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The War is Over: We Won!

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Here is the abstract from a Nature Review: Genetics paper:

The recent increase in genomic data is revealing an unexpected perspective of gene loss as a pervasive source of genetic variation that can cause adaptive phenotypic diversity. This novel perspective of gene loss is raising new fundamental questions. How relevant has gene loss been in the divergence of phyla? How do genes change from being essential to dispensable and finally to being lost? Is gene loss mostly neutral, or can it be an effective way of adaptation? These questions are addressed, and insights are discussed from genomic studies of gene loss in populations and their relevance in evolutionary biology and biomedicine.

Many years ago, I predicted that modern genome sequencing would eventually prove one side of the argument to be right. This review article indicates that ID is the correct side of the argument. What they describe is essentially what ID scientist, Michael Behe, has termed the “First Principle of Adaptation.” (Which says that the organism will basicaly ‘break something’ or remove something in order to adapt) This paper ought to be the death-knell of Darwinism, and, of course, “neo-Darwinism,” but, even the authors who report this new “perspective” have not changed their Darwinian perspective. Somehow, they will find a way to tell us that the Darwinian ‘narrative’ always had room in it for this kind of discovery. As Max Planck said, and I paraphrase, “a theory does not prove itself right; it’s just that the scientists who opposed it eventually die.”

Here is basically the first page of the article (which is all I had access to):

Great attention has in the past been paid to the mechanisms of evolution by gene duplication (that is, neofunctionalization and subfunctionalization). By contrast, gene loss has often been associated with the loss of redundant gene duplicates without apparent functional consequences, and therefore this process has mostly been neglected as an evolutionary force. However, genomic data, which is accumulating as a result of recent technological and methodological advances, such as next-generation sequencing, is revealing a new perspective of gene loss as a pervasive source of genetic change that has great potential to cause adaptive phenotypic diversity.

Two main molecular mechanisms can lead to the loss of a gene from a given genome. First, the loss of a gene can be the consequence of an abrupt mutational event, such as an unequal crossing over during meiosis or the mobilization of a transposable or viral element that leads to the sudden physical removal of the gene from an organisms’ genome. Second, the loss of a gene can be the consequence of a slow process of accumulation of mutations during the pseudogenitzation that follows an initial loss-of-function mutation. This initial mutation can be caused by nonsense mutations that generate truncated proteins, insertions or deletions that cause a frameshift, missense mutations that affect crucial amino acid positions, changes involving splice sites that lead to aberrant transcripts or mutations in regulatory regions that abolish gene expression. In this Review, the term ‘gene loss’ is used in a broad sense, not only referring to the absence of a gene that is identified when different species are compared, but also to any allelic variant carrying a loss-of-function (that is, non-functionalization) mutation that is found within a population.

Here, we address some of the fundamental questions in evolutionary biology that have emerged from this novel perspective of evolution by gene loss. Examples from all life kingdoms are covered, from bacteria to fungi and from plants to animals, including key examples of gene loss in humans. We review how gene loss has affected the evolution of different phyla and address key questions, including how genes can become dispensable, how many of our current genes are actually dispensable, how patterns are biased, and whether the effects of gene loss are mostly neutral or whether gene loss can actually be an effective way of adaptation.

So, let’s translate what they’re saying here: “speciation” (their term is “phenotypic adaptation”) is the result of a LOSS of INFORMATION! This points, of course, to the “front-loading” of the LCA of the various branches of the so-called “Tree of Life.” Absolute bad news for Darwinism. We no longer say: “Another day; another bad day for Darwinism.” We now say: “Another day since the time Darwinism was disproved.”

This is what one of the authors has to say in an interview:

“The genome sequencing of very different organisms has shown that gene loss has been a usual phenomenon during evolution in all life cycles. In some cases, it has been proven that this loss might mean an adaptive response towards stressful situations when facing sudden environmental changes” says Professor Cristian Cañestro.

“In other cases, there are genetic losses –says Cañestro- which even though they are neutral per se, have contributed to the genetic and reproductive isolation among lineages, and thus, to speciation, or have rather participated in the sexual differentiation in contributing to the creation of a new Y chromosome. The fact that genetic loss patterns are not stochastic but rather biased in the lost genes[pav: IOW, this is where you’re going to find the genomic differences between species you compare] (depending on the kind of function of the gen or its situation in the genome in different organism groups) stresses the importance of the genetic loss in the evolution of the species.

There you have it: “evolution” through “gene loss.” I.e., “evolution” through “loss of information.” Evolution does not PRODUCE “information”; it DESTROYS “information”. You can read about in the book: “Genetic Entropy.”

In sum: the war is over, and we won! Congratulations everyone!

Comments
"In the article I cited, they downplay the role of gene duplication." If they really did do that, it shouldn't surprise you, unless you have no experience in research, PaV. Of course the researchers are going to make their work sound like the best thing since sliced bread while downplaying everyone else's work. That's what most research groups do, only to different degrees. This site posts all the time about the current state of research, and for once you guys are actually right: it is, in part, a business.Alicia Cartelli
June 21, 2016
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Wow so information is gained by losing it according to the Darwinists commenting here. Are we seriously entertaining this nonsense?Andre
June 21, 2016
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JDD, Good quesiotn. I'd start with Sally Otto's article here Pav
In the article I cited, they downplay the role of gene duplication. I think that’s a good idea.
