Today is 9-11-01 + 18 years, let us remember

F/N: To restore some measure of decorum to this thread, I clip from above:

I side with firemen who went into the Towers even as civilians were being shepherded out. I side, with our late, ex-FDNY Fire Chief, whose son (a fireman walking in his father’s footsteps) perished in those towers that day as Montserrat’s first casualty in the War against Global Terrorism. I side with war hero Rick Rescorla, who fought to save those in his care, willing to keep going back into the teeth of danger again and again. I side with passengers willing to try to stop a hijacking in progress. I side with fighter pilots flying scrambled jets that due to ill-advised regulations were unarmed, and could only be used to ram a hijacked airliner: death is light as a feather but duty as heavy as a mountain. I side with a President who gave the agonised order, shoot down any further airliners turned into hostage-crammed suicide bombing cruise missiles (demonically turning our commitment to humanity and respect for innocent life and liberty into weapons meant to paralyse us in the face of rising evil). I side, with seamen manning Aircraft Carriers surging out to sea at full war speed heading for counterstrike points (as in, read between the lines of what was coming out in the news that terrible day). Where, the further underlying thesis is, that: historically, maritime powers with Christian heritage have in them dynamics of governance, political economy and macro-economic forces that on average favour liberty.

Whose side are you on? KF kairosfocus

BB, we all know that you are a sock puppet for a notorious stable of trolls. In that context, I am quite confident that you full well know the relevant information dug up in the zealous effort to cyberstalk me and stalk me on the ground out to second and third degree relatives; directly parallel, of course to what has been done to others who contribute here at UD. I am particularly incensed over what was done to a decent lady and Grandmother. Your pretence otherwise moves us not one whit. What does move us is your attitude to a thread honouring 3,000 victims of hostage-taking based mass murder on the 18th anniversary of the treacherous attacks [and as I have done year by year at UD and will continue to do every year on the anniversary, so help me God]. That, stands revealed in your derailing attempts above. Would you act like that at a memorial service attended by survivors and families of the murdered? I only hope you have enough substance left in your chest to feel thoroughly ashamed of yourself. KF kairosfocus

Brother Brian:

I accept that I, as a man, can’t dictate what a woman does with her body.

And yet men arrest women for prostitution, drug use and many other scenarios where women are using their bodies. It is obviously short-sighted to exclude men from having reproductive rights. Brian must be a male feminist... ET

Brother Brian:

I know they have nothing of value to listen to.

And everyone knows that Brian doesn't have anything of value to listen to. ET

. The dishonesty and hypocrisy are noted. ...carry on Upright BiPed

UB, I’m not sure what you are talking about. Probably my fault. But what I am talking about is teaching children about basic biology, sex, reproduction, sexual desires, urges, consent, contraception, etc. Separate from the cultural and religious phobias about sex. Brother Brian

I accept that people (and children) are entitled to be given accurate information.

err ... just a quick aside ... in the 1940's it was famously predicted that a very distinct type of organization was the necessary physical condition of evolution and autonomous self-replication. It was predicted by a scientist who is almost universally considered to be one of the greatest intellects of the century. At the core of this irreducible organization was a symbol system (i.e. a coding language) and its necessary set of interpretive constraints. This prediction was later wholly confirmed by experiment. This is all well-recorded history, of course. Thus, if a textbook publisher wanted to include this historical fact (i.e. the material details of the system and its subsequent confirmation) in their biology curricula - perhaps even as context surrounding the mystery of OoL - you would have no objection to including that material in the textbook? And would you also have no objection to including the fact that no dynamic explanation of the system have ever been demonstrated in the more-than-half-century since the discovery, despite the obvious interest and concerted effort in doing so? Upright BiPed

KF, I have a serious question for you. You are obviously a devout Christian, and I am fine with this. My question is only semi-hypothetical because I was presented with this very scenario. Let’s presume you have two daughters. In my case they are identical twins. What would be your preference for them? 1) Marry a Christian. 2) Marry a Jew. 3) Marry a Muslim. The reason I ask is because we experienced 2 and 3. Off the record, I will say that Jews know how to celebrate a wedding. Brother Brian

KF

BB, your comment inadvertently speaks for itself; starting with basic disrespect as you full well know that I am a Caribbean person of tricontinental ancestry.

Your ego precedes you. I have no idea what your ancestry is. And, frankly, I don’t care.

Notice, here, that Commonwealth armed forces included many volunteers from colonies in both world wars, literally from India to the West Indies.

And they also included conscripted “volunteers”. But don’t underestimate the promise of three squares a day to many of these indigenous peoples. There is a reason why many of the “volunteers” came from the poorest of society.

I side with firemen who went into the Towers even as civilians were being shepherded out.

As do I. They, and all the other first responders deserve our utmost respect. But I also side with the small population of Gander Newfoundland who took thousands of American citizens into their houses, without question or demands, because their planes were forced to land in this WWII transit point.

