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What if we DID find irreducibly complex biological features?

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In any debate on Intelligent Design, there is a question I have long wished to see posed to ID opponents: “If we DID discover some biological feature that was irreducibly complex, to your satisfication and to the satisfaction of all reasonable observers, would that justify the design inference?” (Of course, I believe we have found thousands of such features, but never mind that.)

If the answer is yes, we just haven’t found any such thing yet, then all the constantly-repeated philosophical arguments that “ID is not science” immediately fall. If the answer is no, then at least the lay observer will be able to understand what is going on here, that Darwinism is not grounded on empirical evidence but a philosophy.

(Added later)

To make the point more concretely: In my 1985 Springer-Verlag book ( here ) I gave as an example of irreducible complexity (though I didn’t use the term, of course) a carnivorous plant which catches small animals like this: an animal touches a trigger hair, which causes a double-sealed, valve-like door to open, and a water-tight vacuum chamber suddenly expands, sucking the victim into the trap, where it is digested, then the trap is reset for the next victim. Now, any reasonable person would say: this trap couldn’t have evolved through a single random mutation, and none of the parts seem to have any use whatever until all are in place, and until the vacuum chamber is water-tight, and the abilities to digest insects and to reset the trap are functional. A gradual development of this trap through useless stages toward usefulness would be no easier to explain–through natural selection or any other natural mechanism–than a sudden development. (See also the section “The origin of carnivorous plants” in the reference here )

Naturally, any Darwinist can come up with some far-fectched senario whereby the trigger hair had some earlier use, the vacuum chamber had some function before it became water-tight, etc.

My question is: what if we found another example, even more spectacular, so spectacular that every reasonable person would be forced to admit it could not have evolved through small improvements. Then would you consider the design inference justified? If you say yes, then you are admitting that design is a possible, even if currently unjustified, scientific hypothesis. If you say no, then everyone will finally understand that, as W.E.Loennig has stated, today’s evolutionary theory is completely unfalsifiable.

Comments
TomG: it seems to me that the hypothetical answer you cite is just the second one: "no, it doesn't matter what we find in the cell, the design inference would never be justified" (or as Loennig puts it, neo-Darwinism cannot be falsified).Granville Sewell
August 30, 2007
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From my blog: To give credit where it is due, Dawkins then adds: Maybe there is something out there in nature that really does preclude, by its genuinely irreducible complexity, the smooth gradient of Mount Improbable. The creationists are right that, if genuinely irreducible complexity could be properly demonstrated, it would wreck Darwin's theory. Darwin himself said as much. (p.151) Of course, if something can be shown to be evolutionarily impossible, Dawkins currently believes that this will also knock design theory on its head, so he's not too fazed by this possibility. Whether he would be more concerned when he sees the weakness of his “Ultimate Boeing 747 gambit” remains to be seen.Exile from GROGGS
August 30, 2007
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I think the claim over at PT is more like this--a lot of biological features fit some definition of 'irreducible complexity,' but exaptation allows IC structures to evolve step-by-step.Reed Orak
August 30, 2007
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I think it's clear that Darwin's answer, in Origin of Species was "yes, we just haven't found any such thing". But since the opening of Darwin's Black Box (the cell) has brought to light innumerable features that are at least "apparently" irreducibly complex, Darwin's disciples have shifted to the second answer: it doesn't matter how strong the supporting evidence is, you can't discuss ID in science classrooms because it isn't science.Granville Sewell
August 30, 2007
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I agree with your idea, Granville. But I know how hard that conclusion would be for some to swallow, so I'm trying to imagine how they might respond. I suppose they could deal with it this way: "It won't happen. We'll never find any irreducibly complex features in life. The definition for IC is too vague; and besides, we could never know for sure that there couldn't have been something in natural history that could have built this thing naturally." Even that, though, would help advance the discussion in favor of ID, because: - It would be an admission that the question has a legitimate philosophical side (the definition of IC, among other things). - It would therefore be an ineluctable admission that the matter of origins has a philosophical side, and no one can claim it is just a matter of science. - It could thus help the world understand what should be obvious but apparently is not: that "science" is not the sole ruler of the world of knowledge; philosophy counts as well. - It would amount to evolution of the gaps: "We don't know how evolution did it--and we don't really need to know--but we know it did!" - And finally, it would be lame. Just that simple. So I say let's press the question.TomG
August 30, 2007
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On point, as usual, Granville.Atom
August 30, 2007
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