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The Ubiquitous Miracles Of Our Existence

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In another thread, I asked daveS why he was an atheist. He responded:

The proposition “there is no god” also appears to me to be consistent with what I observe in the world.

When asked what that meant, he expanded:

Well, I don’t know of any inconsistencies between this proposition and my observations. For example, I’m not aware of a god blatantly intervening in the world, as some people say happens.

I’ve addressed this in the other thread, but this comment is reflective of what a lot of atheists say is a convincing lack of evidence for god: the supposed lack of observed miracles. Atheists think we live in a world that looks like a world without a god. Of course, that’s circular reasoning based upon a groundless assumption; the assumption that what we experience is what we would be experiencing if there were no god and no supernatural commodities – a world dictated by more-or-less predictable cause-and-effect sequences of matter interacting according to intrinsic properties and orderly patterns.

Unrecognized by atheists, however is that therein lies what I call the ubiquitous miracles of our existence. We don’t consider them miraculous because we take them so utterly for granted that we, for the most part, aren’t even consciously aware of these miracles.  We’re blind to the miraculous because the nature of our very existence is miraculous.

1. The miracle of an orderly, predictable experiential context. What if the universe was not orderly? What if the constants and properties that guide matter into patterned behaviors were not constant at all? What if they fluctuated randomly? Why should matter have any consistent properties at all? What holds these properties and forces at certain values?  Without an orderly universe, how would we have any rational thoughts? Nothing would be coherent.  How would we even come into existence unless something was keeping activity in the universe orderly?

2. The miracle of an individual conscious existence. Why should interacting matter become conscious and have individualistic thoughts? How does such a thing even happen? Why should our thoughts be apparently controllable and orderly? How is it that we can seemingly create a virtually unlimited amount of highly complex, coherent ideas/information on demand?

3. The miracle of mind over matter. How is it that without any knowledge whatsoever of how any of it works, we can simply will an action and cause the correct sequences of countless microscopic physical interactions to properly occur to achieve body movement? I was playing with my year-old great granddaughter the other day and she saw me wiggle my eyebrows, then immediately wiggled hers. Okay, she had no idea how to do that, and couldn’t even see herself doing it. How did she wiggle her eyebrows in response? It can’t be anything other than her, in whatever conscious state she has developed at this point, seeing me do a thing and then willing her body to do the same thing, and the her body immediately and correctly translating a pre-language, entirely uneducated intent into countless physico-chemical events that ended up being her wiggling her eyebrows.

I honestly don’t know how anything gets any more miraculous than that which we take for granted every moment of our existence. IMO, the existence of an orderly, predictable world where conscious entities exist and have intentional control (to a large degree) over their physical bodies and thoughts, and the existence of logic and mathematics as functionally valid correspondences to that experience is far, far more profoundly miraculous than if I saw somebody flying or solving a super-complex problem or parting an inland sea. Frankly, I’ve seen “miraculous” faith healings and all kinds of “miraculous” things that most people would simply not believe unless they experience them (and perhaps not even then), and none of it even remotely compares to the ubiquitous, every-day miracles that allow all of us this incredible experience of being deliberate, conscious entities in an orderly, lawfully predictable universe.

