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L&FP 41: George Barna helps us to understand the worldviews chaos we must address

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Barna has issued new survey results that paint a stunning picture of the bellwether United States, as an utterly confused, conflicted nation, with 88 percent defaulting to incongruous worldview components, with the single largest bloc being 39% inclined to “Moralistic Therapeutic Deism.” Of course, actual full adherence is at the 1% level. Biblical theism comes first on full adherence, at 6% but that is itself a radical shift of worldviews, probably reflecting the impact of generations of cultural elites hostile to the Gospel and Gospel ethics (most often articulated in terms of its being anti-Science, outdated and intellectually indefensible . . . the standard media and “education” narratives). Such elites have long since sought to overthrow the influence of the Christian Faith on our Civilisation, viewing it as a threat to their imagined ideal future.

Barna tabulates actual adherence:

Also, “leans to”:

We can clearly detect the breakdown of the impact of the Christian faith on the leading nation in our civilisation and the worldviews chaos that stems from it. The predominance of incongruous syncretistic, smorgasbord blends of beliefs shows how deeply conflicted people have become and it is for sure that the ability of such a people to think straight and act soundly is severely compromised. This is the crooked yardstick effect on steroids:

In political thinking, it clearly will lead to vulnerability to cynical, ruthless manipulators, thus to confused policy balances. This opens the door to the new Jacobinism on the rampage, thus the next door — the one to lawless oligarchy:

Doubtless, there are some who would be only too eager to see such happen, as it would open the door to terrible opportunities — and yes, that’s five years ago now:

What is to be done?

First, let us hear the ghost of Isaiah, speaking to hell-bent oligarchic elites c 700 BC, setting out on marches of folly that led to defeat, ruin and exile:

Isa 5:18 Woe to those who draw iniquity with cords of falsehood,
    who draw sin as with cart ropes,
19 who say: “Let him be quick,
    let him speed his work
    that we may see it;
let the counsel of the Holy One of Israel draw near,
    and let it come, that we may know it!”

20 Woe to those who call evil good
    and good evil,
who put darkness for light
    and light for darkness,
who put bitter for sweet
    and sweet for bitter!

21 Woe to those who are wise in their own eyes,
    and shrewd in their own sight!
22 Woe to those who are heroes at drinking wine,
    and valiant men in mixing strong drink,
23 who acquit the guilty for a bribe,
    and deprive the innocent of his right!

24 Therefore, as the tongue of fire devours the stubble,
    and as dry grass sinks down in the flame,
so their root will be as rottenness,
    and their blossom go up like dust;
for they have rejected the law of the Lord of hosts,
    and have despised the word of the Holy One of Israel. [ESV]

Severe but necessary.

A key step in fixing the rot is to learn to think worldviewishly, in a coherent, sound, prudent, responsible fashion.

Vocab:

worldview

Also found in: Thesaurus, Wikipedia.

world·view

(wûrld′vyo͞o′)n.1. The overall perspective from which one sees and interprets the world.2. A collection of beliefs about life and the universe held by an individual or a group. In both senses also called Weltanschauung.


[Translation of German Weltanschauung.]American Heritage® Dictionary of the English Language, Fifth Edition. Copyright © 2016 by Houghton Mifflin Harcourt Publishing Company. Published by Houghton Mifflin Harcourt Publishing Company. All rights reserved.

Welt•an•schau•ung

(ˈvɛltˌɑnˌʃaʊ ʊŋ)

n. German. a comprehensive conception or image of the universe and of humanity’s relation to it. [literally, world-view] Random House Kernerman Webster’s College Dictionary, © 2010 K Dictionaries Ltd. Copyright 2005, 1997, 1991 by Random House, Inc. All rights reserved.

To start with, ponder why we frame worldviews pivoting on first plausibles:

A summary of why we end up with foundations for our worldviews, whether or not we would phrase the matter that way}

In the now notorious “turtles” metaphor:

So, the pivotal question is sound worldviews choice, meeting the comparative difficulties challenge: factual adequacy, coherence, balanced explanatory power. Hasker [Metaphysics. IVP, 1983. Ch. 1] summarises how such comparative difficulties testing properly focuses:

  1. Factual adequacy: Does a worldview’s scope of explanations/insights (and predictions) account across time for and comfortably agree with the material “facts”– those that make a difference to our conclusions and decisions?  Are there key gaps, and/or contradictions to such “facts”? Are these claimed “facts” warranted to an appropriate degree? Relative to competing worldviews, are there fewer gaps and/or contradictions to such credible, well-warranted “facts”? But also, sometimes, quite diverse views are empirically equivalent, so “facts” generally under-determine the truth. That means that the two further tests are vital:
  2. Logical Coherence: Do the claims within a worldview (and their implications) support or deny one another?  For, if two such claims/implications contradict, at most one can be true.  (NB: Both may be false, or may refer to empty sets and so are vacuous. If a contradiction is important and cannot be excised without utterly changing the worldview into something else, this issue can be decisive. That is why the problem of evil is so important, and why the question of the evident incoherence of naturalism is also important, as has been ably discussed by Alvin Plantinga.) On the other hand, is the worldview’s key warranting argument merely circular; i.e. is it self-consistent, but at the cost of assuming what should be proved? However, on pain of absurd infinite regress, it is also manifest that the chain of proofs, explanations and evidence has to stop somewhere. So, is the resulting faith-/ presuppositions- point at least comparably credible to that of “live option” alternatives? Now, too, as systems rub up against alternatives and more and more credible facts, they are often “patched,” over and over, to keep them “viable,” i.e. matching facts and avoiding circularity or self-contradiction. But, too often that is at the expense of becoming a patchwork of ad hoc assumptions. Thus, the third test arises:
  3. Explanatory Power — i.e. simplicity vs ad hocness: Credible worldviews UNIFY the facts/entities of reality as we discover them across time, showing how they relate, interact and/or work together; thus, giving us powerful insights, clear vision and solid, sustainable guidelines/principles for thought, decisions and life. [Cf. Prov. 1:1 – 7.] This helps equip us to know, love and live by, wisdom — the ultimate goal of philosophy. In turn, wisdom allows us to understand, predict and influence/shape the world, to the good. To do that unifying task well — as William of Occam argues, in his famous “Razor”: hypotheses should not be multiplied without necessity — worldviews should use a relatively few, plausible but powerful core beliefs that are consistent, tie together the material facts, bring out the dynamics that drive how the world “works,” and give us “handles” by which we can influence the course of events towards the good. Thus, such a worldview should avoid the continual need to patch newly discovered gaps by repeatedly tacking on yet another assumption or assertion. For, if that happens, the resulting view soon becomes an ad hoc patchwork of after-the-fact claims, “justified” by the argument that these additions patch holes in the system. (Ignoring or suppressing such gaps and/or censoring discussion of them is even worse — and, too often resorted to by those whose credibility and interests are invested in a socially powerful but failing system. Cf. Plato’s Parable of the Cave, and also Matt. 6:22.) But equally, Einstein aptly observed that every theory should be as simple as possible — but not simpler than that. That is, there is a difference between being simple (or, “elegant”) and being simplistic: failing to come to grips with the credibly established complexities — and sometimes just plain strangeness and mystery — of the world. So, relative to the live options, is the view more or less elegant or an ad hoc patchwork; or, is it simplistic?

