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Should we recognise that “laws of nature” extend to laws of our human nature? (Which, would then frame civil law.)

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Laws of Nature are a key part of the foundation of modern science. This reflects not only natural, law-like regularities such as the Law of Gravitation that promotes the Earth to the heavens (from being the sump of the cosmos) but also the perspective of many founders that they were thinking God’s creative, ordering providential and world-sustaining thoughts after him. The focal topic asks us whether our civil law is effectively an accident of power balances, or else, could it be accountable to a built in law that pivots on first duties coeval with our humanity.

The issue becomes pivotal, once we ponder the premise that the typical, “natural” tendency of government is to open or veiled lawless oligarchy:

So, let us hear Cicero in his On The Republic, Bk 3 [c. 55 – 54 BC]:

{22.} [33] L . . . True law is right reason in agreement with nature , it is of universal application, unchanging and everlasting; it summons to duty by its commands, and averts from wrongdoing by its prohibitions. And it does not lay its commands or prohibitions upon good men in vain, though neither have any effect on the wicked. It is a sin to try to alter this law, nor is it allowable to attempt to repeal any part of it, and it is impossible to abolish it entirely. We cannot be freed from its obligations by senate or people, and we need not look outside ourselves for an expounder or interpreter of it. And there will not be different laws at Rome and at Athens, or different laws now and in the future, but one eternal and unchangeable law will be valid for all nations and all times, and there will be one master and ruler, that is, God, over us all, for he is the author of this law, its promulgator, and its enforcing judge. Whoever is disobedient is fleeing from himself and denying his human nature, and by reason of this very fact he will suffer the worst penalties, even if he escapes what is commonly considered punishment. . . . – Marcus Tullius Cicero, On the Republic, Bk 3

This, of course, is further reflected in his De Legibus, which lays out a framework:

With respect to the true principle of justice, many learned men have maintained that it springs from Law. I hardly know if their opinion be not correct, at least, according to their own definition; for “Law (say they) is the highest reason, implanted in nature, which prescribes those things which ought to be done, and forbids the contrary.” This, they think, is apparent from the converse of the proposition; because this same reason, when it [37]is confirmed and established in men’s minds, is the law of all their actions.

They therefore conceive that the voice of conscience is a law, that moral prudence is a law, whose operation is to urge us to good actions, and restrain us from evil ones.

We see in the Angelic Doctor, a broadening of the framework, elaborating four domains of law:

Thus, following Aquinas, we can see that arguably there is an intelligible core of law coeval with our responsible, rational, significantly free nature. This built-in law turns on inescapable, thus self-evident truths of justice and moral government, which rightly govern what courts may rule or parliaments legislate, per the premise of justice moderated by requisites of feasible order in a world that must reckon with the hardness of men’s hearts. Where, we are thus duty bound, morally governed creatures.

Hence, we come to the sense of duty attested to by sound conscience [“conscience is a law”], that breathes fire into what would otherwise be inert statements in dusty tomes. We may term these, by extension, the Ciceronian First Duties of Reason:

FIRST DUTIES OF RESPONSIBLE REASON

We can readily identify at least seven inescapable first duties of reason. “Inescapable,” as they are so antecedent to reasoning that even the objector implicitly appeals to them; i.e. they are self-evident. Namely, duties,

1 – to truth, 

2 – to right reason

3 – to prudence, 

4 – to sound conscience, 

5 – to neighbour; so also, 

6 – to fairness and

7 – justice 

x – etc.

[I add, Mar 12, for clarity:] {Of course, there is a linked but not equivalent pattern: bounded, error-prone rationality often tied to ill will and stubbornness or even closed mindedness; that’s why the study of right reason has a sub-study on fallacies and errors. That we seek to evade duties or may make errors does not overthrow the first duties of reason, which instead help us to detect and correct errors, as well as to expose our follies.}

Such built-in . . . thus, universal . . . law is not invented by parliaments, kings or courts, nor can these principles and duties be abolished by such; they are recognised, often implicitly as an indelible part of our evident nature. Hence, natural law,” coeval with our humanity, famously phrased in terms of “self-evident . . . rights . . . endowed by our Creator” in the US Declaration of Independence, 1776. (Cf. Cicero in De Legibus, c. 50 BC.) Indeed, it is on this framework that we can set out to soundly understand and duly balance rights, freedoms and duties; which is justice, the pivot of law.

The legitimate main task of government, then, is to uphold and defend the civil peace of justice through sound community order reflecting the built in, intelligible law of our nature. Where, as my right implies your duty a true right is a binding moral claim to be respected in life, liberty, honestly acquired property, innocent reputation etc. To so justly claim a right, one must therefore demonstrably be in the right.

Where, prudence can also be seen via Aristotle’s summary:  “. . . [who aptly] defined prudence as recta ratio agibilium, ‘right reason applied to practice.’ The emphasis on ‘right’ is important . . .  Prudence requires us to distinguish between what is right and what is wrong . . . If we mistake the evil for the good, we are not exercising prudence—in fact, we are showing our lack of it.”

Of course, we just saw a 400+ comment thread that saw objectors insistently, studiously evading the force of inescapability, where their objections consistently show that they cannot evade appealing to the same first duties that they would dismiss or suggest were so obscure and abstract that they cannot serve as a practical guide. The history of the modern civil rights movement once the print revolution, the civilisational ferment surrounding the reformation and the rise of newspapers, bills, coffee houses etc had unleashed democratising forces speaks to the contrary. The absurdity of appealing to what one seeks to overthrow simply underscores its self evidence. But free, morally governed creatures are just that, free. Even, free to cling to manifest absurdities.