Comments
AnimatedDust "The animate bag of chemicals known as rvb8 regurgitates unsophisticated disproven pablum, assigns it meaning, significance and truth value. And is completely unwilling to consider the folly of his position." Animate bags of chemicals don't consider folly.CannuckianYankee
September 30, 2016
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Colliding atoms coming up eventually with QM is a bobby-dazzler, too - breathtakingly insane. In the words of a modern poet, with a sublime gift for riotously colourful and discursive, indeed, almost anecdotal similes, clearly American : rvb8 must be as 'crazy as a long-tailed cat in a roomful of rocking-chairs'.Axel
September 30, 2016
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Where our worldly analytical intelligence seems to have foundered irretrievably, in seeking to understand quantum physics, perhaps, the 'revolutionary way of thinking' adverted to by one of the physicists (or philosophers of science) in BA77's video in his post #20, that it seems will be required for the purpose, is the spiritual 'unitive intelligence' of the mainstream religions, notably, though unsurprisingly, Christianity. But then, does it not seem highly likely to have been the Holy Spirit that enlightened the unitive intelligence of the minds of the great paradigm-changers of physics, drawing together the strands of their intelligence qua information ? It is surely unsurprising that the likes of Bohr (half-Jewish), Einstein and Pauli should have lost their faith in institutional Judaism and Christianity during WWII and the lead-up to it, but it had certainly left its mark on them and their thinking. In fact, Pauli remarked that his discoveries were preceded by mystical insights, though he tested them rigorously. Below is an article about Einstein's unambiguous deism (essentially, as in the case of Spinoza panentheism, NOT pantheism) : http://www.bethinking.org/god/did-einstein-believe-in-godAxel
September 30, 2016
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Marfin @ your #8, Silence came the stern reply from rvb8. However credit where it's due. Too many of his atheist co-religionists, while ignoring that precise and comprehensive rebuttal, as if it had never been uttered, would simply have chosen to ramble on incoherently. Incidentally, I believe it is a truism of all the major religions, actually, that everything in the world is supernatural.Axel
September 30, 2016
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rvb8- You seem to hold a position in spite of the evidence I know how you feel I was the same but in my twenties I became a Christian and believed in God not because I wanted to but because the evidence pointed that way.The most reasonable explanation for the universe and all it contains is an intelligent creator , and not nothing followed by random events. Can you imaging Boeing , or Porsche telling their share holders about this great new way of production you start with nothing or you start with something raw metal and we start the production process and we make mistakes and we keep choosing the best mistakes and move on from there and hey presto a 747 or a 911.any reasonable person would consider it ludicrous , so why dont you. Please rvb8 go with the evidence it will be better for you in the long run.Marfin
September 30, 2016
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Well, to be fair, VY, rvb8 has said repeatedly that technical jargon and lengthy articles make his head hurt. It's better for his overall well being to just assume that all wikipedia articles and scientific research (no matter how outdated or discredited) supports his materialist faith.William J Murray
September 30, 2016
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And here's what your article has to say right there in the intro:
After Miller's death in 2007, scientists examining sealed vials preserved from the original experiments were able to show that there were actually well over 20 different amino acids produced in Miller's original experiments. That is considerably more than what Miller originally reported, and more than the 20 that naturally occur in life.[7] More-recent evidence suggests that Earth's original atmosphere might have had a different composition from the gas used in the Miller experiment. But prebiotic experiments continue to produce racemic mixtures of simple to complex compounds under varying conditions
Try and make your pseudoscientific comments less noticeable.Vy
September 30, 2016
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Wikipedia has an excellent article on Miller/Urey. The experiment which, after one week of continuous work, produced all 20 amino acids necessary for life; or there was an ‘intervention’.
So after clamoring for days for UD to post a "scientific" article, your best "scientific" comment in favor of your religion's creation myth is to go and read about an utterly discredited experiment on Wikipedia? That and some insane babble on how your probablymaybecouldness god added pixie dust into the mix and presto, celestial bodies and mindless forces began trying to make life for no reason whatsoever! Are you serious? In all the spaghettified connections in your "brain", you sincerely believe this daft scenario is natural? Really? I guess the great commission for Atheists is to show how utterly destructive their religion is to anyone willing to hold on to their thinking faculties. That would certainly explain your consistency at posting nonsense.Vy
September 30, 2016
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The animate bag of chemicals known as rvb8 regurgitates unsophisticated disproven pablum, assigns it meaning, significance and truth value. And is completely unwilling to consider the folly of his position. Sad.AnimatedDust
September 30, 2016
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WJM you state:
I’ve seen “miraculous” faith healings and all kinds of “miraculous” things that most people would simply not believe unless they experience them (and perhaps not even then), and none of it even remotely compares to the ubiquitous, every-day miracles that allow all of us this incredible experience of being deliberate, conscious entities in an orderly, lawfully predictable universe.
