The police swoop in Ottawa: The Constitution? Old news now

PPS, wait till you ponder some pivotal and actually foundational natural law reasoning in . . . shudder, scream and run for the exits! . . . the B-I-B-*-E. (Talk about a dirty word guaranteed to terrify the vampires!) kairosfocus

Q, actually insofar as the DoI is a successful piece of natural law reasoning that actually constituted a new polity, USA, it has treaty and covenant level legal standing. The attempt to pretend that it does not, is one of the worst bits of revisionising. Indeed, here is where things get really radical, insofar as it addresses our core, creation order nature and what flows from it, due balance of rights, freedoms, duties and the role of state as guardian of same, it is not merely an American legal document but a universal one whose often unacknowledged relevance and validity as transnational law lie behind for instance how modern Commonwealth constitutions pivot on bills of rights. Not that the 55 or so founders legislated for humanity and poofed law into being by their imagined power but that they identified and published a due recognition of our built in law. Ponder the force of the laws of nature and Nature's God, with self evident truths of equality in creation order leading to rights that are unalienable, implying duties and then the consent of the governed. Every regular election reflects that force of law. So, it is time for us to roll back the invitation to nihilistic factionalism and lawless oligarchy that lurks in legal positivism, returning to a sounder base for law. Hence, BTW, my emphasis on the Ciceronian first duties. KF PS, note, here https://nccs.net/blogs/articles/the-declaration-of-independence-part-of-american-law and here, better i think https://thedispatch.com/p/of-course-the-declaration-is-law kairosfocus

F/N: Found his Newsweek piece https://www.newsweek.com/elites-are-smearing-truckers-because-were-doing-their-job-representing-people-opinion-1675022 --> Recall, Canada is not only The Polite Society but the nation whose ordinary people earned a reputation second to none at Vimy Ridge 1917 as epitome of performance on the battlefields of freedom in two world wars. Ask the Dutch, who liberated them from the Nazis. Ask the French, why they ceded Vimy Ridge to Canada in perpetuity. Ask the Germans what they thought and think of Canadians (and Australians and New Zealanders, not to mention the Scots and British in general). Then ask yourself where and how modern liberty and democracy emerged, even including those rebels just South of Canada. Then, think again. KF PS: Let me clip Gord[on] McGill, who is living up to that name:

The Freedom Convoy was originally envisioned by Albertans Tamara Lich and B.J. Dichter as a smallish group of truckers, farmers, their families and supporters, who planned to head to Ottawa and express their discontent with lockdowns and vaccine mandates. The Federal government was requiring all truckers crossing the border to provide proof of vaccination to continue hauling goods back and forth, despite the fact that truckers have been doing so without this requirement for the entirety of the pandemic and with no evidence that truckers, alone in their rigs, spread COVID-19 any more or less than any other group. It was estimated that the mandate would put 30,000 truckers out of work; because of Canada's enormous trade relationship with the United States, most truckers in Canada haul south, and the domestic freight market would not be unable to absorb this many unemployed drivers. But what was supposed to be a small protest soon ballooned, thanks to social media. Lich and Dichter started a GoFundMe, and news of the planned convoy began to spread, and spread quickly. Within a few days, many more truckers were pledging to join the convoy, and the GoFundMe attracted thousands of small donations from regular Canadians, often in amounts of only $20 or $50; many of those same contributors wound up on the side of the road, waving flags and showing support to the convoy once they began to make way for Ottawa from all corners of the country. Trucker's convoy Videos of these roadside support rallies only increased donations, and further increased the number of Canadians turning up to bid the convoys well. At the time of this writing, the GoFundMe has received $9,626,550, a fundraising feat that exceeds the annual sum raised by Canada's third largest political party, The NDP. The Freedom Convoy might be one of the largest truly grassroots movements we've ever seen, and it's taken on a life of its own, exceeding the expectations of the organizers and touching something deep in the collective psyche of Canada. The vast majority in attendance at Parliament Hill were not truckers at all. In Ottawa, at the protest and online, I have heard from many that it wasn't even necessarily about the truckers or their particular beef with the mandates, but a general feeling of having had enough—enough of lockdowns and coercion, enough of lives interrupted, enough of masks, enough of families divided over the questions of vaccines, of children's upbringings being marred by this psychological warfare. The media, bless them, and many of the rest of those in their class—unions and other labor organizations, various government entities, and Canada's political parties—had nothing to do with this movement, and they have no control over it. They were left out. They are viewed with disdain by the public, because they lost touch with the fact that people have had enough of this. What they call a "fringe minority" of upstarts did what they were supposed to be doing: representing the concerns of the many millions of people whose lives had been impacted by government overreach.

kairosfocus

An actual trucker speaks https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PJgQaqBCXc8 kairosfocus

F/N: Wikipedia on Canada's appointed Senate:

The Senate of Canada (French: Sénat du Canada) is the upper house of the Parliament of Canada. The Senate is modelled after the British House of Lords and consists of 105 members appointed by the governor general on the advice of the prime minister.[1] Seats are assigned on a regional basis: four regions—defined as Ontario, Quebec, the Maritime provinces, and the Western provinces—each receive 24 seats, with the remaining nine seats allocated to the remaining portions of the country: six to Newfoundland and Labrador and one to each of the three northern territories. Senatorial appointments were originally for life; since 1965, they have been subject to a mandatory retirement age of 75.[2] While the Senate is the upper house of parliament and the House of Commons is the lower house, this does not imply the former is more powerful than the latter. It merely entails that its members and officers outrank the members and officers of the Commons in the order of precedence for the purposes of protocol. As a matter of practice and custom, the Commons is the dominant chamber. The prime minister and Cabinet are responsible solely to the House of Commons and remain in office only so long as they retain the confidence of that chamber. Parliament is composed of the two houses together with the "Crown-in-Parliament" (i.e. the monarch, represented by the governor general as ex officio viceroy). The approval of both houses is necessary for legislation to become law, and thus the Senate can reject bills passed by the Commons. Between 1867 and 1987, the Senate rejected fewer than two bills per year, but this has increased in more recent years.[3] Although legislation can normally be introduced in either chamber, the majority of government bills originate in the House of Commons, with the Senate acting as the chamber of "sober second thought" (as it was called by John A. Macdonald, Canada's first prime minister).[4] The Ottawa Senators hockey team owes its name to the Canadian Senate.[5]

