Jaceli123’s off topic thread, volume 1

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December 26, 2013

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Some visit UD trying to get answers for their questions. To that effect, Jaceli123 and others have been fielding questions that maybe some of you can answer. I don’t have answers toJaceli123’s question about tails and jaws.

Other than that, have at it. Here is my off-topic: Boxer George Forman became a Christian after a near death experience.

He’d been a burlger, and misfit. He then became an Olympic champion and then Heavyweight champ. But then Ali dethroned Foreman of the title. Some time later, Foreman had a near death experience, and friends and family could not comprehend the transformation. He became kind and charitable….running out of money, he came back to the boxing ring to give glory to God. In 1994, at age 45 Foreman regained his title (that was a miracle!).

From the Boxing Encyclopedia:

http://boxrec.com/media/index.php/Jimmy_Young_vs._George_Foreman

In his dressing room after the fight, Foreman told his trainer, Gil Clancy, that as he left the ring, he was plunged into despair. He thought he had died, and a giant hand was carrying him out of the emptiness surrounding him. He then said his head and hands were bleeding, and he began to yell, “Jesus Christ is coming alive in me.” With that, Foreman jumped into the shower before Clancy and the others in the room could stop him. As the water poured down on him, Foreman began to shout, “Hallelujah, I’m clean! Hallelujah, I’ve been born again!” Clancy later said, “It was hot as hell in the ring. He was hallucinating from dehydration.” Foreman, who believed he had a real religious experience, retired from boxing and became an ordained minister. Ten years later, Foreman returned to boxing at the age of 38.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OrGYY22ZPb4

As always in my prayers I said “God, if I win this thing again, before the whole world I’m gonna get down on my knees and thank you. And when it happened, I got down on my knees and thanked God above.”

This reminds me of this Bible verse by the Apostle Paul:

I do not fight like a boxer beating the air

Apostle Paul

I got a little choked up seeing the photo of Foreman kneeling in prayer at the MGM Grand in Las Vegas.

Here were the other testimonies of Christian conversion:

Ba77’s OT vol 2– Fuchida

Ba77’s OT vol 3– Lon Solomon, Micahel Franzese, Doyle Brunson

The guidelines for offtopics:
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2. Keep it family friendly (limit the vulgarity, please)
3. Some degree of civility please

