Space aliens – if we can see them they can see us

_{Denyse O'Leary

October 26, 2020

Exoplanets, Extraterrestrial life, Intelligent Design}

Share: Facebook; Twitter; LinkedIn; Flipboard; Print; Email

If they are even as advanced as we are, they could spot us using the methods we use to spot exoplanets. But if they are technologically advanced, wouldn’t they be here by now?

Let’s look at the possibility that the extraterrestrial intelligences could be alive and watching us right now, using the very same methods we use to spot exoplanets. A recent open-access astronomy paper tried to calculate which aliens could actually spot us by whether Earth dims the Sun when passing it …
But now, on the other side, let’s look at the Hart-Tipler Conjecture: “Extraterrestrial intelligent beings do not exist” (1980). If they did, within 300 million years, they would have developed advanced technology and be here by now.” Or maybe by 650,000 years. Either way, they have had enough time.
News, “Space aliens could in fact be watching us” at Mind Matters News

The Hart-Tipler conjecture (they don’t exist) is, of course, very unpopular in sci-fi. But let’s confront it, if only to move on to more promising (or maybe scarier) speculations. Here are some:

1.Are the Aliens We Never Find Obeying Star Trek’s Prime Directive? The Directive is, don’t interfere in the evolution of alien societies, even if you have good intentions. Assuming the aliens exist, perhaps it’s just as well, on the whole, if they do want to leave us alone. They could want to “fix” us instead…

2.How can we be sure we are not just an ET’s simulation? A number of books and films are based on the idea. Should we believe it? We make a faith-based decision that logic and evidence together are reasonable guides to what is true. Logical possibility alone does not make an idea true.

3.Did the smart machines destroy the aliens who invented them? That’s the Berserker hypothesis. A smart deadly weapon could well decide to do without its inventor and, lacking moral guidance, destroy everything in sight. Extinction of a highly advanced civilization by its own lethal technology may be more likely than extinction by natural disaster. They could control nature.

4.Researchers: The aliens exist but they are sleeping… And we wake them at our peril. The Aestivation hypothesis is that immensely powerful aliens are waiting in a digitized form for the universe to cool down from the heat their computers emit.

5.Maybe there are just very few aliens out there… The Rare Earth hypothesis offers science-based reasons that life in the universe is rare. Even if life is rare in the universe, Earth may be uniquely suited to space exploration, as the Privileged Planet hypothesis suggests.

Does science fiction hint that we are actually doomed? That’s the implication of an influential theory as to why we never see extraterrestrials. Depending how we read the Kardashev scale, civilizations disappear somewhere between where we are now and the advanced state needed for intergalactic travel.

Comments

WJM, as I pointed out three times now, the "large scale structures now reveal a surprising rotational coincidence for Earth in relation to the quasar and radio galaxy distributions in the universe:" Apparently you, philosophically, want this to be transferable to other places in the universe. It is not transferable.
Is there a violation of the Copernican principle in radio sky? – Ashok K. Singal – May 17, 2013 Abstract: Cosmic Microwave Background Radiation (CMBR) observations from the WMAP satellite have shown some unexpected anisotropies (directionally dependent observations), which surprisingly seem to be aligned with the eclipticcite {20,16,15}. The latest data from the Planck satellite have confirmed the presence of these anisotropiescite {17}. Here we report even larger anisotropies in the sky distributions of powerful extended quasars and some other sub-classes of radio galaxies in the 3CRR catalogue, one of the oldest and most intensively studies sample of strong radio sourcescite{21,22,3}. The anisotropies lie about a plane passing through the two equinoxes and the north celestial pole (NCP). We can rule out at a 99.995% confidence level the hypothesis that these asymmetries are merely due to statistical fluctuations. Further, even the distribution of observed radio sizes of quasars and radio galaxies show large systematic differences between these two sky regions. The redshift distribution appear to be very similar in both regions of sky for all sources, which rules out any local effects to be the cause of these anomalies. Two pertinent questions then arise. First, why should there be such large anisotropies present in the sky distribution of some of the most distant discrete sources implying inhomogeneities in the universe at very large scales (covering a fraction of the universe)? What is intriguing even further is why such anisotropies should lie about a great circle decided purely by the orientation of earth’s rotation axis and/or the axis of its revolution around the sun? It looks as if these axes have a preferential placement in the larger scheme of things, implying an apparent breakdown of the Copernican principle or its more generalization, cosmological principle, upon which all modern cosmological theories are based upon. http://arxiv.org/abs/1305.4134
bornagain77_{October 30, 2020
October
10
Oct
30
30
2020
06:37 AM
6
06
37
AM
PDT}

They are initials, Sandy.ET_{October 30, 2020
October
10
Oct
30
30
2020
06:13 AM
6
06
13
AM
PDT}

@ET ET are you ET?Sandy_{October 30, 2020
October
10
Oct
30
30
2020
06:08 AM
6
06
08
AM
PDT}

To ask where in the blazes are they with respect to extraterrestrials means you are ignoring centuries of evidence.ET_{October 30, 2020
October
10
Oct
30
30
2020
05:58 AM
5
05
58
AM
PDT}

BA77, I didn't make a claim other than that of my understanding of what CMBR shows (note how I began the comment, "IF I understand it correctly, ....") Maybe I'm missing it, but I still don't see how the CMBR data goes beyond establishing the uniqueness of the solar and axis plane. Perhaps you could tell me how any other planet with the same orbital plane and the same axis tilt in a solar system inhabiting the same universal plane would have a different CMBR observation?William J Murray_{October 30, 2020
October
10
Oct
30
30
2020
05:22 AM
5
05
22
AM
PDT}