That sober second thought function by appointed, distinguished people from across the nation effectively life peers of the Dominion is clearly needed at this point. KF kairosfocus

PPS, Ship of State:

It is not too hard to figure out that our civilisation is in deep trouble and is most likely headed for shipwreck. (And of course, that sort of concern is dismissed as “apocalyptic,” or neurotic pessimism that refuses to pause and smell the roses.) Plato’s Socrates spoke to this sort of situation, long since, in the ship of state parable in The Republic, Bk VI:

>>[Soc.] I perceive, I said, that you are vastly amused at having plunged me into such a hopeless discussion; but now hear the parable, and then you will be still more amused at the meagreness of my imagination: for the manner in which the best men are treated in their own States is so grievous that no single thing on earth is comparable to it; and therefore, if I am to plead their cause, I must have recourse to fiction, and put together a figure made up of many things, like the fabulous unions of goats and stags which are found in pictures. Imagine then a fleet or a ship in which there is a captain [–> often interpreted, ship’s owner] who is taller and stronger than any of the crew, but he is a little deaf and has a similar infirmity in sight, and his knowledge of navigation is not much better. [= The people own the community and in the mass are overwhelmingly strong, but are ill equipped on the whole to guide, guard and lead it] The sailors are quarrelling with one another about the steering – every one is of opinion that he has a right to steer [= selfish ambition to rule and dominate], though he has never learned the art of navigation and cannot tell who taught him or when he learned, and will further assert that it cannot be taught, and they are ready to cut in pieces any one who says the contrary. They throng about the captain, begging and praying him to commit the helm to them [–> kubernetes, steersman, from which both cybernetics and government come in English]; and if at any time they do not prevail, but others are preferred to them, they kill the others or throw them overboard [ = ruthless contest for domination of the community], and having first chained up the noble captain’s senses with drink or some narcotic drug [ = manipulation and befuddlement, cf. the parable of the cave], they mutiny and take possession of the ship and make free with the stores; thus, eating and drinking, they proceed on their voyage in such a manner as might be expected of them [–> Cf here Luke’s subtle case study in Ac 27]. Him who is their partisan and cleverly aids them in their plot for getting the ship out of the captain’s hands into their own whether by force or persuasion [–> Nihilistic will to power on the premise of might and manipulation making ‘right’ ‘truth’ ‘justice’ ‘rights’ etc], they compliment with the name of sailor, pilot, able seaman, and abuse the other sort of man, whom they call a good-for-nothing; but that the true pilot must pay attention to the year and seasons and sky and stars and winds, and whatever else belongs to his art, if he intends to be really qualified for the command of a ship, and that he must and will be the steerer, whether other people like or not-the possibility of this union of authority with the steerer’s art has never seriously entered into their thoughts or been made part of their calling. Now in vessels which are in a state of mutiny and by sailors who are mutineers, how will the true pilot be regarded? Will he not be called by them a prater, a star-gazer, a good-for-nothing? [Ad.] Of course, said Adeimantus. [Soc.] Then you will hardly need, I said, to hear the interpretation of the figure, which describes the true philosopher in his relation to the State [ --> here we see Plato's philosopher-king emerging]; for you understand already. [Ad.] Certainly. [Soc.] Then suppose you now take this parable to the gentleman who is surprised at finding that philosophers have no honour in their cities; explain it to him and try to convince him that their having honour would be far more extraordinary. [Ad.] I will. [Soc.] Say to him, that, in deeming the best votaries of philosophy to be useless to the rest of the world, he is right; but also tell him to attribute their uselessness to the fault of those who will not use them, and not to themselves. The pilot should not humbly beg the sailors to be commanded by him –that is not the order of nature; neither are ‘the wise to go to the doors of the rich’ –the ingenious author of this saying told a lie –but the truth is, that, when a man is ill, whether he be rich or poor, to the physician he must go, and he who wants to be governed, to him who is able to govern. [--> the issue of competence and character as qualifications to rule] The ruler who is good for anything ought not to beg his subjects to be ruled by him [ --> down this road lies the modern solution: a sound, well informed people will seek sound leaders, who will not need to manipulate or bribe or worse, and such a ruler will in turn be checked by the soundness of the people, cf. US DoI, 1776]; although the present governors of mankind are of a different stamp; they may be justly compared to the mutinous sailors, and the true helmsmen to those who are called by them good-for-nothings and star-gazers. [Ad.] Precisely so, he said. [Soc] For these reasons, and among men like these, philosophy, the noblest pursuit of all, is not likely to be much esteemed by those of the opposite faction [--> the sophists, the Demagogues, Alcibiades and co, etc]; not that the greatest and most lasting injury is done to her by her opponents, but by her own professing followers, the same of whom you suppose the accuser to say, that the greater number of them are arrant rogues, and the best are useless; in which opinion I agreed [--> even among the students of the sound state (here, political philosophy and likely history etc.), many are of unsound motivation and intent, so mere education is not enough, character transformation is critical]. [Ad.] Yes. [Soc.] And the reason why the good are useless has now been explained? [Ad.] True. [Soc.] Then shall we proceed to show that the corruption of the majority is also unavoidable [--> implies a need for a corruption-restraining minority providing proverbial salt and light, cf. Ac 27, as well as justifying a governing structure turning on separation of powers, checks and balances], and that this is not to be laid to the charge of philosophy any more than the other? [Ad.] By all means. [Soc.] And let us ask and answer in turn, first going back to the description of the gentle and noble nature.[ -- > note the character issue] Truth, as you will remember, was his leader, whom he followed always and in all things [ --> The spirit of truth as a marker]; failing in this, he was an impostor, and had no part or lot in true philosophy [--> the spirit of truth is a marker, for good or ill] . . . >>