Comments

Look at all these natural processes that we used to think took thousands/millions of years to happen, but which have been demonstrated to happen very quickly! http://www.icr.org/article/7874/
Normally slow-decaying radioisotopes sometimes decay in very short time frames.4 Wood petrifies in decades or even weeks.5 Coal forms within weeks.6 Bacteria produce opals in weeks.7 Floods gouge huge canyons within hours or days.8 Brown coal releases natural gas in two to five days.9 Magma moves over 2,000 feet per day through Earth’s crust.10 Sedimentary layers are laid down in minutes.11 Diamonds harden in a matter of minutes.12 Gold forms from deep earthquakes almost instantly.13
tjguy_{January 15, 2014
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For my YEC friends: Best of 2013 Creation News: Earth's Age http://www.icr.org/article/7869/tjguy_{December 30, 2013
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tjguy, Thanks, I posted a small memorial to Dr. Arp. https://uncommondescent.com/cosmology/halton-arp-hero-to-both-yecs-and-anti-big-bangers-passes-away/scordova_{December 30, 2013
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Many ID proponents love the Big Bang hypothesis because they think it provides evidence for a creation and a Creator. Personally, I think they are mistaken.
Okay.
First off, Yahweh does not need evidence from human science to make himself known.
This is a non-sequitur.
Second, atheists have already conjured up a cockakamie explanation that excludes God from the Big Bang picture
This is a comment about materialists - of no consequence to the evidence.
Third, the Big Bang theory is full of contradictions and other problems of logic and interpretation.
This is an unsupported assertion.
Finally, neither the Big Bang nor Physics at large offers an answer to the most important unanswered question in physics: why do things move?
Another non-sequitur.Upright BiPed_{December 30, 2013
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Many ID proponents love the Big Bang hypothesis because they think it provides evidence for a creation and a Creator. Personally, I think they are mistaken. First off, Yahweh does not need evidence from human science to make himself known. He has prepared a few surprises in store for that purpose. Human science will be blown out of the water in the process. Second, atheists have already conjured up a cockakamie explanation that excludes God from the Big Bang picture: the universe goes from Big Bangs to Big Crunches, from white holes to black holes and back, over and over and it's been that way forever. IOW, God had nothing to do with it. "Voodoo science" does not do this cr*p justice. Third, the Big Bang theory is full of contradictions and other problems of logic and interpretation. Finally, neither the Big Bang nor Physics at large offers an answer to the most important unanswered question in physics: why do things move? In other words, it's just the ignorant leading the blind.Mapou_{December 30, 2013
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Thanks TJGuy, Perhaps someone will post this as news. If not, I will. Sad especially for those of us that are banking on the Big Bang being false. The Big Bang is sort of a mixed bag. It is loved by some ID proponents, and hated by the YECs. :-) Salscordova_{December 30, 2013
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Halton Arp, Big Bang Critic, passes away on Dec. 28, 2013 http://creation.com/halton-arp-dies He was most famous for his unique theory on quasars that challenges the Standard Model.tjguy_{December 30, 2013
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I'm surprised that no one has picked up on this article on and commented on it:
“‘Be Different or Die’ Does Not Drive Evolution” is the game-changing headline on PhysOrg based on a press release from the University of Oxford. A decade-long study of ovenbirds on several continents shows that similar species can live together in harmony. The paper, published in Nature, challenges the idea that only the fittest survive in an ecosystem. - See more at: http://crev.info/2013/12/darwin-wrong-again/#sthash.FYqVdqL5.dpuf
Seems quite significant to me!tjguy_{December 29, 2013
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The Institute for Creation Research has the following 3 articles featured right now: Best Creation News of 2013: Human Origins Best Creation News of 2013: Astronomy Best Creation News of 2013: Tissue Fossils icr.orgtjguy_{December 29, 2013
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It is generally believed that Sodom and Gomorrah were located near the southern end of the Salt Sea. The kings of these cities were among those who battled in “the Low Plain of Siddim, that is, the Salt Sea,” and the way this is phrased suggests that the Low Plain of Siddim came to be covered by the Salt Sea. (Ge 14:3) The region of Sodom and Gomorrah where Lot settled was ‘well watered, like the garden of Jehovah.’ (Ge 13:10-12) Even today, in the plain along the SE shore, vegetation is abundant, and wheat, barley, dates, and vines can be grown there. The large amounts of bitumen and salt, especially in this southern section, also match the Biblical account of Sodom and Gomorrah.—Ge 14:10; 19:24-26. At one time the Valley of Siddim, located near Sodom and Gomorrah in the Dead Sea area, was noted for its “pits upon pits of bitumen” (“slimepits,” KJ). (Ge 14:10) Even today bitumen is occasionally washed ashore, suggesting that Siddim is presently located beneath the waters of the Dead Sea. Bitumen is also a flammable material and is so described by Isaiah, who prophesied that the land of Edom would “become as burning pitch.”—Isa 34:9.Barb_{December 28, 2013
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SC: He was responding to the German MP 44/StG 44 . . . the latter means Assault Rifle, the assault part being added by Hitler (who otherwise did not like rifles, seeing them as defensive-minded). The StG 44 was in use by 1944 on the eastern front and the western one as well. The AK 47 was in itself a legitimate weapon of war, but was then spread far and wide very irresponsibly by both the USSR and China, making it into a global scourge. KFkairosfocus_{December 28, 2013
