UD Announces General Amnesty

_{Barry Arrington
October 21, 2014

Intelligent Design

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Intelligent Design}

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Today UD editors completely deleted both their “banned” list and their “comment moderation” list. Anyone in the world with access to the internet is currently free to comment on the site.

I (i.e., Barry Arrington) am almost certainly going to regret this decision and sooner rather than later. There were hundreds of trolls trapped in the “banned” and “moderation” queues. Frankly, images of this scene from Ghostbusters went through my mind as a pressed the “release” button.

Let’s hope it does not come to that.

Comments

By the way, the Hebrew scriptures have no concept of "hell" in the sense of a fire and brimstone kind of place "where the wicked are burning but never consumed." These ideas were imported from Babylon and Persia because of the Jewish captivity. The apocalyptics of the inter-testamental period adopted these ideas and they eventually made it into the Christianity, one of several apocalyptic religions to come out of the period.Vishnu_{October 22, 2014
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Why would a loving creator keep anyone around for eternity in a place of torment? Why not just destroy their consciousness and be done with it? BTW, NDEs are evidence of nothing when it comes to answering this question, given that it's a near death experience nor a death experience. The people aren't actually dead. Or else they wouldn't "come back" and relate stories. Personally, I think they are vivid dreams like lucid dreams, and can have components of transpersonal or "spiritual" elements. (I have experienced these myself.) But I do not think anyone is actually dead when they have these experiences.Vishnu_{October 22, 2014
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And if king David could be forgiven for murder and adultery, so can people like Charles Manson, Hitler and Stalin be forgiven for whatever they did.Mapou_{October 22, 2014
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The concept of eternal suffering and damnation in hell is the work of the devil, IMO.Mapou_{October 22, 2014
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box as a footnote, Near Death Experiences from eastern cultures that believe in reincarnation are the worst NDE's for an overall culture that I've found: Near-Death Experiences in Thailand – Todd Murphy: Excerpt:The Light seems to be absent in Thai NDEs. So is the profound positive affect found in so many Western NDEs. The most common affect in our collection is negative. Unlike the negative affect in so many Western NDEs (cf. Greyson & Bush, 1992), that found in Thai NDEs (in all but case #11) has two recognizable causes. The first is fear of ‘going’. The second is horror and fear of hell. It is worth noting that although half of our collection include seeing hell (cases 2,6,7,9,10) and being forced to witness horrific tortures, not one includes the NDEer having been subjected to these torments themselves. http://www.shaktitechnology.com/thaindes.htm Near Death Experience Thailand Asia – video http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y8M5J3zWG5g A Comparative view of Tibetan and Western Near-Death Experiences by Lawrence Epstein University of Washington: Excerpt: Episode 5: The OBE systematically stresses the 'das-log's discomfiture, pain, disappointment, anger and disillusionment with others and with the moral worth of the world at large. The acquisition of a yid-lus and the ability to travel instantaneously are also found here. Episode 6: The 'das-log, usually accompanied by a supernatural guide, tours bar-do, where he witnesses painful scenes and meets others known to him. They give him messages to take back. Episode 7: The 'das-log witnesses trials in and tours hell. The crimes and punishments of others are explained to him. Tortured souls also ask him to take back messages to the living. http://www.case.edu/affil/tibet/booksAndPapers/neardeath.html?nw_view=1281960224&amp India Cross-cultural study by Dr. Ian Stevenson of the University of Virginia Medical School and Dr. Satwant Pasricha of the Institute of Mental Health and Neurosciences in Bangalore, India Excerpt: "Suddenly I saw two big pots of boiling water, although there was no fire, no firewood, and no fireplace. Then, the man pushed me with his hand and said, "You'd better hurry up and go back." When he touched me, I suddenly became aware of how hot his hand was. Then I realised why the pots were boiling. The heat was coming from his hands! When I regained consciousness, I had a severe burning sensation in my left arm." Mangal still had a mark on his left arm that he claims was a result of the burning. About a quarter of Dr Pasricha's interviewees reported such marks. http://www.rediff.com/news/1999/apr/06pas.htm Near-Death Experiences of Hindus Pasricha and Stevenson's research Except: "Two persons caught me and took me with them. I felt tired after walking some distance; they started to drag me. My feet became useless. There was a man sitting up. He looked dreadful and was all black. He was not wearing any clothes. He said in a rage [to the attendants who had brought Vasudev] "I had asked you to bring Vasudev the gardener.,,, In reply to questions about details, Vasudev said that the "black man" had a club and used foul language. Vasudev identified him as Yamraj, the Hindu god of the dead. http://www.near-death.com/hindu.html Near-Death Experiences Among Survivors of the 1976 Tangshan Earthquake (Chinese) Excerpt: Our subjects reported NDE phemenological items not mentioned, or rarely mentioned in NDE's reported from other countries: sensations of the world being exterminated or ceasing to exist, a sense of weightlessness, a feeling of being pulled or squeezed, ambivalence about death, a feeling of being a different person, or a different kind of person and unusual scents. The predominant