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Why there’s no such thing as a CSI Scanner, or: Reasonable and Unreasonable Demands Relating to Complex Specified Information

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It would be very nice if there was a magic scanner that automatically gave you a readout of the total amount of complex specified information (CSI) in a system when you pointed it at that system, wouldn’t it? Of course, you’d want one that could calculate the CSI of any complex system – be it a bacterial flagellum, an ATP synthase enzyme, a Bach fugue, or the faces on Mt. Rushmore – by following some general algorithm. It would make CSI so much more scientifically rigorous, wouldn’t it? Or would it?

This essay is intended as a follow-up to the recent thread, On the calculation of CSI by Mathgrrl. It is meant to address some concerns about whether CSI is sufficiently objective to qualify as a bona fide scientific concept.

But first, some definitions. In The Design of Life: Discovering Signs of Intelligence in Biological Systems (The Foundation for Thought and Ethics, Dallas, 2008), Intelligent Design advocates William Dembski and Jonathan Wells define complex specified information (or CSI) as follows (p. 311):

Information that is both complex and specified. Synonymous with SPECIFIED COMPLEXITY.

Dembski and Wells then define specified complexity on page 320 as follows:

An event or object exhibits specified complexity provided that (1) the pattern to which it conforms is a highly improbable event (i.e. has high PROBABILISTIC COMPLEXITY) and (2) the pattern itself is easily described (i.e. has low DESCRIPTIVE COMPLEXITY).

In this post, I’m going to examine seven demands which Intelligent Design critics have made with regard to complex specified information (CSI):

(i) that it should be calculable not only in theory but also in practice, for real-life systems;
(ii) that for an arbitrary complex system, we should be able to calculate its CSI as being (very likely) greater than or equal to some specific number, X, without knowing anything about the history of the system;
(iii) that it should be calculable by independent agents, in a consistent manner;
(iv) that it should be knowable with absolute certainty;
(v) that it should be precisely calculable (within reason) by independent agents;
(vi) that it should be readily computable, given a physical description of the system;
(vii) that it should be computable by some general algorithm that can be applied to an arbitrary system.

I shall argue that the first three demands are reasonable and have been met in at least some real-life biological cases, while the last four are not.

Now let’s look at each of the seven demands in turn.

(i) CSI should be calculable not only in theory but also in practice, for real-life systems

This is surely a reasonable request. After all, Professor William Dembski describes CSI as a number in his writings, and even provides a mathematical formula for calculating it.

On page 34 of his essay, Specification: The Pattern That Signifies Intelligence, Professor Dembski writes:

In my present treatment, specified complexity … is now … an actual number calculated by a precise formula (i.e., Chi=-log2[10^120.Phi_s(T).P(T|H)]). This number can be negative, zero, or positive. When the number is greater than 1, it indicates that we are dealing with a specification. (Emphases mine – VJT.)

The reader will recall that according to the definition given in The Design of Life (The Foundation for Thought and Ethics, Dallas, 2008), on page 311, specified complexity is synonymous with complex specified information (CSI).

On page 24 of his essay, Professor Dembski defines the specified complexity Chi of a pattern T given chance hypothesis H, minus the tilde and context sensitivity, as:

Chi=-log2[10^120.Phi_s(T).P(T|H)]

On page 17, Dembski defines Phi_s(T) as the number of patterns for which S’s semiotic description of them is at least as simple as S’s semiotic description of T.

P(T|H) is defined throughout the essay as a probability: the probability of a pattern T with respect to the chance hypothesis H.

During the past couple of days, I’ve been struggling to formulate a good definition of “chance hypothesis”, because for some people, “chance” means “totally random”, while for others it means “not directed by an intelligent agent possessing foresight of long-term results” and hence “blind” (even if law-governed), as far as long-term results are concerned. In his essay, Professor Dembski is quite clear in his essay that he means to include Darwinian processes (which are not totally random, because natural selection implies non-random death) under the umbrella of “chance hypotheses”. So here’s how I envisage it. A chance hypothesis describes a process which does not require the input of information, either at the beginning of the process or during the process itself, in order to generate its result (in this case, a complex system). On this definition, Darwinian processes would qualify as a chance hypotheses, because they claim to be able to grow information, without the need for input from outside – whether by a front-loading or a tinkering Designer of life.

CSI has already been calculated for some quite large real-life biological systems. In a post on the recent thread, On the calculation of CSI, I calculated the CSI in a bacterial flagellum, using a naive provisional estimate of the probability P(T|H). The numeric value of the CSI was calculated as being somewhere between 2126 and 3422. Since this is far in excess of 1, the cutoff point for a specification, I argued that the bacterial flagellum was very likely designed. Of course, a critic could fault the naive provisional estimate I used for the probability P(T|H). But my point was that the calculated CSI was so much greater than the minimum value needed to warrant a design inference that it was incumbent on the critic to provide an argument as to why the calculated CSI should be less than or equal to 1.

In a later post on the same thread, I provided Mathgrrl with the numbers she needed to calculate the CSI of another irreducibly complex biological system: ATP synthase. As far as I am aware, Mathgrrl has not taken up my (trivially easy) challenge to complete the calculation, so I shall now do it for the benefit of my readers. The CSI of ATP synthase can be calculated as follows. The shortest semiotic description of the specific function of this molecule is: “stator joining two electric motors” which is five words. If we imagine (following Dembski) that we have a dictionary of basic concepts, and assume (generously) that there are no more than 10^5 (=100,000) entries in this dictionary, then the number of patterns for which S’s semiotic description of them is at least as simple as S’s semiotic description of T is (10^5)^5 or 10^25. This is Phi_s(T). I then quoted a scientifically respectable source (see page 236) which estimated the probability of ATP synthase forming by chance, under the most favorable circumstances (i.e with a genetic code available), at 1 in 1.28×10^266. This is P(H|T). Thus Chi=-log2[10^120.Phi_s(T).P(T|H)]=-log2[(10^145)/(1.28×10^266)]
=-log2[1/(1.28×10^121)]=log2[1.28×10^121]
=log2[1.28x(2^(3.321928))^121]=log2[1.28×2^402],
or about 402, to the nearest whole number.
Thus for ATP synthase, the CSI Chi is 402. 402 is far greater than 1, the cutoff point for a specification, so we can safely conclude that ATP synthase was designed by an intelligent agent.

[Note: Someone might be inclined to argue that conceivably, other biological structures might perform the same function as ATP synthase, and we’d have to calculate their probabilities of arising by chance too, in order to get a proper figure for P(T|H) if T is the pattern “stator joining two electric motors.” In reply: any other structures with the same function would have a lot more components – and hence be much more improbable on a chance hypothesis – than ATP synthase, which is a marvel of engineering efficiency. See here and here. As ATP synthase is the smallest biological molecule – and hence most probable, chemically speaking – that can do the job that it does, we can safely ignore the probability of any other more complex biological structures arising with the same functionality, as negligible in comparison.]

Finally, in another post on the same thread, I attempted to calculate the CSI in a 128×128 Smiley face found on a piece of rock on a strange planet. I made certain simplifying assumptions about the eyes on the Smiley face, and the shape of the smile. I also assumed that every piece of rock on the planet was composed of mineral grains in only two colors (black and white). The point was that these CSI calculations, although tedious, could be performed on a variety of real-life examples, both organic and inorganic.

Does this mean that we should be able to calculate the CSI of any complex system? In theory, yes; however in practice, it may be very hard to calculate P(T|H) for some systems. Nevertheless, it should be possible to calculate a provisional upper bound for P(T|H), based on what scientists currently know about chemical and biological processes.

