Uncommon Descent Serving The Intelligent Design Community

What kind of evolution does the Pope believe in?

Share
Facebook
Twitter/X
LinkedIn
Flipboard
Print
Email

Last Friday RealClearReligion.org, featured an article titled, The Pope Believes in Evolution (Aleteia, 13 June 2014) by M. Anthony Mills, a Ph.D. candidate in the history and philosophy of science at Notre Dame University. Mills’ article was written in response to an earlier article by George Dvorsky (io9.com, March 16, 2013), titled, Does the new Pope believe in evolution? In his article, Dvorsky argued that Catholicism and Darwinism don’t mix: you cannot accept both. Darwinian evolution, according to Dvorsky, is “a God killer,” “a stand alone system,” a “fully autonomous process that does not require any guiding ‘rationality’ ([Pope] Benedict’s term) to function.”

In his reply to Dvorsky, Anthony Mills makes several concessions that are quite remarkable, for a Catholic philosopher. First, Mills endorses the scientific rejection of teleology lock, stock and barrel: he tells his readers that final causes have now been banished completely from science (including biology). Mills appears to be unfamiliar with the work of Professor Karen Neander, a philosopher of science who contends that the teleological notion of a function is absolutely indispensable to biology. One example she cites is the statement that the function of the heart is to pump blood. There is simply no way to rephrase this statement in non-teleological language without robbing it of its meaning.

Mills’ second naive concession is his assertion that “Darwin proved” that “the complexity that appears to be the mark of a creator is in fact the end-result of random variations over a long period of time.” That would be news to geneticists like James Shapiro, whose recent best-seller, Evolution: A View from the 21st century trenchantly criticizes Darwinism for its inability to satisfactorily account for biological complexity. Shapiro proposes as an alternative his own theory of “natural genetic engineering,” but he openly acknowledges that much work needs to be done in testing his proposal.

Third, Mills blithely declares that “random genetic variations over time” are quite sufficient to answer the scientific question, “How and when did humans come onto the scene?” God, maintains Mills, was perfectly free to make us through a random process if He so wished; He creates things simply by keeping them in existence: “God gives rise to and sustains existence, suffusing it with meaning — whether or not man came from fish, ape, or stardust and whether or not the laws governing that evolution are probabilistic.” Hence, according to Mills, “Evolution doesn’t refute God any more than electromagnetism refutes moral conscience.” However, Mills’ analogy is a flawed one, for if the theory of electromagnetism could explain the workings of the neurons in the human brain in an entirely deterministic fashion, it would indeed render moral conscience redundant as an explanation of human actions. Likewise, the notion of God making us through a random process is an oxymoron: if the process in question is genuinely random, then whatever it generates cannot be the result of design. Of course, God might make us through a process that appears to be random, but that is entirely another matter.

Catholicism and Darwinism: What Dvorsky got right and what he didn’t

Before I explain why I, as a Catholic, reject Mills’ faulty reasoning regarding the role of God as Creator, I’d like to go back to the article by George Dvorsky, which Mills critiqued.

Dvorsky’s article correctly noted that “Catholics don’t believe in polygenism, the idea that humans are descended from a group of early humans” (for a discussion of the binding nature of this teaching, see here). That belief immediately puts them at odds with evolutionary biologists, who assert that the human population has never numbered less than 1,000 individuals (see also here). The recent attempt by the Catholic philosopher Kenneth Kemp to reconcile this scientific claim with Catholic teaching fails spectacularly: he supposes that Adam and Eve may have inter-bred with identical-looking hominids who had human bodies but lacked human souls. However, Professor Kemp’s proposal is at odds with the dogma proclaimed by the ecumenical council of Vienne in 1311, that the rational soul is essentially the form of the human body – making the notion of a being having a human body but lacking a human soul an oxymoron. Thus there is a real tension between Catholic teaching about human origins and the findings of science. Whereas scientific models of human populations in the past are naturalistic, in that they assume that the genes in the human population have never been manipulated by an Intelligent Agent, and that the size of the human population has never been influenced by any such agent, Catholicism is quite open to both forms of Divine intervention. Consequently Catholics are bound to reject conclusions regarding the size of the original human population which based entirely on population genetics.

Dvorsky was also correct when he pointed out that according to Catholic teaching, the human soul is “a creation of God and not the product of material forces. On this point, the Church will never waver.” Here, again, the tension between Catholic teaching and scientific findings is very real. Many psychologists have argued that recent experiments rule out the existence of free will, leaving no place for the human soul to influence our actions. (I should point out, however, that Benjamin Libet, who pioneered these experiments, took a different view, and that some neuroscientists continue to champion belief in free will.)

However, Dvorsky’s article also got a lot wrong – it claims, for instance, that the Catholic Church “openly rejects Intelligent Design and Young Earth Creationism saying that it ‘pretends to be science‘”, but the source it cited in support of this astonishing claim was not a Pope or bishop but a Jesuit priest, Fr. George Coyne, a former director of the Vatican Observatory who was, according to the Italian news agency ANSA, speaking informally at a conference in Florence when he made his off-the-cuff remark that intelligent design “isn’t science, even though it pretends to be.” I should note in passing that Fr. Coyne made the following assertion on the PBS “Faith and Reason” series in 2006: “The knowledge of God, the belief in God, is what I call an a-rational process. It’s not rational – it doesn’t proceed by scientific investigation – but it’s not irrational because it doesn’t contradict my reasoning process. It goes beyond it.” Fr. Coyne appears not to understand the teaching of his own Church, which has dogmatically declared that “God, the source and end of all things, can be known with certainty from the consideration of created things, by the natural power of human reason.” Although it does not describe this knowledge of God as scientific knowledge, the Church declares that “ever since the creation of the world, his invisible nature has been clearly perceived in the things that have been made.” In short: Fr. Coyne is hardly a credible source regarding the Catholic Church’s teaching on evolution.

Pope Benedict XVI wearing Cappello Romano during an open-air Mass in 2007. Image courtesy of Wikipedia.

In his article, Dvorsky also cited the following statement by Pope Benedict XVI said about evolution at a meeting with the clergy of the dioceses of Belluno-Feltre and Treviso, at the Church of St Justin Martyr, Auronzo di Cadore, on Tuesday, 24 July 2007:

Currently, I see in Germany, but also in the United States, a somewhat fierce debate raging between so-called “creationism” and evolutionism, presented as though they were mutually exclusive alternatives: those who believe in the Creator would not be able to conceive of evolution, and those who instead support evolution would have to exclude God. This antithesis is absurd because, on the one hand, there are so many scientific proofs in favour of evolution which appears to be a reality we can see and which enriches our knowledge of life and being as such. But on the other, the doctrine of evolution does not answer every query, especially the great philosophical question: where does everything come from? And how did everything start which ultimately led to man? I believe this is of the utmost importance. This is what I wanted to say in my lecture at Regensburg: that reason should be more open, that it should indeed perceive these facts but also realize that they are not enough to explain all of reality. They are insufficient. Our reason is broader and can also see that our reason is not basically something irrational, a product of irrationality, but that reason, creative reason, precedes everything and we are truly the reflection of creative reason. We were thought of and desired; thus, there is an idea that preceded me, a feeling that preceded me, that I must discover, that I must follow, because it will at last give meaning to my life. This seems to me to be the first point: to discover that my being is truly reasonable, it was thought of, it has meaning.

This is hardly a ringing endorsement of Darwinian evolution. Pope Benedict expressly declared that evolution could not explain the human capacity to reason: on this point, he is clearly siding with Alfred Russel Wallace, who famously invoked a higher power to explain the origin of human intelligence, and against Charles Darwin, who considered his theory of evolution to be an all-encompassing account of living things, including ourselves.

Human beings, according to Pope Benedict, were planned by God from the beginning – in his own words, “We were thought of and desired.” In a homily given in St. Peter’s square on 24 April 2005, the Pope went even further:

We are not some casual and meaningless product of evolution. Each of us is the result of a thought of God. Each of us is willed, each of us is loved, each of us is necessary.

On this point, Pope Benedict’s are completely at odds with the views articulated in the Nobel Laureates Initiative, a joint declaration of 38 Nobel Laureates (most of them scientists) in a petition sent to the Kansas Board of Education on September 9, 2005, and organized by the Elie Wiesel Foundation for Humanity. The petition contained the following statement:

Logically derived from confirmable evidence, evolution is understood to be the result of an unguided, unplanned process of random variation and natural selection.

Evolutionary biologist Jerry Coyne agrees, although he qualifies his remarks by adding that the evolutionary process lacks any purpose, as far as we can tell. In an article titles, What’s the problem with unguided evolution?, he writes (italics Coyne’s):

[E]volution is, as far as we can tell, purposeless and unguided. There seems to be no direction, mutations are random, and we haven’t detected a teleological force or agent that pushes it in one direction. And it’s important to realize this: the great importance of Darwin’s theory of natural selection is that an unguided, purposeless process can nevertheless produce animals and plants that are exquisitely adapted to their environment. That’s why it’s called natural selection, not supernatural selection or simply selection.

Theistic evolution, then, is supernaturalism, and admitting its possibility denies everything we know about how evolution works. It waters down science with superstition. It should be no crime — in fact, it should be required — for teachers to tell student that natural selection is apparently a purposeless and unguided process (I use the word “apparently” because we’re not 100% sure, but really, do we need to tell physics students that the decay of an atom is “apparently” purposeless?).

Anthony Mills is unfazed by this reasoning: he contends that God can make use of “random genetic variations over time” as a secondary cause by which to accomplish His purposes. On this model, God is rather like the designer of a poker machine, who makes the wheels spin randomly, knowing that eventually, the winning combination will come up. Unlike the poker machine designer, however, God actively maintains the cosmos in being, although He does not guide it towards this or that result. On Mills’ model, one might say that God envisaged our eventual emergence as a species via the evolutionary process, although even this is questionable: did God intend, for instance, that Homo sapiens, rather than the New Caledonian crow or the bottlenose dolphin, would become the first intelligent species in the history of life on Earth?