phemenological features in our series were feeling estranged from the body as if it belonged to someone else, unusually vivid thoughts, loss of emotions, unusual bodily sensations, life seeming like a dream, a feeling of dying,,, These are not the same phemenological features most commonly found by researchers in other countries. Greyson (1983) reported the most common phemenological feature of American NDE's to be a feeling of peace, joy, time stopping, experiencing an unearthly realm of existence, a feeling of cosmic unity, and a out of body experience. http://www.newdualism.org/nde-papers/Zhi-ying/Zhi-ying-Journal%20of%20Near-Death%20Studies_1992-11-39-48.pdf The Japanese find death a depressing experience - From an item by Peter Hadfield in the New Scientist (Nov. 30th 1991) Excerpt: A study in Japan shows that even in death the Japanese have an original way of looking at things. Instead of seeing 'tunnels of light' or having 'out of body' experiences, near-dead patients in Japanese hospitals tend to see rather less romantic images, according to researchers at Kyorin University. According to a report in the Mainichi newspaper, a group of doctors from Kyorin has spent the past year documenting the near-death experiences of 17 patients. They had all been resuscitated from comas caused by heart attacks, strokes, asthma or drug poisoning. All had shown minimal signs of life during the coma. Yoshia Hata, who led the team, said that eight of the 17 recalled 'dreams', many featuring rivers or ponds. Five of those patients had dreams which involved fear, pain and suffering. One 50-year-old asthmatic man said he had seen himself wade into a reservoir and do a handstand in the shallows. 'Then I walked out of the water and took some deep breaths. In the dream, I was repeating this over and over.' Another patient, a 73-year-old woman with cardiac arrest, saw a cloud filled with dead people. 'It was a dark, gloomy day. I was chanting sutras. I believed they could be saved if they chanted sutras, so that is what I was telling them to do.' Most of the group said they had never heard of Near-Death Experiences before. http://www.pureinsight.org/node/4 Also of note, Stalin, who killed more of his own people during peace time than Hitler killed during the war, shook his fist at the God he did not believe in on his death bed,,, “A story I heard personally from Malcolm Muggeridge (that stirred me then and still does even yet) was his account of a conversation he had with Svetlana Stalin, the daughter of Josef Stalin. She spent some time with Muggeridge in his home in England while they were working together on their BBC production on the life of her father. According to Svetlana, as Stalin lay dying, plagued with terrifying hallucinations, he suddenly sat halfway up in bed, clenched his fist toward the heavens once more, fell back upon his pillow, and was dead.” Ravi Zacharias, Can Man Live Without God, (Word Publ., Dallas: 1994), p. 26. Box, now taking into consideration that cultures who believe in reincarnation consistently have hellish NDE's, is Stalin in heaven or hell?bornagain77_{October 22, 2014
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Thanks to Barry for a bold action to open up the discussion here. There are a lot of risks that come along with this move but I think the benefits will outweigh the negatives. I think the greater diversity of ID-opponents will prevent threads from being dominated by one person (ES, RDFish) for several days. I think it can cut down on some of the frustration that leads to angry attacks and name-calling also. I've noticed it myself when there's a single opponent who simply denies the arguments given (sand castles vs sand piles) and refuses to answer questions, it gets to the point where it seems like personal insults are the only thing to do. When the conversations are more diversified, it's easier to just stop running in circles with a single individual who wants to play the merry-go-round game, and move on with people who are more open to what ID has to say. I'd advise returnees to read Mark Frank's posts as very good examples of how to disagree without being disagreeable.Silver Asiatic_{October 22, 2014
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So moral justice is never really actually dealt with in your worldview? Hitler just realizes in some future reincarnated life, that it was morally wrong to kill 6 million Jews and everything is all better? But, supposing reincarnation is just unscientific wishful thinking on your part, (as I hold it to be), where is the moral justice in all that for all the people who were killed, and had their lives, and everything near and dear to them, torn apart by Hitler? Psalm 58:10 The godly will rejoice when they see injustice avenged. They will wash their feet in the blood of the wicked.bornagain77_{October 22, 2014
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BA77 #83: I firmly believe in the afterlife, but not in a place called hell. So, how about Hitler? Well, I suppose that, in the afterlife (if he is there at the moment - I believe in reincarnation), Hitler has been (or will be) convinced of the wrongness of his tremendous cruelty and absurd ideas. Ultimately everyone will see the light - Hitler included.Box_{October 22, 2014
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correction do you believe Hitler is in heaven OR hell?bornagain77_{October 22, 2014
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Are you saying that, besides God, eternal torturing is a necessary part of a rational basis for ‘moral justice’? or to put it another way, do you believe Hitler is in heaven of hell? would it be 'morally just' for Hitler to be thrown in hell? If not why not?bornagain77_{October 22, 2014
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And yet for justice, mercy, and logic to even exist you must ultimately appeal to God, heaven, and hell in order to provide a rational basis for ‘moral justice’ as to your claim for the ‘unrighteousness’ of hell.
