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The “Skeptical” Zone, Where You Can Be Skeptical of Anything (Except Currently Fashionable Intellectual Dogmas)

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For those of you who do not know, some months ago Elizabeth Liddle started the website known as The Skeptical Zone (TSZ). The site has a sort of symbiotic relationship with UD, because many, if not most, of the posts there key off our posts here.

Not only does TSZ have a name that invokes a skeptical turn of mind, it also has a motto apparently intended to bolster that attitude: “I beseech you, in the bowels of Christ, think it possible that you may be mistaken.” The motto is taken from Oliver Cromwell’s August 5, 1650 letter to the synod of the Church of Scotland urging them to break their alliance with royalist forces.

Now with a name and a motto like that, one might think the site is home to iconoclastic non-conformists bent on disrupting the status quo. But you would be wrong. I just finished pursuing the articles that have been posted at TSZ during the last six months. Among the regular posters there I found not a single article that even mildly criticized (far less expressed skepticism toward) a single dogma one would expect to be held by the denizens of the faculty lounge at a typical university.

Atheism. It’s true

Neo-Darwinian Synthesis. Fact beyond the slightest doubt

Philosophical materialism. Check

It seems that the regular posters at TSZ are skeptical of everything but the received wisdom, accepted conventions and cherished dogmas of the academic left. Perhaps they should change the name of the site ever so slightly to The “Skeptical” Zone. The irony quotes would make the name more honest.

Here’s a clue to the TSZ posters: If you want to be a real skeptic, perhaps you should challenge the beliefs of the secular elite that dominate our universities instead of marching in lockstep with them. The true skeptics of the early twenty-first century are those willing to take on the dogmas of the academic elite, people like Bill Dembski, Michael Behe, and Jonathan Wells.

The posters at The Skeptical Zone are skeptical alright.  They are skeptical of skeptics.  As for their motto, they certainly think it is possible that someone might be mistaken – anyone who disagrees with them or questions their deeply held beliefs.

Why don’t the posters at TSZ see the glaringly obvious irony of their enterprise? I was thinking about this question when I ran across a post by Matt Emerson over at FT. Emerson writes about how the dogmas of secularism act as a type of “revelation” that boxes in thinking in a way secularist thinkers probably don’t even perceive at a conscious level.  Emerson writes:

Even among those who declare no connection with God, reason operates under what amounts to a kind of revelation. These skeptics don’t conceive of revelation in the same way that I do as a Catholic, but for many, the ultimate source of an epistemological “guide” does not matter: Certain perceived facts, or certain foundational positions, hold the same thetical value for them as the Bible does for many Christians. For these men and women, as for the medievals, it might be technically possible to reason “outside” these givens, but why would they? To ask them to reason as if those givens were not true would be akin to asking a Christian to reason apart from the Incarnation. It just doesn’t make any sense.