(ii) For an arbitrary complex system, we should be able to calculate its CSI as being (very likely) greater than or equal to some specific number, X, without knowing anything about the history of the system.

This is an essential requirement for any meaningful discussion of CSI. What it means in practice is that if a team of aliens were to visit our planet after a calamity had wiped out human beings, they should be able to conclude, upon seeing Mt. Rushmore, that intelligent beings had once lived here. Likewise, if human astronauts were to discover a monolith on the moon (as in the movie 2001), they should still be able to calculate a minimum value for its CSI, without knowing its history. I’m going to show in some detail how this could be done in these two cases, in order to convince the CSI skeptics.

Aliens visiting Earth after a calamity had wiped out human beings would not need to have a detailed knowledge of Earth history to arrive at the conclusion that Mt. Rushmore was designed by intelligent agents. A ballpark estimate of the Earth’s age and a basic general knowledge of Earth’s geological processes would suffice. Given this general knowledge, the aliens should be able to roughly calculate the probability of natural processes (such as wind and water erosion) being able to carve features such as a flat forehead, two eyebrows, two eyes with lids as well as an iris and a pupil, a nose with two nostrils, two cheeks, a mouth with two lips, and a lower jaw, at a single location on Earth, over 4.54 billion years of Earth history. In order to formulate a probability estimate for a human face arising by natural processes, the alien scientists would have to resort to decomposition. Assuming for argument’s sake that something looking vaguely like a flat forehead would almost certainly arise naturally at any given location on Earth at some point during its history, the alien scientists would then have to calculate the probability that over a period of 4.54 billion years, each of the remaining facial features was carved naturally at the same location on Earth, in the correct order and position for a human face. That is, assuming the existence of a forehead-shaped natural feature, scientists would have to calculate the probability (over a 4.54 billion year period) that two eyebrows would be carved by natural processes, just below the forehead, as well as two eyes below the eyebrows, a nose below the eyes, two cheeks on either side of the nose, a mouth with two lips below the nose, and a jawline at the bottom, making what we would recognize as a face. The proportions would also have to be correct, of course. Since this probability is order-specific (as the facial features all have to appear in the right place), we can calculate it as a simple product – no combinatorics here. To illustrate the point, I’ll plug in some estimates that sound intuitively right to me, given my limited background knowledge of geological processes occurring over the past 4.54 billion years: 1*(10^-1)*(10^-1)*(10^-10)*(10*-10)*(10^-6)*(10^-1)*(10^-1)*(10*-4)*(10^-2), for the forehead, two eyebrows, two eyes, nose, cheeks, mouth and jawline respectively, giving a product of 10^(-36) – a very low number indeed. Raising that probability to the fourth power – giving a figure of 10^(-144) – would enable the alien scientists to calculate the probability of four faces being carved at a single location by chance, or P(T|H). The alien scientists would then have to multiply this number (10^(-144)) by their estimate for Phi_s(T), or the number of patterns for which a speaker S’s semiotic description of them is at least as simple as S’s semiotic description of T. But how would the alien scientists describe the patterns they had found? If the aliens happened to find some dead people or dig up some human skeletons, they would be able to identify the creatures shown in the carvings on Mt. Rushmore as humans. However, unless they happened to find a book about American Presidents, they would not know who the faces were. Hence the aliens would probably formulate a modest semiotic description of the pattern they observed on Mt. Rushmore: four human faces. A very generous estimate for Phi_s(T) is 10^15, as the description “four human faces” has three words (I’m assuming here that the aliens’ lexicon has no more than 10^5 basic words), and (10^5)^3=10^15. Thus the product Phi_s(T).P(T|H) is (10^15)*(10^(-144)) or 10^(-129). Finally, after multiplying the product Phi_s(T).P(T|H) by 10^120 (the maximum number of bit operations that could have taken place within the entire observable universe during its history, as calculated by Seth Lloyd), taking the log to base 2 of this figure and multiplying by -1, the alien scientists would then be able to derive a very conservative minimum value for the specified complexity Chi of the four human faces on Mt. Rushmore, without knowing anything specific about the Earth’s history. (I say “conservative” because the multiplier 10^120 is absurdly large, given that we are only talking about events occurring on Earth, rather than the entire universe.) In our worked example, the conservative minimum value for the specified complexity Chi would be -log2(10^(-9)), or approximately -log2(2^(-30))=30. Since the calculated specified complexity value of 30 is much greater than the cutoff level of 1 for a specification, the aliens could be certain beyond reasonable doubt that Mt. Rushmore was designed by an intelligent agent. They might surmise that this intelligent agent was a human agent, as the faces depicted are all human, but they could not be sure of this fact, without knowing the history of Mt. Rushmore.

Likewise, if human astronauts were to discover a monolith on the moon (as in the movie 2001), they should still be able to calculate a minimum value for its CSI, without knowing its history. Even if they were unable to figure out the purpose of the monolith, the astronauts would still realize that the likelihood of natural processes on the moon being able to generate a black cuboid figure with perfectly flat faces, whose lengths were in the ratio of 1:4:9, is very low indeed. To begin with, the astronauts might suppose that at some stage in the past, volcanic processes on the moon, similar to the volcanic processes that formed the Giants’ Causeway in Ireland, were able to produce a cuboid with fairly flat faces – let’s say to an accuracy of one millimeter, or 10^(-3) meters. However, the probability that the sides’ lengths would be in the exact ratio of 1:4:9 (to the level of precision of human scientists’ instruments) would be astronomically low, and the probability that the faces of the monolith would be perfectly flat would be infinitesimally low. For instance, let’s suppose for simplicity’s sake that the length of each side of a naturally formed cuboid has a uniform probability distribution over a finite range of 0 to 10 meters, and that the level of precision of scientific measuring instruments is to the nearest nanometer (1 nanometer=10^(-9) meters). Then the length of one side of a cuboid can assume any of 10×10^9=10^10 possible values, all of which are equally probable. Let’s also suppose that the length of the shortest side just happens to be 1 meter, for simplicity’s sake. Then the probability that the other two sides would have lengths of 4 and 9 meters would be 6*(10^(-10))*(10^(-10)) (as there are six ways in which the sides of a cube can have lengths in the ratio of 1:4:9), or 6*10^(-100). Now let’s go back to the faces, which are not fairly flat but perfectly flat, to within an accuracy of one nanometer, as opposed to one millimeter (the level of accuracy achieved by natural processes). At any particular point on the monolith’s surface, the probability that it will be accurate to that degree is (10^(-9))/(10^(-3)) or 10^(-6). The number of distinct points on the surface of the monolith which scientists can measure at nanometer accuracy is (10^9)*(10^9)*(surface area in square meters), or 98*(10^81) or about 10^83. Thus the probability that each and every point on the monolith’s surface will perfectly flat, to within an accuracy of one nanometer, is (10^(-6))^(10^83), or about 10^(-10^84), which dwarfs 10^-100, so we’ll let 10^(-10^84) be our P(T|H), as a ballpark approximation. This probability would then need to be multiplied by Phi_s(T). The simplest semiotic description of the pattern observed by the astronauts would be: flat-faced cuboid, sides’ lengths 1, 4, 9. Treating “flat-faced” as one word, this description has seven terms, so Phi_s(T) is (10^5)^7=10^35. Next, the astronauts would multiply the product Phi_s(T).P(T|H) by 10^120, but because the index 10^84 is so much greater in magnitude than the other indices (120 and 35), the overall result will still be about 10^(-10^84). Thus the specified complexity Chi=-log2[10^120.Phi_s(T).P(T|H)]=3.321928*10^84, or about 3*(10^84). This is an astronomically large number, much greater than the cutoff point of 1, so the astronauts could be certain that the monolith was made by an intelligent agent, even if they knew nothing about its history and had only a basic knowledge of lunar geological processes.