That is where we can begin. Just maybe, it is not already too late. END

PS: I adapt Francis Schaeffer’s “line of Despair” analysis:

Extending (and correcting) Schaeffer’s vision of the course of western thought, worldviews and culture, C1 – 21

U/D Apr 24: An illustration on factors and influences in worldview formation:

Here, we can observe how our perceptions stimulate our thinking, which is also influenced by available knowledge, opinions and views including on key themes tied to core ideas on the world and oneself in it. As we work through our interior lives, we have perceptions, expectations, emotions, focus of attention, reasoning/logic, valuing informed by sense of duty/morals, solution strategies for challenges, discernment, decisions and judgements, actions and influences. As embodied agents in a world and community, we orient ourselves, move, manipulate objects, communicate.

Knowledge and its warrant are key issues, raising questions of reliability, credible truth, degree of certainty, possibility of error, opinion vs soundness and more. Such is a gateway to characteristic themes of philosophy:

  • the nature of knowledge and its credibility [epistemology]
  • the nature of reality — what exists, whence, what is the world, what are we etc [metaphysics embracing ontology, logic of being],
  • the accepted “world story” that uses these elements to build a narrative on how the world came to be or always was, how we came to be in it, how we are where we are now, why we are as we are
  • similarly, where are we headed individually and collectively
  • what death is and signifies
  • what is ultimate or source reality, or does such exist
  • what is duty, what of right and wrong, what of beauty [axiology, ethics and aesthetics]
  • what, then, is valuable and to be prized
  • thus, religions, philosophies, ideologies, mindsets etc and associated “plausibility structures”:

“In sociology and especially the sociological study of religion, plausibility structures are the sociocultural contexts for systems of meaning within which these meanings make sense, or are made plausible. Beliefs and meanings held by individuals and groups are supported by, and embedded in, sociocultural institutions and processes.” [Semantic Scholar, using Wikipedia]

  • what is seemingly or actually sensible, reasonable or logical [logic, plausibility, epistemology, ethics etc]
  • what is knowledge, what is known, why, who or what hold credibility, authority and wisdom, why should we trust such sources [epistemology, logic, language, decision-making, governance, policy, law and justice, politics, ponder Plato’s parables of the Cave and of the Ship of State (cf. Ac 27 as a real-life microcosm)]
  • Hence, we may see the significance of the following progression of equations:

1: WORLDVIEW + POLICY/CULTURAL AGENDA = IDEOLOGY

2: IDEOLOGY + POWER/STRONG INFLUENCE = REGIME

3: REGIME (AKA, BALANCE OF POWER-FACTIONS) + DECISION-MAKING INFLUENCES = BUSINESS AS USUAL (BAU)
_______________________________________________

4: BAU + INSISTENT VOYAGE OF SINFUL FOLLY = SHIPWRECK

  • what makes for a good and successful life
  • is there direct awareness of knowledge, i.e. intuition
  • is there knowledge communicated from God, revelation
  • etc

These help us to understand how we come to have a worldview. And, of how and why, in Francis Schaeffer’s phrase, “ideas have consequences.”

It is worth adding, that once a certain pattern of worldviews, associated patterns of attitudes, expectations, values, life goals etc is established, this model can help us identify the likely reaction to situations, trends, shocks, messages, communication etc.

So, worldviews mapping as Barna did has highly practical use.

