Uncommon Descent Serving The Intelligent Design Community

Why Up When Down is Just As Good And A Lot Easier?

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Phinehas asks Neil Rickert a fascinating question about the supposed direction of evolution.  Neil says he will address it in a separate thread, and I started this one for that purpose.  The rest of the post is Phenehas’ question to Neil:

@Neil I also appreciate the professional tone. I am a skeptic regarding what evolution can actually accomplish. In keeping with your demonstrated patience, I’d be grateful if you would give serious consideration to something that keeps tripping me up. I’ve often thought of natural selection as the heuristic to random mutations’ exhaustive search.

A path-finding algorithm can be aided in finding a path from point A to point B by using distance to B as a heuristic to narrow the search space. Without a heuristic, you are left to blind chance. It is said that evolution has no purpose or goal, so there is no point B. It is also claimed that evolution isn’t simply the result of blind chance, so a heuristic would seem to be required. Somehow, natural selection is supposed to address both of these concerns. Nature selects for fitness, we are told, so somehow we have a heuristic even without a point B.

But what is fitness? How does it work as a heuristic? How is it defined? Evidently, it is all about reproductive success. But how does one measure reproductive success? This is where things get fuzzy for me. Surely evolution is a story about the rise of more and more complex organisms. Isn’t this how the tree of life is laid out? Surely it is the complexity of highly developed organisms that evolution seeks to explain. Surely Mt. Improbable has man near its peak and bacteria near its base. But by what metric is man more successful at reproducing than bacteria? If I am a sponge somewhere between the two extremes, how is a step toward bacteria any less of a point B for me than a step toward man? Why should the fitness heuristic prefer a step upward in complexity toward man in any way whatsoever over a step downward in complexity toward bacteria?

It seems that, under the more obvious metrics for calculating reproductive success, bacteria are hard to beat. Even more, a rise in complexity, if anything, would appear to lead to less reproductive success and not more. So how can natural selection be any sort of heuristic for helping us climb Mt Improbable’s complexity when every simpler organism at the base of the mountain is at least as fit in passing on its genes as the more complex organisms near it’s peak? And without this heuristic, how are we not back to a blind, exhaustive search?

Comments
Why, I had a fossil I was holding transition into dust just the other day. Ain't transitional fossils just grand proof of Macro-Evolutionary Theory? Pile up enough itty-bitty transitional fossils and you get proof of Nick's relevance!Mung
April 2, 2013
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Hi Nick, Can I read about "transitional fossils" in that textbook on Macro-Evolutionary Theory that you seem incapable of producing? Aren't all fossils transitional?Mung
March 31, 2013
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In what way is natural selection non-random? Is it non-random in the sense that every time you have differential reproduction due to heritable chance variation, you have natural selection? That type of "non-random"? Ernst Mayr said whatever is good enough, and when sexual selection is involved, opinions on what is good enough vary a great deal. :) Is that non-random? You know the type of non-random you get with bird shot from a sawed-off shotgun. Not that I would know what that is. ;) Non-random in the sense that fatal and severely deletrious variations get weeded out? That type of non-random? Or non-random in the sense that no one can really 'splain it, they just know it is? Anyone?Joe
March 31, 2013
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It maintains that an unplanned, purposeless, largely stochastic process (and before you say it, yes we all know that natural selection is nonrandom, but it can only work with what random mutation provides for it, so the stochastic part of the equation really has to do much of the heavy lifting) can construct sophisticated systems for processing digital information, build intricate and tightly balanced micro-machinery, produce signal transduction systems that operate at the outer limits of what is physically possible in our universe, and so on and so on ad nauseam.
