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Yes, Lizzie, Chance is Very Often an Explanation

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Over at The Skeptical Zone Elizabeth Liddle has weighed in on the “coins on the table” issue I raised in this post.

Readers will remember the simple question I asked:

If you came across a table on which was set 500 coins (no tossing involved) and all 500 coins displayed the “heads” side of the coin, how on earth would you test “chance” as a hypothesis to explain this particular configuration of coins on a table?

Dr. Liddle’s answer:

Chance is not an explanation, and therefore cannot be rejected, or supported, as a hypothesis.

Staggering. Gobsmacking. Astounding. Superlatives fail me.

Not only is Dr. Liddle’s statement false, it is the exact opposite of the truth. Indeed, pharmaceutical companies, to name just one example, have spent countless billions of dollars in clinical trials of drugs attempting to rule out the “chance explanation.”

Don’t take my word for it. Here is a paper called What is a P-value? by Ronald A. Thisted, PhD, a statistics professor in the Departments of Statistics and Health Studies at the University of Chicago. The abstract states:

Results favoring one treatment over another in a randomized clinical trial can be explained only if the favored treatment really is superior or the apparent advantage enjoyed by the treatment is due solely to the working of chance. Since chance produces very small advantages often but large differences rarely, the larger the effect seen in the trial the less plausible chance assignment alone can be as an explanation. If the chance explanation can be ruled out, then the differences seen in the study must be due to the effectiveness of the treatment being studied. The p-value measures consistency between the results actually obtained in the trial and the “pure chance” explanation for those results. A p-value of 0.002 favoring group A arises very infrequently when the only differences between groups A and C are due to chance. More precisely, chance alone would produce such a result only twice in every thousand studies. Consequently, we conclude that the advantage of A over B is (quite probably) real rather than spurious.

(emphasis added)

In a clinical trial the null hypothesis is that the apparent advantage of the treatment is due to chance. The whole point of the trial is to see if the company can rule out the chance explanation, i.e. to rule out the null hypothesis that the results were due to chance, i.e., the chance hypothesis. So, if “chance is not an explanation” what is the point of spending all those billions trying to rule it out?

Want more? Here’s a paper from Penn State on the Chi-square test. An excerpt:

Chi-square is a statistical test commonly used to compare observed data with data we would expect to obtain according to a specific hypothesis. For example, if, according to Mendel’s laws, you expected 10 of 20 offspring from a cross to be male and the actual observed number was 8 males, then you might want to know about the “goodness to fit” between the observed and expected. Were the deviations (differences between observed and expected) the result of chance, or were they due to other factors. How much deviation can occur before you, the investigator, must conclude that something other than chance is at work, causing the observed to differ from the expected. The chi-square test is always testing what scientists call the null hypothesis, which states that there is no significant difference between the expected and observed result

(emphasis added)

Obviously, asking the question, “were the deviations the result of chance, or were they due to other factors” makes no sense if as Liddle says, “chance is not an explanation.”

I don’t know why Dr. Liddle would write something so obviously false. I am certain she knows better. “Darwinist Derangment Syndrome” or just sloppy drafting? I will let the readers decide.