Comments
Jerry, you are wrong on that subject. There are cases for one liners, for one paragraphers, for clips fromj references and there are cases for an essay or a fisking. I have said enough so we can return to focus on a pivotal issue, worldviews. KFkairosfocus
April 24, 2021
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deal with the whole.
It could have been done in 300-500 words tops. You essentially did not deal with whatever challenge you perceived because no one will read what you wrote. So you did not deal with anything.jerry
April 24, 2021
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Jerry, you apparently failed to note that I made brief responses then was challenged to deal with the whole. I did so, highlighting a network of mutually reinforcing fallacies that make a redundant plausibility framework that is highly misleading and obviously persuasive to many. I took time to correct it and will use that as a point of reference onward. KFkairosfocus
April 24, 2021
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why for example I took time to Fisk a certain philosopher of science
It would take only one or two sentences to do so. For example,
No atheist or agnostic has any justification for their belief based on science. No one who believes the ideas of Darwin has any justification for their belief in how evolution occurred
If Wilkins endorsed Darwin’s ideas then he’s a failure as a philosopher of science. And thus probably discredited on most everything else in terms of science. So why pay attention to him?jerry
April 24, 2021
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Jerry, what makes you imagine you are right? Do you think that oh I don't like this or that and I TLDR will shift the balance on merits now and onwards? Do you have any idea why for example I took time to Fisk a certain philosopher of science? Apart from TLDR, do you have any substantial response to the range of fallacies involved? Why do you think so many find such a layer cake of fallacies appealing? KFkairosfocus
April 24, 2021
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Kf, You have written over 5000 words of which I guess no one but you have read. For what purpose? Certainly not to convince anyone else of anything. If it is for one's own edification a lot less would do since from a cursory glance a large amount appears to be repeats of things posted many times before. Are there worldview? Do people have them? Wilkin's claims to not have one and says they do not exist. So have you written 5000+ words for nothing. He says
But the simple fact is, I don’t have a worldview. In fact, neither do they. I don’t think worldviews exist.
If you kept to that one point and in 300 words or less, we might all be better off including yourself. Now, I happen to disagree with Wilkins because I have a worldview and it's simple
Christianity plus individual freedom leads to all the worthy objectives man can have
I am willing to defend it against all comers but in simple exchanges. Aside: Wilkins describes ID incorrectly and seems to take the view it is essentially creationism implying it is a variant of Young Earth Creationism. For that alone he is deficient and should be ignored as a reliable source.jerry
April 24, 2021
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PS: Plato’s Socrates spoke to this sort of situation, long since, in the famous ship of state parable in The Republic, Bk VI -- and this is a story, there is no excuse not to take it in and ponder its significance:
>>[Soc.] I perceive, I said, that you are vastly amused at having plunged me into such a hopeless discussion; but now hear the parable, and then you will be still more amused at the meagreness of my imagination: for the manner in which the best men are treated in their own States is so grievous that no single thing on earth is comparable to it; and therefore, if I am to plead their cause, I must have recourse to fiction, and put together a figure made up of many things, like the fabulous unions of goats and stags which are found in pictures. Imagine then a fleet or a ship in which there is a captain [–> often interpreted, ship’s owner] who is taller and stronger than any of the crew, but he is a little deaf and has a similar infirmity in sight, and his knowledge of navigation is not much better. [= The people own the community and in the mass are overwhelmingly strong, but are ill equipped on the whole to guide, guard and lead it] The sailors are quarrelling with one another about the steering – every one is of opinion that he has a right to steer [= selfish ambition to rule and dominate], though he has never learned the art of navigation and cannot tell who taught him or when he learned, and will further assert that it cannot be taught, and they are ready to cut in pieces any one who says the contrary. They throng about the captain, begging and praying him to commit the helm to them [–> kubernetes, steersman, from which both cybernetics and government come in English]; and if at any time they do not prevail, but others are preferred to them, they kill the others or throw them overboard [ = ruthless contest for domination of the community], and having first chained up the noble captain’s senses with drink or some narcotic drug [ = manipulation and befuddlement, cf. the parable of the cave], they mutiny and take possession of the ship and make free with the stores; thus, eating and drinking, they proceed on their voyage in such a manner as might be expected of them [–> Cf here Luke’s subtle case study in Ac 27]. Him who is their partisan and cleverly aids them in their plot for getting the ship out of the captain’s hands into their own whether by force or persuasion [–> Nihilistic will to power on the premise of might and manipulation making ‘right’ ‘truth’ ‘justice’ ‘rights’ etc], they compliment with the name of sailor, pilot, able seaman, and abuse the other sort of man, whom they call a good-for-nothing; but that the true pilot must pay attention to the year and seasons and sky and stars and winds, and whatever else belongs to his art, if he intends to be really qualified for the command of a ship, and that he must and will be the steerer, whether other people like or not-the possibility of this union of authority with the steerer’s art has never seriously entered into their thoughts or been made part of their calling. Now in vessels which are in a state of mutiny and by sailors who are mutineers, how will the true pilot be regarded? Will he not be called by them a prater, a star-gazer, a good-for-nothing? [Ad.] Of course, said Adeimantus. [Soc.] Then you will hardly need, I said, to hear the interpretation of the figure, which describes the true philosopher in his relation to the State [ --> here we see Plato's philosoppher-king emerging]; for you understand already. [Ad.] Certainly. [Soc.] Then suppose you now take this parable to the gentleman who is surprised at finding that philosophers have no honour in their cities; explain it to him and try to convince him that their having honour would be far more extraordinary. [Ad.] I will. [Soc.] Say to him, that, in deeming the best votaries of philosophy to be useless to the rest of the world, he is right; but also tell him to attribute their uselessness to the fault of those who will not use them, and not to themselves. The pilot should not humbly beg the sailors to be commanded by him –that is not the order of