Where? They mention more focus has been placed on duplication that loss, but that's all. There is also quite a lot of discussion about the importance of duplication for gene loss (i.e. ancestral duplication followed by differential loss of daughter genes).wd400
June 21, 2016
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Bob O'H
bill cole @46 – Is your phone number a de novo gene? I suspect not.
Both a phone number and a gene are sequences. The english language is also a sequence. This is why Richard Dawkins used a line of Shakespeare to simulate a protein search. By trying to visualize how difficult this is you will better understand the arguments that you are dealing with.bill cole
June 21, 2016
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rvb8 @55: "living things like to reproduce, in many instances they even find the act fun. Having reproduced they next want to live. If the inherited traits of one living thing give it an advantage over another living thing, then that living thing will be more successful at sex" So why did sexual reproduction even evolve? What advantage does it offer? What advantage does needing 2 separate individuals to have sexual relations actually bring to the table? If evolution is about survival and most likely to reproduce then it should have stopped at bacteria. They are far better at it than any multicellular organism. Plus they can do it in all sorts of environments - hot, cold, high salt, low salt, oxide, anoxic....Dr JDD
June 21, 2016
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Bob O'H:
Pav @ 58 – I see you are still punting on whether gene duplication is more prevalent than gene loss. You’re also still punting on the proof that de novo genes can’t arise.
In the article I cited, they downplay the role of gene duplication. I think that's a good idea. As to "de novo" genes arising, the more critical question is how do "novel" genes arise, those that cannot be connected to other known sequences. How do you explain it, Bob?
Incidentally, I can’t use the information argument because I’ve never seen a definition of information from IDists that makes sense biologically. I’d rather not go round the “calculate the information for the flagellum” carousel again.
Who's punting here, actually? Entropy is connected to information. All of science accepts this. Entropy is all about degrees of freedom. And, any nucleotide sequence has 4 degrees of freedom at each site. Do the math. It's quite straightforward and easy. But, of course, if someone chooses to be willfully ignorant, no one can help them "see."
Oh, one thing:
PaV: So, when you find function for this putative “pseudogenes,” then it looks like you didn’t properly understand what you were looking at.
I agree – that’s the wonderful thing about science, we often don’t understand what we’re looking at, so we figure it out.
And, as EugeneS has already pointed out, when you "figure it out," you should be willing to live with the consequences. But, no, the 'Darwinian narrative' must conquer all. So, it's not falsifiable. Therefore, it is no longer a scientific theory, or even a postulate.PaV
June 21, 2016
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"yet humans have thousands of genetic variations across the population?" You fail to distinguish between non-random, i.e. 'directed', variation in humans and random mutations in humans. Directed mutations are non-Darwinian since they are not random (and since they still reduce overall information), and truly random mutations are overwhelmingly deleterious
Duality in the human genome - Nov. 28, 2014 Excerpt: The results show that most genes can occur in many different forms within a population: On average, about 250 different forms of each gene exist. The researchers found around four million different gene forms just in the 400 or so genomes they analysed. This figure is certain to increase as more human genomes are examined. More than 85 percent of all genes have no predominant form which occurs in more than half of all individuals. This enormous diversity means that over half of all genes in an individual, around 9,000 of 17,500, occur uniquely in that one person - and are therefore individual in the truest sense of the word. The gene, as we imagined it, exists only in exceptional cases. "We need to fundamentally rethink the view of genes that every schoolchild has learned since Gregor Mendel's time.,,, According to the researchers, mutations of genes are not randomly distributed between the parental chromosomes. They found that 60 percent of mutations affect the same chromosome set and 40 percent both sets. Scientists refer to these as cis and trans mutations, respectively. Evidently, an organism must have more cis mutations, where the second gene form remains intact. "It's amazing how precisely the 60:40 ratio is maintained. It occurs in the genome of every individual – almost like a magic formula," says Hoehe. http://medicalxpress.com/news/2014-11-duality-human-genome.html Human Mutation Clock Half Off - October 20, 2012 Excerpt: New studies have shown about 36 mutations between generations in Icelandic families. The rates seem to be converging on “1.2 × 10?8 mutations per generation at any given nucleotide site,” or “1 in 2.4 billion mutations per site per year,” which is less than half the previous estimate. http://crev.info/2012/10/human-mutation-clock-half-off/ Human evolution or extinction - discussion on acceptable mutation rate per generation (with clips from Dr. John Sanford) - video http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aC_NyFZG7pM "it would in the end be far easier and more sensible to manufacture a complete man de novo, out of appropriately chosen raw materials, than to try to fashion into human form those pitiful relics which remained… it is evident that the natural rate of mutation of man is so high, and his natural rate of reproduction so low, that not a great deal of margin is left for selection… it becomes perfectly evident that the present number of children per couple cannot be great enough to allow selection to keep pace with a mutation rate of 0.1..if, to make matters worse, u should be anything like as high as 0.5…, our present reproductive practices would be utterly out of line with human requirements." Hermann Muller quoted by John Sanford; Appendix 1, Genetic Entropy Human Genetic Variation Recent, Varies Among Populations - (Nov. 28, 2012) Excerpt: Nearly three-quarters of mutations in genes that code for proteins -- the workhorses of the cell -- occurred within the past 5,000 to 10,000 years,,, "One of the most interesting points is that Europeans have more new deleterious (potentially disease-causing) mutations than Africans,",,, "Having so many of these new variants can be partially explained by the population explosion in the European population. However, variation that occur in genes that are involved in Mendelian traits and in those that affect genes essential to the proper functioning of the cell tend to be much older." (A Mendelian trait is controlled by a single gene. Mutations in that gene can have devastating effects.) The amount variation or mutation identified in protein-coding genes (the exome) in this study is very different from what would have been seen 5,000 years ago,,, The report shows that "recent" events have a potent effect on the human genome. Eighty-six percent of the genetic variation or mutations that are expected to be harmful arose in European-Americans in the last five thousand years, said the researchers. The researchers used established bioinformatics techniques to calculate the age of more than a million changes in single base pairs (the A-T, C-G of the genetic code) that are part of the exome or protein-coding portion of the genomes (human genetic blueprint) of 6,515 people of both European-American and African-American decent.,,, http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2012/11/121128132259.htm