Comments
Good points all! In face-to-face "discussions," I've also noticed (and some of these overlap previous ones) 1. Constant interruptions - I'm not allowed to finish a thought. 2. Verbal machine-gunning - I'm not allowed to answer a challenge, but I'm buried in a hail of word bullets of other questions. 3. Eye rolling, head shaking and other non-verbal expressions of disapproval and ridicule. 4. Introduction of irrelevant issues. What they know something about suddenly becomes the key issue. "But what about hemorrhoids?" All of a sudden, some nuance of hemorrhoids is proof positive of evolution, and thus must be examined in a detailed, pointless four-hour lecture. 5. Obfuscation. They take extreme issue with some previously obvious and harmless word or concept. 6. Sniping and browbeating. "I can't believe someone with your intellect/education/experience would say something stupid as . . . 7. Definition switch-outs. "What do you mean you don't believe in evolution? Don't you believe that things change over time?" "Can't some coins also have monuments and animal sides as well as heads or tails?" "What about two headed-coins?" 8. Definition cop-outs. What is your definition of "chance"? What do you mean by "coin"? 9. Death by a thousand cuts. Some trivial nuance published by an obscure academic supposedly refutes every objection I have. 10. Volcanic vituperation and self-righteous indignation. Apparently, my opinion is unfathomably reprehensible for some past outrage, real or imagined. 11. Accusation. I'm accused of the very thing that they're doing, or I'm being a deliberate liar, disingenuous, etc. 12. Genetic fallacy. My observation is completely discredited by my race, color, creed, sexual orientation, gender, sexual orientation, political affiliation, scientific discipline, or sexual orientation. The list goes on and on. Some people are not interested in the truth simply because of its possible implications.
Let a man meet a bear robbed of her cubs, rather than a fool in his folly. Proverbs 17:12 (NASB)
And after they are soundly thrashed in an argument, they declare themselves the winner and march off proudly in triumph. Barf. -QQuerius
December 18, 2013
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I don’t know why Dr. Liddle would write something so obviously false.
Zero concession policy. I think highly of Dr. Liddle and Mark Frank, and I'm sorry we are opposing each other on such questions. The chance hypothesis is critical to defining the design argument. Obfuscate, distort, make meaningless the chance hypothesis and one will impede the clarity of the design hypothesis. The problem for Dr. Liddle is an ID proponent can simply define his terms a little more rigorously and thus negate such maneuvers (i.e. "a stochastic process that maximizes uncertainty given the degrees of freedom of relevant symbols", which is overkill,imho). And in this case, she is already beginning to go against mainstream usage even in relevant literature. I myself have fought almost tooth and nail with other ID proponents to be more careful the words they choose to describe things, and occasionally (much to the alarm of my ID brethren) I've sided with the Darwinists. In this case, I think Dr. Liddle is out on a limb as far as accepted conventions.scordova
December 18, 2013
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Barry, I'm going to vote for a miscommunication with Lizzie on this one (a "drafting" problem, as you say). There is the interesting, if overused, angels-on-the-head-of-a-pin discussion about whether there is such a thing as chance. After all, the argument goes, what we call chance is just a manifestation of ignorance. If we knew the location and trajectory of every particle beforehand, we could predict with certainty the result of any situation. Now I happen to think there are problems with this argument and that chance may indeed be real. But even if chance is not real in the ultimate be-all-and-end-all sense, it is most certainly real in our ordinary experience and our everyday reality. Furthermore, it can be real in the sense that we use it as a term to describe a certain state of affairs (i.e., those in which all the prior and present conditions are not fully known). And, obviously, it is a legitimate explanation. So my vote is that Elizabeth must have been thinking of the old "is chance real?" concept when she made her statement. I would disagree with her position, but at least it would be a meaningful position to take. On the other hand, if she acknowledges the existence of chance but refuses to accept it as a possible explanation, that seems illogical. Or maybe she is just playing with the word "explanation" and saying that chance is the absence of an explanation (meaning one based on knowledge of all the particle interactions that caused x to occur). That is fine as far as it goes, but is just a semantic game.Eric Anderson
December 18, 2013
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How does someone like Nick Matzke get a doctorate with such a pathetic grasp of simple logic? Never mind. I know. He must have used the tried and tested butt-kissing tactic of praising Darwin and the infallibility of the theory of evolution on every page of his PhD thesis. :-)Mapou
December 18, 2013