The evolution envisaged by former Pope Benedict, on the other hand, was very much a God-guided evolution. And on this point, Pope Francis (who is a very good friend of former Pope Benedict’s) would undoubtedly agree.

I’d now like to turn to Anthony Mills’ outlandish claim that the Catholic Church’s greatest theologians, St. Augustine and St. Thomas Aquinas, would have been quite comfortable with Darwin’s theory of evolution.

What did St. Augustine really think about evolution?

Saint Augustine in His Study by Sandro Botticelli, 1480, Chiesa di Ognissanti, Florence, Italy. Image courtesy of Wikipedia.

In his article, Anthony Mills writes that “the Church acknowledges the existence of an evolutionary process — in fact Saint Augustine suggested as much in the 5th century A.D.” Scholarly attempts to cite Saint Augustine as a proponent of evolutionary theory date back to 1871, when St. George Mivart published his work, The Genesis of the Species. Critics responded immediately; but in 1926, a Catholic priest, Fr. Michael J. McKeough, wrote a volume entitled The Meaning of Rationes Seminales in Saint Augustine, in which he argued that although Augustine did not hold that one species of living thing could develop into another, Augustine’s notion of “the gradual appearance of living things upon the earth through the operation of natural laws and secondary causes constitutes a satisfactory philosophical basis for evolution, and merits for him the title of Father of Evolution” (pp. 109-110).

Was St. Augustine a proto-evolutionist?

In his work, De Genesi Ad Litteram, St. Augustine theorized that at the beginning of time, God created all living things in the form of germinal seeds, or rationes seminales (also known as “seminal reasons”). To modern ears, this may sound like a proto-evolutionary theory. Was it? Since St. Augustine’s theory of rationes seminales sounds rather bizarre from a modern perspective, I shall cite an explanation from an unimpeachable source – namely, that given by Fr. Frederick Copleston S.J. in his monumental work, A History of Philosophy. Volume 2: Augustine to Scotus (Burns and Oates, Tunbridge Wells, 1950; paperback edition 1999, p. 77):

The rationes seminales are germs of things or invisible powers or potentialities, created by God in the beginning in the humid element and developing into the objects of various species by their temporal unfolding… Each species then, with all its future developments and particular members, was created at the beginning in the appropriate seminal reason.

Since St. Augustine believed that each species of plant and animal was created separately by God with its own ratio seminalis, it should be quite clear that his theory was not an evolutionary one. The only “development” Augustine envisaged was that of individuals from invisible germ seeds. The idea that species may have arisen in this fashion was utterly contrary to what he wrote on the subject of origins.

In his City of God (Book V, chapter 11), St. Augustine also taught that God personally planned the design of each and every living creature, and that His providence had not left “even the entrails of the smallest and most contemptible animal, or the feather of a bird, or the little flower of a plant, or the leaf of a tree, without an harmony, and, as it were, a mutual peace among all its parts.” It would be difficult to find a more anti-Darwinian view of Nature than the one articulated here by St. Augustine. For the theological motivation underlying Darwin’s Origin of Species was to show that no such Providence existed: God, if He exists, planned only the general laws of Nature, and not the details of creation, which are largely due to accident rather than design.

St. Augustine’s Biblical literalism

St. Augustine also maintained that the world was 6,000 years old (City of God, Book XII, chapter 12); that creatures of all kinds were created instantly at the beginning of time; he expressly taught that living creatures were created separately according to their kinds (De Genesi ad Litteram 3.12.18-20, 5.4.11, 5.6.19, 5.23.46); that Adam and Eve were historical persons; that Paradise was a literal place (City of God, Book XIII, chapter 21); that the patriarch Methusaleh actually lived to the age of 969 (City of God, Book XV, chapter 11); that there was a literal ark, which accommodated male and female land animals of every kind (City of God, Book XV, chapter 27); and that the Flood covered the whole earth (City of God, Book XV, chapter 27).

What’s more, St. Augustine vigorously defended these doctrines against philosophical opponents, who maintained that the human race was very old; that Paradise was a purely spiritual state and not a place; that none of the Biblical patriarchs lived past the age of 100; that the Ark wouldn’t have been big enough to accommodate all of the animals; and that no flood could ever have covered the whole earth. These intellectual adversaries of Augustine’s included pagans who were skeptical of the Genesis account as well as unnamed Christians who sought to downplay the literal meaning of Genesis in favor of a purely allegorical interpretation. Although St. Augustine had a great fondness for allegorical interpretations of Scripture, he also felt that he was bound to remain faithful to the literal sense of Scripture.

In his De Genesi ad Litteram, St. Augustine scoffed at unnamed Christians who were willing to accept the doctrine of the virginal conception of Jesus Christ, but who balked at the Genesis account of the creation of Eve from Adam, preferring to adopt an allegorical interpretation:

But for all that, we have not the slightest doubt that the only creator both of human beings and of trees is God, and we faithfully believe that the woman was made from the man independently of any sexual intercourse, even if the man’s rib may have been served up from the creator’s work by angels: in the same way we faithfully believe that a man was made from a woman independently of any sexual intercourse, when the seed of Abraham was disposed by angels in the hand of the mediator (Gal. 3:19). Both things are incredible to unbelievers; but why should believers find what happened in the case of Christ quite credible when taken in the literal, historical sense, and what is written about Eve only acceptable in its figurative signification?

(On Genesis: The Works of Saint Augustine (#13). Edited by John E. Rotelle. Translated by Edmund Hill. New City Press, New York. 2003. Book IX, 16.30, pp. 393-394.)

Would St. Augustine have been an evolutionist if he were alive today?

It may be objected that St. Augustine would have embraced Darwin’s theory of evolution, were he alive today, since he also taught that when there is a conflict between a proven truth about Nature and a particular reading of Scripture, an alternative reading of Scripture must be sought. The problem with this objection is that it overlooks the more fundamental question: what would St. Augustine have regarded as a “proven truth”? Professor Ernan McMullin addresses this issue in his essay, “Galileo on Science and Scripture,” in The Cambridge Companion to Galileo, ed. Peter Machamer (New York: Cambridge University Press, 1998, pp. 271-347). He writes:

Augustine’s emphasis is on the certainty that is needed for the claim to natural knowledge to count as a challenge to a Scripture reading. He uses phrases in this context like “the facts of experience,” “knowledge acquired by unassailable arguments or proved by the evidence of experience,” and “proofs that cannot be denied” (above). (1998, p. 294.)

The problem with this view for evolutionists is that the case for the neo-Darwinian theory of evolution is not demonstrative in the sense intended by St. Augustine. It does not rest on “proofs that cannot be denied,” “unassailable arguments” or “the facts of experience.” Experience tells us only that some species can evolve (e.g. sticklebacks and cichlid fish). However, there is no direct evidence from scientific observations that microbe-to-man evolution is possible, as a result of purely natural processes.

In his essay, Ernan McMullin ascribes an exegetical principle to St. Augustine that makes him sound strikingly modern: the Principle of Limitation:

Since the primary concern of Scripture is with human salvation, texts of Scripture should not be taken to have a bearing on technical issues of natural science.

However, it is highly doubtful that St. Augustine himself ever advocated this principle, as Dr. Gregory Dawes has pointed out in an article titled, Could there be another Galileo case? Galileo, Augustine and Vatican II. In his De Genesi ad litteram 2.16.33-34, St. Augustine cited Scripture (“Star differs from star in brightness” – 1 Corinthians 15:41) on the technical scientific question of whether the sun and the stars are actually of equal intrinsic brightness (as some of his Christian contemporaries were suggesting). On Dr. Dawes’ view, what St. Augustine really maintained was that biblical texts can have a bearing on technical issues of natural science, even if they were not written for that purpose. Although the Scriptures were meant to teach us how to get to Heaven, what they say must be taken with the utmost seriousness, on those rare occasions when the Scriptures make direct reference to events in the physical world.

What about St. Thomas Aquinas?

St. Thomas Aquinas. Painting from an altarpiece in Ascoli Piceno, Italy, by Carlo Crivelli (15th century). Image courtesy of Wikipedia.

In his article, Anthony Mills also adduces the theological authority of St. Thomas Aquinas in support of his view that God may have fashioned us using a random process:

As Saint Thomas Aquinas emphasized long before the Scientific Revolution, natural science and theology are not competing bodies of knowledge; rather they are distinct and complementary forms of inquiry…

Darwin only showed that biology — as opposed, say, to metaphysics, theology, or ethics — should dispense with “final causes,” as physics did in Newton’s day…

The problem is not Darwin, but the modern notion that theology can only discuss what science fails to explain. Because at one time science failed to explain biological order, people began believing that biological order was safe from scientific advance. But if you profess your religion from within the gaps of scientific knowledge, you will inevitably get crushed as those gaps close.

Better to follow Aquinas, who made a distinction of kind between theological and natural-scientific questions.

It takes breath-taking chutzpah to write an article denying the need for final causes in science, and to then cite St. Thomas Aquinas (who stoutly affirmed their scientific reality, in his commentaries on Aristotle’s Physics) in support of one’s view!

St. Thomas Aquinas: miracles are the best possible evidence for the existence of God

There’s more. In his Summa Contra Gentiles Book III chapter 99 (paragraph 9) (That God Can Work Apart From The Order Implanted In Things, By Producing Effects Without Proximate Causes), Aquinas wrote:

…[D]ivine power can sometimes produce an effect, without prejudice to its providence, apart from the order implanted in natural things by God. In fact, He does this at times to manifest His power. For it can be manifested in no better way, that the whole of nature is subject to the divine will, than by the fact that sometimes He does something outside the order of nature. Indeed, this makes it evident that the order of things has proceeded from Him, not by natural necessity, but by free will.

For St. Thomas Aquinas, then, the production of an effect outside the order of Nature is the best possible proof of the existence of God. The question is: did Aquinas view the origin of new kinds of living things as an event that must have occurred outside the order of Nature?

Like his medieval contemporaries, St. Thomas believed in the popular theory of spontaneous generation, which stated that living things can sometimes arise from dead or decaying matter. However, St. Thomas was quite emphatic that spontaneous generation was impossible for the higher creatures, whom he referred to as perfect animals, on account of their complexity.