Having said that, it has to be admitted that sometimes, a lack of knowledge about the history of a complex system can skew CSI calculations. For example, if a team of aliens visiting Earth after a nuclear holocaust found the body of a human being buried in the Siberian permafrost, and managed to sequence the human genome using cells taken from that individual’s body, they might come across a duplicated gene. If they did not know anything about gene duplication – which might not occur amongst organisms on their planet – they might at first regard the discovery of two neighboring genes having virtually the same DNA sequence as proof positive that the human genome was designed – like lightning striking in the same place twice – causing them to arrive at an inflated estimate for the CSI in the genome. Does this mean that gene duplication can increase CSI? No. All it means is that someone (e.g. a visiting alien scientist) who doesn’t know anything about gene duplication, will overestimate the CSI of a genome in which a gene is duplicated. But since modern scientists know that gene duplication does occur as a natural process, and since they also know the rare circumstances that make it occur, they also know that the probability of duplication for the gene in question, given these circumstances, is exactly 1. Hence, the duplication of a gene adds nothing to the probability of the original gene occurring by chance. P(T|H) is therefore the same, and since the verbal descriptions of the two genomes are almost exactly the same – the only difference, in the case of a gene duplication, being “x2” plus brackets that go around the duplicated gene – the CSI will be virtually the same. Gene duplication, then does not increase CSI.

Even in this case, where the aliens, not knowing anything about gene duplication, are liable to be misled when estimating the CSI of a genome, they could still adopt a safe, conservative strategy of ignoring duplications (as they generate nothing new per se) and focusing on genes that have a known, discrete function, which is capable of being described concisely, thereby allowing them to calculate Phi_s(T) for any functional gene. And if they also knew the exact sequence of bases along the gene in question, the number of alternative base sequences capable of performing the same function, and finally the total number of base sequences which are physically possiblefor a gene of that length, the aliens could then attempt to calculate P(T|H), and hence calculate the approximate CSI of the gene, without a knowledge of the gene’s history. (I am of course assuming here that at least some genes found in the human genome are “basic” in their function, as it were.)

(iii) CSI should be calculable by independent agents, in a consistent manner.

This, too, is an essential requirement for any meaningful discussion of CSI. Beauty may be entirely in the eye of the beholder, but CSI is definitely not. The following illustration will serve to show my point.

Supose that three teams of scientists – one from the U.S.A, one from Russia and one from China – visited the moon and discovered four objects there that looked like alien artifacts: a round mirror with a picture of what looks like Pinocchio playing with a soccer ball on the back; a calculator; a battery; and a large black cube made of rock whose sides are equal in length, but whose faces are not perfectly smooth. What I am claiming here is that the various teams of scientists should all be able to rank the CSI of the four objects in a consistent fashion – e.g. “Based on our current scientific knowledge, object 2 has the highest level of CSI, followed by object 3, followed by object 1, followed by object 4” – and that they should be able to decide which objects are very likely to have been designed and which are not – e.g. “Objects 1, 2 and 3 are very likely to have been designed; we’re not so sure about object 4.” If this level of agreement is not achievable, then CSI is no longer a scientific concept, and its assessment becomes more akin to art than science.

We can appreciate this point better if we consider the fact that three art teachers from the same cultural, ethnic and socioeconomic backgrounds (e.g. three American Hispanic middle class art teachers living in Miami and teaching at the same school) might reasonably disagree over the relative merits of four paintings by different students at their school. One teacher might discern a high degree of artistic maturity in a certain painting, while the other teachers might see it as a mediocre work. Because it is hard to judge the artistic merit of a single painting by an artist, in isolation from that artist’s body of work, some degree of subjectivity when assessing the merits of an isolated work of art is unavoidable. CSI is not like this.

First, Phi_s(T) depends on the basic concepts in your language, which are public and not private, as you share them with other speakers of your language. These concepts will closely approximate the basic concepts of other languages; again, the concepts of other languages are shareable with speakers of your language, or translation would be impossible. Intelligent aliens, if they exist, would certainly have basic concepts corresponding to geometrical and other mathematical concepts and to biological functions; these are the concepts that are needed to formulate a semiotic description of a pattern T, and there is no reason in principle why aliens could not share their concepts with us, and vice versa. (For the benefit of philosophers who might be inclined to raise Quine’s “gavagai” parable: Quine’s mistake, in my view, was that he began his translation project with nouns rather than verbs, and that he failed to establish words for “whole” and “part” at the outset. This is what one should do when talking to aliens.)

Second, your estimate for P(T|H) will depend on your scientific choice of chance hypothesis and the mathematics you use to calculate the probability of T given H. A scientific hypothesis is capable of being critiqued in a public forum, and/or tested in a laboratory; while mathematical calculations can be checked by anyone who is competent to do the math. Thus P(T|H) is not a private assessment; it is publicly testable or checkable.

Let us now return to our illustration regarding the three teams of scientists examining four lunar artifacts. It is not necessary that the teams of scientists are in total agreement about the CSI of the artifacts, in order for it to be a meaningful scientific concept. For instance, it is possible that the three teams of scientists might arrive at somewhat different estimates of P(T|H), the probability of a pattern T with respect to the chance hypothesis H, for the patterns found on the four artifacts. This may be because the chance hypotheses considered by the various teams of scientists may be subtly different in their details. However, after consulting with each other, I would expect that the teams of scientists should be able to resolve their differences and (eventually) arrive at an agreement concerning the most plausible chance hypothesis for the formation of the artifacts in question, as well as a ballpark estimate of its magnitude. (In difficult cases, “eventually” might mean: over a period of some years.)

Another source of potential disagreement lies in the fact that the three teams of scientists speak different languages, whose basic concepts are very similar but not 100% identical. Hence their estimates of Phi_s(T), or the number of patterns for which a speaker S’s semiotic description is at least as simple as S’s semiotic description of a pattern T identified in a complex system, may be slightly different. To resolve these differences, I would suggest that as far as possible, the scientists should avoid descriptions which are tied to various cultures or to particular individuals, unless the resemblance is so highly specific as to be unmistakable. Also, the verbs employed should be as clear and definite as possible. Thus a picture on an alien artifact depicting what looks like Pinocchio playing with a soccer ball would be better described as a long-nosed boy kicking a black and white truncated icosahedron.

(iv) CSI should be knowable with absolute certainty.

Science is provisional. Based on what scientists know, it appears overwhelmingly likely that the Earth is 4.54 billion years old, give or take 50 million years. A variety of lines of evidence point to this conclusion. But if scientists discovered some new astronomical phenomena that could only be accounted for by positing a much younger Universe, then they’d have to reconsider the age of the Earth. In principle, any scientific statement is open to revision or modification of some sort. Even a statement like “Gold has an atomic number of 79”, which expresses a definition, could one day fall into disuse if scientists found a better concept than “atomic number” for explaining the fundamental differences between the properties of various elements.

Hence the demand by some CSI skeptics for absolute ironclad certainty that a specified complex system is the product of intelligent agency is an unscientific one.