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Bill Dembski offered me wise counsel 9 years ago as to how these debates go. The reason I'm glad we've had a few threads on somewhat trivial matters as the behavior of 500 coins is it highlights the structure of how these debates play out and how to successfully defeat the opponent if his position is indefensible. The ID side puts out a position that ought to be unassailable, and the Darwinsits will say things they would never say in professional literature to their students, etc. We are not even talking ID, but basic textbook statistics! Because of the simplicity of the subject matter, it becomes relatively easy to dissect the rhetorical tricks and counter them. In the evolution/ID debate particularly in highly technical discussions, it is not so easy to see the rhetorical tricks, but they are there. The last few days will hopefully illustrate the form of debate that has been played out and will play out. You just have to recognize the form of rhetorical gimmick being used against you and be prepared with appropriate responses. Maybe that's why I like these debates, it's as fun as a video game, except my opponents are live opponents. :-) The rhetorical gimmicks will usually will be: 1. equivocation 2. misrepresentation 3. red herring, ignoratio elenchi , Chewbacca defense 4. spam and jam by an anonymous poster 5. ad hominem Sniffing out the equivocation is the most difficult, it takes the most thought, but has good payoffs. Here is Bill Dembski's wise counsel from 9 years ago:
Our critics have, in effect, adopted a zero-concession policy toward intelligent design. According to this policy, absolutely nothing is to be conceded to intelligent design and its proponents. It is therefore futile to hope for concessions from critics. This is especially difficult for novices to accept. A bright young novice to this debate comes along, makes an otherwise persuasive argument, and finds it immediately shot down. Substantive objections are bypassed. Irrelevancies are stressed. Tables are turned. Misrepresentations abound. One’s competence and expertise are belittled. The novice comes back, reframes the argument, clarifies key points, attempts to answer objections, and encounters the same treatment. The problem is not with the argument but with the context of discourse in which the argument is made. The solution, therefore, is to change the context of discourse. Hardcore critics who’ve adopted a zero-concession policy toward intelligent design are still worth engaging, but we need to control the terms of engagement. Whenever I engage them, the farthest thing from my mind is to convert them, to win them over, to appeal to their good will, to make my cause seem reasonable in their eyes. We need to set wishful thinking firmly to one side. The point is not to induce a cognitive shift in our critics, but instead to clarify our arguments, to address weaknesses in our own position, to identify areas requiring further work and study, and, perhaps most significantly, to appeal to the undecided middle that is watching this debate and trying to sort through the issues. ... Let’s talk about this. Obviously, this criticism flows directly out of the zero-concession policy. Indeed, it is merely a restatement of the zero-concession policy. How shall we respond to it? As I noted, the temptation here is to engage in a war of words, justify intelligent design, recapitulate its program, lay out its research agenda, or, perhaps, even complain that the critic is being unfair. Stop and think. The critic will be satisfied at no point, deny every claim that supports intelligent design, ask for endless detail, throw in countless red herrings, and, whenever possible, turn the tables and accuse you and your program of the very faults that you are raising against evolution. So, our job is not to try to justify to such critics why intelligent design has a right to exist, but rather to justify to the outsiders listening in on our debate why intelligent design has more going for it than the hardcore critics are willing to concede. ... Critics and enemies are useful. The point is to use them effectively. In our case, this is remarkably easy to do. The reason is that our critics are so assured of themselves and of the rightness of their cause. As a result, they rush into print their latest pronouncements against intelligent design when more careful thought, or perhaps even silence, is called for. The Internet, especially now with its blogs (web logs), provides our critics with numerous opportunities for intemperate, indiscreet, and ill-conceived attacks on intelligent design. These can be turned to advantage http://www.designinference.com/documents/2004.04.Backlash.htm
And that would describe Nick Matzke. He knew the playbook I was working from (the above advice from Bill Dembski is public knowledge) and his still chose to engage me in an argument where his position was indefensible. He has such self-assurance that I was stupid and thus I'd lose the debate. Instead he lost the debate, and to remind him of it I suggested people remind him this way: https://uncommondescent.com/intelligent-design/a-statistics-question-for-nick-matzke/#comment-484168
Nick, Sal said that a 2-headed coin would preclude chance as a mechanism even in principle with respect to a 500 all-heads coin pattern. You disagreed and said, “not really”. Can you elaborate further how there is a chance tails could emerge as an outcome with a 2-headed coin since you insist chance can still have a role in the final outcome?
World famous evolutionary biologist Dr. Nick Matzke is the gift that keeps on giving. :-) My suggestion to the ID world, don't ever let Nick live this one down. Is emblematic of his behavior in the ID/Darwin debate, except in this case his error is blatantly obvious. The trick is to recognize when he is using the same kind of errors in his other writings. They are there, you just have to identify them.scordova
December 18, 2013
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The past several months I have become increasingly aware of the tactics employed by the anti-IDers. I'm at a loss for words, because of enthrallment. Most of the time it is as if they are aware of the fact that they are wrong - or should be. For instance, during the entire thread 'A Statistics Question for Nick Matzke', no serious argument was presented. They must also be aware of this, right? The arguments offered in Lizzie's thread at “the skeptic zone” by Lizzie and others are also obviously ridiculous. But they don't seem to care anymore. What is wrong with these people?Box
December 18, 2013
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