Aquinas’ Intelligent Design argument: the first complex animals could only have been created by God

For Aristotle, and for Aquinas, “perfect animals,” in the strict sense of that term, were distinguished by the following criteria:

(i) they require a male’s “seed” in order to reproduce. This means that they can only reproduce sexually, and that they always breed true to type – unlike the lower animals, which were then commonly believed to be generated spontaneously from dead matter, and which were incapable of breeding true to type, when reproducing sexually;

(ii) they give birth to live young, instead of laying eggs – in other words, they are viviparous;

(iii) they possess several different senses (unlike the lower animals, which possess only touch);

(iv) they have a greater range of mental capacities, including not only imagination, desire, pleasure and pain (which are found even in the lower animals), but also memory and a variety of passions with a strong cognitive component, including anger;

(v) they are capable of locomotion;

(vi) generally speaking, they live on the land;

(vii) they often hunt lower animals, which are less perfect than themselves; and

(viii) they have complex body parts, owing to their possession of multiple senses and their more active lifestyle (“perfect animals have the greatest diversity of organs” and “they have more distinct limbs”).

Aquinas mentions each of the eight conditions listed above at various places in his writings, notably in his Summa Contra Gentiles Book II chapter 72, paragraph 5, Summa Theologica I, q. 71 art. 1, and Summa Theologica I, q. 72 art. 1, Reply to Objection 1 (The Work of the Sixth Day).

It may come as a surprise to many readers (and to Mr. Mills) to learn that St. Thomas Aquinas actually put forward an Intelligent Design-style argument in his theological writings, based on the complexity of perfect animals. Because their bodies are more perfect, more conditions are required to produce them. According to Aquinas, the heavenly bodies (which were then believed to initiate all changes taking place on Earth) were capable of generating simple animals from properly disposed matter, but they were incapable of producing perfect animals, because too many conditions would need to be specified to produce such creatures by natural means. As Aquinas writes in his Summa Theologica I, q. 91 art. 2, Reply to Objection 2 (Whether The Human Body Was Immediately Produced By God?):

Reply to Objection 2. Perfect animals, produced from seed, cannot be made by the sole power of a heavenly body, as Avicenna imagined; although the power of a heavenly body may assist by co-operation in the work of natural generation, as the Philosopher says (Phys. ii, 26), “man and the sun beget man from matter.” For this reason, a place of moderate temperature is required for the production of man and other animals. But the power of heavenly bodies suffices for the production of some imperfect animals from properly disposed matter: for it is clear that more conditions are required to produce a perfect than an imperfect thing.

Why are more conditions required to produce perfect animals? As we have seen, Aquinas held that these animals have more complex body parts, partly due to their possession of several senses, but also because of the demands of their active lifestyle (they live on the land and often hunt other creatures). In other words, what Aquinas is doing here is sketching an Intelligent Design argument: the complexity of perfect animals’ body parts and the high degree of specificity required to produce them preclude them from having a non-biological origin. According to Aquinas, the only way they can be naturally generated is from “seed.” From this it follows that the first perfect animals must have been produced by God alone.

A Darwinist might object that the mere fact that an animal is generated only from “seed” does not mean that it couldn’t have evolved from some other kind of animal. What this objection overlooks is that according to Aquinas, the seed had to be seed of the right kind – i.e. from a parent of the same kind.

Aquinas explained the need for the right kind of “seed” when generating perfect animals, in his Summa Contra Gentiles Book III, chapter 102, paragraph 5 (That God Alone Can Work Miracles):

… [P]erfect animals are not generated by celestial power alone, but require a definite kind of semen; however, for the generation of certain imperfect animals, celestial power by itself is enough, without semen.

Additionally, in his Summa Theologica I, q. 72 a. 1, reply to obj. 3, Aquinas explicitly asserted that perfect animals were generated by a parent of the same kind:

Reply to Objection 3. In other animals, and in plants, mention is made of genus and species, to denote the generation of like from like.

Thus given St. Thomas Aquinas’ understanding of biology in his day, if it could be shown that “perfect animals” had not always existed on Earth, it would follow that only God could have generated these animals. They could not, in St. Thomas’ view, have arisen from other animals.

Aquinas clearly articulates this conclusion in his Summa Contra Gentiles Book II chapter 43, paragraph 6 (That The Distinction of Things Is Not Caused By Some Secondary Agent Introducing Diverse Forms Into Matter), where he argues that the action of the heavenly bodies – which were believed to cause changes occurring on Earth – would not have been sufficient to produce the forms of the first animals that are naturally “generated only from seed” (emphasis mine):

[6] … There are, however, many sensible forms which cannot be produced by the motion of the heaven except through the intermediate agency of certain determinate principles pre-supposed to their production; certain animals, for example, are generated only from seed. Therefore, the primary establishment of these forms, for producing which the motion of the heaven does not suffice without their pre-existence in the species, must of necessity proceed from the Creator alone.

Why, the reader might be wondering, did Aquinas not include this argument in his celebrated five proofs for the existence of God? The reason is that in his day, there was no scientific evidence that the universe, or even the Earth, had a beginning. Aristotle, for instance, maintained that man and the other animals had always existed. If that were the case, then there would have been no need for God to create the first “perfect animals.”

What would Aquinas make of the evidence for Intelligent Design today?

Today, the situation is completely different. Scientists now know that the Earth came into existence about 4.54 billion years ago, and that the universe itself has a finite age: 13.798 billion years. And despite strong circumstantial evidence for the common descent of living things, Professor James M. Tour, who is one of the ten most cited chemists in the world, has candidly declared that there’s no scientist alive today who understands macroevolution. Nobody has explained in detail how life, in all its complexity and diversity, could have arisen as a result of an unguided process.

Today, we know that the age of the universe is finite, and who also know that the chances of a living thing – let alone a “perfect animal” – arising spontaneously on the primordial Earth are so low that the evolutionary biologist Dr. Eugene Koonin has calculated that we would need to postulate a vast number of universes – a staggering 101,018 – in which all possible scenarios are played out, in order to make life’s emergence in our universe reasonably likely. By the way, the calculation can be found in a peer-reviewed article, “The Cosmological Model of Eternal Inflation and the Transition from Chance to Biological Evolution in the History of Life” (Biology Direct 2 (2007): 15, doi:10.1186/1745-6150-2-15). Dr. Koonin takes refuge in the multiverse, but as Dr. Robin Collins has argued in an influential essay titled, The Teleological Argument: An Exploration of the Fine-Tuning of the Universe (in The Blackwell Companion to Natural Theology, edited by William Lane Craig and J. P. Moreland, 2009, Blackwell Publishing Ltd.), even a multiverse would still need to be exquisitely fine-tuned, in order to be able to churn out even one universe like ours. Thus invoking the multiverse merely shifts the fine-tuning problem up one level.

What do you think St. Thomas Aquinas would have to say to Christians who knew all these facts, but still tried to accommodate their faith to Darwinism? My guess is that he would be asking these Christians: “Why are you hiding your light under a bushel? Why aren’t you shouting this wonderful news from the house-tops? Have I not told you that miracles beyond the power of Nature to produce are the best possible proof of the existence of God?”

Aquinas: there are no bad designs in Nature

There is a final reason why Anthony Mills’ attempt to recruit Aquinas in support of Darwinism is doomed to failure. According to Aquinas, every kind of living thing God that produced in the natural world is perfectly designed for the biological ends that God intends it to realize.

“All of God’s works are perfect,” where the word “perfect” is defined in relation to each creature’s proper ends. “Perfect” does not mean “optimal,” but it does mean “free from flaws in its design.” For instance, the vertebrate eye, whose proper end is seeing, is perfect for that job, because God made it with unsurpassable wisdom and goodness. Hence according to Aquinas, there are no bad designs in nature.

In his Summa Theologica I, q. 91, a. 1, Aquinas addresses the question: Whether the Body of the First Man Was Made of the Slime of the Earth? His response begins as follows:

I answer that, As God is perfect in His works, He bestowed perfection on all of them according to their capacity: “God’s works are perfect” (Deut. 32:4).

In his Summa Theologica I, q. 91, art. 3, St. Thomas asks whether the body of (the first) man was given an apt disposition. After listing three objections to the design of the human body (which he would later refute), Aquinas responds as follows:

On the contrary, It is written (Ecclesiastes 7:30): “God made man right.”

I answer that, All natural things were produced by the Divine art, and so may be called God’s works of art. Now every artist intends to give to his work the best disposition; not absolutely the best, but the best as regards the proposed end; and even if this entails some defect, the artist cares not: thus, for instance, when man makes himself a saw for the purpose of cutting, he makes it of iron, which is suitable for the object in view; and he does not prefer to make it of glass, though this be a more beautiful material, because this very beauty would be an obstacle to the end he has in view. Therefore God gave to each natural being the best disposition; not absolutely so, but in the view of its proper end.

Aquinas cites the Biblical verse, “God’s works are perfect” (Deuteronomy 32:4) fifteen times in his Summa Theologica, and the Biblical verse, “God made man right” (Ecclesiastes 7:30) no less than four times.

The inadequacies of Mr. Mills’ grounds for theism

Anthony Mills writes that “if you profess your religion from within the gaps of scientific knowledge, you will inevitably get crushed as those gaps close.” But as we have just seen, the gaps are not shrinking, but growing: the impossibility of life’s spontaneous generation from inanimate matter would have been a complete surprise to Aquinas and Aristotle, as would the scientific evidence for the universe’s having had a beginning.

Mr. Mills is alarmed at the notion – which he mistakenly ascribes to Protestant fundamentalism – that the evidence for design in Nature could be falsified by science, and he rejects as utterly wrong-headed the view that scientific arguments for design can only succeed to the extent that scientific explanations fail. However, Intelligent Design theory does not claim that the high degree of specified complexity we find in living things constitutes the only evidence for design in Nature. Nor does Intelligent Design claim that an act of Divine intervention was required to produce the various life-forms we see on Earth today; indeed, there are ID proponents who propose that the initial conditions of the universe were fine-tuned by the Creator in order to generate life in all its diversity, without the need for any miracles – a view known as “front-loading.” In any case, it is surely true that scientific discoveries can strengthen the evidence for design in Nature. For instance, the evidence for cosmic fine-tuning was unknown 50 years ago. It would be difficult to deny that this discovery has boosted the argument that the cosmos was designed by an Intelligent Creator.

