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The Exosome: RNA Degradation and Evolution

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When the cell makes a copy of a segment of DNA the result is called RNA. This long, thin molecule has many roles, including transmitting information, regulating the cell’s activities and helping molecular machines perform various tasks. But when its job is done, an RNA molecule must be broken apart. The job of destroying RNA is crucial for without it the cell’s RNA would rapidly build up and kill the cell. So cells are equipped with an intricate machine that chops up RNA molecules when they no longer are needed. This RNA degradation machine is called the exosome and it is comprised of ten finely-tuned proteins, nine of which form a cylinder through which the spent RNA is threaded. The tenth protein then chops up the RNA molecule. New research is now elucidating just how the exosome works, and the results pose yet more profound problems for evolution.  Read more

Comments
2 Peter:
Dear friends, this is now my second letter to you.
And what did Peter write to them in his previous letter? “…salvation ready to be revealed in the last time.” (I Peter 1:5) “He …has appeared in these last times for the sake of you.” (I Peter 1:20) “They shall give account to Him who is ready to judge the living and the dead.” (I Peter 4:5) “The end of all things is at hand; therefore, be of sound judgment and sober spirit for the purpose of prayer.” (I Peter 4:7) "For it is time for judgment to begin with the household of God.” (I Peter 4:17) “…as your fellow elder and witness of the sufferings of Christ, and a partaker also of the glory that is about to be revealed.” (I Peter 5:1) Is Peter now contradicting himself in 2 Peter? Is he really now saying the end is far off? No, he isn't. There is nothing in 2 Peter 3 to indicate that it will be a long time yet until the end would come. The idea is imported into the text by those who demand a literal/physical destruction of he entire universe else they won't believe the prophecies have come to pass. In fact, Peter's comment in 2 Peter 3:8 was referring not to time in the future, but to time that had already passed! (Less than 40 years.) It was addressing the perceived delay up until that point. “The Lord is not slow concerning His promise…” (v.9) Are there any references in the New Testament that speak of “the end” as being far distant? Not 2 Peter 3:8Mung
February 18, 2013
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Wow, here is another one of the serendipitous little miracles. The first thing this man mentioned in this video I just so happened to click on, (while I was looking for a unrelated Tim McGrew video), was how Matthew 6 relates to 2Peter 3: Peter's Lessons on the End of the World, Materialism, Contentment and the Uncluttered Life - video https://vimeo.com/59608578bornagain77
February 18, 2013
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Mung @ 10
JGuy:
Is this to suggest 2 Peter 3 should to be read as the selected genre from Revelations? If so, why?You’re the one who called it apocalyptic language.
You’re the one who called it apocalyptic language. :) Is this an admission on your part that you don’t interpret the highly symbolic and figurative imagery of Revelation literally?
It wasn't a claim that 2 Peter 3 read as apocalyptic à la Revelation. The term apocalyptic was related to the sense of 3 & 5 here: apocalypse "3.a prophetic revelation, especially concerning a cataclysm in which the forces of good permanently triumph over the forces of evil.[...]5.any universal or widespread destruction or disaster: the apocalypse of nuclear war." So, I'm saying that it reads more like actual end days, and not as a figurative description of what would happen to Jerusalem & temple in 70AD.JGuy
February 18, 2013
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mung you state that "Dividing the word is a specialty of the cults." But you know that is not what I said. I alluded to: Study to show thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth (2 Timothy 2:15). But I agree with you, cults, like what you have done with my originally intended scripture, take scripture out of context of what it was originally intended! Why did you do that mung? Did you think I would not notice?bornagain77
February 18, 2013
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JGuy:
Is this to suggest 2 Peter 3 should to be read as the selected genre from Revelations? If so, why?
You're the one who called it apocalyptic language. :) Is this an admission on your part that you don't interpret the highly symbolic and figurative imagery of Revelation literally?Mung
February 18, 2013
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Rightly dividing the word is not a strong suit of yours I take it mung?