To bring this full circle, even if natural selection saves the process from being random, it can only nudge organisms toward fitness, which may well run counter to the complexity of more intricate and sophisticated systems, making the arrival of such through largely stochastic means even more unlikely.Phinehas
March 31, 2013
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Nick @ 94
That kind of bogus extrapolation is exactly what creationists/IDists/whatevers are doing when they sit on the couch, think about evolution for a moment, decide that since they haven’t personally observed X, X must be effectively impossible even over millions/billions of years
While your description of Darwin-skepticism rises only to the level of a crude caricature, it is true that many (including myself) place great stress on the empirical foundation (or lack thereof) of Neo-Darwinism. This is not wrong. On the contrary, this is what healthy skepticism looks like. The grand claims of Neo-Darwinism are positively staggering from an engineering viewpoint. It maintains that an unplanned, purposeless, largely stochastic process (and before you say it, yes we all know that natural selection is nonrandom, but it can only work with what random mutation provides for it, so the stochastic part of the equation really has to do much of the heavy lifting) can construct sophisticated systems for processing digital information, build intricate and tightly balanced micro-machinery, produce signal transduction systems that operate at the outer limits of what is physically possible in our universe, and so on and so on ad nauseam. Necessarily the Neo-Darwinian explanation for the diversity of the biosphere requires that something like an amoeba can gradually become a cheetah or a giant squid or an albatross. This is said to take place step by infinitesimal step, each one not only maintaining but improving fitness. Has anyone anywhere at any time ever witnessed anything that would give sufficient empirical grounding to such claims? If so, I would love to know what that observation is. If not, then what requires me to affirm the truthfulness of those claims? For that matter, why on earth would any rational, critical thinker accept those claims without very compelling evidence? Further, how do you reconcile your belief in the practically infinite plasticity of biological forms with the mountains of empirical data from breeding experiments that suggest that there seem to be limits to how far populations can change? There certainly is "bogus extrapolation" going on. It is in your willfully-blinded mind.Optimus
March 29, 2013
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That kind of bogus extrapolation is exactly what creationists/IDists/whatevers are doing when they sit on the couch, think about evolution for a moment, decide that since they haven’t personally observed X, X must be effectively impossible even over millions/billions of years.
That would be an argument from incredulity I suppose, more than an actual extrapolation. But the evolutionist asks me to extrapolate (and sometimes to use my imagination!) from what we can directly observe to what we have not directly observed. That's the part I'm questioning--and at the moment, the magnitude of the extrapolation request. For relatively simple things such as the motion of a body in space, we can extrapolate over many orders of magnitude and have few concerns. (Although it might be worth noting that even Newtonian physics, which works great for human-sized systems, breaks down when you get 10-15 orders of magnitude away, requiring relativistic and quantum modifications to remain applicable.) But as the complexity of the system in question goes up, our ability to predict rapidly goes down. Meteorology, computer science, any area of physics featuring chaotic behavior, and probably many other areas, are each a totally different ball game at scales only a couple of orders of magnitude away from another that we think we understand. I cannot think of an area of science that features the complexity of living things, where we have a demonstrable ability to extrapolate as far back as evolutionists do beyond the directly observable. The following perspective will have to save the day:
For example, we now have good chains of transitional fossils for a great many major transitions. So what scientists are doing is interpolation more than extrapolation.
Yes, having made the necessary assumptions about molecular malleability (i.e., their unobserved ability to change as much as necessary) and then lining up the fossils neatly, it looks as if interpolation is all that's left to do. Many careers rest on that. But at the foundation is an extrapolation. It had to come first. Even in a house of cards, some cards are closer to the bottom.EDTA
March 29, 2013
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Mr. Matzke claims:
That’s not really true. For example, we now have good chains of transitional fossils for a great many major transitions.