WJM claims,
This (the anomalies in the CMBR) would only indicate (following the assumption and logic here) that intelligent life may be regulated to those Earth-like planets which have equators aligned on this plane in a solar system that moves along this plane.
Umm No. The anomalies correspond back to THIS earth and THIS solar system in particular. That is what makes it so 'spooky' and is also what makes it so antagonistic to those who would, for philosophical reasons, prefer that the earth and solar system were 'mediocre' rather than special in this universe. As I referenced, and you apparently ignored, the CMBR anomalies, (due to the extreme flatness of the universe), correspond to the large scale structures in the universe and those large scale structures now reveal a surprising rotational coincidence for Earth in relation to the quasar and radio galaxy distributions in the universe:
Is there a violation of the Copernican principle in radio sky? – Ashok K. Singal – May 17, 2013 Abstract: Cosmic Microwave Background Radiation (CMBR) observations from the WMAP satellite have shown some unexpected anisotropies (directionally dependent observations), which surprisingly seem to be aligned with the eclipticcite {20,16,15}. The latest data from the Planck satellite have confirmed the presence of these anisotropiescite {17}. Here we report even larger anisotropies in the sky distributions of powerful extended quasars and some other sub-classes of radio galaxies in the 3CRR catalogue, one of the oldest and most intensively studies sample of strong radio sourcescite{21,22,3}. The anisotropies lie about a plane passing through the two equinoxes and the north celestial pole (NCP). We can rule out at a 99.995% confidence level the hypothesis that these asymmetries are merely due to statistical fluctuations. Further, even the distribution of observed radio sizes of quasars and radio galaxies show large systematic differences between these two sky regions. The redshift distribution appear to be very similar in both regions of sky for all sources, which rules out any local effects to be the cause of these anomalies. Two pertinent questions then arise. First, why should there be such large anisotropies present in the sky distribution of some of the most distant discrete sources implying inhomogeneities in the universe at very large scales (covering a fraction of the universe)? What is intriguing even further is why such anisotropies should lie about a great circle decided purely by the orientation of earth’s rotation axis and/or the axis of its revolution around the sun? It looks as if these axes have a preferential placement in the larger scheme of things, implying an apparent breakdown of the Copernican principle or its more generalization, cosmological principle, upon which all modern cosmological theories are based upon. http://arxiv.org/abs/1305.4134
Thus contrary to the presupposition of Darwinists, and to the presupposition of ‘generic’ ID advocates, we find that the “tiny temperature variations” in the CMBR, (from the large scale structures in the universe, to the earth and solar system themselves), reveal teleology, (i.e. a goal directed purpose, a plan), that specifically included the earth from the start. ,,, The earth, from what our best science can now tell us, was specifically intended by God when he first created the universe.. That is what the science itself says, not what my philosophical presupposition is saying.bornagain77_{October 30, 2020
October
10
Oct
30
30
2020
04:57 AM
4
04
57
AM
PDT}

Continuing from #19, To make the scientific case Earth and human intelligence is unique in the universe, once it is established we live in a designed universe, probabilities are no longer applicable. One would have to find non-probabilistic evidence that the Earth is factually unique. I don't see how that can be done.William J Murray_{October 30, 2020
October
10
Oct
30
30
2020
04:50 AM
4
04
50
AM
PDT}

BA77, IF I understand it correctly, the CMBR data can be reasonably construed to indicate that there is a universally preferred plane (two-dimensional axis) that corresponds to (1) the 3-axis position of the solar system and (2) the 2-dimensional axis plane representing the equator of the Earth. IOW, if you extend a plane out from the equator, the CMBR indicates a universal temperature difference between what is universally located above that plane and what lies below it. This would only indicate (following the assumption and logic here) that intelligent life may be regulated to those Earth-like planets which have equators aligned on this plane in a solar system that moves along this plane. Let's also throw in other data, like our privileged position in the galaxy, our privileged distance from the sun, the specific nature of the moon, etc. The problem here is this: even with all that, you're importing probabilities that rely an a non-design premise to make a specific design argument - that the Earth is unique in the universe. Any number of Earths can exist with a functionally equivalent equatorial plane, solar dynamics and axis location, galactic position, qualities of the moon, etc. The argument that it is highly improbable that other such planets exist with the same axis orientation and finely-tuned conditions can only be made from the non-design perspective. It doesn't import into the design argument because a designed universe is not a probabilistic situation; it is a designed situation. Probabilistic arguments become irrelevant beyond showing that we are not in a probabilistic universe. It would be no more "unlikely" for the designer to design a billion such worlds with all of the intelligent-life specific characteristics along that axis plane than it would be to design one, because "likelihood" isn't even a thing under the design paradigm. The "why haven't we met them yet" argument assumes we have not. It assumes they haven't been here and interacting with us since the dawn of recorded history. Whether you consider the evidence "solid" or not, the evidence exists nonetheless, most prominently in the form of first-hand experiential testimony from a large number of people, many of them highly credible.William J Murray_{October 30, 2020
October
10
Oct
30
30
2020
04:32 AM
4
04
32
AM
PDT}

