Wuhan ID Research Funded by Feds

_{Barry Arrington

May 28, 2021

Intelligent Design}

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See story here. A government probe last year into the origins of the coronavirus found practically no evidence COVID-19 originated from nature, former State Department official David Asher told Fox News on Thursday.

“We were finding that despite the claims of our scientific community, including the National Institutes of Health and Dr. Fauci’s NIAID organization, there was almost no evidence that supported a natural, zoonotic evolution or source of COVID-19,” he told “America Reports.” . . .

Asher, the lead contractor on the subject, said the team investigated the two chief hypotheses for the virus’ origins, the other being the lab-leak theory that has gained credence after widespread media dismissal over the past year. . . .

“The data disproportionately stacked up as we investigated that it was coming out of a lab or some supernatural source,” he said.

Comments

Seversky, here's the thing... Most people here realize that you reason like an English major and not like an engineer. You're kind of a dipsh*t. What do you hope to gain here? Just curious. Love and kisses, K.Karen McMannus_{June 10, 2021
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racist appeal talking about Kung-flu and the China virus
Someone needs to inform this guy that A) "China" does not refer to a "race" but rather a country; B) Trump was pointing the finger at the Chinese govt, not the Chinese people in general; C) "Kung flu" is a funny of take off of Kung Fu. Relatively Asians and Chinese people actually practice Kung Fu. Probably more practitioners in the USA than China. D) Get over yourself Karl and stop looking for "racists" under every rock.Karen McMannus_{June 9, 2021
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Denyse You may want to read this. It’s all about Canada and C19. Very long. https://www.juliusruechel.com/2021/05/the-lies-exposed-by-numbers-fear.htmljerry_{May 31, 2021
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Jerry Thanks for posting that info. If I remember correctly you took a lot of crap from JVL, Sev and others. Who are the fools now? As to Jail not only Fauci but that Dozak guy is a POS. The lies, deceit and corruption y our medical community .have participated in is beyond belief. The media that now are blaming Trump for their criminal malfeasance and lack of investigative journalism is beyond the pale as well. Unfortunately we will never know or have definitive proof. The money interests and China will make sure of that. Vivid Ivividbleau_{May 30, 2021
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It’s now almost a month since the Nicholas Wade article hit. C19 is so obviously designed it’s embarrassing anyone is denying it. https://nicholaswade.medium.com/origin-of-covid-following-the-clues-6f03564c038 First discussed here May 5th. https://uncommondescent.com/intelligent-design/mice-from-opposite-coasts-of-north-america-show-same-the-changes-in-genes/#comment-729739 Crimes against humanity for Fauci?jerry_{May 30, 2021
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Sev Even ABC is engaged in what you call a “conspiracy theory” is George Karl xenophobic? ABC News’ Jon Karl said Sunday on “This Week” that even though he thought former President Donald Trump made a “racist appeal talking” regarding China’s connection to COVID-19, some things he said may be true like the coronavirus pandemic likely came from a leak at a lab in China. Anchor Martha Raddatz said, “I want to turn to COVID. We talked about COVID this week, and travel is up again, and the numbers of COVID cases are way down, but a lot of talk this week about the origin of COVID, again. Tom Cotton especially and many people in the Trump administration said it originated in the lab in Wuhan, China, not with bats. They’re taking a second look at that. Some people have egg on their face, and why does this matter?” Karl said, “Well, I mean, look, it matters for the same reason we were talking about the January 6 commission. We should find out what happened. This is one of the greatest crises our country has ever faced, and the world has ever faced. We need to know how it started. I think a lot of people have egg on their face. This was an idea that was first put forward by Mike Pompeo, Secretary of State of Donald Trump.” He added, “Look, some things may be true even if Donald Trump said them. And there was because Donald Trump was saying so much else. It was just out of control. Because he was, you know, making a frankly racist appeal talking about Kung-flu and the China virus, his notion put forward — or no, he said flatly this came from that lab, and it was widely dismissed. But actually, there is some real reason — we don’t know, by the way, we still don’t know, we absolutely don’t know— but now serious people are saying it needs a serious inquiry.” Vividvividbleau_{May 30, 2021
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“Subsequent work suggests that the virus did not originate in the Wuhan market but was circulating in Wuhan in November 2019 among a small number of people who were not associated with the market” Who were these people associated with Sev? “I think we should be cautious about all information coming through the popular press and internet sources, especially those with a political axe to grind” LMAO!! Vivid.vividbleau_{May 30, 2021
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Kairosfocus/12
Sev, we are seeing a live case of the design inference in action, complete with bias against the inference.
If you call a conspiracy theory a case of design inference then I suppose it is. But it's based on the flimsiest of evidence and driven much more by xenophobia than the scientific data. And zoonotic transmission is nowhere near as sexy a story as a secret Chinese bio-weapon.
What is suggested is, evidence of art not blind chance and/or mechanical necessity.
Suggestion, yes. Evidence, no.
The existence of such a virus it seems, is far more credible on design than by natural undirected forces.
No, it isn't. Not at this point. We have plenty of evidence of many viruses circulating in host species reservoirs. We have plenty of evidence of viruses that mutate naturally and frequently, sometimes into human pathogens. This is a much more likely source than a lab leak.
Then we come to the question of leaks from labs, safety protocols and more. Lurking, was there malfeasance or gross negligence? On the part of technical funders, as such research in the US would likely have faced extremely hostile scrutiny, was off-shoring it responsible?
There have been a disturbing number of failures in laboratories handling biohazardous materials so the possibility of a leak cannot be ruled out. There is a case for an open and rigorous investigation of the management and practices at the Wuhan laboratory if only to rule out the possibility of a leak. Whether the Chinese authorities will permit such an investigation is another question. Was the research being off-shored? Wuhan is apparently not the only laboratory conducting gain-of-function research. There was a reference to a facility in Kentucky and I would not be surprised to hear that there are labs in Europe and almost certainly Russia doing much the same thing.
Given who that points to, how much of what we have been told since January last year can be regarded with any significant credibility at this point?
I think we should be cautious about all information coming through the popular press and internet sources, especially those with a political axe to grinSeversky_{May 30, 2021
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From Larry Moran's blog Sandwalk
The SARS-CoV-2 reference genome