That's simply not true. For instance, the infamous whale transitionals that Darwinists keep touting are found to be bogus:
Whale Evolution vs. The Actual Evidence – video - fraudulent fossils revealed http://vimeo.com/30921402
same for birds:
Bird Evolution vs. The Actual Evidence - video and notes http://vimeo.com/30926629
further notes:
Bat Evolution? - No Transitional Fossils! - video http://www.metacafe.com/watch/6003501/ The Unknown Origin of Pterosaurs - video http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XP6htc371fM Fish & Dinosaur Evolution vs. The Actual Evidence - video and notes http://vimeo.com/30932397 More of Nature's Dusty Evolutionary Gems - podcast (debunking whale evolution, feathered dinosaurs, and Tiktaalik) http://intelligentdesign.podomatic.com/entry/2012-07-27T17_26_06-07_00
In the following video, from 15:05 minute mark to 19:15 minute mark, Phillip Johnson notes a very strange inconsistency in where the Darwinian fossil evidence is found:
Phillip Johnson - "Gould and Eldridge were experts in an area where the fossil record is most complete, "marine invertebrates", and developed the theory of Punctuated Equilibrium in response to what they saw in the fossil record in that area of research. Whereas, interestingly, the greatest claim for transitional fossils, such as ape-men, comes primarily from the area where fossilization is rarest, from land animals - April 2012 - video http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FJDlBvbPSMA&feature=player_detailpage#t=903s
Here are some quotes by leading paleontologists on the true state of the fossil record:
"The point emerges that if we examine the fossil record in detail, whether at the level of orders or of species, we find' over and over again' not gradual evolution, but the sudden explosion of one group at the expense of another." Paleontologist, Derek V. Ager (Department of Geology & Oceonography, University College, Swansea, UK) "It must be significant that nearly all the evolutionary stories I learned as a student from Trueman's Ostrea/Gryphaea to Carruthers' Zaphrentis delanouei, have now been 'debunked'. Similarly, my own experience [sic] of more than twenty years looking for evolutionary lineages among the Mesozoic Brachiopoda has proved them equally elusive.' Dr. Derek V. Ager (Department of Geology & Oceonography, University College, Swansea, UK), 'The nature of the fossil record'. Proceedings of the Geologists' Association, vol.87(2), 1976,p.132. "A major problem in proving the theory has been the fossil record; the imprints of vanished species preserved in the Earth's geological formations. This record has never revealed traces of Darwin's hypothetical intermediate variants - instead species appear and disappear abruptly, and this anomaly has fueled the creationist argument that each species was created by God." Paleontologist, Mark Czarnecki "There is no need to apologize any longer for the poverty of the fossil record. In some ways, it has become almost unmanageably rich and discovery is outpacing integration. The fossil record nevertheless continues to be composed mainly of gaps." T. Neville George - Professor of paleontology - Glasgow University "Evolution requires intermediate forms between species and paleontology does not provide them." David Kitts - Paleontologist - D.B. Kitts, Paleontology and Evolutionary Theory (1974), p. 467. "The long-term stasis, following a geologically abrupt origin, of most fossil morphospecies, has always been recognized by professional paleontologists" – Stephen Jay Gould - Harvard "Given the fact of evolution, one would expect the fossils to document a gradual steady change from ancestral forms to the descendants. But this is not what the paleontologist finds. Instead, he or she finds gaps in just about every phyletic series." - Ernst Mayr-Professor Emeritus, Museum of Comparative Zoology at Harvard University "What is missing are the many intermediate forms hypothesized by Darwin, and the continual divergence of major lineages into the morphospace between distinct adaptive types." Robert L Carroll (born 1938) - vertebrate paleontologist who specialises in Paleozoic and Mesozoic amphibians "Now, after over 120 years of the most extensive and painstaking geological exploration of every continent and ocean bottom, the picture is infinitely more vivid and complete than it was in 1859. Formations have been discovered containing hundreds of billions of fossils and our museums now are filled with over 100 million fossils of 250,000 different species. The availability of this profusion of hard scientific data should permit objective investigators to determine if Darwin was on the right track. What is the picture which the fossils have given us? ... The gaps between major groups of organisms have been growing even wider and more undeniable. They can no longer be ignored or rationalized away with appeals to imperfection of the fossil record." Luther D. Sunderland, Darwin's Enigma 1988, Fossils and Other Problems, 4th edition, Master Books, p. 9 "The evidence we find in the geological record is not nearly as compatible with Darwinian natural selection as we would like it to be .... We now have a quarter of a million fossil species but the situation hasn't changed much. The record of evolution is surprisingly jerky and, ironically, we have even fewer examples of evolutionary transition than in Darwin's time ... so Darwin's problem has not been alleviated". David Raup, Curator of Geology at Chicago's Field Museum of Natural History "In virtually all cases a new taxon appears for the first time in the fossil record with most definitive features already present, and practically no known stem-group forms." Fossils and Evolution, TS Kemp - Curator of Zoological Collections, Oxford University, Oxford Uni Press, p246, 1999 "Every paleontologist knows that most new species, genera, and families, and that nearly all categories above the level of family appear in the record suddenly and are not led up to by known, gradual, completely continuous transitional sequences.” George Gaylord Simpson (evolutionist), The Major Features of Evolution, New York, Columbia University Press, 1953 p. 360. "No wonder paleontologists shied away from evolution for so long. It seems never to happen. Assiduous collecting up cliff