Comments
You mean interventions like the rise of exquisite biological systems operating on the basis of complex functional specified information? A good example of reification Eric! ;)
Alan Fox
March 26, 2013
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Alan
Regarding the LNC and whether a thing can exist and not exist at the same time, when you try and apply this to reality and the space and time of the current universe, where there is conservation of the total of mass and energy, it becomes meaningless.
The Law of Non-Contradiction, expressed ontologically as the Law of Identity, applies to anything (or any conglomeration/aggregation of things) that exists or that could not exist.
You cannot destroy “a thing”, merely alter its constituent particles and energy into another arrangement.
The Law of Non-Contradiction holds that a thing cannot exist and not exist in the same way (or "under the same formal circumstances"). The last prepositional phrase in that formula is critical.
Moreover a “non-existent thing” is an oxymoron. Things always exist. How can a thing be “non-existent”. With reification, I guess!
You were once non-existent.StephenB
March 26, 2013
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So it sounds like you agree that a thing cannot both exist and not exist at the same time. Sounds right.
Well, not really. At the moment, I am suggesting that a non-existent thing is a meaningless concept. To be a thing, it must exist. The statement "this thing does not exist" is incoherent.Alan Fox
March 26, 2013
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AF @59: So it sounds like you agree that a thing cannot both exist and not exist at the same time. Sounds right.Eric Anderson
March 26, 2013
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One wonders what “conflated” even means when used by those that deny the necessary and universal validity of the LNC.
Regarding the LNC and whether a thing can exist and not exist at the same time, when you try and apply this to reality and the space and time of the current universe, where there is conservation of the total of mass and energy, it becomes meaningless. You cannot destroy "a thing", merely alter its constituent particles and energy into another arrangement. Moreover a "non-existent thing" is an oxymoron. Things always exist. How can a thing be "non-existent". With reification, I guess!Alan Fox
March 26, 2013
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AF @56:
. . . but it should be disprovable by demonstrating evidence of discontinuities such as miracles and interventions by the “Intelligent Designer”.
You mean interventions like the rise of exquisite biological systems operating on the basis of complex functional specified information? :)Eric Anderson
March 26, 2013
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Joe @54: I'm quite disappointed if KN actually said that. I have typically found his comments to be measured and reasonable (at least when he is posting here -- I don't know what happens elsewhere). It is true that some people (on both sides of the debate) conflate evolutionary theory with materialism. We've discussed this before on UD and I have clearly stated that they are separate (which is what KN also thinks). Further, the leading proponents of intelligent design understand the distinction and have made that clear. It is true, of course, that there are metaphysical implications flowing from both design and non-design theories. But those are separate from the theories themselves. Therefore, it is clearly false that conflation of concepts is "central to the ideological glue" of ID or some ID movement. Indeed, keeping them separate is one of the things that allows a broader participation under the umbrella of ID. I agree there are some commenters on UD who are less careful with the distinction -- partly due to the nature of quick blog comments; partly due to not carefully thinking through the issues; partly due to the fact that the word "evolution" is notoriously slippery and has many meanings (including, by the way, a purely materialistic underpinning in some cases). But those individual failings are not a reflection of any "central glue" of ID any more than the common materialist cheerleading for Darwinism is an accurate description of evolutionary theory. So I hope KN will rephrase his comment.Eric Anderson
March 26, 2013
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Phil asks:
And then why in blue blazes are you not up in arms about Darwinian gestapo tactics to silence dissent from their atheistic viewpoint?
Don't accept your premise, Phil. If there were some ID science and it proved useful and correct, it would be embraced. What gets rejected is pseudo-science. And the issue was that ID proponents wanted to inveigle some of this pseudo-science into school science classes. That had nothing to do with freedom of expression and falls also into the category of false advertising (my version).
Okie Dokie Mr. Fox, I challenge you to please support your ‘religious’ claim that the universe is materialistic/naturalistic.
I don't see why you expect me to support a claim I haven't made. My null hypothesis is that in the space and time occupied by this universe, the properties of matter and energy are fixed, continuous and consistent. I can't prove it (though it is confirmed by all scientific observations and measurements so far) but it should be disprovable by demonstrating evidence of discontinuities such as miracles and interventions by the "Intelligent Designer".Alan Fox
March 26, 2013
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One wonders what "conflated" even means when used by those that deny the necessary and universal validity of the LNC.William J Murray
March 26, 2013
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That pain in the back that you may feel? It's just Kant. Nat. backstabbing us over on TSZ:
It’s central to the ideological glue that holds together “the ID movement” that the following are all conflated:Darwin’s theories; neo-Darwinism; modern evolutionary theory; Epicurean materialistic metaphysics; Enlightenment-inspired secularism. (Maybe I’m missing one or two pieces of the puzzle.) In my judgment, a mind incapable of making the requisite distinctions hardly deserves to be taken seriously.
And fools that make false accusations hardly deserve to be taken seriously. It seems that TSZ is a haven for fools who can only make false accusations. Birds of a feather type of thing...Joe
March 26, 2013
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Most atheists in general claim that they love science but when scientific evidence goes against their worldview positions they suddenly become allergic to science. Case in point was when I went into a forum and discussed the shroud of turin . I made my points mostly from the peer reviewed research on the shroud and when they had no response from peer reviewed research to support their skepticism on the shrouds authenticity, they threw science and rationality away and started rediculing it as a dirty old rag. All I can say is I'm very thankfull for sites like UD, sites like this are where the true skeptics hang out. Thanks to sites like this I no longer believe in evolution.wallstreeter43
March 26, 2013
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Dizzie Ms Lizzie:
I honestly couldn’t care less about Joe’s link except for a) the fact that I don’t want NSFW links on this blog (not fair on other posters) and b) the fact that he is lying about why he was banned.
No, Lizzie, YOU are lying. And it is very telling that you cannot make a case for my linking to pornography. I say I was banned because you chumps are a bunch of losers who couldn't stand being exposed.Joe
March 26, 2013
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Other Mouth:
What case?
You said I posted porn. Make your case. Or shut up. However it is given that you will do neither.Joe
March 26, 2013
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Other Mouth:
What are the search terms Joe?
Well, if you are too stupid to figure that out then you are too stupid to discuss anything. Good luck wallowing in your ignorance...Joe
March 26, 2013
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Other Mouth- What is plain for everyone to see is taht YOU cannot make your case. I will not help you make your case- I can play that game too, moron.Joe
March 26, 2013
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Then be so kind as to link to that in a comment at UD, as I can’t see any such post.
You can search my blog. You do know how to do that, right?Joe
March 26, 2013
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It’s your claim that TSZ has double standards.
And I have supported it. Don't blame me for your ignorance.Joe
March 26, 2013
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OM I posted it and made my case on my blog. So stuff it, loser.Joe
March 26, 2013
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Find a similar image, and post that.
Go 4 it then. Make your case, coward.Joe
March 26, 2013
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A moment ago I thought it was not porn...
See, even you think it isn't porn.Joe
March 26, 2013
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other mouth:
What possible reason could you have for not posting such an image at UD?
1- I don't have any reason to post it 2- I don't have the link But nice to see that you are still a belligerent wanker...Joe
March 26, 2013
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OM must stand for "other mouth" for that is what it speaks from. No wonder it stinks when it posts...Joe
March 26, 2013
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Mr. Fox you also state:
But the counterbalance is that if you make a factual claim in a public forum (false advertiusing claims would be a good example; I would like that to extend to false religious claims too ;) ) you should be able to support it and be challenged on it.
Okie Dokie Mr. Fox, I challenge you to please support your 'religious' claim that the universe is materialistic/naturalistic.
Why Quantum Theory Does Not Support Materialism - Bruce Gordon PhD. Excerpt: Materialism (or physicalism or naturalism) is the view that the sum and substance of everything that exists is exhausted by physical objects and processes and whatever supervenes causally upon them. The resources available to the materialist for providing an explanation of how the universe works are therefore restricted to material objects, causes, events and processes. Because quantum theory is thought to provide the bedrock for our scientific understanding of physical reality, it is to this theory that the materialist inevitably appeals in support of his worldview. But having fled to science in search of a safe haven for his doctrines, the materialist instead finds that quantum theory in fact dissolves and defeats his materialist understanding of the world. http://www.4truth.net/fourtruthpbscience.aspx?pageid=8589952939
Here is my evidence supporting the 'religious' claim that the universe is Theistic: Due to advances in Quantum Mechanics the argument for God from consciousness, instead of relying mostly on philosophical arguments (Nagel etc..),,,
