Stephen Hawking says intelligent design of the universe is highly probable? Updated, yes a hoax

_{Denyse O'Leary

March 12, 2015

Cosmology, Intelligent Design, News}

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[Someone kindly tweeted: WDNR is satirical entertainment website & not a source of news –worldnewsdailyreport.com/disclaimer/ Back to work.]

And it isn’t even April 1? Ran March 8 at World News Daily:

The English theoretical physicist and cosmologist, Stephen Hawking, surprised the scientific community last week when he announced during a speech at the University of Cambridge that he believed that “some form of intelligence” was actually behind the creation of the Universe.

Presenting himself before students at the University of Cambridge, the world-famous scientist declared that his years of research on the creation of the cosmos have led him to isolate a strange scientific factor which he says is in many ways contrary to the universal laws of physics.

Personal reasons seem to play a role.

Can’t find evidence it’s a hoax as yet. Watching. Breaking.

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Comments

Piotr said ""77 PiotrMarch 13, 2015 at 6:10 pm It’s also interesting that the mind’s eyes and ears have the same limitations (in terms of light wavelength, colour discrimination, sound frequency range, speech sound spectrum, etc.) as physical eyes and ears. NDE survivors don’t report seeing things in infrared or ultraviolet, perceiving radio waves, polarisation effects, neutrinos flitting by, hearing ultrasounds, or anything of the sort. They are “out of their bodies”, but still limited by their anatomy and physiology. Why should their perception be constrained in this way? "" And again how does refute the validity of these experiences . Again they don't. And in fact when nde experiencers leave this realm they report a hyper real experience ,especially with sight . Now instead of focusing on what ur imagination can answer how these events can be caused by the brain please , especially in the aware studywallstreeter43_{March 14, 2015
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Piotr said ""#67 A good point. Wallstreeter43, try curing blindness by telling blind people to see directly “with their minds”."" Piotr is that your refutation of veridical Nde's by people born blind ? Now please tell us how this refutes the veridical nde itself . The answer is you can't and since you couldn't, instead of admitting it you come out with more bologna that have nothing to do with refuting the validity of these experiences as being more then the brain . This is classic dumbed down pattern of argumentation by atheists . When the evidence is against you , dodge , divert and do everything you can, but avoid the truth at all costs lol I think u should stick to evolution , cause ur exposing your religiously motivated atheistic beliefswallstreeter43_{March 14, 2015
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The problem here is that the atheists here have ignored the latest research on node's from the aware study and instead are attacking the Pam Reynolds case and ignoring the evidence for her having a vertical nde. Chartsil and do jock both looked foolish in claiming that a vertical nde without a functioning brain wasn't good enough, especially since the person got info that they simply didn't have access to. As to Keith asking the ridiculous question as to if we can see without our eyes when we are disembodied why would we need our eyes when we are back in our bodies. As a Christian I would say the answer is 'no one knows' But the more important answer is , how in blue blazes does it disprove Christianity, and how does it disprove nde. Maybe there are 2 ways we can see, the more primitive way with out eyes, the greater or more spiritual way is with out souls. This is a silly question and doesn't add to this discussion at all. But seeing chartsil squirm and avoid the aware study brings such joy to my earthly eyes lol I'm still waiting for his evidence that ndes are caused the brain but we all know that this is a blind faith belief he made up because he didn't have the intellectual honesty to admit that he didn't read the nde literature. But then again me and chartsil are best friends , and what are best friends for the to educate them and making sure that the next TIME THEY lie they do a better job of looking good lolwallstreeter43_{March 14, 2015
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keith s:
My question is simple and obvious. If our souls can see and hear without eyes and ears during an NDE, then why do we need eyes and ears when we’re embodied? Why are you so frightened of such a simple, straightforward question? You strike me as one of those people who cling to their faith not because they’re convinced that it’s true, but because they’re terrified that it isn’t.
This is an excellent and perfectly legitimate question to throw at Christians, mostly the fundamentalist and the Catholics. They have no answer. And I say this as a Christian.Mapou_{March 13, 2015
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ppolish,
So, does anyone know what led Stephen to have a change of heart?
Ask Denyse. LOLkeith s_{March 13, 2015
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So, does anyone know what led Stephen to have a change of heart?ppolish_{March 13, 2015
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So pretty much you expect us to do your work for you. Not how it works. Your claims, your burden.ChristopherH_{March 13, 2015