This approach, of course, sharply contrasts with the idea that law is in effect whatever those who control the legal presses issue under that heading; based on power balances and so in effect might and/or manipulation. Aquinas’ corrective should suffice to show that not all that is issued under colour of law is lawful, or even simply prudent towards preserving order in a world of the hardness of men’s hearts.

Yes, obviously, if we are governed by built-in law, that raises the question that there is a cosmic law-giver, qualified to do so not by mere sheer power but also by being inherently good and utterly wise. Such a root of reality also answers the Hume Guillotine and the Euthyphro dilemma: an inherently good and utterly wise, necessary and maximally great being root of reality would bridge IS and OUGHT in the source of all reality and would issue good and wise, intelligible built-in law.

What of Mathematics? The answer is, of course, that a core of Math is inherent in the framework of any possible world. So, this would extend that core of Math tied to sets, structures and quantities expressed in N,Z,Q,R,C,R* etc to any actual world. That answers Wigner’s puzzlement on the universal power of Math and it points to, who has power to create an actual world in which we have fine tuning towards C-Chemistry, aqueous medium, cell based life? Likewise, it is suggestive on the source of the language and algorithms found in D/RNA etc.

Lest we forget, here is Crick, to his son, March 19, 1953:

So, we have come full circle, to law as expressing ordering principles of the dynamic-stochastic physical world and those of the world of intelligent, rational, morally governed creatures. Surprise — NOT — the design thesis is central to both. END

PS: As a reminder, the McFaul dirty form colour revolution framework and SOCOM insurgency escalator

U/D Feb 14: Outlines on first principles of right reason:

Here, we see that a distinct A — I usually use a bright red ball on a table:

and contrast a red near-ball in the sky, Betelgeuse as it went through a surprise darkening (something we observed separately and independently, it was not a figment of imagination):

. . . is distinct from the rest of the world. A is itself i/l/o its characteristics of being, and it is distinct from whatever else is not A, hence we see that in w there is no x that is A and ~A and any y that is in W will either be A or not A but not both or neither. These three are core to logic: P/LOI, LNC, LEM.

We may extend to governing principles that we have duties toward — never mind whoever may disregard such (and thereby cause chaos):

U/D March 13: The challenge of building a worldview i/l/o the infinite regress issue:

A summary of why we end up with foundations for our worldviews, whether or not we would phrase the matter that way}

Framing a ship:

. . . compare a wooden model aircraft:

. . . or a full scale, metal framework jet:

In short, there is always a foundational framework for any serious structure.