Mr. Mills prefers a different approach to theology, in which God sits outside the created order, and maintains it in being (emphasis mine):

Darwin only showed that biology — as opposed, say, to metaphysics, theology, or ethics — should dispense with “final causes,” as physics did in Newton’s day. This just frees biologists from the need to answer such purpose-questions, leaving the rest of us (non-scientists) free to wrestle with them, if we choose.

God gives rise to and sustains existence, suffusing it with meaning — whether or not man came from fish, ape, or stardust and whether or not the laws governing that evolution are probabilistic.

Now, I may be reading Mills uncharitably here, but he appears to be saying that whether or not we believe in God, in the end, comes down to how we choose to view the world – which is quite different from the traditional Catholic view that “God, the source and end of all things, can be known with certainty from the consideration of created things, by the natural power of human reason.” On Mills’ account, we can choose to view the world as “charged with the grandeur of God,” in the words of Gerard Manley Hopkins, or we may see it as nothing more than “Nature red in tooth and claw,” in the memorable phrase of the poet Alfred Lord Tennyson, a believer who continually wrestled with his own theological doubts.

If I am reading Mills aright, what he is saying is that in the end, the decision to see meaning in the world is an act of choice. We can see the world as suffused with meaning if we choose to. However, most contemporary scientists will proudly declare, with Laplace, “Sire, I have no need of that hypothesis.”

It is precisely in order to shake these scientists out of their complacency that the Intelligent Design movement exists. While it takes no official stand on the nature and identity of the Creator, the Intelligent Design movement will continue to fearlessly highlight the evidence for design in Nature, at both the cosmological and biological levels.

