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Can AI become just like us?

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File:Artificial.intelligence.jpg We’ve been hearing a lot about that. From Rodney Brooks, former director of the Computer Science and Artificial Intelligence Laboratory at MIT , in “The Seven Deadly Sins of AI Predictions” at Technology Review, featuring the fourth sin:

When people hear that machine learning is making great strides in some new domain, they tend to use as a mental model the way in which a person would learn that new domain. However, machine learning is very brittle, and it requires lots of preparation by human researchers or engineers, special-purpose coding, special-purpose sets of training data, and a custom learning structure for each new problem domain. Today’s machine learning is not at all the sponge-like learning that humans engage in, making rapid progress in a new domain without having to be surgically altered or purpose-built.

Likewise, when people hear that a computer can beat the world chess champion (in 1997) or one of the world’s best Go players (in 2016), they tend to think that it is “playing” the game just as a human would. Of course, in reality those programs had no idea what a game actually was, or even that they were playing. They were also much less adaptable. When humans play a game, a small change in rules does not throw them off. Not so for AlphaGo or Deep Blue.

Suitcase words mislead people about how well machines are doing at tasks that people can do. That is partly because AI researchers—and, worse, their institutional press offices—are eager to claim progress in an instance of a suitcase concept. The important phrase here is “an instance.” That detail soon gets lost. Headlines trumpet the suitcase word, and warp the general understanding of where AI is and how close it is to accomplishing more.More.

Show this to people who are freaked out by pop science claims about AI.

See also: Silicon Valley religion: “The final end of science is the revelation of the absurd”

