Christian belief that living things appear to be designed.  Even world famous arch-atheist Richard Dawkins concedes this point, writing that “Biology is the study of complicated things that give the appearance of having been designed for a purpose.”  Richard Dawkins, The Blind Watchmaker.  Dawkins does not mince words.  According to him the appearance of design in living things is not subtle, but rather is “overwhelmingly” impressed on us.  Id.  To be sure, Dawkins goes on to explain why he believes the appearance of design is an illusion and that natural selection combined with random chance are sufficient to account for the appearance of design without having to resort to a designer.  

And then you have theistic evolutionists like Stephen M. Barr who want to have it both ways.  Barr has an article in the December issue of First Things entitled Chance, By Design in which he rehashes arguments in support of theistic evolution that he has made a number of times before.  See here and here.  Even though he is a Christian, Barr is perfectly happy to accept Darwinian evolution.  So how is Barr different from Dawkins?  In one sense, he is not.  Christian Barr and atheist Dawkins both assert that mechanical necessesity and random chance are sufficient to account for the apparent design of living things.  Both Dawkins and Barr hang a sign on the front door that says “no designers need apply.”   

The difference is that Barr is willing to crack the back door open just a little and let God in so long as he behaves himself and doesn’t make a ruckus.  Barr does this by asserting that when he uses the word “random,” he is not using it in the same way Dawkins does.  Dawkins would say that, by definition, a “random process” is undirected, but Barr says that when he uses the word random he means “only apparently random but really directed at a deeper level of existence.”  As I have written before: 

Barr believes that, in Einstein’s famous phrase, God really does play dice with the universe. But according to Barr, God, has loaded the dice so that they rolled “life,” however improbable that might have been (like a thousand 7′s in a row with real dice), and God’s dice loading is so clever that the “fix” can never be detected empirically.

 

In this way Barr maintains membership in the academic cool kids club by espousing a Darwinian account of origins that is indistinguishable from the account of origins atheists Dawkins and Dennnett espouse. Yet he keeps the “T” in his “TE” by saying that at a wholly different level of existence God fixed the game so that “random” is not really random but directed.

 

Both Barr and Dawkins appeal to random chance to explain the apparent design of life.  The only difference is that Dawkins believes the dice are fair and Barr believes they are fixed.   

The interesting thing about Barr’s argument is that it cannot be refuted by appeals to either logic or evidence.  It is not logically impossible for God to create through a process that appears to be random but is in fact directed. And no amount of evidence for design can undermine Barr’s position.  I assume Barr would concede with Dawkins that the appearance of design in living things is “overwhelming,” but to Barr the overwhelming evidence of his own eyes is irrelevant.  Because no matter how overwhelming that evidence may be, Barr can always follow Dawkins in asserting it is an illusion.  

In summary, there are three positions in play here. 

(1) The traditional theist observes the overwhelming appearance of design in living things and is content to conclude that things are they way they appear to be, i.e., that living things appear to be designed for a purpose because they are in fact designed for a purpose. 

(2) The atheist admits that the appearance of design in living things is overwhelming but asserts that the appearance of design is an illusion and in reality natural law and random chance combine to produce a result that only appears to be designed.   

(3) The Barr-type theistic evolutionist admits that the appearance of design in living things is overwhelming but asserts — like the atheist — that the appearance of design is an illusion and in reality natural law and random chance combine to produce a result that only appears to be designed.  The TE then goes one step further by asserting that the explanation of the illusion of design is itself an illusion, because the randomness of evolution is in fact directed.   

Barr says that the appearance of design must give way to an appeal to random chance which in turn must give way to design.  Why go through this convoluted process?  If you are going to conclude “design” at the end, why not just stick with the conclusion of “design” at the beginning?  The answer, I believe, lies in the fact that Barr is a Darwinian true believer.  He really does believe the evidence compels him to concede that the Darwinian evolution is true.  Yet as a Christian he also feels compelled to concede that God created living things.  And when people feel compelled to believe contradictory things there is no end to the linguistic knots they will tie for themselves (like saying that “random” means “directed”).   