It seems to me that people who hold that God could have created as many worlds in this universe with creatures 'made in his image' as He wanted to are, scientifically speaking, in the same boat as Darwinists are. That is to say, scientifically speaking, we are, (whether you are a Darwinist or a 'generic' Intelligent Design advocate), still left with the question of, 'if the universe is teeming with extraterrestrial intelligences then where in blue blazes are they?' Contrary to however many 'ancient alien' episodes on the History channel you may have watched, (with that rather wild haired narrator), there simply is no hard evidence for extraterrestrial intelligences. The unanswered question is this, 'if they exist then where are they?' This is commonly known as the Fermi paradox.
The Fermi Paradox: Where Are All the Aliens? Excerpt: The story goes that in 1950 Enrico Fermi and his colleagues were discussing the existence of alien life over lunch. The question that Fermi asked the table became infamous in its simplicity: “Where is everybody?” The room fell silent because, well, nobody had an answer. Originally, the question was meant to attack the idea of interstellar travel, the possibility of which Fermi wasn’t confident in. But the question remains: if there were civilizations scattered across the stars by the billions, why haven’t we heard from them? It is from these questions, the Drake equation, and the Kardashev scale that the true paradox was born. The Milky Way is about 10 billion years old and 100,000 light-years across. If aliens had spaceships that could travel at 1 percent of the speed of light, the galaxy could have already been colonized 1,000 times. Why haven’t we heard from any other life? That very question is the Fermi paradox.,,, https://www.britannica.com/story/the-fermi-paradox-where-are-all-the-aliens
I guess the generic ID advocate could argue, 'well maybe God just didn't want us to hear from them?' But that would just be speculation on their part and certainly would not provide a satisfactory scientific explanation as to why we find ourselves to be alone in the universe as far as solid, undeniable, contact with extraterrestrial intelligences is concerned. Moreover, scientifically speaking, that would put the 'generic' ID advocate in the same boat as the Darwinist in that they both would hold that Copernican Principle and/or 'The Principle of Mediocrity' to be true. That is to say, both the 'generic' ID advocate and the Darwinist would both hold that there is nothing particularly special about the earth and/or humanity in the universe. And whereas the 'generic' ID advocate would, at least, have a leg up on the Darwinist in that the 'generic' ID advocate could account for the, at least, 816 parameters that enable intelligent life to be possible on earth, (see Hugh Ross in post 1), the 'generic' ID advocate would still fail to be able to account for the fact that the Cosmic Microwave Background Radiation, (CMBR), has now been found to contain 'anomalies', (anomalies that were recently discovered by the WMAP and Planck telescopes), that strangely line up with the earth and solar system.
What Is Evil About The Axis Of Evil? – February 17, 2015 The Cosmic Microwave Background (CMB) Radiation contains small temperature fluctuations. When these temperature fluctuations are analyzed using image processing techniques (specifically spherical harmonics), they indicate a special direction in space, or, in a sense, an axis through the universe. This axis is correlated back to us, and causes many difficulties for the current big bang and standard cosmology theories. What has been discovered is shocking. Two scientists, Kate Land and João Magueijo, in a paper in 2005 describing the axis, dubbed it the “Axis of Evil” because of the damage it does to current theories, and (tongue in cheek) as a response to George Bush’ Axis of Evil speech regarding Iraq, Iran and, North Korea. (Youtube clip on site) In the above video, Max Tegmark describes in a simplified way how spherical harmonics analysis decomposes the small temperature fluctuations into more averaged and spatially arranged temperature components, known as multipoles. The “Axis of Evil” correlates to the earth’s ecliptic and equinoxes, and this represents a very unusual and unexpected special direction in space, a direct challenge to the Copernican Principle. http://www.theprinciplemovie.com/evil-axis-evil/
At the 13:55 minute mark of this following video, Max Tegmark, an atheist who specializes in this area of study, finally admits, post Planck 2013, that the CMBR anomalies do indeed line up with the earth and solar system
“Thoughtcrime: The Conspiracy to Stop The Principle” – video https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=0eVUSDy_rO0#t=832
And here is an excellent clip from the movie “The Principle” that explains these ‘anomalies’ in the CMBR, (that ‘unexpectedly’ line up with the earth and solar system), in an easy to understand manner.
Cosmic Microwave Background Proves Intelligent Design (disproves Copernican principle) (clip of “The Principle”) – video https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=htV8WTyo4rw
Moreover, due to the ‘insane coincidence’ of the flatness of the universe being fine-tuned to within one part to the 10^57, we find that “These tiny temperature variations correspond to the largest scale structures of the observable universe.”
How do we know the universe is flat? Discovering the topology of the universe – by Fraser Cain – June 7, 2017 Excerpt: With the most sensitive space-based telescopes they have available, astronomers are able to detect tiny variations in the temperature of this background radiation. And here’s the part that blows my mind every time I think about it. These tiny temperature variations correspond to the largest scale structures of the observable universe. A region that was a fraction of a degree warmer become a vast galaxy cluster, hundreds of millions of light-years across. The cosmic microwave background radiation just gives and gives, and when it comes to figuring out the topology of the universe, it has the answer we need. If the universe was curved in any way, these temperature variations would appear distorted compared to the actual size that we see these structures today. But they’re not. To best of its ability, ESA’s Planck space telescope, can’t detect any distortion at all. The universe is flat.,,, Since the universe is flat now, it must have been flat in the past, when the universe was an incredibly dense singularity. And for it to maintain this level of flatness over 13.8 billion years of expansion, in kind of amazing. In fact, astronomers estimate that the universe must have been flat to 1 part within 1×10^57 parts. Which seems like an insane coincidence. https://phys.org/news/2017-06-universe-flat-topology.html
And we also find that Radio Astronomy now reveals a surprising rotational coincidence for Earth in relation to the quasar and radio galaxy distributions in the universe:
Is there a violation of the Copernican principle in radio sky? – Ashok K. Singal – May 17, 2013 Abstract: Cosmic Microwave Background Radiation (CMBR) observations from the WMAP satellite have shown some unexpected anisotropies (directionally dependent observations), which surprisingly seem to be aligned with the eclipticcite {20,16,15}. The latest data from the Planck satellite have confirmed the presence of these anisotropiescite {17}. Here we report even larger anisotropies in the sky distributions of powerful extended quasars and some other sub-classes of radio galaxies in the 3CRR catalogue, one of the oldest and most intensively studies sample of strong radio sourcescite{21,22,3}. The anisotropies lie about a plane passing through the two equinoxes and the north celestial pole (NCP). We can rule out at a 99.995% confidence level the hypothesis that these asymmetries are merely due to statistical fluctuations. Further, even the distribution of observed radio sizes of quasars and radio galaxies show large systematic differences between these two sky regions. The redshift distribution appear to be very similar in both regions of sky for all sources, which rules out any local effects to be the cause of these anomalies. Two pertinent questions then arise. First, why should there be such large anisotropies present in the sky distribution of some of the most distant discrete sources implying inhomogeneities in the universe at very large scales (covering a fraction of the universe)? What is intriguing even further is why such anisotropies should lie about a great circle decided purely by the orientation of earth’s rotation axis and/or the axis of its revolution around the sun? It looks as if these axes have a preferential placement in the larger scheme of things, implying an apparent breakdown of the Copernican principle or its more generalization, cosmological principle, upon which all modern cosmological theories are based upon. http://arxiv.org/abs/1305.4134
Thus contrary to the presupposition of Darwinists, and to the presupposition of 'generic' ID advocates, we find that the “tiny temperature variations” in the CMBR, (from the large scale structures in the universe, to the earth and solar system themselves), reveal teleology, (i.e. a goal directed purpose, a plan), that specifically included the earth from the start. ,,, The earth, from what our best science can now tell us, was specifically intended by God when he first created the universe.. This is exactly what the Bible 'predicted'
Genesis 1:1-3 In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth. Now the earth was formless and empty, darkness was over the surface of the deep, and the Spirit of God was hovering over the waters. And God said, “Let there be light,” and there was light.
Thus in conclusion, scientifically speaking, the Christian who holds that the earth is unique in this universe,, (i.e. who holds that God had, and has, a special plan for the earth in this universe), has a leg up on both the Darwinist and the 'generic' ID advocate in that the Christian can account for, number 1, why we are alone in the universe, (i.e. can account for the Fermi paradox), and more importantly, number 2, the Christian can also account for why the CMBR anomalies would 'unexpectedly' line up with the earth and solar system.
Isaiah 45:18-19 ? For thus says the Lord, who created the heavens, who is God, who formed the earth and made it, who established it, who did not create it in vain, who formed it to be inhabited: “I am the Lord, and there is no other. I have not spoken in secret, in a dark place of the earth; I did not say to the seed of Jacob, ‘seek me in vain’; I, the Lord speak righteousness, I declare things that are right.”
bornagain77_{October 30, 2020
October
10
Oct
30
30
2020
03:28 AM
3
03
28
AM
PDT}