Comments
I’ll let you in on the reason why we cannot make machines conscious: a free rational being cannot be brought about by unfree nonrational physical processes.
Again, this doesn't make sense. If the composition of something isn't relevant to whether it can be conscious, then apparently anything can be concuss, regardless of its makeup. So. as intelligent conscious designers, why can't we make that something conscious as conscious beings? Specially, supposedly, some very high percentage of out bodies are made up of "unfree nonrational physical processes", including the synapses in our brains, right? Yet, we're conscious. So, why can we be conscious, but not a computer, regardless of being made up of "unfree nonrational physical processes"? Are you suggesting a computer could not be endowed with conscious, just like we supposedly were? Apparently the only reason computers are not conscious is because some designer didn't want them to be. Not because they are made up of "unfree nonrational physical processes", because we are as well. If not, then what's the difference? "That's just what some designer must have wanted" is a bad explanation.critical rationalist
October 15, 2017
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ID is about the generation of complex functional information in biological objects. It is not about the generation of consciousness.
So human beings exhibiting consciousness is an accident? A designer isn't a good explanation for our consciousness?
We are certainly conscious, because we can observe consciousness in ourselves. That is an empirical fact.
Are you a realist? If so, why? I'm asking because solipsism accepts everything you and I observe as external to ourselves with the one exception that these same observations are supposedly facets of one's internal self. Since solipsism predicts exactly the same empirical observations we observe, this means every discovery in technology, medicine and particle physics also “supports” solipsism. They just happen to be internal to the solipsist, rather than external. So, from a mere empirical perspective, only I know I'm conscious. Not you or anyone else. This is why empiricism is insufficient. What's scarce isn't empirical evidence, but good explanation for that evidence.
What consciousness is cannot be explained at all in terms of some configuration, however complex, of objects. At least, there is no evidence at all in that sense.
Since what it's made of or how it is organized is not relevant, anything can be made conscious? Like, say, a computer?
So, the fact that we are conscious intelligent beings means that we can design objects, like the ID designer (but somewhat less efficiently, I would say).
What would prevent us from doing so "somewhat less efficiently", other than knowing how? What's the difference? Either something is impossible because it would violate the laws of physics, or it's possible if the right knowledge is present there. There does't seem to be anything in-between.
It does not mean that we can generate consciousness.
It's unclear what you mean here, as you make it sound as if consciousness is "generated" like we "generate" electricity.
Consciousness, again, has none of the properties of complex designed things. It has completely different properties and manifestations.
ID's argument is how can something have a property if it wasn't designed to have it? Again, is it an accident?
Consciousness is necessary to design. But it is not designed.
Except, the medical community consists of conscience, intelligent beings, yet we do not have a cure for cancer. So, it seems that exhibiting the properties of conciseness and intelligence are insufficient.
You can think that the ID designer is also the source of our consciousness. But that is just something one can believe, or not believe.
So the idea that we can design AGI is something we can believe or not believe? If not, and ID doesn't say anything about the designer, then why is there a difference?
It is not, at present, a scientific issue, because we have no empirical facts about how consciousness comes into existence. We don’t even understand what it is, certainly not from a scientific point of view.
Except, consciousness is effected by material changes in our brains, such as strokes, accidents, etc. Personalities can change in very drastic and specific ways. I don't know why we should think there is some boundary at which phenomena cannot be explained, let alone conciseness is that boundary.
ID is about design in objects. It makes inferences from objective configurations that are observed in matter.
There are many empirical experiences that are mutually exclusive and cannot continue. Furthermore, no one has actually formulated a "principle of indiction" that actually gives guidance as to which will continue, in practice. So, picking one, against all others, seems arbitrary. IOW, why this 'inductive inference' over some other 'inductive inference'?
Consciousness is all another thing. It is the source of design, not the other way round.
So, why don't you start out by explaining how consciousness can actually be the source of design, then point out how Neo-dearwnism doesn't fit that description.critical rationalist
October 15, 2017
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CR: I didn’t suggest any machines are currently conscious. I asked why can’t we make them conscious …
I’ll let you in on the reason why we cannot make machines conscious: a free rational being cannot be brought about by unfree nonrational physical processes. Consciousness is not just an object amongst objects; a fact neither understood by Buddhists nor naturalists. So, I do understand where your question is coming from. You see CR, naturalism entails an ontology in which your consciousness is the consequence of physics, and thus, can only be a placeholder for a more detailed causal account in which various nonrational physical processes are the sole actors. If naturalism is true, then neither did you decide to write forum post #18, nor did you compose it. Nonrational physical processes did. You were informed of the event after the fact.Origenes
October 15, 2017
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critical rationalist: I am suggesting that the design of our body and brain, although a part of what we are as humans, is not the source of our consciousness. I am suggesting that subjective experiences cannot be explained in term od design and configuration of objects. We are intelligent designers, and therefore we can make designed objects. In no way that means that we can make conscious beings. As I already said, design is not the source of consciousness.gpuccio
October 15, 2017
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I did read #16. The question remains. Are you suggesting we were not designed to be conscious? Are we not intelligent designers?critical rationalist
October 15, 2017
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critical rationalist, You may want to read carefully what gpuccio wrote @16 before commenting further in this thread.Dionisio
October 14, 2017