Comments
readily confirmed fact: even objectors to such duties, in arguing their objections inescapably appeal to these same duties. In recent days I showed several examples, and your own argument implies the binding nature of the same duties.
Yet nearly all of history and most of the world today ignores this. I fail to see anything binding that does not flow from western religions and the industrial revolution which added freedom to the mix and took out the oppressive nature of all religions till then. There is no way Aristotle and Cicero could come to these modern day understandings. For example, both supported slavery and it took the American industrial expansion to emancipate the common man. So I don’t find any of the things so obvious without the religious and freedom experiences. And then not all religious tenets. See my comment at #337 about how one determines what is desirable for treating humans. To use Right Reasoning, assume my comments in #337 describe what is desirable for humans or the “q.” There is no way that anyone before the 1700’s could know the appropriate “p’s” that would lead to this “q.” So everything the Greeks, Roman and Scholastics said would not be Right Reasoning. Nor would any of the religions that existed in the 1700’s or before would be advocating what was appropriate. They may have advocated doctrines leading to salvation but not policies leading to the flourishing of all humanity. Isn’t that what we are debating, the flourishing of humans. And how to protect that with laws.jerry
February 18, 2021
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Jerry, the remarks I made on inescapability of seven first duties are first a matter of readily confirmed fact: even objectors to such duties, in arguing their objections inescapably appeal to these same duties. In recent days I showed several examples, and your own argument implies the binding nature of the same duties. This is not a religious inference -- practically a dirty word in many quarters today -- but a readily seen empirically observable pattern, manifest in how we argue or quarrel (as C S Lewis sometimes pointed out). The point is, cold words in books on shelves have no power in themselves, it is the responsiveness of people to the force of duty to truth, to right reason, to prudence, etc which makes people attend to and acknowledge the force of arguments. That is readily observed in how the objections expect those being persuaded to acknowledge and respond to said duties. If someone believes a case turns on falsehood, uses twisted, fallacious, erroneous and imprudent reasoning in service to injustice, s/he will be but little inclined to give it any weight. But if a case is seen as rooted in truth, uses cogent arguments and is prudent towards justice, it will carry weight with responsible persons precisely out of our sense of duty to same, of course augmented by awareness that the former is likely to be dangerous. And so forth. KFkairosfocus
February 18, 2021
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Jerry, we both know the relevant Boolean Algebra and know the summary in brief is accurate to that algebra. Material implication is routinely extended to logical inference through modus ponens and tollens. It is routinely used with modelling theory where a simplified model -- so, strictly false -- gives reliably accurate results in a calibrated domain. The principle of explosion is the heart of reductio ad absurdum, whereby the unreliability of the necessarily false is used to overturn a proposition leading to a self-contradiction. In explanation, competing explanations leading to the same body of evidence are compared to select the best. And more, the algebra you put on the table using the convention p --> q, is well known. KFkairosfocus
February 18, 2021
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properties of implications, with links to inference to best explanation and to modelling theory. Also, to the principle of explosion. Extensions beyond the triple first principles best seen through Boolean Algebra.
As lucid as a brick wall. Are the 7 duties you frequently mention a p or q? I assume they are a q. If so what leads to them? The quote I used above to explain Right Reasoning was by Chesterton. I took what he said and put it into p and q. I generally agree with much of your concerns and have no problem with some of your conclusions but I fail to see why they are intuitively obvious. From a religious perspective, yes. But that is not going to fly here. If they flow logically, that is escaping everyone. It weakens your argument. See my comment at #31jerry
February 18, 2021
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Jerry, properties of implications, with links to inference to best explanation and to modelling theory. Also, to the principle of explosion. Extensions beyond the triple first principles best seen through Boolean Algebra. KF PS, I would appreciate the file, my email is bottom of the page linked through my handle. Thanks in advance.kairosfocus
February 18, 2021
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Right Reasoning P -> q. If p is true, q is true. Example of Right Reasoning. If p is false or unknown p still implies q and logic is correct but not Right Reasoning. q could still be true but not logically true. It could also be false. Right or correct logical reasoning is not necessarily Right Reasoning.jerry
February 18, 2021
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not separately save my comments yesterday, gone.
I have all the comments.jerry
February 18, 2021
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The reason for that I compose my posts offline & the do some final editing online. Your posts responding to my post @ #427 (416 & 417) are still there-- at least there are for me. UD get your act together!!!john_a_designer
February 18, 2021
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JaD, unlike you, I did not separately save my comments yesterday, gone. KFkairosfocus
February 18, 2021
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PS: Let me clip my immediate expansion: "right reason is a classical, technical term since Aristotle at least,"" - documenting source of classical vintage " for" - meaning expanded from first short remarks on the label on the tin " reasoning informed and controlled by first principles of logic"" - reasoning, what we do in thinking, speaking arguing when we are concerned to get to correct conclusions. - first principles of logic, as we learn in logic 101 >>starting with the principle of identity [with close corollaries LNC and LEM, see u/d to OP]>> - these start with the key triplet and its root, identity, - I refer to the Op where there is a brief discussion " and then soundly used to seek truth, warrant knowledge, guide discernment, promote justice and so lead to doing duty towards the due balance of rights, freedoms and responsibilities." - ends to be pursued, listed. KFkairosfocus
February 18, 2021