Chinese scientists isolated virus particles from a patient admitted to hospital on December 26, 2019 in Wuhan, China. The RNA genome was sequenced and the sequence was immediately distributed to interested scientists around the world. It was submitted to GenBank on January 5, 2020 and appeared as entry NC_045512 on January 13, 2020 [Wuhan seafood market pneumonia virus isolate Wuhan-Hu-1, complete genome].

The sequence was extensively mapped and analyzed by Chinese scientists in Shanghai, Wuhan, and Beijing, and Ed Holmes in Sydney, Australia and the results were submitted to Nature on January 7, 2020 and published on February 3, 2020.

Wu, F., Zhao, S., Yu, B., Chen, Y.-M., Wang, W., Song, Z.-G., Hu, Y., Tao, Z.-W., Tian, J.-H., Pei, Y.-Y., Yuan, M.-L., Zhang, Y.-L., Dai, F.-H., Liu, Y., Wang, Q.-M., Zheng, J.-J., Xu, L., Holmes, E.C. and Zhang, Y.-Z. (2020) A new coronavirus associated with human respiratory disease in China. Nature 579:265-269. [doi: 10.1038/s41586-020-2008-3] Emerging infectious diseases, such as severe acute respiratory syndrome (SARS) and Zika virus disease, present a major threat to public health1–3. Despite intense research efforts, how, when and where new diseases appear are still a source of considerable uncertainty. A severe respiratory disease was recently reported in Wuhan, Hubei province, China. As of 25 January 2020, at least 1,975 cases had been reported since the first patient was hospitalized on 12 December 2019. Epidemiological investigations have suggested that the outbreak was associated with a seafood market in Wuhan. Here we study a single patient who was a worker at the market and who was admitted to the Central Hospital of Wuhan on 26 December 2019 while experiencing a severe respiratory syndrome that included fever, dizziness and a cough. Metagenomic RNA sequencing of a sample of bronchoalveolar lavage fluid from the patient identified a new RNA virus strain from the family Coronaviridae, which is designated here ‘WH-Human 1’ coronavirus (and has also been referred to as ‘2019-nCoV’). Phylogenetic analysis of the complete viral genome (29,903 nucleotides) revealed that the virus was most closely related (89.1% nucleotide similarity) to a group of SARS-like coronaviruses (genus Betacoronavirus, subgenus Sarbecovirus) that had previously been found in bats in China. This outbreak highlights the ongoing ability of viral spill-over from animals to cause severe disease in humans.