Also of note:
Multiple Overlapping Genetic Codes Profoundly Reduce the Probability of Beneficial Mutation George Montañez 1, Robert J. Marks II 2, Jorge Fernandez 3 and John C. Sanford 4 - May 2013 Excerpt: It is almost universally acknowledged that beneficial mutations are rare compared to deleterious mutations [1–10].,, It appears that beneficial mutations may be too rare to actually allow the accurate measurement of how rare they are [11]. 1. Kibota T, Lynch M (1996) Estimate of the genomic mutation rate deleterious to overall fitness in E. coli . Nature 381:694–696. 2. Charlesworth B, Charlesworth D (1998) Some evolutionary consequences of deleterious mutations. Genetica 103: 3–19. 3. Elena S, et al (1998) Distribution of fitness effects caused by random insertion mutations in Escherichia coli. Genetica 102/103: 349–358. 4. Gerrish P, Lenski R N (1998) The fate of competing beneficial mutations in an asexual population. Genetica 102/103:127–144. 5. Crow J (2000) The origins, patterns, and implications of human spontaneous mutation. Nature Reviews 1:40–47. 6. Bataillon T (2000) Estimation of spontaneous genome-wide mutation rate parameters: whither beneficial mutations? Heredity 84:497–501. 7. Imhof M, Schlotterer C (2001) Fitness effects of advantageous mutations in evolving Escherichia coli populations. Proc Natl Acad Sci USA 98:1113–1117. 8. Orr H (2003) The distribution of fitness effects among beneficial mutations. Genetics 163: 1519–1526. 9. Keightley P, Lynch M (2003) Toward a realistic model of mutations affecting fitness. Evolution 57:683–685. 10. Barrett R, et al (2006) The distribution of beneficial mutation effects under strong selection. Genetics 174:2071–2079. 11. Bataillon T (2000) Estimation of spontaneous genome-wide mutation rate parameters: whither beneficial mutations? Heredity 84:497–501. http://www.worldscientific.com/doi/pdf/10.1142/9789814508728_0006
bornagain77
June 21, 2016
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Bmaque, my “insertion” was that scientists have come up with a partial explanation for how de novo genes arise and a simple pubmed search will get you a few recent articles right at the top of the list, feel free to even go into the references of those papers if you want to learn more. So PaV, almost all mutations are deleterious, yet humans have thousands of genetic variations across the population? My point is that most mutations, though they may be slightly deleterious, are not immediately culled by natural selection. They can accumulate and contribute to evolution, like in thalassemia; what is deleterious in one environment, may be beneficial in another. “an average size protein cannot be made using random processes.” Good thing no one is claiming this. ENCODE’s results are very much up for debate, but I have no doubt that there is a good portion of unknown functionality in the genome. Depending on the perspective you take, organismal vs. evolutionary, you can get different amounts of function in the genome. I’m sure some evolutionary scientists somewhere at some point will even try to make the claim that because the genome is passed on to the next generation, the entire thing represents the potential for evolution and is therefore 100% functional. The scientific community is filled with people with slightly different ideas about each area of research, we feed off of controversy and constantly try to dispute each other, and yet we all seem to agree that evolution explains the diversity of species we see today. What will make me “stop believing in Darwin’s theory?” Well, first let’s put aside that it isn’t a “belief” and that it’s not even “Darwin’s theory” anymore. But what would it take? Hmm, let’s say take the number of things we have at least a partial explanation for in evolutionary biology, now take 1% of that, and that’s the number of things that if we had absolutely no explanation for or completely went against everything we know, then I would begin to question evolution.Alicia Cartelli
June 21, 2016
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Of related note:
Common Descent: An Obituary - Lee M. Spetner - June 21, 2016 Excerpt: Common Descent (CD) has been offered as a scientific theory and must therefore be judged as such. Its status as a scientific theory, however, has never been properly established. Without a theory showing that speciation is reasonably probable in the available time, all the circumstantial evidence proffered for CD by its advocates is for naught, and the evidence of proteins such as vitellogenin (the subject of some discussion here lately) is no more than circumstantial evidence. Circumstantial evidence can support a conclusion only when there is a theory to connect the evidence with the conclusion. By the beginning of the twentieth century, Charles Darwin's suggestion for the variation on which he meant for natural selection to act was rejected because it turned out to be nonheritable. In the first third of the 20th century several replacement suggestions for the variation were offered only to be later rejected. In 1941 a project was launched to establish the theory of evolution on a sound basis by bringing together facts and methods from all branches of science, and a decade later was considered fully established. The modern synthesis (MS) embraced natural selection and took the variation to be mutations and recombinations in the chromosomes, although exactly what these were was not clearly understood at the time. The discovery of the structure of the DNA in the mid 20th century was thought to solidify the MS. The random mutations were identified with random changes in the DNA sequence attributed to DNA-copying errors and genetic recombination. The variation was no longer a vague genetic effect that it had been: it was now an understood random process. With a known random mechanism now available for the variation on which natural selection could operate, the randomness became subject to mathematical investigation. Mutation rates could be measured and in principle the probability of an evolutionary event could be calculated. For the first time it became possible to check if Darwin's celebrated mechanism of random variation and natural selection could really account for CD. But the advocates of CD never picked up the challenge to publish any probability calculations. Some who questioned CD, however, did calculate and found the probabilities of speciation under random mutation and natural selection in the available time to be negligibly small and essentially zero. These results were never competently rebutted. The conclusion is inescapable that CD has no theoretical backing, has been refuted, and is not a valid scientific theory.,,, http://www.evolutionnews.org/2016/06/common_descent102937.html
bornagain77
June 21, 2016