Follow-up question: If we assume that human life on Earth is unique, how do we account for evidence of what are commonly called extra-terrestrials, such as testimony from multiple sources of interactions with ETs? Is that evidence dismissed? Viewed as non-credible?William J Murray_{October 30, 2020
October
10
Oct
30
30
2020
02:59 AM
2
02
59
AM
PDT}

The point is that from a design perspective there can be as many Earth-like planets as the designer wants to put in it. There may be doctrinal arguments against it, but I don’t see a logical argument from the pure design perspective.
Earth was created first before sun, moon, stars. In God's factory was a moment when Earth is alone in all universe . In conclusion the universe is created as a complement for Earth.Sandy_{October 30, 2020
October
10
Oct
30
30
2020
02:11 AM
2
02
11
AM
PDT}

Drc466, The point is that from a design perspective there can be as many Earth-like planets as the designer wants to put in it. There may be doctrinal arguments against it, but I don't see a logical argument from the pure design perspective.William J Murray_{October 30, 2020
October
10
Oct
30
30
2020
01:13 AM
1
01
13
AM
PDT}

WJM, MacM, et.al.: If you are interested in the general theology behind the fundamentalist Christian YEC belief that we are unique in the universe, here's a decent starting place: Did God Create Life on Other Planets? Alien Life / UFO Questions and Answers The TL;DR version has to do with man's sin, Christ's redemption, and the purpose/destruction/re-creation of the universe all being very man-focused. Includes Bible references.drc466_{October 30, 2020
October
10
Oct
30
30
2020
12:31 AM
12
12
31
AM
PDT}

If they are even as advanced as we are, they could spot us using the methods we use to spot exoplanets.
Incidentally, I once asked a colleague who was participating in SETI many years ago whether intelligent life on earth could be detected from the places we were searching if the scientists there used the same technology we were using. He posed the question to SETI and the answer was no. -QQuerius_{October 29, 2020
October
10
Oct
29
29
2020
10:56 PM
10
10
56
PM
PDT}

BA77
The Bible does indeed claim that we are UNIQUELY made in God’s image and also that Jesus is God incarnate, I.e. God in human flesh.
I don’t see how God creating us in his image makes us unique in the universe. He could easily have created other life forms on other planets in his image. The Bible says nothing to preclude this.Mac McTavish_{October 29, 2020
October
10
Oct
29
29
2020
07:39 PM
7
07
39
PM
PDT}

No problem, you brought the subject up. If you don't believe me on scriptures look them up for yourself. The Bible does indeed claim that we are UNIQUELY made in God's image and also that Jesus is God incarnate, I.e. God in human flesh. I thought at least that much of the Bible was common knowledge, at least in America. As to the topic at hand, I see no evidence presented thus far that would challenge anything that I presented in posts 1 and 2.bornagain77_{October 29, 2020
October
10
Oct
29
29
2020
06:47 PM
6
06
47
PM
PDT}

BA77, I'll take your word that those scriptures mean what you say they mean. Now, let's please return to the topic at hand. Or let the thread die a noble death :)William J Murray_{October 29, 2020
October
10
Oct
29
29
2020
05:21 PM
5
05
21
PM
PDT}