nature; neither are ‘the wise to go to the doors of the rich’ –the ingenious author of this saying told a lie –but the truth is, that, when a man is ill, whether he be rich or poor, to the physician he must go, and he who wants to be governed, to him who is able to govern. [--> the issue of competence and character as qualifications to rule] The ruler who is good for anything ought not to beg his subjects to be ruled by him [ --> down this road lies the modern solution: a sound, well informed people will seek sound leaders, who will not need to manipulate or bribe or worse, and such a ruler will in turn be checked by the soundness of the people, cf. US DoI, 1776]; although the present governors of mankind are of a different stamp; they may be justly compared to the mutinous sailors, and the true helmsmen to those who are called by them good-for-nothings and star-gazers. [Ad.] Precisely so, he said. [Soc] For these reasons, and among men like these, philosophy, the noblest pursuit of all, is not likely to be much esteemed by those of the opposite faction [--> the sophists, the Demagogues, Alcibiades and co, etc]; not that the greatest and most lasting injury is done to her by her opponents, but by her own professing followers, the same of whom you suppose the accuser to say, that the greater number of them are arrant rogues, and the best are useless; in which opinion I agreed [--> even among the students of the sound state (here, political philosophy and likely history etc.), many are of unsound motivation and intent, so mere education is not enough, character transformation is critical]. [Ad.] Yes. [Soc.] And the reason why the good are useless has now been explained? [Ad.] True. [Soc.] Then shall we proceed to show that the corruption of the majority is also unavoidable [--> implies a need for a corruption-restraining minority providing proverbial salt and light, cf. Ac 27, as well as justifying a governing structure turning on separation of powers, checks and balances], and that this is not to be laid to the charge of philosophy any more than the other? [Ad.] By all means. [Soc.] And let us ask and answer in turn, first going back to the description of the gentle and noble nature.[ -- > note the character issue] Truth, as you will remember, was his leader, whom he followed always and in all things [ --> The spirit of truth as a marker]; failing in this, he was an impostor, and had no part or lot in true philosophy [--> the spirit of truth is a marker, for good or ill] . . . >>
(There is more than an echo of this in Acts 27, a real world case study. [Luke, a physician, was an educated Greek with a taste for subtle references.] This blog post, on soundness in policy, will also help)kairosfocus
April 24, 2021
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F/N: In his analysis, Barna went on to profile the core adherents to key worldviews and the lean-towards penumbra. Such a mapping is not without significance:
Which people groups are most likely to lean toward specific worldviews, even if they do not fully embrace those beliefs and behaviors? Biblical Worldview: SAGE Cons (Spiritually Active Governance Engaged Conservative Christians), theological evangelicals, born-again Christians, political conservatives, and registered Republicans are the most likely to possess a Biblical Theism perspective. Moralistic Therapeutic Deism: Spiritual skeptics, LGBTQ adults, those not registered to vote, political liberals, and individuals who attend a predominantly black, or Catholic church are the most common adherents of this worldview. Secular Humanism: Spiritual skeptics, residents of the Western region of the United States, people 75 or older, and political liberals dominate those who support this life perspective. Postmodernism: Spiritual skeptics, residents of the northeastern and western states, people with a Bachelor’s degree, and political liberals are the most common adopters of Postmodern beliefs and behaviors. Why the Numbers Are Not Bigger These outcomes beg the question as to why more Americans do not have a more dynamic and cohesive worldview. According to George Barna, who directed the research for the Cultural Research Center, one important reason is that Americans are not directly taught about worldview as part of their education. “Worldview in America develops by default,” he explained . . .
The pattern is clear, the breakdown of the Christian consensus driven by skepticism and associated with a messianistic political ideology of "liberalism" has alienated many from the past consensus and has led to a politics that caters to that. The dominance of belief in God still prevails, but many have been alienated from specifics of Bible based, gospel theology and its integral ethics which in key part endorse Ciceronian core natural law premises and first duties. Such has been heavily embedded in schooling and the media. The consequences play out in new plausibility structures that are imagined superior to dogmatic, outdated, right wing, would be theocratic "fundamentalism" and as a result "the religious/white nationalist [= "nazi" in more direct terms]" right is perceived as a main threat to "democracy [or should that be, rule by the manipulated or even perceived crowd -- who validates and counts the votes, with what transparency?]" and to novel "rights." Deeply missing, first, recognition of self-evident first duties of reason, pivot of the built in law of our inescapably morally governed nature:
We can readily identify at least seven inescapable first duties of reason. "Inescapable," as they are so antecedent to reasoning that even the objector implicitly appeals to them; i.e. they are self-evident. Namely, duties, to truth, to right reason, to prudence, to sound conscience, to neighbour; so also, to fairness and justice etc. Of course, there is a linked but not equivalent pattern: bounded, error-prone rationality often tied to ill will and stubbornness or even closed mindedness; that’s why the study of right reason has a sub-study on fallacies and errors. That we sometimes seek to evade duties or may make inadvertent errors does not overthrow the first duties of reason, which instead help us to detect and correct errors, as well as to expose our follies. Perhaps, a negative form will help to clarify, for cause we find to be at best hopelessly error-riddled, those who are habitually untruthful, fallacious and/or irrational, imprudent, fail to soundly warrant claims, show a benumbed or dead conscience [i.e. sociopathy and/or highly machiavellian tendencies], dehumanise and abuse others, are unfair and unjust. At worst, such are utterly dangerous, destructive,or even ruthlessly, demonically lawless. Such built-in . . . thus, universal . . . law, then, is not invented by parliaments, kings or courts, nor can these principles and duties be abolished by such; they are recognised, often implicitly as an indelible part of our evident nature. Hence, "natural law," coeval with our humanity, famously phrased in terms of "self-evident . . . rights . . . endowed by our Creator" in the US Declaration of Independence, 1776. (Cf. Cicero in De Legibus, c. 50 BC.) Indeed, it is on this framework that we can set out to soundly understand and duly balance rights, freedoms and duties; which is justice, the pivot of law. The legitimate main task of government, then, is to uphold and defend the civil peace of justice through sound community order