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Why some biologists are beginning to question the “biological species concept”

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Because it hasn’t made sense for quite some time and some are beginning to notice the problem.

The problem that Hejnol sees with the whole system is that the ranks don’t mean anything specific or uniform across all groups of life. Even though species is arguably the most important rank across multiple fields of biology, there are dozens of species concepts in use — and biologists working with different groups of organisms can’t seem to agree on just one. You might think that the other end of the hierarchy would be more settled, but it wasn’t so long ago that domains simply didn’t exist — the three domains we use today (Archaea, Bacteria and Eucarya) were only proposed in 1990. At that time, the top rank was kingdom, and there were five of those; now there are at least six, though some say there should be as many as 32. Similar ambiguities plague all the taxonomic ranks in between — even those often considered to be major, distinct and unambiguous, like phyla.

Perhaps this could all be resolved if the scientific community simply agreed upon a definition for each rank, but there’s no consensus for that.


Christie Wilcox, “What’s in a Name? Taxonomy Problems Vex Biologists” at Quanta

If modern biology began with “On the Origin of Species,” many may be willing to live with chaos to protect the sacred history.

See also: A physicist looks at biology’s problem of “speciation” in humans

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Comments
"From my experience with him, I consider him a prime example of a atheistic troll who could care less for the truth." My experience is the same. BB can be diplomatic, but he is a troll when you peel back all the layers. He doesn't really ground his positions other than that they are the typical atheist/progressive talking points, which are all just cultural fads. Andrewasauber
July 1, 2019
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AaronS1978, your experience with BB is VERY different from mine. In my experience with him he has persistently attacked me personally, many times solely because of my Christian beliefs, and has consistently refused to acknowledge when he is clearly mistaken on the scientific evidence. From my experience with him, I consider him a prime example of a atheistic troll who could care less for the truth. And who resorts to slander rather than engage in honest debate of the evidence. When shown to be wrong by the evidence itself he NEVER acknowledges it, but lashes out with personal attack towards me. I'm glad your experience is with him is different, but, again, mine has been VERY different than yours. Personally. in my exchanges with him, I wish he would honestly engage the evidence.bornagain77
July 1, 2019
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AaronS1978
Brother Brian has been able to correct me on a couple of subjects which I apologize for and to be honest with you he does the same.
Thanks AaronS1978. I enjoy our discussions as well. Although we probably disagree more than we agree, you have always done so without making it personal. A couple others, sadly, are pathologically incapable of doing so. I usually just ignore them but sometimes I avoid my own advice.Brother Brian
June 28, 2019
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@SA You put that nicer than I would have I took five years of microbiology and chemistry in college I was trying to major in the subject so I could become a doctor I’ve since then changed my major and I am trying to teach Without even as much is knowing my history or background mimus I assumed I was ignorant on the topics he was trying to present He wondered why I was asking him the questions above and what was the point of me asking him The point was to fish out whether or not he was blindly arrogant and believed that he and only he was the smartest person on site and the only one educated enough to talk to the subject He answered exactly as I would predict somebody of that attitude would answer Exactly without even as much as asking my educational background he took a very ignorant position and assumed Hence my sarcastic change towards him, his opinion no longer mattered to me I don’t assume peoples educational backgrounds at all I would just like to talk to them There are reasons why I can generally talk to most people I can still talk to brother Brian with a little problem yet you could see the war that goes on between him and BA77 I do not suppose or assume superiority over anyone And if I’m wrong I will apologize and I will back off Brother Brian has been able to correct me on a couple of subjects which I apologize for and to be honest with you he does the sameAaronS1978
June 28, 2019
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Mimus
I wish people could learn about the real biology they are missing out on …
I've been debating with evolutionists for about 15 years. I pose problems, questions and skepticism about the theory. I set the goalposts at the farthest point: How does evolution explain this in the most comprehensive way? What is the overall consistency of the theory? What I always get in reply is reference to the most trivial example, and that supposedly explains the problem with the theory. If anyone is moving the goalposts, it's answers like that that do it. If you have advanced knowledge on the topic, and you want people to learn, then try engaging the topic in your own words in a dialogue. If you face hostility or sarcasm, it means that you're dodging the question, concealing the problem or acting arrogant. It may also be true that your opponent has not understood your point yet. So, try to explain it again in different terms. Make it crystal clear. Be prepared to defend the whole scope of evolutionary theory, from bacteria to human beings - as a theory, not as a patchwork of ad hoc observations. That's what furthers dialogue, understanding and learning. People like myself become upset when I feel I'm being lied-to and that ignorance about the real problems in evolutionary theory is masked by an attitude of superiority and arrogance. Other members of the evolutionary community have joined this blog and taken exactly the same attitude. So, when I saw it in you, I realized that the situation for any real discussion was hopeless. As for you, quitting the site because you don't like the tone of some people - it seems defensive to me. Why not try to win people over with a superior argument?Silver Asiatic
June 28, 2019
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Mimus
So, yes I probably will stop wasting my time here.