(There is more than an echo of this in Acts 27, a real world case study. [Luke, a physician, was an educated Greek with a taste for subtle references.] This blog post, on soundness in policy, will also help)

kairosfocus

Q, overnight, let's look at Ac 27:

[On Luke's microcosm on the ship of state, Jan 1, 2013:] Entrenched highly ideological orthodoxies — and this includes successful revolutionaries, whether on institutional or community scale — that control resource flows to their benefit and which exert enormous power in institutions and society [I was speaking here about today's evolutionary materialism dominated science], tend to be very resistant to what is new and unsettling to their comfort zones and interests. Where there has been indoctrination and polarisation, we can see this multiplied by the problem of lack of logical thinking ability [--> hence, my focus for some time at UD on Logic and First Principles, a reference base for onward engagement of particular topics] and sheer lack of awareness of the true state of the balance of warrant on the merits of facts and evidence. [--> this engages the ID controversy but is directly relevant to the ongoing pandemic mismanagement and many other issues] The perceived heretic, then is a threat to be fought off, marginalised, discredited and if necessary destroyed. By any and all means, fair or foul. [--> see my current L&FP, 52, being currently itself sidelined!] (I find the obsession with suggestions of a threat of religious subversion of [scientific, political, education, media and cultural] institutions long since subverted by radical secularists slightly amusing but quite sad in the end. The key threat is unaccountable, out of control power in the hands of elites prone to corruption [= lawless oligarchy], not that this once happened with religious elites. In the past 100 years, we saw major secularist movements and neopagan movements of political messianism that did much the same to horrific cost. And the welfare state of the past generation has not been a whole lot better. [Just ask the ghosts of the dozens of millions who have been aborted for convenience.] [--> are we all nazis now, with the ghosts of 800+ million of our living posterity slaughtered in the womb and rising globally at about another million per WEEK indicting us] ) Where is there a solution? Frankly, at this stage, I think things are going to have to crash so badly and some elites are going to have to be so discredited by the associated spreading failure, that media propaganda tactics cannot cover it up anymore. [--> I wonder, is the pandemic fiasco a possible case? Recall, the date on this is Jan 1, 2013.] My model for that comes from one of the red-flag sources that will give some of the objectors [to the design theory movement in science] the vapours. Acts 27. What, how dare you cite that, that . . . that . . . textbook for theocratic tyranny by the ignorant, insane, stupid and/or wicked followers of that bronze age misogynistic homophobic genocidal racist war god! (Do you hear how your agit-prop talking points are enmeshing you in the classic trap of believing your own propaganda?) Let’s start with, Paul of Tarsus, c. AD 59, was not in the Bronze Age but was an appellate prisoner in chains [--> after two years of enduring mob riot, corrupt lawfare and outright assassination plots] on early Imperial era grain ships having a hard time making way from the Levant and Asia Minor to Rome, in the second case ending up in a bay on Crete. What followed is a classic exercise in the follies of manipulated democracy, a case study that will well repay study in our time.

It was late in the sailing season, and the merchant-owner was worried about his ship in an open bay at Fair Havens, given what winter storms can do. The passengers were not too impressed by the nearby settlements as a wintering place. (Sailing stopped in Autumn and opened back up in Spring. [--> EVERYONE knew why, the ships of that day could not bear up the storms of winter, and as time wore on in the fall, sailing became increasingly dangerous]) The key technico, the kubernetes — steersman, more or less like a pilot of an airliner — knew where his bread was buttered, and by whom. [--> the merchant owner was there as finance backer making money from being a merchant, not typically a skilled navigator, Plato used that to launch his ship of state parable, which Luke is subtly contrasting with a real life case here.] In the middle was a Centurion of the elite messenger corps. We are at ship’s council, and Paul, in chains, is suggesting that the suggestion to venture our with a favourable wind to try to make it to a more commodious port down-coast was excessively risky not only to boat but life. The financial and technical talking heads and the appeal of comfort allowed him to be easily marginalised and dismissed. Then we saw a gentle south breeze, that would have allowed a reach down the coast. (The technicos probably knew this could be a precursor to a storm, but were not going to cut across the dominant view. [Let's add, how many days would it have taken to simply WALK to Phoenix, 40 mi away by sea? 3 - 4? We can readily see how the implicit, you won't get money back if you "abandon" the voyage and the rosy description of a smooth, low risk afternoon's sail could easily have swayed opinions.]) They sailed out. Bang, an early winter nor'easter hit them and sprang the boat’s timbers (why they tried to hold together with ropes [--> called frapping]) so the ship was in a sinking condition from the beginning. Worse, they were heading for sandbars off the coast of today’s Libya. For two weeks all they could do was use a sea anchor to control drift and try to steer vaguely WNW. [--> the effect would be to put them towards Malta . . . which means haven in Phoenecian, or perhaps Sicily, but by the end of 2 weeks they were lost and hopeless] Forget, eating. That is when Paul stood forth as a good man in a storm, and encouraged them with a vision from God. By this time, hope was to be shipwrecked on a coast. (Turned out, [probably] north coast of Malta [possibly, east end].) While the ship was at risk of being driven aground and set out four anchors by the stern from midnight on, the sailors tried to abandon the passengers on a ruse, spotted by Paul and/or Luke his travelling companion. By this time, the Centurion knew who to take seriously and the ship’s boat was cut away. He then took the decision to save Paul and refused the soldiers’ request to kill the prisoners to prevent escape (for which their lives would have been forfeit). So, they made it to a beach on Malta, having lost the ship in any case AND nearly their own lives.

