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Fun with the hyperreal numbers (and with the idea of an infinite actual past)

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The hyperreals are an extension of the real number line that brings to bear a reciprocal relationship between the very large and the very small. By so introducing extensions to the real number continuum, it forms a base for an infinitesimals approach to the calculus and makes sense of a lot of the tricks used by early pioneers of Calculus from Leibniz and Newton to Euler and beyond. (Though, it is clear in retrospect that they missed a lot of the pathologies that are now part of the far more cautious approaches of today.)

And yes, here is a case where Wikipedia does some good (likely, in a context where there are few basement trolls capable of making a mess):

Let’s zoom in on the graphic, which illustrates the “hyperreal microscope” of *R:

Let us note the definitional relationship between the infinitesimal and the hyper-large:

1/ε  =  ω/1

Where also, a common principle used is that ε is so small that ε^2 = 0. Where, to see what that is suggesting consider that (1/10)^2 = 1/100, and (1/10^50)^2 = (1/10^100), i.e. squaring drastically reduces the scale of a very small number.

This is all quite interesting, and has been used to rehabilitate some of Euler’s work, e.g. here.

(This is also quite relevant to some of the “Math tricks” used by Physicists and Engineers. The reference to the hyperreals may be a way to rehabilitate some seemingly dubious tricks.)

The principle that ω is a number greater than any finite sum 1 + 1 + 1 + . . . + 1 implies that it is of order type at least comparable to the first transfinite ordinal. The inclusion of the further numbers such as ω/2 indicates a reference to the surreals, and something like root-7 times ω indicates an onward transfinite continuum. I do not at this juncture specifically identify this ω with the familiar first transfinite. (Perhaps someone cares to clarify?)

So, we may at least highlight the surreals, where the vertical bars indicate continua — note the place for “infinitesimals”:

All of this is interesting in itself, as numbers are the tools of ever so much analysis and we here enrich appreciation of our favourite tool-box. (I confess, this weekend was more spent with dynamic-stochastic general equilibria, linked rational expectations, questions on modern theories of growth and human capital, etc. All, with Garrison’s Austrian approach to macroeconomics lurking, and blending in issues of saturation and stagnation at points along the PPF as well as what happens to shocked economies with low investor confidence . . . as in, 20+ years on from devastating volcanic eruptions. This stuff was the oh, what about light exploration as a relief.)

But all of this converges on something which has come up for strong, sustained exchanges several times here at UD. Namely, the suggestion of an actual infinite causal-temporal past of the [wider?] cosmos. For, if ω is such that no finite succession from 0, 1, 2 via 1 + 1 + 1 . . . + 1 can reach it, then counting down — notice, the ladder-like succession of steps (and how the surreals extend this to construct continua and to go into transfinite ordinals) — from it in finite succession [or by symmetry counting algebraically upwards from – ω] may reach to something like ω/2 [or – ω/2] but it will be futile for getting to a finite reach of a zero-point.

In short, we can see here a reason to hold that there was no actually transfinite causal-temporal succession of states that have managed to reach the present. Nor will it do to posit that at any given past time p that can finitely succeed to now, infinity past was already traversed. That begs the question of HOW.

This also surfaces a logic of being point.

Namely, that non-being has no causal powers, so that if ever there were utter nothing, such would have forever obtained. Thus also, circular causation is forbidden as this would imply that the not yet existent acted as a cause. Thus, we either have an infinite succession of contingent beings as the world-root or else there is a necessary being at world root. That is, an entity such that it is utterly unlike a fire, which has several required external, enabling “on/off” causal factors for it to begin or be sustained:

Where this goes, is that a necessary being is framework for any possible world to exist. So, in any world, it would be. It neither began nor can it cease from being. For instance, in reality we may consider a world W, which must have a distinct identity. So, too, we may consider some distinct thing in W, A that contributes to its identity. Then, we may look at W = {A|~A}. This shows two unities, i.e. two-ness. No world is possible without two-ness, and beyond, the panoply of numbers.

This is what gives bite to Berlinsky’s remark that was just raised here at UD:

>>There is no argument against religion that is not also an argument against mathematics . . . .

Mathematicians are capable of grasping a world of objects that lies beyond space and time ….

… Come again …

DB: No need to come again: I got to where I was going the first time. The number four, after all, did not come into existence at a particular time, and it is not going to go out of existence at another time. It is neither here nor there. Nonetheless we are in some sense able to grasp the number by a faculty of our minds. Mathematical intuition is utterly mysterious. So for that matter is the fact that mathematical objects such as a Lie Group or a differentiable manifold have the power to interact with elementary particles or accelerating forces. But these are precisely the claims that theologians have always made as well – that human beings are capable by an exercise of their devotional abilities to come to some understanding of the deity; and the deity, although beyond space and time, is capable of interacting with material objects.

… And this is something that you, a secular Jew, believe? …

DB: What a question! . . .  I have no religious convictions and no religious beliefs. What I do believe is that theology is no more an impossible achievement than mathematics. The same rational standards apply. Does the system make sense; does it explain something? Are there deep principles at work. Is it productive? >>

So, now, we see from the hyperreals augmented by ideas of causal-temporal succession, that it is hard to defend the notion of a transfinite actual past of contingent beings leading up to now. This points to there being an actual beginning of the world and that this traces to a finitely remote necessary being world root.