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The inventor of the AK-47, Mikail Kalashnikov passed away. He seemed like a nice guy, but what a horrific invention: http://www.themoscowtimes.com/news/article/tens-of-thousands-mourn-kalashnikov-designer-in-his-hometown/492132.htmlscordova_{December 28, 2013
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More evidence of a intelligently designed incendiary attack waged on 5 separate, geographically separated cities simultaneously:
http://blogs.christianpost.com/comets-of-god/human-remains-found-at-sodom-16700/ Human Remains Found at Sodom! In a culture that generally believes that science and faith in the Bible are incompatible, once again scientific evidence has been discovered that supports the Bible’s testimony of a real historical event. The April 2013 book entitled Discovering the City of Sodom by Dr. Steven Collins and Dr. Latayne Scott published by Howard/Simon and Schuster details how Dr. Collins came to believe Tall el-Hammam in Jordan was the location of ancient Sodom. Dr. Collins made this determination based on Genesis 13:10 which placed Sodom and Gomorrah in the “plain of the Jordan (River),” an area that it describes as “well watered.” In an otherwise arid land, this same area that remains well watered even today could only be the somewhat circular plain at the southern end of the Jordan River before it enters the Dead Sea. Dr. Collins, an archaeologist at Trinity Southwest University in Albuquerque, New Mexico, has excavated in this area for seven years. However, his breakthrough discovery came in 2011 when he found human skeletal remains and an unusual potsherd at the siteof Tall el-Hammam. While the unusual potsherd hardly compares in sheer visual drama tothe obvious glories of Stonehenge or the pyramids, it is turning out to be an artifact of monumental importance. The discovery and analysis of this potsherd provides physical evidence for what caused the destruction of Sodom and Gomorrah by fire from heaven. Dr. Collins found the 4,000 year old potsherd that would fit in the palm of your hand in an undisturbed layer of hardened black ash. One side is typical of ancient pottery, but the opposite side is coated with a thin layer of a beautiful translucent greenish glass called trinitite. The trinitite tells us that one side of this clay potsherd was briefly subjected to an extremely high temperature, which caused the silicon of its clay to melt and be converted to glass. Trinitite gets its name from the first atomic bomb test in1945 near Alamogordo, NewMexico whosecode name was Trinity. Trinitite was formed when the sandy clay soil at the test site was drawn up and melted by the explosion, then rained down and solidified into glass. We now know that a comet or large comet fragment exploding in the atmosphere can produce the same effects as an atomic explosion, including the very high temperatures necessary for the formation of desert glass such as trinitite. This trinitite coated potsherd corroborates that the brimstone and fire Genesis 19:24 says rained out of heaven came from a comet fragment that exploded in the atmosphere over Sodom and Gomorrah. Like an atomic explosion, this comet explosion over Sodom and Gomorrah would have caused a fiery column of smoke, dust, ash and debris to rise up (possibly looking like a mushroom cloud). Genesis 19:28 tells how Abraham “looked toward Sodom and Gomorrah, and toward all the land of the plain, and beheld, and lo the smoke of the country went up as the smoke of a furnace.” The same black ash that contained the “Trinitite Potsherd” also revealed the partial skeletal remains of three individuals who were found huddled together in this black ash. Their bones were abnormally extended and twisted. The leg of one was charred off at mid-femur. While the intense heat generated by the fireball of a cometary explosion would literally vaporize everyone it directly hit, these people somehow were partially shielded. The macabre scene speaks of the sudden death and extreme trauma that engulfed these three people who were among those alive at the time the Bible says Abraham negotiated to save the city.
scordova_{December 28, 2013
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From Catholic Priest http://wdtprs.com/blog/2011/12/sodom-and-gomorrah-excavated-guess-how-they-were-wiped-out/
Sodom and Gomorrah Excavated By far the most interesting session at the recent Society of Biblical Literature Congress in San Francisco was one I wandered into by chance. I am always curious about what is going on in biblical archeology, so one afternoon I ... go hear about the excavations at a certain site called “Tall-el-Hammam.” I had no idea what I was in for. After about five minutes into the session, I realized that the archeological team assigned to this dig was convinced that they had found the biblical Sodom and Gomorrah. After another half-hour, it seemed they had most of the participants convinced as well. The sites fit the geographical and temporal context into which Sodom and Gomorrah are placed in the biblical texts. The cities at the site were suddenly and completely wiped out in the Late Bronze Age, which makes a reasonably good fit with the biblical accounts of Abraham and Lot. The entire presentation was very convincing, but never once did they deal with the “elephant in the room”: what caused the sites to be suddenly abandoned? As soon as the session was over, I was the first to raise my hand. “Did you find any arrow heads? Signs of invasion? What happened to them?” The lead archeologist paused for a moment. “I didn’t want to go there,” he said. Another pause. “I’m preparing material for publication.” Pause. “All I want to say ‘on camera’ is, they appear to have been wiped out in a ‘heat event’.” A “heat event”!? What?! “If you want to know more, I’ll talk after the session off the record.” I wish I could divulge what he said to a small group of us clustered around the podium after the session was over, but it would break confidence. We’ll have to wait for the official peer-reviewed publications.
scordova_{December 28, 2013
