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The War is Over: We Won!

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Here is the abstract from a Nature Review: Genetics paper:

The recent increase in genomic data is revealing an unexpected perspective of gene loss as a pervasive source of genetic variation that can cause adaptive phenotypic diversity. This novel perspective of gene loss is raising new fundamental questions. How relevant has gene loss been in the divergence of phyla? How do genes change from being essential to dispensable and finally to being lost? Is gene loss mostly neutral, or can it be an effective way of adaptation? These questions are addressed, and insights are discussed from genomic studies of gene loss in populations and their relevance in evolutionary biology and biomedicine.

Many years ago, I predicted that modern genome sequencing would eventually prove one side of the argument to be right. This review article indicates that ID is the correct side of the argument. What they describe is essentially what ID scientist, Michael Behe, has termed the “First Principle of Adaptation.” (Which says that the organism will basicaly ‘break something’ or remove something in order to adapt) This paper ought to be the death-knell of Darwinism, and, of course, “neo-Darwinism,” but, even the authors who report this new “perspective” have not changed their Darwinian perspective. Somehow, they will find a way to tell us that the Darwinian ‘narrative’ always had room in it for this kind of discovery. As Max Planck said, and I paraphrase, “a theory does not prove itself right; it’s just that the scientists who opposed it eventually die.”

Here is basically the first page of the article (which is all I had access to):

Great attention has in the past been paid to the mechanisms of evolution by gene duplication (that is, neofunctionalization and subfunctionalization). By contrast, gene loss has often been associated with the loss of redundant gene duplicates without apparent functional consequences, and therefore this process has mostly been neglected as an evolutionary force. However, genomic data, which is accumulating as a result of recent technological and methodological advances, such as next-generation sequencing, is revealing a new perspective of gene loss as a pervasive source of genetic change that has great potential to cause adaptive phenotypic diversity.

Two main molecular mechanisms can lead to the loss of a gene from a given genome. First, the loss of a gene can be the consequence of an abrupt mutational event, such as an unequal crossing over during meiosis or the mobilization of a transposable or viral element that leads to the sudden physical removal of the gene from an organisms’ genome. Second, the loss of a gene can be the consequence of a slow process of accumulation of mutations during the pseudogenitzation that follows an initial loss-of-function mutation. This initial mutation can be caused by nonsense mutations that generate truncated proteins, insertions or deletions that cause a frameshift, missense mutations that affect crucial amino acid positions, changes involving splice sites that lead to aberrant transcripts or mutations in regulatory regions that abolish gene expression. In this Review, the term ‘gene loss’ is used in a broad sense, not only referring to the absence of a gene that is identified when different species are compared, but also to any allelic variant carrying a loss-of-function (that is, non-functionalization) mutation that is found within a population.

Here, we address some of the fundamental questions in evolutionary biology that have emerged from this novel perspective of evolution by gene loss. Examples from all life kingdoms are covered, from bacteria to fungi and from plants to animals, including key examples of gene loss in humans. We review how gene loss has affected the evolution of different phyla and address key questions, including how genes can become dispensable, how many of our current genes are actually dispensable, how patterns are biased, and whether the effects of gene loss are mostly neutral or whether gene loss can actually be an effective way of adaptation.

So, let’s translate what they’re saying here: “speciation” (their term is “phenotypic adaptation”) is the result of a LOSS of INFORMATION! This points, of course, to the “front-loading” of the LCA of the various branches of the so-called “Tree of Life.” Absolute bad news for Darwinism. We no longer say: “Another day; another bad day for Darwinism.” We now say: “Another day since the time Darwinism was disproved.”

This is what one of the authors has to say in an interview:

“The genome sequencing of very different organisms has shown that gene loss has been a usual phenomenon during evolution in all life cycles. In some cases, it has been proven that this loss might mean an adaptive response towards stressful situations when facing sudden environmental changes” says Professor Cristian Cañestro.

“In other cases, there are genetic losses –says Cañestro- which even though they are neutral per se, have contributed to the genetic and reproductive isolation among lineages, and thus, to speciation, or have rather participated in the sexual differentiation in contributing to the creation of a new Y chromosome. The fact that genetic loss patterns are not stochastic but rather biased in the lost genes[pav: IOW, this is where you’re going to find the genomic differences between species you compare] (depending on the kind of function of the gen or its situation in the genome in different organism groups) stresses the importance of the genetic loss in the evolution of the species.