Your problem is...

Sorry, but when anyone starts a sentence with “your problem is”, I know they have nothing of value to listen to. I will but my moral values (atheist though they may be) up against yours any day, and twice on Tuesday. The difference between you and I is that I don’t pre-judge based on religion or world view. I accept that homosexuals are entitled to the benefits that I, as a heterosexual, have. I accept that I, as a man, can’t dictate what a woman does with her body. I accept that a Jew or Muslim is entitled to worship as they see fit as long as they don’t break any laws (Christians, as well). I accept that people (and children) are entitled to be given accurate information. I accept that my sexual mores should not be imposed on others, as long as those involved are of consenting age. I accept that people shouldn’t be allowed to use “freedom of religion” to discriminate against others. Brother Brian

EMH, we owe a debt of honour. Period. That's all we really need to know; and if someone finds remembering the treacherous murder of 3,000 people by hostage-takers offensive, that says a lot about the offended and none of it good. Yes, there are many decent, ordinary Muslims etc but there are also people out there of any faith or no faith who are capable of or can be misled into demonic evil. That was a day of such evil, rampant and destructive. It was also a day of honour, which we should all respect. KF kairosfocus

I will also note that to their shame the Peaceful Science, Biologos, and TSZ forums have zero mention of 9-11 yesterday, even though their very existence is thanks to the forces of freedom that were sacrificed on that day. We are living in an age of 'men without chests' as CS Lewis put it. EricMH

Very well put KF. Also, very interesting ties to the ancient battle of Islam with those around it. Unfortunately, I am seeing a greater and greater forgetfulness, or even unwillingness to recall 9-11. There is a fear of (the horror!) offending someone, perhaps offending our very enemies who attacked us. At an even deeper level, I believe the real motivation is cowardice, the same cowardice that motivated Chamberlain to make a truce with Hitler and declare 'peace in our times.' It is like the scripture where all around they shall declare 'peace, peace' yet there is no peace. At work, I made a short post in our chat channel with just the words "Never forget." and a 9-11 logo. For that, one coworker privately chastised me. And we are working only a few miles from the Pentagon. EricMH

BB, your comment inadvertently speaks for itself; starting with basic disrespect as you full well know that I am a Caribbean person of tricontinental ancestry. In that context, I am aware of the sins as well as the blessings of the heritage of Christendom. And with an understanding of that balance, I take the same stance as say the Tuskegee Airmen of WW2: I side with the imperfect but reformable against the utterly, ruinously chaotic and tyrannical. Notice, here, that Commonwealth armed forces included many volunteers from colonies in both world wars, literally from India to the West Indies. For all its sins and crimes, the British Empire was on the whole a progressive force, which is why there is a Commonwealth with 57 members today, and were we to allow in non-historic partners, it would grow; BTW, the USA is in fact eligible for membership. I side with firemen who went into the Towers even as civilians were being shepherded out. I side, with our late, ex-FDNY Fire Chief, whose son (a fireman walking in his father's footsteps) perished in those towers that day as Montserrat's first casualty in the War against Global Terrorism. I side with war hero Rick Rescorla, who fought to save those in his care, willing to keep going back into the teeth of danger again and again. I side with passengers willing to try to stop a hijacking in progress. I side with fighter pilots flying scrambled jets that due to ill-advised regulations were unarmed, and could only be used to ram a hijacked airliner: death is light as a feather but duty as heavy as a mountain. I side with a President who gave the agonised order, shoot down any further airliners turned into hostage-crammed suicide bombing cruise missiles (demonically turning our commitment to humanity and respect for innocent life and liberty into weapons meant to paralyse us in the face of rising evil). I side, with seamen manning Aircraft Carriers surging out to sea at full war speed heading for counterstrike points (as in, read between the lines of what was coming out in the news that terrible day). Where, the further underlying thesis is, that: historically, maritime powers with Christian heritage have in them dynamics of governance, political economy and macro-economic forces that on average favour liberty. In that context, my assessment of early 2016 (and twice publicly presented before political and civil leaders and the general public in a Caribbean country) is proving accurate. Your problem is that you imagine that the forces of chaotic decay in our civilisation are vehicles of "progress" and use the cultural marxist fallacy of demanding perfection on pain of utter discredit [we have all read our Alinsky, thank you] to try to make the manifestly worse seem the better cause in the eyes of the manipulated. Down that path, predictably, lies shipwreck. KF kairosfocus

I wonder if the indigenous people’s throughout the world thought the same about the Euoropean/Christian invasions that resulted in death, displacement and suffering. Maybe they should have disseminated their own geostrategic challenge map. Brother Brian

I add, the Jan Sobieski story. kairosfocus

I can't believe I didn't realise today is 9-11. Well, in accord with a debt of honour, we present: Today is 9-11-01 + 18 years, let us remember kairosfocus