Likewise, the demand by CSI skeptics for an absolutely certain, failproof way to measure the CSI of a system is also misplaced. Just as each of the various methods used by geologists to date rocks has its own limitations and situations where it is liable to fail, so too the various methods that Intelligent Design scientists come up with for assessing P(T|H) for a given pattern T and chance hypothesis H, will have their own limitations, and there will be circumstances when they yield the wrong results. That does not invalidate them; it simply means that they must be used with caution.

(v) CSI should be precisely calculable (within reason) by independent agents.

In a post (#259) on the recent thread, On the calculation of CSI, Jemima Racktouey throws down the gauntlet to Intelligent Design proponents:

If “CSI” objectively exists then you should be able to explain the methodology to calculate it and then expect independent calculation of the exact same figure (within reason) from multiple sources for the same artifact.

On the surface this seems like a reasonable request. For instance, the same rock dating methods are used by laboratories all around the world, and they yield consistent results when applied to the same rock sample, to a very high degree. How sure can we be that a lab doing Intelligent Design research in, say, Moscow or Beijing, would yield the same result when assessing the CSI of a biological sample as the Biologic Institute in Seattle, Washington?

The difference between the procedures used in the isochron dating of a rock sample and those used when assessing the CSI of a biological sample is that in the former case, the background hypotheses that are employed by the dating method have already been spelt out, and the assumptions that are required for the method to work can be checked in the course of the actual dating process; whereas in the latter case, the background chance hypothesis H regarding the most likely process whereby the biological sample might have formed naturally has not been stipulated in advance, and different labs may therefore yield different results because they are employing different chance hypotheses. This may appear to generate confusion; in practice, however, I would expect that two labs that yielded wildly discordant CSI estimates for the same biological sample would resolve the issue by critiquing each other’s methods in a public forum (e.g. a peer-reviewed journal).

Thus although in the short term, labs may disagree in their estimates of the CSI in a biological sample, I would expect that in the long term, these disagreements can be resolved in a scientific fashion.

(vi) CSI should be readily computable, given a physical description of the system.

In a post (#316) on the recent thread, On the calculation of CSI, a contributor named Tulse asks:

[I]f this were a physics blog and an Aristotelian asked how to calculate the position of an object from its motion, … I’d expect someone to simply post:

y = x + vt + 1/2at**2

If an alchemist asked on a chemistry blog how one might calculate the pressure of a gas, … one would simply post:

p=(NkT)/V

And if a young-earth creationist asked on a biology blog how one can determine the relative frequencies of the alleles of a gene in a population, … one would simply post:

p² + 2pq + q² = 1

These are examples of clear, detailed ways to calculate values, the kind of equations that practicing scientists uses all the time in quotidian research. Providing these equations allows one to make explicit quantitative calculations of the values, to test these values against the real world, and even to examine the variables and assumptions that underlie the equations.

Is there any reason the same sort of clarity cannot be provided for CSI?

The answer is that while the CSI of a complex system is calculable, it is not computable, even given a complete physical knowledge of the system. The reason for this fact lies in the formula for CSI.

On page 24 of his essay, Specification: The Pattern That Signifies Intelligence, Professor Dembski defines the specified complexity Chi of a pattern T given chance hypothesis H, minus the tilde and context sensitivity, as:

Chi=-log2[10^120.Phi_s(T).P(T|H)]

where Phi_s(T) as the number of patterns for which S’s semiotic description of them is at least as simple as S’s semiotic description of T, and P(T|H) is the probability of a pattern T with respect to the chance hypothesis H.

The problem here lies in Phi_s(T). In The Design of Life: Discovering Signs of Intelligence in Biological Systems (The Foundation for Thought and Ethics, Dallas, 2008), Intelligent Design advocates William Dembski and Jonathan Wells define Kolmogorov complexity and descriptive complexity as follows (p. 311):

Kolmogorov complexity is a form of computational complexity that measures the length of the minimum program needed to solve a computational problem. Descriptive complexity is likewise a form of computational complexity, but generalizes Kolmogorov complexity by measuring the size of the minimum description needed to characterize a pattern. (Emphasis mine – VJT.)

In a comment (#43) on the recent thread, On the calculation of CSI, I addressed a problem raised by Mathgrrl:

While I understand your motivation for using Kolmogorov Chaitin complexity rather than the simple string length, the problem with doing so is that KC complexity is uncomputable.

To which I replied:

Quite so. That’s the point. Intelligence is non-computational. That’s one big difference between minds and computers. But although CSI is not computable, it is certainly measurable mathematically.

The reason, then, why CSI is not physically computable is that it is not only a physical property but also a semiotic one: its definition invokes both a semiotic description of a pattern T and the physical probability of a non-foresighted (i.e. unintelligent) process generating that pattern according to chance hypothesis H.

(vii) CSI should be computable by some general algorithm that can be applied to an arbitrary system.

In a post (#263) on the recent thread, On the calculation of CSI, Jemima Racktouey issues the following challenge to Intelligent Design proponents:

If CSI cannot be calculated then the claims that it can are bogus and should not be made. If it can be calculated then it can be calculated in general and there should not be a very long thread where people are giving all sorts of reasons why in this particular case it cannot be calculated. (Emphasis mine – VJT.)

And again in post #323, she writes:

Can you provide such a definition of CSI so that it can be applied to a generic situation?

I would like to note in passing how the original demand of ID critics that CSI should be calculable has grown into a demand that it should be physically computable, which has now been transformed into a demand that it should be computable by a general algorithm. This demand is tantamount to putting CSI in a straitjacket of the materialists’ making. What the CSI critics are really demanding here is a “CSI scanner” which automatically calculates the CSI of any system, when pointed in the direction of that system. There are two reasons why this demand is unreasonable.

First, as I explained earlier in part (vi), CSI is not a purely physical property. It is a mixed property – partly semiotic and partly physical.

Second, not all kinds of problems admit of a single, generic solution that can be applied to all cases. An example of this in mathematics is the Halting problem. I shall quote here from the Wikipedia entry:

In computability theory, the halting problem is a decision problem which can be stated as follows: Given a description of a program, decide whether the program finishes running or continues to run forever. This is equivalent to the problem of deciding, given a program and an input, whether the program will eventually halt when run with that input, or will run forever.

Alan Turing proved in 1936 that a general algorithm to solve the halting problem for all possible program-input pairs cannot exist. We say that the halting problem is undecidable over Turing machines. (Emphasis mine – VJT.)

So here’s my counter-challenge to the CSI skeptics: if you’re happy to acknowledge that there’s no generic solution to the halting problem, why do you demand a generic solution to the CSI problem – that is, the problem of calculating, after being given a complete physical description of a complex system, how much CSI the system embodies?