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Pretty sure Behe called it "The First Rule of Adaptive Evolution" in his QRB paper.tragic mishap
June 21, 2016
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To reiterate, since Darwinian evolution is, in reality, a religion instead of a testable/falsifiable science, then there is no falsification that will ever be allowed to falsify Darwinian evolution within the minds of the Darwinian faithful. https://uncommondescent.com/intelligent-design/the-war-is-over-we-won/#comment-611045
Evolution, You’re Drunk (Go Home) - January 30. 2014 Excerpt: When asked whether de-evolution, a reversal from the complex to the simple, happens frequently, Dunn replies, sure. “But,” he adds, “I wouldn’t call that de-evolution, I’d call it evolution.” http://nautil.us/issue/9/time/evolution-youre-drunk
No matter how contrary a finding may be to Darwinian claims, the contrary finding is simply crammed into the Theory of evolution by the addition of ad hoc 'epicycles' that try to 'explain away' the contradictory finding.
Inquiry-Based Science Education -- on Everything but Evolution - Sarah Chaffee - January 22, 2016 Excerpt: As Thomas Kuhn wrote in The Structure of Scientific Revolutions, when faced with an anomaly, a theory's defenders "will devise numerous articulations and ad hoc modifications of their theory in order to eliminate any apparent conflict." http://www.evolutionnews.org/2016/01/inquiry-based_s102534.html
In fact, the only actual evidence ever witnessed for the unlimited plasticity of species predicted by Darwinian evolution has been within the theory itself. The theory is forever plastic, able to morph itself into whatever shape it needs to in order to avoid falsification by empirical observation!
Who would have thought that it would be biologists that came up with the first Theory of Everything? Biological divergence? Evolution. Biological convergence? Evolution. Gradual variation? Evolution. Sudden variation? Evolution. Stasis? Evolution. Junk DNA? Evolution. No Junk DNA? Evolution. Tree of life? Evolution. No tree of life? Evolution. Common genes? Evolution. Orfan genes? evolution. Cell with little more than a jelly-like protoplasm? Evolution. Cell filled with countless, highly-specified nano-machines directed by a software code? Evolution. More hardy, more procreative organisms? Evolution. Less hardy, less procreative organisms? Evolution. - Evolution explains everything. - William J Murray
Dr. Hunter puts the unfalsifiable situation with Darwinian evolution like this.
"Being an evolutionist means there is no bad news. If new species appear abruptly in the fossil record, that just means evolution operates in spurts. If species then persist for eons with little modification, that just means evolution takes long breaks. If clever mechanisms are discovered in biology, that just means evolution is smarter than we imagined. If strikingly similar designs are found in distant species, that just means evolution repeats itself. If significant differences are found in allied species, that just means evolution sometimes introduces new designs rapidly. If no likely mechanism can be found for the large-scale change evolution requires, that just means evolution is mysterious. If adaptation responds to environmental signals, that just means evolution has more foresight than was thought. If major predictions of evolution are found to be false, that just means evolution is more complex than we thought." ~ Cornelius Hunter "When their expectations turn out to be false, evolutionists respond by adding more epicycles to their theory that the species arose spontaneously from chance events. But that doesn’t mean the science has confirmed evolution as Velasco suggests. True, evolutionists have remained steadfast in their certainty, but that says more about evolutionists than about the empirical science." ~ Cornelius Hunter "With each new absurdity another new complicated just-so story is woven into evolutionary theory. As Lakatos explained, some theories simply are not falsifiable. But as a result they sacrifice realism and parsimony." - Cornelius Hunter - Here’s That Algae Study That Decouples Phylogeny and Competition - June 17, 2014
Dr. Hunter also has a site listing many of the fundamentally failed predictions of evolution:
Darwin's (failed) Predictions - Cornelius G. Hunter - 2015 This paper evaluates 23 fundamental (false) predictions of evolutionary theory from a wide range of different categories. The paper begins with a brief introduction to the nature of scientific predictions, and typical concerns evolutionists raise against investigating predictions of evolution. The paper next presents the individual predictions in seven categories: early evolution, evolutionary causes, molecular evolution, common descent, evolutionary phylogenies, evolutionary pathways, and behavior. Finally the conclusion summarizes these various predictions, their implications for evolution’s capacity to explain phenomena, and how they bear on evolutionist’s claims about their theory. *Introduction Why investigate evolution’s false predictions? Responses to common objections *Early evolution predictions The DNA code is not unique The cell’s fundamental molecules are universal *Evolutionary causes predictions Mutations are not adaptive Embryology and common descent Competition is greatest between neighbors *Molecular evolution predictions Protein evolution Histone proteins cannot tolerate much change The molecular clock keeps evolutionary time *Common descent predictions The pentadactyl pattern and common descent Serological tests reveal evolutionary relationships Biology is not lineage specific Similar species share similar genes MicroRNA *Evolutionary phylogenies predictions Genomic features are not sporadically distributed Gene and host phylogenies are congruent Gene phylogenies are congruent The species should form an evolutionary tree *Evolutionary pathways predictions Complex structures evolved from simpler structures Structures do not evolve before there is a need for them Functionally unconstrained DNA is not conserved Nature does not make leaps *Behavior Altruism Cell death *Conclusions What false predictions tell us about evolution https://sites.google.com/site/darwinspredictions/home Why investigate evolution’s false predictions? Excerpt: The predictions examined in this paper were selected according to several criteria. They cover a wide spectrum of evolutionary theory and are fundamental to the theory, reflecting major tenets of evolutionary thought. They were widely held by the consensus rather than reflecting one viewpoint of several competing viewpoints. Each prediction was a natural and fundamental expectation of the theory of evolution, and constituted mainstream evolutionary science. Furthermore, the selected predictions are not vague but rather are specific and can be objectively evaluated. They have been tested and evaluated and the outcome is not controversial or in question. And finally the predictions have implications for evolution’s (in)capacity to explain phenomena, as discussed in the conclusions. https://sites.google.com/site/darwinspredictions/why-investigate-evolution-s-false-predictions
The strength of a theory in science is in its predictive power. In fact, the predictions of General Relativity and Quantum Mechanics are tested to absurd levels of precision. Darwinian evolution is a joke in terms of its predictive power.