reflecting the built in, intelligible law of our nature. Where, as my right implies your duty a true right is a binding moral claim to be respected in life, liberty, honestly aquired property, innocent reputation etc. To so justly claim a right, one must therefore demonstrably be in the right. Likewise, Aristotle long since anticipated Pilate's cynical "what is truth?": truth says of what is, that it is; and of what is not, that it is not. [Metaphysics, 1011b, C4 BC.] Simple in concept, but hard to establish on the ground; hence -- in key part -- the duties to right reason, prudence, fairness etc. Thus, too, we may compose sound civil law informed by that built-in law of our responsibly, rationally free morally governed nature; from such, we may identify what is unsound or false thus to be reformed or replaced even though enacted under the colour and solemn ceremonies of law. The first duties, also, are a framework for understanding and articulating the corpus of built-in law of our morally governed nature, antecedent to civil laws and manifest our roots in the Supreme Law-giver, the inherently good, utterly wise and just creator-God, the necessary (so, eternal), maximally great being at the root of reality.
In that light, second, failure to understand and acknowledge that justice is due balance of rights, freedoms and duties. So, for instance, no one may justly claim a right that compels another to lie about manifest truths [starting with the significance of XX and XY chromosomes], or to do wrong or to uphold oneself in doing wrong. This is increasingly the flash-point of American culture, politics, policy, law, education and media and it will compound with the culture form marxist critical race theory and other intentionally subversive agendas to ramp up the ongoing 4th generation civil war, part of a wider global war in the shadows. Already, the black theme colour, colour revolution push and red guards baying in the streets and media pose a warning i/l/o Isaiah's indictment of the Judaean elites c 700 BC. The predictable consequences on current line of drift are stark and destructive. The issue is, can we veer the ship of state off from the line of wind in our cultural storm, to shipwreck at a Malta, a haven [such is the meaning of the name]? That is very much an open question. KFkairosfocus
April 24, 2021
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U/D: I have added an illustration on formation of a worldview. KFkairosfocus
April 23, 2021
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VL, kindly observe who is the poster of the OP. Consider the context of that OP and Sev's comment, thus why I took up his challenge and addressed it point by point. You entered late and endorsed a seriously flawed argument, which is why I pointed out that there were corrections to flaws on the table -- including specifically in the chunk you used, and in what it depends on. On your just now exclusionary remark, sorry, this is a forum not a place for private exchanges or for side debates on UD's dime. Would you have preferred if I had simply clicked the box that prevents comments, an option that is there? KFkairosfocus
April 23, 2021
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That's fine. My original posts were not directed to you, and I didn't invite you to respond to me. And just in case you missed it the first two times I posted it, I wrote at 48, "Quoting part of something is not a blanket endorsement of the whole thing. (In fact, I don’t even agree with every single aspect of the part I quoted: I just found it interesting enough to stimulate a post of my own.)"Viola Lee
April 23, 2021
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VL, I have said enough for record. There is no need for me to get into a crocodile death roll of successive toxic tangents that invite personalities rather than focussing on the merits and issues of actually crucial significance for our civilisation. Particularly, there is nothing exceptional or dubious or dogmatically imposing -- as opposed to doing 101 analysis -- in my literally dictionary based framing of what a worldview is. Worldviews are highly significant and key trends are highlighted by Mr Barna with sobering import for the US and therefore the world. We would do well to ponder where we are, where we are heading and whether that is a safe path. KF PS: You endorsed something that is demonstrably deeply flawed.kairosfocus
April 23, 2021
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I was not, and am not, interested in dissecting Wilkins post. I picked a part that I liked, and commented on it. If you would like to comment on my comment than I'll probably be glad to respond. But as I said above, quoting part of something is not a blanket endorsement of the whole thing. (In fact, I don't even agree with every single aspect of the part I quoted: I just found it interesting enough to stimulate a post of my own.) So, to repeat, I'm not interested in all the things you find wrong with Wilkins' quote. I'm willing to discuss specific parts of my posts 29 and 32.Viola Lee
April 23, 2021
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Know better than what? That was a cryptic post???Viola Lee
April 23, 2021
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VL, you know better than that. Indeed, so much so that it is clear that the rhetoric of dismissiveness is a way to evade addressing the substantial issues on the table. It saddens me to have to say such, but that is clear. This prof set up and knocked over a strawman, in part turning on improperly conflating worldviews and religion, i.e. appeal to prejudice. He tried a tired out dodge on agnosticism and refused to acknowledge what a proposition asserted and believed is, a truth claim. Worldviews are not dubious exercises of dogma, they are -- as even Wikipedia concedes against interest -- a significant innovation of German philosophy [the second Euro tongue to make philosophy at home by hammering out a whole new vocab]. One, that identifies that our reasoning and believing sets out our view of the world, recognising major frames of thought. Of which, ethical monotheism is one family, with the Judaeo-Christian tradition and the Christian form being particularly historically and currently important in our neck of the woods. Where, worldviews can turn on other approaches such as evolutionary materialistic scientism or Marxism in its many forms such as the currently active critical race theory. The gambit of trying a vice between having to fight hyperskeptical dismissiveness on basic vocabulary and playing games on oh we TLDR what we want etc, fails. This summary needs the substantial response to work with, especially after brief remarks and summaries or even what should have been obvious from readily accessible dictionaries were brushed aside. The record stands. KF PS: Relevant vocabulary:
fisk (f?sk) v. fisked, fisk·ing, fisks v.tr. To criticize and refute (a published article or argument), especially in point-by-point or line-by-line fashion on a blog. v.intr. To fisk an article or argument. [After Robert Fisk (born 1946), British journalist, some of whose controversial reports on the Middle East were criticized on blogs.] American Heritage® Dictionary of the English Language, Fifth Edition. Copyright © 2016 by Houghton Mifflin Harcourt Publishing Company. Published by Houghton Mifflin Harcourt Publishing Company. All rights reserved.