Are you saying that, besides God, eternal torturing is a necessary part of a rational basis for ‘moral justice’?Box_{October 22, 2014
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As to 'Perfectly baldardashery', what actually is 'Perfectly baldardashery' is the Darwinian belief that unguided processes can produce a level of complexity that man will never fully understand, much less mimic,, "Complexity Brake" Defies Evolution - August 2012 Excerpt: "This is bad news. Consider a neuronal synapse -- the presynaptic terminal has an estimated 1000 distinct proteins. Fully analyzing their possible interactions would take about 2000 years. Or consider the task of fully characterizing the visual cortex of the mouse -- about 2 million neurons. Under the extreme assumption that the neurons in these systems can all interact with each other, analyzing the various combinations will take about 10 million years..., even though it is assumed that the underlying technology speeds up by an order of magnitude each year.",,, Even with shortcuts like averaging, "any possible technological advance is overwhelmed by the relentless growth of interactions among all components of the system," Koch said. "It is not feasible to understand,, organisms by exhaustively cataloging all interactions in a comprehensive, bottom-up manner." He described the concept of the Complexity Brake:,,, "Allen and Greaves recently introduced the metaphor of a "complexity brake" for the observation that fields as diverse as neuroscience and cancer biology have proven resistant to facile predictions about imminent practical applications. Improved technologies for observing and probing biological systems has only led to discoveries of further levels of complexity that need to be dealt with. This process has not yet run its course. We are far away from understanding cell biology, genomes, or brains, and turning this understanding into practical knowledge.",,, Why can't we use the same principles that describe technological systems? Koch explained that in an airplane or computer, the parts are "purposefully built in such a manner to limit the interactions among the parts to a small number." The limited interactome of human-designed systems avoids the complexity brake. "None of this is true for nervous systems.",,, to read more go here: http://www.evolutionnews.org/2012/08/complexity_brak062961.htmlbornagain77_{October 22, 2014
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And yet for justice, mercy, and logic to even exist you must ultimately appeal to God, heaven, and hell in order to provide a rational basis for 'moral justice' as to your claim for the 'unrighteousness' of hell.bornagain77_{October 22, 2014
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@ba77:
Are we going to follow our emotions, and not our science, as Charles Darwin did?
Sorry, I can't stop being empathic. :-( I start with the following self-evident truth: Torturing someone for the "crime" of having the wrong religion is self-evidently evil. Since God is good and hell exists, it follows: Hell is empty. Furthermore: If anyone is in hell, paradise will be like a village nearby a concentration camp. For empathic beings paradise will then become hell. Like I said:
If I would be in paradise knowing my wife (or anyone else) is in hell, paradise would become hell for me.
JWTruthInLove_{October 22, 2014
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Are we going to follow our emotions, and not our science, as Charles Darwin did? or are we going to trust God and what our science tells us?