WJM:
I’m not a Bible expert; does the Bible actually say humanity is unique?
Yes
Genesis 1:26 And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness: and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth.
And science backs that claim up. The attack on human exceptionalism, i.e. the attack by Atheists on the specific belief that we are ‘made in the image of God’ is twofold. First, Atheists appeal to the Copernican Principle and/or the Principle of Mediocrity, to argue that we are not special in the universe. And secondly, atheists appeal to Darwinian evolution to argue that we are not all that different from the animals here on earth and therefore we are not made in the image of God. In the following post I addressed the fact that the Copernican Principle and/or the Principle of Mediocrity has now been overturned by our most powerful theories in science, General Relativity and Quantum Mechanics.
September 2020 – despite the fact that virtually everyone, including the vast majority of Christians, hold that the Copernican Principle is unquestionably true, the fact of the matter is that the Copernican Principle is now empirically shown, (via quantum mechanics and general relativity, etc..), to be a false assumption. https://uncommondescent.com/intelligent-design/new-edition-of-inference-review-features-richard-buggs-james-shapiro-and-larry-krauss/#comment-713367
And in the following post I addressed the fact that the fossil record and the genetic evidence is far more discordant with Darwinian claims than Darwinists portray to the general public:
Debunking Human evolution - The Fossil Record and Genetic Evidence https://uncommondescent.com/intelligent-design/debunking-another-claim-that-an-alleged-pillar-of-human-exceptionalism-has-fallen/#comment-713398
And although the evidence for human evolution is far more discordant with Darwinian claims than (most) Darwinists are willing to admit to the general public, it is interesting to note the one human trait that even leading Darwinists themselves admit that they have no clue how it could have possibly of evolved. In 2014, a group of leading (Darwinian) experts in the area of language research, authored a paper in which they admitted that they have, "essentially no explanation of how and why our linguistic computations and representations evolved.,,,"
Leading Evolutionary Scientists Admit We Have No Evolutionary Explanation of Human Language - December 19, 2014 Excerpt: Understanding the evolution of language requires evidence regarding origins and processes that led to change. In the last 40 years, there has been an explosion of research on this problem as well as a sense that considerable progress has been made. We argue instead that the richness of ideas is accompanied by a poverty of evidence, with essentially no explanation of how and why our linguistic computations and representations evolved.,,, (Marc Hauser, Charles Yang, Robert Berwick, Ian Tattersall, Michael J. Ryan, Jeffrey Watumull, Noam Chomsky and Richard C. Lewontin, "The mystery of language evolution," Frontiers in Psychology, Vol 5:401 (May 7, 2014).) Casey Luskin added: “It's difficult to imagine much stronger words from a more prestigious collection of experts.” http://www.evolutionnews.org/2014/12/leading_evoluti092141.html
The late best selling author Tom Wolfe was so taken aback by this honest confession from leading Darwinists that he wrote a book on the subject. Here is a general outline of his main argument;
“Speech is 95 percent plus of what lifts man above animal! Physically, man is a sad case. His teeth, including his incisors, which he calls eyeteeth, are baby-size and can barely penetrate the skin of a too-green apple. His claws can’t do anything but scratch him where he itches. His stringy-ligament body makes him a weakling compared to all the animals his size. Animals his size? In hand-to-paw, hand-to-claw, or hand-to-incisor combat, any animal his size would have him for lunch. Yet man owns or controls them all, every animal that exists, thanks to his superpower: speech.” —Tom Wolfe, in the introduction to his book, The Kingdom of Speech
In other words, humans have, completely contrary to Darwinian ‘survival of the fittest’ thinking, managed to become masters of the planet, not by brute force, but simply by our unique ability to communicate information and also to, more specifically, infuse information into material substrates in order to create, (i.e. intelligently design), objects that are extremely useful for our defense, basic survival in procuring food, furtherance of our knowledge, and also for our pleasure. And although the ‘top-down’ infusion of immaterial information into material substrates, that allowed humans to become ‘masters of the planet’, was rather crude to begin with, (i.e. spears, arrows, and plows etc..), this top down infusion of immaterial information into material substrates has become much more impressive over the last half century or so. Specifically, the ‘top-down’ infusion of mathematical and/or logical information into material substrates lies at the very basis of many, if not all, of man’s most stunning, almost miraculous, technological advances in recent decades. What is more interesting still about the fact that humans have a unique ability to understand and create information, and have come to ‘master the planet’ through the ‘top-down’ infusion of immaterial information into material substrates, is the fact that, due to advances in science, both the universe and life itself, are now found to be ‘information theoretic’ in their foundational basis.
"The most fundamental definition of reality is not matter or energy, but information–and it is the processing of information that lies at the root of all physical, biological, economic, and social phenomena." Vlatko Vedral - Professor of Physics at the University of Oxford, and CQT (Centre for Quantum Technologies) at the National University of Singapore, and a Fellow of Wolfson College - a recognized leader in the field of quantum mechanics. 48:24 mark: “It is operationally impossible to separate Reality and Information” 49:45 mark: “In the Beginning was the Word” John 1:1 Prof Anton Zeilinger speaks on quantum physics. at UCT - video http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s3ZPWW5NOrw
It is hard to imagine a more convincing proof that we are ‘made in the image of God’, than finding that both the universe and life itself are ‘information theoretic’ in their foundational basis, and that we, of all the creatures on earth, uniquely possess an ability to understand and create information, and have come to ‘master the planet’ precisely because of our ability to infuse information into material substrates.
John 1:1-4 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. He was with God in the beginning. Through him all things were made; without him nothing was made that has been made. In him was life, and that life was the light of all mankind.
WJM also states,
I’m not sure many Biblical scholars or theologians claim that God has a human-looking body,
I guess WJM is unaware of the 'little' fact that Jesus claimed to be God incarnate?
John 14:8-11 8 Philip said, “Lord, show us the Father and that will be enough for us.” 9 Jesus answered: “Don’t you know me, Philip, even after I have been among you such a long time? Anyone who has seen me has seen the Father. How can you say, ‘Show us the Father’? 10 Don’t you believe that I am in the Father, and that the Father is in me? The words I say to you I do not speak on my own authority. Rather, it is the Father, living in me, who is doing his work. 11 Believe me when I say that I am in the Father and the Father is in me; or at least believe on the evidence of the works themselves. John 10:30 "I and the Father are one."
A more convincing proof that we are 'made in the image' of God, (rather than just the fact that we uniquely possess an ability to manipulate information), is the fact that God Himself became a man, defeated death on a cross, and then rose from the dead to prove that He was God. And that just so happens to be precisely the proof claimed within Christianity. And although Christianity is certainly rich in apologetic resources that Christians can utilize to defend their Christian faith, my favorite 'proof' that Jesus is exactly who He claimed to be, (namely God incarnate), is the Shroud of Turin,,, which just so happens to be, by far, the most 'scientifically' scrutinized ancient relic on the face of earth.
The evidence for the Shroud's authenticity keeps growing. (Timeline of facts) - November 08, 2019 What Is the Shroud of Turin? Facts & History Everyone Should Know - Myra Adams and Russ Breault https://www.christianity.com/wiki/jesus-christ/what-is-the-shroud-of-turin.html Shroud of Turin - list of scientific papers https://www.shroud.com/library.htm#papers Shroud of Turin: From discovery of Photographic Negative, to 3D Information, to Quantum Hologram - video https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F-TL4QOCiis
Verse:
Luke 24:39 Behold My hands and My feet, that it is I Myself. Handle Me and see, for a spirit does not have flesh and bones as you see I have.”
bornagain77_{October 29, 2020
October
10
Oct
29
29
2020
04:49 PM
4
04
49
PM
PDT}

WJM: I’m not a Bible expert; does the Bible actually say humanity is unique? Why do you think it matters what the Bibles says? Or are you just asking out of curiosity? And, more importantly, why don't you know what the Bible says on such matters? Are you just feeding the conversational flames . . .JVL_{October 29, 2020
October
10
Oct
29
29
2020
01:46 PM
1
01
46
PM
PDT}