That was at new years, 2013. KF PS: Salt and light work by being present, relevant and being effective counters to darkness and decay. It is fair comment that in recent decades the Christian Faith in Europe and North America has been anything but such, with but few exceptions. Pope John Paul II, the great, was a notable exception that we need to heed as well as the Church in Poland, where even the Communists had to have chaplains for their army. The Ac 27 model is key here. kairosfocus

Thanks for the clarification, Kairosfocus. Yes, I'd projected your comments to the present. I understand what you're saying. And each person has a job to do where they're placed. During my career in technology, I was able to maintain my integrity, productivity, quality, and voice, yet remain gentle, helpful, truthful, and non-confrontational, flawed as I am, of course. I've no doubt that my commitment to following Christ limited my advancement, but on several occasions, Divine Intervention preserved my job! Every morning, I was filled with peace and overflowing joy. I always remembered that our enemy is not flesh and blood, but the machinations and traps set by wicked spiritual entities who hate humanity and want to take us all down with them to their own destruction when the time comes. The only thing that I'd add to your comments is that I was surprised at just how much compromise, corruption, jealousy, and hypocrisy exists within our society. But the people involved may not realize that they're actually the victims. They're trading their souls for not "the whole world" but something far less. The healthy alternative is building in general "from the bottom up" rather than the top down. Being an authentic servant of God to others is how we can be "the salt of the earth." -Q Querius

PPPS: The Star Spangled Banner, 4 vv:

Oh, say, can you see, by the dawn's early light, What so proudly we hail'd at the twilight's last gleaming? Whose broad stripes and bright stars, thro' the perilous fight, O'er the ramparts we watch'd, were so gallantly streaming? And the rockets' red glare, the bombs bursting in air, Gave proof thro' the night that our flag was still there. O say, does that star-spangled banner yet wave O'er the land of the free and the home of the brave? On the shore dimly seen thro' the mists of the deep, Where the foe's haughty host in dread silence reposes, What is that which the breeze, o'er the towering steep, As it fitfully blows, half conceals, half discloses? Now it catches the gleam of the morning's first beam, In full glory reflected, now shines on the stream: 'Tis the star-spangled banner: O, long may it wave O'er the land of the free and the home of the brave! And where is that band who so vauntingly swore That the havoc of war and the battle's confusion A home and a country should leave us no more? Their blood has wash'd out their foul footsteps' pollution. No refuge could save the hireling and slave From the terror of flight or the gloom of the grave: And the star-spangled banner in triumph doth wave O'er the land of the free and the home of the brave. O, thus be it ever when freemen shall stand, Between their lov'd homes and the war's desolation; Blest with vict'ry and peace, may the heav'n-rescued land Praise the Pow'r that hath made and preserv'd us a nation! Then conquer we must, when our cause is just, And this be our motto: "In God is our trust" And the star-spangled banner in triumph shall wave O'er the land of the free and the home of the brave!

kairosfocus

PPS: O Canada:

O Canada! our home and native land!* True patriot-love in all thy sons command. With glowing hearts we see thee rise, The True North strong and free! And stand on guard, O Canada, We stand on guard for thee. [Chorus:] O Canada, glorious and free! O Canada, we stand on guard, we stand on guard for thee. O Canada, we stand on guard for thee. O Canada! where pines and maples grow, Great prairies spread, and lordly rivers flow. How dear to us thy broad domain, From East to Western sea. The land of hope for all who toil, The True North strong and free! [Chorus:] O Canada, glorious and free! O Canada, we stand on guard, we stand on guard for thee. O Canada, we stand on guard for thee. O Canada! beneath our shining skies, May stalwart sons, and gentle maidens rise. To keep thee steadfast through the years, From east to western sea, Our own beloved native land, Our true north strong and free! [Chorus:] O Canada, glorious and free! O Canada, we stand on guard, we stand on guard for thee. O Canada, we stand on guard for thee. Ruler Supreme! who hearest humble prayer, Hold thy Dominion in thy loving care; Help us to find, Oh God, in thee, A lasting rich reward. As waiting for the Better Day, We ever stand on guard. O Canada, Glorious and free! Amen

kairosfocus

PS: Jamaica's National Anthem:

Eternal Father, Bless our Land Eternal Father, Bless our Land, Guard us with thy mighty hand, Keep us free from evil powers, Be our light through countless hours, To our leaders, great defender, Grant true wisdom from above, Justice, truth be ours forever, Jamaica, land we love, Jamaica, Jamaica, Jamaica, land we love Teach us true respect for all, Stir response to duty's call, Strengthen us the weak to cherish, Give us vision lest we perish, Knowledge send us Heavenly Father, Grant true wisdom from above, Justice, truth be ours forever, Jamaica, land we love, Jamaica, Jamaica, Jamaica, land we love

kairosfocus

Q, I referred to the Reformation era not current movements. Also to scripture starting with Ac 17 and 27 on nationhood and citizenship under God, Rom 13 pointing to government under God. Ac 27 is a case on using recognised rights to speak out (even while on the way to Rome as an appeals prisoner after two years of significantly corrupt lawfare), willingness to be on the losing side of the politics and emerging as the good man in the storm when things begin to fall apart; having clearly been a prophetic intercessor in the interim. Do not overlook the prophetic vision and word into the now situation given to one and all, exerting both witness to God and his kingdom the storm being judgement of consequences on folly, thus in outline the gospel with embedded kingdom ethics. Notice, those who had so cleverly put forth an unduly risky policy and had marginalised and defeated Paul's prudence were now put to silence, having no hope or way to save the situation. Notice too that there was still some lawfulness in the community, they did not pounce on this gadfly to silence him as the ship of state envisions. This BTW also answers subtly to Plato's parable of the ship of state. I think the time has come to refresh our vision of nationhood, citizenship, government and public policy. We are clearly in a global storm and the incompetence, folly and in some cases corruption of officialdom and political leaders is being brought out. KF kairosfocus

Kairosfocus @29, Yes, exactly! While I don't agree with Tricia S. Lindsay biblically, she made a brilliant and succinct legal and political case. She has my total respect to the point of my intention of donating to her education foundation. However, Jesus described His kingdom as "not of this world," or else His servants would fight. This is why I accept neither Liberation Theology nor Dominionism. Rather, I view myself as a servant to the people around me and I pray "Thy kingdom come," noting that every type of human self-government has inevitably failed under the weight of moral corruption--some much faster than others--which has always been blamed on "bad luck" or "That wasn't TRUE socialism." My efforts focus on rescuing people from God's impending judgment and directly helping those in need--prison inmates to be specific. It's NOT to try to rescue any of this world's institutions including academia, "science," government, religion, economic systems, corporations, and so on.