If the empirical case for Darwinian evolution were unanswerable one might be tempted by Barr’s position (though it seems to me that if that were the case Dawkins’ position would be even more tempting).  But the empirical case for Darwinian evolution is far from unanswerable.  In fact, while it will probably remain textbook orthodoxy for some time, it is becoming increasingly apparent that Darwinian evolution is an analog relic of the Victorian steam age trying (and not succeeding very well) to find its way in a digital information age.  As we have discussed several times in these pages recently, even thoughtful atheists are starting to doubt whether Emperor Charles is quite so fully clothed as they once thought.  And just at a time when even atheists are starting to jump ship, TE’s like Barr come along to double down on their commitment to a failing theory.   

I miss Richard John Neuhaus.  When he ran the show First Things was always willing to give ID proponents a fair hearing.  Barr and his ilk now control the FT editorial board, and, sadly, that once great journal is sliding slowly into irrelevance.  I will leave it to others to judge whether there is a connection between those two facts. 

Comments
there is an interesting back and forth between Jay Richards and Alvin Plantinga that touches on the periphery of this topic that you might find interesting. Richards critiques Plantinga’s book, “Where the Conflict Really Lies.” I take Richards’ side, but Plantinga gets a good chance to make his case in the interchange which, as I recall includes two or three responses from each man.
Thank you for bringing this to my attention! I found Richards' review and criticism, along with one of Plantinga's replies. I suppose it will not surprise you to learn that I thought Plantinga makes a stronger case. In fact, I very much enjoyed Plantinga's Where the Conflict Really Lies and learned a lot from it. For one thing, it gave me a deeper appreciation of Paley, and that's important. The only part of the book I found flawed is the "evolutionary argument against naturalism." So now I'm reading Naturalism Defeated?: Essays on Plantinga's Evolutionary Argument against Naturalism to figure out what exactly is going on with that argument.Kantian Naturalist
November 13, 2012
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Hi StephenB @ 30
CLAVDIVS: Yet Barr denies that evolution is unguided – as I quoted above. He said, quoting Aquinas: STEPHENB: In the above guote from Aquinas, Barr did not say that he believes in “guided evolution.” He simply provided a quote from Aquinas, a quote that could easily be interpreted as an argument for guided evolution or for unguided evolution. Take your pick. Barr is trying to make it appear as if Aquinas would support Darwin’s notion of randomness, which is nowhere close to the truth. Darwin is referring to ontological chance; Aquinas was referring to epistemological chance.
Who cares what Darwin's notion was? This thread is about Barr's notion. And how can you possibly interpret Barr and Aquinas as supporting unguided evolution? They were crytal clear that they opposed the idea. Barr criticises those who claim evolution is unguided as "straying beyond" science, and he cited not just Aquinas but Catholic doctrine:
"Many neo-Darwinian scientists, as well as some of their critics, have concluded that if evolution is a radically contingent materialistic process driven by natural selection and random genetic variation, then there can be no place in it for divine providential causality... Thus, even the outcome of a purely contingent natural process can nonetheless fall within God’s providential plan."
Then you say:
STEPHENB: This writer is making the outrageous claim that such a process can be reconciled with God’s purposeful design and, to make matters worse, they are implicating implicate Aquinas and the Catholic Church in this outrage.
Your outrage is irrelevant. Barr cites Catholic doctrine and Aquinas and they completely support the orthodoxy of his view that God works providentially through contingency. Here's Aquinas again, in relevant part, as cited by Barr:
"Therefore, whatsoever divine providence ordains to happen infallibly and of necessity, happens infallibly and of necessity; and that happens from contingency, which the divine providence conceives to happen from contingency."
Aquinas couldn't have been more crystal clear. CheersCLAVDIVS
November 13, 2012