I'm not following Charles D., since the concept of hell is no argument against ID nor an argument against my personal belief in a just God. However the concept of hell is an argument against Christianity - providing that the two are inextricably linked. Explain to JWTruthInLove, how to celebrate his stay in paradise, while his wife is tortured in Hell for eternity.Box_{October 22, 2014
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Peter b- you don't know what evidence is. ID has plenty of it. OTOH unguided evolution doesn't have anything. ATP synthase is evidence for ID. Living organisms are evidence for ID. Why? Because unguided processes cannot account for them and they meet the design criteria. Thanks fer playin'Joe_{October 22, 2014
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#64 No evidence then, as you cannot present it … Evidence is what I’m asking, not claims … Claims are all you have, Joe … After that many years of claims, no evidence at all … #67, 73 “One destructive eternity associated with General Relativity and one extremely orderly eternity associated with Special Relativity,,,” This is absolutely beautiful! Perfectly baldardashery! How lucky trolls like Ba77 are allowed again! How clever to call reasonable dissent about hell ‘emotional’! As soon as anyone falls back on calling an argument ‘emotional’, it’s certain beyond any doubt or common dissent that this anyone has no rational arguments to counter what he won’t accept. Thank you for using this framing, Ba77!peter b_{October 22, 2014
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As to the emotional responses against hell, Darwin himself echoed that exact same sentiment,,,
"I can hardly see how anyone ought to wish Christianity to be true; for if so, the plain language of the text seems to show that the men who do not believe, and this would include my Father, Brother, and almost all my best friends, will be everlastingly punished. And this is a damnable doctrine. Charles Darwin - quoted from his autobiography http://dwindlinginunbelief.blogspot.com/2009/01/damnable-doctrine.html
and yet, as pointed out before, our physics itself, i.e. our science not our emotions, reveals to two very different ‘eternities’ to us, a destructive one and a ordered one:
Special Relativity, General Relativity, Heaven and Hell https://docs.google.com/document/d/1_4cQ7MXq8bLkoFLYW0kq3Xq-Hkc3c7r-gTk0DYJQFSg/edit
As well, as pointed out before, the observational evidence is far, far, stronger for Near Death Experiences than it is for unguided neo-Darwinian evolution. Thus, the rational/scientific, not the emotional, conclusion is that, as far as our science itself can tell us, Hell is a real place. ,,, A bit more on Charles Darwin's emotional response against God, both Charles Darwin and Abraham Lincoln were born on the same day and shared many strange similarities in their lives, but the one common thing they shared that separated the two men drastically was the way they choose to handle the evil that happened in their lives. Darwin, though drifting away from God for a long while, was permanently driven away from God because of what he perceived to be the 'unjust' death of his daughter, Whereas Lincoln, on the other hand, was driven from his mild skepticism into a deep reliance upon God because of the death of his son. https://uncommondescent.com/philosophy/is-atheism-rationally-justifiable/#comment-443197 i.e. Are we going to follow our emotions, and not our science, as Charles Darwin did? or are we going to trust God and what our science tells us? I like the following quote as to the proper attitude we should have,,,
"We are His masterpiece. The greatest creation he has ever made. See what God has to offer you. See what He can do and you will be amazed. When something hits you hard, don't put that blame on God put that weight on God. Say, "God, take that weight off me." And He will and He will carry you through the shadow of death, because He wants you to come out on the other side." - Mark Herzlich - The Linebacker Who Couldn’t Be Stopped by Cancer - video http://www.cbn.com/tv/3775240000001
Supplemenal note:
The Easter Question - Eben Alexander, M.D. - March 2013 Excerpt: More than ever since my near death experience, I consider myself a Christian -,,, Now, I can tell you that if someone had asked me, in the days before my NDE, what I thought of this (Easter) story, I would have said that it was lovely. But it remained just that -- a story. To say that the physical body of a man who had been brutally tortured and killed could simply get up and return to the world a few days later is to contradict every fact we know about the universe. It wasn't simply an unscientific idea. It was a downright anti-scientific one. But it is an idea that I now believe. Not in a lip-service way. Not in a dress-up-it's-Easter kind of way. I believe it with all my heart, and all my soul.,, We are, really and truly, made in God's image. But most of the time we are sadly unaware of this fact. We are unconscious both of our intimate kinship with God, and of His constant presence with us. On the level of our everyday consciousness, this is a world of separation -- one where people and objects move about, occasionally interacting with each other, but where essentially we are always alone. But this cold dead world of separate objects is an illusion. It's not the world we actually live in.,,, ,,He (God) is right here with each of us right now, seeing what we see, suffering what we suffer... and hoping desperately that we will keep our hope and faith in Him. Because that hope and faith will be triumphant. http://www.huffingtonpost.com/eben-alexander-md/the-easter-question_b_2979741.html
Also of note, Dr. Mary Neal reveals in her following testimony that although she loved her children very much, she wanted to stay in heaven very much and did not want to return to her children,,,
Present! - Mary Neal's Near-Death Experience - Sept. 2014 - video https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=as6yslz-RDw Dr. Mary Neal presents an in depth account of her near-death experience at the 2014 Conference of the International Association for Near-Death Studies in Newport Beach, California.