The Nature paper notes that this is a novel coronavirus related to known bat coronaviruses but it's exact origin remains unclear. The authors also mention that the origin of other disease-causing coronavirus-like viruses is also unknown

Coronaviruses are associated with a number of infectious disease outbreaks in humans, including SARS in 2002–2003 and Middle East respiratory syndrome (MERS) in 2012. Four other coronaviruses—human coronaviruses HKU1, OC43, NL63 and 229E—are also associated with respiratory disease. Although SARS-like coronaviruses have been widely identified in mammals including bats since 2005 in China, the exact origin of human-infected coronaviruses remains unclear. Here we describe a new coronavirus—WHCV—in the BALF from a patient who experienced severe respiratory disease in Wuhan, China. Phylogenetic analysis suggests that WHCV is a member of the genus Betacoronavirus (subgenus Sarbecovirus) that has some genomic and phylogenetic similarities to SARS-CoV1, particularly in the RBD of the spike protein. These genomic and clinical similarities to SARS, as well as its high abundance in clinical samples, provides evidence for an association between WHCV and the ongoing outbreak of respiratory disease in Wuhan and across the world. Although the isolation of the virus from only a single patient is not sufficient to conclude that it caused these respiratory symptoms, our findings have been independently corroborated in further patients in a separate study. The identification of multiple SARS-like CoVs in bats have led to the idea that these animals act as hosts of a natural reservoir of these viruses. Although SARS-like viruses have been identified widely in bats in China, viruses identical to SARS-CoV have not yet been documented. Notably, WHCV is most closely related to bat coronaviruses, and shows 100% amino acid similarity to bat SL-CoVZC45 in the nsp7 and E proteins (Supplementary Table 3). Thus, these data suggest that bats are a possible host for the viral reservoir of WHCV. However, as a variety of animal species were for sale in the market when the disease was first reported, further studies are needed to determine the natural reservoir and any intermediate hosts of WHCV