Don’t leave me here alone...,. :)Brother Brian
June 28, 2019
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"I wish people could learn about the real biology the missing out on" - Mimus And ‘What in blue blazes does biology have to do with Darwinian evolution in the first place?”
As Marc Kirschner, founding chair of the Department of Systems Biology at Harvard Medical School, stated, “In fact, over the last 100 years, almost all of biology has proceeded independent of evolution, except evolutionary biology itself. Molecular biology, biochemistry, and physiology, have not taken evolution into account at all.”
“In fact, over the last 100 years, almost all of biology has proceeded independent of evolution, except evolutionary biology itself. Molecular biology, biochemistry, and physiology, have not taken evolution into account at all.” Marc Kirschner, founding chair of the Department of Systems Biology at Harvard Medical School, Boston Globe, Oct. 23, 2005
Or as A.S. Wilkins, editor of the journal BioEssays, stated, “While the great majority of biologists would probably agree with Theodosius Dobzhansky’s dictum that “Nothing in biology makes sense except in the light of evolution”, most can conduct their work quite happily without particular reference to evolutionary ideas. Evolution would appear to be the indispensable unifying idea and, at the same time, a highly superflous one.”
“While the great majority of biologists would probably agree with Theodosius Dobzhansky’s dictum that “Nothing in biology makes sense except in the light of evolution”, most can conduct their work quite happily without particular reference to evolutionary ideas. Evolution would appear to be the indispensable unifying idea and, at the same time, a highly superflous one.” A.S. Wilkins, editor of the journal BioEssays, Introduction to “Evolutionary Processes” – (2000).
Darwinian Evolution simply has nothing to do with the science of biology.,,,, https://uncommondescent.com/intelligent-design/darwins-fossils-freak-out-over-id-in-brazil/#comment-679530
bornagain77
June 28, 2019
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Most people’s interpretation of high-level usually means high-quality not higher levels of abstract in either case Wikipedia does not fit the bill Anyways good luck to youAaronS1978
June 28, 2019
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"high level" means "more abstract", dealing with something in more general terms then a low level approach. So yes, I do think a Wikipedia page is high-level. I don't think anything I post here is particularly difficult to understand. But I must admit I do find reactions like SA's above disappointing. I wish people could learn about the real biology the missing out on, instead of launching into these defensive rant about unrelated topics. So, yes I probably will stop wasting my time here.Mimus
June 28, 2019
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“I really dont’ understand why so many people post like this, but it’s certinaly another sign that I should probably leave y’all to yourselves.” Uhm good. I never understood why somebody as intelligent as yourself would continue wasting your time making posts that nobody here was educated enough to understand. And you just kept doing it over and over again. Isn’t repetition expecting a different result the definition of insanity. I don’t know I’m not educated enough to understand that. “I linked you to a high-level article that explains some of the conditions under which is ts possible and gives a few examples.” So your definition of a high-level article is a wiki?! Do you read what you write? This is an article and it’s actually relatively high level it’s an easy read, off of Google scholar https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/pdf/10.1111/j.1558-5646.1991.tb04333.x It almost supports your point of view There’s many of these articles you could post I suppose I’m not sure if anybody on this site would be able to understand them. But I suppose you’re no longer going to waste your time, correct.AaronS1978
June 27, 2019
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I really dont' understand why so many people post like this, but it's certinaly another sign that I should probably leave y'all to yourselves.Mimus
June 27, 2019
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Mimus
I linked you to a high-level article that explains some of the conditions under which is possible and gives a few examples.