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[It looks like my comments from yesterday have all disappeared. I’m reposting this for context because kf replied to it @ 416 & 417] The ancient Greek Pre-Socratic philosophers equipped with only a very crude proto-science tried to explain the natural world using natural causes. Therefore, the type of philosophy or world view advanced by these early Greeks was basically naturalistic and atheistic (though some of the thinkers appear to have been pantheists). Again this was because, they tried to use natural explanations to explain the natural world, rejecting polytheistic explanations as superstitions. Nevertheless, their philosophy was unable to create any kind of consensus. By the time of Plato, philosophy was dominated skepticism. There were philosophers, referred to as “sophists” which means wisemen, who were more concerned with winning arguments than seeking and finding the truth-- sound familiar? Furthermore, these so-called sophists, who were skilled in both rhetoric and argumentation, expected to be paid for their services, either as educators or as quasi-political advisors-- or what we would call consultants. Plato had little patience or respect for the sophists. His native Athens, where he lived his whole life, was going through a period of political and social turmoil. The Athenians had lost a long war with a competing Greek state, Sparta, and then subsequently experienced a number of political coups. Their democratic government was overthrown by an aristocratic oligarchy which in turn was soon itself overthrown by a mob ruled democracy. Both forms of government were dominated by corruption and corrupt politicans. The sophists were not there to offer solutions for the crisis but to exploit it and line their pockets. Plato, on the other hand, genuinely believed that the Athenian society, which had a tradition that emphasized moral virtue, could do better. And when he said better he meant there was a real, or a true, standard by which it could really do better. A sophist, by the name of Callicles, figures prominently in Plato’s dialogue Gorigias. As a naturalist he viewed ethics and morality as human conventions which were little more than human inventions. The following quote illustrates Callicle’s thinking:
For the truth is, Socrates, that you, who pretend to be engaged in the pursuit of truth, are appealing now to the popular and vulgar notions of right, which are not natural, but only conventional. Convention and nature are generally at variance with one another… The reason, as I conceive, is that the makers of laws are the majority who are weak; and they make laws and distribute praises and censures with a view to themselves and to their own interests; and they terrify the stronger sort of men, and those who are able to get the better of them, in order that they may not get the better of them; and they say, that dishonesty is shameful and unjust; meaning, by the word injustice, the desire of a man to have more than his neighbours; for knowing their own inferiority, I suspect that they are too glad of equality. And therefore the endeavour to have more than the many, is conventionally said to be shameful and unjust, and is called injustice… whereas nature herself intimates that it is just for the better to have more than the worse, the more powerful than the weaker; and in many ways she shows, among men as well as among animals, and indeed among whole cities and races, that justice consists in the superior ruling over and having more than the inferior. For on what principle of justice did Xerxes invade Hellas, or his father the Scythians? Nay, but these are the men who act according to nature… not… according to that artificial law, which we invent and impose upon our fellows, of whom we take the best and strongest from their youth upwards, and tame them like young lions,—charming them with the sound of the voice, and saying to them, that with equality they must be content, and that the equal is the honourable and the just. But if there were a man who had sufficient force, he would shake off and break through, and escape from all this; he would trample under foot all our formulas and spells and charms, and all our laws which are against nature…
Notice what Callicles is arguing here: The concept of Justice is something that is defined, if not outright invented, by those who are in power. In other words, what we call justice is relative to those who control and dominate society. The weak, who favor democracy, have a different concept of justice than the strong, who favor tyranny. Therefore, there is no objectively true, or objectively fair, concept of justice that can be applied universally to society or mankind as a species. In other words, at least, in the moral/political sphere there is no such thing a true knowledge or truth. Plato rejected Callicles thinking. He thought that justice, which applied equally to all free men, really existed and could be used to truly create a just society. In fact, the theme of his magnum opus, The Republic, is how we can create a just society. But if something like justice-- or human rights based on justice-- really exist, how do we know they exist? This isn’t just a moral or political problem; it is also an epistemological problem. Notice there is nothing new about moral relativism and subjectivism. Those approaches didn’t work back then. They don’t work now. What do you call that? The pragmatic test of truth truth? That might not be an absolute proof but where is the evidence that moral subjectivism and relativism after some 2500 years have done anything to help improve the human race morality.john_a_designer
February 18, 2021
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Jerry, I doubt that "the simple short summary is, the accurate descriptive label is right there on the tin: right reason is sound reasoning, to just ends" is in an indistinct or cryptic code unless you have good grounds to hold that "reason" "just" and "ends" are meaningless terms, similar to remarks you made on "evil." Nor, is the statement lengthy, whatever else I may have drawn out at length with citations, annotations, commentary etc. Sound reasoning is something we all studied in critical thinking or basic logic class [and for us here, beyond that], where just ends speaks to purpose: the due balance of rights, freedoms and responsibilities. I drew out more detail (again, not at great length), but the core is there. KFkairosfocus
February 18, 2021
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VL, I have taken time to answer your questions, step by step; I don't know if that is a vanished comment, it was there most of yesterday. KFkairosfocus
February 18, 2021
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It is not — rpt, NOT, re rpt N-O-T . . . — an example of vague or ambiguous or indistinct or ineffectually abstract terminology.
Yes, it is. I have a hard time understanding your explanation and am not sure what most of it means. You talk in code embedded in very long comments that I do not understand most of the time. My guess is others have the same issue. By the way I have all the lost comments that WP deleted if you don't.jerry
February 18, 2021
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Jerry, we have been around that loop already, and the simple short summary is, the accurate descriptive label is right there on the tin: right reason is sound reasoning, to just ends. In fact, with usual debates on how logos should be more perfectly rendered, right reason is a classical, technical term since Aristotle at least, for reasoning informed and controlled by first principles of logic starting with the principle of identity [with close corollaries LNC and LEM, see u/d to OP] and then soundly used to seek truth, warrant knowledge, guide discernment, promote justice and so lead to doing duty towards the due balance of rights, freedoms and responsibilities. That is, a virtuous mindset is implicit. Where, on an argued for rendering of logos, roughly, give a [warranting] rational explanation, it is near enough to what is the best, and most credibly correct explanation of a matter or of why a given claim is advanced, etc. It is not -- rpt, NOT, re rpt N-O-T . . . -- an example of vague or ambiguous or indistinct or ineffectually abstract terminology. Perhaps, unfamiliar to many because of how impoverished education is today, but that simply points to what we need to fix. KF PS: I am sorry to hear that the bugs have broken loose again. Believe it or not, WP apparently is currently used to build 1/3 of all new web sites. Maybe it is incompatibilities between add-ons and the latest-greatest update.kairosfocus