Dividing the word is a specialty of the cults. I believe in the unity of the word and allowing scripture to interpret scripture. For example: "But exclude the outer court; do not measure it, because it has been given to the Gentiles. They will trample on the holy city for 42 months." (Rev. 11:2) And what is "the great city"? "Their bodies will lie in the street of the great city, which is figuratively called Sodom and Egypt, where also their Lord was crucified."Mung
February 18, 2013
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@Mung
“But if you are doing evil, be in fear: for it is not without purpose that it [the authority] bears the sword; for it is God’s minister, an avenger to express wrath upon the one practicing evil.” (Rom. 13:4, NW) How true this is in this “time of the end” since 1914! The judgment of the nations is moving ahead. It is a time to fear to do evil. Rather, seek righteousness, meekness and godliness, because Jehovah’s authorized Ruler of the new world, Jesus Christ, is on the throne and ruling in the midst of his foes. He is God’s avenger and the vindicator of His universal sovereignty. The sword which the authority bears symbolizes God-given power to execute judgment and cut off those who range themselves against God. Hence the symbolic description of Christ as he rides to execute God’s vengeance at Armageddon tells us: “Out of his mouth there protrudes a sharp long sword, that he may smite the nations with it, and he will shepherd them with a rod of iron.” (Rev. 19:15, NW) So upon the nations practicing evil he will act as the avenger to express the divine wrath. At Armageddon he will not recognize the political powers of this world as the “superior authorities” with absolute control over every human soul. No, but he will destroy them. He will treat them as his footstool, beneath his feet, and he will tread them to destruction in the winepress of God’s wrath. Then there will no more be a “Caesar” to whom anything must be paid. All things will be God’s and be paid back to him.—1 Cor. 15:24-28.
Copying the unfaithful nation of Israel in Jeremiah’s day, unchristian Christendom of this twentieth century claims to be called by God’s name and to represent him. Jehovah God will hold Christendom accountable for not living up to the divine name. At the universal war of Armageddon, which draws near, Jehovah will tell his Executional Officer Jesus Christ to swing down the sword of destruction upon the hypocritical religious organization. Let not the Communist Eastern bloc of nations, neither the non-Christian nations outside, gloat because of the coming destruction of the so-called Christian Western bloc, or, more particularly, Christendom. If Jehovah considers Christendom, which pretends to bear his name and to stand for God to the world, to be punishable, do Communist Russia and its satellites, and the non-Christian nations of the world, think that they are unpunishable? Have they loved Jehovah God more than Christendom has? Have they refrained from opposing and fighting against Jehovah God and his witnesses? Have they been guiltless as to doing filthy things and sinning against Him? No; and Jehovah says that they will not go free of punishment, but his executional sword will be upon all the inhabitants of the earth. Consequently they have not gone unwarned by Jehovah’s witnesses.
JWTruthInLove
February 18, 2013
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Mung @ 100
Do you likewise believe Jesus is coming back riding a literal horse with his garments soaked in literal blood and with a literal sword coming out of his mouth, etc?
Is this to suggest 2 Peter 3 should to be read as the selected genre from Revelations? Ifso, why? For what it's worth here, I believe the great flood was a literal global flood.JGuy
February 18, 2013
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Rightly dividing the word is not a strong suit of yours I take it mung?bornagain77
February 17, 2013
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JGuy:
v.10 – v.13 Sounds pretty apocalyptic to me. I don’t think the heavens and elements melted in 70AD.
Do you likewise believe Jesus is coming back riding a literal horse with his garments soaked in literal blood and with a literal sword coming out of his mouth, etc?Mung
February 17, 2013
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Mung @ 93
Why stop at v.8? “The Lord is not slow concerning His promise…” (v.9)
Why stop half way thru v.9? "9 The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance." ...as somewhat requested... "10 But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up. 11 Seeing then that all these things shall be dissolved, what manner of persons ought ye to be in all holy conversation and godliness, 12 Looking for and hasting unto the coming of the day of God, wherein the heavens being on fire shall be dissolved, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat? 13 Nevertheless we, according to his promise, look for new heavens and a new earth, wherein dwelleth righteousness." v.10 - v.13 Sounds pretty apocalyptic to me. I don't think the heavens and elements melted in 70AD. :P JGuyJGuy
February 17, 2013
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Eric:
So it seems we have two possibilities.
There's a third option. What they said would come to pass did come to pass and futurism is false. :)Mung
February 17, 2013
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So mung do you, like Leithart, affirm ‘the real future return of Christ’?
No. The New Testament teaches one and only one future coming. It either happened when Jesus and the Apostles said it would or they were false prophets.Mung
February 17, 2013
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Mung @85:
Jesus and all the major apostles preached the nearness of the end. They were all mistaken.