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Here is an interesting possible ID inference of Sodom and Gomorrah, Zeboim, Admah, Zoar. There are some formations that look man-made with large burial sites associated with them with estimates of about 1,000,000 people. The formations look like a ruined cities. Curiously, non-rhombic pure sulfur spheres are found embedded in the ruins along with calcium sulfate. So we have a city, evidence of an unusual chemical warfare poured out upon it. It looks like there is ID both in the construction of the city and the intelligent design of its destruction using chemical incendiaries. I'll let the reader decide on the meaning: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XzVR5HTcR1Iscordova_{December 27, 2013
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This DVD seems to very similar in presentation to illustra media productions including the music and narrator. Here is a high quality opening few minutes: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w7Nca0GxvMA Here is the entire DVD in low quality: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CXf2IDS-9g0scordova_{December 27, 2013
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Ok thanks guys im not a troll or here to annoy anybody and ill try to respond anyway thanks again.Jaceli123_{December 27, 2013
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Moreover, It should also be noted that there are also a small but significant number of hellish NDE's reported within Judeo-Christian cultures:
video - Howard Storm continues to share his gripping story of his own near death experience. Today, he picks up just as Jesus was rescuing him from the horrors of Hell and carrying him into the glories of Heaven. http://www.daystar.com/ondemand/joni-heaven-howard-storm-j924/#.UKvFrYYsE31 "I knew for certain there was no such thing as life after death. Only simple minded people believed in that sort of thing. I didn't believe in God, Heaven, or Hell, or any other fairy tales. I drifted into darkness. Drifting asleep into anihilation.,,(Chapter 2 - The Descent),, I was standing up. I opened my eyes to see why I was standing up. I was between two hospital beds in the hospital room.,,, Everything that was me, my consciousness and my physical being, was standing next to the bed. No, it wasn't me lying in the bed. It was just a thing that didn't have any importance to me. It might as well have been a slab of meat in the supermarket",,, Howard Storm - former hard-core atheist - Excerpt from his book, 'My Descent Into Death' (Page 12-14) http://books.google.com/books?id=kd4gxtQAeq8C&pg=PA12#v=onepage&q&f=false
Moreover, to tie NDE's more directly to Christianity, It is noted that an extremely powerful source of 'supernatural' light is required to explain how the image formed on the Shroud:
Scientists say Turin Shroud is supernatural - December 2011 Excerpt: After years of work trying to replicate the colouring on the shroud, a similar image has been created by the scientists. However, they only managed the effect by scorching equivalent linen material with high-intensity ultra violet lasers, undermining the arguments of other research, they say, which claims the Turin Shroud is a medieval hoax. Such technology, say researchers from the National Agency for New Technologies, Energy and Sustainable Economic Development (Enea), was far beyond the capability of medieval forgers, whom most experts have credited with making the famous relic. "The results show that a short and intense burst of UV directional radiation can colour a linen cloth so as to reproduce many of the peculiar characteristics of the body image on the Shroud of Turin," they said. And in case there was any doubt about the preternatural degree of energy needed to make such distinct marks, the Enea report spells it out: "This degree of power cannot be reproduced by any normal UV source built to date." http://www.independent.co.uk/news/science/scientists-say-turin-shroud-is-supernatural-6279512.html
Kevin Moran, an optical engineer working on the mysterious '3D photographic negative' nature of the Shroud image, states the 'supernatural' explanation this way:
"It is not a continuum or spherical-front radiation that made the image, as visible or UV light. It is not the X-ray radiation that obeys the one over R squared law that we are so accustomed to in medicine. It is more unique. It is suggested that the image was formed when a high-energy particle struck the fiber and released radiation within the fiber at a speed greater that the local speed of light. Since the fiber acts as a light pipe, this energy moved out through the fiber until it encountered an optical discontinuity, then it slowed to the local speed of light and dispersed. The fact that the pixels don’t fluoresce suggests that the conversion to their now brittle dehydrated state occurred instantly and completely so no partial products remain to be activated by the ultraviolet light. This suggests a quantum event where a finite amount of energy transferred abruptly. The fact that there are images front and back suggests the radiating particles were released along the gravity vector. The radiation pressure may also help explain why the blood was "lifted cleanly" from the body as it transformed to a resurrected state." http://www.shroudstory.com/natural.htm The absorbed energy in the Shroud body image formation appears as contributed by discrete values - Giovanni Fazio, Giuseppe Mandaglio - 2008 Excerpt: This result means that the optical density distribution,, can not be attributed at the absorbed energy described in the framework of the classical physics model. It is, in fact, necessary to hypothesize a absorption by discrete values of the energy where the 'quantum' is equal to the one necessary to yellow one fibril. http://cab.unime.it/journals/index.php/AAPP/article/view/C1A0802004/271
I suggest If scientists want to find the source for the supernatural light which made the "3D - photographic negative" image on the Shroud I suggest they look to the thousands of documented Near-Death Experiences (NDE's) in Judeo-Christian cultures. It is in their testimonies that you will find mention of an indescribably bright 'Light' or 'Being of Light' who is always described as being of a much brighter intensity of light than the people had ever seen before.
