New Scientist vs. William Lane Craig on infinity explanations

Or vice versa: our universe, which is thought to have beginning, might exist forever, even though in a purely static state at some point. Geometrically we have rays as well as lines. Aleta

Axel, Well, I don't know of any reason why an infinite past would entail an infinite future. It seems conceivable to me that the universe could have an infinite past, yet cease to exist tomorrow, for example. daveS

DaveS, would not an infinite past predicate an infinite future.... both including the present : an infinite continuum of all tree. Infinity is indivisible. Axel

News: "Mapou has been banned." News, thank you. Even though I do not believe in ID, people like Mapou and Joe (Virgil) do more damage to your side of the argument than to mine. But I much prefer to win an argument based on the evidence than to win on a technicality. Indiana Effigy

Please feel free to continue the discussion, folks. Absent unacceptable language, we are happy to host it. News

Mapou has been banned. News

I would rather be banned from UD forever than apologize to a bunch of cretinous dirt worshippers. They owe me an apology for preaching their religion in our schools, which is against the Constitution. They owe me an apology for bullying non-atheists, not only in the education system but in the mainstream media and the government. They can all kiss my asteroid. I may apologise to them but only AFTER they apologize to me. Until then, they are just tree-dwelling primitives, cretinous members of the Church of the Flying Dirt Monster. Ban away. ahahaha...AHAHAHA...ahahaha... Mapou

Although this thread might be otherwise dead, shutting off comments rather than moderating the offender (in this case, Mapou) can unfairly prevent others from continuing the discussion. A general rule in the schools I have taught in has always been that it is better to deal with individual misbehavior rather than punish the whole class for the transgressions of a few. Aleta

News #!01

Mapou at 43 and following, settle down. Now. Whatever your case is, you are not making it. Take a break. I think you should apologize for some of your language above.

Thanks. You should note that Mapou has said that he doesn't care if the site moderators ban him. It's not just us evos he is disrespecting. ellazimm

Mapou at 43 and following, settle down. Now. Whatever your case is, you are not making it. Take a break. I think you should apologize for some of your language above. Even if you are correct, there is no excuse for such language. More of this, and I am shutting off the comments. News

Speak for yourself.

Says the dirt worshipper who's gonna live forever. Not. Whether or not you know it, you're on death row, amigo. Just like pigs and cockroaches. And rats, too. Live with it. Mapou

Mapou: "Effigy, I got news for you. We are all rats in cages and we are all trying to escape. Who’s gonna let us out? Who’s gonna set us free?" Speak for yourself. Indiana Effigy

Effigy, I got news for you. We are all rats in cages and we are all trying to escape. Who's gonna let us out? Who's gonna set us free? Mapou

Mapou: "“The world is a vampire. In spite of my rage, I’m still just a rat in a cage.” It is nice to see that you are so self aware. Indiana Effigy

Correction @95: “The world is a vampire. In spite of my rage, I’m still just a rat in a cage.” Mapou

Gaulin @94, Well, thanks for adding some entertainment into the mix. I am a Smashing Pumpkins fan. Cherub Rock is great. Of course, their "Bullet with Butterfly Wings" was their best ever. "The world is a vampire. In spite of my rage, I'm still just a rage in a cage." Awesome lyrics. Mapou

The Smashing Pumpkins - Cherub Rock https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q-KE9lvU810 Lyrics: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f5K3SqbrXnY GaryGaulin

Aleta: Cherubim are the key to particle physics!

Think about it... This idea has much more going for it than "the spontaneous rearrangement of matter on a rocky, barren, planet into human brains and spaceships and jet airplanes and nuclear power plants and libraries full of science texts and novels, and super computers running partial differential equation solving software." Origenes

All questions will be answered in due time. Now is not the time and UD is not the place. I'll just make a few additional comments and I'll be out of this thread. 1. I figured these things out because I am a bona fide nut. 2. For more on the particle hypothesis (deciphered from metaphors in the books of Ezekiel, Revelation and Isaiah), read The Cherubim Model of Elementary Particles. I started work on it way back in the 1990s. Caveat: it's still an evolving hypothesis but I stopped all work on it several years ago because it scared the hell out of me. But I'm sure I will get back to it again soon. (just saying, take it or leave it) 3. I can't say more about the absolute axes of the universe at this time other than this: The East-facing Sphinx (the lion is one of the 4 faces of elementary particles) next to the great pyramid of Giza in Egypt has something to do with it. The riddle of the Sphinx and all that. ahahaha... 4. I will never publish any of my research in so-called peer-reviewed journals. I call them ARJs (arse-review journals). The world is my peers and my blog is my journal. I spit on mainstream science and its gutless politics. 5. In a couple of months or so, I will be looking for integrated circuit (processor) engineers and software (graphical language and user interface design) engineers. The project has to do with completely reinventing the computer as we know it, including the way we program it. The old Von Neumann architecture is woefully inadequate (too unwieldy, too slow, too unreliable and way too energy inefficient) for the coming AI revolution. The plan is to eliminate the central processing unit and, of course, the Von Neumann bottleneck, altogether. Think "pulse-driven parallel computing and neural networks." That is all. Mapou

Mapou

Derision coming from a dirt worshipper is a badge of honor. Some force is driving you now but you have no idea why you’re becoming obsessed, do you?