Great explanation. You remain fully convinced that your theory is rigorously accurate. You did well for yourself. As for anyone else ??? Ok, I know - they don't matter. Circle the wagons and defend the absurdity of your ideas at all costs. That strategy has worked very well so far!Silver Asiatic
June 27, 2019
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So, just to recap the galloping goal posts here In 13 you said teh inability to breed without another organism could not be a fitness advantage. I explained in broad terms when it could be In 24 you said such a scenario can't be shown I linked you to a high-level article that explains some of the conditions under which is ts possible and gives a few examples. You claim the general discussoin in the article is speculative then complain about the specifuc example because... actually, no, I don't know what the point of your complain is You then go on some stock rant about fluctuating patterns fo selection, whith not suggestion as to why this is relevant to the topic of isolating mechanisms... a topic you learned about two days ago.Mimus
June 27, 2019
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SA No no, I know, sometimes it’s hard to convey but my last post should be taken with a dash of sarcasm ;) Except for the google scholar part, That is actually something that I’m a huge advocate of, after participating in a two-year debate involving Wikipedia and both oxytocin and the free will wiki I found more misquotes, fallacious, Accusations and direct omissions of studies that completely contradicted the wiki’s The one that was the most writhe with Problems and dishonesty was oxytocin wiki It almost only supported the Paul Zack view of it, and such science writers as Ed Young have done incredible work criticizing the fallacious work of oxytocin fans and more importantly the original study was overturned by the original group of scientists that posted it, they found that they could not reproduce their findings on trust, this was not even mentioned on the wiki and a lot of Ed Young’s criticisms as well as other studies that completely contradict the idea that it is the love hormone were also omitted. They might’ve changed it since the last I looked at it which would be nice if they did, but I have found this is often the case when it comes to wikiAaronS1978
June 27, 2019
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AaronS I appreciate the reference and yes, the Wikipedia entry is for a popular audience, not academic. At the same time, I have a problem with the concept in simple terms. Over the centuries that it takes for a new feature to emerge, fitness factors change often and what was less fit previously becomes more fit later. Being able to reproduce with the less fit is an advantage. Cutting off possibilities of reproducing with your own species isolates a part of the population for specific selection conditions, which will eventually change and make the risk of extinction much higher. A broader-base of reproduction possibilities is an advantage.
And their suppose it offspring produced as a medium sized beak that’s not good at either of the two tasks for the areas that they live in, this is of course incredibly situational.
Exactly. And supposedly, at one point, cutting off the possibility of reproduction with the medium beaks is an advantage for the survival of the species? It only isolates the fat beaks, and then puts the species at risk of extinction when the weather changes.
I guess a lot of situational incidents happened with all the species in all the world but I don’t know much about the subject I’m not sure.
I believe you know enough to point out that it doesn't make any sense.Silver Asiatic
June 27, 2019
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SA There are actually real articles about outbreeding, outbreeding depression, it’s advantages, Fairly high for outbreeding fairly low for outbreeding depression and it’s disadvantages I think it is a stretch to use it as an example of a survival advantage. the one time it is actually a survival advantage is incredibly incidental for example one set of the species requires a fatter beak to break the nuts the other one requires a thinner beak to get the nuts out of a small crack And their supposed offspring they produced has a medium sized beak that’s not good at either of the two tasks for the areas that they live in, this is of course incredibly situational. I guess a lot of situational incidents happened with all the species in all the world but I don’t know much about the subject I’m not sure.AaronS1978
June 27, 2019
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ET
That alleged fuzziness is why evolution does NOT predict/ expect a nested hierarchy. That fuzziness ruins any attempts at producing distinct groups.