There you have it: “evolution” through “gene loss.” I.e., “evolution” through “loss of information.” Evolution does not PRODUCE “information”; it DESTROYS “information”. You can read about in the book: “Genetic Entropy.”

In sum: the war is over, and we won! Congratulations everyone!

Comments
BA77:
Denying the law of biogenesis, i.e. that life always comes from life, is unscientific and is more of a ‘dead end’ than you can possibly imagine right now.
More accurately, physical annimate life has only ever been observed coming from other physical animate life containing similar genetic material. In that case, both a natural cause of the origin of life and a supernatural cause suffer from the same weakness.magna charta
June 26, 2016
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If we can just figure out how these teleological processes work we'll be able to rule out teleology!Mung
June 26, 2016
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Denying the law of biogenesis, i.e. that life always comes from life, is unscientific and is more of a 'dead end' than you can possibly imagine right now:
1. The Law of Biogenesis Spontaneous generation (the emergence of life from nonliving matter) has never been observed. All observations have shown that life comes only from life. This has been observed so consistently it is called the law of biogenesis. The theory of evolution conflicts with this scientific law when claiming that life came from nonliving matter through natural processes.a Evolutionary scientists reluctantly accept the law of biogenesis.b However, some say that future studies may show how life could come from lifeless matter, despite virtually impossible odds. Others are aware of just how complex life is and the many failed and foolish attempts to explain how life came from nonlife. They duck the question by claiming that their theory of evolution doesn’t begin until the first life somehow arose. Still others say the first life was created, then evolution occurred. All evolutionists recognize that, based on scientific observations, life comes only from life. 1 John 5:11-12 And this is that testimony: God has given us eternal life, and this life is in His Son. Whoever has the Son has life; whoever does not have the Son of God does not have life.
bornagain77
June 26, 2016
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No, I already mentioned above that distinct processes were involved, not aimless, mindless assembling as creationists always claim. If we can figure those processes out, we'll solve the problem. What's needed is the resolve and commitment, the hard work and dedication to probe the unknown. The creationist attitude of resigning to the easiest answer will take us nowhere. It's a dead end.Evolve
June 26, 2016
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Evolve @ 131:
Inanimate matter did not somehow mindlessly assemble into living things.
But according to the theory you support, it did exactly that. Why do you feel the need to deny that?Barry Arrington
June 26, 2016
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I'm rolling on the floor laughing seeing Pav's unilateral declaration of victory. What nonsense is that fellow blurting out? Gene gain and gene loss are all part of evolution, that's neither anything new nor beyond the capability of standard evolutionary processes. He talks about frontloading? Mammals evolved from reptiles, who evolved from amphibians, who in turn evolved from fish, which evolved from invertebrates. And there have been multiple events of gene gain and loss all throughout these transitions. Where exactly is the frontloading? His statements on de novo genes are nothing more than shifting goalposts. First he claims de novo genes spring out of nowhere hinting that his imaginary designer introduced them. Then when someone pointed out that de novo genes arise from noncoding DNA, he does the classic creationist trick of shifting goalposts. He then starts claiming de novo genes were "hidden" in the genome waiting for the right moment when the designer felt that they were needed. Pav's designer can have it anyways, he's ultra-flexible. That's because the deisgner is not only imaginary for which no evidence exists, but also one whose properties, capabilities, limitations and intentions are all unknown. Therefore creationists can spin any scenario to fit their designer! And no one can question it! By the way, here's a good recent review on de novo genes: http://www.cell.com/trends/genetics/pdf/S0168-9525(15)00034-7.pdf They arise when mutations in non-coding DNA introduce binding sites for transcription factors or remove stop codons or join short protogene products into a larger gene. None of these are beyond already known processes and, as such, does not require invoking a designer for explanation - except for creationists.Evolve
June 26, 2016