Comments
Mathgrrl, That is not a contradiction. Light is readily observable even when it is not calculable. Before light was measurable (due to technological limitations), people could observe it and even conduct scientific experiments to test it.Collin
April 1, 2011
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Mathgrrl: I have to disagree with you on one point:
You’ve contradicted yourself in a single paragraph. Either CSI is a mathematically rigorous concept that can be used to reliably identify intelligent agency or it is not. You first claim that it is identifiable and observable, but then immediately admit that it does not have a rigorous mathematical definition.
I don't believe Collin has contradicted himself when he says CSI is identifiable and observable, but not calculable. But, to understand how those two statements are reconciable you need to see Collins position on CSI as follows: "I knows it when I sees it." I suspect, however, you won't find this particularly useful.jon specter
April 1, 2011
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BTW MathGrrl thank you for admiting the anti-ID positon is not science- no math, no figures, pure opinion. Life is good...Joseph
April 1, 2011
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MathGrrl, What does the theory of evolution have that is mathematically rigorousy defined? Does your position have anything that we can compare to CSI? Or are you just another intellectual coward? And do you realize that people use CSI every day?Joseph
April 1, 2011
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MathGrrl: blockquote>Neither of those is CSI as discussed by Dembski. Schneider has demonstrated that known evolutionary mechanisms can create Shannon information. 1- "Evolutionary mechanisms" is an equivocation 2- Shannon information is not CSI 3- IDists freely admit that blind, undirected processes can produce Shannon information 4- You don't know what you are talking about and just make stuff upJoseph
April 1, 2011
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Alex73,
Do you mean that only mathematically rigorously defined functions are reliable?
What I mean, and I think I've been very clear about this through the CSI thread and this one, is that unless a metric is clearly and unambiguously defined, with clarifying examples, such that it can be objectively calculated by anyone so inclined, it cannot be used as the basis for claims such as those being made by some ID proponents. If my Lord Kelvin quote didn't make that clear, here's a shorter one from Robert Heinlein: "If it can't be expressed in figures, it is not science; it is opinion."MathGrrl
April 1, 2011
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MathGrrl: blckquote>First, I am not making a claim in these threads discussing CSI, I am attempting to evaluate the claims of ID proponents. If a theory of ID is to grow out of the hypotheses being put forth by those proponents, it must stand on its own, explaining the available evidence and making testable predictions that could serve to falsify it. Right now, the metric of CSI does not meet those criteria. CSI does meet those criteria and ID does not stand on its own. It has to contrasted with necessity and chance.
Second, methodological (not philosophical) naturalism is essential to the scientific method.
That's it? Just a bald assertion? Strange the things you blindly accept and the things you refuse to accept even though they have been thoroughly explained to you.
Third, there is no a priori assumption that intelligent agents were not involved in evolution on this planet. There is, however, no empirical evidence that would suggest such involvement.
Actually there is plenty of such evidence. OTOH there isn'y any evidence for your position's claims.
If ID proponents can produce such evidence, it can be assessed using the scientific method, just as any other empirical evidence is assessed.
Strange how some scientists are assessing that evidence. OTOH there still isn't any eidence to assess from your position. Ya see it is the total failure of your position tht has allowed ID to persist. I can see that bothers you. :cool:Joseph
April 1, 2011
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MathGrrl says: Either CSI is a mathematically rigorous concept that can be used to reliably identify intelligent agency or it is not. Do you mean that only mathematically rigorously defined functions are reliable?Alex73
April 1, 2011
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Collin,
“We have seen in another thread that a rigorous mathematical definition of CSI is not readily available, so the prediction cannot be tested in this case.” Not true. CSI is readily identifiable and observable. I proposed a scientific test of CSI’s reliability in detecting design. See comment 95. This experiment is as rigorous as many I’ve seen/read about. While it would not conclusively settle the matter, it would be a scientific experiment that would shed light on it even without a rigorous mathematical definition of it. (But it DOES have a rigorous definition, just not a rigorous MATHEMATICAL definition).
You've contradicted yourself in a single paragraph. Either CSI is a mathematically rigorous concept that can be used to reliably identify intelligent agency or it is not. You first claim that it is identifiable and observable, but then immediately admit that it does not have a rigorous mathematical definition. "In physical science the first essential step in the direction of learning any subject is to find principles of numerical reckoning and practicable methods for measuring some quality connected with it. I often say that when you can measure what you are speaking about, and express it in numbers, you know something about it; but when you cannot measure it, when you cannot express it in numbers, your knowledge is of a meagre and unsatisfactory kind; it may be the beginning of knowledge, but you have scarcely in your thoughts advanced to the state of Science, whatever the matter may be." -- Lord KelvinMathGrrl
April 1, 2011
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PaV,
The pattern under consideration is the bit string that serves as a genome for the digital organism. You don’t need to analyze ev, just what ev is modeling.
Yes, that is the pattern. But, as in SP, there is a “chance hypothesis” associated with this pattern. To understand what chance mechanisms are actually in play, you would have to understand the ev program at great depth; then analyze where chance enters into it, and then formulate some kind of chance hypothesis based upon all this pain-staking work.
ev is just a model of some simplified evolutionary mechanisms. It sounds like you're saying that knowledge of how those mechanisms resulted in the pattern is necessary to calculate the CSI of the pattern. That contradicts Dembski's claim that CSI can be calculated "even if nothing is known about how they arose".
Do you know of such a metric? If so, could you please provide a rigorous mathematical definition for it and some examples of how to calculate it? If such a metric existed, I’d be happy to apply it to your two strings.
Well, I imagine you know about Shannon information. You know about Chaitin-Kolmogorov information. Can’t you use those metrics?
Neither of those is CSI as discussed by Dembski. Schneider has demonstrated that known evolutionary mechanisms can create Shannon information. No one has provided any evidence that Shannon information or Chaitin-Kolmogorov information are reliable indicators of intelligent agency.
If we look at String #1, and then, using ASCII code to convert letters into binary code while inserting the integer ’1? after the first four digits of the code for each letter, the binary string represents, “Methinks it is a weasel”.
I started lurking here around about the time of the weasel wars. Please, in the name of all you hold dear, don't start those again. ;-) Your explanation demonstrates one significant problem with calculating CSI -- the dependence on the knowledge of the person doing the calculation. If the strings were longer, to get past the 500 bit limit you specify, you could easily calculate that there is sufficient specified complexity (assuming you are assuming, arguendo, that these strings are somehow functional) to constitute CSI. Subsequent discoveries could lower that number to below the 500 bit threshold. That subjectivity in the calculation makes CSI prone to false positives and, again, contradicts Dembski's claim that CSI can be calculated ahistorically.MathGrrl
April 1, 2011
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William J. Murray,
“You are mistaken about the purpose of the scientific method and the use of a null hypothesis. A scientific hypothesis must make testable predictions.” No, I’m not mistaken about it; you are attempting to avoid meeting the same obligation you wish to enforce on ID advocates: it was asserted by Darwin, and is asserted throughout evolutionary literature ever since, that chance and non-intelligent (blind) processes can sufficiently account for biological diversity and success – IOW, that intelligence (teleology) is not needed.
First, I am not making a claim in these threads discussing CSI, I am attempting to evaluate the claims of ID proponents. If a theory of ID is to grow out of the hypotheses being put forth by those proponents, it must stand on its own, explaining the available evidence and making testable predictions that could serve to falsify it. Right now, the metric of CSI does not meet those criteria. Second, methodological (not philosophical) naturalism is essential to the scientific method. It is not specific to biology. Third, there is no a priori assumption that intelligent agents were not involved in evolution on this planet. There is, however, no empirical evidence that would suggest such involvement. If ID proponents can produce such evidence, it can be assessed using the scientific method, just as any other empirical evidence is assessed.