So it seems we have two possibilities. You read the scriptural statements and think that Jesus and the major apostles were mistaken. Or it could be that you do not quite understand what Jesus and the major apostles were saying, and therefore it is instead you who are mistaken. No offense, but I'm pretty sure the safer bet is to not go with you on this one. :)Eric Anderson
February 17, 2013
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semi OT: C.S. Lewis - Evolution and The Christian Experience - video http://www.metacafe.com/watch/7060815/ Evolution Vs. The Christian Experience - video http://www.metacafe.com/watch/4104600/bornagain77
February 17, 2013
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So mung do you, like Leithart, affirm 'the real future return of Christ'?bornagain77
February 17, 2013
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2 Peter 3: Who are "the Fathers" of v.4? Were the scoffers Jewish? What "promise of His Arrival" were they referring to in their scoffing? Was their scoffing prior to or after the destruction of Jerusalem in AD 70? Why stop at v.8? "The Lord is not slow concerning His promise..." (v.9) "their judgment of old is not idle, and their destruction will not sleep. (ch2 v3) "they feast with you" (ch2 v13) "what sort of people is it necessary for you to be in holy behaviors and godly acts, waiting for and hastening to the arrival of the Day"
The book of Second Peter has long troubled biblical scholars and interpreters, who have disputed both its authorship and its claims about the imminent return of Christ. In this study Peter Leithart offers a preterist reading of the epistle, arguing that it describes first-century events rather than the end of history. At the same time, he maintains orthodoxy, avoiding hyper-preterism and affirming both the real future return of Christ and the epistle's authenticity. Leithart's accessible style and powerful arguments make this book a valuable addition to the discussion surrounding the Bible's apocalyptic prophecies.
The Promise of His Appearing: An Exposition of Second PeterMung
February 17, 2013
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2 PETER 3: 1 This second epistle, beloved, I now write unto you; in both which I stir up your pure minds by way of remembrance: 2 That ye may be mindful of the words which were spoken before by the holy prophets, and of the commandment of us the apostles of the Lord and Saviour: 3 Knowing this first, that there shall come in the last days scoffers, walking after their own lusts, 4 And saying, Where is the promise of his coming? for since the fathers fell asleep, all things continue as they were from the beginning of the creation. 5 For this they willingly are ignorant of, that by the word of God the heavens were of old, and the earth standing out of the water and in the water: 6 Whereby the world that then was, being overflowed with water, perished: 7 But the heavens and the earth, which are now, by the same word are kept in store, reserved unto fire against the day of judgment and perdition of ungodly men. 8 But, beloved, be not ignorant of this one thing, that one day is with the Lord as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day. ....JGuy
February 17, 2013
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Mung @ 84 See comment 89.JGuy
February 17, 2013
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EA @82:But again I stress that Sanford is using certain models that he apparently disagrees with [evolutionary theory] in order to prove a point that he apparently agrees with [recent origin of life]. There’s just a fundamental incoherence in that, imo.
What data and/or research that he uses in his book, which also support his young life position, derive purely from evolutionary theory? e.g. Observations of mutation rates, fitness changes etc... could each be measured & used by proponents of evolution theory, but that resulting data does not depend upon an assumption of evolutionary theory to be understood or be useful. JGuyJGuy
February 17, 2013
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Also of interest, it may surprise some to learn that the biblical ‘prophetic’ calender is more accurate than our modern day 'scientific' calender. The Gregorian calender uses a fairly complex system of leap days to keep accuracy with the sun, whereas, on a whole consideration, the prophetic calender uses a simpler system of leap months to keep accuracy to the sun. When these two systems are compared against each other, side by side, the prophetic calender equals the Gregorian in accuracy at first approximation, and on in-depth analysis for extremely long periods of time (even to the limits for how precisely we can measure time altogether) the prophetic calender exceeds the Gregorian calender. i.e. God's measure of time exceeds the best efforts of Man to scientifically measure time accurately.,, But, seeing that God created and continually creates space-time in the first place, (per General Relativity and Quantum Mechanics respectfully), why am I surprised about this? :)
Bible Prophecy Year of 360 Days Excerpt: Is the Biblical 'prophetic' calender more accurate than our modern calender? Surprisingly yes! Excerpt: The first series of articles will show the 360-day (Prophetic) calendar to be at least as simple and as accurate as is our modern (Gregorian) calendar. In the second part of our discussion we will demonstrate how that the 360-day calendar is perfectly exact (as far as our 'scientific' measurements will allow). http://www.360calendar.com/ Trust in God's Perfect Timing - photo http://sphotos.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-snc6/s320x320/154716_433469916682215_100000576310394_1504581_1340154442_n.jpg
Verse and music:
2 Peter 3:4 They will say, “Where is this ‘coming’ he promised? Ever since our ancestors died, everything goes on as it has since the beginning of creation.” Hillsong (Brooke Fraser) - Soon - Music Video http://www.godtube.com/watch/?v=FJ0JMMNU
bornagain77
February 17, 2013
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Mung you ask,,
Are there any references in the New Testament that speak of “the end” as being far distant?