“On the other hand, I disagree that Darwin’s theory is as `solid as any explanation in science.; Disagree? I regard the claim as preposterous. Quantum electrodynamics is accurate to thirteen or so decimal places; so, too, general relativity. A leaf trembling in the wrong way would suffice to shatter either theory. What can Darwinian theory offer in comparison?” - Berlinski, D., “A Scientific Scandal?: David Berlinski & Critics,” Commentary, July 8, 2003
As mentioned previously, the reason why Darwinian evolution seemingly floats serenely above experimental reproach is that it has no falsification criteria.
“In so far as a scientific statement speaks about reality, it must be falsifiable; and in so far as it is not falsifiable, it does not speak about reality.” Karl Popper – The Two Fundamental Problems of the Theory of Knowledge (2014 edition), Routledge Darwinian Evolution is a Unfalsifiable Pseudo-Science – Mathematics – video https://www.facebook.com/philip.cunningham.73/videos/vb.100000088262100/1132659110080354/?type=2&theater
Yet, despite the pseudo-scientific nature of Darwinian evolution, and despite the unwillingness of Darwinists to accept any falsifying evidence against their theory, as far as empirical science itself is concerned, Darwinian evolution is falsified in its most foundational claim. Specifically, Darwinian evolution is empirically falsified in its foundational claim that RM & NS can generate functional complexity.
Michael Behe - Experimentally Observed (1 in 10^20) Edge of Evolution - video - Lecture delivered in April 2015 at Colorado School of Mines 25:56 minute quote - "This is not an argument anymore that Darwinism cannot make complex functional systems; it is an observation that it does not." https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9svV8wNUqvA
relevant Feynman quote:
The Scientific Method – Richard Feynman – video Quote: ‘If it disagrees with experiment, it’s wrong. In that simple statement is the key to science. It doesn’t make any difference how beautiful your guess is, it doesn’t matter how smart you are who made the guess, or what his name is… If it disagrees with experiment, it’s wrong. That’s all there is to it.” https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OL6-x0modwY
bornagain77
June 21, 2016
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Bob #66, "I agree – that’s the wonderful thing about science, we often don’t understand what we’re looking at, so we figure it out." Yes, sure. But acknowledging a falsified hypothesis and moving on is way different from pretending the hypothesis still holds and modifying it as if nothing happened.EugeneS
June 21, 2016
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bill cole @46 - Is your phone number a de novo gene? I suspect not. rbv8 @ 50 - bad news. I'm not sure this would fit under the rubric of any of the Nobel prizes. Literature, maybe. Pav @ 58 - I see you are still punting on whether gene duplication is more prevalent than gene loss. You're also still punting on the proof that de novo genes can't arise. Incidentally, I can't use the information argument because I've never seen a definition of information from IDists that makes sense biologically. I'd rather not go round the "calculate the information for the flagellum" carousel again. Oh, one thing:
So, when you find function for this putative “pseudogenes,” then it looks like you didn’t properly understand what you were looking at.
I agree - that's the wonderful thing about science, we often don't understand what we're looking at, so we figure it out.Bob O'H
June 21, 2016
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Saltation has never been documented in biology and my remarks concerning the gradualism of evolution remain. 'Punctuated equilibrium' is a theory within the theory of evolution put forward by Niles Eldredge and Stephen Jay Gould. It merely notes that 'stasis' is probably the normal order in evolution, punctuated by periods of increasing bio-diversity; Cambrian Explosion as one famous example. Large mutations in genes producing freakish off spring are almost always, or even always deadly to the individual organism. This is not 'saltation', which along with Ken Ham's absurd cladistic invention 'kinds', is never mentioned by serious scientists.rvb8
June 21, 2016
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rvb8, Since saltation, by definition, is a big and quick evolutionary change . . . Also look up punctuated equilibrium. Look up the definitions for theory, law, and fact. Toss in hypothesis for good measure. Are you sure you're not Spearshake? -QQuerius
June 21, 2016
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There was once a poster here in the early days who was called answersingenitals which I thought funny on many levels; sorry not Spearshake as I claim to be an expert in very little, and following the example of Socrates I am smart enough to know I know very little. However large mutations are almost always, if not always deadly to the individual organism, I don't need to be an expert to know this. And evolution is most certainly the science of gradualism by definition; why is this a silly statement?rvb8
June 20, 2016
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rvb8,
Big and quick change at the level of saltation has always been accepted as harmful to life.