Comments
rhampton7: Many long arguments are caused by lack of common terminology. I have been pleading with you adopt a common meaning of the term "the Church." When I speak of the term "the Church" in the context of doctrine, when I speak of "the teaching of the Church" "what the Church says" etc. I mean *official positions on doctrine taken by individuals or bodies within the church who have the authority to pronounce upon doctrine*. You, on the other hand, jump all over the place, taking quotations and paraphrases from everything from official documents to the opinions of European Catholic scientists with poor training in theology, to the opinion of American parish priests with no academic expertise in science/theology studies, to the opinions of various lay people, and using any or all of them as examples of what "the Church" teaches. Example: "The use of Father Longenecker’s quote is to show that the Church is not resolved to one specific scientific explanation of human origins. Do you deny Father Longenecker point? I rather doubt it." Father Longenecker may properly grant that there is more than one opinion on this or that. I may well agree with him. What I object to is not Fr. Longenecker per se, but that you use him to show what "the Church" is resolved or not resolved about. Fr. Longenecker does not speak for "the Church." Fr. Longenecker speaks for Fr. Longenecker. "The Church" does not mean "some blogging Catholic priest somewhere." In connection with this, you often give long quotations without attribution, which has the effect of concealing which statements are official statements of the Catholic Church, and which statements are merely the private opinion (however learned) of individuals who happen to be Catholics. If you would get in the habit of always providing a source for a quotation, and always distinguishing the kind of statement you are offering, e.g., the private rumination of a Pope speaking as a man or scholar versus the official proclamation of a Pope speaking as head of the Church, the private opinion of an American astronomer-priest who works for the Vatican, etc., your words would go down here a lot easier. As it is, it often looks as if you are passing off the opinions of Catholics who agree with you as THE teaching of THE CHURCH, rather than the opinions of individual Catholics, which after all may be largely or entirely wrong or even heretical. I've made this point several times. You've not adequately responded to it. This is the last time I will make it as such length and with such explicitness. And until you do respond to it, and agree to clean up your terminology and quoting practice, there is little to be gained by conversing with you on the subject "what the Church teaches."Timaeus
June 24, 2014
June
06
Jun
24
24
2014
09:16 PM
9
09
16
PM
PDT
You may as well assert that evil can only exist because God made it so.
That's certainly true in this sense; Evil only exists because God desired to create human beings with free will. The acts of evil were part of God's plan. This does not mean, however, that God is the author of evil or guides us to evil even though that is what God's design decreed and all of Creation is guided. Calvinists can't square that circle, Catholics can
But why did God not create a world so perfect that no evil could exist in it? With infinite power God could always create something better. But with infinite wisdom and goodness God freely willed to create a world "in a state of journeying" towards its ultimate perfection... In time we can discover that God in his almighty providence can bring a good from the consequences of an evil, even a moral evil, caused by his creatures: "It was not you", said Joseph to his brothers, "who sent me here, but God. . . You meant evil against me; but God meant it for good, to bring it about that many people should be kept alive." From the greatest moral evil ever committed - the rejection and murder of God's only Son, caused by the sins of all men - God, by his grace that "abounded all the more", brought the greatest of goods: the glorification of Christ and our redemption. But for all that, evil never becomes a good. We firmly believe that God is master of the world and of its history. But the ways of his providence are often unknown to us. Only at the end, when our partial knowledge ceases, when we see God "face to face", will we fully know the ways by which - even through the dramas of evil and sin - God has guided his creation to that definitive sabbath rest for which he created heaven and earth.
rhampton7
June 24, 2014
June
06
Jun
24
24
2014
09:04 PM
9
09
04
PM
PDT
StephenB, Are your decisions designed by God or by you? How can you exercise true free will and still be under God's sovereignty? Catholicism doesn't see one as contradicting the other. God does not need to guide you - that is, remove your freedom - for his design to succeed. If God's sovereignty can handle the excesses of free will without jeopardizing his plan, it can certainly handle the much more modest contingency of nature. I don't know what else can be said. Perhaps you would be more persuasive if you took up the question I asked of Timaeus.
why not supply evidence that the Church, as it exists today (or at least since Vatican II) teaches that randomness is beyond God’s sovereignty or that nature has no dynamic freedom, or that true contingency does not exist. To put it another way, show me that the Church teaches a material determinism (but not spiritual) like that of Laplace’s demon.
rhampton7
June 24, 2014
June
06
Jun
24
24
2014
08:40 PM
8
08
40
PM
PDT
Mung, it's important to note that the Catholic Encylopedia was published in 1911, before Humani Generis, Fides et Ratio, Communion & Stewardship: Human Persons Created in the Image of God, before Vatican II and the Pontifical Academy of Sciences conference on "Scientific Insights into the Evolution of the Universe and of Life" and "The Emergence of the Human Being":
Bishop Marcelo Sanchez Sorondo, the science academy's chancellor, told the group that scientific truths are part of divine truth and "can help philosophy and theology understand ever more fully the status and future of the human person." ...Bishop Sanchez said the evolutionary laws of heredity and genetic mutation pose no conflict to the Catholic faith and offer a biological explanation for the development of species on earth. However, he said, the beginning of the universe, "the transition from nothing to being," is not a mutation; God is the first cause of creation and being. "In this first transcendent origin of the human being we should in fact admit the direct participation of God," which also occurs with each conception of human life, he said. Human beings are not just biological creatures, but spiritual, too, whose "incorruptible soul," he said, "requires a creative act of God."
rhampton7
June 24, 2014
June
06
Jun
24
24
2014
08:17 PM
8
08
17
PM
PDT
rhampton7:
Randomness can only exist because God made it so.
You may as well assert that evil can only exist because God made it so.Mung
June 24, 2014
June
06
Jun
24
24
2014
08:04 PM
8
08
04
PM
PDT
SB: According to Darwinism, design is an illusion and cannot, therefore, be perceived; according to Catholic doctrine, design is real and perceptible. Which is your position? rhampton 7
You have conflated the issue in a way that I don’t believe VJT or Timeaus have.
Both Timaeus and VTJ understand that Darwinists and Christian Darwinists reject the Biblical teaching that design, cosmological and biological, is real and perceptible. So, there is no division among us on that score.
The metaphysical position you attribute to Darwinism is not a scientific statement that can be derived from the Darwinian evolutionary theory.
According to the Bible and the Catholic Church, design in nature can be apprehended because God chose to reveal himself through his handiwork. That means that in any evolutionary scenario the order of events is critical: For Catholics, biological design must precedes the process. For Darwinists or Christian Darwinists, the process must precede the design (or, more precisely, the appearance of design). Either the design in nature is an illusion, in which case it comes late, or else it is real, in which case it comes early. In order to be a faithful Catholic, you must take the latter position.
Likewise, ID theory does not take a metaphysical position on the nature of the designer(s), though many proponents do.
No ID proponent believes that the scientific design inference reveals the nature of the designer. On the other hand, many ID proponents believe, independently of that inference, that the designer so indicated is God.
Catholic doctrine acknowledges that such a question is beyond science and appeals to higher ways of knowing.
Catholic Doctrine makes no such stipulation and would never be so presumptuous. You must learn to male the distinction between what the Catholic Church teaches and what some Catholic philosophers happen to think.
For Aquinas, God is at work in every operation of nature, but the autonomy of nature is not an indication of some reduction in God’s power or activity; rather, it is an indication of His goodness.
So now were back to Aquinas and the "autonomy of nature." Don't you realize that you have contradicted yourself yet again. You just acknowledged that Aquinas does not believe that nature is always autonomous, given his belief that God created man directly and not through secondary causes.
To ascribe to God (as first cause) all causal agency “eliminates the order of the universe, which is woven together through the order and connection of causes. For the first cause lends from the eminence of its goodness not only to other things that they are, but also that they are causes.
Who in the name of sense is ascribing to God all causal agency? Where are you getting all this nonsense? Believe me when I tell you that you are reading the wrong people. If you want to understand Catholicism, stay far away from them.
StephenB
June 24, 2014
June
06
Jun
24
24
2014
07:52 PM
7
07
52
PM
PDT
But maybe he got there from here, lol: X-Catholics: Saint Darwin?Mung
June 24, 2014
June
06
Jun
24
24
2014
07:34 PM
7
07
34
PM
PDT
Timaeus, you may have already figured this out, or it may have already been stated by rhampton7, the source appears to be the Catholic Encyclopedia. Home > Catholic Encyclopedia > E > Catholics and EvolutionMung
June 24, 2014
June
06
Jun
24
24
2014
07:28 PM
7
07
28
PM
PDT
Perhaps the most vocal critic of Scientism and Darwinism within the Vatican today, Christoph Cardinal Schönborn admits that randomness can be real in the scientific sense, but that Faith can see the outcome and understand it was all intended:
An oft-cited remark by George C. Simpson runs: “Man is the result of a purposeless and materialistic process that does not have him in mind. He was not planned.” If Simpson had said merely that no plan according to which mankind came about may be discerned using the purely quantitative-mechanical methods of scientific inquiry, then this assertion could be correct.
Of course Simpson is wrong because Science is limited and can not measure truths we know to be certain through faith and what Schönborn calls the "science of common experience."
The conscious limitation of its point of view to the countable and the measurable, to material conditions and interconnections, has permitted formidable advances of the natural sciences, allowing modern man to dominate and control nature for his own needs to an amazing extent. But it would be highly problematic if one wished to declare as simply nonexistent everything that is here being methodologically suppressed, starting with the faculties of reason and free will that permit this methodological choice to begin with.
Randomness can only exist because God made it so. Thus we can be certain that within God's sovereignty, random events could not help but fulfill God's plan:
We consider the world-picture drawn by modern science and ask why we have this laborious, complicated path of cosmic evolution. Why its countless trials and blind alleys, its billions of years of time and expansion of the universe? Why the gigantic explosions of supernovae, the cooking of the elements in the nuclear fusion of the stars, the excruciating grind of biological evolution with its endless start-ups and extinctions, its catastrophes and barbarities, right up to the unfathomable brutalities of life and survival to the present day? Does it not make more sense here to see the whole as the blind play of coincidences in an unplanned nature? Is this not more honest than the attempts at a theodicy of a Leibniz? Is it not more plausible simply to say, “Yes, the world is just that cruel”? One thing should be clear, and it requires a frankly theological explication: Let us not be excessively hasty in wanting to demonstrate “intelligent design” everywhere as a matter of apologetics. Like Job, we do not know the answer to suffering and chaos. We have been given only one answer”but that from God himself: The Logos, through whom and in whom everything was created, has assumed flesh; the cross is the key to God’s plan and decisions. As important and indispensable as renewed effort in matters of natural philosophy may be, the Word from the cross is God’s final Wisdom. For through his holy cross, he has reconciled the entire world. And the cross is the gate to the Resurrection. If the Resurrection of Christ is, as Pope Benedict said in his 2006 Easter Homily, the “explosion of love” that has dissolved the indissoluble network of “death and becoming,” then we may also say that this is the goal of evolution. We know its meaning from its end, its fulfillment. Even if it sometimes seems without goal or direction in its individual steps, the lengthy path has had a purpose toward Easter and from Easter onward. We gladly affirm the Christian understanding, derived from Greek and Jewish culture before, that unaided reason can attain basic knowledge of the purposes built into nature and the intelligence behind it. But it is only through God’s self-revelation in Christ, and our response of faith, that we can begin to glimpse the ultimate purpose of the cosmos and to trust in God’s provident care of all cosmic details. It is not that “the path is the goal.” Rather, the Resurrection and the Second Coming of the Lord are the purpose of the path.
rhampton7
June 24, 2014
June
06
Jun
24
24
2014
07:14 PM
7
07
14
PM
PDT
I concede that you do not accept the Catholic view of "guided" as truly guided, hence my use of another term. That's on you, though.
In fact, he argues *from first principles *
Yes, by way of Aristotle who also made mistakes. The conclusions of philosophy must rectify with science where they intersect. Had Aquinas access to modern scientific knowledge, I sincerely doubt he would have made the same claims. In any event, Thomism is not Catholicism and the Church has continued to develop its theology. That Aquinas made certain erroneous claims does not beholden the Church to accept or reject Thomism in the absolute. The use of Father Longenecker's quote is to show that the Church is not resolved to one specific scientific explanation of human origins. Do you deny Father Longenecker point? I rather doubt it. Lastly, why not supply evidence that the Church, as it exists today (or at least since Vatican II) teaches that randomness is beyond God's sovereignty or that nature has no dynamic freedom, or that true contingency does not exist. To put it another way, show me that the Church teaches a material determinism (but not spiritual) like that of Laplace's demon.