HMM,, this for one
Luke 21 24 And they shall fall by the edge of the sword, and shall be led away captive into all nations: and Jerusalem shall be trodden down of the Gentiles, until the times of the Gentiles be fulfilled.
and this for another,,
The Signs of Israel's Rebirth: Lesson 1: The Parable of the Fig Tree Concluding Statement: Now it should also be perfectly clear what the parable of the fig tree in the Olivet Discourse means (Matt 24:32-34). As the disciples were walking into the city on Tuesday morning after Palm Sunday, they noticed that the tree which Jesus had cursed the day before had withered and dried up. Later, on Tuesday evening, when the memory of the withered fig tree was still fresh in their minds, Jesus spoke the parable in question. He said that when the church sees the fig tree leafing out again, it will know that "it is . . . at the doors." The Greek for "it is" can also be translated "he is." In prophecy, "door" is often a symbol for the passageway between heaven and earth (Rev. 4:1). What the parable means, therefore, is that when the nation of Israel revives after its coming disintegration and death in A.D. 70, the return of Christ will be imminent. http://www.themoorings.org/prophecy/Israel/Israel1.html
Moreover,
Is Modern Israel Fulfilling Prophecy? - Thomas Ice Excerpt: There are dozens of biblical passages that predict an end-time regathering of Israel back to her land. http://www.pre-trib.org/data/pdf/Ice-IsModernIsraelFulfill.pdf The time span from the rebirth of Israel as a nation in 1948 to the 6 Day War in 1967 is 19 years. The time from the loss of independence in 606 B.C. to the time of the loss of Jerusalem in 587 B.C. was also 19 years. Was the recapture of Jerusalem in 1967 also prophesied? (Short Answer,, Yes!) http://xwalk.ca/y3nf.html
Here is the math:
Restoration Of Israel and Jerusalem In Prophecy (Doing The Math) - Chuck Missler - video http://www.metacafe.com/w/8598581
The preceding start date, used in the prophecy calculation by Dr. Missler, is confirmed by the archaeological record:
SETTING THE RECORD STRAIGHT Excerpt "In late years several cuneiform tablets have been discovered pertaining to the fall of Babylon which peg both Biblical and secular historic dates. The one tablet known as the "Nabunaid Chronicle" gives the date for the fall of Babylon which specialists have ascertained as being October 12-13, 539 B.C., Julian Calendar, or October 6-7, 539 B.C., according to our present Gregorian Calendar. This tablet also says that Cyrus made his triumphant entry into Babylon 16 days after its fall to his army. Thus his accession year commenced in October, 539 B.C. However, in another cuneiform tablet called "Strassmaier, Cyrus No. 11" Cyrus’ first regnal year is mentioned and was determined to have begun March 17-18, 538 B.C., and to have concluded March 4-5, 537 B.C. It was in this first regnal year of Cyrus that he issued his decree to permit the Jews to return to Jerusalem to rebuild the temple. (Ezra 1:1) The decree may have been made in late 538 B.C. or before March 4-5, 537 B.C. In either case this would have given sufficient time for the large party of 49,897 Jews to organize their expedition and to make their long four-month journey from Babylon to Jerusalem to get there by September 29-30, 537 B.C., the first of the seventh Jewish month, to build their altar to Jehovah as recorded at Ezra 3:1-3. Inasmuch as September 29-30, 537 B.C., officially ends the seventy years of desolation as recorded at 2 Chronicles 36:20, 21, so the beginning of the desolation of the land must have officially begun to be counted after September 21-22, 607 B.C., the first of the seventh Jewish month in 607 B.C., which is the beginning point for the counting of the 2,520 years." http://onlytruegod.org/jwstrs/537vs539.htm