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The Origin of Life: An Inside Story - March 2016 Lecture with James Tour https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_zQXgJ-dXM4 Origin of Life: Professor James Tour – May 1, 2016 Excerpt: “All right, now let’s assemble the Dream Team. We’ve got good professors here, so let’s assemble the Dream Team. Let’s further assume that the world’s top 100 synthetic chemists, top 100 biochemists and top 100 evolutionary biologists combined forces into a limitlessly funded Dream Team. The Dream Team has all the carbohydrates, lipids, amino acids and nucleic acids stored in freezers in their laboratories… All of them are in 100% enantiomer purity. [Let’s] even give the team all the reagents they wish, the most advanced laboratories, and the analytical facilities, and complete scientific literature, and synthetic and natural non-living coupling agents. Mobilize the Dream Team to assemble the building blocks into a living system – nothing complex, just a single cell. The members scratch their heads and walk away, frustrated… So let’s help the Dream Team out by providing the polymerized forms: polypeptides, all the enzymes they desire, the polysaccharides, DNA and RNA in any sequence they desire, cleanly assembled. The level of sophistication in even the simplest of possible living cells is so chemically complex that we are even more clueless now than with anything discussed regarding prebiotic chemistry or macroevolution. The Dream Team will not know where to start. Moving all this off Earth does not solve the problem, because our physical laws are universal. You see the problem for the chemists? Welcome to my world. This is what I’m confronted with, every day.“ James Tour – leading Chemist https://uncommondescent.com/intelligent-design/origin-of-life-professor-james-tour-points-the-way-forward-for-intelligent-design/bornagain77
June 26, 2016
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////the notion that inanimate matter somehow mindlessly and accidentally assembled itself into self-replicating, digital information-based nanotechnology the functional complexity of which is light years beyond our own was simply batsh*t crazy.//// This statement only shows your ignorance and laziness. Inanimate matter did not somehow mindlessly assemble into living things. That happened via distinct processes and our challenge is to understand those processes. Instead, what you and your ilk are doing is to resign from the hard work and attribute everything to an imaginary designer for which absolutely no evidence exists. "I don't understand and I cannot imagine how something came about. Therefore God must have done it." <<< That's your position. But it doesn't work, I'm sorry.Evolve
June 26, 2016
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Harry, Bill I once thought that the general state of humanity is one of sanity interrupted by short flashes of delirium. Nowadays I hold the opposite view.Origenes
June 26, 2016
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Harry
And it also became clear to me that the notion that inanimate matter somehow mindlessly and accidentally assembled itself into self-replicating, digital information-based nanotechnology the functional complexity of which is light years beyond our own was simply batsh*t crazy.
Exactly, I would not be surprised if neo darwinian theory goes down in history as the worst scientific idea anyone has ever had.bill cole
June 24, 2016
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PaV @126
I’m opposed to Darwnism, not so much because of its anti-religious implications, but because it is simply bad science.
I once accepted theistic evolution, thinking that God's perfect providence might have arranged for natural selection acting on predestined variations or mutations could have resulted in life as we find it now. But after following the debate for years I ended up where you are: Darwinism is simply bad science. And it also became clear to me that the notion that inanimate matter somehow mindlessly and accidentally assembled itself into self-replicating, digital information-based nanotechnology the functional complexity of which is light years beyond our own was simply batsh*t crazy.harry
June 24, 2016
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PaV
I’m opposed to Darwnism, not so much because of its anti-religious implications, but because it is simply bad science.
I completely agree with you here. The problem is when this theory unwinds to causes that can be tested, what is left? Do we tell everyone we were just kidding there is no theory of evolution? The gap that has formed between real testable science and public perception is enormous.bill cole
June 24, 2016
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Bob: Genetic entropy, as it is presented by John Sanford, has more to do with degradation of information in general. That would be the general model. NS would be seen as part of the correction process. Fred Hoyle concluded as much. However, the kind of genetic entropy I'm referring to would involve speciation events associated with the continual loss of gene function, and even the loss of genes themselves. But this is more peripheral to the ID perspective. (More on that later.) Gene-centric Darwinism, OTOH, would see gradual gene gain. Any notion we have of gene loss/gain is glimpsed only through comparison of the whole genome of related organisms. That's essentially all we have to look at. Per "front-loading" in the "gene-centric" sense, the more basal organism would be the one which has the least amount of loss. That's about as much as you can say. However, the ID perspective has always understood 'genes' as simply the building blocks of organisms, with the blueprint of construction being located somewhere else in the genome---what has been, until now, called non-coding DNA, or, even, "junk-DNA," and representing the much more important and