Eric Metaxas, after reviewing the fine-tuning of the universe for life, and the multitude of parameters that must be met in order for the earth to even be able to host life, makes much the same remark as you did WJM:
“Reason and science compels us to see what previous generations could not: that our existence is an outrageous and astonishing miracle, one so startlingly and perhaps so disturbingly miraculous that it makes any miracle like the parting of the Red Sea pale in such insignificance that it almost becomes unworthy of our consideration, as though it were something done easily by a child, half-asleep. It is something to which the most truly human response is some combination of terror and wonder, of ancient awe, and childhood joy.”  Eric Metaxas – Miracles – pages 55-56
The first part of Eric's book "Miracles" is devoted to establishing, scientifically, that our mere existence should, by all rights, be considered miraculous. Whereas the second part of his book is devoted to telling personal miracles that have happened in the lives of people that Eric personally knows and trust. As well, as telling of a miracle(s) that happened in his own life. Eric writes his book in this order so to establish the fact that there is really nothing, scientifically, that prevents the miraculous from happening in our personal lives. And while appealing to the fine-tuning of the laws of the universe, and to the 'miraculous' habitability of our planet, is certainly a valid way to go about establishing that miracles are not impossible in our personal lives, I was a bit surprised that Eric did not touch on Quantum Mechanics in his book. If the fine-tuning of the laws of the universe, and to the 'miraculous' habitability of our planet, is enough to establish that miracles are not scientifically impossible in our own lives, then quantum mechanics should be enough to establish the fact that miracles should be downright EXPECTED in our personal lives. For a prime example of some of the overtly 'miraculous' characteristics of Quantum Mechanics, I refer to the following experiment:
New Mind-blowing Experiment Confirms That Reality Doesn’t Exist If You Are Not Looking at It - June 3, 2015 Excerpt: The results of the Australian scientists’ experiment, which were published in the journal Nature Physics, show that this choice is determined by the way the object is measured, which is in accordance with what quantum theory predicts. “It proves that measurement is everything. At the quantum level, reality does not exist if you are not looking at it,” said lead researcher Dr. Andrew Truscott in a press release.,,, “The atoms did not travel from A to B. It was only when they were measured at the end of the journey that their wave-like or particle-like behavior was brought into existence,” he said. Thus, this experiment adds to the validity of the quantum theory and provides new evidence to the idea that reality doesn’t exist without an observer. http://themindunleashed.org/2015/06/new-mind-blowing-experiment-confirms-that-reality-doesnt-exist-if-you-are-not-looking-at-it.html
Now if reality not existing without an observer looking at it is not enough to 'scientifically' establish that the miraculous is to be downright expected in our personal lives, I certainly don't know what type of scientific evidence would ever convince the committed atheist that the miraculous is to be downright expected in our personal lives. Scott Aaronson, MIT associate Professor of quantum computation, put the situation like this:
“Look, we all have fun ridiculing the creationists who think the world sprang into existence on October 23, 4004 BC at 9AM (presumably Babylonian time), with the fossils already in the ground, light from distant stars heading toward us, etc. But if we accept the usual picture of quantum mechanics, then in a certain sense the situation is far worse: the world (as you experience it) might as well not have existed 10^-43 seconds ago!” – Scott Aaronson – MIT associate Professor quantum computation - Lecture 11: Decoherence and Hidden Variables
As well, John Wheeler and Paul Davies stated:
“We have become participators in the existence of the universe. We have no right to say that the past exists independent of the act of observation.” – John Wheeler “Reality is in the observations, not in the electron.” – Paul Davies
Moreover, if we examine the mathematical details behind Quantum Mechanics, we are, as Theists, further vindicated in our belief that God 'miraculously' sustains reality in its moment by moment existence. An ‘uncollapsed’ photon, in its quantum wave state, is mathematically defined as ‘infinite’ information:
Explaining Information Transfer in Quantum Teleportation: Armond Duwell †‡ University of Pittsburgh Excerpt: In contrast to a classical bit, the description of a (quantum) qubit requires an infinite amount of information. The amount of information is infinite because two real numbers are required in the expansion of the state vector of a two state quantum system (Jozsa 1997, 1) http://www.cas.umt.edu/phil/faculty/duwell/DuwellPSA2K.pdf Quantum Computing – Stanford Encyclopedia Excerpt: Theoretically, a single qubit can store an infinite amount of information, yet when measured (and thus collapsing the Quantum Wave state) it yields only the classical result (0 or 1),,, http://plato.stanford.edu/entries/qt-quantcomp/#2.1
Moreover, this 'infinite information' quantum qubit is also mathematically defined as being in an 'infinite dimensional' state:
The Unreasonable Effectiveness of Mathematics in the Natural Sciences – Eugene Wigner – 1960 Excerpt: We now have, in physics, two theories of great power and interest: the theory of quantum phenomena and the theory of relativity.,,, The two theories operate with different mathematical concepts: the four dimensional Riemann space and the infinite dimensional Hilbert space, http://www.dartmouth.edu/~matc/MathDrama/reading/Wigner.html Wave function Excerpt "wave functions form an abstract vector space",,, This vector space is infinite-dimensional, because there is no finite set of functions which can be added together in various combinations to create every possible function. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wave_function#Wave_functions_as_an_abstract_vector_space
Thus every time we observe/measure, (i.e. collapse a quantum wave of), a single photon we are actually seeing just a single bit of information that was originally created from a very specific set of infinite information that was known by the infinite consciousness that preceded material reality. i.e. information that was known only by the infinite Mind of omnipresent, omniscient, omnipotent, God!