Subsequent work suggests that the virus did not originate in the Wuhan market but was circulating in Wuhan in November 2019 among a small number of people who were not associated with the market. It looks like market workers were the source of superspreader event. It's important to keep in mind that the exact origin of several other viral diseases has never been determined. This is quite normal so don't be fooled by people who think that the mysterious origin of SARS-CoV-2 demands an immediate explanation. That's likely not going to happen no matter how many outside investigators go snooping around Wuhan looking for clues to support their favorite conspiracy theory.
Seversky_{May 30, 2021
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I would advise against relying on Fox News or the Daily Mail for accurate science reporting.Seversky_{May 30, 2021
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F/N: Here's DM https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-9629563/Chinese-scientists-created-COVID-19-lab-tried-cover-tracks-new-study-claims.html >>EXCLUSIVE: COVID-19 'has NO credible natural ancestor' and WAS created by Chinese scientists who then tried to cover their tracks with 'retro-engineering' to make it seem like it naturally arose from bats, explosive new study claims An explosive new study claims researchers found 'unique fingerprints' in COVID-19 samples that they say could only have arisen from manipulation in a laboratory DailyMail.com exclusively obtained the new 22-page paper authored by British Professor Angus Dalgleish and Norwegian scientist Dr. Birger Sørensen set to be published in the Quarterly Review of Biophysics Discovery The study showed there's evidence to suggest Chinese scientists created the virus while working on a Gain of Function project in a Wuhan lab Gain of Function research, which was temporarily outlawed in the US, involves altering naturally-occurring viruses to make them more infectious in order to study their potential effects on humans According to the paper, Chinese scientists took a natural coronavirus 'backbone' found in Chinese cave bats and spliced onto it a new 'spike', turning it into the deadly and highly transmissible COVID-19 The researchers, who concluded that COVID-19 'has no credible natural ancestor', also believe scientists reverse-engineered versions of the virus to cover up their tracks 'We think that there have been retro-engineered viruses created,' Dalgleish told DailyMail.com. 'They've changed the virus, then tried to make out it was in a sequence years ago.' The study also points to 'deliberate destruction, concealment or contamination of data' in Chinese labs and notes that 'scientists who wished to share their findings haven't been able to do so or have disappeared' Until recently, most experts had staunchly denied the origins of the virus were anything other than a natural infection leaping from animals to humans Earlier this week, Dr. Anthony Fauci defended US funding of the Wuhan Institute of Virology, saying the $600,000 grant was not approved for Gain of Function research By Josh Boswell For Dailymail.com Published: 22:50 BST, 28 May 2021 | Updated: 03:00 BST, 29 May 2021 >> Food for thought. KFkairosfocus_{May 29, 2021
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PS: In another UD thread we see:
The WSJ editorial board wrote that it is a shame that it has taken so long for the Biden administration to reopen an investigation into the Wuhan Institute of Virology “because the suspicious facts have been apparent from the start.” The board outlined circumstantial evidence that was dismissed because of political preferences rather than the strength of the evidence and pointed out that “news reports relished the divisions between the White House and scientific advisors.” Significantly, previous viral pandemics like SARS and MERS were traced to an animal source but so far, an animal origin for SARS-CoV-2 has not been found: “This scrutiny should have started a year ago, but media partisanship derailed fair discussion. Many ‘experts’ made political calculations and fell prey to groupthink rather than following the science.” Heather Zeiger, “Covid-19 lab leak theory upgraded from conspiracy to plausible” at Mind Matters News
So, follow the science easily becomes follow the partyline. As was warned of last year, right here at UD.kairosfocus_{May 29, 2021
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Sev, we are seeing a live case of the design inference in action, complete with bias against the inference. What is suggested is, evidence of art not blind chance and/or mechanical necessity. The existence of such a virus it seems, is far more credible on design than by natural undirected forces. Then we come to the question of leaks from labs, safety protocols and more. Lurking, was there malfeasance or gross negligence? On the part of technical funders, as such research in the US would likely have faced extremely hostile scrutiny, was off-shoring it responsible? Given who that points to, how much of what we have been told since January last year can be regarded with any significant credibility at this point? (Yes, that spreads into a LOT of hot topics we have seen, i/l/o ongoing 4th gen civil war in the US and linked geostrategic developments: there, regrettably, are suspects afoot for Sherlock Holmes to go a hunting.) Is "follow the science" aging well? For example, why is Ivermectin being given the push off the cliff, why was HCQ given that same push last year? Noting, evidence out there that there is significant efficacy. Especially, given the rush job on the various vaccines and their connexions to a circle many view with increasing concern. And more. KFkairosfocus_{May 29, 2021
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Belfast, To italicize a word, format it like this: [i]italics[/i] using open and closed angle brackets. -QQuerius_{May 28, 2021
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Seversky at 2 ‘ And is there any more EVIDENCE this virus leaked from the Wuhan lab than there was before?’ (Your emphasis - I can’t get italics) You spoke too soon, Sev. You have long been in the category of those for whom no evidence is enough.Belfast_{May 28, 2021
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Good observations and advice, Vivid! Thanks, -QQuerius_{May 28, 2021