Perfect example of how evolution wants it both ways. Supposedly there is a clear nested hierarchy that only evolution could produce. But there is also fuzzy gradation that makes it impossible to distinguish species.Silver Asiatic
June 27, 2019
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Mimus As with most evolutionary speculations, the article says that something happens but it does not explain why. "We observe something, therefore evolution did it. One feature was selected because it is dominant in the population."
For example, selection in one population might favor a large body size, whereas in another population small body size might be more advantageous, while individuals with intermediate body sizes are comparatively disadvantaged in both populations.
"Selection favors" … because the temperature dipped that summer, the temperature went up in the fall, the temperature dropped in the spring, then it went up in summer, there was a little less food, then there was more, then it didn't taste very good, some predators wandered around, some were faster some were slower, the sky was gray, the sky was sunny. A small body is more advantageous than a large one. A middle sized body is less advantageous than both. A semi-small is even less fit. A semi-big is more fit. Then, of course, they can't breed with each other any more, obviously. Yes, "selection favors" and "some become more fit or less fit". Ok, if you say so.
As another example, in the Tatra Mountains, the introduction of ibex from the Middle East resulted in hybrids which produced calves at the coldest time of the year.
Great example of what really happens in evolution. Take some animals that were confiscated in one region and stick them back into the wild in another region and notice that there is a problem with interbreeding. Basically replicates "what selection favored" two million years ago. Of course.
The different mechanisms of outbreeding depression can operate at the same time. However, determining which mechanism is likely to occur in a particular population can be very difficult.
No, really? "Very difficult"? Come on. They can't see that "selection favors", then a certain "mechanism occurs", then organisms become "more fit" or "less fit"? The Wikipedia editors need to work on that. It's pretty obvious what happens. Like gravity, it's totally predictable. How could anyone doubt it? Plus, it sounds so scientific, only a Ph.D. in biology could truly understand what is going on.Silver Asiatic
June 27, 2019
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Brother Brian:
They are all the result of a subjective human classification system.
Objective, unless you are saying that science is subjective. The criteria used is based on scientific reasoning.ET
June 27, 2019
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Brother Brian:
If anything, this fuzziness is something that would be expected if evolution proceeded as the theory proposes.
That alleged fuzziness is why evolution does NOT predict/ expect a nested hierarchy. That fuzziness ruins any attempts at producing distinct groups. But that is moot as there still isn't any known evolutionary mechanism capable of producing eukaryotes.ET
June 27, 2019
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Mimus:
Certainly most people posting at UD don’t know much evolutionary biology.
What is there to know? Most of the claims made by evolutionary biology are untestable and as such outside of science. Evolutionary biologists still don't even know what makes an organism what it is- meaning no one has any idea what determines form. And that would mean that evolutionary biology is nonsense unless it restricts itself to changes within a population over time.ET
June 27, 2019
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^^^^ Which explains why you, yet again, revealed your ignorance when you felt free to comment on a post that you admit that you did not even bother to read. Most normal people would make sure not to embarrass themselves like that, and would try to at least have a minimal understanding of what they were commenting on before they actually commented on it, but apparently in the Darwinian troll world, having a minimal understanding of a subject is no impediment for the troll commenting on it. Apparently, for the Darwinian troll, self-imposed ignorance is to be celebrated not shunned. Since reading is not your thing, perhaps a picture will help you understand what you have just done: http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-RCoIGOuWlps/T5VDxqpXR5I/AAAAAAAAD5U/SQf67i4NoPc/s1600/shooting%20yourself%20in%20the%20foot.jpgbornagain77
June 27, 2019
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BS77
Aside from the fact that you entirely missed the main point of my post, ...