Job 38:19-20 “What is the way to the abode of light? And where does darkness reside? Can you take them to their places? Do you know the paths to their dwellings?” Hebrews 11:3 By faith we understand that the worlds were prepared by the word of God, so that what is seen was made from things that are not visible.
Here is a video that goes over the preceding 'infinite information' evidence from quantum mechanics and points out how all of that preceding 'infinite information' evidence, as well as other evidence from Quantum Electrodynamics, meshes perfectly with what we would expect from Christian presuppositions:
Double Slit, Quantum-Electrodynamics, and Christian Theism - video https://www.facebook.com/philip.cunningham.73/videos/vb.100000088262100/1127450170601248/?type=2&theater
Verses
John 1:1-4 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. The same was in the beginning with God. All things were made through him; and without him was not anything made that hath been made. In him was life; and the life was the light of men.
bornagain77
September 30, 2016
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rvb8- I apologise re last reply , as soon as you mentioned Miller/Urey I should have realise you had done virtually no research on where science is with OOL. The Miller/Urey experiment was conducted in 1952 Thats over 60 years ago ,seriously you need update your reading material. For a simple start go to this website and look up the post about James M Tour and use the links to go to all the relevant info, and then maybe we can talk.Marfin
September 30, 2016
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rvb8-I know you are not a scientist neither am I but you reply to my post with a story not science it contains almost no experimental or observational evidence its literally just a story. The miller /urey experiment supports my position not yours as it shows that even using the best science known to man all you get when trying to make life is some left and right handed amino acids in a goo which prevents the process going any further. Pasteur showed life only and always comes from preceding life and that of its own kind, please state the law of nature which shows something other than this. Life has never by observation or experimentation arisen from non living matter , thats not ever NEVER, so why do you believe it did, surely not because of the evidence but because of your atheistic world view all the scientific evidence points only one way but you go the other, now why is that.Marfin
September 30, 2016
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Noooo, the building blocks of life came from the first stars, and continue to be produced by Super Novas, and are ubiquitous throughout the universe. The energy required to start this process of trial and error combinations of these chemicals and water, came from the sun, the heat of the earth, impacting astroids, electrical storms etc Wikipedia has an excellent article on Miller/Urey. The experiment which, after one week of continuous work, produced all 20 amino acids necessary for life; or there was an 'intervention'. Now, how did these organic molecules, and amino acids combine to form the earliest life; don't know, no one does. Feel free to insert anything in this gap. Best hurry gaps have a tendency to close. This is also the reason miracles are less flashy and more mundane these days. Most of the miracles of the past, or events that seemed supernatural, have been explained. Eartquakes and the like.rvb8
September 30, 2016
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rvb8- So we agree that the origin of life was a miracle as life arising from non living matter surely negates the laws of nature , unless you know otherwise, if you do please state the law.Marfin
September 30, 2016
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I've given you a clear definition above; 'a reversal, or negation of the laws of nature.' Superman, or a thing that defies the 'known' laws of nature. This of course is not an argument against God, I'm with Mr Dawkins there; 99% sure, and am quite happy for you to build faith upon the remaining 1%.rvb8
September 29, 2016
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rvb8- -As far as you are concerned there are no such thing as miracles , please give us your definition of a miracle so we can have a basis for discussion.Marfin
September 29, 2016
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The ubiquitous miracle of our existance? I'm okay with that language. It is of course no departure from known laws, and does not require outside forces, but sure, our existance is sufficientry improbable to use that language, as a way of expressing our wonder at least. I think when an atheist hears the spiritual use this word however, they and the religious take from it entirely different meanings. The atheist is awed by scale, forces, and the interaction of a wonderfully improbable nature. Of how the particles in our tiny area of the universe came together, and is gob smacked. The religious say, 'see, this is so stupendously unlikely, it is a miracle, chance can not exlain it!' That is where you stumble, because chance and the interaction of forces and matter can explain it. What it can't explain is life after death, angels, the flood, parting the oceans, and all of Christ's miracles; utterly unproven miracles. I suppose the atheist is dissapointed with this God, who used to work on a far grander scale. Basically to really count, a miracle should be just that, the reversal, or negation of the laws of nature; I have never seen this and only heard second, third, and fourth, fifth etc, hand accounts. Or, read about them; Not good enough, sorry. We use the word 'miracle' in different ways, to us it is the extremely improbable, to you evidence of an outside, beyond nature force; God perhaps. But after all that the old question remains; 'Where is the evidence of this beyond nature force? And beyond the explicable behaviour of your grand daughter, where is your poof?'rvb8