It seems to me that you are saying that neither claims of X or not-X can be supported
Not at all. What I am saying is that if you are making a claim, you need to support it. There is, as yet, no support for the claim that intelligent agency was involved in evolution on this planet. Perhaps a metric superior to CSI will allow testing of that claim.MathGrrl
April 1, 2011
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PaV, wouldn't a a comparison of two longer strings be problematic -- that is, if the escape hatch here is that the CSI is less than 500 bits?QuiteID
April 1, 2011
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Well it looks likeaouh a couple of whoppers, but the are FoS and brain-dead. And look- JR the sock puppet shows up here spewing more meaningless nonsense! Unfortunately for JR my adversaries are incapable of debate as evidenced by their comments. So sure, please check it out. You will see how intellectually barren evos are- as if anyone needed more evidence for that. Life is good...Joseph
April 1, 2011
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#145 vj Unfortunately Dembski introduces the formula on page 18 as a general way of calculating specificity when it is not known whether n is large or small compared to p.markf
April 1, 2011
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Ah, I now read that you said "in this case." Perhaps I should amend my comment. Too bad this blog doesn't let you amend comments.Collin
March 31, 2011
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Markf (#124) I've realized that Professor Dembski's formula for CSI uses a very good approximation. It is not a mistake. In the case he discusses, np works fine as a first order approximation for (1–(1-p)^n). In (#10) above, you wrote:
The formula Chi=-log2[10^120.Phi_s(T).P(T|H)] contains a rather basic error. If you have n independent events and the probability of single event having outcome x is p, then the probability of at least one event having outcome x is not np . It is (1–(1-p)^n). So the calculation 10^120.Phi_s(T).P(T|H) is wrong . The answer is still very small if p is small relative to n. But it does illustrate the lack of attention to detail and general sloppiness in some of the work on CSI.
The binomial expansion of (1-p)^n is: 1 + (nC1).(-p) + (nC2).(-p)^2 + (nC3).(-p)^3 + ..... + (nC(n-1)).(-p)^(n-1) + (nCn).(-p)^n. (nC1) is of course n, so the second term is -np. In the case where p is very small, the third and all subsequent terms are very small relative to np, and may safely be neglected. For example, (10^(-100))^2 is 10^(-200) which is much smaller than 10^-100. So for all practical intents and purposes we can approximate (1-p)^n by 1-np. But in that case (1–(1-p)^n) can be approximated by (1-(1-np)) which is np. Perhaps this was what you meant when you wrote:
The answer is still very small if p is small relative to n.
But in that case, all you are saying is that Dembski should have spelt out the fact that he was using an excellent approximation more clearly in his paper. Fair enough. However, he was writing for a mathematical audience. It would be wrong to accuse him of "general sloppiness" here, when in the case he is discussing, his formula is essentially correct. I hope this answers your question.vjtorley
March 31, 2011
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Mathgrrl, you said "We have seen in another thread that a rigorous mathematical definition of CSI is not readily available, so the prediction cannot be tested in this case." Not true. CSI is readily identifiable and observable. I proposed a scientific test of CSI's reliability in detecting design. See comment 95. This experiment is as rigorous as many I've seen/read about. While it would not conclusively settle the matter, it would be a scientific experiment that would shed light on it even without a rigorous mathematical definition of it. (But it DOES have a rigorous definition, just not a rigorous MATHEMATICAL definition).Collin
March 31, 2011
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I encourage everybody to check out Joseph's blog. He's a fascinating character. His arguments are precise and to the point. Rarely repeating himself he asserts his viewpoint confidently, directly and concisely. His intellectual vigor is matched only by the breath of his argumentation, from the physical sciences to the metaphysical his recall is unmatched and instant. His grip on point and counterpoint unnerving. Joesph, in short, is an unmatched peerless artist working in a realm, at a level I'm only starting to truly appreciate now. Bit by bit, blog post by blog post Joseph is clarifying the important and vital issues of the day. Check his blog out! He has many more posts (look for the ones that have many comments for posts sparking intense debate between him and his adversaries) then the one he links to in 141. His erudite essays simply cannot be missed!JemimaRacktouey
March 31, 2011
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I went fishing- Of MathGrrl, CSI and...- so far it is going as predicted.Joseph
March 31, 2011
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BTW, any CSI or FSCO/I analysis only makes a provisional finding of "best explanation" under current knowledge. As PaV's example shows, we can find false negatives all the time simply by not knowing about the pattern that a sequence describes; it might appear totally random until we find the pattern (in cryptanalysis, that would be the "key") that reveals the functional specificity of the sequence.William J. Murray
March 31, 2011
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I should have included this at the point where I say: "This also constitutes the event, E." The 'pattern' T is also "“Methinks it is a weasel” in ASCII with the integer ’1? interspersed each four digits of each letter translated." This is the "descriptive" part of the pattern T.PaV
March 31, 2011
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MathGrrl [137]: Let me begin by thanking you for responding. You had a choice to do otherwise.
The pattern under consideration is the bit string that serves as a genome for the digital organism. You don’t need to analyze ev, just what ev is modeling.
Yes, that is the pattern. But, as in SP, there is a "chance hypothesis" associated with this pattern. To understand what chance mechanisms are actually in play, you would have to understand the ev program at great depth; then analyze where chance enters into it, and then formulate some kind of chance hypothesis based upon all this pain-staking work.
Do you know of such a metric? If so, could you please provide a rigorous mathematical definition for it and some examples of how to calculate it? If such a metric existed, I’d be happy to apply it to your two strings.
Well, I imagine you know about Shannon information. You know about Chaitin-Kolmogorov information. Can't you use those metrics? To anticipate the correct answer---I don't want to waste time---they can't give you ANY information at all as to which of the two might be "designed". So, what shall we do? Why not apply the concepts of CSI as found in Dembski's No Free Lunch? Well, the process begins with the ability to discern a "pattern". To the naked eye, both of these appear to be randomly generated. As noted above, traditional informational 'metrics' can't help us. But, to reach the conclusion that either of the strings reaches to the level of CSI, the 'chance hypothesis' associated with the pattern must generate a rejection region that is so extremal, that any element of that rejection region has to have a probability of less than 10^-150. Don't bother counting, but I believe that there are 196 digits laid out in binary form. For a 'pattern' of this length, the chance of any digit appearing is 1/2. The improbability of this 'pattern' then, based on a 'pattern' of 196 binary digits is (1/2)^196. This is much, much greater a probability than 10^-150. Hence, patently, on the face of it, without knowing the "causal history" of this pattern, we can eliminate the possibility of it being CSI. That is, using the concept of CSI, we would rule out "intelligent agency" in the case of this 'pattern', simply because any pattern (binary string) of this length (196) could never be improbable enough. So, using the "metric" of CSI, we would conclude that neither of the strings is "designed". This turns out to be wrong; BUT, it is NOT a false positive, which would render CSI suspect, and of limited use. So, was one of these strings really "designed"? Well, if we want to work this out as an example of CSI, were going to need to discern what the pattern is? Naturally, I didn't want to make things easy for computer people to figure out. But I didn't want to make it too difficult either. However, someone with a passing familiarity with Dawkin's Blind Watchmaker should have had an easy time of it. (Specificational resources per SP) [I've given a hint. If you want to play around with that hint, you might stumble upon the pattern. I give it away explicitly below. So, if you want to take a stab at guessing, stop here.] xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx If we look at String #1, and then, using ASCII code to convert letters into binary code while inserting the integer '1' after the first four digits of the code for each letter, the binary string represents, "Methinks it is a weasel". Since we now know the 'pattern', and since we now know how it was generated, clearly it is CSI---since it was produced by an intelligent agent. However, without knowing the "causal history" of the "pattern", we could not make this claim as noted above. The "chance hypothesis" = T, is as above: a binary string of length 196. This also constitutes the event, E. So, to arrive at a "rejection region", we note that the P(T|E) is the ratio of the total number of ways of writing "Methinks it is a weasel" in ASCII with the integer '1' interspersed each four digits of each letter translated, divided by the total number of possible ways of describing event E. Now, there is only ONE way that "Me thinks it is a weasel" can be translated as I've indicated. However, the number of possible ways in which a binary string of this length could be generated---all constituting an event E---is equal to the total number of permutations of a bit string of that length, which should turn out to be 2^196. So, what is the "rejection region"? It is 1/(2^196) ~= 10^-74. Does the 'pattern' T fall into this "rejection region"? Yes. So, it's CSI is 196 bits; far less than the needed 500. Therefore, we cannot conclude---without knowing its causal history---that it is "designed". Q.E.D.PaV