Verse and Music:
John 11:35 Jesus wept. Need You Now - Plumb - live https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WGIumjD6I3M
bornagain77_{October 22, 2014
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Graham2 #69: This cant be a widely held belief, its just sick.

JWTruthInLove #70: If I would be in paradise knowing my wife (or anyone else) is in hell, paradise would become hell for me.
I second wholeheartedly both Graham2 and JWTruthInLove. If hell is inextricably linked to Christianity I will never become a christian. IOW I will refuse to have anything to do with the Christian God.Box_{October 22, 2014
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Graham2 I'm not sure of your intentions, because I can't read your secret heart but this might help you... Matthew 12:32 ""Whoever speaks a word against the Son of Man, it shall be forgiven him;" You don't know if you ought to be a Christian Graham2, but you know you ought to be man, not an ostrich hiding his head in the sand. Is it not the job of everyman to devout his life to either accepting this secret to the universe or exposing it as the biggest sell on record?Andre_{October 22, 2014
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@Graham2:
This cant be a widely held belief, its just sick.
Yes it is. Also, hell doesn't make any sense. That's why hell might be an empty place. God doesn't send any one to hell. You either die (cease to exist) or you live in paradise. If I would be in paradise knowing my wife (or anyone else) is in hell, paradise would become hell for me.JWTruthInLove_{October 22, 2014
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BA77: I looked at a few minutes of the Wiese video (all I could take), and apparently I will be condemned to eternal torture for not believing in God. But God is love. Condemned for not believing something ? Tortured for my thoughts ? Does this sound moral to you ? Perhaps some other denizens of UD could comment. This cant be a widely held belief, its just sick.Graham2_{October 22, 2014
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corrected links: Former Atheist Howard Storm - video - part 1 http://www.daystar.com/ondemand/video/?video=2625342593001 part 2 http://www.daystar.com/ondemand/video/?video=2625342592001bornagain77_{October 22, 2014
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Graham2 asks,,,
“To Bornagain77: Just in case there is something after I die, do you think I should repent/convert ? What if I don’t ? What do you think is waiting for me ?”
Well Graham2, if you refuse to have anything to do with God, and refuse forgiveness for your sin through the propitiation of Christ,,,
G.O.S.P.E.L. – (the grace of propitiation) poetry slam – video https://vimeo.com/20960385
,, if you refuse that grace, then you will be separated from all the good and perfect things that are in God, and in God alone, and be placed or 'thrown' into hell,
“There are only two kinds of people in the end: those who say to God, "Thy will be done," and those to whom God says, in the end, "Thy will be done." All that are in Hell, choose it. Without that self-choice there could be no Hell." - C.S. Lewis, The Great Divorce Why Hell is so Horrible - Bill Wiese - video http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0hd_so3wPw8
Graham2, you may say that you doubt that there is life after death, but there is in fact far more observational evidence for 'something after I die' than there is for unguided Darwinian processes building up functional complexity, (which is a myth that you seem to believe in so fervently),,
Near-Death Experiences: Putting a Darwinist's Evidentiary Standards to the Test - Dr. Michael Egnor - October 15, 2012 Excerpt: Indeed, about 20 percent of NDE's are corroborated, which means that there are independent ways of checking about the veracity of the experience. The patients knew of things that they could not have known except by extraordinary perception -- such as describing details of surgery that they watched while their heart was stopped, etc. Additionally, many NDE's have a vividness and a sense of intense reality that one does not generally encounter in dreams or hallucinations.,,, The most "parsimonious" explanation -- the simplest scientific explanation -- is that the (Near Death) experience was real. Tens of millions of people have had such experiences. That is tens of millions of more times than we have observed the origin of species, (or the origin of life, or the origin of a molecular machine), which is never.,,, The materialist reaction, in short, is unscientific and close-minded. NDE's show fellows like Coyne at their sneering unscientific irrational worst. Somebody finds a crushed fragment of a fossil and it's earth-shaking evidence. Tens of million of people have life-changing spiritual experiences and it's all a big yawn. Note: Dr. Egnor is professor and vice-chairman of neurosurgery at the State University of New York at Stony Brook. per Evolution News and Views
And exactly as would be expected on a Theistic view of reality, we find two very different eternities in reality. One destructive eternity associated with General Relativity and one extremely orderly eternity associated with Special Relativity,,,
Two very different ‘eternities’ revealed by physics: Special Relativity, General Relativity, Heaven and Hell https://docs.google.com/document/d/1_4cQ7MXq8bLkoFLYW0kq3Xq-Hkc3c7r-gTk0DYJQFSg/edit
As to,,
"do you think I should repent/convert ?"