This becomes particularly relevant when there are multiple layers of fallacies or errors involved in what needs correcting.kairosfocus
April 23, 2021
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It seems to me the place to start is one person at a time, both articulating the need and modelling good behavior. My earlier response was to have tolerance for diversity. We are not likely to go back to being as homogenous a society as we once were, so we need to find some unity in respecting and living with different ways of seeing and being in the world. Of course, some differences will seem more significant than others to not be tolerant about, but then we need to take the attitude that we are human beings and common citizens into our problem solving.Viola Lee
April 23, 2021
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>Is there not a middle ground that avoids cult leaders, and avoids disunifying individualism? That was a rhetorical question. In slightly shorter form, we'd better find that middle way soon.EDTA
April 23, 2021
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I have gone to Wilkin’s blog to see what he is saying in general. https://evolvingthoughts.net/ About 7 years ago he reviewed and highly recommended a book on the teaching of evolution. It is
Understanding Evolution by Kostas Kampourakis
I’ve since gotten a copy online and will read parts to see what it says.jerry
April 23, 2021
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I tried to read what you wrote about the part I quoted, and it's hard to see anything other your standard railing in your standard, disjointed style. You seem to think your writing style of continual interjections is effective, but it isn't. If you want me to consider the "deep flaws", maybe you could address them more clearly and succinctly, with less over-the top rhetoric. And, perhaps you can point to specific things I wrote in response, and show some evidence that you actually considered what I wrote, instead of having some knee-jerk reaction to themes that you are, perhaps mistakenly, assuming are being referenced. Try some of that, and maybe I'll pay attention to you.Viola Lee
April 23, 2021
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VL, your refusal to consider that there may be deep flaws in what you endorsed speaks for itself. KFkairosfocus
April 23, 2021
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I don't think we'd be having the worldview discussion, if it weren't for atheists and the like, being bad people, with bad judgements. The nazi's objectified personal character of people, as a matter of biological fact. That was the basis of their worldview. The creationist worldview says that personal character is a subjective issue, because personal character is on the side of what makes a choice. So two diametrically opposed worldviews, personal character is a matter of fact forced by evidence, or personal character is a matter of chosen judgement. The nazi tries to be emotionless, measuring and calculating, in producing a conclusion on what someone's personal charater is. While the creationist, they can be charitable, merciful, or even mean, in producing a judgement on what someone's character is. The nazi is really the exponent of all of why we complain about evolution theory, atheism, materialism, scientism etc. People who just don't accept the validity of the concept of personal opinion, as distinct from the concept of fact. People who have thrown out the entire subjective category from reality, the creator category.mohammadnursyamsu
April 23, 2021
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Jerry, there is a need to answer an argument in detail, as shown by ill advised endorsements. Perhaps you won't look at it but the record is important. It has not prevailed by default. KFkairosfocus
April 23, 2021
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KF writes, "VL, kindly note from just above how flawed the text chunk is." I note exactly what Jerry said: "No one is going to read a comment that is disjointed, has 44 separate points and is over 2500 words long." That is the flaw that I noted. I'll also point out to KF and Sandy that quoting favorably a portion of longer quoted material, which I did, is not a blanket endorsement of every statement in the longer quoted material.Viola Lee
April 23, 2021
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Jerry Kf, No one is going to read a comment that is disjointed, has 44 separate points and is over 2500 words long. So why make it?
True.Sandy
April 23, 2021
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Kf, No one is going to read a comment that is disjointed, has 44 separate points and is over 2500 words long. So why make it? Take a couple of the most egregious points and refute them as simply as possible. If you want to pile on do it in another short comment.jerry
April 23, 2021
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A maths teacher eats from maths invented by God and says that there is no God. Imagine that.Sandy
April 23, 2021
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VL, kindly note from just above how flawed the text chunk is. KFkairosfocus
April 23, 2021
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Seversky, I now clip and comment on your text-chunk from a certain philosopher of science: >> Worldviews.>> 1: Sufficiently defined and noted as to history that it should be clear the term is general, rooted in German work on Philosophy over the past several centuries, and is generally useful, It is not a term of insult or a dubious rhetorical assertion. >>Both pro speakers made mention of the fact that “atheism/agnosticism is a worldview of naturalism”.>> 2: Relevant forms of atheism and/or agnosticism as commonly found across Western Civilisation are in fact evolutionary materialistic and are further characterised in a great many cases by scientism. Taken together, such can properly be termed naturalism. >> Now this is a theme that is repeated so often one might start to believe it>> 3: The facts are readily shown to support 2 just above. >> if not for the fact that it licenses the following argument: Christianity is a worldview that rests on a set of presuppositions. Atheism and agnosticism is a worldview that rests on a set of presuppositions. One’s choice of presuppositions makes one’s worldview reasonable. === Ergo, Christianity is a reasonable belief (at least as rational as agnosticism/atheism)>> 4: This argument fails to recognise that the reasonableness or otherwise of a worldview has to do with its factual adequacy, coherence and explanatory power under comparative difficulties. 5: The subtext invites the view that the Christian faith is being held as a poster-child for being unreasonable coming out the starting box, i.e. irresponsible for a reasonably informed person. >> Similar arguments are put that “belief” in science is on a par with belief in Jesus or the Bible,>> 6: The world of difference between science and scientism, case by case strengths and limitations of warrant for various scientific claims, inability of science to establish truth beyond correction etc are being glided over. Such seems to reflect scientism [the idea that science monopolises credible knowledge, which as an epistemological i.e. philosophical claim, self-contradicts and self-falsifies], not science. 7: Evolutionary materialistic scientism is indeed a worldview, one that often likes to term itself Science. >> and so this is really about duelling worldviews.>> 8: Evolutionary materialistic scientism already fails on the scientism. The reduction of mind to computational substrate or the like leads to self-referential discredit, as say Haldane pointed out:
"It seems to me immensely unlikely that mind is a mere by-product of matter. For if my mental processes are determined wholly by the motions of atoms in my brain [–> taking in DNA, epigenetics and matters of computer organisation, programming and dynamic-stochastic processes] I have no reason to suppose that my beliefs are true. They may be sound chemically, but that does not make them sound logically. And hence I have no reason for supposing my brain to be composed of atoms. In order to escape from this necessity of sawing away the branch on which I am sitting, so to speak, I am compelled to believe that mind is not wholly conditioned by matter.” ["When I am dead," in Possible Worlds: And Other Essays [1927], Chatto and Windus: London, 1932, reprint, p.209. Cf. here on (and esp here) on the self-refutation by self-falsifying self referential incoherence and on linked amorality.]
>> That is, about which religion is correct.>> 9: Worldview is not a synonym for religion, and worldviews in general are too big and too bristling with difficulties and controversies, points of faith commitments, variations between individuals, schools of thought and traditions, etc to be simply as a blanket whole endorsed or dismissed. Save, when absolutely core commitments are manifestly, irretrievably in self contradiction or when such are in contradiction to manifest facts [not opinions or fashionable views wearing the guise of fact]. And even so, many parts will still have substantial truth in them. >> But there’s a couple of deep flaws here. Agnosticism is the absence of knowledge about a god-claim.>> 10: Where refusal to acknowledge warrant for knowledge of God on a personal basis of living encounter or on general argument may have more to do with hyperskepticism and a priori commitments than to actual warrant on the merits. Where, further, such belief in want of warrant or rather disbelief, is as a rule a component of commitment to another system of thought, evolutionary materialistic scientism or its fellow travellers. 11: So, whether or no the presenters aptly described the worldviews context, it is there and someone with professional standing as a philosopher is duty-bound to acknowledge this. >> Atheism is the absence of a god-claim. Absences, although they may make the heart grow fonder, have no other implications.>> 12: This clever redefinition of atheism is at least as old as prof Buchner's discussion with Darwin before he died, i.e. the a is privative etc. It was then and is now fundamentally misleading and manipulative. For, atheists specifically reject, object to and deny the existence of God, they are not merely without knowledge of or belief in him. 13: Ignorance can be due to want of information or awareness, active rejection is not mere absence that can neatly pretend to the default that extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence, a fallacy. 14: For in truth, all that epistemology can rightly say is that claims require adequate, appropriate warrant. Which cannot demand an infinite regress nor is it equivalent to deductive chains of proof from undeniable axioms. Where, the active disbelief in God is just as much a worldview claim as is belief. >> They cannot, for they are not-things, not things, and for something to have a property or implication it has to be a thing.>> 15: Fallacies carried forward. >> In simpler terms, as the old saying has it, bald is not a hair colour. Not believing in some religion is not a religion.>> 16: Strawman tactic, irresponsible redefinition of worldview as "religion" here leads to a further fallacy of distraction. Disbelief in God or in the tenets of a religion may not be a part of one's own religion but they certainly can be and typically are part of one's own commitment to another worldview. >> It may be that those who are either agnostic about Christianity, or atheist about it, have some other set of commitments that might qualify as a religion,>> 17: Again, we see the fallacy of substituting "religion" used in a loaded way for worldview. Where, there is more than enough scholarship on worldviews for a philosopher of science to know and do better. >> but they do not need to, just in virtue of being a not-theist or a not-knower.>> 18: Fallacies carried forward. >> So the choice is between believing in Christianity or not-believing in Christianity. It is not a case of commensurable religions, but a religion and no religion.>> 19: The issue of choice between worldviews, on comparative difficulties is again suppressed by injecting the term "religion" as a loaded substitute for worldview. >> This is the privative fallacy, from the old term for a lack of something.>> 19: Yup, the old tactic resurfaces, it was manipulative in Darwin's day and remains so today. >>The other error is more widespread. I was in effect accused of having a worldview that precluded the existence of God,>> 20: I do not know the specific circumstances of this individual, but in fact there are many cases, especially connected to a priori commitment to evolutionary materialistic scientism. Here is for example, the famed Scientist Monod in his 1971 Chance and Necessity:
[T]he basic premise of the scienti?c method, . . . [is] that nature is objective and not projective [= a project of an agent]. Hence it is through reference to our own activity, con-scious and projective, intentional and purposive-it is as | makers of artifacts-that we judge of a given object’s “naturalness” or “arti?cialness.” [pp. 3 – 4] . . . . [T]he postulate of objectivity is consubstantial with science: it has guided the whole of its prodigious develop-ment for three centuries. There is no way to be rid of it, even tentatively or in a limited area, without departing from the domain of science itself. [p. 21]
21: Further to such, in a 1971 television interview, Monod asserted — tellingly — as follows:
[T]he scientific attitude implies what I call the postulate of objectivity—that is to say, the fundamental postulate that there is no plan, that there is no intention in the universe. Now, this is basically incompatible with virtually all the religious or metaphysical systems whatever, all of which try to show that there is some sort of harmony between man and the universe and that man is a product—predictable if not indispensable—of the evolution of the universe.— Jacques Monod [Quoted in John C. Hess, ‘French Nobel Biologist Says World Based On Chance’, New York Times (15 Mar 1971), p. 6. Cited in Herbert Marcuse, Counter-Revolution and Revolt (1972), p. 66.]