faces yields zigzags, minor oscillations, and the very occasional slight accumulation of change over millions of years, at a rate too slow to really account for all the prodigious change that has occurred in evolutionary history. When we do see the introduction of evolutionary novelty, it usually shows up with a bang, and often with no firm evidence that the organisms did not evolve elsewhere! Evolution cannot forever be going on someplace else. Yet that's how the fossil record has struck many a forlorn paleontologist looking to learn something about evolution." - Niles Eldredge , "Reinventing Darwin: The Great Evolutionary Debate," 1996, p.95 "Enthusiastic paleontologists in several countries have claimed pieces of this missing record, but the claims have all been disputed and in any case do not provide real connections. That brings me to the second most surprising feature of the fossil record...the abruptness of some of the major changes in the history of life." Ager, D. - Author of "The Nature of the Stratigraphical Record"-1981 "The extreme rarity of transitional forms in the fossil record persists as the trade secret of paleontology." Stephen Jay Gould
bornagain77
March 29, 2013
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Excuse me, I meant Matzke.William J Murray
March 29, 2013
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Nick Matke appears immune to correction on this matter. I've already directed him to the FAQ on this site that clearly states that ID and common descent are fully compatible.William J Murray
March 29, 2013
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And BTW fossils do NOT say anything about a mechanism. IOW you falsely extrapolate the fossil evidence to equal blind watchmaker evolution. Nice job, ace.Joe
March 29, 2013
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Nick Matzke:
That’s not really true. For example, we now have good chains of transitional fossils for a great many major transitions.
But still no genetic evidence to support the transformations. Ya see Nick, your position's problem is that you think DNA is some sort of magical molecule that you can change to get new body plans tat require new body parts. Unfortunately evo-devo hasn't borne that out.Joe
March 29, 2013
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As a possible response, I can imagine an evolutionist arguing that “we have observed for more than 150 years. We have good evidence of small-scale change over the last few thousand years. The evidence is more scant as time scales grow, but the picture remains consistent. Therefore all our extrapolating is valid and there is evidence that it is correct.” But that’s not entirely satisfactory, because as the evidence thins out, they’re filling in more of the gaps with their stories. The weight of the evidence shrinks rapidly as the time scales increase.
That's not really true. For example, we now have good chains of transitional fossils for a great many major transitions. So what scientists are doing is interpolation more than extrapolation. It's the creationists that are inappropriately extrapolating, namely extrapolating from their pitifully tiny, incredibly biased and poorly researched third-hand knowledge base.NickMatzke_UD
March 29, 2013
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This got me to thinking about science, mathematics, and just when/how we are justified in extrapolating from our data. Clearly no statistician would graph data, draw a line through the points, and then extend that line 7 orders of magnitude to the right and expect to have anything useful as a result.
That kind of bogus extrapolation is exactly what creationists/IDists/whatevers are doing when they sit on the couch, think about evolution for a moment, decide that since they haven't personally observed X, X must be effectively impossible even over millions/billions of years. (Where X is the evolution of new genetic "information", or whatever.)NickMatzke_UD
March 29, 2013
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Eric, I am reading James Shapiro's "Evolution: A View from the 21st Century"- it appears that genetic change is guided in many instances. But he thinks all that evolved too- the guidance system. But anyway- "Not By Chance" is a must read for IDists and evos. It puts the whole debate into perspective, ie it demonstrates that those who oppose evolutionism do not oppose evolution. We just oppose the idea that the blind watchmaker is behind all the changes. And Shapiro's book expands on Spetner's ideas with more data. Yeah, he didn't mean to and he thinks it all evolved but I know if Spetner reads Shapiro he will be all smiles.Joe
March 29, 2013
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Joe, I think you raise some interesting points about the possibility of "evolution" being guided in some instances. It is important, however, to distinguish between the mere possibility of guidance (which, arguably could exist across a vast spectrum) and those cases in which we are justified, on the evidence of inferring design (according to the probability calculations -- say 500-1000 bit threshold).Eric Anderson
March 29, 2013
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Phinehas, If you want to know about evolutionism, just ask. I will not only answer your questions but I will also provide supporting references as required. The ilk over on TSZ isn't interested in an open and honest discussion. All they care about is protecting their dogma.Joe
March 29, 2013
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For example Phinehas, transposons carry within their sequence the coding for two of the enzymes it requires to move around. It is all in one nice package. And then there are many mutations which occur only when instructed to by the cell. Dr James Shapiro calls it "natural genetic engineering"- Dr Spetner calls it "built-in responses to environmental cues".Joe
March 29, 2013
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Actually they are not all random wrt function and being random wrt function does not = blind and undirected. other mouth
For the benefit of Phinehas, could you describe if it is possible, even if only in theory, to determine if a single mutation was random or if the intelligent designer was in fact involved?
