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Remembrance Day: The strangers who tried to help Corporal Cirillo

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Gunned down by a terrorist, while doing ceremonial duty at a war memorial in Ottawa. Here (November 2, 2012):

As she reached the memorial, Winters saw four people bending over a fallen soldier. She dropped her purse and briefcase on the steps and began to help.

Margaret Lerhe, a nurse on her way to work at the Elizabeth Bruyere Hospital, was pressing her hands to a wound on Cpl. Nathan Cirillo’s left side to stanch the bleeding.

Another corporal, a third member of the honour guard who accompanies the two standing at attention, was on Cirillo’s right side, pressing his hands to a wound there.

Another soldier was bent over Cirillo’s head, talking to him.

“You’re doing good, you’re doing good, buddy,” he told Cirillo. “You’re breathing — keep breathing.”

You heard it somewhere ELSE first, right, that nobody helps (the selfish gene and all that)…

Missed the signal in Ottawa, apparently.

Further, added after the Remembrance Day ceremony at a local old folks: The Last Post

In Canada, usually followed by the Reveille: = I believe in the resurrection of the dead and the life of the world to come. (Credo resurrectionem mortuorum et vitam venturi seculi) – and to heck with materialists’ complaints.

Fun: When I was a child I learned that my father had taken part in “firing squads.” I couldn’t believe this, and asked him about it. He explained, no, not to kill any unarmed person. It was the conventional 11 or 21 gun salute at an armed forces’ funeral. Here is one example:

Comments
He didn’t say that it was. I don’t think he could have explained any more clearly: he’s unhappy with the sneering tone UD takes towards unbelievers.
That's correct, it's not an issue that this site is run by Christians, just trying to understand the population of ID supporters. And it's true I don't care for the sneery posts. I appreciate Christians don't all have to be sugar and spice, but frankly the tone at times is just plain unpleasant. If you are trying to win atheists over to your side, it's not an effective method. But then I'm guessing that isn't the mission of this website.roding
November 13, 2014
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He didn't say that it was. I don't think he could have explained any more clearly: he's unhappy with the sneering tone UD takes towards unbelievers.Learned Hand
November 13, 2014
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Well, all the people who operate UD are Christians. But in North America, that would not be a surprising discovery, census-wise. Why is it supposed to be a problem?News
November 13, 2014
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07:33 AM
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If you are looking for orthodoxy, keep looking.
No, not looking for orthodoxy, just trying to establish who is attracted to ID. I would still say that by and large UD at least seems to have a Christian bent - particularly given the frequent anti-atheist posts and of course some posters and commentators are quite blatant in their religious views, even to the point of quoting scripture. Again, I'm not an atheist, but I do find the atheist taunting too much - particularly when many atheists are who they are because of how badly the church has treated them (I have friends in this category). ID may or may not be a valid scientific endeavor, but I have no doubt in my mind that religion plays a large influence.roding
November 12, 2014
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Roding at 19, News isn't interested in politics. The point is a simple one and should not be opaque to a person of common sense: Most free countries in the world today (on internationally recognized scales) happen to have a Christian cultural heritage. So it should not be surprising that people who feel free to front a heterodox opinion (without much fear of getting shot or beheaded) would be disproportionately Christians. I don't know what would happen if every country was as free as the one that Behe and Dembski live in or the one that I do. Maybe we would be hearing from far more non-Christians, on these subjects but I just don't know and no one else does either. So far as I know, Behe is a Catholic, Dembski is a Protestant (Baptist), Wells is a member of the Unification Church (most people do not think that it is a form of Christianity). Denton is, I gather, a Platonist of some kind. If you are looking for orthodoxy, keep looking.News
November 12, 2014
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I believe Berlinski is an agnostic also, roding. But in any case, blog comment boxes bring out different aspects of personalities, especially from anonymous posters. My suggestion would be not to focus so much on the personalities but rather on what the ID inference is. As has been said, ID is independent of religious belief systems. I'm sure there's a high correlation between acceptance of ID and religious belief, but not because belief is required. Believers will tend to be quicker to accept the ID inference. There's a book like this also: Seeking God in Science: An Atheist Defends Intelligent Design http://www.amazon.com/Seeking-God-Science-Atheist-Intelligent/dp/1551118637Silver Asiatic
November 12, 2014
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News at 17
I am not sure if ID is predominantly supported by Christians.
Honestly, I don't understand what everybody is talking about here, that's what I'm trying to understand. So far topics such as FSCI are clear as mud. My personal view is that ID needs a Sagan or somebody with a communications gift to better convey the main tenets of ID to a non-technical public. No offence to anybody posting here, but that person has yet to show. Not sure if there is data to support your assertion that ID is not largely a Christian movement. Certainly in looking at the people who post at UD (the main and leading ID blog?), it does appear to be mostly Christian. Same with the leading authors - Meyers, Dembski, Behe. I suppose Berlinski and Wells have different perspectives. But MarkF is right, News did a nice job of deftly turning my original comment around! News should become a politician.roding
November 12, 2014
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Trashing the local news desk is a waste of your time if you are serious. The local newsdesk might get more respect if it made a serious effort to be accurate and reliable. Claiming that Being as Communion is "in the top 100 in the Kindle store" was untruthful and misleading, but possibly just the result of casual carelessness. Failing to correct the misstatement once it was pointed out is simply a lack of respect for the truth.Learned Hand
November 12, 2014
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roding, I am not asking you to read Dembski's recent book or any work by him or Meyer or anyone in order to get converted. I would be content if you understood what we are talking about. I am not sure if ID is predominantly supported by Christians. Christians tend to live in free/semi-free/aspiring free countries where it is legal to believe something other than what the government believes. So people might tell you. Remembrance Day tends to remind us of that.News
November 12, 2014
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Gary at #12
I’m curious to know what you are looking for from ID theory, what it needs to be useful to you.
I'm really just trying to increase my knowledge. As an agnostic I try to be open-minded, so want to truly understand what ID is about. I suppose I'm particularly interested in understanding why ID seems to be predominantly supported by Christians. So one of my specific interests is trying to assess how ID is compatible (or not) with Christian theology and scripture. But I'm not looking for ID to be useful in any sense, and as I'm not a scientist I doubt if it would be. Could ID challenge my agnosticism? Hmmm....roding
November 11, 2014
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We have here two examples of IDists employing Darwinian Debating Devices. In the OP DDD #15 - wilfully distorting the materialist position (DDD #15 refers to the ID position - but it is the same device applied to the other side). In comment 5 (and in several following) DDD #3 moving the goalposts. Roding commented on the sneery nature of many ID OPs and comments. Comment 5 responded by challenging the seriousness of Roding's interest in ID - thus sidestepping the issue Roding had raised.markf
November 11, 2014
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GOD bless those people for not simply allowing 'survival of the fittest' to play out. Altruism destroys darwinism!Blue_Savannah
November 11, 2014
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Why not actually read something like that?
I never said I wouldn't read it. I would actually consider read it (I'm very curious about Meyers books too such as Signature in the Cell). And I have already read some Christian apologetic books. I'd hope too you would take some of my feedback seriously, I am not trying to be a troll, but was given you some honest feedback. I appreciate you are being sarcastic, but sometimes it's just too much.roding
November 11, 2014
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Roding:
I am agnostic and quiet interested in ID, but I’m really put off by the at times supercilious and sanctimonious attitudes.
I'm curious to know what you are looking for from ID theory, what it needs to be useful to you.Gary S. Gaulin
November 11, 2014
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Roding at 8: If you are not going to read Dembski’s Being as Communion or any papers by Marks, Dembski, and Ewert, no special reason anyone would ban you but not clear they should take you seriously. Why not actually read something like that?News
November 11, 2014
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Roding, there are a couple things that will earn an immediate banning. Suggest, even remotely, that Barry may not be fully honest will get you banned. Use KF's real name (Gordon Mulling) is a close second. After that, the surest way to get banned is to criticize the lack of science behind ID.centrestream
November 11, 2014
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If you are going to talk about The Selfish Gene you should probably read it, or at least its back cover. If you are going to use Rememberance Day to score points in a debate you should probably stop and think about how that makes you look.wd400
November 11, 2014
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Trashing the local news desk is a waste of your time if you are serious.
I am hardly trashing the news "desk". Just giving you some honest feedback, but of course it's quite clear you are not open to criticism (especially from pond scum like myself). It's interesting that many UD contributors complain about "tone" but do not realize how much their own tone is a barrier to communications and understanding. Does this earn me the honor now to be banned :-)roding
November 11, 2014
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"You heard it somewhere ELSE first, right, that nobody helps (the selfish gene and all that)…" I guess the fact that the nurse is an atheist really doesn't work well with the sneery narrative. Hmmmm.centrestream
November 11, 2014
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Well said, News. Roding should have grasped that cultists understand nothing other than satire.Axel
November 11, 2014
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Roding, if you are interested in ID, read Dembski's Being as Communion and any papers by Marks, Dembski, and Ewert. Trashing the local news desk is a waste of your time if you are serious.News
November 11, 2014
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Why spoil it with this crude misrepresentation of materialism?
It's interesting that a few days ago News made a posting about an article from Nature that she called "sneery". Yet I have to say that nearly all of News postings have a sneery tone to them to me. I am agnostic and quiet interested in ID, but I'm really put off by the at times supercilious and sanctimonious attitudes. It seems some of the denizens here have a real dislike of people not of their own persuasion. Ultimately as an outreach technique I don't think that's going to work very well.roding
November 11, 2014
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News, thanks. The lessons of history were bought with blood and tears. Let us heed them and let us pause and reflect on a solemn day, lest we pay the same price again. KFkairosfocus
November 11, 2014
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You heard it somewhere ELSE first, right, that nobody helps (the selfish gene and all that)…
? Nogoodusername
November 11, 2014
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You heard it somewhere ELSE first, right, that nobody helps (the selfish gene and all that)…
A moving set of quotes about people doing altruistic things. Why spoil it with this crude misrepresentation of materialism?markf
November 11, 2014
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