Moreover, the Jewish fall feasts have not yet been fulfilled. Only the Jewish spring feasts were fulfilled in Christ's first coming:
Fall Feasts and the Budding of the Fig Tree with Doug Hamp - video https://vimeo.com/50687234
Even Sir Isaac Newton, who is considered one of the greatest, if not the greatest, scientist who has ever lived, was a avid student of Bible prophecy and predicted the return of Israel to their homeland:
Israeli library uploads (Sir Isaac) Newton's theological texts - February 15, 2012 Excerpt: He's considered to be one of the greatest scientists of all time.,, However, the curator of Israel's national library's humanities collection said Newton was also a devout Christian who dealt far more in theology than he did in physics,, "He (Sir Isaac Newton) took a great interest in the Jews, and we found no negative expressions toward Jews in his writing," said Levy-Rubin. "He (years before it was remotely feasible) said the Jews would ultimately return to their land." http://www.physorg.com/news/2012-02-israeli-library-uploads-newton-theological.html "Prophetic Perspectives, 2008-2015" - Jim Bramlett Excerpt: For years I have been intrigued with Newton's interpretation of Daniel 9:25 and the 62 weeks and 7 weeks (62 X 7 = 434 years, and 7 X 7 = 49 years), counted "from the going forth of the command to restore and build Jerusalem." In his commentary on Daniel, a copy of which I have, Newton wrote that the interpretation of those 69 weeks is usually incorrect, violating the Hebrew language. He said the two numbers should not be added together as most scholars do, but the 434 years refer to Messiah's first coming (which he demonstrated), and the 49 years refer to His second coming, after Israel is reestablished, an idea unheard of 300 years ago but happening in our generation The start date for counting has been controversial. Many thought the 49-year-count would be the date of Israel's rebirth on May 14, 1948, but, alas, that did not work out. Other dates were tried unsuccessfully. But what if the count begins on one of the two most historical dates in Jewish history, the date in the miraculous Six-Day War when Israel captured Jerusalem and the Temple Mount: June 7, 1967? Assume the 49-year count (49 Jewish years X 360 days = 17,640 days), does start on June 7, 1967. Using a date-counter Web site at timeanddate.com/date/duration.html we learn that the 17,640-day count takes us exactly to September 23, 2015. September 23, 2015 is the Day of Atonement! What are the odds against that? Many have believed that the Second Coming will be on the Day of Atonement. If he knew this, old Isaac Newton would be doing cartwheels and back flips right now. http://www.prophecyforum.com/bramlett/prophetic_perspectives.html Sir Isaac Newton's Prediction For The Return Of Christ (A.D. 2060) - Sid Roth video http://www.metacafe.com/watch/4041154
Etc.. etc.. etc.. Thus mung, much like your gaff on Genetic Entropy right before it, it seems that you have placed yourself in the peculiar situation of going against the physical evidence concerning fulfilled prophecy in order to hold onto your a-priori beliefs.,,, I find this to be uncharacteristic of you for usually, like I said before, you follow closely to what the evidence indicates.bornagain77
February 17, 2013
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Mung you ask,,
Are there any references in the New Testament that speak of “the end” as being far distant?
HMM,, this for one
Luke 21 24 And they shall fall by the edge of the sword, and shall be led away captive into all nations: and Jerusalem shall be trodden down of the Gentiles, until the times of the Gentiles be fulfilled.