March 31, 2011
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Mathgrrl wrote: "You are mistaken about the purpose of the scientific method and the use of a null hypothesis. A scientific hypothesis must make testable predictions." No, I'm not mistaken about it; you are attempting to avoid meeting the same obligation you wish to enforce on ID advocates: it was asserted by Darwin, and is asserted throughout evolutionary literature ever since, that chance and non-intelligent (blind) processes can sufficiently account for biological diversity and success - IOW, that intelligence (teleology) is not needed. The only way to support that claim is to provide a metric for X, or for determining what characteristics of the phenomena in question would demonstrate intelligent manipulation, and then show that such characteristics are not present. The claim that intelligent guidance (teleology) is not necessary is a positive claim, and can only be supported by showing that intelligence (teleology) is not (at least theoretically) necessary. It seems to me that you are saying that neither claims of X or not-X can be supported; therefore, it seems to me that you agree that it was an error on Darwin's part, and it has been an erroneous assertion on the part of evolutionary literature ever since, to assert or imply that the processes necessary to produce the biological diversity we see today are fairly described as "unintelligent" or "chance" or "non-teleological", since there is no "not-X" metric for making such a determination. Is that your position?William J. Murray
March 31, 2011
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PaV,
she wants us to do her dirty work.
I don't find math to be dirty, but that's a personal aesthetic. What I want is for ID proponents to show the work behind their claims. That's not an unreasonable request in scientific circles.
Can you please tell me how I can give a rigorous mathematical definition of CSI for the ev program?
The pattern under consideration is the bit string that serves as a genome for the digital organism. You don't need to analyze ev, just what ev is modeling.
So, if you’re interested in how a “chance hypothesis” works, let’s take a look at those two strings: String #1: 1001110111010101111101001 1011000110110011101111011 0110111111001101010000110 1100111110100010100001101 1001111100110101000011010 0010101000011110111110101 0111010001111100111101010 11101110001011110 String #2: 1001001101101000101011111 1111110101000101111101001 0110010100101100101110101 0110010111100000001010101 0111110101001000110110011 0110100111110100110101011 0010001111110111111011010 00001110100100111 Now, MathGrrl, which is which?
If only there were a metric I could apply to each of these strings to determine, without any knowledge of their history, whether or not either of them is the result of intelligent agency. Do you know of such a metric? If so, could you please provide a rigorous mathematical definition for it and some examples of how to calculate it? If such a metric existed, I'd be happy to apply it to your two strings.MathGrrl
March 31, 2011
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vjtorley,
Thank you for your post. Please see my comments in #100 above, paragraph 2.
Comment numbers seem a bit fluid today. I think you are referring to this paragraph:
I’ll have a post up soon on an alternative metric for CSI which is much more hard-nosed and empirical. That should please you and Mathgrrl.
I look forward to seeing that. My question, though, was: "How exactly would one formulate a falsifiable hypothesis for a metric that cannot be measured even in theory?" Based on your recognition that CSI as discussed by Dembski is not "measurable in a laboratory", would you agree that it, as opposed to your forthcoming metric, cannot be used to formulate a falsifiable hypothesis?
You also write:
Either CSI can be calculated without reference to the historical provenance of the object under investigation or that history must be considered. You can’t have it both ways.
In my post, I defended the claim that for an arbitrary complex system, we should be able to calculate its CSI as being (very likely) greater than or equal to some specific number, X, without knowing anything about the history of the system. I should add that when performing this an ahistorical calculation of CSI, duplications occurring within the pattern should be assumed NOT to be independent events. Only later, when we become familiar with the history of the pattern, can we assess whether in fact this assumption is in fact correct or not.
I'm still confused about what you're saying. Either CSI can be calculated without knowing anything about the history of the object or it cannot. By introducing terms such as "independent events" you seem to be suggesting that the history of the object can change the CSI measurement. This is a contradiction of the claim that CSI can be computed ahistorically.MathGrrl
March 31, 2011
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William J. Murray,
if there is no metric that can measure or validate X (ID CSI), how can one reach a finding of not-X?
You are mistaken about the purpose of the scientific method and the use of a null hypothesis. A scientific hypothesis must make testable predictions. The testable prediction of CSI is that it is a reliable indicator of the involvement of intelligent agency. We have seen in another thread that a rigorous mathematical definition of CSI is not readily available, so the prediction cannot be tested in this case. This does not mean that not-X is proven, or even better supported. It simply means that the ID proponents who make claims about CSI have not supported their arguments. The real explanation for biological diversity may still be intelligent agency, it may be modern evolutionary theory, or it may be any of an infinite number of other explanations.MathGrrl
March 31, 2011
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I suspect she does not have a physics-mathematics-physical chemistry backgroun
Seriously? You haven't figured out who Mathgrrl is yet?jon specter
March 31, 2011
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Mel: Prezactly. Gkairosfocus
March 31, 2011
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OOPS: Pardon the half post then full post. I am struggling with net access this morning, and saw an odd error message.kairosfocus
March 31, 2011
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PAV: You seem to be right, or on the right track. Sadly. Had MG simply asked the question the right [straight] way around, we would have had a very different and much more productive discussion. I suspect she does not have a physics-mathematics-physical chemistry background, and has not done much of statistical thermodynamics, the underlying field for all of the issues on the table. BTW, want of such a background is exactly why there has been a major misunderstanding it seems of Hoyle's Tornado in a Junkyard assembles a Jumbo Jet example. He is actually scaling up and using a colourful metaphor on molecular scale interactions, and is giving an equivalent form of the infinite monkeys theorem. But, the issue is not to construct a jumbo jet by a tornado passing through Seattle and hitting a junkyard; it starts long before that. Namely, at even the level of 125 bytes worth of functional information, a relatively small amount to do anything of consequence, we are already well beyond the credible search capacity of our cosmos, once the search is not an intelligent and informed one.
(NOTE: Here, using the idea of assembly of a micro-jet from tiny parts sufficiently small to be subject to random fluctuations in a liquid medium, I scale the matter back down to molecular scale, and enlist brownian motion and nanobots, to draw out the implications in ways that are more in line with what is going on on the molecular scale. What happens is that to clump parts in near vicinity, to click together in any arbitrary fashion, requires a huge amount of specifically directed and information-rich work, as the number of ways of arranging scattered parts vastly outnumbers the number of ways that parts may be clumped. So, parts under brownian forces will be maximally unlikely to spontaneously clump. Then, the number of clumped states vastly outnumbers the number of Wicken functional wiring diagram ones, and in turn, there is a huge directed work input that would be required in the real world to move from clumped to functionally organised states. Notice, this is not dependent on what particular way you do the work, as entropy is a STATE function, not a path function. Indeed, in thermodynamic analysis, it is routine to propose an idealised and unrealistic but analytically convenient path from an initial to a final state to estimate shift in entropy.)