Yes!
Matthew 18:9 And if your eye causes you to stumble, gouge it out and throw it away. It is better for you to enter life with one eye than to have two eyes and be thrown into the fire of hell.
as to,,
What if I don’t ? What do you think is waiting for me ?
I've already listed this,, "Two very different ‘eternities’ revealed by physics: Special Relativity, General Relativity, Heaven and Hell",, but to get more specific as to what is waiting on the other side for those who reject the the grace of God in Christ,
23 Minutes in Hell - Bill Wiese - video https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AYxKRoONrfY Hell - A Warning! – video https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=HSgH2AHkfkw&list=PLCB5F225ABC1F7330#t=420 video - Hear Howard Storm’s moving firsthand account of his (Near Death) experience in Hell during a brush with death in Paris, France. http://www.daystar.com/ondemand/joni-hell-howard-storm-j922/#.UKzJ2YYsE30 video - Howard Storm continues to share his gripping story of his own near death experience. Today, he picks up just as Jesus was rescuing him from the horrors of Hell and carrying him into the glories of Heaven. http://www.daystar.com/ondemand/joni-heaven-howard-storm-j924/#.UKu3HIYsE30
It should also be noted that, contrary to pouplar belief,,, All foreign, non-Judeo-Christian culture, NDE studies I have looked at have a extreme rarity of encounters with 'The Being Of Light' and tend to be very unpleasant NDE's save for the few pleasant children's NDEs of those cultures that I've seen (It seems there is indeed an 'age of accountability'). The following study was shocking for what was found in some non-Judeo-Christian NDE's:
Near-Death Experiences in Thailand - Todd Murphy: Excerpt:The Light seems to be absent in Thai NDEs. So is the profound positive affect found in so many Western NDEs. The most common affect in our collection is negative. Unlike the negative affect in so many Western NDEs (cf. Greyson & Bush, 1992), that found in Thai NDEs (in all but case #11) has two recognizable causes. The first is fear of 'going'. The second is horror and fear of hell. It is worth noting that although half of our collection include seeing hell (cases 2,6,7,9,10) and being forced to witness horrific tortures, not one includes the NDEer having been subjected to these torments themselves. http://www.shaktitechnology.com/thaindes.htm Near Death Experience Thailand Asia - video http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y8M5J3zWG5g
bornagain77_{October 22, 2014
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What was I thinking? Of course Father Time, Mother Nature and some unknown process- the materialistic trinity- can produce just about anything. Thanks Andre- on this we can agree! ;)Joe_{October 22, 2014
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Joe don't be daft now! You know we can't distinguish between a pile of Legos and a Lego castle..... it is impossible..... Also a heap of sand and a sand sculpture is impossible to differentiate!!! We also can't say with any certainty if Mount Rushmore is the product of natural processes or design...... The same applies for molecular machines, they just build themselves, just give them a chance and some time Joe you are too impatient! Seriously Joe! :)Andre_{October 22, 2014
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peter b- the evidence for ID has been presented time and again. Your ignorance is duly noted.Joe_{October 22, 2014
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#36 “Hopefully I’m wrong and a few ‘trolls’ will finally be honest to the evidence for design and have a change of heart, and humbly, and truly, ask for forgiveness from the only one who is truly qualified to grant it to humans when they ask for it,,, since, in reality, it is against God alone, and God alone, that all men have sinned and must give a final account” BA77 knows so much about science … Perhaps he should present his evidence for design … Screaming against evolution doesn’t count … So nothing whatever ever presented here does count … Ask for forgiveness, bornagain77, for your arrogance …. It would be fitting you did so …peter b_{October 22, 2014
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Hi, everyone! Did you miss me? I know KF did. :-)keith s_{October 22, 2014
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Graham2 "To Bornagain77: Just in case there is something after I die, do you think I should repent/convert ? What if I don’t ? What do you think is waiting for me ?" Off hand I'd say, "Death", the opposite of "Life" in other words "nonexistence, but then you already believe in that.DavidD_{October 21, 2014
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