September 29, 2016
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Barry Arrington @27, Chesterton's Orthodoxy had a profound impact on me as a young man. It is a great work. Barry, you ought to do an article on some of Chesterton's deeply piercing analysis of the contemporary, worldly thought of his day. It is helpful in understanding the deficiencies of that of our own times.harry
September 29, 2016
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Jimmontg @ 10: Amen. Thank you for sharing that testimony.Truth Will Set You Free
September 29, 2016
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Funny what we call miracles. I believe that living through the death of my son who was burned to death is a miracle. His Mama was angry at God, I wasn't at all. I was just and still am brokenhearted, but never angry as I just felt I had no right to be. That's a miracle that I have grown that much to where I understand I have no claim about my son, he was full grown and was a decent hardworking young man and he belonged to God and always did. God has the right to do what He wants. I do not know why He included Evil in His Plan for this world, but since He is God Almighty His Plan has to be the Best Plan. I have also seen one real actual beyond the laws of nature undeniable miracle once and that was my other son who fell while running and hit his head on the metal corner of a door jamb. He was laying there unconscious just barely moving his head back and forth with a huge welt and cut down the middle of his forehead. His mother and I prayed as hard as we could and we watched his head heal and turn back to normal and he awoke and was just fine and wasn't crying or anything. He was 3 years old. I wonder what an atheist would think if it was his child and a christian just happened to be there and prayed for the child and God healed him or her like he did my son. If you actually saw what happened to my son you would have to say it was a miracle, but maybe not if you were devoted to your atheism as so many seem to be. I often wonder why so many of them get their panties in a bunch and accuse people of faith of "child abuse" and all kinds of abusive names when they themselves believe in nothing and claim to have "no faith". They come from nothing and are going to nothing so why does this life seem to worry them so much that they feel the need to evangelize their nothingness to the rest of us? I mean after all they, all the people on this planet and all the Universe and universes we can't see ultimately mean NOTHING. Now and forever nothing. We are derived from some kind of creative dirt (enzymes can't form proteins underwater) and back to dirt we go. I call them the Dirt people unless they believe life was sent here by unknowable aliens from an unknown planet. I could go on and on, but I'm just a fool who believes in a Bronze age God who chose a people for Himself and out of that nation He would come Himself and die for us and rise from the dead. Leaving us with an unprecedented concept of a God that Loves us and suffers for us. What work must we do so he will save us? Now all we have to do is hope and trust in the One whom He has sent and He sent the Lord Jesus Christ. Almost all honest historians believe what the Bible says about Him except the miracles and the Resurrection. so all anyone has to do is explain away the Resurrection plausibly. Even the Talmud never denied he did miracles, they said he was a sorcerer and used dark magic. Amazing, even His enemies corroborate the miracles Jesus did in a negative way. Most "arguments" are mostly assertions that God can't do miracles. Well if there is a God (there is, see above) then He can do as He pleases.jimmontg
September 29, 2016
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Origines and daveS,
Origines: All of reality is miraculous. A person who understands reality will never be able to say: “Is that all? I always expected the explanation to be something extraordinary”. The probability for a down-to-earth unfantastic explanation for reality is exactly zero, since all proposed solutions—convincing or not—are mind-boggling: an infinite regress of causes, a multiverse, a universe from nothing, sheer dumb luck, Uncaused Cause … to name but a few. I think it’s very important that we all, theists and atheists alike, understand this unsettling fact. Things are astounding no matter what. There is no normalcy at all in ultimate explanations.
daveS: I agree with the part about all proposed solutions (even theistic ones) being mind-boggling.