Of course, there has been much ideological revisionising away from that but history is a little hard to change after the fact.

Yes, but revision is far too slow for them. The Declaration of Independence has no legal standing and the Constitution and Bill of Rights have been interpreted into Swiss cheese. No, it's much faster to condemn and then destroy our founding documents for a brand new Fresh Start: totalitarian and (naturally) ruled by them. It will be a "living document" under continual revision on Twitter. As a socialist workers' paradise, it will quickly degrade into an urban hell such as San Francisco or many other large American cities. Eventually, I expect to be put into an internment/re-education camp with others who refuse to participate in monthly vaccinations and social credits. As Trudeau reputedly said about Canadian truckers, They're just "taking up space" and we have to decide what to do with them. I will be in good company and will feel honored to be on the correct side of the barbed wire. -Q Querius

Q, I see the speech, the doctrine proper (yes, it is not just legal but theological and Biblical at root) is interposition by lower magistrates -- and Vindiciae, using Moses et al, includes emerging popular representatives here -- on grounds that they too have legitimacy as servants of God to do justice. Where the broader context is the Reformation theology understanding that nationhood is under God [God, having created nations] and Government is also under God with the informed consent of the governed. So, we see the double covenant understanding, where certain nations have publicly acknowledged God as creator of their nation and that those in authority are there with their conditional consent, as ministers of God -- even a Nero counts, where the point is duty and accountability -- to do good and especially to uphold the civil peace of justice. In the case of Jamaica, the act of original covenant happened on the night of July 31/Aug 1 1834, where the slave population en masse went to dissenter chapels as the midnight hour of abolition neared, in aftermath of the 1831 Baptist War uprising and stout stance of Knibb et al in the UK calling the Christian people of the UK to understand what their BRETHREN were suffering in Jamaica. It was specifically renewed at independence, particularly through the Anthem, which is a prayer to our Eternal Father. less obvious are the Cross of St Andrew in the flag as the golden light in the nation and the cross in the coat of arms. In the case of the USA, the Congressional call -- yes, Congress issued the call -- for penitent prayer on May 17, 1776 is clearly in that context and, the Olive Branch Petition having failed, the Declaration of Independence pivots on that same understanding. Of course, there has been much ideological revisionising away from that but history is a little hard to change after the fact. KF kairosfocus

KRock: No fan of Trudeau? Please!.

So, if a person disagrees with the tactics used by the truck convoy they must support Trudeau? Can you seriously not see that it is possible to disagree with the approach used by both?. Scamp

@scamp No fan of Trudeau? Please!. Give me a break. Removing mandates for unvaccinated truck drivers, who operate their trucks alone, should hardly be considered a non-negotiable demand. At the very least, Trudeau could have just met with the truckers, like a normal and rational leader would. Ah, I see, the police are incompetent. At what point are you going to accept the fact that the truckers in Ottawa are not doing anything illegal. They're simply excising their right to protest, peacefully. Get over it. Straw man! Pointing out a well established fact doesn't devalue their lives, and nor should it be taken to mean that. Nice try, though. "Get up, stand up, Stand up for your rights. Get up, stand up, Don't give up the fight." - Bob Marley KRock

After watching some posted FreedomConvoy videos and scanning/jumping through hours of live streams, it was gratifying to see peaceful but determined Canadian protesters without the violence, destruction, and faces distorted with rage as we've seen repeatedly in the U.S. While Trudeau went into hiding, the peaceful protesters cleaned up trash, shoveled snow, fed the homeless, suppressed crime, were polite to the police, and basically had a good time together. The workers of the world are indeed rising up regardless of the divisive politics promoted by the politicians and media to divide people from each other. Similar protests are occurring in France, Australia, New Zealand, the Netherlands, Spain, Italy, Switzerland, Finland, and many other countries! Here in the U.S., an amazing speech was recently delivered by civil rights attorney Tricia S. Lindsay that's worth watching: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QOxKpCeJPRE -Q Querius

KRock: Scamp, the continuation, and escalation of the protest falls squarely on the shoulders of the Prime Minister.

I’m no fan of Trudeau. In fact, I think he is as dumb as a stump. But there is no government that would give in to the demands that were made.

If the protest represented anything illegal, the police would have already shut it down. But it doesn’t, and that’s the rub.

Yah. Right.

Where did I say that their lives were meaningless?

You rationalized the high mortality rate of COVID as being less important because it is generally limited to people with comorbidities. What was I to think?

It’s never a moot point to stand up for what you believe in.

Of course it is, when getting what you want will make absolutely no difference. Scamp

Scamp, the continuation, and escalation of the protest falls squarely on the shoulders of the Prime Minister. Not only has Trudeau refused to meet with the truckers (only recently did someone from the federal government finally decide to meet with the truckers), he also chose to marginalize and dehumanize the entire group, calling them racists, homophobes, transphobic, white nationalists, etc, etc, etc. Thankfully, most Canadians can see through the smear and the hysteria. If you're emotional about the truckers protesting and assembling in Ottawa—actions that are protected under the Canadian Charter of Rights and Freedoms—then take it up with Trudeau. It's gone far beyond a legal protest? Show me where it says that people can't assemble peacefully and protest in the Nation's Capital. If the protest represented anything illegal, the police would have already shut it down. But it doesn't, and that's the rub. Where did I say that their lives were meaningless? It's never a moot point to stand up for what you believe in. KRock

From the Daily Mail article quoted previously,

Ontario Superior Court Justice Hugh McLean granted a 10-day injunction the next day banning horn honking and air horn blowing on Monday. […] The injunction was in response to a lawsuit by downtown resident Zexi Li, 21. Her lawyer, Paul Champ, said the level of noise measured in her apartment was akin to 'having a lawn mower running in her living room, 24 hours a day, seven days a week,' according to the Ottawa Citizen. The $9.8 million class action lawsuit is open to up to 6,000 downtown residents who live in or near the protest's 'red zone.'

