Was Killing Babies Good?

_{Barry Arrington

February 4, 2019

Intelligent Design}

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I have a question for our materialist interlocutors. As Georgi Boorman summarizes in this article, in many ancient cultures killing certain babies was an acceptable, even lauded, practice. Here’s my question: You say that morality is a social construct; which means that “good” means what the people of a society collectively deem to be good. If that is so, was it an affirmatively good thing when an ancient pagan killed a baby girl because she was a baby girl instead of a baby boy?

Comments

Peace & joy. I spent the morning with my grandchildren. They NEVER discuss politics or economics or world history. I simply LOVE babies. Holding a young human who is less than 1 year old is one of the most wondrous things in the whole world. Staring back into their eyes while they're still trying to figure out what's going on outside Mom is entirely Magick. And having them wrap their whole hand around one of your fingers is one of the foundational events in human society. One the many cases for infanticide was that a mother could not FEED 2 (or more) babies, and so one of a set of twins was killed, typically by "exposure" (abandoning the child at some distance from the nearest town). Greek and Roman literature contain many tales about an abandoned twin who was rescued by a chance passerby. I'm sure the mothers cried their hearts out when the selection was made, and innocent baby was sent off to her or his death. There are other cultures in which it was a basic principle that a woman's first SURVIVING child HAD TO BE male. So when the new baby was determined to be female, the baby died. Making such horrible decisions a matter of "law" surely solved SOME of the agony of sending your innocent baby to death. BUT... Morality is ENTIRELY subjective and varies by, among other things, the material development of the society making up the morality. So, before the Christian (i.e., CATHOLIC) missionaries converted the Norsemen, the Vikings routinely killed (typically by exposure on the beach at LOW tide) any baby born to a SLAVE. The Norsemen did NOT murder their OWN children (although there may have been exceptions for obvious cripples). Killing the offspring of slaves was a population control measure. Once they STOPPED killing the offspring of their slaves (whose fathers were undoubtedly Norsemen), the Lower Class exploded, and classic Viking society died: there were too many mouths to feed, and EVERYBODY needed to get back to farming. Etc., etc. There is NO fixed, universal "morality". And people who DETERMINEDLY ignore History and Philosophy to argue for some particular version of Right & Wrong are, well, Confused. And Ignorant (i.e., "unacquainted with the facts). So I'll stop bothering to write comments on any new lunacies.vmahuna_{February 4, 2019
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Dear readers, Notice how all three of our interlocutors (Bob, Ed, and Hazel) have studiously avoided answering the question posed.Barry Arrington_{February 4, 2019
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Hazel,
people draw on an inward source of moral judgment
And I take it you point this out to make clear that your inner light would have led you to condemn the practice. Good for you Hazel, Now, I will ask you the same question I asked Bob and Ed: Suppose you had lived in an ancient pagan society where killing babies was considered good by nearly everyone. Suppose you were the lone holdout, the only one in the whole society who insisted it was not good. Would you have been right and everyone else wrong?Barry Arrington_{February 4, 2019
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re 9: as kf has pointed out, if that definition were true, reform would never be possible. It seems to me, in part from my own internal experience and in part from my empirical knowledge of people and societies, that people draw on an inward source of moral judgment in addition to the cultural views which embody the moral judgments of their society.hazel_{February 4, 2019
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Let's make it a bit simpler: "... that morality is a social construct; which means that “good” means what the people of a society collectively deem to be good" Do you agree with this definition? The answer to the question you've been avoiding hinges on this definition. Tell us if the definition is correct and we can deduce the answer to the subsequent question for ourselves.ScuzzaMan_{February 4, 2019
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Bob,
I would think I was right.
Yes, we already know that. That was assumed in the question. The question is this: Would you have been right and everyone else wrong?Barry Arrington_{February 4, 2019
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Barry - I would think I was right, of course.Bob O'H_{February 4, 2019
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Ed George:
I believe that killing babies for any reason is wrong.
Good for you Ed. I ask you the same question I asked Bob: Suppose you had lived in an ancient pagan society where killing babies was considered good by nearly everyone. Suppose you were the lone holdout, the only one in the whole society who insisted it was not good. Would you have been right and everyone else wrong?Barry Arrington_{February 4, 2019
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I believe that killing babies for any reason is wrong. But, admittedly, I am basing this on current standards and a lifetime of living in our modern privileged society. I can't say for certain if I would hold the same belief if I lived amongst these ancient pagans.Ed George_{February 4, 2019
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Bob,
Not by my own standards, certainly.
Good for you. Suppose you had lived in an ancient pagan society where killing babies was considered good by nearly everyone. Suppose you were the lone holdout, the only one in the whole society who insisted it was not good. Would you have been right and everyone else wrong?Barry Arrington_{February 4, 2019
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UD Editors: Attempted hijacking of thread deleted. Does anyone want to address the topic raised in the OP? chris haynes_{February 4, 2019
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UD Editors: Comment deleted for violation of this UD policy. If you want to argue scriptural exegesis, go to another site. If you want to comment on the topic raised in the OP, by all means do so.lantog_{February 4, 2019
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Affirmatively good thing by who's standard? Not by my own standards, certainly.Bob O'H_{February 4, 2019
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