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KRock@28 No one who designs and builds, say a car, will suggest they directed the process, but yet still say the end product was the result of a random process. I just don’t see how the two processes can coexist with one another. No one who designs and builds a car is the Eternal God. If we forget the philosophy and just think biblically a moment, a man draws a bow "at a venture" and executes God's prophesied judgement on King Ahab. Complete chance in earthly terms, but fully designed in God's eternal, providential will. The Bible's full of it, so nature probably is too. But it's one way God is radically different from us. That's different from saying, as Ayala and some other TEs seem to, that God achieves his will by himself tossing dice, as it were hoping against hope that the archer's arrow might happen to hit Ahab. As a TE I've argued long and hard against that view, which as has been rightly said is logically contradictory. It also often ends up changing theology to make a God easily pleased by whatever a divinely-undirected evolution turns up. Folks at BioLogos have told me that God didn't plan mankind, but was pleased to relate to (and die for) the first intelligent species that turned up. That is a travesty of the Christian doctrine of Creation, in which God's will is enacted every second of every day everywhere. However, whether Stephen Barr is actually saying that is, from the posts above, doubtful. He sounds to me quite clear that "random" to him means "random to man, determined by God" - somebody should ask him. Though when I've asked at BioLogos more often than not I've been stonewalled. My original point, apparently missed by StephenB, was that if God's will is behind earthly chance (eg through determining quantum events as R J Russell or J Polkinghorne seem to suggest), the very existence of improbable outcomes is actually evidence for it. In your terms, cars simply don't assemble without a mind in the process somewhere, even if the mechanics of the assembly line are throughly understood. Chance is never a cause of anything, as B B Warfield rightly said a century ago.Jon Garvey
November 13, 2012
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Kantian Naturalist, there is an interesting back and forth between Jay Richards and Alvin Plantinga that touches on the periphery of this topic that you might find interesting. Richards critiques Plantinga's book, "Where the Conflict Really Lies." I take Richards' side, but Plantinga gets a good chance to make his case in the interchange which, as I recall includes two or three responses from each man.StephenB
November 12, 2012
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Darwinian Evolution, as adopted by Theistic Evolutionists, is perceived to be both directed and undirected from a Divine perspective, which is why it is a self contradictory position. If it were merely a case of being directed from a Divine perspective and perceived as undirected from a human perspective, the contradiction would not be so stark. Darwin did not merely propose epistemological randomness; he proposed ontological randomness. Random variation and natural selection are supposed to represent reality. It is the so-called “appearance of design” that is to be relegated to perception.
If this is really the TE position, then I shall defer to your authority on the matter. I had thought, perhaps naively, that the TE position was to agree with Darwin on the epistemology (hence the E) but to disagree with Darwin on the ontology (hence the T). I can say with some confidence that "really directed from a Divine perspective but perceived as undirected from a human perspective" is a position that Plantinga regards as intellectually coherent, though he is much warmer to design theory than theistic evolutionists usually are. (Notice, of course, that "intellectually coherent" and "intellectually satisfying" are not the same thing!)Kantian Naturalist
November 12, 2012
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..that should read, "and to make matters worse, [he] is implicating Aquinas and the Catholic Church in this outrage."StephenB
November 12, 2012
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CLAVDIS: Yet Barr denies that evolution is unguided – as I quoted above. He said, quoting Aquinas: In the above guote from Aquinas, Barr did not say that he believes in "guided evolution." He simply provided a quote from Aquinas, a quote that could easily be interpreted as an argument for guided evolution or for unguided evolution. Take your pick. Barr is trying to make it appear as if Aquinas would support Darwin's notion of randomness, which is nowhere close to the truth. Darwin is referring to ontological chance; Aquinas was referring to epistemological chance. "So with respect to Barr – whom this thread is about – you’re just plain wrong." No, I am not wrong. Barr associates himself with the same Darwinian science that Ayala, Miller, and Collins subscribe to. Barr argues for non design, but he uses the rhetoric of design when it serves his purpose. You need to grasp the level of dishonesty involved in the earlier statement that precedes Aquinas' quote:
Many neo-Darwinian scientists, as well as some of their critics, have concluded that if evolution is a radically contingent materialistic process driven by natural selection and random genetic variation, then there can be no place in it for divine providential causality,” the document observes. “But it is important to note that, according to the Catholic understanding of divine causality, true contingency in the created order is not incompatible with a purposeful divine providence.