Drc466: Agreed. I think the "Earth circumstances" being factually or demonstrably "unique" in the universe is a pretty steep climb to make without referring to a non-design premise. I'm not a Bible expert; does the Bible actually say humanity is unique? I'm not sure many Biblical scholars or theologians claim that God has a human-looking body, or that any passage specifically denies the existence of intelligent beings on other planets.William J Murray_{October 29, 2020
October
10
Oct
29
29
2020
10:32 AM
10
10
32
AM
PDT}

WJM, I 100% agree - and this is a place where I think "generic" ID exposes a weakness against a fundamentalist Christian YEC view. Which argument is consistent, not self-defeating, and supported by the evidence? 1) The universe, earth, and humanity are NOT intelligently-designed, or special. Where are all the aliens then? 2) The universe, earth, and humanity ARE intelligently-designed, by some generic designer. There could be other designed intelligent life, or maybe not. If they do exist, they must have been designed. The lack of other intelligent life is consistent with design, but not necessarily predicted. 3) The universe, earth, and humanity ARE intelligently-designed by God. There are no aliens because the universe was designed for humans, uniquely made in God's image, for the glory of God (Gen 1-2, Ps. 19:1, etc.). The argument then becomes: intelligent life is unique to earth because both it and the circumstances that provide for it here on Earth are unique and must be designed by God.drc466_{October 29, 2020
October
10
Oct
29
29
2020
09:01 AM
9
09
01
AM
PDT}

This argument: intelligent life is rare because both it and the circumstances that provide for it here on Earth are extremely rare and must be designed... ...is self defeating. Granting that it's a matter of design, the designer can obviously generate as many "Earth" and "earth-like" systems as it desires into the universe. The argument that intelligent life is "exceedingly rare" can only be made from the non-design perspective. Under a design perspective, the universe can in fact be teeming with intelligent life. One might even reasonably argue that because it is designed for intelligent life, it is likely full of intelligent life.William J Murray_{October 29, 2020
October
10
Oct
29
29
2020
07:31 AM
7
07
31
AM
PDT}

There are morons who think that a re dwarf could be a host star for a habitable planet or moon. That is total nonsense as any planet in the habitable zone would be in tidal lock with the star. Meaning the rotation = revolution with one side always facing the star. Nothing can live on that planet. There wouldn't be a magnetic field and one side would be toast while the other side is frozen. It isn't enough to just be in the habitable zone. The planet needs to be terrestrial with surface water. It needs to have a thin crust to allow for plate tectonics. It needs to have the right rotation to mix the surface gasses and create a magnetic field- and that requires a molten iron flowing internally. And that planet needs a large, stabilizing moon or else it will tumble as it rotates. So yes, in an Intelligent Design scenario extraterrestrials are pretty much a given.ET_{October 28, 2020
October
10
Oct
28
28
2020
06:48 AM
6
06
48
AM
PDT}

They'll be here as soon as they decide what condiments and barbecue utensils to pack into their spacecraft.EDTA_{October 26, 2020
October
10
Oct
26
26
2020
04:23 PM
4
04
23
PM
PDT}

Moreover, Barrow and Tippler, in their book "The Anthropic Cosmological Principle", estimated that there were 16 steps that were necessary during the course of human evolution. They calculated that 'the probability of all 16 steps occurring to be less than one chance in 10^24,000,000.'
16 Steps to Generating Advanced Life | Dr Hugh Ross - July 13, 2017 Excerpt: Naturalists, materialists, deists, and most theistic evolutionists would answer that the chemicals on early Earth spontaneously self-assembled into a simple cell that was able to reproduce. From there, the cell’s daughters evolved to produce all the life-forms that have ever existed throughout the past 3.8 billion years. Such a history requires that life make at least 16 transitional steps in order to generate advanced life-forms.,,, ,,, Evolutionary biologist Francisco Ayala notes that, from a Darwinian perspective, each step is highly improbable. Taking into account just a few of these steps, Ayala determined that the probability of intelligent life arising from bacteria to be less than one chance in 10^1,000,000.(1) Physicists John Barrow, Brandon Carter, and Frank Tipler calculated the probability of all 16 steps occurring to be less than one chance in 10^24,000,000.(2) To get a feel for how miniscule this probability is, it is roughly equivalent to someone winning the California lottery 3,000,000 consecutive times where that individual purchases just one lottery ticket each time. Realistically, this probability is indistinguishable from someone winning the California lottery 3,000,000 consecutive times where the individual purchases no tickets at all. https://bcooper.wordpress.com/2017/07/13/16-steps-to-generating-advanced-life-dr-hugh-ross/
William Lane Craig, after reviewing Barrow and Tipler’s book, stated, "They estimate that the odds of the evolution (by chance) of the human genome is somewhere between 4 to the negative 180th power, to the 110,000th power, and 4 to the negative 360th power, to the 110,000th power. Therefore, if evolution did occur, it literally would have been a miracle and evidence for the existence of God.” ”
“In Barrow and Tippler's book The Anthropic Cosmological Principle, they list ten steps necessary in the course of human evolution, each of which, is so improbable that if left to happen by chance alone, the sun would have ceased to be a main sequence star and would have incinerated the earth. They estimate that the odds of the evolution (by chance) of the human genome is somewhere between 4 to the negative 180th power, to the 110,000th power, and 4 to the negative 360th power, to the 110,000th power. Therefore, if evolution did occur, it literally would have been a miracle and evidence for the existence of God.” - William Lane Craig - If Human Evolution Did Occur It Was A Miracle - video http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GUxm8dXLRpA
Thus all three assumptions behind the belief that the universe is teeming with extraterrestrial intelligences, (number 1, planets that can host life are fairly common in the universe. Number 2, life can, relatively easily, spontaneously emerge on any planet that can host life, And number 3, human like intelligence is basically considered to be inevitable in any evolutionary scenario.),,, all three assumptions are found to be false assumptions. There is another false assumption, an assumption that I did not mention, that also lies behind the belief that the universe is teeming with extraterrestrial intelligences. Namely, that is the false assumption of the Copernican Principle, and/or 'The Principle of Mediocrity' which holds that the Earth does not hold a privileged position in this universe. As Hawking himself bluntly put the 'Mediocrity Principle".
“The human race is just a chemical scum on a moderate-sized planet, orbiting around a very average star in the outer suburb of one among a hundred billion galaxies. We are so insignificant that I can’t believe the whole universe exists for our benefit.,,,” – Stephen Hawking – 1995 TV show, Reality on the Rocks: Beyond Our Ken,
Yet, the Copernican Principle, and/or 'The Principle of Mediocrity' has now itself been overturned by our most powerful theories and discoveries in science.
September 2020 - despite the fact that virtually everyone, including the vast majority of Christians, hold that the Copernican Principle is unquestionably true, the fact of the matter is that the Copernican Principle is now empirically shown, (via quantum mechanics and general relativity, etc..), to be a false assumption. https://uncommondescent.com/intelligent-design/new-edition-of-inference-review-features-richard-buggs-james-shapiro-and-larry-krauss/#comment-713367
One final note, here is a humorous video clip about a "oh so coincidental" phone call at SETI that had a very interesting timing as to its occurrence
Tyson: "Their (SETI’s) goal is the ultimate prize in the life finding game. Someone out there we can talk to." Shostak: "Nothing to do but sit here and wait for them to call." (And exactly at that moment the phone rings right behind Shostak). Shostak: "And on cue they've called." - quotes as stated at 11:22 minute mark - Where are the Aliens Origins Nova Neil Degrasse Tyson - video - https://youtu.be/t1ReViBCDOs?t=667
As a Christian who has seen a few answered prayers during my life, I find it strange that the SETI (Search for Extra-Terrestrial Intelligence) organization spends millions of dollars vainly searching for signs of extra-terrestrial life in this universe, when all anyone has to do to make solid contact with THE primary 'extra-terrestrial intelligence' of the entire universe is to pray with a sincere heart. God, who created heaven and earth, certainly does not hide from those who sincerely need and seek Him. I would think that personally communicating with the Creator of the universe would be a lot more exciting than not communicating with some little green men that in all realistic probability, given naturalism, do not even exist. It has been my personal experience that God, who created heaven and earth, certainly does not hide from those who desperately need Him and who sincerely seek Him. (and boy have I, due for my tendency of getting myself into desperate situations, desperately needed God several times during my life to bail me out of my unwise choices),,, :)
Isaiah 45:18-19 ? For thus says the Lord, who created the heavens, who is God, who formed the earth and made it, who established it, who did not create it in vain, who formed it to be inhabited: “I am the Lord, and there is no other. I have not spoken in secret, in a dark place of the earth; I did not say to the seed of Jacob, ‘seek me in vain’; I, the Lord speak righteousness, I declare things that are right.”
bornagain77_{October 26, 2020
October
10
Oct
26
26
2020
06:30 AM
6
06
30
AM
PDT}