The LAWs that prove the THEORY, thus making the THEORY fact
LOL! C'mon you're Spearshake or one of his sock puppets, right? You know---the guy who claimed he was an "expert" in statistics? Please say yes. -QQuerius
June 20, 2016
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PaV,
Did I say they were “deleterious,” or did I say they were “deadly”? Your strawman argument will get you nowhere.
Actually, both words start with the letters "de" and can easily be confused. Beside deleterious sounds much more serious. That explains why Alicia asked the question
So humans all have identical genomes?
on the assumption that deleterious means deadly. Or is it delirious? Delicious? Desirous? Anyway, one of those long words. :-) Make sense now? -QQuerius
June 20, 2016
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"Almost all mutations are deleterious?" I agree, but whether I agree or not is pretty unimportant, the facts are much more important. Large and random mutations in the genotype, producing new and radically altered offspring, and that this saltation is ruinous to the individual, is the accepted position in evolutionary science. Big and quick change at the level of saltation has always been accepted as harmful to life. Why would you think this in any way undermines evolution, which is nothing, if not a fan of gradualism?rvb8
June 20, 2016
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wd400:
So.. what’s the argument here? At the moment it reads like 1. Gene loss can be adaptive 2 … 3. also de novo genes are common and mutations are bad 4 …. 5 Victory
Information, my dear wd400, information. Where does it come from? How does it arise?PaV
June 20, 2016
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Bob O'H:
PaV @ 22 – I see you don’t rise to the challenge of asking whether gene duplication is more prevalent than gene loss.
Does gene duplication increase the information content of the genome? Does gene loss? When will you recognize that that's the way to argue with someone who holds the ID position? Will the mechanism of duplication and subsequent degradation help? Can it bring about a "novel" gene? Answer: No.
I’m wondering what this probabalistic proof is that de novo gene can’t evolve.
Nucleotides are chemically interchangeable. Chemistry can't explain the entirely "new" sequence of a "novel" gene. Random mechanisms can't do this either. That leaves intelligent agency. Simple as that. And logically compelling.
I also don’t see ENCODE as a problem – the consensus is that they were being overly optimistic about function.
The consensus now. And then when that consensus is completely undermined by evidence, the "new consensus" will be that you knew this all along, and that this isn't anything new at all.
I also don’t see why pseudo-genes having a regulatory function is a problem: evolution is messy, and whatever works will work.
They were called "pseudogenes" because they didn't have function. So, when you find function for this putative "pseudogenes," then it looks like you didn't properly understand what you were looking at.
Epigenetic is just (!) the mechanism by which the environment affects gene expression, but we knew is did already – “G by E” isn’t controversial.
This is not a very forthright answer. Of course everyone knew that the environment affected the genome: but not to the degree that it does. But what really makes your answer devious is the fact that you know that it is now known that epigenetics can have long-term inheritable effects. This is new; and a game-changer. Who are you trying to fool? Those looking in on this discussion?
So, you can declare victory. If anyone notices, they’ll just shrug.
Well, of course, Darwinists will shrug. They always do. No matter what evidence is discovered undermining the strange thinking they hold, they just shrug, invent some new amendment to their on-going narrative, and move on. But your days are numbered. Why? Genome sequencing. Darwinism, and neo-Darwinism, will never stand up to this test. ID, OTOH, will be vindicated. It'll just take a number of prominent evolutionary biologists to enter the pearly gates.PaV
June 20, 2016
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Alicia C:
Almost all mutations are deleterious?
Yes. They've known this since the 60's. Maybe you can read up on it.
So humans all have identical genomes?
I have no idea what you're talking about. Please clarify.
How have scientists been altering the genome of organisms and cells for years without them all immediately dying?
Did I say they were "deleterious," or did I say they were "deadly"? Your strawman argument will get you nowhere. BTW, I have thalassemia.
“de novo genes, which, probabilistically, cannot be explained” What about the explanations we already have for de novo genes? Are we ignoring those?
But Darwinists have explanations for all kinds of things. But are they plausible? In the really important cases, usually not. A portion of de novo genes are "novel" genes, and of considerable length. They are termed "novel" because they don't match up with any annotated genes. How did these genes arise? What was the mechanism? To put together a new protein of average length requires an improbability of more than 1 in 4^900, roughly, just to give a ball park figure. This is simply another way of saying that an average size protein cannot be made using random processes. It's simply impossible. Everyone know this. But if you want to deceive yourself badly enough, you can believe the impossible happens.
Please, you think encode is going to find function in the entire genome? They won’t even come close. And what happens when they find that some of these functions are important for evolution, and not necessarily the individual organism? Are you guys going to count those?