Notice in the first sentence they are describing a RADICALY CONTINGENT MATERIALISTIC PROCESS. This is pure unguided Darwinistic evolution. Do you know what "radically contingent" means? It means pure chance and nothing but chance, without any direction. It means a process that is not goal directed. Do you know what "materialistic" means? It means composed solely of physical and chemical processes. This writer is making the outrageous claim that such a process can be reconciled with God's purposeful design and, to make matters worse, they are implicating implicate Aquinas and the Catholic Church in this outrage. They found the word "contingent" in one of Aquinas' passages and tried to associate it with Darwin's notion of radical contingency. Naturally, Stephen Barr is happy to partner up with them. Why people feel the need to promote this kind of dishonesty is beyond me.StephenB
November 12, 2012
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And then there are the folks who are both atheists and Darwinists who think that theistic evolution does not transgress against either evidence or logic. I'm in a league of my own! :)Kantian Naturalist
November 12, 2012
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@ KN "As I understand theistic evolution, it is random with respect to what we humans can observe and measure and directed with respect to divine activity. So, it is both random and directed because the former refers to ‘the human perspective’ and the latter to ‘the divine perspective’." But wouldn't any directed process by the divine eliminate the randomness of evolution regardless of whether we as humans can measure or observe it? I guess I view evolution as random, only if it has been a long natural process in which no divine hand was ever required, i.e. Neo Darwinian Evolution. No one who designs and builds, say a car, will suggest they directed the process, but yet still say the end product was the result of a random process. I just don’t see how the two processes can coexist with one another.KRock
November 12, 2012
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Hi StephenB @ 24
According to the Darwinian scheme, described by “scientists” who call themselves evolutionary biologists, evolution is a purposeless, mindless, unguided process. This is the common theme that young skulls full of mush read in their biology textbooks. It is also the position held by Francis Collins, Stephen Barr, Ken Miller, and most of the prominent Theistic Evolutionists.
Yet Barr denies that evolution is unguided - as I quoted above. He said, quoting Aquinas:
‘The effect of divine providence is not only that things should happen somehow, but that they should happen either by necessity or by contingency. Therefore, whatsoever divine providence ordains to happen infallibly and of necessity, happens infallibly and of necessity; and that happens from contingency, which the divine providence conceives to happen from contingency.’
So with respect to Barr - whom this thread is about - you're just plain wrong. That is all I'm pointing out. CheersCLAVDIVS
November 12, 2012
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"According to the Darwinian scheme, described by “scientists” who call themselves evolutionary biologists, evolution is a purposeless, mindless, unguided process." And when they say such things, they are going BEYOND the scientific evidence. For the sake of argument, lets say that random mutation and natural selection is responsible for producing all the variety of life on earth. Would it follow that the whole evolutionary history is wholly unguided and purposeless? The atheist would certaintly think so, but from a scientific point of view, such a conclusion cannot be ascertained from the scientific evidence because science is not equipped to tackle those types of issues. The minute the atheists says that mutations are unguided, he is going beyond the evidence and making a philosophical claim, since demonstrating that mutations are statistically random does NOT demonstrate that mutations were not planned or guided in a way that did not conform to any statistical pattern. The atheist biologist might say that the history of life doesnt exhibit any sort of pattern or guidence, but then he would be making a subjective judgment. Its important to distinguish between the philosophical musings of materialist biologists and the conclusions that can be appropriately drawn from the physical evidence. Its bad enough the atheists conflate these things with impunity, but we dont need to follow in their trail.kuartus
November 12, 2012
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Kantian Naturalist: "As I understand theistic evolution, it is random with respect to what we humans can observe and measure and directed with respect to divine activity." "So, it is both random and directed because the former refers to ‘the human perspective’ and the latter to ‘the divine perspective’." Not really. Darwinian Evolution, as adopted by Theistic Evolutionists, is perceived to be both directed and undirected from a Divine perspective, which is why it is a self contradictory position. If it were merely a case of being directed from a Divine perspective and perceived as undirected from a human perspective, the contradiction would not be so stark. Darwin did not merely propose epistemological randomness; he proposed ontological randomness. Random variation and natural selection are supposed to represent reality. It is the so-called "appearance of design" that is to be relegated to perception.StephenB
