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The Credulity of those Posing as the Champions of Science

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This post is NOT about global warming.  It is about the credulity of some religious fanatics who, ironically, pose as paragons of scientific skepticism.  Global warming alarmists often call skeptics of global warming alarmism “science deniers.”  The idea seems to be that the alarmists are the sober-minded champions of dispassionate science, and the skeptics are benighted opponents of scientific endeavor.

The reality is, of course, oftentimes just the opposite, as a recent exchange with wd400 illustrates.

In a previous post I noted how the recent “2014 Warmest Year on Record” headlines were almost certainly false.  The alleged record consisted of a .02C increase when the margin of error of the measurement was 0.1C.  In other words, the alleged increase was a small fraction of the margin of error, and the NASA director now says there was only a 38 per cent chance that his press release was correct.

Wd400 picked up on the following sentence from the post:

Global warming: The only area of science where researchers report as absolute fact claims that are almost certainly not true.

And the following exchange occurred:

wd400

62% is “almost certainly” and you are accusing others of being fast and loose with numbers?

BA

So you admit that it is overwhelmingly false; just not certainly false. And that makes you feel better?

wd400

I don’t even know what “overwhelmingly false” means, something is true or it a’int. Evidence might overwhelming support a hypothesis, but are you really trying to say a probability of 62% is “overwhelming” in addition to “almost certain”?

Well, wd, let me see if I can help you out.  First, the entire context of the discussion was the probability of the NASA report being false.  In that context “overwhelmingly false” is obviously shorthand for “an overwhelming probability of being false.”

And yes, ontologically speaking, something is true or it is not true.  Either 2014 was the warmest year on record or it was not.  But this is not an ontological issue.  It is an epistemological issue.  As in many scientific endeavors we cannot know with certainty.  That is why many scientific conclusions are cast in terms of probability, i.e., “there is a 97% chance that X is true.”  That is why the field of statistics was developed to begin with.  The issue, therefore, is about the confidence with which we can say 2014 was the warmest year on record, and it turns out that we cannot make that assertion with any confidence. We now know the statement is probably false.

And speaking of statistics, historically the threshold for scientific assertion was 95% probability.  In other words, a scientist worried about his reputation would not assert anything as scientific fact if there were even a 5.1% chance that he was wrong.

Well, of course, that all got thrown out the window with global warming hucksterism such as that demonstrated by the NASA report.  There NASA asserted as fact a proposition that had a 62% probability of being false.  In other words, NASA threw scientific standards out the window.  If 5% is a historically acceptable margin, NASA accepted a margin that was 12.4 times greater.

WD suggested I was playing “fast and loose” with the terms “almost certainly” and “overwhelmingly.”  Well, those words are relative.  In this case they are relative to the historically accepted scientific confidence levels, and in comparison to those levels the terms I used are perfectly appropriate.

Now that we have that cleared up, let’s go on to discuss the larger issue – wd400’s credulity.  His comments seem to suggest something like “there is only a 62% chance that the ‘2014 was the warmest year’ assertion was false; therefore the phrases ‘overwhelmingly false’ and ‘almost certainly false’ are exaggerations.”

To which I would say, what is your point?  You are the one who says he is on the side of science.  Scientists always say it is important to be skeptical, to insist on high standards of proof for scientific assertions.  That is why we have a confidence margin (95%) that is so high in the first place.

What does it say about you that you quibble with the words “overwhelming” and “almost false” when a claim falls short of that margin by a factor of 12.4X?  It says that the science is not important to you.  It says that your blind leap in the dark religious faith is comfortable accepting any assertion as scientific fact – even if that assertion is probably false – if the assertion is consonant with your faith commitments.  And that, coming from someone who claims to be on the side of science, is truly ironic.