People have a right to protest but I'd be pretty p'd off at that kind of noise level and be happy to join a class action lawsuit to stop it. Seversky

Krock: Right, they’re not being forced, they just have to quarantine for 14 days upon returning to Canada, or, they can just get the vaccine.

Which is a moot point as the US won’t even allow them into the country.

But if you choose not to, we’re going to make your life as difficult as possible; so much so, that you’ll be unable to support your family with your current job. Yep, no compulsion there. Sigh!

So the solution is to cause disruptions resulting in hundreds of people to be laid off. Yup, that’s a mature attitude.

Remember when Public Health said that we only needed to get to 70% fully vaccinated and then we’d achieve herd immunity?!

How is this relevant to your claim that the vaccines don’t do anything. The real statistics prove you wrong. Let me clip the data again: “ People who are fully vaccinated with at least two doses are 83.5 per cent less likely to end up in hospital and 91.9 per cent less likely to end up in ICU compared to people who are unvaccinated” Ontario Public Health.

Most people who have died from COVID also had co-morbidities or were in poor health.

So their lives are meaningless?

Large angry crowd?! Clearly you haven’t bothered to go down town to see for yourself. Do yourself a favour, stop getting your information from the legacy media—it’s usually one-sided.

I work downtown. I am there every day. Try walking around there with a mask on and see what the reaction is. I agree that the vast majority are peaceful and polite. But what is very telling is that none of these otherwise polite people intervene when someone is being harassed. As I mentioned before, I support their right to protest but what they are doing now goes far beyond a legal protest. Scamp

@Scamp Funny, the truckers have a very different view as to whether or not these idiotic mandates are going to have an affect on their livelihoods. They must be misinformed. Right, they're not being forced, they just have to quarantine for 14 days upon returning to Canada, or, they can just get the vaccine. That's some choice, though, especially when you're trying to earn a living on a daily basis. In essence, they're saying you don't have to get the vaccine. But if you choose not to, we're going to make your life as difficult as possible; so much so, that you'll be unable to support your family with your current job. Yep, no compulsion there. Sigh! Remember when Public Health said that we only needed to get to 70% fully vaccinated and then we'd achieve herd immunity?! Most people who have died from COVID also had co-morbidities or were in poor health. Large angry crowd?! Clearly you haven't bothered to go down town to see for yourself. Do yourself a favour, stop getting your information from the legacy media—it's usually one-sided. Of course. Now I don't know anyone in Ottawa. Right! KRock

Krock: Children are not affected when a parent (i.e., a trucker) loses their job? That’s completely laughable. The stress and tension a family goes through in such a circumstance is something I gather you’ve never had to endure. And because of Trudeau’ draconian mandates, many families are now facing this very prospect.

There is not a single trucker in the country facing financial ruin. For years there has been a significant trucker shortage. The only thing that would change, if they are not willing to get the vaccine, which is their right, is that they would have to limit their driving within the country.

Of course, one could say that they’ve got nobody to blame but themselves. But as many other people throughout the world believe, including many who are vaccinated, the choice should be based on individual preference;

Agreed.

people shouldn’t be forced to get something they don’t want.

They aren’t.

Besides, it’s clear now that the vaccines have little to no effect on the Omicron variant. Time to move on.

“ People who are fully vaccinated with at least two doses are 83.5 per cent less likely to end up in hospital and 91.9 per cent less likely to end up in ICU compared to people who are unvaccinated” Ontario Public Health.

You are aware that school has been almost entirely remote for the last two years, right?

But when the trucks rolled into town schools were all open for business.

When did the organizers suggest that the only resolution would be bullets?

https://twitter.com/janeqcitizen/status/1483008554298605568?s=21

What inhumane tactics would those be you ask? How about the denial of fuel to the trucks, which are housing people; the intent being to freeze them out of the city. If that’s not inhumane, then I don’t know what is.

No. Inhumane would be billy-clubs and teargas. Denying them fuel to pressure them to leave is a smart tactic. And it is downtown Ottawa. It is full of hotels. Nobody is going to freeze. Besides, who in their right mind thinks that allowing large quantities of flammable liquids in a large angry crowd is a good thing?

There isn’t a single person I know who lives in Ottawa (and I know plenty of people) that is against the protesters being their;

Then you obviously don’t know many people in Ottawa. Scamp

@Scamp Children are not affected when a parent (i.e., a trucker) loses their job? That’s completely laughable. The stress and tension a family goes through in such a circumstance is something I gather you’ve never had to endure. And because of Trudeau’ draconian mandates, many families are now facing this very prospect. Of course, one could say that they’ve got nobody to blame but themselves. But as many other people throughout the world believe, including many who are vaccinated, the choice should be based on individual preference; people shouldn’t be forced to get something they don’t want. Besides, it’s clear now that the vaccines have little to no effect on the Omicron variant. Time to move on. Right, bringing your kids to a peaceful protest is irresponsible because they might miss some school. If you could only see the irony in what you’re saying. You are aware that school has been almost entirely remote for the last two years, right? When did the organizers suggest that the only resolution would be bullets? I haven’t heard or seen any such comments. What I have heard, though, was an alt-left teacher from the Catholic School Board in Ottawa suggesting that counter-protesters take up arms against the truckers—quite disturbing really. You can read about it here: https://tnc.news/2022/02/07/ottawa-teacher-suggests-taking-up-arms-against-freedom-convoy-truckers/ In addition to this lunatic, there was the recent attack by another alt-left radical in Winnipeg, in which four protesters were intentionally struck by a vehicle. The only violence I’ve seen has come from those who espouse far-left ideologies. What inhumane tactics would those be you ask? How about the denial of fuel to the trucks, which are housing people; the intent being to freeze them out of the city. If that’s not inhumane, then I don’t know what is. I agree about the horns. That would annoy anyone. However, it’s a protest, and protests are often noisy; the idea being to get the attention of those you wish to speak too. There demands haven’t changed. They want the federal mandates gone! But if they want the provinces to get rid of their stupid regulations as well, which is long overdue, then so be it. The entire world in moving on, except Canada. Enough is enough. Wonderful! I’m from Ottawa too—it’s my home town. And while I no longer live in the city, I’ve got plenty of family and friends that still do, and they haven’t seen anything you’ve claimed too. In fact, they’ve sent me a number of pictures and videos showing the complete opposite; people (from all walks of life) getting along peacefully (many just looking for a hug), and who are trying their best to be respectful to the city’s inhabitants. Or, as my brother put it to me, “it’s like Canada Day on steroids.” It's funny you say alienate the community. There isn't a single person I know who lives in Ottawa (and I know plenty of people) that is against the protesters being their; they all support it. In fact, I plan on joining some of them this weekend to show support. Honk! Honk! We're just going to have to agree to disagree. I support the truckers and their cause—it's about time someone stood up to Trudeau! It's not a self-defeating cause. On the contrary, these truckers are showing the entire world just how successful you can be when people choose to stand up to government overreach. KRock