Ask the Experts: What Is a Near-Death Experience (NDE)? - article with video Excerpt: "Very often as they're moving through the tunnel, there's a very bright mystical light ... not like a light we're used to in our earthly lives. People call this mystical light, brilliant like a million times a million suns..." - Jeffery Long M.D. - has studied NDE's extensively http://abcnews.go.com/Nightline/beyondbelief/experts-death-experience/story?id=14221154#.T_gydvW8jbI "Suddenly, I was enveloped in this brilliant golden light. The light was more brilliant that the light emanating from the sun, many times more powerful and radiant than the sun itself. Yet, I was not blinded by it nor burned by it. Instead, the light was a source of energy that embraced my being." Ned Dougherty's - Fast Lane To Heaven - Quoted from "To Heaven and Back" pg. 71 - Mary C. Neal MD
All people who have been in the presence of 'The Being of Light', while having a deep NDE in a Judeo-Christian culture, have no doubt whatsoever that the 'The Being of Light' they were in the presence of is none other than 'The Lord God Almighty' of heaven and earth.
“The Light was brighter than hundreds of suns, but it did not hurt my eyes. I had never seen anything as luminous or as golden as this Light, and I immediately understood it was entirely composed of love, all directed at me. This wonderful, vibrant love was very personal, as you might describe secular love, but also sacred. Though I had never seen God, I recognized this light as the Light of God. But even the word God seemed too small to describe the magnificence of that presence. I was with my Creator, in holy communication with that presence. The Light was directed at me and through me; it surrounded me and pierced me. It existed just for me.” – testimony taken from Kimberly Clark Sharp’s Near Death Experience http://www.near-death.com/sharp.html The Easter Question - Eben Alexander, M.D. - March 2013 Excerpt: More than ever since my near death experience, I consider myself a Christian -,,, Now, I can tell you that if someone had asked me, in the days before my NDE, what I thought of this (Easter) story, I would have said that it was lovely. But it remained just that -- a story. To say that the physical body of a man who had been brutally tortured and killed could simply get up and return to the world a few days later is to contradict every fact we know about the universe. It wasn't simply an unscientific idea. It was a downright anti-scientific one. But it is an idea that I now believe. Not in a lip-service way. Not in a dress-up-it's-Easter kind of way. I believe it with all my heart, and all my soul.,, We are, really and truly, made in God's image. But most of the time we are sadly unaware of this fact. We are unconscious both of our intimate kinship with God, and of His constant presence with us. On the level of our everyday consciousness, this is a world of separation -- one where people and objects move about, occasionally interacting with each other, but where essentially we are always alone. But this cold dead world of separate objects is an illusion. It's not the world we actually live in.,,, ,,He (God) is right here with each of us right now, seeing what we see, suffering what we suffer... and hoping desperately that we will keep our hope and faith in Him. Because that hope and faith will be triumphant. http://www.huffingtonpost.com/eben-alexander-md/the-easter-question_b_2979741.html
Verse and Music:
1 John 1:5-7 "This is the message we have heard from him and declare to you: God is light; in him there is no darkness at all. If we claim to have fellowship with him and yet walk in the darkness, we lie and do not live out the truth. But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship with one another and the blood of Jesus, his Son, purifies us from all sin." Kutless - Take Me In (to the Holy Of Holies) – http://www.metacafe.com/w/4716801
bornagain77_{December 27, 2013
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One of the more fascinating branches of Near Death Studies have been the studies of people who were born blindvwho could see for the first time in their life during their NDE. This simply has no explanation within the materialistic framework, whereas, in the theistic framework, this is expected:
Blind Woman Can See During Near Death Experience (NDE) - Pim von Lommel - video http://www.metacafe.com/watch/3994599/ Kenneth Ring and Sharon Cooper (1997) conducted a study of 31 blind people, many of who reported vision during their Near Death Experiences (NDEs). 21 of these people had had an NDE while the remaining 10 had had an out-of-body experience (OBE), but no NDE. It was found that in the NDE sample, about half had been blind from birth. (of note: This 'anomaly' is also found for deaf people who can hear sound during their Near Death Experiences(NDEs).) http://www.newdualism.org/nde-papers/Ring/Ring-Journal%20of%20Near-Death%20Studies_1997-16-101-147-1.pdf
Many Christians are wary of Near Death Experiences because many facets of NDE's do not conform to what Christians generally imagine heaven to be like,,,
'In the 'spirit world,,, instantly, there was no sense of time. See, everything on earth is related to time. You got up this morning, you are going to go to bed tonight. Something is new, it will get old. Something is born, it's going to die. Everything on the physical plane is relative to time, but everything in the spiritual plane is relative to eternity. Instantly I was in total consciousness and awareness of eternity, and you and I as we live in this earth cannot even comprehend it, because everything that we have here is filled within the veil of the temporal life. In the spirit life that is more real than anything else and it is awesome. Eternity as a concept is awesome. There is no such thing as time. I knew that whatever happened was going to go on and on.' Mickey Robinson - Near Death Experience testimony - video http://www.metacafe.com/watch/4045544 The NDE and the Tunnel - Kevin Williams' research conclusions Excerpt: "I started to move toward the light. The way I moved, the physics, was completely different than it is here on Earth. It was something I had never felt before and never felt since. It was a whole different sensation of motion. I obviously wasn't walking or skipping or crawling. I was not floating. I was flowing. I was flowing toward the light. I was accelerating and I knew I was accelerating, but then again, I didn't really feel the acceleration. I just knew I was accelerating toward the light. Again, the physics was different - the physics of motion of time, space, travel. It was completely different in that tunnel, than it is here on Earth. I came out into the light and when I came out into the light, I realized that I was in heaven." Barbara Springer - Near Death Experience - The Tunnel - video https://vimeo.com/79072924