Comments
MF, is your apologetic for NASA’s dishonesty compelled by your moral subjectivism? Because I have to tell you, when we objectivists see a lie, we say, “hey, that’s a lie” instead of trying to figure out ways to make it appear not to be a lie.Barry Arrington
January 22, 2015
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I would also suggest a look at this paper (Gavin A. Schmidt of NASA is one of the co-authors): http://www.columbia.edu/~jeh1/mailings/2015/20150116_Temperature2014.pdf Despite the fact that, according to that analysis, three years (2014, 2010, 2005) are in a sort of statistical tie for the first, second, and third positions (given the margin of uncertainty), and seven other years (2013, 2009, 2007, 2006, 2003, 2002, 1998) are tied for the 4th-10th positions, "the 15 warmest years [since 1880] all occurred since 1998 (including 1998)", no matter in which order you rank them. If global warming is real, it doesn't follow that every year has to be warmer than the preceding one. The trend is clear, and accelerating.Piotr
January 22, 2015
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I encourage anyone who thinks there might be some justice in Barry's remarks about NASA to examine the source material (not the Daily Mail) and come to their own conclusions. Note that the press release includes links to the methodology and data it is unusual to include error bars in a press release. the opening sentence which Barry describes as fundamentally dishonest is actually true in the sense of having the highest results - even if it is a misleading in the sense that two other recent years are not statistically significantly differentMark Frank
January 22, 2015
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Barry -- I mainly replied to give you an opening to back down from your mistake. I guess you don't want to take that up. UD Editors: No, you mainly replied because you feel compelled to try to change the subject from NASA's fundamental dishonesty and your defense of that dishonesty to another subject. wd400
January 22, 2015
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Barry, this hasn't been a good week for you; I'm sorry that you're frustrated. UD Editors: Pissy little snipes like this are amusing for a while, but they quickly grow tiresome. They are mainly an indication that you've got nothing else. Kindly move along.Learned Hand
January 22, 2015
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LH @ 12. I understand you and MF want to derail this discussion and try to get me to defend an obviously apt analogy. I won't let you. The opening line of NASA's press release:
The year 2014 ranks as Earth’s warmest since 1880, according to two separate analyses by NASA and National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration (NOAA) scientists.
That statement is fundamentally dishonest. You, MF and WD appear far more interested in launching personal attacks at me for the way in which I pointed out that dishonesty than you do in the dishonesty itself. And that, to use KF's phrase, speaks volumes about you, MF and WD. And it also, once again, drives home the point of the OP. Keep 'em coming. Rarely do I get an opportunity like this, where I point out that my opponents are digging themselves into a hole, and they respond by digging ever more feverishly. This is fun.Barry Arrington
January 22, 2015
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WD, after my post at 7 I assumed you would stop. But you haven't.
the very figure you are using comes from a press briefing
Even NPR admits the NASA news release didn’t include the error bars in the data. There appear to be no depths (including outright fabrication of talking points) to which you will not sink. Thank you for once again for driving the point of the OP home. More please.Barry Arrington
January 22, 2015
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Doesn't seem like they're defending dishonesty. Rather, they identified an objectively wrong statement that you made. Rather than acknowledging the error, as you are wont to aggressively and rudely demand others do on your behalf, you called them turkeys and doubled down. Are they wrong about your use of p-values? If not, how is pointing out the error a "personal attack"? It doesn't seem nearly as personal as calling them "turkeys." In fact, it seems pretty dry and bloodless: they identified a factual error in your assumptions. I think you're personalizing this as a battle, rather than trying to bring out the most accurate information.Learned Hand
January 22, 2015
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Barry. I know you prefer to think people that disagree with you do some in bad faith, and are out to dissemble. So, you will probably ignore this, but, fwiw: It should be obvious to anyone reading these posts that you made a mistake in claiming a probability of 62% (NASA) or 52% (NOAA, though relying on the Mail to report science fairly probably meant you weren't aware of that number) was "almost certain" or "overwhelmingly probable". My guess is that you got muddled thinking about hypothesis tests and p-values, but maybe you made another mistake? In any case, there is no shame in making mistakes, but persisting in those errors after they've become apparent and requiring you to make strange claims (like the term "almost certainly" is 'relative'?) makes you look foolish. Discussions are a lot more productive is people can admit their mistakes, and others allow then to do so with good grace. As to NASA's "lies". I dislike science press releases in general, and one of the many reasons the News account here is a joke is the blind acceptance comforting paragraphs in PR. But I don't think the claim that NASA lied about their results can be maintained when the very figure you are using comes from a press briefing!wd400
January 22, 2015
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LH, do you have anything substantive to add? Or do you just want to come off as an asshat trying to change the subject from NASA's dishonesty and MF and WD's defense of that dishonesty to a personal attack on me? If the latter, you are doing a fine job.Barry Arrington
January 22, 2015