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critical rationalist: Let's try to remain empirical. ID is about the generation of complex functional information in biological objects. It is not about the generation of consciousness. There is no argument at all that consciousness is a designed object. We are certainly conscious, because we can observe consciousness in ourselves. That is an empirical fact. What consciousness is cannot be explained at all in terms of some configuration, however complex, of objects. At least, there is no evidence at all in that sense. So, the fact that we are conscious intelligent beings means that we can design objects, like the ID designer (but somewhat less efficiently, I would say). It does not mean that we can generate consciousness. Consciousness, again, has none of the properties of complex designed things. It has completely different properties and manifestations. Consciousness is necessary to design. But it is not designed. You can think that the ID designer is also the source of our consciousness. But that is just something one can believe, or not believe. It is not, at present, a scientific issue, because we have no empirical facts about how consciousness comes into existence. We don't even understand what it is, certainly not from a scientific point of view. ID is about design in objects. It makes inferences from objective configurations that are observed in matter. Consciousness is all another thing. It is the source of design, not the other way round.gpuccio
October 14, 2017
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To rephrase... Is the explanation that we're intelligent, conscious agents but cannot make GAI because we don't possess the necessary knowledge? However, ID's designer is not only intelligent and conscious but also did posses that knowledge, so it could make us conscious? But that makes the difference between us and ID's designer merely a matter of the necessary knowledge being present in the case of ID's designer, but not us. We just don't know how yet. Is that what you're suggesting? Otherwise, what is the difference? Does the field of AI research not contain intelligent, conscious agents that want to create genuinely intelligent, conscious machines? Is their intent and purpose to reach that goal? If so, it seems that we should already have conscious, intelligent machines, right? But we do not. So what gives? This is the same argument I've made in the case of the medical community, which consists of intelligent agents. They exhibit intent and purpose. IOW, If it's a matter of choice and intelligence, then we should already have a cure for cancer. But we do not, right? So, why don't we?critical rationalist
October 14, 2017
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critical rationalist, What is consciousness? How does it work? How is it made?, With quantum computing? How? We humans know how to build supercomputers today and might know how to create even more powerful computers tomorrow, but that's because we have documented every detail about them, because we created them to begin with. But we did not create consciousness. We don't know how it works. Much less how to make it. Try again.Dionisio
October 14, 2017
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We are conscious beings. Machines are not conscious.
I didn't suggest any machines are currently conscious. I asked why can't we make them conscious, since we are intelligent agents. ID's designer is an intelligent agent, right? It supposedly designed us, and we're conscious. So, what's the difference between ID's designer and us? If ID's designer is a good explanation for consciousness in us, then why can't we be a good explanation for conciseness in the things we design? Are we not intelligent agents? Are we not conscious beings? If consciousness comes from consciousness, which we exhibit, and ID doesn't say anything about the designer, then what is your objection?critical rationalist
October 14, 2017
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Axel: "Can AI become just like us? Well, Pinocchio did. Though he was an unreliable source, apparently." That is really good! :)gpuccio
October 14, 2017
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critical rationalist: "Specially, why do ID proponents think we cannot create GAI? This makes totally no sense, given that we’re, well, intelligent agents. So, what gives?" We are conscious beings. Machines are not conscious. Is that difference something that "makes totally no sense", in your opinion? Do you think that consciousness has no role in cognition? Have uou ever read Penrose, or Searle, or Chalmers? Just to show that someone considers questions about consciousness as an interesting topic! Maybe you don't.gpuccio
October 14, 2017
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Machine learning is not AGI. We don't know how to program AGI yet. However, that doesn't mean we never will. What we need is a breakthrough in epistemology, not faster computers with more memory, etc. Furthermore, this represents yet another inconsistency in ID. Specially, why do ID proponents think we cannot create GAI? This makes totally no sense, given that we're, well, intelligent agents. So, what gives? Oh, that's right. Everyone knows ID's designer is actually God. Despite being rational, free, intelligent agents, we cannot create GAI.critical rationalist
October 14, 2017
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A little related self-promotion: Solving Engineering Problems Using Theologyjohnnyb
October 13, 2017
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Can AI become just like us? If so, I'm pretty sure they'll have a hard time selling darwinism over intelligent design to these guys.Origenes
October 12, 2017
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Superhuman, honorable Mung. Glad you liked it. Still not as witty as your sat-nav 'bon mot', though.Axel
October 12, 2017
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Can AI become just like us? Well, Pinocchio did. Though he was an unreliable source, apparently.
LoL. But Pinocchio wanted to become a boy. Do the machines want to become human?Mung
October 12, 2017
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Can AI become just like us? Well, Pinocchio did. Though he was an unreliable source, apparently.Axel
October 12, 2017
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If you put a bunch of gears and pulleys together in just the right configuration, does it suddenly become conscious? If you move rocks around desert, do certain configurations become conscious? If you write certain mathematical formulae on a piece of paper, do they suddenly become conscious? All of these instances are identical to claiming computers can become conscious, because each instance is Turing complete. But, don't they seem absurd? If so, then claims that computers can become conscious are also absurd.EricMH
October 11, 2017
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Can AI become just like us? Not until we know what makes us just like us. Evolution is mysterious even in this aspect... J-Mac
October 11, 2017
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Can AI become just like us? Not until we know what makes us just like us.Seversky
October 11, 2017
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Can AI become just like us? NO. Here's a very easy challenge: if the 'strong' AI folks can explain coherently and logically how their robots could eventually experience a situation like the one described in Charles Aznavour's song "Venezia sin ti", which is very common among humans, then we could discuss. Otherwise, their hogwash isn't worth the time it takes to read it. Next subject please?Dionisio
October 11, 2017
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