You are under the mistaken impression that I, or anyone, reads your entire posts.Brother Brian
June 26, 2019
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Of note:
The fundamental theorem of natural selection with mutations - William F. Basener, John C. Sanford - June 2018 Excerpt: Because the premise underlying Fisher’s corollary is now recognized to be entirely wrong, Fisher’s corollary is falsified. Consequently, Fisher’s belief that he had developed a mathematical proof that fitness must always increase is also falsified. https://link.springer.com/article/10.1007/s00285-017-1190-x Fisher’s proof of Darwinian evolution has been flipped? - December 27, 2017 Excerpt: we re-examine Fisher’s Theorem, showing that because it disregards mutations, and because it is invalid beyond one instant in time, it has limited biological relevance. We build a differential equations model from Fisher’s first principles with mutations added, and prove a revised theorem showing the rate of change in mean fitness is equal to genetic variance plus a mutational effects term. We refer to our revised theorem as the fundamental theorem of natural selection with mutations. Our expanded theorem, and our associated analyses (analytic computation, numerical simulation, and visualization), provide a clearer understanding of the mutation–selection process, and allow application of biologically realistic parameters such as mutational effects. The expanded theorem has biological implications significantly different from what Fisher had envisioned. https://uncommondescent.com/intelligent-design/fishers-proof-of-darwinian-evolution-has-been-flipped/
bornagain77
June 26, 2019
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Exactly. Fitness is established after-the-fact. I don’t think it is every shown clearly, nor can it be in historical speculations, how part of a population can become so unsuccessful that it is an advantage not to breed with it.
You could start here.Mimus
June 26, 2019
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AaronS Your comments did not receive a response, but I just noted this as a key element:
This also falls into the category of infinite explanatory power of the theory, where it loses validity
Exactly. Fitness is established after-the-fact. I don't think it is every shown clearly, nor can it be in historical speculations, how part of a population can become so unsuccessful that it is an advantage not to breed with it.Silver Asiatic
June 26, 2019
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BB claims that,
Of course the concept of species is a subjective human construct. Who has suggested otherwise? The same applies to genus, order, family, phylum, kingdom, etc. They are all the result of a subjective human classification system.
Aside from the fact that you entirely missed the main point of my post, which was that EVERYTHING, including material particles themselves, turn out to be a 'subjective human construct' (aside from that minor overlooked detail on your part), I want to thank you for bringing up the classification system of "genus, order, family, phylum, kingdom". It turns out that the fossil record itself reveals an 'upside down' pattern for the appearance of the various classifications than what Darwin's theory predicted should be the order of appearance for the various classifications. The following video touches upon that 'upside down' pattern
Cambrian Explosion Ruins Darwin’s Tree of Life (2 minutes in 24 hour day) – video (2:55 minute mark) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vA2LDiWeWb4
As Dr. Wells pointed out in the preceding video, Darwin predicted that minor differences (diversity) between species would gradually appear first and then the differences would grow larger (disparity) between species as time went on. (i.e. universal common descent as depicted in Darwin's tree of life). What Darwin predicted should be familiar to everyone and is easily represented in the following graph.,,,
The Theory - Diversity precedes Disparity - graph http://www.veritas-ucsb.org/JOURNEY/IMAGES/F.gif
But that 'tree pattern' that Darwin predicted is not what is found in the fossil record. The fossil record reveals that disparity (the greatest differences) precedes diversity (the smaller differences), which is the exact opposite pattern for what Darwin's theory predicted.
The Actual Fossil Evidence- Disparity precedes Diversity - graph http://www.veritas-ucsb.org/JOURNEY/IMAGES/G.gif
As Erwin stated, "The fossil record suggests that the major pulse of diversification of phyla occurs before that of classes, classes before that of orders, orders before that of families. The higher taxa do not seem to have diverged through an accumulation of lower taxa."