Chance is not something which escapes God's control, nor something which opposes Him or contains within itself its final explanation: "If chance cannot be explained, the life of individuals would be submerged in disorder. On the other hand, if one admits that there can be a universal Cause of the world, this Cause must be responsible for everything that exists, including chance. 'And thus it turns out that everything that happens, if referred to the First Divine Cause, is ordered and does not exist accidentally, even if some can be called per accidens in their relation to other causes' (Thomas Aquinas, In VI Metaph., lect. 3)" (Sanguineti, 1986, p. 239). We may observe, finally, that the same idea is found in the Catechism of the Catholic Church, expressed in a more theological language: "God is the sovereign master of his plan. But to carry it out he also makes use of his creatures' cooperation. This use is not a sign of weakness, but rather a token of almighty God's greatness and goodness. For God grants his creatures not only their existence, but also the dignity of acting on their own, of being causes and principles for each other, and thus of cooperating in the accomplishment of his plan" (CCC 306).
rhampton7
June 24, 2014
June
06
Jun
24
24
2014
05:18 PM
5
05
18
PM
PDT
rhampton7: Thanks for conceding that "guided" was not a good choice of words, and for admitting outright (though it took much prodding) that you think Aquinas was simply wrong about some matters. When you get to the next epistemological level, you might become capable of seeing that Aquinas's "mistake" regarding the generation of higher animals was not derived from some mere empirical error, some lack of knowledge of the facts due to his 13th-century era. In fact, he argues *from first principles* on the matter, and his argument employs the same terminology and the same sort of reasoning he uses all throughout his work. So your critique of Aquinas could not be merely on the level of empirical science; it would have to be a critique of faulty metaphysics and epistemology on Aquinas's part -- at least in the passages in question. Your notion of Catholic doctrine over time is amusing. It seems to me to resemble the teaching of Big Brother: the falsehood of yesterday is the truth of today. For you, good Catholics will prefer today's theology to yesterday's theology, on the assumption that all change in doctrine is guaranteed by some invisible hand to be change for the better. But in fact, not all changes in ideas, in theology or any other field, mark progress. Sometimes change is just error or intellectual confusion. Sometimes it is due to caving in to worldly pressures. You're getting pretty desperate when you rest your case on the views of "Father Longenecker" -- a real household word in Catholic theology, to be sure. Your quotation about "Fate" is not relevant to my argument, as I have not upheld the things it seems to be attacking. In fact, I agree with some of the things that it says. It understands divine foreknowledge quite well. But it has nothing to do with the issue Vincent and I and others are raising, which is not about how foreknowledge works, but about God's control over his creation. You have forgotten that Boethius's account of foreknowledge does justice only to the "Greek" side of God; you fail utterly to deal with the "Hebraic" side -- as do many of your allegedly "Thomist" allies. God is not just a foreknower but a creator. He creates the world whose outcomes he foreknows. It is not your doctrine of foreknowledge, but of creation, which is faulty. But I despair of correcting it. You won't undertake the formal theological training required to learn how to argue these things with accuracy and care. You are determined to play the autodidact who teaches himself theology off the internet.Timaeus
June 24, 2014
June
06
Jun
24
24
2014
04:39 PM
4
04
39
PM
PDT
According to Darwinism, design is an illusion and cannot, therefore, be perceived; according to Catholic doctrine, design is real and perceptible. Which is your position?
You have conflated the issue in a way that I don't believe VJT or Timeaus have. The metaphysical position you attribute to Darwinism is not a scientific statement that can be derived from the Darwinian evolutionary theory. Likewise, ID theory does not take a metaphysical position on the nature of the designer(s), though many proponents do. Catholic doctrine acknowledges that such a question is beyond science and appeals to higher ways of knowing.
So why hold with a Darwinist scheme that is based on materialistic philosophy and the proposition that everything can be reduced to chance and necessity?
You could just as easily make the charge that science reduces everything to the four fundamental forces: electromagnetism, strong interaction, weak interaction, and gravitation. From a Catholic perspective, that's obviously not true. However, that does not make the existence of the four forces false. Likewise not everything is chance and necessity, yet that does not deny the reality of chance and necessity.
For Aquinas, God is at work in every operation of nature, but the autonomy of nature is not an indication of some reduction in God's power or activity; rather, it is an indication of His goodness. To ascribe to God (as first cause) all causal agency "eliminates the order of the universe, which is woven together through the order and connection of causes. For the first cause lends from the eminence of its goodness not only to other things that they are, but also that they are causes."
rhampton7
June 24, 2014
June
06
Jun
24
24
2014
04:38 PM
4
04
38
PM
PDT
Rhampton 7 to Timaeus
You do not understand the Catholic idea of God sustaining the universe and everything within as a continuous act of Will, motivated by Love. That’s how things are ‘guided’ (dependent would be a better term) without being dictated — continually existing and acting given their natures (such as randomness or free will).
You do not understand the Catholic idea of God’s sustaining activity. God's creative act explains the coming into being of a process; God’s sustaining act (or actions) explain(s) its continuing existence. Neither kind of act explains the nature of the process or its output, both of which are products of design.
Aquinas [was wrong that God created the higher animals directly.
I am glad that you finally understand that Aquinas (unlike Darwin) did not teach that life was solely a product of secondary causality and did not, as you seem to think, define Divine causality exclusively as secondary causality. Now, perhaps you will stop trying to misrepresent Thomism and Divine causality as something that can be reconciled with Darwinism.
But what was once suspicious is now accepted. The Church is not stagnant, so to hold onto a view of the Church from 1870 or 1940 is wrong. Revelation is ongoing, especially natural revelation.
The Church does not change its teachings on matters that relate to Scriptural truths. According to Darwinism, design is an illusion and cannot, therefore, be perceived; according to Catholic doctrine, design is real and perceptible. Which is your position?
The Second Vatican Council expressed a very different conviction. The Constitution Gaudium et Spes affirms: “If methodical investigation within every branch of learning is carried out in accord with moral norms, it never truly conflicts with faith. For earthly matters and the concerns of the faith derive from the same God. Indeed whoever labors to penetrate the secrets of reality with a humble and steady mind, even though he is unaware of the fact, is nevertheless being led by the hand of God, who holds all things in existence, and gives them their identity” (GS 36).
Finally, you cite an authoritative source. Thank you. Yes, science, properly understood, cannot be in conflict with faith, properly understood. However, we all already knew that. We didn’t need to be told.
To think of nature as only chance or necessity, either working exclusively or together, demeans the plan and presence of God.
OK, good. So what other factor could be in play? How about design?
It is clear that the truth of faith about creation is radically opposed to the theories of materialistic philosophy. These view the cosmos as the result of an evolution of matter reducible to pure chance and necessity.
Agreed. So why hold with a Darwinist scheme that is based on materialistic philosophy and the proposition that everything can be reduced to chance and necessity?StephenB
June 24, 2014
June
06
Jun
24
24
2014
04:12 PM
4
04
12
PM
PDT
You also ignore the history of Roman suspicions of evolution
. Yes, that is true to a degree. But what was once suspicious is now accepted. The Church is not stagnant, so to hold onto a view of the Church from 1870 or 1940 is wrong. Revelation is ongoing, especially natural revelation:
The Second Vatican Council expressed a very different conviction. The Constitution Gaudium et Spes affirms: "If methodical investigation within every branch of learning is carried out in accord with moral norms, it never truly conflicts with faith. For earthly matters and the concerns of the faith derive from the same God. Indeed whoever labors to penetrate the secrets of reality with a humble and steady mind, even though he is unaware of the fact, is nevertheless being led by the hand of God, who holds all things in existence, and gives them their identity" (GS 36).
More on sovereignty. To think of nature as only chance or necessity, either working exclusively or together, demeans the plan and presence of God.
The first is the way in which research itself, be it great or small, carried out with extreme rigor, always leaves an opening for further questions in an endless process which reveals in reality an immensity, a harmony, and a finality which cannot be explained in terms of causality or through scientific resources alone... God's love is a disinterested love. It aims solely at this: that the good comes into existence, endures and develops according to its own dynamism. God the Creator is he "who accomplishes all things according to the counsel of his will" (Eph 1:11). The whole work of creation belongs to the plan of salvation, "the mystery hidden for ages in God who created all things" (Eph 3:9). Through the act of the creation of the world, and especially of man, the plan of salvation begins to be realized. Creation is the work of a loving Wisdom, as Sacred Scripture mentions on several occasions (cf. e.g., Prov 8:22-36). It is clear that the truth of faith about creation is radically opposed to the theories of materialistic philosophy. These view the cosmos as the result of an evolution of matter reducible to pure chance and necessity.
By God's transcendence he has sovereignty over the contingent and the free. Chance and necessity are not pure, distinct, separate, uncontrollable forces. They exist and are dynamic only because God wills it.rhampton7
June 24, 2014
June
06
Jun
24
24
2014
11:54 AM
11
11
54
AM
PDT
Timaeus, You do not understand the Catholic idea of God sustaining the universe and everything within as a continuous act of Will, motivated by Love. That's how things are 'guided' (dependent would be a better term) without being dictated -- continually existing and acting given their natures (such as randomness or free will). Further, sovereignty is not a master-slave relationship, or a clockwork affair. Love drives the necessity of freedom within this universe, be it randomness or free will.
Fate though God knows from all eternity everything that is going to happen, He does not will everything. Sin He does not will in any sense; He only permits it. Certain things He wills absolutely and others conditionally, and His general supervision, whereby these decrees are carried out, is called Divine Providence. As God is a free agent, the order of nature is not necessary in the sense that it could not have been otherwise than it is. It is only necessary in so far as it works according to definite uniform laws and is predetermined by a decree which, though absolute, was nevertheless free... It follows from what has been said that, in the Catholic view, the idea of fate--St. Thomas dislikes the word--must lack the note of absolute necessity, since God's decrees are free, while it preserves the character of relative necessity inasmuch as such decrees, when once passed, cannot be gainsaid. Moreover, God knows what is going to happen because it is going to happen, and not vice versa. Hence the futurity of an event is a logical, but not a physical, consequence of God's foreknowledge.
Aquinas made more than one error, of course. He was human and lived prior to many important scientific discoveries. He was wrong about spontaneous generation, and he was wrong that God created the higher animals directly. As for Man, the Church holds that our souls are created directly and immediately by God, not by any act of reproduction. Further, that Adam and Eve were real historical people, but that does not lead to a single conclusion about human origins. As Father Longenecker explains:
you don't have to believe all that about Adam and Eve [only two people in the world who lived in a garden somewhere around Iraq about six thousand years ago] to be a good Catholic. All you have to believe is that there was, somewhere at some point in time a man and a woman who were our first parents and that they made a monumental choice to disobey God. My own theory is that there were other human-type creatures on earth, but that Adam and Eve were the first specially created humans with souls, with free will and perhaps the first with language. They were the first to have a relationship with God, and therefore the first parents of all who believe. Did they live in a garden? Were they naked? Did they talk to a snake? Did they eat an apple? Was there a tree of the knowledge of good and evil? I'm not saying there wasn't, but it is possible to believe that most of these elements of the story are symbolic, but that the essential story is that a specially created man and woman lived on the earth in a state of child-like innocence and bliss-that they had a unique relationship with God which they spoiled by disobedience. The rest of the details can remain open ended. You may believe it all literally, but you needn't.
rhampton7
June 24, 2014
June
06
Jun
24
24
2014
10:44 AM
10
10
44
AM
PDT