But let me make myself clear. I am not supporting the approaches taken by the government to address COVID. Like most governments I think they have done some things right and some things wrong. But the approach taken by the trucker convoy is self-defeating. Whatever good points they have are lost in the ridiculous demands they have made and the “my way or the highway” approach they have taken to organizing this protest. If you want to gain sympathy, you don’t alienate an entire community. Marketing 101. Scamp

Krock: Give me a break. Who cares if they brought their children with them to Ottawa. The mandates themselves are affecting whole families, so why wouldn’t they all come along for the ride.

Because the mandates aren’t affecting kids. Schools are open. Only an irresponsible parent would take their children out of school to attend a protest where the organizers themselves have said that the only resolution would be bullets.

Moreover, the protests have been entirely peaceful; the only dangers coming from inhumane police tactics.

And what inhumane tactics would those be? Fining people for: 1) blasting their horns? 2) Drinking alcohol in their trucks? 3) parking their trucks in fire routes? 4) defacing property?

You’ve also missed the point. This protest isn’t about who is and who isn’t vaccinated.

Except that they said that the protest was about the requirement for truckers to be vaccinated to enter the country. Their demands change from one day to the next. If they are serious about protesting against mask mandates, vaccine passports for restaurants and other businesses, gathering limits and capacity limits in gyms, movie theatres, churches and sporting events, only an idiot would do it in Ottawa. These are provincial restrictions. Ottawa is not a provincial capital. It would be like protesting song lyrics at a gym. If you are serious about fighting for freedom for everyone, you don’t do something that is preventing hundreds of people from working, preventing hundreds of people from attending medical appointments, keeping hundreds of businesses from opening for business, flagrantly breaking laws. If you are serious, you don’t make demands that no government on earth could take seriously. By the way. I live in Ottawa and have seen the protests first hand, and the damage they are doing to other citizens and businesses. And the behaviour of a small minority of the protesters towards people who choose to wear masks and businesses who require patrons to wear masks. You can argue that these are the actions only of a small minority of protesters, which is true. But what is most telling is the complete lack of response from the other protesters who witness these reprehensible actions. Freedom also includes the freedom of people to wear masks and the freedom of businesses to require patrons to wear masks. Scamp

@Scamp Give me a break. Who cares if they brought their children with them to Ottawa. The mandates themselves are affecting whole families, so why wouldn't they all come along for the ride. Moreover, the protests have been entirely peaceful; the only dangers coming from inhumane police tactics. Human shields? Give your head a shake. You've also missed the point. This protest isn't about who is and who isn't vaccinated. I'm double vaccinated and I fully support what these truckers are fighting for. Enough is enough. Time to move on. And no, they're not a minority. Have you NOT seen the other blockades sprouting up across Canada and throughout the world? In fact, Canadian truckers may have quite literally saved the world. Yet, our own leader, who has acted like a complete ass-hat, continues to sow divide, slandering the truck drivers and their supporters with ever defamatory name possible. What an example of halfwitted leadership at the highest office. KRock

Jerry: In the US and Canada near 100% of local materials are delivered by truck. If the truckers only represent a small % of truckers then the threat is meaningless. If however, there is wide spread sympathy amongst truckers, essential products could dry up. No one knows at the moment.

Over 90% of Canadians truckers are vaccinated even though the majority do not require them. The Ottawa truckers are a very small minority of truckers. The others keep driving, delivering essential goods. Just as all concerned essential service providers have. The latest demand from the protest organizers is that they form a coalition government with the government opposition party. To add to this, 25% of the trucks in the Ottawa protest have children living in them. So, in short, they are demanding an unelected government and backing it up with human shields. Scamp

Seversky, From August, 2021, the Journal of American Therapeutics: https://journals.lww.com/americantherapeutics/fulltext/2021/08000/ivermectin_for_prevention_and_treatment_of.7.aspx

Moderate-certainty evidence finds that large reductions in COVID-19 deaths are possible using ivermectin. Using ivermectin early in the clinical course may reduce numbers progressing to severe disease. The apparent safety and low cost suggest that ivermectin is likely to have a significant impact on the SARS-CoV-2 pandemic globally.

Since the start of the SARS-CoV-2 pandemic, both observational and randomized studies have evaluated ivermectin as a treatment for, and as prophylaxis against, COVID-19 infection. A review by the Front Line COVID-19 Critical Care Alliance summarized findings from 27 studies on the effects of ivermectin for the prevention and treatment of COVID-19 infection, concluding that ivermectin “demonstrates a strong signal of therapeutic efficacy” against COVID-19.9 Another recent review found that ivermectin reduced deaths by 75%.10 Despite these findings, the National Institutes of Health in the United States recently stated that “there are insufficient data to recommend either for or against the use of ivermectin for the treatment of COVID-19,”11 and the World Health Organization recommends against its use outside of clinical trials.12

Ivermectin has exhibited antiviral activity against a wide range of RNA and some DNA viruses, for example, Zika, dengue, yellow fever, and others.13

Ivermectin is a well-known medicine that is approved as an antiparasitic by the World Health Organization and the US Food and Drug Administration. It is widely used in low- and middle-income countries (LMICs) to treat worm infections.2,3 Also used for the treatment of scabies and lice, it is one of the World Health Organization’s Essential Medicines.4 With total doses of ivermectin distributed apparently equaling one-third of the present world population,5 ivermectin at the usual doses (0.2–0.4 mg/kg) is considered extremely safe for use in humans.6,7 In addition to its antiparasitic activity, it has been noted to have antiviral and anti-inflammatory properties, leading to an increasing list of therapeutic indications.8