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Q I used to ride a motorcycle and when I did I assumed I was invisible , anyone who rode a bike knows what I mean. When watching the media I assume everything is a lie unless I can independently verify it. I used to wonder how an advanced civilization like Germany could buy into Hitler not anymore, propaganda is powerful. BTW one of the first things Hitler did when he came to power was to effectively defund the police by eliminating it by federalizing it. BTWJan 6 so called insurrection is right out of the Reichstag fire playbook. Vividvividbleau_{May 28, 2021
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I admit that I generally believe what I read or am told . . . but I'm learning to be more skeptical even though I prefer giving people the benefit of the doubt. In a speech to Congress, Rand Paul claims that animal vectors are minimal. I wonder why there hasn't been much concern by doctors (nor unrestrained hysteria by the press) about COVID in pets. Should I put masks on my pet pangolins and horseshoe bats when I take them along to a restaurant for dinner? "I'd like your baloney special. And, I'd like a plate of fresh larvae for my pangolins. My bats will catch their own dinners." ;-D -QQuerius_{May 28, 2021
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Q “But some people will naturally cling to whatever baloney being fed” I had a conversation with my son about this topic this morning. We tried to total up how many lies, significant lies, factually provable lies the press has spewed out to the public. It is amazing to witness how ffing stupid the American people are. How many lies does it take for people to ignore what you hear and believe what they see? Like this, China denied that the virus was transmitted human to human even though they knew it was. China closed down Wuhan and would not allow anyone to travel throughout China but let them go outside the country. Oh yeh it was a pangolin, no a bat, on and on.we will never know because by this time the evidence has been destroyed. But what we do know is damning Vividvividbleau_{May 28, 2021
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Q re 4 Thumbs up. Vividvividbleau_{May 28, 2021
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Seversky @2, David Asher's statement threw me until I realized he simply meant beyond "beyond natural," and perhaps "supranatural" (enunciated clearly) would have been a better choice of words. I think the overwhelming evidence for a lab leak at Wuhan was already there, but suppressed by the press and social media since they've been obediently acting as an arm of the Chinese Communist Party. The lies are continuing to fall apart, however, since Donald Trump has been defeated, the CCP and their allies in the US press, the US government, and the WHO can breathe a sigh of relief. For the press, their priority to maintain the fiction has dropped so they've been freed from their obligations and are now trying to restore their credibility. The Wuhan lab was indeed involved in corona virus gain-of-function research according to early whistle-blowers from the lab (some of whom subsequently disappeared in China and others were shunned by the press), several researchers at the Wuhan lab died in the Fall of 2019 with symptoms consistent with COVID 19, the US was indeed partly funding the Wuhan lab, the Wuhan lab has had other, similar accidents, horseshoe bats live a thousand miles away and were hibernating, these bats don't seem to be susceptible to COVID 19, testimonies from viral researchers indicate that this was "obviously" a chimera, a lab-created virus designed to infect human hosts for purposes linked to the biological warfare organization in the People's Liberation Army. We were told that masks don't work/they do work and are mandatory/ and now they don't work after all. There was a huge outcry against Trump blocking travel to and from China with Nancy Pelosi leading the charge by going maskless to a Chinatown celebration in San Francisco to show everyone how stupid and racist Donald Trump was, but the press and social media subsequently erased all that from history and at least one new organization has been rewriting their old articles. So now, instead of being a cringeworthy crackpot theory, the origin of this virus from the Wuhan, we're being told that a lab leak is not beyond the scope of possibility. But some people will naturally cling to whatever baloney being fed to them and will happily assert that all of this evidence is just an amazing coincidence. Here's what Dr. Anthony Fauci told us in February 2020: https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/health/2020/02/17/nih-disease-official-anthony-fauci-risk-of-coronavirus-in-u-s-is-minuscule-skip-mask-and-wash-hands/4787209002/ -QQuerius_{May 28, 2021
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"And is there any more evidence this virus leaked from the Wuhan lab than there was before?" Sev, Which is why I conclude this is just the result of a marketing meeting, and the stinky poo in the different bag is the same horsesh*t. Andrewasauber_{May 28, 2021
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“The data disproportionately stacked up as we investigated that it was coming out of a lab or some supernatural source,”
"Supernatural source"? Why would we take this man seriously? And is there any more evidence this virus leaked from the Wuhan lab than there was before?Seversky_{May 28, 2021
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I've been suspicious of this discussion from the start. Now that Demon Fauci is saying it, I'm even more suspicious. When Deepstate directs our attention to a specific part of a big question, and gets us arguing about this part, you can bet that the debated part is NOT the important question. The big question is not the origin of a "virus" but the existence of a "virus". Ockham as always. When an entity is proved to be unnecessary, toss it. These "measures" and "measurements" have no relation at all to real viruses, and most of the "measures" are perfectly designed to eliminate immunity. This is NOT how real public health has ever handled a real virus. So the "virus" is an unnecessary entity. Something else is driving the "measures".polistra_{May 28, 2021
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