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On Orange Gods and the One Apple God

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This morning a friend said she had recently heard an atheist make the “I am atheistic about just one more god than you are” argument. Ricky Gervais makes the argument this way:

So next time someone tells me they believe in God, I’ll say “Oh which one? Zeus? Hades? Jupiter? Mars? Odin? Thor? Krishna? Vishnu? Ra?…” If they say “Just God. I only believe in the one God,” I’ll point out that they are nearly as atheistic as me. I don’t believe in 2,870 gods, and they don’t believe in 2,869.

Like many things the new atheists say, the argument has a kind of first blush plausibility but does not hold up on even a moment’s reflection. As David Bentley Hart explains in The Experience of God: Being, Consciousness, Bliss, Gervais has made a glaring category error by lumping the God of the three great monotheistic faiths in with other “gods”:

according to the classical metaphysical traditions of both the East and West, God is the unconditioned cause of reality – of absolutely everything that is – from the beginning to the end of time. Understood in this way, one can’t even say that God “exists” in the sense that my car or Mount Everest or electrons exist. God is what grounds the existence of every contingent thing, making it possible, sustaining it through time, unifying it, giving it actuality. God is the condition of the possibility of anything existing at all.

Properly understood, the God of the monotheistic faiths is not like the gods in the Greek, Norse or Indian pantheons – contingent creatures all. He is pure being that is the source of all being. He is the necessary being, and by definition there can be only one necessary being. The necessary being cannot be compared to contingent beings. To lump the God of the monotheistic faiths in with Odin demonstrates that you understand neither God nor Odin.

Think of it this way. Gervais says in essense: “There are a bunch of oranges, and I disbelieve in all of the oranges without exception. You are little different from me because you admit that you also disbelieve in all of the oranges, except for that last little orange that you irrationally insist on clinging to.” No, Ricky, just like you I disbelieve in all of the oranges without exception. But I do believe in an apple. Why should I stop believing in an apple just because I don’t believe in oranges?