and this for another,,
The Signs of Israel's Rebirth: Lesson 1: The Parable of the Fig Tree Concluding Statement: Now it should also be perfectly clear what the parable of the fig tree in the Olivet Discourse means (Matt 24:32-34). As the disciples were walking into the city on Tuesday morning after Palm Sunday, they noticed that the tree which Jesus had cursed the day before had withered and dried up. Later, on Tuesday evening, when the memory of the withered fig tree was still fresh in their minds, Jesus spoke the parable in question. He said that when the church sees the fig tree leafing out again, it will know that "it is . . . at the doors." The Greek for "it is" can also be translated "he is." In prophecy, "door" is often a symbol for the passageway between heaven and earth (Rev. 4:1). What the parable means, therefore, is that when the nation of Israel revives after its coming disintegration and death in A.D. 70, the return of Christ will be imminent. http://www.themoorings.org/prophecy/Israel/Israel1.html
Moreover,
Is Modern Israel Fulfilling Prophecy? - Thomas Ice Excerpt: There are dozens of biblical passages that predict an end-time regathering of Israel back to her land. http://www.pre-trib.org/data/pdf/Ice-IsModernIsraelFulfill.pdf The time span from the rebirth of Israel as a nation in 1948 to the 6 Day War in 1967 is 19 years. The time from the loss of independence in 606 B.C. to the time of the loss of Jerusalem in 587 B.C. was also 19 years. Was the recapture of Jerusalem in 1967 also prophesied? (Short Answer,, Yes!) http://xwalk.ca/y3nf.html
Here is the math:
Restoration Of Israel and Jerusalem In Prophecy (Doing The Math) - Chuck Missler - video http://www.metacafe.com/w/8598581
The preceding start date, used in the prophecy calculation by Dr. Missler, is confirmed by the archaeological record:
SETTING THE RECORD STRAIGHT Excerpt "In late years several cuneiform tablets have been discovered pertaining to the fall of Babylon which peg both Biblical and secular historic dates. The one tablet known as the "Nabunaid Chronicle" gives the date for the fall of Babylon which specialists have ascertained as being October 12-13, 539 B.C., Julian Calendar, or October 6-7, 539 B.C., according to our present Gregorian Calendar. This tablet also says that Cyrus made his triumphant entry into Babylon 16 days after its fall to his army. Thus his accession year commenced in October, 539 B.C. However, in another cuneiform tablet called "Strassmaier, Cyrus No. 11" Cyrus’ first regnal year is mentioned and was determined to have begun March 17-18, 538 B.C., and to have concluded March 4-5, 537 B.C. It was in this first regnal year of Cyrus that he issued his decree to permit the Jews to return to Jerusalem to rebuild the temple. (Ezra 1:1) The decree may have been made in late 538 B.C. or before March 4-5, 537 B.C. In either case this would have given sufficient time for the large party of 49,897 Jews to organize their expedition and to make their long four-month journey from Babylon to Jerusalem to get there by September 29-30, 537 B.C., the first of the seventh Jewish month, to build their altar to Jehovah as recorded at Ezra 3:1-3. Inasmuch as September 29-30, 537 B.C., officially ends the seventy years of desolation as recorded at 2 Chronicles 36:20, 21, so the beginning of the desolation of the land must have officially begun to be counted after September 21-22, 607 B.C., the first of the seventh Jewish month in 607 B.C., which is the beginning point for the counting of the 2,520 years." http://onlytruegod.org/jwstrs/537vs539.htm
Moreover, the Jewish fall feasts have not yet been fulfilled. Only the Jewish spring feasts were fulfilled in Christ's first coming:
Fall Feasts and the Budding of the Fig Tree with Doug Hamp - video https://vimeo.com/50687234
Even Sir Isaac Newton, who is considered one of the greatest, if not the greatest, scientist who has ever lived, was a avid student of Bible prophecy and predicted the return of Israel to their homeland:
Israeli library uploads (Sir Isaac) Newton's theological texts - February 15, 2012 Excerpt: He's considered to be one of the greatest scientists of all time.,, However, the curator of Israel's national library's humanities collection said Newton was also a devout Christian who dealt far more in theology than he did in physics,, "He (Sir Isaac Newton) took a great interest in the Jews, and we found no negative expressions toward Jews in his writing," said Levy-Rubin. "He (years before it was remotely feasible) said the Jews would ultimately return to their land." http://www.physorg.com/news/2012-02-israeli-library-uploads-newton-theological.html "Prophetic Perspectives, 2008-2015" - Jim Bramlett Excerpt: For years I have been intrigued with Newton's interpretation of Daniel 9:25 and the 62 weeks and 7 weeks (62 X 7 = 434 years, and 7 X 7 = 49 years), counted "from the going forth of the command to restore and build Jerusalem." In his commentary on Daniel, a copy of which I have, Newton wrote that the interpretation of those 69 weeks is usually incorrect, violating the Hebrew language. He said the two numbers should not be added together as most scholars do, but the 434 years refer to Messiah's first coming (which he demonstrated), and the 49 years refer to His second coming, after Israel is reestablished, an idea unheard of 300 years ago but happening in our generation The start date for counting has been controversial. Many thought the 49-year-count would be the date of Israel's rebirth on May 14, 1948, but, alas, that did not work out. Other dates were tried unsuccessfully. But what if the count begins on one of the two most historical dates in Jewish history, the date in the miraculous Six-Day War when Israel captured Jerusalem and the Temple Mount: June 7, 1967? Assume the 49-year count (49 Jewish years X 360 days = 17,640 days), does start on June 7, 1967. Using a date-counter Web site at http://www.timeanddate.com/date/duration.html we learn that the 17,640-day count takes us exactly to September 23, 2015. September 23, 2015 is the Day of Atonement! What are the odds against that? Many have believed that the Second Coming will be on the Day of Atonement. If he knew this, old Isaac Newton would be doing cartwheels and back flips right now. http://www.prophecyforum.com/bramlett/prophetic_perspectives.html Sir Isaac Newton's Prediction For The Return Of Christ (A.D. 2060) - Sid Roth video http://www.metacafe.com/watch/4041154
Etc.. etc.. etc.. Thus mung, much like your gaff on Genetic Entropy right before it, it seems that you have placed yourself in the peculiar situation of going against the physical evidence concerning fulfilled prophecy in order to hold onto your a-priori beliefs.,,, I find this to be uncharacteristic of you for usually, like I said before, you follow closely to what the evidence indicates.bornagain77
February 17, 2013
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Mung, seeing that you usually follow pretty close to the evidence, I'm surprised at your answer to Eric, "all 3", in regards to Genetic Entropy. While, like you, I disagree with the YEC position, ironically, you put yourself in a rather peculiar situation in which you, like Darwinists, must produce evidence that adaptations are the result of a gain in functional information instead of a loss of functional information. Can you produce that evidence?