They found some kind of function for what, 82% of the genome. And, they said that this percentage would rise. Why? Because some portions of the genome are expressed only for short periods of time during development, and, through improving their assaying techniques, they hope to confirm functions for those segments that, once development has ended, no longer function. So, it's worse than you think. Ask yourself this question Alicia: what will make me stop believing in Darwin's theory? What does the answer to this question look like exactly?PaV
June 20, 2016
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So the law of 'having fun' by 'wanting to reproduce' and the law of 'wanting to live' form the basis of evolution in science? :) Can you show me exactly where those constants/laws of 'having fun' by reproducing and 'wanting to live' are in the NIST table? :)
NIST Reference - Constants http://physics.nist.gov/cuu/Constants/index.html
To repeat, there is no natural 'law of evolution' within physical science:
The Evolution of Ernst: Interview with Ernst Mayr - 2004 Excerpt: biology (Darwinian Evolution) differs from the physical sciences in that in the physical sciences, all theories, I don't know exceptions so I think it's probably a safe statement, all theories are based somehow or other on natural laws. In biology, as several other people have shown, and I totally agree with them, there are no natural laws in biology corresponding to the natural laws of the physical sciences.,,, in this book. I show that the theoretical basis, you might call it, or I prefer to call it the philosophy of biology, has a totally different basis than the theories of physics. http://www.scientificamerican.com/article/the-evolution-of-ernst-in/ WHAT SCIENTIFIC IDEA IS READY FOR RETIREMENT? Evolution is True - Roger Highfield - January 2014 Excerpt:,,, Whatever the case, those universal truths—'laws'—that physicists and chemists all rely upon appear relatively absent from biology. Little seems to have changed from a decade ago when the late and great John Maynard Smith wrote a chapter on evolutionary game theory for a book on the most powerful equations of science: his contribution did not include a single equation. http://www.edge.org/response-detail/25468
Moreover, the mechanism of random mutation that Darwinists imagine to be the ultimate creator of all life on earth is actually the primary reason why all living things eventually grow old and die:
Entropy Explains Aging, Genetic Determinism Explains Longevity, and Undefined Terminology Explains Misunderstanding Both - 2007 Excerpt: There is a huge body of knowledge supporting the belief that age changes are characterized by increasing entropy, which results in the random loss of molecular fidelity, and accumulates to slowly overwhelm maintenance systems [1–4].,,, http://www.plosgenetics.org/article/info%3Adoi/10.1371/journal.pgen.0030220
And no, natural selection does not help:
Can Purifying Natural Selection Preserve Biological Information? Excerpt: Across all reasonable parameters settings, we observed that high impact mutations were selected away with very high efficiency, while very low impact mutations accumulated just as if there was no selection operating http://www.worldscientific.com/doi/pdf/10.1142/9789814508728_0010 Genetic Entropy – peer reviewed references http://www.geneticentropy.org/#!properties/ctzx/9789814508728_0013
bornagain77
June 20, 2016
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Heh:) "that gibberish", is from 'The Origin of Species‘ you may have heard of it? Try reading it slowly. It actually makes a lot of sense, try this: living things like to reproduce, in many instances they even find the act fun. Having reproduced they next want to live. If the inherited traits of one living thing give it an advantage over another living thing, then that living thing will be more successful in sex. Honestly, I don'tknow how to dumb down Darwin's "gibberish" (Heh:)) any more.rvb8
June 20, 2016
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What is that gibberish you wrote? Are you drunk? Moreover, Wolfgang Pauli was certainly no friend of 'very irrational' evolutionists:
"In discussions with biologists I met large difficulties when they apply the concept of 'natural selection' in a rather wide field, without being able to estimate the probability of the occurrence in a empirically given time of just those events, which have been important for the biological evolution. Treating the empirical time scale of the evolution theoretically as infinity they have then an easy game, apparently to avoid the concept of purposesiveness. While they pretend to stay in this way completely 'scientific' and 'rational,' they become actually very irrational, particularly because they use the word 'chance', not any longer combined with estimations of a mathematically defined probability, in its application to very rare single events more or less synonymous with the old word 'miracle.'" Wolfgang Pauli (pp. 27-28) - Letter by Pauli to Bohr of February 15, 1955
bornagain77
June 20, 2016
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The LAWs that prove the THEORY, thus making the THEORY fact: "These laws,taken in the largest sense, being Growth with Reproduction; (I think living things follow these LAWs. rvb8) Variability from the indirect and direct action of the external conditions of life, and from use and disuse; (Another law. rvb8)a Ratio of Increase so high as to lead to a Struggle for Life, and as a consequence to Natural Selection, entailing Divergence of Character and the Extinction of less-improved forms." (so many LAWs here; desire for sex-more off spring-competition-success-more sex etc etc) I'm sorry BA77 but your constant twittering on a subject already confirmed, and the absurd title of this piece are embarassments for your position, which, to quote Wolfgang Pauli is, 'not even wrong'.rvb8
June 20, 2016
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rvb8, since Darwinian evolution is. in reality, a religion instead of a testable/falsifiable science, then there is no falsification that will ever be allowed to falsify Darwinian evolution in the minds of the faithful. Theodosius Dobzhansky, whom you mentioned favorably, proves as much:
Nothing in biology makes sense except in light of theology? - Dilley S. - 2013 Abstract This essay analyzes Theodosius Dobzhansky's famous article, "Nothing in Biology Makes Sense Except in the Light of Evolution," in which he presents some of his best arguments for evolution. I contend that all of Dobzhansky's arguments hinge upon sectarian claims about God's nature, actions, purposes, or duties. Moreover, Dobzhansky's theology manifests several tensions, both in the epistemic justification of his theological claims and in their collective coherence. I note that other prominent biologists--such as Mayr, Dawkins, Eldredge, Ayala, de Beer, Futuyma, and Gould--also use theology-laden arguments. I recommend increased analysis of the justification, complexity, and coherence of this theology. http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/23890740 Methodological Naturalism: A Rule That No One Needs or Obeys - Paul Nelson - September 22, 2014 Excerpt:,,,with respect to one of the most famous texts in 20th-century biology, Theodosius Dobzhansky's essay "Nothing in biology makes sense except in the light of evolution" (1973). Although its title is widely cited as an aphorism, the text of Dobzhansky's essay is rarely read. It is, in fact, a theological treatise. As Dilley (2013, p. 774) observes: "Strikingly, all seven of Dobzhansky's arguments hinge upon claims about God's nature, actions, purposes, or duties. In fact, without God-talk, the geneticist's arguments for evolution are logically invalid. In short, theology is essential to Dobzhansky's arguments.",, http://www.evolutionnews.org/2014/09/methodological_1089971.html
If you disagree with the fact that Darwinian evolution is a pseudo-scientific religion, instead of a testable/falsifiable science, then please present the exact falsification criteria that will allow an experimentalist to test its claims.