I'm not obsessed; you're a very small part of my day. One I'm happy to give up. I just don't like bullies.

How’s the weather in London, BTW? Seen strange creatures walking about lately?

I live a long ways away from London actually. That's another lose for you.

Actually, my cherubim hypothesis led me to discover that the electron is not an elementary particle, as claimed by the Standard Model, but actually consists of 4 sub-particles, each with 1/4 charge. I knew this long before evidence for these sub-electric particles started showing up in experiments in 2012.

And where have you elucidated this? Did you get some physicists to look it over and critique it? Did you get it published? Can you show us an explanation of your reasoning?

Of course, the physics community, being the gutless political animal that it is, cannot allow its claim that the electron is an elementary particle to be contradicted. So they decided to call the constituent particles of the electron, “quasiparticles”. Physics through labeling.

On this issue I see your point but that's how science works. It takes time for the paradigm to shift. But you have to have data and experimental results to prove your point.

You dirt worshippers will defecate on yourselves when the full revelation of scriptural science is revealed. Electrons are just a small part of it. Get ready for “crackpot science” like unlimited free energy (we are swimming in it; it’s all around us), extremely fast transportation and human-level artificial intelligence. In your lifetimes.

Sounds good to me. I'd love to have a robot maid whose batteries I didn't have to charge. Sign me up.

One more thing that I discovered while studying the cherubim metaphors in the book of Ezekiel is that the electric charge that surrounds an electron is not just highly spherical (wheels within wheels) but moves instantaneously with the electron. This is true regardless of how far away the charge is measured from the electron.

And you got that from reading the Bible? How come it is then that no one else gleaned that information in the last 1500 years? Seriously, why is it that you are especially gifted to see the truth behind the veil? AND, why was the information encoded in the first place? Why didn't the almighty just spell it all out because he loves all humans and wants them to be happy and healthy? If he invented the 'system' why hide the key for so long and allow all that pain and suffering?

Also, all particles have faces (directions) that are absolute. That is to say, the universe has absolute directions (axes). Just saying.

How can you establish those absolute axis? Where do they 'point'?

Finally, far from being embarrassed on account of my Biblical research, as ellazimm (the dirt worshipper) is apparently counting on, I rely on it for all my scientific knowledge, especially my understanding of the brain and intelligence.

Fine, I'm glad you're proud of your stance. One of my absolute best friends is a strong Christian and we have had several conversations about what 'god' is about. And, to be honest, I find that her best arguments are hard to dispute. I have discovered what true faith entails. And I find that enlightening and inspiring.

PS. To interested Christian hardware/software engineers who frequent these pages, I will be hiring a team of engineers in the not too distant future for a special project. Keep your eyes open for an announcement on my website.

I think you'll need a better job description than that. ellazimm

One more thing that I discovered while studying the cherubim metaphors in the book of Ezekiel is that the electric charge that surrounds an electron is not just highly spherical (wheels within wheels) but moves instantaneously with the electron. This is true regardless of how far away the charge is measured from the electron. Also, all particles have faces (directions) that are absolute. That is to say, the universe has absolute directions (axes). Just saying. Finally, far from being embarrassed on account of my Biblical research, as ellazimm (the dirt worshipper) is apparently counting on, I rely on it for all my scientific knowledge, especially my understanding of the brain and intelligence. PS. To interested Christian hardware/software engineers who frequent these pages, I will be hiring a team of engineers in the not too distant future for a special project. Keep your eyes open for an announcement on my website. Mapou

Actually, my cherubim hypothesis led me to discover that the electron is not an elementary particle, as claimed by the Standard Model, but actually consists of 4 sub-particles, each with 1/4 charge. I knew this long before evidence for these sub-electric particles started showing up in experiments in 2012. Of course, the physics community, being the gutless political animal that it is, cannot allow its claim that the electron is an elementary particle to be contradicted. So they decided to call the constituent particles of the electron, "quasiparticles". Physics through labeling. You dirt worshippers will defecate on yourselves when the full revelation of scriptural science is revealed. Electrons are just a small part of it. Get ready for "crackpot science" like unlimited free energy (we are swimming in it; it's all around us), extremely fast transportation and human-level artificial intelligence. In your lifetimes. And none of it is coming from dirt worshippers. LOL Mapou

Wow - good research. Cherubim are the key to particle physics! Aleta

Derision coming from a dirt worshipper is a badge of honor. Some force is driving you now but you have no idea why you're becoming obsessed, do you? How's the weather in London, BTW? Seen strange creatures walking about lately? LOL Mapou

Mapou #83

You’re on a mission, now. Aren’t you? A dirt worshipper has a new obsession. How interesting? Not.