A. L. Hughes's New Non-Darwinian Mechanism of Adaption Was Discovered and Published in Detail by an ID Geneticist 25 Years Ago - Wolf-Ekkehard Lönnig - December 2011 Excerpt: The original species had a greater genetic potential to adapt to all possible environments. In the course of time this broad capacity for adaptation has been steadily reduced in the respective habitats by the accumulation of slightly deleterious alleles (as well as total losses of genetic functions redundant for a habitat), with the exception, of course, of that part which was necessary for coping with a species' particular environment....By mutative reduction of the genetic potential, modifications became "heritable". -- As strange as it may at first sound, however, this has nothing to do with the inheritance of acquired characteristics. For the characteristics were not acquired evolutionarily, but existed from the very beginning due to the greater adaptability. In many species only the genetic functions necessary for coping with the corresponding environment have been preserved from this adaptability potential. The "remainder" has been lost by mutations (accumulation of slightly disadvantageous alleles) -- in the formation of secondary species. http://www.evolutionnews.org/2011/12/a_l_hughess_new053881.html podcast - On this episode of ID the Future, Casey Luskin talks with geneticist Dr. Wolf-Ekkehard Lönnig about his recent article on the evolution of dogs. Casey and Dr. Lönnig evaluate the claim that dogs somehow demonstrate macroevolution. http://intelligentdesign.podomatic.com/entry/2013-02-01T17_41_14-08_00 Part 2: Dog Breeds: Proof of Macroevolution? http://intelligentdesign.podomatic.com/entry/2013-02-04T16_57_07-08_00
The following study surveys four decades of experimental work, and solidly backs up the preceding conclusion that there has never been an observed violation of genetic entropy:
“The First Rule of Adaptive Evolution”: Break or blunt any functional coded element whose loss would yield a net fitness gain - Michael Behe - December 2010 Excerpt: In its most recent issue The Quarterly Review of Biology has published a review by myself of laboratory evolution experiments of microbes going back four decades.,,, The gist of the paper is that so far the overwhelming number of adaptive (that is, helpful) mutations seen in laboratory evolution experiments are either loss or modification of function. Of course we had already known that the great majority of mutations that have a visible effect on an organism are deleterious. Now, surprisingly, it seems that even the great majority of helpful mutations degrade the genome to a greater or lesser extent.,,, I dub it “The First Rule of Adaptive Evolution”: Break or blunt any functional coded element whose loss would yield a net fitness gain. http://behe.uncommondescent.com/2010/12/the-first-rule-of-adaptive-evolution/
Michael Behe talks about the preceding paper on this podcast:
Michael Behe: Challenging Darwin, One Peer-Reviewed Paper at a Time - December 2010 http://intelligentdesign.podomatic.com/player/web/2010-12-23T11_53_46-08_00 Where's the substantiating evidence for neo-Darwinism? https://docs.google.com/document/d/1q-PBeQELzT4pkgxB2ZOxGxwv6ynOixfzqzsFlCJ9jrw/edit
Moreover:
Are You Looking for the Simplest and Clearest Argument for Intelligent Design? - Granville Sewell (2nd Law) - video http://www.evolutionnews.org/2012/02/looking_for_the056711.html Physicist Rob Sheldon offers some thoughts on Sal Cordova vs. Granville Sewell on 2nd Law Thermo - July 5, 2012 Excerpt: This is where Granville derives the potency of his argument, since a living organism certainly shows unusual permutations of the atoms, and thus has stat mech entropy that via Boltzmann, must obey the 2nd law. If life violates this, then it must not be lawfully possible for evolution to happen (without an input of work or information.) https://uncommondescent.com/intelligent-design/physicist-rob-sheldon-offers-some-thoughts-on-sal-cordova-vs-granville-sewell-on-2nd-law-thermo/
bornagain77
February 17, 2013
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Eric Anderson:
There are numerous scriptural references to the end being near.