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Well, I can see that you guys are determined to chase your own tails in a circle. I'm satisfied with my responses. And I'm satisfied that the unbiased readers can see through you guy's shallow games. It's all getting rather boring for me now, so I'll let you guys have the last words. Good night.bornagain77_{March 13, 2015
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BA77,
keith s, since I know you rank among the most dogmatic of stubborn atheists, I know you will never accept the answer I gave.
You didn't even answer my question. You couldn't answer it, so you made up a different question altogether and answered that one instead. My question is simple and obvious. If our souls can see and hear without eyes and ears during an NDE, then why do we need eyes and ears when we're embodied? Why are you so frightened of such a simple, straightforward question? You strike me as one of those people who cling to their faith not because they're convinced that it's true, but because they're terrified that it isn't. Ponder that. I think you'll recognize yourself in that description.keith s_{March 13, 2015
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BA77
“did not have a OBE but did experience insufficient anesthesia during her surgical procedure.” Says who?
Well all the evidence of course. I am not backing anyone. I am following the evidence where it leads BA77
Tell you what, I know how to settle it once and for all. Let’s just wait until we die and then you can see for yourself that you are wrong. I’m willing to wait for you to get your answer, are you?
This is the intellectual depth and rigor you bring to the debate? How sad.franklin_{March 13, 2015
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"did not have a OBE but did experience insufficient anesthesia during her surgical procedure." Says who? you and Woerlee, a guy who was caught lying on another NDE?, and fudged the anesthesia awareness factors in this one to make it seem like he was credible? Yep, no bias in your analysis! NOT! franklin, I back Chris Carter and Stuart Hameroff, whom I trust, and you are backing a dogmatic and dishonest atheist, whom I do not trust one iota. Tell you what, I know how to settle it once and for all. Let's just wait until we die and then you can see for yourself that you are wrong. I'm willing to wait for you to get your answer, are you? Verse and Music:
Matthew 16:26 What good will it be for someone to gain the whole world, yet forfeit their soul? Or what can anyone give in exchange for their soul? Nirvana - Smells Like Teen Spirit https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hTWKbfoikeg
bornagain77_{March 13, 2015
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keith s, since I know you rank among the most dogmatic of stubborn atheists, I know you will never accept the answer I gave. None-the-less I am confident, that for the fair and unbiased reader, the answer I gave is sufficient. https://uncommondescent.com/intelligent-design/stephen-hawking-says-intelligent-design-of-the-universe-is-highly-probable/#comment-553712 Particularly: Dr. Quantum in Flatland – video https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=takn4FPkId4 of note: The preceding video is the lead off video for the outreach page of Dr. Zeilinger's quantum group in Viennabornagain77_{March 13, 2015
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BA77
franklin, considering you did not even honestly admit you elementary mistake on the nature of Out of Body Experiences, color me VERY unimpressed with your armchair refutation of Carter’s devastating critique of Woerlee’s analysis of anesthesia.
not even a remote elementary mistake, ba77. Pam Reynolds did not have a OBE but did experience insufficient anesthesia during her surgical procedure. That you can't even discern this obvious fact from the evidence speaks loudly to your confirmation bias. You don't have to contend with just Woerlee's account but the entire field of pharmacology. I notice that you could not refute the statistic on anesthesia awareness, aka. insufficient anesthesia. Very telling. Sadly so I must add. BA77
Moreover, you didn’t even get the references in the correct order for crying out loud.Moreover, you didn’t even get the references in the correct order for crying out loud.
I only posted one reference. How could I get it out of order in a list of one out of one? BA77
http://www.merkawah.nl/public_.....gwrepr.pdf
this is a repeat link you have posted. I read it the first time I wonder if you have even read it once. the author clearly states that the statistic for anesthesia awareness is 1 or 2 per 1000. Now in Carter's analysis he cites and presents the data from Sebel et al. (2004), p. 836. which had a sample size of 25 as a summary representative of anesthesia awareness. Given your ability to analyze the data do you think that a sample size of 25 is representative of the 20,000 to 40,000 incidences of anesthesia awareness that occur each and every year? What does your power analysis tell you about the veracity of the data and it being potentially representative of the spectrum of experiences of insufficient anesthesia?franklin_{March 13, 2015
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BA77, Still no answer to my question? If you don't know, why not just say "I don't know"?keith s_{March 13, 2015