Comments
PS: Speaking in terms of "my truths" betrays PoMo influence on your thought. I suggest here as a help.kairosfocus
October 20, 2014
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TK: I see, clipped from you:
In any case the idea of “the ultimate absolute truth” does not seem a coherent concept to me.
1 --> Is it incoherent to understand "truth says of what is, that it is; and of what is not, that it is not"? (Note, this paraphrases Ari in Metaphysics 1011b) 2 --> Is it incoherent to say, there is a reality out there that can in principle be accurately described? If so, where do the contradictions you imply lie? I put it to you, there are none. 3 --> Further, can we at least in principle have pure, undiluted, untainted milk? 4 --> Just so, can we have pure, undiluted, untainted truth? 5 --> Is that not what "the truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth" summarises? 6 --> Is such relevant to the context of the roots of reality, and the worldview analysis mission of seeking to conform as much as possible to reality? (And may we start with the point that the Josiah Royce proposition, error exists is both a consensus rooted in experience and an undeniable, self-evident truth. Thus, a knowable, logically, empirically and morally certain, knowable . . . and humbling . . . truth. This cuts a wide swath across all too much of current ill-founded thought.) 7 --> On that, I suggest you may find here on helpful. KFkairosfocus
October 20, 2014
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Moose Dr i have no idea why 1 is an ultimate absolute truth. And i would be surprised if this was what Dionisio was referring to. And i don't know anything about post modernism. I just meant i will never get to the end of figuring out my own truths let alone worrying about some absolute ultimate truth.Turbokid
October 20, 2014
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Querius, if you want a yes or no then my answer is no. But as i say, the question does not really have any meaning to me.Turbokid
October 19, 2014
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An atheist may see this all as a distinction without a difference. :-) UD: Then he would be wrong.DiEb
October 19, 2014
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Turbokid, I don't know how to put it any simpler.
Would you be willing for the True and Living God to enter your life?
The possible answers are yes or no. If God actually exists, you'll either be willing or not willing to have God in your life. -QQuerius
October 19, 2014
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Turbokid, "In any case the idea of “the ultimate absolute truth” does not seem a coherent concept to me. The truth about what? What would make it ultimate and absolute?" Consider this ultimate absolute truth -- one. Is there such a thing as one, 1? Did somebody invent 1? "I am more interested in my own truths." You mean you blindly follow the ways of postmodernism. Why would you fathom that the postmodernists have it right?Moose Dr
October 19, 2014
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Dionisio, I am sorry, your life experience sounds terrible. I maybe understand why you believe in God. Querius, I am afraid your questions do not make sense to me. I have no idea what it might mean for the "true and loving God" to enter my life. To me, that just sounds like gibberish. The concept of a God "entering my life" makes no sense to me. So accordingly there is no way I can ask sincerely for this.Turbokid
October 19, 2014
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Turbokid,
If this God exists it would be hubristic of me to expect it to communicate direct with me.
What if that's what God wants? He is sovereign. I believe God has revealed to me who I am and who He is. That has humbled me, because I can't take any credits for that. It was not an intellectual achievement. I'm not afraid of the Light. The closer I get to it, the better I see everything, including my defects. My IQ score is about the same as my age, but changes in the opposite direction. My reading comprehension is worse than poor. My communication skills are almost nonexistent. I have caused pain to others. I have violated all God's commandments. Anything I could be proud of? Nope. Nothing, nada, zero. My identity is in Christ alone.Dionisio
October 19, 2014
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Turbokid, Here's the question for your life: Would you be willing for the True and Living God to enter your life? If so, what do you think might happen? If you ask, ask in sincerity and humility. If there is no God, you won't get an answer. -QQuerius
October 19, 2014
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Dionisio, same answer. If this God exists it would be hubristic of me to expect it to communicate direct with me.Turbokid
October 19, 2014
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Turbokid
The truth about what?
About everything! :)Dionisio
October 19, 2014
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How many Gods are there? In my opinion, it is incorrect to say that there is one God. Yahweh calls himself Yahweh Elohim, which literally means Lords Yahweh. Elohim is a plural word and has been so from the beginning when the Elohim said "Let us make man in our image." In Isaiah, Yahweh is reported to have said that he was the first among the Elohim and that all the other Elohim came after him. We know he was angry with the many Elohim of the land of Egypt and we know he was jealous of the many Elohim of Assyria. There is evidence that Yahweh is not just one God but billions of Gods united as one. Some believe that the name "Yahweh of hosts" means exactly that. "Yahweh of legions" might be a better translation. But it gets better. Jesus himself said, "let them be one with us as we are one together" and, quoting Psalms, "ye are Gods." So yeah, we too are Gods and we will soon join a united pantheon of billions upon billions of other Gods. So what does this mean in the light of other scriptures that maintain that there is only one God? I'd say the other scriptures are either wrong (they don't belong in the Bible) or they are misinterpreted. For example, the expression "God is one" does not mean that there is only one God. It's referring to oneness not the number 1. In sum, the answer to 'how many Gods are there?' is simply, billions upon billions, maybe even trillions. One man's opinion, of course.Mapou
October 19, 2014
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Turbokid
it would be hubristic of me to consider that I might discover it.
What if God Himself reveals it to you? Why not? :)Dionisio
October 19, 2014
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38 phoodoo
Then if one believes in 100 Gods does that make them atheist?
What does the term 'atheist' mean?Dionisio
October 19, 2014
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Dionisio @36, if there is an ultimate absolute truth, it would be hubristic of me to consider that I might discover it. In any case the idea of "the ultimate absolute truth" does not seem a coherent concept to me. The truth about what? What would make it ultimate and absolute? I am more interested in my own truths.Turbokid
October 19, 2014
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Turbokid, You may also want to look into this site in order to satisfy your intellectual curiosity on the subject you expressed interest in: http://nabeelqureshi.com/ I personally have not read much about those topics, though. Lately I've been reading more on other nonreligious topics: https://uncommondescent.com/evolution/a-third-way-of-evolution/#comment-519746Dionisio
October 19, 2014
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This lame argument is repeated ad nauseam especially by certain celebs and on websites etc. My answer is, I reject all gods except the Biblical GOD for the same reason I reject all wrong answers to a math problem except the right one.Blue_Savannah
October 19, 2014
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Barry, Then if one believes in 100 Gods does that make them atheist?phoodoo
October 19, 2014
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Turbokid as to,
Dionisio, no, I am not interested in looking for the ultimate absolute truth as I consider that a pointless quest.
Really??? Care to take a very short test on that belief? Presuppositional Apologetics - easy to use interactive website http://www.proofthatgodexists.org/index.phpbornagain77
October 19, 2014
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Turbokid @ 33
I am not interested in looking for the ultimate absolute truth as I consider that a pointless quest.
Why do you consider it a pointless quest?Dionisio
October 19, 2014
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Turbokid, Here's another site where you could find some answers to your intellectual questions about the subject that interests you: http://www.drmarkgabriel.com/ Here's a link to a book on this subject too: http://www.amazon.com/Islam-And-The-Jews-unfinished/dp/0884199568/ref=pd_bxgy_b_img_z Note that there are other books by the same author.Dionisio
October 19, 2014
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Turbokid, That name Allah is an Arabic reference to a monotheistic concept of God -apparently started in the 6th century- which initially borrowed some textual references, though with changes, from the much older Judeo-Christian scriptures, and mixed them with their own ingredients. Perhaps Querius can explain this better.Dionisio
October 19, 2014
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Dionisio, no, I am not interested in looking for the ultimate absolute truth as I consider that a pointless quest. The reason I ask the questions is curiosity. I have, I guess, an intellectual interest in religion. I have no desire to partake of it myself, but I am interested in why others believe it. Thanks for the response Querius, so I take it the answer is no? If Jesus is not Allah, but he is the Father, then the Father and Allah are not the same.Turbokid
October 19, 2014
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Horus is ready to discredit the Christian faith again, this time armed with some devastating information courtesy of your 19 year old atheist cousin's blog.bornagain77
October 19, 2014
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Horus Reads the Internet - video https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4r2m_cffRjIbornagain77
October 19, 2014
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addendum to post # 16: there is one God. This is the fundamental affirmation of the Jewish religion (Deut. 6:4; cf. Rom. 3:30; 1 Cor. 8:6; Gal. 3:20; Eph. 4:6). one mediator between God and men. There is One who arbitrates between God and humanity and reconciles them. the man Christ Jesus. Paul’s focus is on Christ’s humanity, perhaps because the false teachers had denied that Christ was truly human. The full humanity of Christ is essential to His serving as Mediator of the covenant of grace. [Reformation Study Bible provided by Ligonier Ministries]Dionisio
October 19, 2014
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Turbokid, Post # 26 by Querius should answer the question you asked me on post # 22. However, I'm still interested in reading your comments on my post # 25. Thank you.Dionisio
October 19, 2014
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Querius, Thank you for the well written and clarifying comment. I could not have said it better. Rev. 22:21Dionisio
October 19, 2014
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Turbokid Here's a link a friend mentioned to me: http://i2ministries.org/ Perhaps you can find some interesting information in it. Kind regards.Dionisio
October 19, 2014
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