essential part of what an organism is. Thus, as techniques for faithful sequencing of the ncDNA improve, and they too become "annotated," then the blueprint of major taxonomic lineages should emerge as the ncDNA is better understood and begins to be correlated with taxonomic groupings. So, when ID talks about "front-loading," it's not the traditional notion of the gene, per se, that it has in mind. Take, for example, transposons. These little creatures move about in the cell with their powerful machinery. It is entirely possible that they involve, and then un-involve, various gene products as the organisms adapts to its environment. A recent paper has shown that inbred populations that have adopted to their environment show clusters of transposons that have built up. So, transposons, would be something more central to the ID perspective, with the interesting question becoming: what is directing the movement of these transposons. It's not the genes they activate that is of interest, but the actual genetic machinery at play: what's driving all of this. Yet, even here, this is something more tangential to the more essential view of ID. Our focus would be on the discovery and understanding of basic embryological developmental programs. These 'programs' would involve, very likely, ncDNA. Recent studies, e.g., have shown that "pseudo-genes" are very much involved with the development of the brain; what once was considered "junk-DNA", or ncDNA, seems to play an important role in developoment and speciation. Will this trend continue? Assuming it continues, ID predicts discontinuity of these eventually discovered ncDNA 'programs' between major lineages. NS, and mating, would correct the genetic entropy involved in these programs, and so we should find a high degree of conservation. These would be some basic expectations. Meanwhile, the importance of gene 'loss'--what we've been discussing here---is that it paints a picture of genomic inheritance showing growth in species via "information" loss. The 'build-up' of bau-plans for the major lineages then becomes very hard to support, and any discovered discontinuity of these plans would require invocation of some other effective agency. To me, that's where science will likely lead, a kind of 'end-point.' And then everyone will be free to understand it any way they like. But, neo-Darwinism will have be shown to have failed as an explanation. I'm opposed to Darwnism, not so much because of its anti-religious implications, but because it is simply bad science. Based on what I've seen so far, and especially within the last few years, I'm certainly ready to write its obituary. Perhaps I already have. Have a nice conference. Meanwhile, the work of many scientists in the lab leads us forward.PaV
June 24, 2016
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Hi Bob
PaV – yes, getting back to the original paper, how important is gene loss in evolution, as compared to (say) gene gain? I don’t think any evolutionary biologist would object to the idea that genes can be lost. But it could only rarely be important, or (speculatively) the function of the gene could have been taken over by another gene, in which case this doesn’t do much to support your case.
I made the cell phone analogy to demonstrate how unlikely adding information to a sequence is. It turns out that an op on our discussion was written at the skeptical zone. Sequences ( phone numbers, the english language, DNA, Proteins) are great for creating diversity but they break down with random change. Evolutionary biologists like Michael Lynch have tried to model adaptions mathematically and the results have been long times and large populations with adaptions requiring only a few changes. This is because the genome is a sequence.bill cole
June 24, 2016
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PaV - but if front-loaded genes are being degraded, how come they are still functional? Or are only some functional when they are needed? I don't see how you can have it both ways - genes laying around inactive, and genetic entropy happening, but then when these genes are needed, they are fully functional. I assume I'm missing something here, so it might help if you fleshed out your model more fully. Intuition is great, but it's only a starting point. (and having asked you to flesh out your theory, I have to apologise in advance if I don't reply after this evening - I'm off to Seattle for a conference).Bob O'H
June 24, 2016
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Bob O'H: Front-loaded genes are NOT prevented from becoming degraded. And "speciation" would be the result of this 'degradation.' You see why this fits in so well with the paper cited in the OP. This view---per Denton, a'one-time' front-loading brought about completely by the 'nature' of the natural order---requires that each of the major "explosions" of forms (including the mammalian explosion) a kind of infusion of information would take place. From there, information decreases, and species increase.PaV
June 24, 2016