But as to the fact that heaven seems strange to how we may have a-priorily imagined it to be as Christians, all I can ask is 'how do we know that we really imagined such an ineffable paradise accurately in the first place?'
Evidence For Heaven - Afterlife - Near Death Experiences - video https://vimeo.com/20420223
As well, many Christians are also very wary of Near Death Experiences because many people who have them are not overtly "Christian'. Yet if one looks at foreign Near Death Experiences, in non-Judeo-Christian cultures, then one finds an extreme poverty of extremely pleasant Near Death Experiences. All foreign, non-Judeo-Christian culture, NDE studies I have looked at have a extreme rarity of encounters with 'The Being Of Light' and tend to be very unpleasant NDE's save for the few pleasant children's NDEs of those cultures that I've seen (It seems there is indeed an 'age of accountability'). The following study was shocking for what was found in some non-Judeo-Christian NDE's:
Near-Death Experiences in Thailand - Todd Murphy: Excerpt:The Light seems to be absent in Thai NDEs. So is the profound positive affect found in so many Western NDEs. The most common affect in our collection is negative. Unlike the negative affect in so many Western NDEs (cf. Greyson & Bush, 1992), that found in Thai NDEs (in all but case #11) has two recognizable causes. The first is fear of 'going'. The second is horror and fear of hell. It is worth noting that although half of our collection include seeing hell (cases 2,6,7,9,10) and being forced to witness horrific tortures, not one includes the NDEer having been subjected to these torments themselves. http://www.shaktitechnology.com/thaindes.htm Near Death Experience Thailand Asia - video http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y8M5J3zWG5g Mesiah from I Survived Beyond and Back part 2 - video http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FehcSO5YNUI
bornagain77_{December 27, 2013
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Since Sal brought up the subject of Near Death Experiences, I think it would be well to reflect on just how strong the evidence is for Near Death Experiences:
Dr. Jeffrey Long: Just how strong is the evidence for a afterlife? - video http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mptGAc3XWPs The Scientific Evidence for Near Death Experiences - Dr Jeffrey Long - Melvin Morse M.D. - video http://www.metacafe.com/watch/4454627 Facts about NDEs - video clip on the site Excerpt: In 1982 a Gallup poll estimated that 8 million Americans have had a near-death experience and a more resent study, a US News & World Report in March of 1997, found that 15 million have had the experience. http://www.ndelight.org/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=117&Itemid=63 Near-Death Experiences: Putting a Darwinist's Evidentiary Standards to the Test - Dr. Michael Egnor - October 15, 2012 Excerpt: Indeed, about 20 percent of NDE's are corroborated, which means that there are independent ways of checking about the veracity of the experience. The patients knew of things that they could not have known except by extraordinary perception -- such as describing details of surgery that they watched while their heart was stopped, etc. Additionally, many NDE's have a vividness and a sense of intense reality that one does not generally encounter in dreams or hallucinations.,,, The most "parsimonious" explanation -- the simplest scientific explanation -- is that the (Near Death) experience was real. Tens of millions of people have had such experiences. That is tens of millions of more times than we have observed the origin of species (or origin of life), which is never.,,, The materialist reaction, in short, is unscientific and close-minded. NDE's show fellows like Coyne at their sneering unscientific irrational worst. Somebody finds a crushed fragment of a fossil and it's earth-shaking evidence. Tens of million of people have life-changing spiritual experiences and it's all a big yawn. Note: Dr. Egnor is professor and vice-chairman of neurosurgery at the State University of New York at Stony Brook. http://www.evolutionnews.org/2012/10/near_death_expe_1065301.html "A recent analysis of several hundred cases showed that 48% of near-death experiencers reported seeing their physical bodies from a different visual perspective. Many of them also reported witnessing events going on in the vicinity of their body, such as the attempts of medical personnel to resuscitate them (Kelly et al., 2007)." Kelly, E. W., Greyson, B., & Kelly, E. F. (2007). Unusual experiences near death and related phenomena. In E. F. Kelly, E. W. Kelly, A. Crabtree, A. Gauld, M. Grosso, & B. Greyson, Irreducible mind (pp. 367-421). Lanham, MD: Rowman & Littlefield. Michaela's Amazing NEAR death experience - video http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jTcHWz6UMZ8 The Day I Died - Part 4 of 6 - The Extremely 'Monitored' Near Death Experience of Pam Reynolds - video http://www.metacafe.com/watch/4045560
Another piece of evidence that also argues very strongly against any type of materialistic explanation for Near Death Experiences is what is termed 'Shared Death Experience'. A 'Shared Death Experience' is an experience in which a close loved one, though not terminally ill, is caught up into part of the Near Death Experience as a beloved passes on:
Dr. Raymond Moody on Shared Death Experiences - video http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A-ihzzYjqeE
As well, even though the atheistic researchers in this following study found evidence directly contradicting what they had expected to find, they were/are so wedded to the materialistic/naturalistic view of reality, the view of “I’ am my body”, that it seems sadly impossible for them to even conceive of the possibility that there may be a, “I’ am a soul distinct from my body” view of reality.