February 18, 2021
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There are new problems with site as several comments have disappeared in the last few minutes. Editing function returned but many comments gone.jerry
February 18, 2021
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But WJM that leaves open the question of what is in fact in the best interest for an individual to do. Lots of general answers to that question.Viola Lee
February 18, 2021
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The editing function has disappeared.jerry
February 18, 2021
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Like so many discussions that essentially go nowhere, this one has all the characteristics of these other round and round comments. Lack of clear definitions is often the culprit. For example, just what does “right reason” mean? Sounds simple but I hadn’t a clue till reading some other texts which defined it. See above #411 on course on natural law. Then there is this article on logic and reasoning https://blog.acton.org/archives/945-logic-natural-law-and-right-reason.html
Logic, Natural Law, and Right Reason The relations of logic to truth depend, then, not upon its perfection as logic, but upon certain pre-logical faculties and certain pre-logical discoveries, upon the possession of those faculties, upon the power of making those discoveries. If a man starts with certain assumptions, he may be a good logician and a good citizen, a wise man, a successful figure. If he starts with certain other assumptions, he may be an equally good logician and a bankrupt, a criminal, a raving lunatic.
jerry
February 18, 2021
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JaD, the answer on consensus-building in a world dominated by sophists, bought and paid for technicos and their paymasters, is the parable of Plato's cave viewed from the perspective, who set up the shadow show and the cave as an epistemological/ideological prison? [BTW, the modern media's version of lying shadow-puppet shows is far more effective as we can see all around.] That is, in the words of Plato in The Laws, those whose system of thought -- for want of a better term -- leads them to hold with Callicles et al . . . and echoing Alcibiades [see, the parable of the Ship of State and contrast Luke's historical microcosm/case study in Ac 27], too . . . that "the highest right is might." KFkairosfocus
February 18, 2021
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JaD, yes, the Greeks had a saying that in whatever direction they went they met Plato and Aristotle on the way back. The questions before us are ages old and the best definition of Philosophy I ever saw is, the study of hard questions. That is, if there is an easy, simple answer that does not bristle with difficulties on a central or basic issue, it is not philosophy. I think you recall a clip I used to put up many times, one that uncomfortably echoes current events, from Plato's late dialogue, The Laws:
Ath [in The Laws, Bk X 2,360 ya]. . . .[The avant garde philosophers and poets, c. 360 BC] say that fire and water, and earth and air [i.e the classical "material" elements of the cosmos -- the natural order], all exist by nature and chance, and none of them by art . . . [such that] all that is in the heaven, as well as animals and all plants, and all the seasons come from these elements, not by the action of mind, as they say, or of any God, or from art, but as I was saying, by nature and chance only [ --> that is, evolutionary materialism is ancient and would trace all things to blind chance and mechanical necessity] . . . . [Thus, they hold] that the principles of justice have no existence at all in nature, but that mankind are always disputing about them and altering them; and that the alterations which are made by art and by law have no basis in nature, but are of authority for the moment and at the time at which they are made.-
[ --> Relativism, too, is not new; complete with its radical amorality rooted in a worldview that has no foundational IS that can ground OUGHT, leading to an effectively arbitrary foundation only for morality, ethics, law and government: accident of personal preference, the ebbs and flows of power politics, accidents of history and and the shifting sands of manipulated community opinion driven by "winds and waves of doctrine and the cunning craftiness of men in their deceitful scheming . . . " cf a video on Plato's parable of the cave; from the perspective of pondering who set up the manipulative shadow-shows, why.]
These, my friends, are the sayings of wise men, poets and prose writers, which find a way into the minds of youth. They are told by them that the highest right is might,
[ --> Evolutionary materialism -- having no IS that can properly ground OUGHT -- leads to the promotion of amorality on which the only basis for "OUGHT" is seen to be might (and manipulation: might in "spin"), opening the door to cynicism, hyperskepticism and nihilism . . . ]
and in this way the young fall into impieties, under the idea that the Gods are not such as the law bids them imagine; and hence arise factions [ --> Evolutionary materialism-motivated amorality "naturally" leads to continual contentions and power struggles influenced by that amorality at the hands of ruthless power hungry nihilistic agendas], these philosophers inviting them to lead a true life according to nature, that is,to live in real dominion over others [ --> such amoral and/or nihilistic factions, if they gain power, "naturally" tend towards ruthless abuse and arbitrariness . . . they have not learned the habits nor accepted the principles of mutual respect, justice, fairness and keeping the civil peace of justice, so they will want to deceive, manipulate and crush -- as the consistent history of radical revolutions over the past 250 years so plainly shows again and again], and not in legal subjection to them [--> nihilistic will to power not the spirit of justice and lawfulness].
This is part of the backdrop for Cicero's De Legibus, written as the Roman statesman's take on the matter, and of course we see his thoughts on justice etc in a nutshell in opening remarks:
—Marcus [in de Legibus, introductory remarks,. C1 BC, being Cicero himself]: . . . we shall have to explain the true nature of moral justice, which is congenial and correspondent [36]with the true nature of man [--> we are seeing the root vision of natural law, coeval with our humanity] . . . . With respect to the true principle of justice, many learned men have maintained that it springs from Law. I hardly know if their opinion be not correct, at least, according to their own definition; for . “Law (say they) is the highest reason, implanted in nature, which prescribes those things which ought to be done, and forbids the contrary” . . . . They therefore conceive that the voice of conscience is a law, that moral prudence is a law, whose operation is to urge us to good actions, and restrain us from evil ones . . . [T]he origin of justice is to be sought in the divine law of eternal and immutable morality.
[--> this points to the wellsprings of reality, the only place where is and ought can be bridged; bridged through the inherently good utterly wise, maximally great necessary being, the creator God, which answers the Euthyphro dilemma and Hume's guillotine argument surprise on seeing reasoning is-is then suddenly a leap to ought-ought. IS and OUGHT are fused from the root]
This indeed is the true energy of nature, the very soul and essence of wisdom, the test of virtue and vice.