Nice strawman- however Phnihas, please read "Not By Chance" by Dr Lee Spetner. It does what the other mouth requests. OTOH the other mouth cannot describe, even if only in theory, to determine if a single mutation was random or directed. The evo position doesn't have any methodology.Joe
March 29, 2013
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Evolutionary Extrapolation Defended Seven orders by Maggie to punch Darwin's tickets? No problem at all . . . you pathetic hick, it's so common, you goof, and here is our proof -- Um, let's see, . . uh . [chirping crickets]Tim
March 28, 2013
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Nick @22 wrote:
Or #2: total failure to think over many orders of magnitude of timescale, geographic scale, organism size scales, etc.
This got me to thinking about science, mathematics, and just when/how we are justified in extrapolating from our data. Clearly no statistician would graph data, draw a line through the points, and then extend that line 7 orders of magnitude to the right and expect to have anything useful as a result. (I take it that since Darwin is ~150 years ago, and life supposedly began 3.8 Gya, that we're talking about extrapolating ~7 orders of magnitude back in time from our ability to closely observe.) I'm not just asking where scientists deal with quantities over that range. Physicists and astronomers do that all the time. I'm asking in what areas do investigational/empirical scientists observe at one level, and validly extrapolate to things they cannot empirically confirm that are many orders of magnitude beyond. As a possible response, I can imagine an evolutionist arguing that "we have observed for more than 150 years. We have good evidence of small-scale change over the last few thousand years. The evidence is more scant as time scales grow, but the picture remains consistent. Therefore all our extrapolating is valid and there is evidence that it is correct." But that's not entirely satisfactory, because as the evidence thins out, they're filling in more of the gaps with their stories. The weight of the evidence shrinks rapidly as the time scales increase. Yes, I can extrapolate. But at some point, that becomes little more than my ability to imagine. Or the ability of thousands of scientists to collectively imagine. So as a serious question for the varied readers out there: In what other areas of human inquiry do we extrapolate over 7 orders of magnitude from our direct observations to things we cannot directly confirm, and not even bat an eye at the conclusions?EDTA
March 28, 2013
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Phinehas,
"Again, I’m not an expert on probabilities, but this doesn’t sound quite right to me. I’d think that any given atom being exactly where it is right now is awfully close to a 100% probability. Similarly, if I deal you five random cards, I would think the odds of you having five random cards is pretty well guaranteed. On the other hand, the odds of you having a specified set of cards will depend on the specification (i.e. a “flush”, a “full house”, etc.)"
You are correct. One needn't be an expert on probability to see that if we define a specification for a poker hand as "any 1 of the possible 2,598,960 poker hands" then we've defined a set of events that is equal to the set of all poker hands. In this case, it's certainly no surprise that such a hand is dealt, since the probability for the event is exactly 1. This differs entirely from the probability of being dealt a flush for instance. I'm quite surprised that an argument with regard to the certainty of an improbable event is still frequently employed to argue against the improbability of a specific event. By the logic implied in the quote you provided, we should be no more surprised to see a royal flush than we are to see any other hand, since all five-card combinations are equally improbable. This reasoning ignores specification; and whenever it goes unchallenged by proponents of Darwinian evolution, we are reminded that no argument against design inferences is too ridiculous. One has to wonder why these categorically improper applications of certain improbabilities, in answer to specification, are not embarrassing to our opponents, and dealt with on their side. BTW argument was used by Ken Miller: VideoChance Ratcliff
March 27, 2013
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In #67, Alan Fox explains where he disagrees with me. I still think this is mainly miscommunication. What Alan does not like, is my statement "I see the population as exploring the environment." And he wants to illustrate this using plants as an example. When I look around, I notice seedlings trying to grow in the most unlikely places, such as between paving blocks or in cracks in the driveway. This is an example of what I consider exploring. The plant population has evolved means of randomly dispersing its seed in way that would seem to work for finding new fertile places to grow.Neil Rickert
March 27, 2013
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TSZ seems unresponsive at the moment.