Yet, doctors are being censored and fired for promoting the use of Ivermectin, or for using it to treat their patients. The mainstream media ridiculed Ivermectin as "horse paste" ever since Trump mentioned it. Ivermectin has been demonstrated to be safe for humans, with little in the way of side effects. It's cheap and has been used for decades safely even against similar viruses, as the paper points out. Yet, the government effectively banned its use against COVID-19. Why? Why ban the use of a known, safe, and widely-used drug? Why stop people from using it if they want to try it? Why get in-between doctors and patients and letting patients make informed decisions about their own lives, their own healthcare? Are all these doctors and nurses who are quitting their jobs, or getting fired because they refuse to take a poorly-studied, rushed vaccine "nutjobs" and "conspiracy theorists?" Do you really believe forcing people to take an experimental injection that NO long-term studies have been done about is a good thing? How do you expect reasonable people to react when they are basically excommunicated from being able function in society simply because they want to try a safe drug or don't want to be injected with something they don't know what the long-term effects might be? William J Murray

The science says that other remedies exist. But I wouldn't expect seversky to understand the science. ET

Certainly under the Trump administration they were. So what are the alternatives, find out for yourself? Most ordinary people don't want to take the time and trouble to ferret out the actual research papers and probably wouldn't understand it if they did. Without the science you're left with conspiracy theories dreamt up by crackpots or those with more malevolent intent or half-baked medical speculations pushed as established therapies. Clinical trials? We don't need no clinical trials. Seversky

When they say "trust the science," what they really mean is "trust what government spokespersons say the science is." These have been demonstrated to be two entirely different things. William J Murray

It’s not as if they would be allowed in anyway, is it?

In the US and Canada near 100% of local materials are delivered by truck. If the truckers only represent a small % of truckers then the threat is meaningless. If however, there is wide spread sympathy amongst truckers, essential products could dry up. No one knows at the moment. jerry

Freedom Convoy Preemptive SOS Press Conference Feb.7

Seversky So, in Canada, don’t trust the science, trust the truckers? Who needs all those elitist virologists, epidemiologists, molecular biologists etc,

:lol: What science? That science that produced this virus? That science that fabricated studies against HCQ ,IVM to convince people that vaccine is the only solution? That science that says that masks work and masks don't work? That science that use PCR with over 40 cycles when they need positive tests ? About what science are you talking about? The science is congruent with the morality and dreams of people who own big pharma . A study can be tortured until sing whatever "scientist" wants or has been ordered to want. Lieutenant Commander Data

I believe the truckers said if they are forced to leave by the various methods of duress, they said they were not coming back to deliver anything.

It's not as if they would be allowed in anyway, is it? Bob O'H

EDTA; BUT, count me with the truckers and against the police and their heavy-handed tactics; this is ludicrous.

The police heavy handed tactics:

The Ottawa police issued a news release stating that on Sunday seven people had been arrested and 100 tickets issued related to demonstration enforcement. Two were arrested for mischief on Coventry Road, three others were arrested for mischief at Metcalfe and Slater streets, and two were arrested in the morning — one for driving while prohibited and the other for mischief related to property damage at a downtown business. More than 100 Highway Traffic Act and provincial offence notices were issued, police said, for offences that included excessive honking, driving the wrong way, defective muffler, no seat belt, alcohol readily available and having the improper class of driving licence….

Not exactly splitting heads or teargas.

Since Jan. 28, By-law and Regulatory Services had issued 787 parking tickets for various violations in and around the demonstration area, including 568 over the weekend, director Roger Chapman said in an emailed reply to this newspaper Sunday. “The goal of parking enforcement within the perimeter of the demonstration is to ensure that emergency lanes are clear, and the flow of traffic is maintained. All service requests directly related to the demonstration are being redirected to OPS,” the email read. “We understand that this is a frustrating and difficult time for residents who live and work in the downtown core.”

Hmm. So, keeping lanes open for emergency vehicles is a strong arm police tactic? Scamp

I don't recall anyone saying that the covid vaccine jab guaranteed you would never get covid. All any vaccine has ever done is reduce the probability of getting something to one degree or another. The only reason it's "effectively" a 100% guarantee with polio, e.g., is that you are also extremely unlikely to be around anyone with polio in the first place. (I don't think I've ever been in the same room with anyone with active polio.) If you put 10,000 polio-vaccinated people into close contact with someone with an active case, you might get one or two new polio cases out of it. The covid vaccine isn't as good as the polio vaccine either, but all any of them do is reduce probabilities. BUT, count me with the truckers and against the police and their heavy-handed tactics; this is ludicrous. (I'd invite y'all Canadians down to the US, but we have problems here too. 8-) EDTA

Jerry: I believe the truckers said if they are forced to leave by the various methods of duress, they said they were not coming back to deliver anything. No food, no gasoline or other things the Ottawa government might need

Well, that would be very mature. Threaten over a million people because they didn’t get their way. But it’s a moot point. These truckers haven’t delivered anything in two weeks and the store shelves are still full, there is no shortage of gas or anything else we need. Scamp

Your comment takes the sancta simplicitas prize, Seversky, and that’s the best that can be said of it. The truckers are complaining about the over-reaching mandates, they are not advocating different medical advice. But you know that, don’t you, you little goose-stepper for the elites. Belfast

The vaccines have failed to live up to the hype. They don't prevent you from getting sick. They don't prevent you from being a host. They don't prevent you from transmitting the virus. ET

So, in Canada, don't trust the science, trust the truckers? Who needs all those elitist virologists, epidemiologists, molecular biologists etc, when you can ask your friendly local delivery driver for the best medical advice? Seversky

I believe the truckers said if they are forced to leave by the various methods of duress, they said they were not coming back to deliver anything. No food, no gasoline or other things the Ottawa government might need. jerry