It is these remarks that have led me to ponder the issues and see that certain key first duties pervade our arguments and in fact govern our life of responsible, rational, significant freedom. That is, cold words have no traction in themselves, it is our sense of being under the government and law of certain first duties that motivates. "[Sound] conscience is a law," indeed. So pivotal is this, that those with benumbed or defective or blunted consciences are deemed unwell in the soul, in the extreme we go beyond mere hardness of heart to sociopathy and the like. Unfortunately, the current state of affairs too often invites or exploits the manipulated mob to drive events, cynically exploiting might and manipulation, including by way of Reichstag fire opportunism. Such will not end well. It is in that context that I have thought it useful to refocus the first duties, highlighting their inescapability and inferring on pain of absurdity (and following Epictetus), they are inescapably true. So, they are antecedent to attempts to prove them -- just like first principles of right reason [which are involved]. Such attempted proofs themselves inescapably appeal to said duties. So these are self-evident. That cuts across popularised relativism, subjectivism and emotivism, which in effect deny objective warrant to moral knowledge claims. Cutting across what is dinned into us by the media, the general culture and education systems. But if anyone imagines that these systems are in healthy state, s/he is sadly mistaken. Instead, back to the merits. The first duties are real and pervasive, we would be well advised to attend to their voice and to ponder carefully what sort of world will have in it creatures that are rational, responsible, significantly free and -- by that said freedom -- are morally governed through intelligible first duties. KFkairosfocus
February 18, 2021
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VL, I have taken enough slices out of today for the moment (and a busy-multi-front day it has been), so pardon, later. KFkairosfocus
February 16, 2021
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PS: I pick up:
are natural law obligations ultimately binding because of decisions by the author of natural law, or are the obligations of natural law binding to human conscience, because it comes to understand the real natures of things?
This is a form of the so-called Euthyphro dilemma, with further influence from Hume's Guillotine argument. The answer is that the dilemma is a false one. Once the author of the law of our nature is inherently good and utterly wise, his decisions will be sound, trustworthy and in key parts intelligible. So, they will make good sense to the eye of reason, but they are not the subjective decision of an individual human thinker or even an august panel. So, as we understand the nature of things soundly, we will be led to trust the author of our nature AND we will increasingly see the soundness of the point. Alas, we are finite, fallible, struggling morally and intellectually, too often willfully stubborn and self-willed. That the blinded cannot see the light is not the fault of the light, we have to gradually become accustomed. Indeed that is the exact metaphor used by Plato in describing the progress of the escaped denizen of his notorious cave. So, it is both and, once conscience is sound and soundly informed by truth, right reason and prudence.kairosfocus
February 16, 2021
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KF writes, "VL, that context is ever present at UD and needs to be addressed when it is suggested. The issue of a common human nature, of course points to the source of that nature, i.e. to how human beings with our characteristics came to be in a world that did not always have humans in it." Yes, but that still doesn't address the questions I've asked. Of course I don't expect us to really have these answers. But I want to point out that there are different views on possible answers to these questions, not just one correct answer. And I'm especially interested in questions 2 and 3 below, because those are the practical issues that don't appear to be being addressed.
But various questions remain: are these part of a common core of features of human nature that arise from within, so to speak, or are they transcendent and are accessed from outside us? That’s question 1. Question 2 is how specific are they? They may include some version of “love thy neighbor as thyself”, but do they tell us specifically that things like gambling, drinking alcohol, divorce, etc. are wrong are not? Question 3: how do we know either the general or specific components of natural law? If two people disagree, what are the means by which the disagreement is settled. These are the practical questions that remain after one accepts the existence of natural law in a broad form, not tied to any specific world view or religious belief.
Viola Lee
February 16, 2021
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Jerry, There are several interesting things there and some points of overlap (as expected). My core discussion is that we are responsible, rational, significantly free creatures, who therefore have power of choice and face the challenge of choosing wisely and rightly; i.e. the is-ought gap in the form of choice. Further to this, we are not governed by blind computation through programming on a wetware computing substrate, though obviously we have one. The brain-CNS. Reduction to such ends in undermining rationality, ability to ground knowledge and decide on actual merits. As several leading advocates of evolutionary materialistic scientism acknowledge. The thing is, reason is not mechanical or stochastic, it is significantly free and governed by certain basic or core duties, first duties as I have called them. We can readily see that even objectors routinely appeal to them to give traction to their arguments. That is, these first duties are inescapable and so -- on pain of absurdity if we hold them delusional -- true, indeed self evidently true. Where as one of these duties is to first principles of right reason [core logic, see update to OP], we can show from Epictetus how that conclusion comes about:
DISCOURSES CHAPTER XXV How is logic necessary? When someone in [Epictetus'] audience said, Convince me that logic is necessary, he answered: Do you wish me to demonstrate this to you?—Yes.—Well, then, must I use a demonstrative argument?—And when the questioner had agreed to that, Epictetus asked him. How, then, will you know if I impose upon you?—As the man had no answer to give, Epictetus said: Do you see how you yourself admit that all this instruction is necessary, if, without it, you cannot so much as know whether it is necessary or not? [Notice, inescapable, thus self evidently true and antecedent to the inferential reasoning that provides deductive proofs and frameworks, including axiomatic systems and propositional calculus etc. Cf J. C. Wright]
Here, we see how first principles of logic -- starting with the principle of distinct identity and close corollaries, non contradiction and excluded middle -- are inescapable, are the basis on which we may demonstrate, are prior to proof. If one were to try to prove them, the attempt would inevitably use the same principles and would fail as a proof. So, we are driven to recognise them as inescapably and self-evidently true. It is by these, that we can prove. This is relevant to natural law -- better, built in law coeval with our humanity -- as such law begins with highest reason applied to justice. Cicero, is a good place to begin:
—Marcus [in de Legibus, introductory remarks,. C1 BC, being Cicero himself]: . . . we shall have to explain the true nature of moral justice, which is congenial and correspondent [36]with the true nature of man [--> we are seeing the root vision of natural law, coeval with our humanity] . . . . With respect to the true principle of justice, many learned men have maintained that it springs from Law. I hardly know if their opinion be not correct, at least, according to their own definition; for . “Law (say they) is the highest reason, implanted in nature, which prescribes those things which ought to be done, and forbids the contrary” . . . . They therefore conceive that the voice of conscience is a law, that moral prudence is a law, whose operation is to urge us to good actions, and restrain us from evil ones . . . [T]he origin of justice is to be sought in the divine law of eternal and immutable morality.
[--> this points to the wellsprings of reality, the only place where is and ought can be bridged; bridged through the inherently good utterly wise, maximally great necessary being, the creator God, which answers the Euthyphro dilemma and Hume's guillotine argument surprise on seeing reasoning is-is then suddenly a leap to ought-ought. IS and OUGHT are fused from the root]
This indeed is the true energy of nature, the very soul and essence of wisdom, the test of virtue and vice.
Here, i put my own admittedly compressed summary:
We can readily identify at least seven inescapable first duties of reason. "Inescapable," as they are so antecedent to reasoning that even the objector implicitly appeals to them; i.e. they are self-evident. Namely, duties, to truth, to right reason, to prudence, to sound conscience, to neighbour; so also, to fairness and justice etc. Such built-in . . . thus, universal . . . law is not invented by parliaments, kings or courts, nor can these principles and duties be abolished by such; they are recognised, often implicitly as an indelible part of our evident nature. Hence, "natural law," coeval with our humanity, famously phrased in terms of "self-evident . . . rights . . . endowed by our Creator" in the US Declaration of Independence, 1776. (Cf. Cicero in De Legibus, c. 50 BC.) Indeed, it is on this framework that we can set out to soundly understand and duly balance rights, freedoms and duties; which is justice, the pivot of law. The legitimate main task of government, then, is to uphold and defend the civil peace of justice through sound community order reflecting the built in, intelligible law of our nature. Where, as my right implies your duty a true right is a binding moral claim to be respected in life, liberty, honestly aquired property, innocent reputation etc. To so justly claim a right, one must therefore demonstrably be in the right. Likewise, Aristotle long since anticipated Pilate's cynical "what is truth?": truth says of what is, that it is; and of what is not, that it is not. [Metaphysics, 1011b, C4 BC.] Simple in concept, but hard to establish on the ground; hence -- in key part -- the duties to right reason, prudence, fairness etc. Thus, too, we may compose sound civil law informed by that built-in law of our responsibly, rationally free morally governed nature; from such, we may identify what is unsound or false thus to be reformed or replaced even though enacted under the colour and solemn ceremonies of law. The first duties, also, are a framework for understanding and articulating the corpus of built-in law of our morally governed nature, antecedent to civil laws and manifest our roots in the Supreme Law-giver, the inherently good, utterly wise and just creator-God, the necessary (so, eternal), maximally great being at the root of reality.
Such baseline principles do not exhaust law, but they lay out its framework. From which, we can then extend to the priority of justice in sound law passed by civil magistrates. Where, no, law is not equal to what those who control the legal presses issue under name, ceremonies and robes of law. Such are accountable to the built in intelligible first law coeval with our nature, and thus universal. To millustrate, there is a reason defamation, false and damaging accusation, is a tort. Sound reasoning is a premise of sound law, Prudence in a world of error requires that we show our working and why it is sound. Likewise, it draws the line where evils cannot be eradicated and must be regulated instead, an often bitter compromise (think, the failure of prohibition and why attempted prohibition of firearms will predictably fail). The duty to neighbour principle is shown in the concept duties of care, and fairness and justice are not merely ideals but plumb line principles that judge and correct unjust rulings. And so forth. KFkairosfocus
February 16, 2021
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Kf, You are getting attacked from different directions. My suggestion to you is to let it go and leave these attacks be. Don't answer them. Some are genuine but many are disingenuous. State you case as simply and clearly as possible. However, you seem to want to be always right and the final arbiter of all things. That is not possible. There is also the issue of just what are you saying. I have trouble understanding your writing and how you get from one point to another. The Great Courses has a course on Natural Law as well as several course on law. My guess is that if I went through these courses that I would understand your thought process. You arguments appear to be based on natural law. I have found few who understand just what natural law is, including me. So here are some definitions/commentsw from the Natural Law course published by the Great Courses. I own the audio version of the course and it's been several years since I have listened to any of them. Some excerpts
For the sake of addressing questions of law and politics in a religiously divided Europe, some early Protestant thinkers used the scholastic terminology of natural law to separate natural law from theology, by urging that natural law would still oblige, even if there were no God as the author of nature. Are the ultimate roots of natural law obligation matters of reason or will? That is, are natural law obligations ultimately binding because of decisions by the author of natural law, or are the obligations of natural law binding to human conscience, because it comes to understand the real natures of things? For example, in support of natural law, Blackstone states: “This law of nature, being coeval with mankind and dictated by nature, is superior in obligation to all others … No human laws are of any validity, if contrary to this.” unless we have an objective moral basis for law, it is difficult to see why there is any general obligation of obedience, and unless there is a universal priority in moral law, there could be no reasonable basis for civil disobedience against “unjust laws.” All there would ever be would be power struggles.
Right Reason
The “reason” mentioned here is not just the power to form concepts or to take part in logical argumentation, but right reason, a specifically moral power by which human beings can differentiate good and evil and can discern what is in harmony with human nature and what violates human nature. right reason: In natural law theory, the name for human reason operating well to discover the true natures of things and the norms that flow from the ends intrinsic to those natures; hence, a moral power by which human individuals can discern right from wrong, good from bad.
duty