Sam Harris's Free Will: The Medial Pre-Frontal Cortex Did It - Martin Cothran - November 9, 2012 Excerpt: There is something ironic about the position of thinkers like Harris on issues like this: they claim that their position is the result of the irresistible necessity of logic (in fact, they pride themselves on their logic). Their belief is the consequent, in a ground/consequent relation between their evidence and their conclusion. But their very stated position is that any mental state -- including their position on this issue -- is the effect of a physical, not logical cause. By their own logic, it isn't logic that demands their assent to the claim that free will is an illusion, but the prior chemical state of their brains. The only condition under which we could possibly find their argument convincing is if they are not true. The claim that free will is an illusion requires the possibility that minds have the freedom to assent to a logical argument, a freedom denied by the claim itself. It is an assent that must, in order to remain logical and not physiological, presume a perspective outside the physical order. http://www.evolutionnews.org/2012/11/sam_harriss_fre066221.html
The argument for God from consciousness can now be, empirically, framed like this:
1. Consciousness either preceded all of material reality or is a 'epi-phenomena' of material reality. 2. If consciousness is a 'epi-phenomena' of material reality then consciousness will be found to have no special position within material reality. Whereas conversely, if consciousness precedes material reality then consciousness will be found to have a special position within material reality. 3. Consciousness is found to have a special, even central, position within material reality. 4. Therefore, consciousness is found to precede material reality. Four intersecting lines of experimental evidence from quantum mechanics that shows that consciousness precedes material reality (Wigner’s Quantum Symmetries, Wheeler’s Delayed Choice, Leggett’s Inequalities, Quantum Zeno effect): https://docs.google.com/document/d/1G_Fi50ljF5w_XyJHfmSIZsOcPFhgoAZ3PRc_ktY8cFo/edit "The impossibility of conceiving that this grand and wondrous universe, with our conscious selves, arose through chance, seems to me the chief argument for the existence of God." Charles Darwin to Doedes, N. D. - Letter - 2 Apr 1873
Footnote: Here’s a recent variation of Wheeler’s Delayed Choice experiment, which highlights the ability of the conscious observer to effect 'spooky action into the past', thus further solidifying consciousness's centrality in reality. Furthermore in the following experiment, the claim that past material states determine future conscious choices (determinism) is falsified by the fact that present conscious choices effect past material states:
Quantum physics mimics spooky action into the past - April 23, 2012 Excerpt: The authors experimentally realized a "Gedankenexperiment" called "delayed-choice entanglement swapping", formulated by Asher Peres in the year 2000. Two pairs of entangled photons are produced, and one photon from each pair is sent to a party called Victor. Of the two remaining photons, one photon is sent to the party Alice and one is sent to the party Bob. Victor can now choose between two kinds of measurements. If he decides to measure his two photons in a way such that they are forced to be in an entangled state, then also Alice's and Bob's photon pair becomes entangled. If Victor chooses to measure his particles individually, Alice's and Bob's photon pair ends up in a separable state. Modern quantum optics technology allowed the team to delay Victor's choice and measurement with respect to the measurements which Alice and Bob perform on their photons. "We found that whether Alice's and Bob's photons are entangled and show quantum correlations or are separable and show classical correlations can be decided after they have been measured", explains Xiao-song Ma, lead author of the study. According to the famous words of Albert Einstein, the effects of quantum entanglement appear as "spooky action at a distance". The recent experiment has gone one remarkable step further. "Within a naïve classical world view, quantum mechanics can even mimic an influence of future actions on past events", says Anton Zeilinger. http://phys.org/news/2012-04-quantum-physics-mimics-spooky-action.html
In other words, if my conscious choices really are just merely the result of whatever state the material particles in my brain happen to be in in the past (deterministic) how in blue blazes are my choices instantaneously effecting the state of material particles into the past?,,, Since our free will choices figure so prominently in how reality is actually found to be constructed in our understanding of quantum mechanics (to the point of demarcating 'randomness' from consciousness; Quantum Zeno Effect),, I think a Christian perspective on just how important our free will choices are in this temporal life, in regards to our eternal destiny, is very fitting:
Is God Good? (Free will and the problem of evil) - video http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Rfd_1UAjeIA G.O.S.P.E.L. Poetry Slam; To The Point Propitiation - video http://vimeo.com/20960385 “There are only two kinds of people in the end: those who say to God, "Thy will be done," and those to whom God says, in the end, "Thy will be done." All that are in Hell, choose it. Without that self-choice there could be no Hell." - C.S. Lewis, The Great Divorce video - former militant atheist Howard Storm continues to share his gripping story of his own near death experience. Today, he picks up just as Jesus was rescuing him from the horrors of Hell and carrying him into the glories of Heaven. http://www.daystar.com/ondemand/joni-heaven-howard-storm-j924/#.UKvFrYYsE31
Music and verse:
Nichole Nordeman - "What If (You're Wrong?)" http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EUGQFH03apc Matthew 7:13-14 "Enter through the narrow gate. For wide is the gate and broad is the road that leads to destruction, and many enter through it. But small is the gate and narrow the road that leads to life, and only a few find it.
bornagain77
March 26, 2013
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Actually Joe, I don’t have the link anymore.
Neither do I.Joe
March 26, 2013