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Bob: If one is willing to look at things intuitively, one will see that we're moving in the direction of greater and greater gene processing capacities. wd400 consistently takes the position that everything a cell does, it does because of what is contained in the genome. IOW, it's all coded in. But the problem with this position, of course, is that there are no intermediates between rocks and bacteria, nor between prokaryotes and eukaryotes. So, then, if all of this functioning is simply part and parcel of what cells do, then how did this process come about? Where did all the DNA genes and RNA genes come from? What gave rise to them? There are no answers to these questions. And then there's the Cambrian explosion. This is all ground we've covered before; but, it tells me that sooner, rather than later, biology will be forced, little-by-little, the more far-reaching theses of Darwinism. In fact, as we know, this process is now taking place with the MS being reevaluated. Intuition, seeing and penetrating the essence of realities more powerfully than simple logic, should suggest, even now, that Darwinism is a failed attempt at explaining biological origins. (Even plain and simple "adaptation" looks to be the work of the inner resources cells possess) The handwriting is on the wall, so to speak. I can't help but think of the time I was in a library and opened a reference book on the history of science. The most remarkable revelation was concerning the shift from the Ptolemaic view to that of Copernicus: the so-called "Copernican Revolution." Well, this "revolution" took right around 100 years. You have to admit, that was some kind of 'slow' revolution! I hope the shift away from Darwinism happens a little bit faster.PaV
June 24, 2016
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PaV - but genetic entropy degrades genetic information. So how are front-loaded genes prevented from being degraded?Bob O'H
June 24, 2016
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Bob O'H: Front-loading and genetic entropy are hand-and-glove. Unless there is "front-loading," the genome cannot afford entropy (loss of information).PaV
June 24, 2016
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PaV - yes, getting back to the original paper, how important is gene loss in evolution, as compared to (say) gene gain? I don't think any evolutionary biologist would object to the idea that genes can be lost. But it could only rarely be important, or (speculatively) the function of the gene could have been taken over by another gene, in which case this doesn't do much to support your case. So, you're going to have to do more before declaring victory. After all, you can't declare victory in a war just because you killed one of the enemy. Incidentally, as you've brought up front-loading, how does front-loading theory view genetic entropy?Bob O'H
June 23, 2016
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Just as an update, it really shouldn't be (at least for the time-being) a "we won"; it should be "James Shapiro's NGE" has won.PaV
June 23, 2016
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@Alicia #71 'let’s say take the number of things we have at least a partial explanation for in evolutionary biology, now take 1% of that, and that’s the number of things that if we had absolutely no explanation for or completely went against everything we know, then I would begin to question evolution.' '... at least a partial explanation...'? But that is like the children's game of pinning the tail on the donkey, isn't it ? Groping about in the dark, blindfolded, looking to establish coherence and intelligibility. You know, it just takes a single false assumption to end up in Bedlam, as the economist J M Keynes put it, in a review of one of Hayek's 'oeuvres'. However, when each fork in the road can lead closer and closer to the madhouse... it's really not good - no less in science than in theology or any other discipline.Axel
June 23, 2016
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Bob O'H: It is now common for articles to say that "de novo" genes come from non-coding DNA. This is simply a way of saying that it comes from DNA that is not annotated since translation of the DNA would produce amino acid products that would likely have been annotated by now. Having thought over the reality that "de novo" genes seem to come from NC DNA, coupled to the fact that scientists have a hard time wrapping their minds around how these "new" genes can be 'functional,' i.e., what happens that allows these new genes to incorporate themselves into the overall functioning of the cell/organism, it strikes me that the best explanation for this--and this comes from an ID perspective which looks at these types of dilemmas as an engineering type problem---would be that these "de novo" genes are simply 'genes' that have been stored away for future use; a kind of back-up 'drive' for the genome, and so, they have essential markings for insertion into existing cellular machinery, or, that transposons, e.g., provide the added needed machinery. The whole idea of "frame shifts," then, can possibly be viewed as a way of 'storing' this information in the DNA in a hidden manner: i.e., another layer of information storage. However, if we can, at long last, get back to the seminal paper in this discussion, then if "de novo" genes are nothing but 'un-hiding' 'hidden genes,' then the "information" is already there, and the machinery of the cell simply 'finds' it. But, 'gene loss' involves a complete loss of information in many cases, and, we're told, this leads to speciation. What is obvious here is that this is the complete opposite of the Darwinian/neo-Darwinian narrative. OTOH, this fits in quite nicely with the ID conception of "front-loading," a concept that has been talked about for twenty years. The war is over: we won!PaV