November 12, 2012
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CLAVDIVS @19, kuartus @20: According to the Darwinian scheme, described by “scientists” who call themselves evolutionary biologists, evolution is a purposeless, mindless, unguided process. This is the common theme that young skulls full of mush read in their biology textbooks. It is also the position held by Francis Collins, Stephen Barr, Ken Miller, and most of the prominent Theistic Evolutionists. Not only do these Theistic Evolutionists subscribe to the unguided process proposed by evolutionary biologists, they do not hesitate to call it a scientific fact. As Francis Ayala puts it, “It was Darwin's greatest accomplishment to show that the complex organization and functionality of living beings can be explained as the result of a natural process--natural selection--without any need to resort to a Creator or other external agent. ... The scientific account of these events does not necessitate recourse to a preordained plan, whether imprinted from the beginning or through successive interventions by an omniscient and almighty Designer. Biological evolution differs from a painting or an artifact in that it is not the outcome of preconceived design.” Theistic Evolutionists have a hard to reconciling this Ayala’s brand of evolution with God’s purposes, but that doesn’t stop them from trying. Typically, they write like schizophrenics. On the one hand, they dogmatically preach on the science of this purposeless, mindless process; on the other hand, they piously appeal to God as its purposeful, mindful agent. How they manage to maintain their mental health is a mystery. Most Darwinists, at least those that are honest, laugh out loud at their TE lapdogs. A few of them, though, like Eugenie Scott, Daniel Dennett, and Francis Ayala, recognize the potential for using these double-minded saps as potential agents for recruiting Christians, acting as partners to promote the contradictory notion that Darwin can be reconciled with God.StephenB
November 12, 2012
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How can something be a random process, yet still be a directed process?
As I understand theistic evolution, it is random with respect to what we humans can observe and measure and directed with respect to divine activity. So, it is both random and directed because the former refers to 'the human perspective' and the latter to 'the divine perspective'.Kantian Naturalist
November 12, 2012
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How can something be a random process, yet still be a directed process? Just curious...KRock
November 12, 2012
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Kuartus @ 20: for whatever it's worth, I agree entirely! Arrington @ 18: I concede the point with regards to Mayr, insofar as he thought that external teleology was not empirically detectable. But I take that to be consistent with affirming external teleology on other grounds, e.g. in light of theological considerations. Here I think that Sober is also quite clear: the theory of evolution entails that there is no empirically detectable way for the sources of variation to anticipate the adaptive needs of the organism. But that's consistent with holding that the variation is guided by some means that is not empirically detectable.Kantian Naturalist
November 12, 2012
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Obviously, people here dont understand that when atheistic evolutionists pronounce that evolution is unguided, that they are making a metaphysical pronouncement that does not necessarily follow from the scientific evidence garnered for the theory of evolution. IOW, The scientific evidence brought forth in favor of the modern synthesis of evolution is not of the type that can establish a philosophical conclusion, regardless of the claims of philosophically inept biologists. The question of purpose and whether evolution is guided falls outside of the resources of science to answer. People who say otherwise are conflating science and philosophy, something that dawkins and his ilk are guilty of.kuartus
November 12, 2012
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Hi Barry Arrington @ 17
Wrong. Barr says he subscribes to scientific unguided evolution.
Here are your own words on the matter:
But according to Barr, God, has loaded the dice so that they rolled “life,” ...
"Loading the dice" to ensure a particular outcome sure sounds like guidance to me. What else could it mean? And here are Barr's words on the matter, quoting Catholic doctrine:
Communion and Stewardship settles this point. “Many neo-Darwinian scientists, as well as some of their critics, have concluded that if evolution is a radically contingent materialistic process driven by natural selection and random genetic variation, then there can be no place in it for divine providential causality,” the document observes. “But it is important to note that, according to the Catholic understanding of divine causality, true contingency in the created order is not incompatible with a purposeful divine providence. Divine causality and created causality radically differ in kind and not only in degree. Thus, even the outcome of a purely contingent natural process can nonetheless fall within God's providential plan. According to St. Thomas Aquinas: ‘The effect of divine providence is not only that things should happen somehow, but that they should happen either by necessity or by contingency. Therefore, whatsoever divine providence ordains to happen infallibly and of necessity, happens infallibly and of necessity; and that happens from contingency, which the divine providence conceives to happen from contingency.' In the Catholic perspective, neo-Darwinians who adduce random genetic variation and natural selection as evidence that the process of evolution is absolutely unguided are straying beyond what can be demonstrated by science.”
It sure doesn't sound like Barr subscribes to unguided scientific evolution to me. CheersCLAVDIVS
November 12, 2012
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KN, one of us does not understand Mayr very well. I take him at his word when he says of the neo-Darwinian synthesis: “The new explanatory model replaced planned teleology by the haphazard process of natural selection.” Ernst Mayr, Nature of the Darwinian Revolution, Science 176 (June 2, 1972): 988, 987-81. or this: “The proponents of teleological theories [of evoluion], for all their efforts, have been unable to find any mechanisms (except supernatural ones) that can account for their postulated finalism.” Ernst Mayr, “Evolution,” Scientific American 239 (September 1978): 42, 39-47.Barry Arrington
November 12, 2012
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CLAVDIVS @ 16: “So, clearly, Barr does not subscribe to unguided “Darwinian” evolution.” Wrong. Barr says he does subscribe to unguided Darwinian evolution. “He subscribes to guided “scientific” evolution.” Wrong. Barr says he subscribes to scientific unguided evolution. The problem, as StephenB points out, is that Barr then says he believes evolution was guided. There is an obvious contradiction there.Barry Arrington
November 12, 2012
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Hi Barry Arrington @ 14
CLAVDIVS @ 13. In responding to StephenB’s comment you have failed to grasp the distinction between “evolution” and “Darwinian evolution.” StephenB is careful to state that his comment concerns the latter. He states, “According to Darwinian evolution . . .” As you note, certain theories of “evolution” can be reconciled with ID. “Darwinian evolution” is, as StephenB points out, an unguided process. If you don’t understand that point, I recommend that you read some of the elementary texts on the subject.
So, clearly, Barr does not subscribe to unguided "Darwinian" evolution. He subscribes to guided "scientific" evolution. Therefore, there's no contradiction in his views, and StephenB's comments to that effect are wide of the mark. CheersCLAVDIVS
November 12, 2012
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What "elementary texts" say is often quite different from what experts in the field say -- otherwise one is put in the position of using an elementary text to refute Mayr and Sober, who are quite right to distinguish between the randomness of variation -- in the sense of "random" that evolutionary theory requires -- and unguidedness, in the strong metaphysical sense that denies teleological realism. I think this is just one of those issues that Mayr and Sober get right and Dawkins (and Monod) get wrong, because Mayr and Sober is being much more careful than they are. (Interestingly enough, Mayr read Hans Jonas, a fascinating philosopher of biology I cannot recommend highly enough.)Kantian Naturalist
November 12, 2012
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CLAVDIVS @ 13. In responding to StephenB’s comment you have failed to grasp the distinction between “evolution” and “Darwinian evolution.” StephenB is careful to state that his comment concerns the latter. He states, “According to Darwinian evolution . . .” As you note, certain theories of “evolution” can be reconciled with ID. “Darwinian evolution” is, as StephenB points out, an unguided process. If you don’t understand that point, I recommend that you read some of the elementary texts on the subject.Barry Arrington
November 12, 2012
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StephenB
According to Darwinian evolution, which is, by definition, an unguided process, the finished product is solely a matter of ontological chance.