I agree with both of you on this point, and I also think it is an important one to recognize and think on for a few reasons. First of all, it shows the soundbyte often invoked by atheists that "extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence"[1] to be a trivial objection to theistic explanations of origins, because all explanations relating to origins are inherently extraordinary. There is no "ordinary" explanation for the events and realities in question. That said, we must realize that not all extraordinary explanations are made equal simply as a result of all being extraordinary. For example, being "extraordinary" does not relieve an explanation from the requirement of being logically coherent. And among those logically coherent explanations that remain, they must be judged according to their explanatory power and scope, as well as their degree of ad hoc-ness, which I have addressed in a recent thread. --------- [1] daveS, I recall you've said elsewhere that you don't necessarily subscribe to this viewpoint, so this comment is meant generally.HeKS
September 29, 2016
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BA @ 7: "The point Chesterton makes is both obvious and irrefutable. Yet it somehow escapes our materialist friends." Why does this "obvious and irrefutable" truth escape them? The short answer can be found in 2 Thessalonians 2:11.Truth Will Set You Free
September 29, 2016
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When we are asked why eggs turn to birds or fruits fall in autumn, we must answer exactly as the fairy godmother would answer if Cinderella asked her why mice turned to horses or her clothes fell from her at twelve o’clock. We must answer that it is MAGIC. It is not a ‘law,’ for we do not understand its general formula. It is not a necessity, for though we can count on it happening practically, we have no right to say that it must always happen. It is no argument for unalterable law (as Huxley fancied) that we count on the ordinary course of things. We do not count on it; we bet on it. We risk the remote possibility of a miracle as we do that of a poisoned pancake or a world-destroying comet. We leave it out of account, not because it is a miracle, and therefore an impossibility, but because it is a miracle, and therefore an exception. All the terms used in the science books, ‘law,’ ‘necessity,’ ‘order,’ ‘tendency,’ and so on, are really unintellectual, because they assume an inner synthesis, which we do not possess. The only words that ever satisfied me as describing Nature are the terms used in the fairy books, ‘charm,’ ‘spell,’ ‘enchantment.’ They express the arbitrariness of the fact and its mystery. A tree grows fruit because it is a MAGIC tree. Water runs downhill because it is bewitched.
G.K. Chesterton, Orthodoxy The point Chesterton makes is both obvious and irrefutable. Yet it somehow escapes our materialist friends.Barry Arrington
September 29, 2016
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Either the laws of the universe or to be considered miraculous because the Agent causality of God is behind those laws of the universe, or else the Atheist is committed to denying agent causality altogether, even his own, in which the atheist winds up in epistemological failure. Simply put, in denying God, the atheist ends up denying his own free will.
A Professor's Journey out of Nihilism: Why I am not an Atheist - University of Wyoming - J. Budziszewski Excerpt page12: "There were two great holes in the argument about the irrelevance of God. The first is that in order to attack free will, I supposed that I understood cause and effect; I supposed causation to be less mysterious than volition. If anything, it is the other way around. I can perceive a logical connection between premises and valid conclusions. I can perceive at least a rational connection between my willing to do something and my doing it. But between the apple and the earth, I can perceive no connection at all. Why does the apple fall? We don't know. "But there is gravity," you say. No, "gravity" is merely the name of the phenomenon, not its explanation. "But there are laws of gravity," you say. No, the "laws" are not its explanation either; they are merely a more precise description of the thing to be explained, which remains as mysterious as before. For just this reason, philosophers of science are shy of the term "laws"; they prefer "lawlike regularities." To call the equations of gravity "laws" and speak of the apple as "obeying" them is to speak as though, like the traffic laws, the "laws" of gravity are addressed to rational agents capable of conforming their wills to the command. This is cheating, because it makes mechanical causality (the more opaque of the two phenomena) seem like volition (the less). In my own way of thinking the cheating was even graver, because I attacked the less opaque in the name of the more. The other hole in my reasoning was cruder. If my imprisonment in a blind causality made my reasoning so unreliable that I couldn't trust my beliefs, then by the same token I shouldn't have trusted my beliefs about imprisonment in a blind causality. But in that case I had no business denying free will in the first place." http://www.undergroundthomist.org/sites/default/files/WhyIAmNotAnAtheist.pdf Agent Causality (of Theists) vs. Blind Causality (of Atheists) – video https://youtu.be/7pnnT0QvWr4
In fact, in denying God, the atheist winds up in a much worse position than just denyting his own free will. In denying God, the atheist ends up in what I term 'catastrophic epistemological failure'. If we cast aside the basic Theistic presuppositions about the rational intelligibility of the universe and the ability of our mind to comprehend that rational intelligibility, and try to use naturalism as our basis for understanding the universe, and for practicing science, (i.e. methodological naturalism), then everything within that artificially imposed atheistic/naturalistic worldview, (i.e. sense of self. observation of reality, beliefs about reality, free will, even reality itself), collapses into self refuting, unrestrained, flights of fantasy and imagination.