June 23, 2016
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rvb8 @ 110: "We do not accept the supernatural because we can’t test for that." Please describe how one would test the hypothesis that all that exists is natural. Doh! Barry Arrington
June 23, 2016
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as yo: "Please stop insulting scientists with teleological motives, they don’t have them, that’s your sphere." UMM no, they do have them regardless of whether they admit to them or not
Design Thinking Is Hardwired in the Human Brain. How Come? - October 17, 2012 Excerpt: "Even Professional Scientists Are Compelled to See Purpose in Nature, Psychologists Find." The article describes a test by Boston University's psychology department, in which researchers found that "despite years of scientific training, even professional chemists, geologists, and physicists from major universities such as Harvard, MIT, and Yale cannot escape a deep-seated belief that natural phenomena exist for a purpose" ,,, Most interesting, though, are the questions begged by this research. One is whether it is even possible to purge teleology from explanation. http://www.evolutionnews.org/2012/10/design_thinking065381.html
Of related note:
The 'Mental Cell': Let’s Loosen Up Biological Thinking! - Stephen L. Talbott - September 9, 2014 Excerpt: Many biologists are content to dismiss the problem with hand-waving: “When we wield the language of agency, we are speaking metaphorically, and we could just as well, if less conveniently, abandon the metaphors”. Yet no scientist or philosopher has shown how this shift of language could be effected. And the fact of the matter is just obvious: the biologist who is not investigating how the organism achieves something in a well-directed way is not yet doing biology, as opposed to physics or chemistry. Is this in turn just hand-waving? Let the reader inclined to think so take up a challenge: pose a single topic for biological research, doing so in language that avoids all implication of agency, cognition, and purposiveness1. One reason this cannot be done is clear enough: molecular biology — the discipline that was finally going to reduce life unreservedly to mindless mechanism — is now posing its own severe challenges. In this era of Big Data, the message from every side concerns previously unimagined complexity, incessant cross-talk and intertwining pathways, wildly unexpected genomic performances, dynamic conformational changes involving proteins and their cooperative or antagonistic binding partners, pervasive multifunctionality, intricately directed behavior somehow arising from the interaction of countless players in interpenetrating networks, and opposite effects by the same molecules in slightly different contexts. The picture at the molecular level begins to look as lively and organic — and thoughtful — as life itself. http://natureinstitute.org/txt/st/org/comm/ar/2014/mental_cell_23.htm The formal Darwinism project - June 2015 Excerpt: Today, as molecular biologists choose to call some of their discoveries ‘mechanisms’, and ascribe ‘functions’ to enzymes, they use purposive language and so they also adopt the design approach. It is arguably impossible to undertake work in many areas of biology without doing so: purpose in explanations has great power, and attempts to do without it in ethology,,, have long ago been abandoned as unworkable. of note: *Ethology is the scientific and objective study of animal behaviour https://scientiasalon.wordpress.com/2015/06/15/the-formal-darwinism-project/
This working biologist agrees:
Life, Purpose, Mind: Where the Machine Metaphor Fails - Ann Gauger - June 2011 Excerpt: I'm a working biologist, on bacterial regulation (transcription and translation and protein stability) through signalling molecules, ,,, I can confirm the following points as realities: we lack adequate conceptual categories for what we are seeing in the biological world; with many additional genomes sequenced annually, we have much more data than we know what to do with (and making sense of it has become the current challenge); cells are staggeringly chock full of sophisticated technologies, which are exquisitely integrated; life is not dominated by a single technology, but rather a composite of many; and yet life is more than the sum of its parts; in our work, we biologists use words that imply intentionality, functionality, strategy, and design in biology--we simply cannot avoid them. Furthermore, I suggest that to maintain that all of biology is solely a product of selection and genetic decay and time requires a metaphysical conviction that isn't troubled by the evidence. Alternatively, it could be the view of someone who is unfamiliar with the evidence, for one reason or another. But for those who will consider the evidence that is so obvious throughout biology, I suggest it's high time we moved on. - Matthew http://www.evolutionnews.org/2011/06/life_purpose_mind_where_the_ma046991.html#comment-8858161
as well:
Can Darwinian Evolutionary Theory Be Taken Seriously? - Stephen L. Talbott - May 16, 2016 Excerpt: it would have been hard to find even a slight blush of embarrassment when Stephen Jay Gould, countering the sort of doubt voiced above by his peers, asked, “Why was natural selection compared to a composer by Dobzhansky; to a poet by Simpson; to a sculptor by Mayr; and to, of all people, Mr. Shakespeare by Julian Huxley?” The answer, according to Gould, is that the allusions to poetry, musical composition, and sculpture helpfully underscore the “creativity of natural selection”:,,, And so it is possible for leading theorists of evolution to declare an abstract algorithm — natural selection — a capable artist, even though the only place where we observe an actual creative and artistic activity going on is in the organism itself. And even though the explanatory appeal to natural selection simply hides the fact, as we saw above, that the explanation assumes this very same creative activity in the organism. ,,, What we do have is a god-like power of natural selection whose miracle-working activity in creating ever-new organisms is vividly clear to eyes of faith, but frustratingly obscure to mere empirical investigators. This is not a science ready for submission to a larger public along with a demand for acquiescence. Not if this public has yet to dull its sensitivity to fundamental questions in the way that the research community seems to have done. http://natureinstitute.org/txt/st/org/comm/ar/2016/teleology_30.htm
bornagain77
June 23, 2016
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PaV - I don't think it's equivocation, more that most geneticists use 'de novo' and 'novel' in different ways to the way you are using them. But if you want references to the way novel genes (in your terminology) come about, read the papers I linked to @80. FWIW, the paper (I assume you mean the one cited in the OP) doesn't use de novo to reference gene origin, and the only relevant use of 'novel' is in a sentence about "novel ‘patchy’ orthologues that reveal previously hidden origins of ancestral gene families", so clearly it doesn't mean " that there is no connection to annotated sequences". For me, a 'novel' gene would (probably) mean one with a novel function. But YMMV, depending on context.Bob O'H
June 23, 2016
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rvb8, Do you actually read what people say or are you just a troll? Yes, I mentioned Ken Ham's name to give you context for where Bill Nye made the comments I was referring to. What's your point? I wasn't citing Ham for anything and wouldn't, since I'm not a YEC. As for teleology, there is nothing inherently religious in the word. You don't seem to have the slightest clue what you're talking about.
tel·e·ol·o·gy noun PHILOSOPHY the explanation of phenomena by the purpose they serve rather than by postulated causes.
People regularly offer teleological explanations for why things evolved, which is a practice that is in fundamental conflict with evolutionary theory. What don't you understand about this? And what is a 'casual believer' in evolution? Someone who accepts it because they've been told it's true but has never actually bothered to understand the theory, the evidence that is cited in its favor, or the evidence that is cited against it. Most people have a very poor understanding of any and all parts of the theory. They believe it because they were told it was true in school and they never really cared to question that one way or the other. Your comment is full of bluster and even more nonsense. You didn't bother to seriously address any of the things I actually said, so why are you bothering to direct comments to me? Go troll someone else.HeKS
June 22, 2016
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Yes, thank you bornagain77. You post a lot of great links. Incidentally, I made my "Darwexit" in college as a result of studying biochemical reactions. -QQuerius
June 22, 2016
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HeKS, “The thing is, in my experience, most casual believers in evolution ultimately think of evolution as a purposeful process." No! "You couldn't be more wrong", if you tried. Firstly we don't "believe" in evolution, we accept it, for the robust science it is. Secondly, how do you 'casually' believe something, I don't even 'casually' accept evolution, I rigorously accept it. Finally 'teleology' is a strictly religious dogma, it has no place in, inferred from the evidence, or observational science. The whole of this post by HeKS which slurs science with religious sentamentalism is quite outrageous. We do not accept the supernatural because we can't test for that. We do not accept a hiarchy of life because there is no evidence change has stopped, and we don't know what will come next. We do make predictions (Tiktalik etc) and we do observe and test. For years I have been reading this site, since your Waterloo, and I have yet to hear of any science comming out of Anne Gauger's lab. Please stop insulting scientists with teleological motives, they don't have them, that's your sphere. Heh:) You mentioed Ken Ham on a 'science' web site, good luck with that referrance to science:)rvb8
June 22, 2016
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Hello, bornagain77, Thank you for your posts. You routinely expose the mere sophistry at the core of the doctrines promulgated by the apostles of the Church of Darwin and demonstrate that what has been masquerading as science for so long is in actuality only irrational, blind-faith-based atheism.harry
June 22, 2016
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