22: Fair comment, that is an a priori that expresses scientism and locks in the view that the cosmos -- effectively reality for such a person -- has no design, i.e. God is ruled out as part of defining Science which monopolises knowledge for such a person. 23: Therefore the philosopher has set up and knocked over a strawman. >>and the audience was invited to compare that with my opponents, who had one that permitted God.>> 24: If he was acting like Monod, that was entirely appropriate. >> But the simple fact is, I don’t have a worldview. >> 25: This is patently false and the philosopher should know that. Every person, much less every educated person has a view on what is real, what isn't, what the world is, what and who he or she is, how or why s/he came to be and should proceed with life in society etc. >>In fact, neither do they. I don’t think worldviews exist. They are a gross oversimplification of what is actually going on inside people’s heads, and are mere abstractions.>> 26: Strawman. Worldviews are complex indeed, are abstract indeed as they are conceptual. But they therefore exist as conceptual systems and structures, with all the issues and challenges entailed. >> If one believes in God, one might still believe things that are inconsistent with a belief in God. >> 27: Which means there is a degree of incoherence involved in one's worldview, not that one does not have a worldview. >>Intellectual schemes are not whole cloth, and you can entertain incompatible ideas,>> 28: He here substitutes a rough synonym for what he wants to deride, refusing to acknowledge the validity he has thereby implied. 29: No one has seriously claimed that all or most worldviews are coherent, so inconsistencies and linked difficulties are part of comparative difficulties analysis. Again, a strawman. >> and in fact I think you must, because nobody gets a simple set of coherent ideas handed to them at birth, free of all confounding beliefs.>> 30: Another strawman caricature. >> Christians, who have an extensive body of traditional dogma>> 31: Loaded language, and a prejudicial inference that Christians are irrational, ahead of actually seriously engaging issues on merits. >> which they like to reassure themselves is true and consistent, like to think also that everybody has something like this.>> 32: Further strawman. >> Religions are “rationally reconstructed” as sets of dogma by the Christian tradition (e.g., when doing anthropology by missionary) when in fact there is no dogma at all, just stories, rituals, and ways of life.>> 33: The conflation of religion and worldview is again resorted to. In likely context, animist worldviews are expressed in "stories, rituals, and ways of life" and can profitably be analysed in worldviews terms by scholars, even those who happen to be Christian Linguists, Anthropologists and even -- shudder -- missinaries. He is impugning serious scholarship without fairly assessing it, starting with playing games with the worldview concept. >> The idea that one has a worldview by necessity is one that is made by analogy with a false view of themselves.>> 34: Hyperskeptical dismissiveness while failing to fairly address what a worldview is and why we have such. >> The worldview tradition comes out of the propositional view of beliefs that ultimately found its best expression in Wittgenstein: When two Principles really do meet which cannot be reconciled, then each man calls the other a fool and a heretic. On Certainty, §611 If a Lion could talk, we could not understand him. Philosophical Investigations, p190>> 35: What is a proposition? A truth claim often expressed as a sentence. So, if one believes things about reality s/he asserts truth claims or implies such. A fair summary can be made and a summary of a worldview can be developed. 36: We are actually beginning to see here an emergent post-/ultra- modernist irrationalism. >> The lion comment is understood as being based on meaning as a “form of life” (Lebensform): lions have a form of life that is different to us and so the meaning of their utterances would be opaque. Likewise, the principles (Prinzipe) are basic, fundamental, giving meaning to the belief system of their holders in ways that are ultimately equivalent and between which one cannot decide – you either hold the Prinzipe or not.>> 37: He has some background, so he has no excuse for behaving like this. >> I think this is a fundamental error, on Wittgenstein’s part as much as that of anyone else who holds to this Weltanschauung mythology.>> 38: He switches to German, then dismisses worldviews in general by his chosen chief exemplar, as mythology. Neat way to evade substance. >> If a lion could talk we’d understand quite a lot – because we share a form of life (we have an evolutionarily related biology, for a start), and two principles of human intellect also share forms of life – that of being human biologically and that of a shared history if there is one. And that shared nature means we can evaluate one or both for coherence, sense and reliability.>> 39: He here shows that he understands there is enough in common to do cross cultural worldviews analysis. >> Some views are just not amenable to a good life. I think Christianity is one,>> 40: His bigotry surfaces explicitly. >> and not because I have some well-worked alternative I’d like to sell you, but because I can learn from the past and make inferences, and so can you.>> 41: He hides his alternative. >> Beliefs are not abstract sets of propositions. Or rather, some are, but not all of them. We have malformed, half formed and underinterpreted ideas all the time, but that doesn’t give us a conceptual scheme. In this regard I am with Donald Davidson’s attack on the very idea.>> 42: More strawmen. No one has seriously held that we have full understanding or articulation of individual beliefs much less our personal or cultural collection. >> So to my Christian audience I say, do not commit either the privative fallacy or the Weltanschauung mistake.>> 43: A strawman fallacy-laced dismissal >>If you think you can evade my and others criticisms by assigning some faux ideology to us in virtue of us not adopting your own preferred set of absolutes, you are greatly mistaken,>> 43: Ducking admission of his own worldview >> and building a nice strawman to knock over. >> 44: Confession by projection. He knows what he just did. KFkairosfocus
April 23, 2021
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Jerry asks, "But why do they hold to a certain worldview? " A major reason is that people are brought up to believe in certain metaphysical propositions which are part of the conceptual glue that helps hold the society together. They don't believe because of empirical evidence but because of the emotional bonds engendered among common believers. This is human nature: I'm not denigrating it, but I'm pointed out the difference between matters of empirical evidence, which can be consensually confirmed, and matters lacking empirical evidence but which are created and strengthened by mutual affirmation. Since a great deal of what is important to us can't in fact be empirically confirmed, being about such things as values, emotions, aesthetic judgments, etc., as well as unascertainable metaphysical questions, such communal affirmations are a critical part of both an individual's psychology and their communities structure. Note: I got the message. Notice that I didn't use the word "inf%*#&te" once in this post.Viola Lee
April 23, 2021
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Wilkins is well respected in one of the online worlds I hang out in.
I believe Wilkins believes in naturalized evolution. If so that would make his thoughts on other things suspect since they may be based on erroneous opinions he holds about the world. It may not be so since several scientists also believe in naturalized evolution but their thinking is sound on other areas of science. Just as YEC’s can make excellent doctors.jerry
April 23, 2021
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