categorical imperative: For Kant, the basic form of any moral obligation; the task of ethical reflection is to determine whether a proposed moral rule is truly universalizable and, thus, able to be reasonably asserted “categorically” as imposing the same duty on me as on everyone else to whom I think it should apply and, likewise, as allowing everyone else the same liberties that I myself want to claim. Likewise, one may ask if there are not certain duties that individuals and groups in any culture whatsoever will necessarily have when they find themselves in certain recurrent situations. If so, then the set of positive precepts of the natural law (such as the obligation to provide care for one’s offspring or the duty to honor one’s parents) can be claimed to be universal and objective, despite the fact that the specific ways in which we meet these duties may differ from one culture to another or even within a culture. Natural law refers to the moral obligation (rather than blind compulsion and necessity) that is specific to rational creatures as their way of participating by their reason in the eternal law through which nature governs the world. Divine law refers to the explicit revelation of the moral obligations that one should, in principle, be able to learn through discerning the natural law. This explicit revelation is designed to make clear what might be doubtful, especially for those without sufficient time or ability to reach clarity about the moral obligations of the natural law.
Further
There are three basic groups of natural inclination, and each yields insight into our natural law obligation. 1. There are those inclinations that human beings share with all other creatures, especially a desire to continue in existence. The corresponding moral imperatives include a prohibition on murder, suicide, and mutilation and the command to do what it takes in order to exist for oneself and others. There are some inclinations that human beings share with other animals, especially a desire to grow, reproduce, and use one’s powers of sensation and locomotion. The corresponding moral imperatives include the duties to care for one’s offspring, as well as prohibitions on activities that would imperil the propagation of the species. There are some inclinations that are unique to human beings by virtue of their possession of intellect and will, such as the desire to learn and to live in society. The corresponding moral imperatives include prohibitions on lying and on offending those with whom one must live, as well as the duties to honor one’s elders and to use one’s talents.
jerry
February 16, 2021
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F/N: I think it relevant to remind one and all of the contents of a particular natural law driven state paper, showing what is actually being stressed:
When . . . it becomes necessary for one people . . . to assume among the powers of the earth, the separate and equal station to which the Laws of Nature and of Nature's God [--> natural law context is explicit] entitle them, a decent respect to the opinions of mankind requires that they should declare the causes which impel them to the separation. We hold these truths to be self-evident, [cf Rom 1:18 - 21, 2:14 - 15; note, law as "the highest reason," per Cicero on received consensus], that all men are created equal [--> note, equality of humanity], that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness. --That to secure these rights, Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed, --That whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the Right of the People to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new Government, laying its foundation on such principles and organizing its powers in such form, as to them shall seem most likely to effect their Safety and Happiness. Prudence, indeed, will dictate that Governments long established should not be changed for light and transient causes; and accordingly all experience hath shewn, that mankind are more disposed to suffer, while evils are sufferable, than to right themselves by abolishing the forms to which they are accustomed. But when a long train of abuses and usurpations, pursuing invariably the same Object evinces a design to reduce them under absolute Despotism, it is their right, it is their duty, to throw off such Government, and to provide new Guards for their future security . . . . We, therefore, the Representatives of the united States of America, in General Congress, Assembled, appealing to the Supreme Judge of the world for the rectitude of our intentions [Cf. Judges 11:27], do, in the Name, and by the Authority of the good People of these Colonies, solemnly publish and declare, That these United Colonies are, and of Right ought to be Free and Independent States; that they are Absolved from all Allegiance to the British Crown, and that all political connection between them and the State of Great Britain, is and ought to be totally dissolved; and that as Free and Independent States, they have full Power to levy War, conclude Peace, contract Alliances, establish Commerce, and to do all other Acts and Things which Independent States may of right do. And for the support of this Declaration, with a firm reliance on the protection of divine Providence, we mutually pledge to each other our Lives, our Fortunes and our sacred Honor.
Notice, substantial equality, not supermen reigning over subhumans by dint of their superiority, and accordingly, nationhood under God [people form nations] is accompanied by government tasked to defend the civil peace of justice, particularly rights, through a compact with the people, who have a retained right to withdraw consent and reform or replace failed government. Today, by sound, honestly counted general elections. KFkairosfocus
February 16, 2021
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VL, that context is ever present at UD and needs to be addressed when it is suggested. The issue of a common human nature, of course points to the source of that nature, i.e. to how human beings with our characteristics came to be in a world that did not always have humans in it. That in a given generation, individuals will express what is now part of the characteristics of humans as they grow, develop and mature, is then secondary to the actual source of that nature. KFkairosfocus
February 16, 2021
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Hmmm. I don't believe I've talked about those well-known theories either. Questions about why things are as they are are of much less interest to me than just how they how. I take an experiential view of what it means to be a human being My conclusion, comparing my own internal experiences with my sociological, anthropological, and historical knowledge, is that human beings have some common characteristics - a common nature, that includes a moral nature that, just as the rest of us does, matures as we grow older. My other conclusion, based on my own internal experience and my knowledge of comparative religion and philosophy, is that explanations that this common nature has some external, transcendental source are not ontologically true. That is, the precepts of natural law, and whatever specificity they include (which doesn't appear to be much), don't enter us from the outside - from a transcendent source, but rather from the inside - from our common core nature. To quote myself from above:
I also believe our innate moral nature has to work with our rationality and what I am referring to as compassion (caring for others as well as ourself) to make decisions about what is right in specific real-world situations. Real-world situations usually present competing and even conflicting needs of different sorts, including moral, so often there isn’t one “right” answer: therefore each of us has to assess and decide what stand we want to take. That is, morality is a mixture of a core innate desire to do the right thing and the use of our rationality and compassion in any one situation to decide what that right thing is.
Viola Lee
February 16, 2021
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VL, in context of human origins, there are well known theories that purport to identify the roots of our humanity in genetic accidents filtered by differential reproductive success allegedly leading to body plan level modification. I am pointing out that there is no free lunch on required information and functional organisation. KFkairosfocus
February 16, 2021
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