Jerry Coyne's Chapter on the Fossil Record Fails to Show "Why Evolution is True" - Jonathan M. - December 4, 2012 Excerpt: Taxonomists classify organisms into categories: species are the very lowest taxonomic category. Species are classified into different genera. Genera are classified into different families. Families are classified into different orders. Orders are classified into different classes. And classes are classified into different phyla. Phyla are among the very highest taxonomic categories (only kingdom and domain are higher), and correspond to the high level of morphological disparity that exists between different animal body plans. Phyla include such groupings as chordates, arthropods, mollusks, and echinoderms. Darwin's theory would predict a cone of diversity whereby the major body-plan differences (morphological disparity) would only appear in the fossil record following numerous lower-level speciation events. What is interesting about the fossil record is that it shows the appearance of the higher taxonomic categories first (virtually all of the major skeletonized phyla appear in the Cambrian, with no obvious fossil transitional precursors, within a relatively small span of geological time). As Roger Lewin (1988) explains in Science, "Several possible patterns exist for the establishment of higher taxa, the two most obvious of which are the bottom-up and the top-down approaches. In the first, evolutionary novelties emerge, bit by bit. The Cambrian explosion appears to conform to the second pattern, the top-down effect." Erwin et al. (1987), in their study of marine invertebrates, similarly conclude that, "The fossil record suggests that the major pulse of diversification of phyla occurs before that of classes, classes before that of orders, orders before that of families. The higher taxa do not seem to have diverged through an accumulation of lower taxa." Indeed, the existence of numerous small and soft-bodied animals in the Precambrian strata undermines one of the most popular responses that these missing transitions can be accounted for by them being too small and too-soft bodied to be preserved. http://www.evolutionnews.org/2012/12/jerry_coynes_c067021.html Erwin and Valentine's The Cambrian Explosion Affirms Major Points in Darwin's Doubt: The Cambrian Enigma Is "Unresolved" - June 26, 2013 Excerpt: "In other words, the morphological distances -- gaps -- between body plans of crown phyla were present when body fossils first appeared during the explosion and have been with us ever since. The morphological disparity is so great between most phyla that the homologous reference points or landmarks required for quantitative studies of morphology are absent." Erwin and Valentine (p. 340) http://www.evolutionnews.org/2013/06/erwin_valentine_cambrian_explosion073671.html
And as Valentine stated,
“Darwin had a lot of trouble with the fossil record because if you look at the record of phyla in the rocks as fossils why when they first appear we already see them all. The phyla are fully formed. It’s as if the phyla were created first and they were modified into classes and we see that the number of classes peak later than the number of phyla and the number of orders peak later than that. So it’s kind of a top down succession, you start with this basic body plans, the phyla, and you diversify them into classes, the major sub-divisions of the phyla, and these into orders and so on. So the fossil record is kind of backwards from what you would expect from in that sense from what you would expect from Darwin’s ideas." James W. Valentine - as quoted from "On the Origin of Phyla: Interviews with James W. Valentine" - (as stated at 1:16:36 mark of video) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xtdFJXfvlm8
And as Goldschmidt and Lewin remarked
"The facts of greatest general importance are the following. When a new phylum, class, or order appears, there follows a quick, explosive (in terms of geological time) diversification so that practically all orders or families known appear suddenly and without any apparent transitions. Afterwards, a slow evolution follows; this frequently has the appearance of a gradual change, step by step, though down to the generic level abrupt major steps without transitions occur. At the end of such a series, a kind of evolutionary running-wild frequently is observed. Giant forms appear, and odd or pathological types of different kinds precede the extinction of such a line." Richard B. Goldschmidt, “Evolution, as Viewed by One Geneticist,” American Scientist 40 (January 1952), 97. As Roger Lewin (1988) explains in Science, "Several possible patterns exist for the establishment of higher taxa, the two most obvious of which are the bottom-up and the top-down approaches. In the first, evolutionary novelties emerge, bit by bit. The Cambrian explosion appears to conform to the second pattern, the top-down effect."
And as Chen stated,
Challenging Fossil of a Little Fish Excerpt: "In Chen’s view, his evidence supports a history of life that runs opposite to the standard evolutionary tree diagrams, a progression he calls top-down evolution." Jun-Yuan Chen is professor at the Nanjing Institute of Paleontology and Geology http://www.fredheeren.com/boston.htm
Moreover, as Stephen Meyer pointed out, there are 'yawning chasms' in the 'morphological space' between the phyla which suddenly appeared in the Cambrian Explosion,,,
"Over the past 150 years or so, paleontologists have found many representatives of the phyla that were well-known in Darwin’s time (by analogy, the equivalent of the three primary colors) and a few completely new forms altogether (by analogy, some other distinct colors such as green and orange, perhaps). And, of course, within these phyla, there is a great deal of variety. Nevertheless, the analogy holds at least insofar as the differences in form between any member of one phylum and any member of another phylum are vast, and paleontologists have utterly failed to find forms that would fill these yawning chasms in what biotechnologists call “morphological space.” In other words, they have failed to find the paleolontogical equivalent of the numerous finely graded intermediate colors (Oedleton blue, dusty rose, gun barrel gray, magenta, etc.) that interior designers covet. Instead, extensive sampling of the fossil record has confirmed a strikingly discontinuous pattern in which representatives of the major phyla stand in stark isolation from members of other phyla, without intermediate forms filling the intervening morphological space." Stephen Meyer - Darwin’s Doubt (p. 70)
Moreover, this top down pattern in the fossil record, which is the complete opposite pattern as Darwin predicted for the fossil record, is not only found in the Cambrian Explosion, but this 'top down', disparity preceding diversity, pattern is found throughout the fossil record subsequent to the Cambrian explosion as well.