'Afterlife' feels 'even more real than real,' researcher says - Wed April 10, 2013 Excerpt: "If you use this questionnaire ... if the memory is real, it's richer, and if the memory is recent, it's richer," he said. The coma scientists weren't expecting what the tests revealed. "To our surprise, NDEs were much richer than any imagined event or any real event of these coma survivors," Laureys reported. The memories of these experiences beat all other memories, hands down, for their vivid sense of reality. "The difference was so vast," he said with a sense of astonishment. Even if the patient had the experience a long time ago, its memory was as rich "as though it was yesterday," Laureys said. http://www.cnn.com/2013/04/09/health/belgium-near-death-experiences/ A Doctor's Near Death Experience Inspires a New Life - video Quote: "It's not like a dream. It's like the world we are living in is a dream and it's kind of like waking up from that." Dr. Magrisso http://www.nbcchicago.com/on-air/as-seen-on/A-Doctor--186331791.html Dr. Eben Alexander Says It's Time for Brain Science to Graduate From Kindergarten - 10/24/2013 Excerpt: To take the approach of, "Oh it had to be a hallucination of the brain" is just crazy. The simplistic idea that NDEs (Near Death Experiences) are a trick of a dying brain is similar to taking a piece of cardboard out of a pizza delivery box, rolling it down a hill and then claiming that it's an identical event as rolling a beautiful Ferrari down a hill. They are not the same at all. The problem is the pure materialist scientists can be so closed-minded about it. per Huffington post
bornagain77_{December 27, 2013
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Jaceli123, as to 'human tail' birth defect:
The baby born with a tail is no evidence of evolution Excerpt: Human babies born with tails are no more evidence that humans evolved from apes or monkeys than human babies born with 8 limbs are evidence that we evolved from spiders. http://www.creationtips.com/babytail.html
Moreover, the erroneous Darwinian presupposition that the human tail bone is vestigial (useless) has led to much medical malpractice in the past in that people who unwittingly have it removed, by a Doctor who believed it to be useless, have difficultly sitting comfortably thereafter:
Evolution's "vestigial organ" argument debunked Excerpt:,,,The tailbone, properly known as the coccyx, is another supposed example of a vestigial structure that has been found to have a valuable function—especially regarding the ability to sit comfortably. Many people who have had this bone removed have great difficulty sitting. http://www.ucg.org/science/god-science-and-bible-evolutions-vestigial-organ-argument-debunked/ Fact-Checking Wikipedia on Common Descent: The Evidence from Comparative Anatomy - Jonathan M. - October 2011 Excerpt: "1. The human coccyx (tail bone) is functional inasmuch as it provides essential anchorage points for muscles.""2. The rare congenital deformities where a human is born with a tail-like appendage are usually resultant from a type of fatty tumor which has no relationship to a monkey's tail." http://www.evolutionnews.org/2011/10/fact-checking_wikipedia_on_com051711.html No, It’s Not a Tail! - May 2012 Excerpt: In 2004, an important study was published in the journal Cells Tissues Organs. It studied 52 different human embryos at different stages of development, and it reassessed our knowledge of human embryonic development. In that study, the authors note: "The eminence produces the caudal part of the notochord and, after closure of the caudal neuropore, all caudal structures, but it does not produce even a temporary ‘tail’ in the human.",,, As you can see, then, the idea that human embryos have temporary tails during their embryonic development has been thoroughly debunked in the scientific literature. The only question that remains is how long evolutionists will continue to use this myth to promote their failing hypothesis. http://blog.drwile.com/?p=7621
bornagain77_{December 27, 2013
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J1: It would help if, when your questions get an answer, you don't vanish from the thread. That is troll-like behaviour, and as BA77 hints at we get trolls and worse -- much worse -- here. I suggest you comment on the response, in some way, even to say, you have actively read and are processing. KFkairosfocus_{December 27, 2013
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Jaceli123, I don't think anyone is mad at you. Maybe annoyed that you bring up your questions and comments at inappropriate places in threads (something that I am very guilty of myself), but not mad. In fact, if you want to see people truly get mad at you, for no reason at all, try to defend the thesis that life is Intelligently Designed, or just genuinely question the adequacy of Darwinian processes, to one of your teachers who is a convinced Darwinist (Warning your grade in the class may suffer drastically in the class). Darwinists are infamous for irrational hostility towards anyone who questions Darwinism. Censoring, Firing, and Blackballing anyone who dares question the sufficiency of undirected processes to produce the unfathomed integrated complexity that we find in life. A few (of many) notes in that regards: Though the evidence against neo-Darwinian evolution is overwhelming, anyone who dares question the sufficiency of Darwinism to explain all life on earth in the public school classroom, college, or public institutions such as the Smithsonian, is persecuted, as this following refrences clearly point out:
EXPELLED - Starring Ben Stein - video http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P-BDc3wu81U Slaughter of Dissidents - Book "If folks liked Ben Stein's movie "Expelled: No Intelligence Allowed," they will be blown away by "Slaughter of the Dissidents." - Russ Miller http://www.amazon.com/Slaughter-Dissidents-Dr-Jerry-Bergman/dp/0981873405 Origins - Slaughter of the Dissidents with Dr. Jerry Bergman - video http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y6rzaM_BxBk Slaughter of the Dissidents - Dr. Jerry Bergman - June 2013 - video http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2v5nAYU2GD0 Darwinists protesting too much (Over "Darwin's Doubt) - Telling signs of a worldview in trouble - By Subby Szterszky | July 23, 2013 Excerpt: "Their online followers echo the disrespect in even harsher tones; any rare voice of dissent in support of Meyer is promptly browbeaten into silence. The attitude is not unlike a bunch of insecure schoolyard bullies, closing ranks and reassuring each other by trading insults aimed at the uncool kid across the yard." http://www.focusinsights.org/article/science-and-technology/darwinists-protesting-too-much “In the last few years I have seen a saddening progression at several institutions. I have witnessed unfair treatment upon scientists that do not accept macroevolutionary arguments and for their having signed the above-referenced statement regarding the examination of Darwinism. (Dissent from Darwinism list)(I will comment no further regarding the specifics of the actions taken upon the skeptics; I love and honor my colleagues too much for that.) I never thought that science would have evolved like this. I deeply value the academy; teaching, professing and research in the university are my privileges and joys… ” Professor James M. Tour – one of the ten most cited chemists in the world https://uncommondescent.com/intelligent-design/a-world-famous-chemist-tells-the-truth-theres-no-scientist-alive-today-who-understands-macroevolution/ Top Ten Most Cited Chemist in the World Knows That Evolution Doesn’t Work – James Tour, Phd. – video http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WCyAOCesHv0
etc.. etc.. etc.. And this persecution, i.e. unreasonable anger, from Darwinists, is even though some leading evolutionists themselves, who are beyond the power of direct retribution by hard core neo-Darwinists, severely question the undirected processes of Darwinism to generate all life on earth:
Evidence for Creation now banned from UK religious education classes - July 2012 Excerpt: Recently, evolutionist Suzan Mazur published a book entitled, The Altenberg 16: An Exposé of the Evolution Industry.,, The Altenberg 16 is a group of top university academics who met together at a symposium held at Altenberg in Austria in 2008. According to Mazur, these leading evolutionary scientists ‘recognize that the theory of evolution which most practicing biologists accept and which is taught in classrooms today, is inadequate in explaining our existence.’ Some of the delegates would clearly go further. According to molecular biologist, Professor Antonio Lima-de-Faria, not only is the Darwinian paradigm wrong, but it ‘actually hinders discovery of the mechanism of evolution.’ Professor Massimo Piattelli-Palmarini spoke for a number in stating simply that natural selection ‘is not the way new species and new classes and new phyla originated.’ Professor Jerry Fodor confessed, ‘I don’t think anybody knows how evolution works.’ If scientists can’t point to a natural process that can drive evolution, why should evolution (by force of law) be taught as science, (as a fact), in school classrooms? http://creation.com/creation-religious-education "Evolution is the only 'scientific theory' that needs laws to protect it!" Author Unknown
Music and Verse:
EXPELLED - Richard Dawkins – Beware the Believers - music video http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eaGgpGLxLQw John 15:18 "If the world hates you, keep in mind that it hated me first.
bornagain77_{December 27, 2013
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Thanks for doing this. You guys make me smile no matter how mad you guys are. Thanks for all the help and support appreciate it and I promise I wont ask as many questions because I know it drives you guys crazy, to the point that you start to create posts about me. Anyway cool post and thanks!Jaceli123_{December 26, 2013
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F/N: I took time out to respond to J1 here, yesterday morning. AFAIK, s/he has not showed up in that thread since. KFkairosfocus_{December 26, 2013
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From wiki: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/George_Foreman
Foreman's title challenge against Moorer took place on November 5 in Las Vegas, Nevada, with Foreman wearing the same red trunks he had worn in his title loss to Ali 20 years earlier. This time, however, Foreman was a substantial underdog. For nine rounds, Moorer easily outboxed him, hitting and moving away, while Foreman chugged forward, seemingly unable to "pull the trigger" on his punches. Entering the tenth round, Foreman was trailing on all scorecards. However, Foreman launched a comeback in the tenth round and hit Moorer with a number of punches. Then a short right hand caught Moorer on the tip of his chin, gashing open his bottom lip and he collapsed to the canvas. He lay flat on his back as the referee counted him out. In an instant, Foreman had regained the title he had lost to Muhammad Ali two decades before. He went back to his corner and knelt in prayer as the arena erupted in cheers. With this historic victory, Foreman broke three records: he became, at age 45, the oldest fighter ever to win the World Heavyweight Championship; 20 years after losing his title for the first time, he broke the record for the fighter with the longest interval between his first and second world championships; and the age spread of 19 years between the champion and challenger was the largest of any heavyweight boxing championship fight.
scordova_{December 26, 2013
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Here is a video of the full Foreman-Moorer fight. Foreman's victory was a miracle. Moorer dominated the fight for 10 rounds, but Foreman got two well placed punches (a left jab followed by devastating right cross). And Moorer was knocked out and was never the same since. It wasn't evident from the video, but Moorer was hit so hard his mouth piece went into his gum and he later needed surgery. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c0-WR3qcWp4 Undefeated Moorer was Goliath in terms of speed and youth. Foreman was David. Miracle!scordova_{December 26, 2013
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