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Yup, childish and ignorant:
If what you posted was not pornography then it won’t offend anybody if you post that same link at UD.
So only porn offends people? What are you a total moron? Ya see people, this is what happens when losers can't make their case.Joe
March 26, 2013
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To the septic zone ilk- Your childish antics and opinions mean nothing. If you think I posted a link to pornography then make your case. Cite the definition of pornography and then show how that picture meets the definition. I dare you to try. Or shut up.Joe
March 26, 2013
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Lizzie sez:
It’s porn by the standards of this website.
Your website's employs double-standards, and standards that the rest of the world doesn't use. It doesn't fit the definition of porn, Lizzie. Your opinion means nothing. Now go back to thinking DNA is a self-replicator. Nothing like exposing your ignorance to prove MY point.Joe
March 26, 2013
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Lizzie sez:
Right now there is a preponderance of people who take issue with the claims of ID (not surprisingly, as I do myself, and it is my blog),
And yet not one of you can come up with a viable (testable) alternative. And no one has ever linked to porn on your site. NeverJoe
March 26, 2013
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Mr. Fox you state:
What drives me is the conviction that there is a fundamental right to free expression and any limits on those rights are worthy of the deepest scepticism.
And then why in blue blazes are you not up in arms about Darwinian gestapo tactics to silence dissent from their atheistic viewpoint?
EXPELLED - Starring Ben Stein - Part 1 of 10 - video http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cIZAAh_6OXg Slaughter of Dissidents - Book "If folks liked Ben Stein's movie "Expelled: No Intelligence Allowed," they will be blown away by "Slaughter of the Dissidents." - Russ Miller Origins - Slaughter of the Dissidents with Dr. Jerry Bergman - video http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y6rzaM_BxBk
neo-Darwinists have a legal history of trying to suppress free speech in America through the court:
On the Fundamental Difference Between Darwin-Inspired and Intelligent Design-Inspired Lawsuits - September 2011 Excerpt: Darwin lobby litigation: In every Darwin-inspired case listed above, the Darwin lobby sought to shut down free speech, stopping people from talking about non-evolutionary views, and seeking to restrict freedom of intellectual inquiry. ID movement litigation: Seeks to expand intellectual inquiry and free speech rights to talk about non-evolutionary views. http://www.evolutionnews.org/2011/09/on_the_fundamental_difference_050451.html
Ironically:
Intelligent Design Supporter Expelled from Civil Liberties Organization - podcast - January 2013 http://intelligentdesign.podomatic.com/entry/2013-01-18T19_01_00-08_00
As well,,
“In the last few years I have seen a saddening progression at several institutions. I have witnessed unfair treatment upon scientists that do not accept macroevolutionary arguments and for their having signed the above-referenced statement regarding the examination of Darwinism. (Dissent from Darwinism list)(I will comment no further regarding the specifics of the actions taken upon the skeptics; I love and honor my colleagues too much for that.) I never thought that science would have evolved like this. I deeply value the academy; teaching, professing and research in the university are my privileges and joys… ” Professor James M. Tour – one of the ten most cited chemists in the world https://uncommondescent.com/intelligent-design/a-world-famous-chemist-tells-the-truth-theres-no-scientist-alive-today-who-understands-macroevolution/ Scientific Dissent From Darwinism List http://www.dissentfromdarwin.org/ Academic Freedom Under Fire — Again! - October 2010 Excerpt: All Dr. Avital wanted to do was expose students to some of the weaknesses inherent in Darwin’s theory. Surely there’s no harm in that — or so one would think. But, of course, to the Darwinian faithful, such weaknesses apparently do not exist. http://www.evolutionnews.org/2010/10/academic_freedom_under_fire_-_038911.html
Here Dr. Behe relates how the president of the National Academy of Sciences sought to ostracize him for supporting Intelligent Design:
TEDxLehighU - Michael Behe - Intelligent Design - video http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FCP9UDFNHlo Darwin's diabolical delusions - Ellis Washington - September 2011 Excerpt: Tragically, for over 150 years since the publication of Darwin's diabolical, anti-scientific book, "On the Origin of Species by Means of Natural Selection, or the Preservation of Favoured Races in the Struggle for Life," nonpartisan science, truth, logic and deductive reasoning have been ruthlessly suppressed and replaced with state-funded Darwinist propaganda, groupthink, education atheism, liberal fascism and Machiavellian tactics as demonstrated in the Sewell case representing the ongoing battles between the Darwin Gestapo and Intelligent Design scientists. http://www.wnd.com/index.php?fa=PAGE.view&pageId=343445
bornagain77
March 26, 2013
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The posters at The Skeptical Zone are skeptical alright. They are skeptical of skeptics. As for their motto, they certainly think it is possible that someone might be mistaken – anyone who disagrees with them or questions their deeply held beliefs.
Pardon, I meant to quote this earlier but left it out. Pretty much the most accurate, concise summary of TSZ. That's not to say it's a problem specific to the Holy Followers of Darwin and the Cult of Gnu, but it's worth pointing out when it shows up.nullasalus
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