Oh dear, having trouble taking some derision when you sling at anyone who disagrees with you? Not being a crybaby are we? ellazimm

Mapou Just found another fascinating passage from rebelscience.org/Seraphim/Seraphim.htm

In my hypothesis, the electrostatic field of a charged particle (e.g., the electron) is the result of interactions caused by the motion of the particle in the fourth dimension. The field consists of a huge number of seraphim being jettisoned from the points of interaction in the lattice. The property that is responsible for the fourth dimensional (note 6) motion of a particle is its feet. Note that there are two wings associated with a seraph's feet and that, even though all seraphim have feet, they do not all have similar faces.

Note 6:

6. I have reasons to believe that the fourth dimension is associated with the eagle.

The eagle comes from a passage in Revelations by the way. Oh, note 5 is great!

5. This is true even for massive particles. At rest, a massive particle has no kinetic energy. Its entire energy is contained in its body (mass energy). As it moves, part of its mass energy is converted into kinetic energy (wings). The average speed of a massive particle is less than c as long as it has mass energy. It reaches c when its entire mass energy is converted into kinetic energy. This will be explained further in the coming page on Cherubim.

Sadly it looks like you've not got around to that page on Cherubim. ellazimm

Mapou Sorry, sorry, I couldn't pass up this paragraph . . .

Cherubim are described in the old testament book of Ezekiel. The prophet receives a strange vision of four creatures, each having four faces, four wings, human hands and calf's feet. In addition, he describes an enormous flying wheel that had the appearance of a wheel within a wheel. There is reason to believe that Ezekiel's cherubim are related to the seraphim described in the books of Isaiah and Revelation because Ezekiel also mentions a throne and an immense sea of glass. There is a strong similarity between cherubim and seraphim. They all have wings, faces, feet and are full of eyes. The differences are equally striking. For example, cherubim have two attributes that seraphim lack: bodies and hands. And while a seraph has one face and six wings, a cherub has four faces and four wings. My current hypothesis is that the four cherubim of Ezekiel symbolize an ideal composite particle, possibly an angelic (i.e., alien) particle. The known subatomic particles (e.g., neutrons, protons, electrons, etc...) of quantum physics can be described as either single cherub or various combinations thereof. I am preparing a special page on cherubim. More to come...

And this paragraph further down the page shows your understanding of inertia.

All current ground, sea, air and space transportation systems will become obsolete. This means there will no longer be a need for things like combustion engines, wheels, tires, rockets, railroads, transmissions, brakes, propellers, sails, airports, paved roads, highways, bridges, traffic signals, etc... As a result, transportation related industries will have to undergo a severe transformation in order to adjust to the new reality. Future vehicles will go almost anywhere with no visible means of propulsion and they will make no sound as they move. They will be able to do so at extremely high speeds. Even right angle turns will be negotiated at high speeds. Inertial effects will not be felt because every atom or particle that comprises a vehicle and its cargo will undergo equal acceleration. This means that moving vehicles will be able to come to a full stop within a fraction of a second without incurring any damage. City dwellers will use small personal devices (flying chairs?) to float around effortlessly. Normal walking will no longer be a necessity.

(Sorry for reproducing the entire paragraph, I didn't want to be accused of taking anything out of context.) ellazimm

You're on a mission, now. Aren't you? A dirt worshipper has a new obsession. How interesting? Not. Mapou

Mapou This is very interesting; from your 'agenda'.

My plan is to demonstrate over the coming months and years that, not only is it false that Biblical teachings are anti-science, but that the most revolutionary scientific advances in this century will come straight from the Bible.

And this . . .

Artificial intelligence is just the tip of the Biblical iceberg because, as it turns out, the Bible has many more secrets hidden behind clever metaphors. The Biblical symbolism related to the fundamental principles and the underlying structure of the physical universe will turn out to be just as amazing and upsetting as the advent of intelligent machines, if not more so.

Now that page is copyright 2006 so you may have changed your mind by now. From rebelscience.org/Seraphim/Physics.htm#Causal

Most scientists consider the Bible to be a collection of fables and superstitions. Even Christians and Jews would be astonished to learn that the Bible contains precise and revolutionary secrets pertaining to science. One reason for this mindset is that the Bible goes to great lengths to hide its scientific truths through the use of mysterious symbols and metaphors. Worse, the secrets are not recorded in a single book, nor were they written down by a single author. Part of a concept may be given in one book while the rest is found in another book written centuries later. As many of my readers already know, I am already well on the way to decoding the symbolic passages that describe the organization and operation of the brain. These will lead to the construction of highly intelligent robots and artificial brains. The introduction of human-level (and beyond) artificial intelligence in the world will be revolutionary in its own right but, as I explain in these pages, there are aspects of the underlying physical universe that, should they become known to us, would be equally revolutionary. These things are described in the Bible, more specifically, in the books of Isaiah, Ezekiel and Revelation.

Pure poetry. How's that work coming by the way? That page is copyright 2007 so progress must be pretty slooooooooooooooooow. ellazimm

Mapou Gotta love this from your own website:

There is a foolproof way to spot a voodoo scientist. If a scientist claims to have a theory about a natural phenomenon but is unable to explain the theory in a simple language that the average layman can understand, one can be absolutely certain that he is as clueless about the nature of the phenomenon in question as anybody else.

Now who does that remind you of . . . someone who pontificates a lot but can't explain anything . . . give up? ellazimm