"In so far as a scientific statement speaks about reality, it must be falsifiable; and in so far as it is not falsifiable, it does not speak about reality." Karl Popper - The Two Fundamental Problems of the Theory of Knowledge (2014 edition), Routledge Dubitable Darwin? Why Some Smart, Nonreligious People Doubt the Theory of Evolution By John Horgan on July 6, 2010 Excerpt: Early in his career, the philosopher Karl Popper ,, called evolution via natural selection "almost a tautology" and "not a testable scientific theory but a metaphysical research program." Attacked for these criticisms, Popper took them back (in approx 1978). But when I interviewed him in 1992, he blurted out that he still found Darwin's theory dissatisfying. "One ought to look for alternatives!" Popper exclaimed, banging his kitchen table. http://blogs.scientificamerican.com/cross-check/dubitable-darwin-why-some-smart-nonreligious-people-doubt-the-theory-of-evolution/ Darwinian Evolution is a Unfalsifiable Pseudo-Science - Mathematics – video https://www.facebook.com/philip.cunningham.73/videos/vb.100000088262100/1132659110080354/?type=2&theater It’s (Much) Easier to Falsify Intelligent Design than Darwinian Evolution – Michael Behe, PhD https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_T1v_VLueGk “It is our contention that if ‘random’ is given a serious and crucial interpretation from a probabilistic point of view, the randomness postulate is highly implausible and that an adequate scientific theory of evolution must await the discovery and elucidation of new natural laws—physical, physico-chemical, and biological.” Murray Eden, “Inadequacies of Neo-Darwinian Evolution as a Scientific Theory,” Mathematical Challenges to the Neo-Darwinian Interpretation of Evolution, editors Paul S. Moorhead and Martin M. Kaplan, June 1967, p. 109.
In fact, not only is Evolution not based on any known universal law, as other overarching theories of science are based upon known universal laws, (including ID being based upon the 'law of conservation of information'), Entropy, a law with great explanatory power in science, almost directly contradicts Darwinian claims that increases in functional complexity and/or information can be easily had,,,
“Gain in entropy always means loss of information, and nothing more.” Gilbert Newton Lewis – preeminent Chemist of the first half of last century Why Tornados Running Backward do not Violate the Second Law - Granville Sewell - May 2012 - article with video Excerpt: So, how does the spontaneous rearrangement of matter on a rocky, barren, planet into human brains and spaceships and jet airplanes and nuclear power plants and libraries full of science texts and novels, and supercomputers running partial differential equation solving software , represent a less obvious or less spectacular violation of the second law—or at least of the fundamental natural principle behind this law—than tornados turning rubble into houses and cars? Can anyone even imagine a more spectacular violation? https://uncommondescent.com/intelligent-design/why-tornados-running-backward-do-not-violate-the-second-law/
So rvb8 how exactly is one suppose to overturn a 'scientific' theory that doesn't even a qualify as a testable scientific theory in the first place? Evidence is useless against such a ill-begotten contraption that is called Darwinian evolution!bornagain77
June 20, 2016
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Bornagain77,
Mutation total (as of May 23, 2016) – 183,500
This data is child's play for any Darwinist to accommodate! It simply demonstrates how long humans have been evolving, since more evolved species obviously accumulate more mutations between Massive Evolutionary Upswings. ;-) -QQuerius
June 20, 2016
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After rereading all the posts and PaV's article again, and having visited several websites (Harvard, BBC, Wikipedia, Encyclopedia Britannica, Cambridge, Science Daily, Nature, etc), I have to conclude that PaV and bornagain77 have actually done it; they have successfully refuted and confounded Evolutionary Biology. In a mere 700 words or so, s/he has overturned what Theodosius Dobzhansky explained as the unifying theory of life. Well done! Tell us about your Stockholm travel arrangements so that we can share in your success.rvb8
June 20, 2016
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Remember John Sanford and Genetic Entropy. - "over 90% of the genome is actively transcribed" "the genome has multiple overlapping messages" "data compression on the most sophisticated level" "more and more the genome looks like a super super set of programs" "more and more it looks like top down design" "the reality is everybody is mutant" "the selection process really has nothing to grab hold of" "so it's kind of a trade secret amongst population geneticists,any well informed population geneticist understands man is degenerating" "so in deep geological time we should have been extinct a long time ago" "the human race is degenerating at 1-5% per generation" http://idvolution.blogspot.com/2011/12/dr-john-sanford-genetic-entropy-and.htmlbuffalo
June 20, 2016
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