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ChristopherH, since I know of many Bible scholars that take prophecy seriously, especially concerning Israel, then I can find far more than one person who finds your criteria excessive. But, back to the main point, why should I lift a finger when google is right in front of you? If you truly were interested in Bible prophecy you would google the subject yourself. As it stands, it is more than clear to me that you just want to 'play games' and that you really have no honest intention of being forthright with the evidence.bornagain77_{March 13, 2015
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franklin, considering you did not even honestly admit your elementary mistake on the nature of Out of Body Experiences, color me VERY unimpressed with your armchair refutation of Carter's devastating critique of Woerlee's analysis of anesthesia. Moreover, you didn't even get the references in the correct order for crying out loud. http://www.merkawah.nl/public_html/images/stories/ccvsgwrepr.pdf Moreover, franklin, why are you so biased in your weighing of evidence? I mean, why are you not even one tenth as skeptical of Darwinian claims as you are of NDEs? The evidence for the validity of NDEs absolutely crushes any supposed evidence for Darwinian evolution!
Near-Death Experiences: Putting a Darwinist's Evidentiary Standards to the Test - Dr. Michael Egnor - October 15, 2012 Excerpt: Indeed, about 20 percent of NDE's are corroborated, which means that there are independent ways of checking about the veracity of the experience. The patients knew of things that they could not have known except by extraordinary perception -- such as describing details of surgery that they watched while their heart was stopped, etc. Additionally, many NDE's have a vividness and a sense of intense reality that one does not generally encounter in dreams or hallucinations.,,, The most "parsimonious" explanation -- the simplest scientific explanation -- is that the (Near Death) experience was real. Tens of millions of people have had such experiences. That is tens of millions of more times than we have observed the origin of species , (or the origin of life, or the origin of a protein/gene, or a molecular machine), which is never.,,, The materialist reaction, in short, is unscientific and close-minded. NDE's show fellows like Coyne at their sneering unscientific irrational worst. Somebody finds a crushed fragment of a fossil and it's earth-shaking evidence. Tens of million of people have life-changing spiritual experiences and it's all a big yawn. Note: Dr. Egnor is professor and vice-chairman of neurosurgery at the State University of New York at Stony Brook. http://www.evolutionnews.org/2012/10/near_death_expe_1065301.html 'Afterlife' feels 'even more real than real,' researcher says - Wed April 10, 2013 Excerpt: "If you use this questionnaire ... if the memory is real, it's richer, and if the memory is recent, it's richer," he said. The coma scientists weren't expecting what the tests revealed. "To our surprise, NDEs were much richer than any imagined event or any real event of these coma survivors," Laureys reported. The memories of these experiences beat all other memories, hands down, for their vivid sense of reality. "The difference was so vast," he said with a sense of astonishment. Even if the patient had the experience a long time ago, its memory was as rich "as though it was yesterday," Laureys said. http://www.cnn.com/2013/04/09/health/belgium-near-death-experiences/
bornagain77_{March 13, 2015
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I'm telling you what I'll accept as evidence and I doubt you'll find anyone that thinks my criteria to be excessive. You just refuse (read; are unable) to present them.ChristopherH_{March 13, 2015
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BA77@87 anthesia awareness occurres in 1 to 2 cases per 1000 surgical procedures involving general anesthesia. It is not a uncommon or unknown experience by any means. How in the world you think the salon article in anyway debunks the timeline and diagnosis of insufficient anesthesia is beyond me....outside of your deep confirmation bias. Your University of Google degree has failed you once again......franklin_{March 13, 2015
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"Rather it does support the well known characteristics of insufficient anesthesia." That particular point was thoroughly refuted by Carter in the paper I linked. He showed Woerlee to be way off base in his claims about awareness during anesthesia : As to the timeline, Pam had 'merely' an out of body experience prior to being declared dead. Out Of Body Experiences happen more frequently when the person is still alive than when they are dead:
An excellent survey performed by Twemlow in 1982 revealed the surprising information that most out of body experiences occur during a state of relaxation, and that only a relative few occur during near death experiences (10%). Even more surprisingly, out of body experiences sometimes also occur in states of extreme arousal such as: during severe pain, sexual orgasm, or fever. This means that out of body experiences occur during states of relaxation as well as excitement, which is a real surprise. Here is an extract of the table in the article of Twemlow showing the relative frequencies of the situations during which out of body experiences occur. http://www.neardth.com/out-of-body-experiences.php
Moreover, Pam's near death experience does not start until she is declared dead. Here is the timeline again:
Excerpt: At 8:40 a.m., the tray of surgical instruments was uncovered, and Robert Spetzler began cutting through Pam’s skull with a special surgical saw that produced a noise similar to a dental drill. At this moment, Pam later said, she felt herself “pop” out of her body and hover above it, watching as doctors worked on her body. Although she no longer had use of her eyes and ears, she described her observations in terms of her senses and perceptions. “I thought the way they had my head shaved was very peculiar,” she said. “I expected them to take all of the hair, but they did not.” She also described the Midas Rex bone saw (“The saw thing that I hated the sound of looked like an electric toothbrush and it had a dent in it … ”) and the dental-drill sound it made with considerable accuracy. Meanwhile, Spetzler was removing the outermost membrane of Pamela’s brain, cutting it open with scissors. At about the same time, a female cardiac surgeon was attempting to locate the femoral artery in Pam’s right groin. Remarkably, Pam later claimed to remember a female voice saying, “We have a problem. Her arteries are too small.” And then a male voice: “Try the other side.” Medical records confirm this conversation, yet Pam could not have heard them. The cardiac surgeon was right—Pam’s blood vessels were indeed too small to accept the abundant blood flow requested by the cardiopulmonary bypass machine, so at 10:50 a.m., a tube was inserted into Pam’s left femoral artery and connected to the cardiopulmonary bypass machine. The warm blood circulated from the artery into the cylinders of the bypass machine, where it was cooled down before being returned to her body. Her body temperature began to fall, and at 11:05 a.m. Pam’s heart stopped. Her EEG brain waves flattened into total silence. A few minutes later, her brain stem became totally unresponsive, and her body temperature fell to a sepulchral 60 degrees Fahrenheit. At 11:25 a.m., the team tilted up the head of the operating table, turned off the bypass machine, and drained the blood from her body. Pamela Reynolds was clinically dead. At this point, Pam’s out-of-body adventure transformed into a near-death experience (NDE): http://www.salon.com/2012/04/21/near_death_explained/
So basically, since Out of Body Experience happen more frequently when alive, and Woerlee fudged his claims on anesthesia awareness, you got nothing but imaginary complaints. As I said earlier, you should REALLY do a little research before you start throwing anything you can think of on the wall to see if it sticks. It makes you look bad when you are so easily refuted with just one google search!bornagain77_{March 13, 2015
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as I said "Since you reject them, why should I bother with anything else for you?"bornagain77_{March 13, 2015
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BA77
Actually Franklin, I do follow the evidence. and I trust Hameroff’s and Carter’s testimony on anesthesia far more than I do Woerlee’s testimony,
If you are following the evidence where it leads then how do you explain that Pam Reynolds NDE began over two hours prior to the cooling procedure of her body? At that time she had a normal body temperature and normal heartbeat. To me, considering that evidence, it seems unlikely that she was dead and more importantly not even close to death. Rather it does support the well known characteristics of insufficient anesthesia.franklin_{March 13, 2015
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Instead of a 90 minute video how about you post a few that aren't vague, self fulfilling or self confirmed in the text itself?ChristopherH_{March 13, 2015
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For those who cannot afford the $16, here is a brief outline of the main points of the debate between Woerlee and Carter in the IANDs magazine: http://michaelprescott.typepad.com/michael_prescotts_blog/2012/05/click-on-this.html Judge for yourselves whether Woerlee is being dogmatic in his actionsbornagain77_{March 13, 2015
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ChristopherH, and why don't you believe the prophecies of the Bible? Is that not evidence for 'supernatural' knowledge? The Bible: The Word of God? Extraordinary Claims Demand Extraordinary Evidence https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aqKqRHNVYb0 Since you reject them, why should I bother with anything else for you?bornagain77_{March 13, 2015
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Actually Franklin, I do follow the evidence. and I trust Hameroff's and Carter's testimony on anesthesia far more than I do Woerlee's testimony, Reply to Woerlee’s Rejoinder on the Pam Reynolds Case – Chris Carter (2012 or 2013) Excerpt: In summary, I agree with the assessment of this case by neuroscientist Mario Beauregard,, http://www.merkawah.nl/public_html/images/stories/ccvsgwrepr.pdf Response to "Could Pam Reynolds Hear?" Stuart Hameroff, M.D. Response to "Could Pam Reynolds Hear?" Chris Carter, P.P.E., M.A. Moreover, Woerlee's credibility with me was especially shot after I learned that he directly contradicted the testimony of the medical staff on the scene in the following NDE in order to try to make his case. Near-Death Experience Skeptics Running Out of Excuses As to her amazing near-death experience during which she left her body and was able to look down on medical stuff during their frantic attempt to revive her, Woerlee offered this explanation, “…she hears the conversations. She feels the sensations. And she also is a woman who also has seen films and she knows how these things go. She hears the conversations, why? Because she is awake. That does not surprise me.” Dr. Woerlee’s claims contradict the accounts of medical staff on the scene. They indicated she was clinically dead, “what we call sheet-faced”, and under heavy anesthesia making it medically impossible for her to have a consciousness memory of the experience. http://www.skeptiko.com/near-death-experience-skeptics-running-out-of-excuses/ Why is it that I always find dishonesty whenever atheists are ever involved in things like this? You atheists REALLY have to work on your credibility issue. I've heard said that Americans would rather elect a Muslim than an Atheist for president. That should tell you something! :)bornagain77_{March 13, 2015