At the foundation of the belief that the universe is teeming with extraterrestrial intelligences are the assumptions that, number 1, planets that can host life are fairly common in the universe. Number 2, life can, relatively easily, spontaneously emerge on any planet that can host life, And number 3, human like intelligence is basically considered to be inevitable in any evolutionary scenario. All three assumptions are false. As to the first false assumption that "planets that can host life are fairly common in the universe." There are many independent characteristics required to be fulfilled for any planet to host advanced carbon-based life. I know of four books have been written on this subject, 'The Privileged Planet' by Guillermo Gonzalez, 'Rare Earth' by Donald Brownlee, "Lucky Planet" by David Waltham, and 'Improbable Planet' by Hugh Ross,,
The Privileged Planet - video https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QmIc42oRjm8 "If some god-like being could be given the opportunity to plan a sequence of events with the expressed goal of duplicating our 'Garden of Eden', that power would face a formidable task. With the best of intentions but limited by natural laws and materials it is unlikely that Earth could ever be truly replicated. Too many processes in its formation involve sheer luck. Earth-like planets could certainly be made, but each would differ in critical ways. This is well illustrated by the fantastic variety of planets and satellites (moons) that formed in our solar system. They all started with similar building materials, but the final products are vastly different from each other . . . . The physical events that led to the formation and evolution of the physical Earth required an intricate set of nearly irreproducible circumstances."? = Peter B. Ward and Donald Brownlee, Rare Earth: Why Complex Life is Uncommon in the Universe (New York: Copernicus, 2000)? Still Taking Aim at Eric Metaxas, the Media Underestimate the Degree to which Physicists See Evidence for Intelligent Design - Casey Luskin - January 13, 2015 Excerpt: "Earth is a precious jewel possessing a rare combination of qualities that happen to make it almost perfect for sustaining life. Lucky Planet investigates the idea that good fortune, infrequently repeated elsewhere in the Universe, played a significant role in allowing the long-term life-friendliness of our home and that it is unlikely we will succeed in finding similarly complex life elsewhere in the Universe." London astrobiologist - David Waltham, Lucky Planet: Why Earth is Exceptional -- and What That Means for Life in the Universe (Basic Books, 2014), p. 1.) http://www.evolutionnews.org/2015/01/still_taking_ai092671.html Improbable Planet: How Earth Became Humanity's Home - Hugh Ross – September 6, 2016 Description: Most of us remember the basics from science classes about how Earth came to be the only known planet that sustains complex life. But what most people don't know is that the more thoroughly researchers investigate the history of our planet, the more astonishing the story of our existence becomes. The number and complexity of the astronomical, geological, chemical, and biological features recognized as essential to human existence have expanded explosively within the past decade. An understanding of what is required to make possible a large human population and advanced civilizations has raised profound questions about life, our purpose, and our destiny. Are we really just the result of innumerable coincidences? Or is there a more reasonable explanation? This fascinating book helps nonscientists understand the countless miracles that undergird the exquisitely fine-tuned planet we call home--as if Someone had us in mind all along. https://www.amazon.com/Improbable-Planet-Earth-Became-Humanitys/dp/0801016894
,,,, All four books indicate that the earth is extremely unique in its ability to host advanced life in this universe. On top of that, Dr. Hugh Ross, and his team, have studied this question extensively and have found that there are a total of 816 known parameters which have to be met for any planet to be able to host intelligent physical life In this universe,
Linked from Appendix C from Dr. Ross's book, 'Why the Universe Is the Way It Is';? Probability Estimates for the Features Required by Various Life Forms: Excerpt: Requirements to sustain intelligent physical life: Probability for occurrence of all 816 parameters approx. 10^-1333 dependency factors estimate approx. 10^-324 longevity requirements estimate approx. 10^45 Probability for occurrence of all 816 parameters approx. 10^-1054 Maximum possible number of life support bodies in observable universe approx. 10^22 Thus, less than 1 chance in 10^1032 exists that even one such life-support body would occur anywhere in the universe without invoking divine miracle http://d4bge0zxg5qba.cloudfront.net/files/compendium/compendium_Part3_ver2.pdf
Individually, these parameters are not that impressive but when we realize ALL these parameters have to be met at the same time on the same planet and not one of these parameters can be out of its life permitting range for any extended period of time, then, as you can see, the probability for a world which can host advanced life in this universe becomes very extraordinary. i.e. "less than 1 chance in 10^1032" For comparison sake, the entire universe itself is estimated to only have 10^80 particles in it. Thus the probability of a planet 'accidentally' meeting all the conditions that are necessary to host intelligent life is far less likely than that of finding any particular particle in the universe by accident. As to the second assumption that lies behind the belief that the universe is teeming with extraterrestrial intelligences, i.e. that "life can, relatively easily, spontaneously emerge on any planet that can host life,",,,,. The probability against 'simple' life spontaneously appearing on any life supporting planet makes the 1 in 10^1032 estimate for any planet to be able to support intelligent life look like child's play. Working from the thermodynamic perspective, Harold Morowitz, of Yale University, found that the probability of life spontaneously forming, under "ideal natural conditions (the best possible chemical environment)", would be one chance in 10^100,000,000,000