Scientific study turns understanding about evolution on its head – July 30, 2013 Excerpt: evolutionary biologists,,, looked at nearly one hundred fossil groups to test the notion that it takes groups of animals many millions of years to reach their maximum diversity of form. Contrary to popular belief, not all animal groups continued to evolve fundamentally new morphologies through time. The majority actually achieved their greatest diversity of form (disparity) relatively early in their histories. ,,,Dr Matthew Wills said: “This pattern, known as ‘early high disparity’, turns the traditional V-shaped cone model of evolution on its head. What is equally surprising in our findings is that groups of animals are likely to show early-high disparity regardless of when they originated over the last half a billion years. This isn’t a phenomenon particularly associated with the first radiation of animals (in the Cambrian Explosion), or periods in the immediate wake of mass extinctions.”,,, Author Martin Hughes, continued: “Our work implies that there must be constraints on the range of forms within animal groups, and that these limits are often hit relatively early on. Co-author Dr Sylvain Gerber, added: “A key question now is what prevents groups from generating fundamentally new forms later on in their evolution.,,, http://phys.org/news/2013-07-scientific-evolution.html
Thus, regardless of however someone might want to 'arbitrarily' classify organisms, the fact of the matter is that Darwin's theory is falsified as being the correct theory as to explaining what order the various levels of classification should appear. In fact, Darwin's 'bottom up' theory gets the order of appearance completely backwards from what it actually is, i.e. 'Top Down'!bornagain77
June 26, 2019
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Lol that’s what I thought I wrote the post that I wrote because of how you responded to sa you didn’t explain anything you just made a statement and you expect everybody to understand and know what you were talking about I explained how they would respond to you, that shows nothing to whether or not I am ignorant to the literature that you speak of You strike me as arrogant, and arrogant and ignorant do go hand-in-hand I don’t need to engage you anymore and you’re not really worth talking to, much like what you stated about KF, and BA 77, that’s all I needed to hear from youAaronS1978
June 26, 2019
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I'm not sure what the point of this is. For what it's worth. I genuinely think you are ignorant of the literature on isolating mechanisms. I'm not sure why else you could write the post that you did. Certainly most people posting at UD don't know much evolutionary biology. There is not shame in that, of course. It's only holding very strong opinions on topics that you are ignorant about that I object to.Mimus
June 26, 2019
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Mimus “The inability to breed with other organisms would not be a fitness advantage. If the hybrids of such an corssing are unfit then any mechanism that prevents the production of such offspreing is itself a fitness advantage.” This is what I quoted and this is what I dissected in my last post I don’t see how I miss read this and my response I believe is quite appropriate to it Nor was I even stating that you were making an argument but a statement that can lead to arguments I simply pointed out the possible outcomes and how people might respond to it Secondly you assume that I am not aware of these rich texts that you speak of for isolating mechanisms in speciation, and other topics like genetic drift, and the so-called just so stories that I pointed out above Do you assume that everybody on UD is completely uneducated, and has no understanding of evolution but yourself? I’m just wondering because I’m questioning a lot of your previous comments, Particularly about PaV As they have quite the sarcastic undertone or am I just miss reading your commentary Now I feel treated what I quoted with respect, If I didn’t please let me know in a cordial and polite manner if not we need not discuss any further and I will know it’s not worth engaging youAaronS1978
June 26, 2019
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