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BA77, any in which they come back possessing knowledge they could not have possibly had without having been contacted by a supernatural force?ChristopherH_{March 13, 2015
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Actually Piotr, I've heard many testimonies of people remarking on their extraordinary perceptional abilities during NDEs. In fact, a quick google found this The 10 Most Common Elements of a Near-Death Experience http://paranormal.about.com/od/neardeathexperiences/a/The-10-Most-Common-Elements-Of-A-Near-death-Experience.htm and this: Excerpt: "The world that I had entered was now as solid and real as the world that I had left behind, but the light was still visible. It was a living light. It had vitality and feeling. It was focused in every living thing just as the sun can be focused to a point with a magnifying glass. There were colors, too, not only the colors that I had known on Earth but many octaves of color. Surrounding all my friends and every other living thing was color, arranged in intricate geometrical patterns, each pattern unique, every pattern original. Permeating the colors and patterns was sound, countless octaves of sound. It was as though the colors could be heard. It reminded me of bagpipes. Filling the entire region were the droning sounds. Octave upon octave of invigorating, vitalizing sound. It was very subtle, practically imperceptible but immense, it seemed to reach to infinity. Superimposed on this vast life-giving hum was the melody, which was created by the individual sound of every living thing. Light and sound, color and geometrical patterns were all combined into a totality of harmonic perfection. "It seemed like years had gone by. There was no way to tell, though, whether it had been minutes, hours or years. Where I was now, be-ing was the only reality. Be-ing, which was inseparable from the moment, inseparable from the eternal NOW, inseparable from the life that was in all other beings. Even though this place was as solid and real as the world I left behind, time and space was not an obstacle. "To an animal, a closed door is an insurmountable obstacle. They do not have the faculties necessary to overcome such a barrier. In the world that I had left behind, time and space were just such an insurmountable obstacle. I did not have the faculties necessary to overcome such a barrier. Now I was free, like an animal that had learned how to work a doorknob. I could go in and out of worlds without getting stuck. I could stay inside as long as I wanted. I could become acquainted with people that lived there and get to know their particular customs and their curious opinions, conclusions and beliefs. Then I could leave that world and return to a world without end - a place where there were no opinions, conclusions, or beliefs. It was a place where there was only be-ing, a place of awesome beauty and joy, a place of total harmonic perfection. http://www.near-death.com/experiences/triggers01.htmlbornagain77_{March 13, 2015
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BA77
Here is a more technical refutation of Franklin’s timeline by Woerlee
Did you notice, BA77, that your citation addresses none of the observations and timing of Pam Reynold's surgical procedure. If you wish to continue to not follow the evidence where it leads (an intellectually dishonest position) then you will need to address the actual timeline of what happened to Pam Reynolds. Once you do it is clear that everything she remembered (three years later at that) occurred either prior to the procedure or after the procedure but no memories during the procedure. A clearer case of insufficient anesthesia would be difficult to find.franklin_{March 13, 2015
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It's also interesting that the mind's eyes and ears have the same limitations (in terms of light wavelength, colour discrimination, sound frequency range, speech sound spectrum, etc.) as physical eyes and ears. NDE survivors don't report seeing things in infrared or ultraviolet, perceiving radio waves, polarisation effects, neutrinos flitting by, hearing ultrasounds, or anything of the sort. They are "out of their bodies", but still limited by their anatomy and physiology. Why should their perception be constrained in this way?Piotr_{March 13, 2015
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BA77, That was pretty entertaining, but you didn't answer my question. I didn't ask whether or why blind people could see during NDEs. I asked why our bodies have eyes and ears if our souls can see and hear without them.keith s_{March 13, 2015
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