The root problem on understanding the challenge facing chance hypotheses [or chance plus blind mechanical forces] is therefore that the underlying analysis is thermodynamic, specifically, statistical-thermodynamic. As a perusal of the just linked will show, once we have clustering of states discernible by an observer per some macro-variable or other, we move away from an underlying per microstate distribution view. (Notice how MF blunders into exactly this confusion, in his objection that a Royal Flush is no more special or improbable in itself than any arbitrary hand of cards. Of course, the very point of the game is that such a RF is a recognisably special hand indeed, as opposed to the TYPICAL run of the mill. Cf the analysis of hands of cards as already excerpted, and as was presented in the UD weak argument corrective no 27. This analysis was originally brought to MF's attention some years ago, at his earlier blog, in response to a challenge he posed on -- surprise [not] -- calculating values of CSI. So he knows, or should know about it. Let me put that another way: the calculation seen in summary form is in answer to a question posed by MF about three years ago in his Clapham Omnibus blog . . . ) Once we see the implication of recognisable and distinct clusters, with very different relative statistical weights in the set of all possible configs, we then face the question of how likely are we to be in one or the other of these distinct clusters of recognisably distinguish-able states within the wider space of possibilities. Especially, relative to unintelligent processes such as trigger random walks and/or trial and error on arbitrary initial conditions. In particular, we now see the significance of deeply isolated zones of interest, or target- or hot- zones or -- especially -- islands of function, which then can be compared in one way or another to the space of possibilities. And, the question then becomes: how does one best explain arrival at such an island. If a space is sufficiently large, and the available resources are limited, the best explanation of getting to an island, is typically that you have a map and a means of navigation, or there is a beacon that attracts/magnetises attention, or you were wafted there under directed control of forces that push one to an island. That is why I chose the brute-force threshold of 1,000 bits of info-storage capacity, measured as the number of basic yes-no decisions cascaded to specify the system, i.e. its wiring diagram. As I showed in outline here, any particular wiring diagram can be reduced to a specifying list of the network, on its nodes, arcs and interfaces. In particular, textual sequences of symbols are functionally ordered strings wired together like so: S-T-R-I-N-G-S. For, 1,000 basic yes/no decisions specifies a space of 1.07*10^301 possibilities. Whether by converting the entire cosmos into terrestrial planets orbiting appropriate class stars in the right habitable zones, with banana plantations and armies of monkeys banging away at keyboards in cubicles, or otherwise, it can be shown that the number of possibilities for the observed cosmos across its thermodynamic lifespan [~ 50 mn times longer than is held to have already lapsed since the big bang] would not exceed 10^150 possibilities. And as Abel shows through his per-reviewed, published universal, galactic and solar system level plausibility analysis -- which again MG shows no sign of profitably interacting with [she should also look at the Durston analysis here and the underlying FSC, RSC OSC analysis here] -- one planet would be far, far less than that. 10^150 is 1 in 10^151 of 1.07*10^301. In short, a cosmic scope search rounds down very nicely to zero scale. The best comparison I can think of is to mark a single atom at random in our cosmos for 10^-45 s [about as fast as a physical process can conceivably happen]. Then, imagine a lottery where a single atom is to be picked at random, any time, any place in the cosmos, on just one trial. 1 in 10^150 is the odds of picking that single marked atom just when it is marked. The odds of that are practically zero. So once functional states based on wiring diagram organisation are rare in the space of possibilities [which is known to be so], no unintelligent search on the gamut of the cosmos is likely ever to hit upon any such island of function. Especially, one based on a metabolising entity integrated with a coded, stored information based von Neumann self-replicating facility, that reasonably requires at least 10 - 100,000 bytes of information based on analysis of requisites of observed life. Remember, such a vNSR implicates an irreducibly complex entity involving:
(i) an underlying storable code to record the required information to create not only (a) the primary functional machine [[ . . . in a cell this would be the metabolic entity that transforms environmental materials into required components etc.] but also (b) the self-replicating facility; and, that (c) can express step by step finite procedures for using the facility; (ii) a coded blueprint/tape record of such specifications and (explicit or implicit) instructions, together with (iii) a tape reader [[called “the constructor” by von Neumann] that reads and interprets the coded specifications and associated instructions; thus controlling: (iv) position-arm implementing machines with “tool tips” controlled by the tape reader and used to carry out the action-steps for the specified replication (including replication of the constructor itself); backed up by (v) either:
(1) a pre-existing reservoir of required parts and energy sources, or (2) associated “metabolic” machines carrying out activities that as a part of their function, can provide required specific materials/parts and forms of energy for the replication facility, by using the generic resources in the surrounding environment.
Also, parts (ii), (iii) and (iv) are each necessary for and together are jointly sufficient to implement a self-replicating machine with an integral von Neumann universal constructor. That is, we see here an irreducibly complex set of core components that must all be present in a properly organised fashion for a successful self-replicating machine to exist. [[Take just one core part out, and self-replicating functionality ceases: the self-replicating machine is irreducibly complex (IC).]
And, yes, I am agreeing with Orgel, Wicken, Yockey, Hoyle et al that the origin of life based on the C-Chemistry, self-replicating cell is absolutely pivotal in all our considerations on scientific exploration of origins. I also notice hints of the long since abandoned biochemical predestination thesis of Kenyon, put up in 1969. Directly, if biochemistry and life-functional DNA and/or protein chains are written into the underlying physics that drives the creation, abundance and environments of H, He, C, O and N -- the main atoms involved -- then that would be the ultimate proof that the laws of physics are a program designed to create life. But in fact, the strong evidence is that for both D/RNA and proteins, there are no stringent constraints on chaining sufficient to account for the information. This was already investigated by Bradley et al in the mid 1980's, and is a big part of why Kenyon chose to take the opportunity of writing a preface to The Mystery of Life's Origin [the first technical ID work] to recant publicly from biochemical predestination. Non-starter. So, you can easily see why I am so deeply suspicious of the tendency to want to sweep this issue under the carpet in analyses on origin of biologically functional complex wiring diagram based organisation and related information. The OOL question must not be begged; it decides the balance of plausibilities. The only credible alternatives are: intelligently directed search or an effectively infinite array of sub-cosmi, such that the search space challenge is overwhelmed by having infinite monkeys, so to speak. Of such a quasi-infinity of sub-cosmi, there is nowhere the faintest empirical trace. But, routinely, we know intelligences create FSCI. So, we have excellent inductive and analytical reason to infer from FSCI to intelligence as its most reasonable source. Going up to the origin of body plans, we are dealing with large scale additional increments of functional information, expressed starting with the embryo,and generally speaking assembling new wiring diagrams [body plans] that imply much larger sets of possibilities and much deeper isolation of islands of function. Can such be assembles incrementally, step by step by trial and error -- chance variation, plus culling on differential reproductive success of sub populations and related mechanisms -- that improves function until a transformational change appears? On the face of it, utterly implausible. To see why, consider the challenge to transform a Hello World into ev or a similar complex program, step by step, improving or even just preserving function all along the way. I think the program would break down at the first complex loop with a count or comparison constraint. For, such is irreducibly complex and would not arise by increments or by co-opting something else. Similarly "See Spot run" is not transmuted into a Doctoral dissertation step by trial and error step, preserving function all the way. To move from hello world to ev or from see spot run to a PhD dissertation requires a lot of learning, and serious, information-rich, knowledgeable intelligent input. So, if MG or others are prepared to argue that chance variation and natural selection etc account for the origin of dozens of body plans starting with the Cambrian era fossil life forms, then it is incumbent on them to show this empirically. Just as, those who claim that a perpetual motion machine of the second kind is feasible, need to show this in the teeth of the existing body of observations and analysis. (And yes, I am claiming that at micro level, there is a reasonable connexion between thermodynamic analysis and information issues. Cf the summary in appendix 1 my always linked, as was linked in the above already.) So, far, they have not been forthcoming. GEM of TKIkairosfocus
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