rhampton7, footnote to 81 above: In your post 7 above, you quote (with apparent endorsement) a Catholic scientist as rejecting the notion that God directs events through "Steering type" interventions. But then you say in 80 that Darwinian processes are "guided." In everyday English, there is no clear difference between "steering" and "guiding"; one can "steer" a boat into dock, or "guide" a boat into dock, and the same thing is meant. So unless you are using some refined, special set of distinct meanings for "steer" and "guide" your remarks are inconsistent with each other. I am also astounded that you, and many of your sources, including some theologians who should know better, seem to slop together divine foreknowledge and divine decision or determination. The clash between alleged "truly random" events and Christian theology does not spring from God's foreknowledge; events could be as "truly random" as you like, and God -- if he has foreknowledge -- would still know them. The clash comes from the assertion that there are events that are "truly random" and the assertion of God's sovereignty over all events. Much detail is needed to sort out the latter conflict, but the key thing to note is that foreknowledge is not, and has never been, the problem in discussion about Darwin and Darwinism. You continue to cherry-pick, selecting certain statements from JP II and certain unofficial statements of Benedict, while ignoring other official statements of Benedict, such as have been pointed out here. You also ignore the history of Roman suspicions of evolution, which go back to 1870 at least. You paint a rosy picture in which the Catholic Church has always been quite happy with evolution as long as evolution is separated from atheism and materialism, when in fact part of the intellectual agony over evolution is uncertainty about how far *certain* accounts of evolution can be separated from atheism and materialism. You don't see Catholic theologians agonizing over whether Newton's laws can be compatible with Christian faith; but they have agonized over whether or not the specifically Darwinian way of thinking about evolution is compatible with Christian faith. This historical fact is completely glossed over in your rosy picture of the Darwin/Church question. You would like to believe that there is not now and never was any tension felt by Popes and leading theologians of the Church between Darwin and Christian theology, and you let what you would like to believe guide your historiography (if a loose-joined volley of quotations from all over the map can be called a genuine historiography).Timaeus
June 24, 2014
June
06
Jun
24
24
2014
07:42 AM
7
07
42
AM
PDT
rhampton7 @ 80: The first quotation in 80 is not attributed to anyone. The author should be explicitly stated. It is bad scholarship not to name the source. I notice that the words of Suarez are in boldface type. Are they so in the original quotation? You seem to be offering the statement of Suarez as a certainty, a given, a "principle of the Christian interpretation of nature"; but who made Suarez's PERSONAL OPINION into a Christian principle? Where has *the Church*, as opposed to any individual theologian, declared it doctrine that "God does not interfere directly with the natural order, where secondary causes suffice to produce the intended effect"? This "principle" is straight Enlightenment philosophy, nothing at all to do with Christian faith. This is betrayed by the language of God's "interfering" with the natural order, as if the natural order has some rights of its own, such that the direct involvement of God would be a violation of a treaty agreement, or at least a rude impertinence. This conception of "interfering" with nature is not at all Biblical; it comes to us from people like Hume. In the Biblical view, God's direct involvement with nature is not thought of as "interference" at all. Finally, what does "Darwinian processes are guided but not forced" mean? What do you mean by "guided"? "Guided" in the normal use of the word suggests personal involvement, what people would call "interference" or (with a more neutral connotation) "intervention," yet your subsequent discussion is strongly against intervention when it comes to origins. So is your use of "guided" here merely unclear, or deliberately ambiguous? Finally, as I tire of your dancing around the question of Aquinas (your quoting him as unimpeachable authority one moment, yet telling us that he is not identical with Catholic teaching the next) I ask you directly: did Aquinas make an *error* when he said that God created man and the higher animals directly, and not through secondary causes? Never mind what he might have said had he lived today. Are his statements, as they stand, factual *errors* about origins? Are you saying he was *wrong* about those things, and that both modern natural science and Catholic theology *should override his teaching* at that point?Timaeus
June 24, 2014
June
06
Jun
24
24
2014
03:23 AM
3
03
23
AM
PDT
StephenB,
In any case, when these authors attribute to Aquinas the idea that guided evolution can also be a radically contingent, Darwinian process, which by definition, is an unguided process
Darwinian processes are guided but not forced. "Radical" contingency is known to God, for it was God who granted the Universe with such a nature. You insist on making this mistake and then attributing it to the Church, but I believe yours is an honest mistake. You seem to believe that Thomism IS Catholicism, rather than it being an important development WITHIN Catholicism. Contingent processes, as Science and the Church have learned, includes quantum indeterminacy and general relativity, which Aquinas was not privileged to know. Regardless, God granted nature a freedom to act via secondary causes - meaning God does not need to force or intervene in those outcomes.
Passing now to the theory of evolution as a philosophical speculation, the history of the plant and animal kingdoms upon our globe is but a small part of the history of the entire earth. Similarly, the geological development of our earth constitutes but a small part of the history of the solar system and of the universe. The theory of evolution as a philosophical conception considers the entire history of the cosmos as an harmonious development, brought about by natural laws. This conception is in agreement with the Christian view of the universe. God is the Creator of heaven and earth. If God produced the universe by a single creative act of His will, then its natural development by laws implanted in it by the Creator is to the greater glory of His Divine power and wisdom. St. Thomas says: "The potency of a cause is the greater, the more remote the effects to which it extends." (Summa c. Gent., III, c. lxxvi); and Francisco Suárez: "God does not interfere directly with the natural order, where secondary causes suffice to produce the intended effect" (De opere sex dierum, II, c. x, n. 13). In the light of this principle of the Christian interpretation of nature, the history of the animal and vegetable kingdoms on our planet is, as it were, a versicle in a volume of a million pages in which the natural development of the cosmos is described, and upon whose title-page is written: "In the beginning God created heaven and earth."
Nothing can thwart God, not even our free will. God is perfect, immutable, so too his plan. So Yes, Judas's betrayal was part of God's plan. Again, that's standard Catholicism.
Pope Benedict XVI The people of Jerusalem and their leaders did not acknowledge Christ, yet, by condemning him to death, they fulfilled the words of the prophets (cf. Acts 13:27). Human evil and ignorance simply cannot thwart the divine plan of salvation and redemption. Evil is simply incapable of that.
rhampton7
June 23, 2014
June
06
Jun
23
23
2014
08:01 PM
8
08
01
PM
PDT
rhampton 7
Divine causality can be active in a process that is both contingent and guided. Any evolutionary mechanism that is contingent can only be contingent because God made it so.
You are, of course, quoting from “Communion and Stewardship.” Perhaps you are unaware of the fact that the authors of this document are putting words in Aquinas’ mouth. The Angelic Doctor did not say anything like that. Here is the correct quote from the ST:
“The effect of divine providence is not only that things should happen somehow, but that they should happen either by necessity or by contingency. Therefore, whatsoever divine providence ordains to happen infallibly and of necessity happens infallibly and of necessity; and that happens from contingency, which the divine providence conceives to happen from contingency”
You will notice that there is nothing in these passages about a contingent process or a contingent evolutionary mechanism. Aquinas is, in this context, likely referring to the contingent activity of humans, that is, human activity that appears to be (though not necessarily is) brought about luck or chance. In other words, some things happen by necessity (guided evolution) and some things happen by contingency (apparent human accidents). It is also important to understand that chance can be claimed to exist in two ways, ontologically and epistemologically. Ontological chance suggests that chance and luck really exist and can explain some events, while epistemological chance rejects such notions, saying that what seems like chance is really ignorance of other true causes. Thus, it is important to know exactly what someone means when they use word like, chance, randomness, or contingency. This is true for ID as well. In any case, when these authors attribute to Aquinas the idea that guided evolution can also be a radically contingent, Darwinian process, which by definition, is an unguided process, they are simply not telling truth. Equally important, they are not promoting Catholic Doctrine. On the contrary, they are militating against it. SB: “with respect to the evolutionary process and its outcome, the issue is less about God’s ability to know what will happen and more about his decision to make it happen.”
Yes, hence my repeated reference to God knowledge of contingency (which includes randomness).
God’s knowledge of contingency has absolutely nothing to do with the outcome of evolution, which is solely a product of God’s actions. ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- With respect to Judas and free will, I would say this: It was not part of God’s original plan that Judas would sin, but he did plan around Judas’ sin. God’s original plan and intent was that no man would sin. On the other hand, because God is omniscient, He knew that Judas (and Adam and me and one third of the angels) would sin, which means that His original plan was thwarted, and He knew that it would be thwarted. His plan of salvation was His supernaturally noble reaction in advance of the fact (this seems to put God in time, but it helps make the point). This also means that God knew about the cross of salvation even before (again, speaking symbolically, not literally, as if time was in play) He made His first creature. So, he planned around these tragedies. He created me knowing that I would cause Him to be crucified. Remarkable!StephenB
June 23, 2014
June
06
Jun
23
23
2014
07:04 PM
7
07
04
PM
PDT
Free will is not just the freedom to choose, but the freedom to sin. Randomness, indeed any contingency of Nature, is merely the freedom to move from one possibility to another. So I agree that nature does not have free will, for it can not sin.rhampton7
June 23, 2014
June
06
Jun
23
23
2014
11:16 AM
11
11
16
AM
PDT
with respect to the evolutionary process and its outcome, the issue is less about God’s ability to know what will happen and more about his decision to make it happen.”
Yes, hence my repeated reference to God knowledge of contingency (which includes randomness).
Divine causality can be active in a process that is both contingent and guided. Any evolutionary mechanism that is contingent can only be contingent because God made it so.
Which is developed from Aquinas:
Nothing hinders certain things happening by luck or by chance, if compared to their proximate causes: but not if compared to Divine Providence, whereby "nothing happens at random in the world," as Augustine says.
So randomness, as measured within this universe, is true. We can only study proximate causation, thus we can only prove, by science, that randomness exists. None the less, by faith we know that God made randomness on purpose, and thus randomness and all its outcomes are know to, and planned for by God. God's will in maintaining randomness, like the rest of the universe, is continuous and active, so it can never be properly understood as God relinquishing his power or authority. That nature has a kind of freedom does not require God to force outcomes.
you believe God’s knowledge of Judas’ betrayal of Jesus is logically prior to His plan to redeem fallen humanity, and that the sinful act of Judas is the means God intends to use to accomplish this end
. Not just I, but the Church believes this. As I said, this is standard Catholicism.
In classifying the objects of Divine omniscience the most obvious and fundamental distinction is between things that actually exist at any time, and those that are merely possible. And it is in reference to these two classes of objects that the distinction is made between knowledge "of vision" and "of simple intelligence"; the former referring to things actual, and the latter to the merely possible. This distinction might appear at first sight to be absolutely comprehensive and adequate to the purpose for which we introduce distinctions at all, but some difficulty is felt once the question is raised of God's knowledge of the acts of creatures endowed with free will. That God knows infallibly and from eternity what, for example, a certain man, in the exercise of free will, will do or actually does in any given circumstances, and what he might or would actually have done in different circumstances is beyond doubt — being a corollary from the eternal actuality of Divine knowledge. So to speak, God has not to wait on the contingent and temporal event of the man's free choice to know what the latter's action will be; He knows it from eternity. But the difficulty is: how, from our finite point of view, to interpret and explain the mysterious manner of God's knowledge of such events without at the same time sacrificing the free will of the creature.
The "How" being a debate between the Dominicans/Thomists and the Jesuits/Molinists. Regardless of your opinion, however:
Whichever way we turn we are bound ultimately to encounter a mystery, and, when there is a question of choosing between a theory which refers the mystery to God Himself and one which only saves the truth of human freedom by making free-will itself a mystery, most theologians naturally prefer the former alternative.
rhampton7
June 23, 2014
June
06
Jun
23
23
2014
11:12 AM
11
11
12
AM
PDT
rhampton7, I'm genuinely puzzled by your response in #73 above. You say that I have understood you correctly, as holding that although God did not dictate Judas’ betrayal of Jesus, He planned it nonetheless. But then you go on to say: "do not confuse the permission God grants us to exercise Free Will as his dictation of our actions," adding that if He dictated our actions, "God would be responsible for our sins." You then write:
So even with free will there is nothing that any man (or randomness) can possibly do that would surprise God, for he is omniscient. And God’s plan necessarily included the knowledge, and outcome, of every choice made (as well as those not chosen), as well as all randomness.
I think you misunderstand the proper usage of the word "plan." When you plan something to happen, you obviously intend it to happen. If God planned Judas' betrayal of Jesus, then He intended it to happen, which means that He intends a sinful act to happen. Do you really want to say that? You seem to confirm this interpretation when you add that "God’s plan necessarily included the knowledge, and outcome, of every choice made (as well as those not chosen), as well as all randomness," which suggests that you believe God's knowledge of Judas' betrayal of Jesus is logically prior to His plan to redeem fallen humanity, and that the sinful act of Judas is the means God intends to use to accomplish this end. As I have written, I believe that God in no way intends sinful acts. If God planned to redeem humanity, then He must have had a plan to redeem it which did not involve anyone sinning. He may have also had various "back-up plans" (or contingency plans) for accomplishing His goal if His original plan was thwarted, but He could not have intended from the outset to proceed via these paths. His plan to redeem humanity via Judas' betrayal must therefore have been logically (not temporally) subsequent to His knowledge of Judas' treacherous act, which in turn was logically (not temporally) subsequent to the act of betrayal itself. Finally, you write:
Frankly, I’m surprise that you are surprised by this. This is standard Catholicism – even the staunch Thomist Reginald Garrigou-Lagrange believed this to be true despite his rejection of Molinism.
I read Reginald Garrigou-Lagrange back in the early eighties. I can still remember his line: "God determining or determined: there is no alternative." I take the latter horn, of course, as I adopt a Boethian view of God's foreknowledge. Garrigou-Lagrange was a Bannezian: he believed God predestines everything that happens, including Satan's fall - a view held by only a handful of Dominicans within the Catholic Church, and very hard to square with the decrees of the Council of Trent, as the Catholic Encyclopedia correctly notes at the end of its article on Predestination. Regarding evolution, StephenB formulates the issue well: "with respect to the evolutionary process and its outcome, the issue is less about God’s ability to know what will happen and more about his decision to make it happen."vjtorley
June 21, 2014
June
06
Jun
21
21
2014
08:57 PM
8
08
57
PM
PDT
rhampton 7
You may not agree with the “how” provided by Molinism, but the net result is that the Church does not view “true” randomness as an obstacle because the outcomes are planned for (but not forced).
Again, you are conflating human actions with nature's processes. Yes, human actions are "planned for" (not planned) insofar as allowances are made for them and they are not forced. Humans do have free will and God knows what they will do with it even before they do it. In that sense, God caused the existence of the human faculties by which those actions are taken, but He did not cause the actions themselves, though he knew about them in advance. There is no conflict between God's knowledge (sometimes referred to as "foreknowledge") and our capacity to make free choices. God's creatures are, themselves, causal agents even those they and their faculties were caused to exist. None of this has anything to do with an evolutionary process that may or may not be responsible for the form of man's physical existence, which was planned by God down to the very last detail. In that context, I notice that you still make no distinction between guided evolution and unguided evolution. Evolution, insofar as it can be reconciled with Church doctrine, does not have "free will" of any kind, either molinistic or Thomistic. Free will occurred after the arrival of man, not before. A physical maturation process does not, as is the case with humans, have any power to choose or control its final outcome. If evolution occurred, the outcome was, from a Catholic perspective, "forced" because only one outcome can reflect God's apriori intent.StephenB
June 21, 2014
June
06
Jun
21
21
2014
03:33 PM
3
03
33
PM
PDT
VJTorley:
Having perfect knowledge of a probabilistic occurrence is not enough, if one is planning to use one specific possible outcome of that occurrence, in order to bring about another event – e.g. using a random mutation in order to bring about the eventual emergence of human beings. The problem here is that in order for one’s plan to work infallibly, one’s knowledge of the outcome must be logically prior to the occurrence in question. And that can only be the case if one somehow determines the occurrence. Hence you must say that God determined the result of each “random” mutation that led to us.
VJ, thank you for an excellent response. Yes, with respect to the evolutionary process and its outcome, the issue is less about God's ability to know what will happen and more about his decision to make it happen.StephenB
June 21, 2014
June
06
Jun
21
21
2014
02:29 PM
2
02
29
PM
PDT
By the way, I was rather shocked by your statement that Protestants believe that “the only way for God to guarantee that Judas betrayed Jesus as he planned, was to dictate Judas’s response” (italics mine).
"Some Protestants" is what I wrote.
You obviously don’t believe God dictated Judas’ betrayal of Jesus, but you seem to be saying that God planned it nonetheless. Or have I misunderstood you?
You understood me correctly.
When you say “he,” are you referring to God or Judas?
God.
Surely you’re not seriously claiming that God planned for Judas to betray Jesus, are you?
Yes, but do not confuse the permission God grants us to exercise Free Will as his dictation of our actions. If that were true, then God would be responsible for our sins. So even with free will there is nothing that any man (or randomness) can possibly do that would surprise God, for he is omniscient. And God's plan necessarily included the knowledge, and outcome, of every choice made (as well as those not chosen), as well as all randomness. Frankly, I'm surprise that you are surprised by this. This is standard Catholicism - even the staunch Thomist Reginald Garrigou-Lagrange believed this to be true despite his rejection of Molinism.rhampton7
June 21, 2014
June
06
Jun
21
21
2014
02:29 PM
2
02
29
PM
PDT
rhampton7, Thanks for your post in #41 above, and my sincere apologies for not getting back to you sooner. I've been busy on a number of threads lately. You write:
Although interesting, I don’t see how a discussion of Compatabilist theories advances the argument I presented on behalf of my primary concern (the Church’s openness to the science of Darwinian evolution). I will say that I agree with Linda Zagzebski that “the apparent incompatibility of infallible divine foreknowledge and human free will” is really a special case of a much broader problem with temporal necessity. Hence my comment about randomness and free will being two sides of the same coin.
Actually, I've read some of Linda Zagzebski's articles on free will previously. She's a very good philosopher, and her writings is extremely lucid. However, I don't think the article you cite will help your case much. I agree with you that infallible divine foreknowledge and human free will are perfectly compatible, and that a proper understanding of temporal necessity can help resolve the problem of their apparent incompatibility. What I would maintain, however, is that infallible divine planning for some event X to happen requires God to determine that event. God can know events (including free choices and "random" natural occurrences) without determining them, but He cannot infallibly plan these events to happen without determining them. Hence if God infallibly planned the emergence of human beings, then He must have determined it to happen - in other words, He cannot have brought us into existence through processes that are inherently random and non-deterministic. In #65, you write:
The question answered here is not if randomness is “truly” random (that is debatable), but that should it be, it is known to God. To reframe the answer in the form it was actually considered; should radioactive decay be “truly” random and quantum states “truly” creatures of probabilities, God would still have perfect knowledge of them. The randomness of evolution, by comparison, is a trivial problem.
Having perfect knowledge of a probabilistic occurrence is not enough, if one is planning to use one specific possible outcome of that occurrence, in order to bring about another event - e.g. using a random mutation in order to bring about the eventual emergence of human beings. The problem here is that in order for one's plan to work infallibly, one's knowledge of the outcome must be logically prior to the occurrence in question. And that can only be the case if one somehow determines the occurrence. Hence you must say that God determined the result of each "random" mutation that led to us. You may say, if you like, that God determined these mutations by selecting one possible world from a vast array of alternative possibilities. But in that case, from a God's-eye perspective, the mutations in question are no longer random. That was the point I was trying to make earlier. By the way, I was rather shocked by your statement that Protestants believe that "the only way for God to guarantee that Judas betrayed Jesus as he planned, was to dictate Judas’s response" (italics mine). You obviously don't believe God dictated Judas' betrayal of Jesus, but you seem to be saying that God planned it nonetheless. Or have I misunderstood you? When you say "he," are you referring to God or Judas? Surely you're not seriously claiming that God planned for Judas to betray Jesus, are you?vjtorley
June 21, 2014
June
06
Jun
21
21
2014
01:03 PM
1
01
03
PM
PDT
Timaeus @69 Among those with whom we would interact, there are well-educated people, uneducated people, and badly educated people. The members in the third group do the most violence to the Church and society because their ideas are so disordered and their passion for change is so intense. As someone once said,” it ain’t what you don’t know that gets you in trouble, it’s what you know for sure that just ain’t so.” Rhampton 7 seems to fit this profile. Sadly, there are many like him in my church, the Catholic Church, who would bend truth in the direction of their desires rather than bend their desires in the direction of truth. This proclivity to make the world over in one’s own disordered image is the main problem in the Catholic Church today. It has led to a loss of faith and to every kind of moral scandal imaginable. Someone once described it as a “pressure mechanism” inside the Church and it threatens to destroy the institution from the inside out. It goes by the name of “modernism,” and it affects every spiritual and intellectual aspect of the Church’s existence. Popes Pius IX and X saw it coming and wrote encyclicals to address it. Perhaps the most informative of them all; was the “Syllabus of Errors,” which described modernism as the “synthesis of all heresies.” This is the fourth time that the Catholic Church has been down for the count of eight (it happens every five hundred years) and, yes, this crisis is the most serious of them all. Apostacy is everywhere and the homosexual mafia rules the roost in many places. The major Catholic institutions in the United States are no longer Catholic (smaller schools are the place to go) and most seminaries are hotbeds of heresy (but the few that remained faithful are like heaven on earth). Religious education has become little more than an attempt to feminize men and prepare them to blend in with the crowd rather than to stand up and fight for principle. Is it any wonder there are so many Christian Darwinists in the mix? Nevertheless, I still believe that the best place for anyone to be is inside the Church receiving the sacraments from those few faithful clerics who have stayed the course. The power of grace is still alive and well and available: heaven has not stopped providing it simply because there are so many unfaithful servants. ---“Narrow is the path and few there be who find it.” Indeed, the Church will never be completely destroyed and it still provides the graces necessary for salvation. The difference between now and earlier times is that that truth in advertising has become a major problem—one must now search diligently for the right catholic parish, the right catholic school, and the right catholic educators. They are still around- “On this rock I will build my Church and the gates of hell will not prevail against it.” Rhampton 7 thinks he knows something about the Catholic Church and its teachings, but it is evident that all his information comes from agenda-driven modernists who want to transform the Church’s true mission, which is to get people into God’s kingdom, into a politically correct lap dog for liberal politicians and government bureaucrats. Sadly, Rhampton 7 did not find the right catholic educators.StephenB
June 21, 2014
June
06
Jun
21
21
2014
12:19 AM
12
12
19
AM
PDT
Jerry: Got your note. The places to comment are under the UD column, and under the Hunter column which is linked. Also, keep your eye on BioLogos and Hump of the Camel, where such theological issues are frequently discussed. The TEs are very wrong to make theodicy the deciding factor in Christian theology overall. Other things, such as God's absolute sovereignty over nature, are equally important considerations.Timaeus
June 20, 2014
June
06
Jun
20
20
2014
08:08 PM
8
08
08
PM
PDT
StephenB @ 62: I appreciate your frustration. But rhampton7 has always been one of these people who says: "My mind is made up; don't try to confuse me with the facts." Polygenism is part of his sworn commitment to the Darwinian party, and if Church doctrine has to change to accommodate that, he will try to change Church doctrine. And if he can't get Church doctrine to change, he will either misrepresent what the Church teaches on the subject, or refuse to engage with it. For all his blustering about the Magisterium, he's essentially a cafeteria Catholic. I fear that the rise in cafeteria Catholicism, which is especially prevalent in the USA, will one day destroy Catholicism. Cafeteria Catholicism, after all, is just Protestantism with nicer church artwork.Timaeus
June 20, 2014
June
06
Jun
20
20
2014
07:22 PM
7
07
22
PM
PDT
Mung, There may still have been Salvation, but not the scenario envisioned by God. Some Protestants resolved this problem by arguing that we do not have free will. That is, the only way for God to guarantee that Judas betrayed Jesus as he planned, was to dictate Judas's response. Obviously the Church disagrees with Incompatibilism. (incompatibilists don't necessarily see it quite that way, but that's a whole 'nother kettle o' fish).rhampton7
June 20, 2014
June
06
Jun
20
20
2014
06:40 PM
6
06
40
PM
PDT
1 2 3 4 5

Leave a Reply