Darwinian evolution, and atheism/naturalism in general, are built entirely upon a framework of illusions and fantasy – Sept. 2016 https://docs.google.com/document/d/1Q94y-QgZZGF0Q7HdcE-qdFcVGErhWxsVKP7GOmpKD6o/edit
It would be hard to find a more unscientific worldview than atheistic materialism has turned out to be! Quote:
Earth’s crammed with heaven, And every common bush afire with God; But only he who sees, takes off his shoes, The rest sit round it and pluck blackberries. - Elizabeth Barrett Browning
bornagain77
September 29, 2016
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DaveS you know what is a miracle? Chemical reactions thinking about miracles.... There is a miracle for you.Andre
September 29, 2016
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Origenes,
The probability for a down-to-earth unfantastic explanation for reality is exactly zero, since all proposed solutions—convincing or not—are mind-boggling: an infinite regress of causes, a multiverse, a universe from nothing, sheer dumb luck, Uncaused Cause … to name but a few.
I agree with the part about all proposed solutions (even theistic ones) being mind-boggling. If someone with a God's-eye perspective who knew everything about the history of the universe were to sit me down and try to explain it all, I doubt that I could begin to comprehend it, although I don't know if I would use the word "miraculous".daveS
September 29, 2016
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All of reality is miraculous. A person who understands reality will never be able to say: "Is that all? I always expected the explanation to be something extraordinary". The probability for a down-to-earth unfantastic explanation for reality is exactly zero, since all proposed solutions—convincing or not—are mind-boggling: an infinite regress of causes, a multiverse, a universe from nothing, sheer dumb luck, Uncaused Cause ... to name but a few. I think it's very important that we all, theists and atheists alike, understand this unsettling fact. Things are astounding no matter what. There is no normalcy at all in ultimate explanations.
Unrecognized by atheists, however is that therein lies what I call the ubiquitous miracles of our existence. We don’t consider them miraculous because we take them so utterly for granted that we, for the most part, aren’t even consciously aware of these miracles. We’re blind to the miraculous because the nature of our very existence is miraculous.
Indeed, it is our sense of normalcy that is highly suspect.Origenes
September 29, 2016
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In the beginning. miracle Created the Heavens and Earth. miracle I like, in particular, "let there be light". All the energy, information, and perhaps other drivers. miracle It is almost as though the Earth was created for us. miracleRobert Toms
September 29, 2016
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"I’m not aware of a god blatantly intervening in the world, as some people say happens." Hmmm. I was just out on a river hunting with a friend. One day our outboard motor refused to start. Both my friend and I are rather mechanical, so we worked on the problem. We found that we could get the motor to start if we had lots of throttle on. In fact, it would run fast very well. However, it would immediately die when we tried to slow it to an idle. This was a particular problem because you had to slow it to an idle to shift from neutral to drive. Our mechanical sense cased us to conclude that the low speed jet in the carburetor was plugged. We decided to overhaul the carburetor in the field. However, we didn't have sufficient tools to remove the carb so that we could work on it. We were hooped. I said to my friend, "let me try something". I prayed a quick prayer asking Jesus to fix the motor, and I pulled the cord. Vrooom. First pull. And the problem was gone forever. I kinda agree with daveS. If my God didn't sometimes blatantly intervene in my world, I really doubt that I would be one of his followers.bFast
September 29, 2016
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