DID LIFE START BY CHANCE? Excerpt: Molecular biophysicist, Harold Morowitz (Yale University), calculated the odds of life beginning under natural conditions (spontaneous generation). He calculated, if one were to take the simplest living cell and break every chemical bond within it, the odds that the cell would reassemble under ideal natural conditions (the best possible chemical environment) would be one chance in 10^100,000,000,000. You will have probably have trouble imagining a number so large, so Hugh Ross provides us with the following example. If all the matter in the Universe was converted into building blocks of life, and if assembly of these building blocks were attempted once a microsecond for the entire age of the universe. Then instead of the odds being 1 in 10^100,000,000,000, they would be 1 in 10^99,999,999,916 (also of note: 1 with 100 billion zeros following would fill approx. 20,000 encyclopedias) http://members.tripod.com/~Black_J/chance.html Of related note: Harold Joseph Morowitz was an American biophysicist who studied the application of thermodynamics to living systems. Author of numerous books and articles, his work includes technical monographs as well as essays. The origin of life was his primary research interest for more than fifty years.
As to the third assumption that lies behind the belief that the universe is teeming with extraterrestrial intelligences, i.e. that 'human like intelligence is basically considered to be inevitable in any evolutionary scenario.' The belief that human like intelligence is, basically, inevitable in any evolutionary scenario is simply a false assumption. After all, out of millions of species on earth, only humans themselves have demonstrated themselves to be capable of complex, abstract, i.e. intelligent, thought. As Dr. Egnor pointed out, it is our ability to think abstractly, i.e. intelligently, that makes us "more different from apes than apes are from viruses.,,,"
The Fundamental Difference Between Humans and Nonhuman Animals - Michael Egnor - November 5, 2015 Excerpt: Human beings have mental powers that include the material mental powers of animals but in addition entail a profoundly different kind of thinking. Human beings think abstractly, and nonhuman animals do not. Human beings have the power to contemplate universals, which are concepts that have no material instantiation. Human beings think about mathematics, literature, art, language, justice, mercy, and an endless library of abstract concepts. Human beings are rational animals. Human rationality is not merely a highly evolved kind of animal perception. Human rationality is qualitatively different — ontologically different — from animal perception. Human rationality is different because it is immaterial. Contemplation of universals cannot have material instantiation, because universals themselves are not material and cannot be instantiated in matter.,,, It is in our ability to think abstractly that we differ from apes. It is a radical difference — an immeasurable qualitative difference, not a quantitative difference. We are more different from apes than apes are from viruses.,,, https://evolutionnews.org/2015/11/the_fundamental_2/
You don't have to take Dr. Egnor's word for it, leading Darwinists themselves have honestly confessed that they have no clue how the human capacity for language, (i.e. our ability to communicate our abstract thoughts to one another, i.e. our intelligence), could have possibly evolved, As the leading Darwinists honestly confessed, we have "essentially no explanation of how and why our linguistic computations and representations evolved.,,,"
Leading Evolutionary Scientists Admit We Have No Evolutionary Explanation of Human Language - December 19, 2014 Excerpt: Understanding the evolution of language requires evidence regarding origins and processes that led to change. In the last 40 years, there has been an explosion of research on this problem as well as a sense that considerable progress has been made. We argue instead that the richness of ideas is accompanied by a poverty of evidence, with essentially no explanation of how and why our linguistic computations and representations evolved.,,, (Marc Hauser, Charles Yang, Robert Berwick, Ian Tattersall, Michael J. Ryan, Jeffrey Watumull, Noam Chomsky and Richard C. Lewontin, "The mystery of language evolution," Frontiers in Psychology, Vol 5:401 (May 7, 2014).) Casey Luskin added: “It's difficult to imagine much stronger words from a more prestigious collection of experts.” http://www.evolutionnews.org/2014/12/leading_evoluti092141.html
Thus, since leading Darwinists themselves have honestly admitted that they have no clue how human intelligence could have possibly evolved, then it is clear that the assumption that human-like intelligence is, basically, inevitable in any evolutionary scenario is a false assumption for people who want to believe that the universe is teeming with extraterrestrial intelligences..bornagain77_{October 26, 2020
October
10
Oct
26
26
2020
06:29 AM
6
06
29
AM
PDT}

Prev 1 2 3

You must be logged in to post a comment.

Leave a Reply