That’s enough for a UD Sunday reflection! END

PS: As it is being claimed or implied that no serious thinker thinks like that, I add a clip, just for record:

Comments
DS, I think we can all agree that for a past time p to be the actual past, it had to have once been the present but gave rise to successive stages down to now. Now, the core issue is what it means for the causal-temporal past in toto to have been transfinite. Where, as we have addressed finite stages, counting stages backwards or forwards necessarily implies accumulating duration. In that context, to assert or imply that for any actual past stage p, the cumulative time down to the present will be finite, also that prior to p there was an already completed further past that is infinite is to state a conclusion that requires warrant. I suggest, that warrant will not be adequate. First, an actually infinite past implies completion of an infinite succession of stages that were once the present but have now been succeeded. Thus, some stages of the actual past, per this claim, must be transfinitely remote. Let q be one such stage, per the argument. We then face the implication of stepwise, finite stage succession that spans a transfinite gap. That is not possible, stepwise advance is not powerful enough of either a mathematical or a physical operation to do that. Math, being taken as the logic of structure and quantity. What we can trivially warrant is that if any past stage p as discussed is finitely removed in steps, it is also finitely removed in duration. Bridging to p from some q is likewise challenged by the endless span. And if one instead asserts there was no q, all stages are at finite remove then that directly leads to the conclusion: a finite causal-temporal past. This puts the immediate questions on the table. KFkairosfocus
February 18, 2018
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Interestingly, the transfinite numbers actually *remove* a lot of the paradoxes associated with actualized infinities, including those of the remote past (though not all of them, such as the one related here). Prior to Cantor, the concepts of ordinality and cardinality were combined, so that every omega (w) wound up being the same, leading to contradictions. By distinguishing between ordinal and cardinal numbers, we can have *different* infinities within the same cardinality. However, the ordinals are essentially arrangement-dependent. The way I like to think about it is to think about a darts target, but instead of a circle, they are infinitely stretched bands. The center is the thinnest, and the other ones are wider. There are actually the same *quantity* of points in each line, but the thinner ones are harder to hit. Thus, the particular transfinite ordinal is based on relative ease of throwing a dart and hitting a particular band. To my mind w isn't so much of a number, as a unit. It's a starting point for thinking about transfinity. Thus, the transfinites are relative to one another, not absolute (i.e., there is not a "first" transfinite number). w is just kind of an arbitrary yardstick for consideration of them.johnnyb
February 18, 2018
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johnnyb, He does indeed argue against an infinite past, but he does not assume that an infinite past entails the existence of these "ω-points" infinitely remote from the present.daveS
February 18, 2018
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"That’s fine that you find it questionable, but that is unquestionably what people such as WLC and David Snoke are talking about" I was under the impression that WLC was against the infinite past, and used a near-identical argument as KF to argue against it.johnnyb
February 18, 2018
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KF, It probably isn't worthwhile debating the meaning of "beg the question" much further, but I will clip this from wikipedia:
To beg the question is to assume the truth of the conclusion of an argument in the premises in order for the conclusion to follow.
The proposal in question is not an argument, so it's literally impossible for it to 'beg the question'. Continuing:
Many modern English speakers use beg the question to mean "bear the question", "suggest the question," "raise the question", "invite the question", "evade the question", or even "ignore the question", and follow that phrase with the question, for example: "I weigh 120 kg and have severely clogged arteries, which begs the question: why have I not started exercising?" In philosophical, logical, grammatical, and legal contexts, some commenters believe that such usage is mistaken, or at best, unclear.
Back to the post, and the substantial matter:
I also find the notion of a transfinite actual past with only finitely remote past moments or stages, questionable.
That's fine that you find it questionable, but that is unquestionably what people such as WLC and David Snoke are talking about, so I suggest we address that issue and set the ωs aside.daveS
February 18, 2018
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DS, indeed any finite segment of the line has continuity cardinality and in the last discussion I noted how the counting numbers have duals per 1/n as a dust in [0,1], mostly near 0. Yes, the idea of a continuum begins to look stranger and stranger the more closely you look at it -- an infinitely dense set of points constituting a line such that a cut at a given point entails no gap looking on either side. Going on, if there were an infinite actual past, then that means that every point along that past -- I usually count in finite stages had to have once been now then was succeeded, down to now. That is the reason I have consistently rejected the proposal that at any p as described, the past infinite traverse was already done. And yes, that proposal begs the question at stake. I also find the notion of a transfinite actual past with only finitely remote past moments or stages, questionable. Going back to the math side, I find the hyperreal line interesting in and of itself. KFkairosfocus
February 18, 2018
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KF, For me, one of the most interesting things about 'the' hyperreal numbers is that they have the same cardinality as the reals.
For, if ω is such that no finite succession from 0, 1, 2 via 1 + 1 + 1 . . . + 1 can reach it, then counting down — notice, the ladder-like succession of steps (and how the surreals extend this to construct continua and to go into transfinite ordinals) — from it in finite succession [or by symmetry counting algebraically upwards from – ?] may reach to something like ω/2 [or – ω/2] but it will be futile for getting to a finite reach of a zero-point.
Certainly this is true---you cannot count up from 0 to ω in finitely many steps, nor can you count down from ω to 0 in finitely many steps. In other words, if you start at 0 (ω) and count up (down), you will not reach ω (0) at any point in the future. I believe that if Ben Waters, William Lane Craig, or David Snoke were to enter the conversation, the first thing they would ask is "What is this ω doing in this discussion? There is no such time coordinate in our conception of infinite past".* Of course I know what your response will be (and my response to your response, etc.)
Nor will it do to posit that at any given past time p that can finitely succeed to now, infinity past was already traversed. That begs the question of HOW.
It obviously leads to the question of 'how', but does not beg any questions. *Although some (including Quentin Smith, IIRC) have considered various models of time with exotic topologies.daveS
February 18, 2018
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Sunday reflections: Fun with the hyperreal numbers -- implications for the origin of the world in a finitely remote necessary being world-root and a side-light on Berlinsky's point that "There is no argument against religion that is not also an argument against mathematics." KFkairosfocus
February 18, 2018
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