Hardly a New Testament book fails to mention it. :) They must have believed it. Jesus and all the major apostles preached the nearness of the end. They were all mistaken.
Without doing a careful review, I’d say probably a lot more than the few that speak of the end being far distant.
Are there any references in the New Testament that speak of "the end" as being far distant?
Ultimately, however, I have a hard time taking all the scriptural timing analyses/speculations/guesses too seriously.
It's not as if the words of a "prophet" could be used to indict a prophet if they did not come to pass. Was Jesus mistaken?
For one thing, God apparently has a different perception of time than us mere mortals.
God has no need to prophecy to Himself.
For another thing, scriptures can often refer to multiple timeframes, particularly symbolic passages.
You mean there was a sense in which the events did come to pass soon? Is that what you mean by multiple timeframes? In what sense are specifications of a time frame symbolic rather than literal? Jesus wasn't in the tomb for the specified time frame because it was merely symbolic? For all we know he could still be in the ground?
For an additional thing, we perhaps kid ourselves if we presume we know exactly what some of the more symbolic passages really mean (though we perhaps can — and certainly ought to strive to — catch a glimpse of meaning at some humble level).
Are the statements that certain things would happen within a certain time frame or "soon" just to be considered as symbolic? Symbolic of what? On the other hand, when it comes to true symbolism, we have the analogy of faith to guide us.
I was more referring to the fact that there has been a near-constant tendency for each generation to think that the end is nigh. It seems like every generation has the sense they are living on the edge of the end times. And yet one generation quietly passes away and another quietly takes its place . . .
Indeed. Some would take this as reason to be skeptical of claims that "the end is near." Jesus and the apostles were mistaken. There's no less reason to think that anyone since has been right.
But for each of us personally, the end is indeed nigh...
Let's not equivocate over "the end."Mung
February 16, 2013
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EA @82: All 3 But again I stress that Sanford is using certain models that he apparently disagrees with [evolutionary theory] in order to prove a point that he apparently agrees with [recent origin of life]. There's just a fundamental incoherence in that, imo.Mung
February 16, 2013
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Mung, I should have put a smiley face after my #78. There are numerous scriptural references to the end being near. Without doing a careful review, I'd say probably a lot more than the few that speak of the end being far distant. Ultimately, however, I have a hard time taking all the scriptural timing analyses/speculations/guesses too seriously. For one thing, God apparently has a different perception of time than us mere mortals. For another thing, scriptures can often refer to multiple timeframes, particularly symbolic passages. For an additional thing, we perhaps kid ourselves if we presume we know exactly what some of the more symbolic passages really mean (though we perhaps can -- and certainly ought to strive to -- catch a glimpse of meaning at some humble level). I was more referring to the fact that there has been a near-constant tendency for each generation to think that the end is nigh. It seems like every generation has the sense they are living on the edge of the end times. And yet one generation quietly passes away and another quietly takes its place . . . But for each of us personally, the end is indeed nigh . . .Eric Anderson
February 15, 2013
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Mung @80:
. . . I am personally skeptical of “Genetic Entropy,” . . .
Just curious: what aspect are you skeptical of? That entropy applies to the genome? That the genome has experienced any entropy? That the entropy will eventually lead to a catastrophic breakdown?Eric Anderson
February 15, 2013
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Luke 21 24 And they shall fall by the edge of the sword, and shall be led away captive into all nations: and Jerusalem shall be trodden down of the Gentiles, until the times of the Gentiles be fulfilled.bornagain77
February 15, 2013
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Aspire to Solomon2, I am personally skeptical of "Genetic Entropy," but I'm not aware of any anti-GE camp. :)Mung
February 15, 2013
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