What do you mean "at the moment"?Joe
March 27, 2013
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TSZ seems unresponsive at the moment. I suppose I can try to continue the conversation here for now. OMagain:
It is improbable. It’s very improbable. Likewise, the chance of any given atom being exactly where it is right now is also improbable. Yet all atoms are somewhere, despite that improbability.
Again, I'm not an expert on probabilities, but this doesn't sound quite right to me. I'd think that any given atom being exactly where it is right now is awfully close to a 100% probability. :) Similarly, if I deal you five random cards, I would think the odds of you having five random cards is pretty well guaranteed. On the other hand, the odds of you having a specified set of cards will depend on the specification (i.e. a "flush", a "full house", etc.) At first, it might seem unintuitive to talk about probabilities after the fact, since, as you say, we get dealt the cards we get dealt. But when you start trying to explain how someone got dealt the cards in their hand, probability becomes helpful once again. For instance, if I sit down with you for a game of poker and (somehow) get dealt three royal flushes in the first three hands, you'd be forgiven for turning back to probabilities to try to consider exactly how I ended up with these cards, even though you knew that any other particular set of cards would have been just as improbable.
I’ll ask again, have you actually read Dawkin’s book CMI?
I've always preferred dialectic methods, especially when addressing skepticism, since I typically find myself with lots of questions.Phinehas
March 27, 2013
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How to test the claim that unguided evolution produced humans: Humans exist by way of evolution and evolution is unguided. Brilliant in it's simplicity...Joe
March 27, 2013
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Alan Fox @68 I wrote:
So do you notice that there is an apparent and implied correlation between fitness and complexity with regard to evolutionary theory and the presumed Darwinian progression from simple to complex life forms?
You replied,
"It follows from how niches are available and get filled. Prokaryotes are enormously successful in terms of biomass, filling all the niches that are available to them. "
So niches get filled by the process of evolution. We know a given niche exist by which species fills it. If there is a species, then there is an ecological niche which it fills.
"Exploitation of novel niches may indeed involve additions to (shall we say) the original design."
So evolution proceeds by exploitation of niches. We can know an ecological niche by the fact that a species fills it. If complexity is observed, then we know that it was required by that niche.
"It is just not a prerequisite, nor is it inevitable."
So evolution is completely directionless. It proceeds in no definite direction, or any direction, or whichever direction it needs to proceed in. What we observe is explicable in terms of evolution, which is a process capable of creating what we observe.
" (I’m tempted to add, otherwise, why are there still bacteria, but I’ll resist!)"
Well it's a good thing you didn't mention it then. In summary, it is not necessary nor likely for evolution to produce complexity. It just happened to do so because certain ecological niches favor complex species over simple ones. This makes sense. We can then, for example, say that aquatic creatures have complex features specific to being viable in aquatic environments, because those features were required in order for species to fill those niches. This sort of raw explanatory power is intoxicating.Chance Ratcliff
March 27, 2013
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OT: Hey Lizzie, if you happen to be monitoring this thread, I'm suddenly getting... Forbidden You don't have permission to access /wp/wp-comments-post.php on this server. Additionally, a 404 Not Found error was encountered while trying to use an ErrorDocument to handle the request.Phinehas
March 27, 2013
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Alan Fox:
There is no guided search (if evolution is true).
Only wrt unguided/ blind watchmaker evolution. If Intelligent Design Evolution is true then evolution is guided, with random effects sprinkled about.Joe
March 27, 2013
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WJM 74, I dropped a full plate of food when I read:
“survival of those with the highest survival rate.”
hilarious ...Box
March 27, 2013
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Can anyone please explain to me how the analogy of climbing up Mt. Improbable is supposed to prove Darwinian Evolution? Has anyone even attempted to climb a mountain without intelligence, skills/tools, awareness of each and every single step etc...? Are there simply so many paths (infinite perhaps?) to reach the "top" which renders it highly probable? It doesn't seem likely that an unguided and/or undirected random process that relies explicitly on the condition "if survive" or no destruction (how niwrad puts it) would be capable of climbing Mt. Improbable even once. Each step would likely be a "death step". Where does Darwinism fill in this gap where it increases its own probability? We are obviously not dealing with an easy path up Mt. Improbable which is attainable by simple incremental steps.computerist
March 27, 2013
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AM
PDT
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