Who says biological evolution (descent with modification via selection, drift etc.) is "by definition" unguided? You? Atheists? Why should we accept a definition based on atheistic assumptions? Michael Behe doesn't accept that the scientific theory of evolution is by definition unguided. Alvin Plantinga doesn't either. In fact it has been stated repeatedly, here at Uncommon Descent, that ID does not deny the science of evolution; ID only denies the philosophical assumption that evolution is unguided and purposeless. So ID proponents at Uncommon Descent do not accept that the science of evolution is by definition unguided. So I don't accept your definition. Why should anyone? CheersCLAVDIVS
November 12, 2012
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Just to note -- there are many definitions of random floating around. Some of them are perfectly compatible with design. In fact, "random" *can* mean "non-mechanistic"... I doubt this is how Barr is using the word, but in any case, I wanted to point that out.johnnyb
November 12, 2012
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Completely off topic to this thread but I came across this article today and found it quite interesting, "Popular physics theory running out of hiding places." The link is below.. http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-20300100KRock
November 12, 2012
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Jon
...to say that something happens by chance is to accept that it is ultimately ordered by God’s providence, like sparrows that fall the ground, the cast of a lot etc. So, so far, no problem with Barr’s position.
There are two ways of looking at chance, epistemologically (how it appears to us) and ontologically (how it is really happening). So, it is unwarranted to use Aquinas' quote in an evolutionary context without making that calculation, especially since he was, in fact, a Young Earth Creationist. We can be absolutely certain that Aquinas, Mr. Design, would never have supported Darwin, Mr. No Design Necessary. According to Darwinian evolution, which is, by definition, an unguided process, the finished product is solely a matter of ontological chance, so much so that man's appearance here is thought to be only one of perhaps trillions of possibilities, all of which had an equal chance of becoming manifest. With this paradigm, evolution doesn't, so to speak, know where it is going or where it will end. It is not a goal-directed process. Quite the contrary, it was conceived as a substitute for a goal-directed process. According to Theism, an evolutionary process must be guided, meaning that the specific end result (homo sapiens) would conform to God's apriori intent, the finished product for which the process was intended. With this paradigm, evolution does know where it is going and where it will end. It is a goal-directed process. I submit that these two visions are incompatible. A process cannot be both goal directed and not goal directed. It's product cannot be both intended and not intended. Yet this is precisely what Barr (and the typical Theistic Evolutionist) is proposing. For Barr, evolution was goal directed and its finished product was intended, but it was also not goal directed and its finished product was not intended after all. Evolution knew where it was going, except that it didn't That is exactly what Barr is saying. Barry is right. It makes no sense.StephenB
November 12, 2012
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Hi Barry Arrington
The TE then goes one step further by asserting that the explanation of the illusion of design is itself an illusion, because the randomness of evolution is in fact directed.
So Barr affirms the reality of design, via a mechanism of directed, non-random mutations. Isn't this an ID position? If you disagree with the mechanism of directed mutations, what is your proposed alternative mechanism for the implementation of biological design? I'm all ears. CheersCLAVDIVS
November 12, 2012
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Particularly this part about the former priest Ayala: Why Is Evolution So Widely Believed? - William Lane Craig Excerpt: I was intrigued recently to learn that Ayala has apparently since given up on the adequacy of the neo-Darwinian mechanisms. Lyn Margulis, one of the so-called Altenburg 16, a group of evolutionary biologists who met in 2008 at a conference in Altenburg, Austria, to explore the mechanisms behind evolutionary change, reported, “At that meeting [Francisco] Ayala agreed with me when I stated that this doctrinaire neo-Darwinism is dead. He was a practitioner of neo-Darwinism, but advances in molecular genetics, evolution, ecology, biochemistry, and other news had led him to agree that neo-Darwinism’s now dead” (Suzan Mazur, The Altenberg 16 [Berkeley: North Atlantic, 2010], p. 285). http://www.reasonablefaith.org/why-is-evolution-so-widely-believedbornagain77
November 12, 2012
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Semi OT: Dr. Craig weighs in on Neo-Darwinism: Why Is Evolution So Widely Believed? http://www.reasonablefaith.org/why-is-evolution-so-widely-believedbornagain77
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