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Barry Arrington, January 20: "Apologies and retractions should be pouring in, but I will not be holding my breath. Being a Darwinist seems to mean always being right, even when you are not." Barry Arrington, January 22: "Faced with the fundamental dishonesty of the NASA report, you sound like turkeys: quibble quibble quibble." Is this an objective moral code in action? If Barry thinks you've made a mistake, it's time to get down on your knees and apologize for doubting his scientific acumen. If you show conclusively that he's made a mistake, it's time for you to get insulted for doubting his scientific acumen. "Being [Barry Arrington] seems to mean always being right, even when you are not.”Learned Hand
January 22, 2015
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Mark, I urge you to keep it up as well. From the NPR (now there's an admission against interest) report: "The problem is that the NASA news release didn't include the error bars in the data." BTW, I did not get "caught out" on anything other than in your fevered imagination. As I said, you two never cease to astound. Please, drive the point of the OP home as many times as you like.Barry Arrington
January 22, 2015
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wd @ 5: Sigh. Yes, NASA got slapped for its dishonest press release (which is still up if anyone wants to see it) and came clean in subsequent press materials. But then we already knew that, as my post points out. wd, do you want to continue to embarrass yourself with your apologetic for NASA's fundamental dishonesty? If so, I'm happy to give you a platform all day long. With every comment you drive home the point of the OP. Keep it up. Please.Barry Arrington
January 22, 2015
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Barry When caught out change the subject and go on the offensive. I guess that's clever debating tactics. The fact remains you were utterly wrong comparing the 38% probability it was 2014 with the traditional p-value of 95%. Any reasonable person comparing the written press release with the slides from the press briefing (thanks WD400) will see that accusations of fundamental dishonesty are way off the mark. The press briefing might have been a bit more careful with its words but it gives links to both data and methodology so it is not covering anything up. The press briefing slides are pretty meticulous in describing the significance of thedata.Mark Frank
January 22, 2015
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The 38% number you are some focused on comes from the NASA press briefing.wd400
January 22, 2015
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Mark and wd. You are astounding. Faced with the fundamental dishonesty of the NASA report, you sound like turkeys: quibble quibble quibble. All the while averting your gaze from the 500 pound gorilla sitting right beside you: NASA lied and allowed the science to be subsumed by their agenda. Quibble all you want. No one is deceived. Your hypocrisy and credulity are manifest.Barry Arrington
January 22, 2015
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Mark, The slides from the press briefing are here: http://www.ncdc.noaa.gov/sotc/briefings/201501.pdfwd400
January 22, 2015
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I think you are confusing p-values and the probability that something is true (really not he same thing). Since that conflation is the heart of this post I don't think there is much to respond to in this . I replied because I though it was funny to see someone getting upset about hyperbole while simultaneously claiming 62% (if you take the high-estimate, which I guess was the only one you knew about because the Mail didn't bother reporting the other one) was "overwhelming" and "almost certain". These terms aren't "relative", 20% isn't almost certain compared to 2%. You said something stupid and it would be better just to admit your mistake. As to the actual evidence. 2014 is the single highest point-estimate for global temperature in two different datasets , it is also the year with the highest probability (not a p-value) of being the hottest in those two datasets. In the NOAA dataset that probability is 48%. We know this because because these values were included in the press briefing that formed that basis of all those stories, so I'm not sure how much mileage you are going to make from all of this. If we then zoom out to the bigger picture, what is revealed is that almost the probability mass for "hottest year on record" is occupied by years from 2005 to present (95% in the NASA dataset, 96% in NOAA). Sounds like what you'd expect in a warming earth to me?wd400
January 22, 2015
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Barry - get your basics sorted.
Well, of course, that all got thrown out the window with global warming hucksterism such as that demonstrated by the NASA report. There NASA asserted as fact a proposition that had a 62% probability of being false. In other words, NASA threw scientific standards out the window. If 5% is a historically acceptable margin, NASA accepted a margin that was 12.4 times greater.
The traditional p-value of 95% when using classical hypothesis testing is not a measure of how probable it is that the hypothesis is true. This is one of the first things you learn about hypothesis testing. All it means is there is a less than 5% probability on this occasion that the results were due to chance. A common but somewhat lazy heuristic in a specific situation - not a scientific standard. The Daily Mail being the rag it is did not give a source for the 38% quote (I googled the phrase and found many references - I checked the first five - they all referred back to the Daily Mail as their source!). So unless you have the source, we actually have no idea what Gavin Schmidt actually said and how he arrived at the 38%. However, according to this the orginal paper concluded: 2014, 2010, and 2005 in that order, can be considered to be in a statistical tie because of several sources of uncertainty The 38% figure would be very much in line with this. It might be good if NASA were less political in its press releases and let the science speak for itself which is quite adequate - but this whole debate, which is very serious, has become dominated by politicians and lawyers from both sides.Mark Frank
January 22, 2015
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