Uncommon Descent Serving The Intelligent Design Community

They claimed to be wise


Extracted from the UK Telegraph comes the faith creed of modern scientism.

Evolution by natural selection, and all the other processes that produced our planet and the life on it, are sufficient to explain how we got to be the way we are, given the laws of physics that operate in our universe. However, there is still scope for an intelligent designer of universes as a whole. The designer may have been responsible for the Big Bang, but nothing more. A very advanced civilisation would have the ability to set precise parameters, thereby designing the universe in detail. It would not be possible – even at the most advanced level – for the designers to interfere with baby universes once they had formed. From the moment of its own Big Bang, each universe would be on its own.”

CannuckianYankee, I checked that site out. I have to say, I think there was more intelligent, thoughtful, reasoned, truthful dialog on the Disney site. At least they admit they are selling a product. Winston Macchi
BA, "Proof That God Exists – easy to use interactive website" http://www.proofthatgodexists.org/index.php Great website. If you click on the buttons claiming that there is no absolute truth, a button appears saying "Thanks for visiting," which when clicked on, takes you to Disney's website. IOW, "you're in fantasy land." :) CannuckianYankee
God is dead
Nietzsche 1882
Nietzsche is dead.
God 1900 DLH
Keep in mind the writer of the article is, for all purposes, an ID proponent. From what I recall, he really does embrace the idea that our universe (and possibly quite a lot in it) was designed - just it was done so by "an advanced civilization". nullasalus
"However, to create a new universe would require a machine only slightly more powerful than the LHC..." Interesting... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xMqHJrdXj0s tragic mishap
This is humorous: Hawking Not Needed to Explain His New Book, Says Universe http://www.evolutionnews.org/2010/09/hawking_not_needed_to_explain037911.html bornagain77
one more note: In conjunction with the mathematical, and logical, necessity of an 'Uncaused Cause' to explain the beginning of the universe, in philosophy it has been shown that,,, "The 'First Mover' is necessary for change occurring at each moment." Michael Egnor - Aquinas’ First Way http://www.evolutionnews.org/2009/09/jerry_coyne_and_aquinas_first.html I find this centuries old philosophical argument, for the necessity of a 'First Mover' accounting for change occurring at each moment, to be validated by quantum mechanics. This is since the possibility for the universe to be considered a self-sustaining 'closed loop' of cause and effect is removed with the refutation of the 'hidden variable' argument in entanglement experiments. As well, there also must be a sufficient transcendent cause (God/First Mover) to explain quantum wave collapse for 'each moment' of the universe. This following video is very good for pointing out some of the unanswerable dilemmas that quantum mechanics presents to the atheistic philosophy of materialism: Dr. Quantum - Double Slit Experiment & Entanglement - video http://www.metacafe.com/watch/4096579/ bornagain77
The crushing thing that argues forcefully against this 'anthro-deistic' conjecture is when he states this:
The designer may have been responsible for the Big Bang, but nothing more. "A very advanced civilisation would have the ability to set precise parameters, thereby designing the universe in detail.
Yet the parameters (universal transcendent constants) are not initial conditions that are only imposed at the outset of the universe, they are imposed on a continuous basis throughout the universe's history, especially imposed on the present moment regardless of how the universe's particles are 'evolving',,, Wheeler's Classic Delayed Choice Experiment: Excerpt: So it seems that time has nothing to do with effects of quantum mechanics. And, indeed, the original thought experiment was not based on any analysis of how particles evolve and behave over time – it was based on the mathematics. This is what the mathematics predicted for a result, and this is exactly the result obtained in the laboratory. http://www.bottomlayer.com/bottom/basic_delayed_choice.htm This 'highly advanced civilization" (intelligence) he is trying to access in a deistic 'one off' manner, must in fact inhabit a higher dimension which is not constrained by time and space, in so far to pull off the 'magic' of defying time and space.... Most people consider defying time and space to be supernatural and 'miraculous' events. I know I certainly do. Then why does this blatant 'supernatural' way in which this universe's particles are governed, on a continual basis at its most foundational level, escape these 'wise' men's notice? further notes: In summary, logic necessarily exists, it is non-natural, and it is informative hence it is of a mind that has necessary existence and is non-natural (and the steal a phrase from Aquinas) this is what we mean by God. - David Howard http://www.facebook.com/home.php?#!/profile.php?id=1120964493&v=wall&story_fbid=145367938836241&ref=notif&notif_t=feed_comment_reply This following site is a easy to use, and understand, interactive website that takes the user through what is termed 'Presuppositional apologetics'. The website clearly shows that our use of the laws of logic, mathematics, science and morality cannot be accounted for unless we believe in a God who guarantees our perceptions and reasoning are trustworthy in the first place. Proof That God Exists - easy to use interactive website http://www.proofthatgodexists.org/index.php Mathematics is the language with which God has written the universe. Galileo Galilei What is Truth? http://docs.google.com/Doc?id=dc8z67wz_3g3vnsmcn "The laws of relativity have changed timeless existence from a theological claim to a physical reality. Light, you see, is outside of time, a fact of nature proven in thousands of experiments at hundreds of universities. I don’t pretend to know how tomorrow can exist simultaneously with today and yesterday. But at the speed of light they actually and rigorously do. Time does not pass." – Richard Swenson etc.. etc.. bornagain77

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