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SAD NEWS EVENT: Mass murder at nightclub in Orlando, FL

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Drudge headline:

A bit of background: The club may have attracted terrorist attention. Info re believed shooter. Allegiance to Islamic State Worst mass shooting in US? Islamic State claims responsibility US Prez: “Our thoughts and prayers are with the families and loved ones of the victims.

orlando_attack_jun16

Sky News:

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I add, current Wki article intro, as Wiki tends to do a fair job of tracking developing events:

>>On June 12, 2016, a gunman killed at least 50 people and wounded 53 others in a mass shooting at Pulse, a gay nightclub in Orlando, Florida. The gunman was identified as 29-year-old Omar Mir Seddique Mateen, an American citizen of Afghan descent.[3] The Orlando Police Department are treating the case as an act of domestic terrorism.[4] The shooter pledged allegiance to the Islamic State of Iraq and the Levant (ISIL) before the attack.[5][6]

The incident is the deadliest mass shooting[7][8][4][9] and the deadliest attack on LGBT people in United States history;[10] and it is the deadliest “terror attack” in the U.S. since the September 11, 2001 attacks.[11][12]>>

This seems to be of a — horrific — piece with the Paris and San Bernardino attacks. (The direct parallel to Bataclan makes chatter about “gun control” as the solution patently irrelevant.)

Per Drudge, it seems Gateway Pundit and Walid Shoebat are saying there was an ISIS threat against Florida three days ago. Sky News reports a call to emergency services just prior to the attack, during which loyalty was pledged to IS. A now sadly familiar modus operandi.

Mass murder, demonic evil on the loose, 4th generation war with no distinction between military and civilians.

Let us get what seems to be relevant geostrategic context:

geostrat-pic

It seems the weapon is an AR-15  Sig Sauer MXC Semi-Auto, which would be a semiauto 5.56 mm NATO weapon. At Bataclan,  AK 47s were used.

I think, again, that we need to look to serious target hardening, given the successful defense of the Geller event in Garland TX. END

97 Replies to “SAD NEWS EVENT: Mass murder at nightclub in Orlando, FL

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  3. 3
    velikovskys says:

    KF:
    This seems to be of a — horrific — piece with the Paris and San Bernardino attacks. (The direct parallel to Bataclan makes chatter about “gun control” as the solution patently irrelevant.)

    The evidence that he bought the guns in the last couple of days would seem to make it relevant.

  4. 4
    kairosfocus says:

    VS, while I really do not want to get into an exchange just now, I note that in Paris the restrictions on firearms are far more stringent than anything that would be imposed in the US for the foreseeable future. All it did was create a massive soft target. The tactical lesson is, targets need to be hardened in a 4th gen war world in which the determined WILL be able to get hands on weapons (as long as drugs are smuggled, so can be guns); as the Garland TX case also shows. Also, as was discussed here at UD after the San Bernardino case. KF

  5. 5
    Querius says:

    I’m sure that we’re all saddened by these murders, and the delusion and hostility that that instigated them.

    History repeatedly and conclusively demonstrates that weakness, not strength, is provocative. If some of the victims were armed, they could have defended themselves.

    Our hearts go out to their friends and families.

    -Q

  6. 6
    velikovskys says:

    KF:
    VS, while I really do not want to get into an exchange just now,

    No problem but generally when you say you don’t want to get into an exchange you should resist the temptation of making the same point again.

  7. 7
    velikovskys says:

    Querius:
    History repeatedly and conclusively demonstrates that weakness, not strength, is provocative. If some of the victims were armed, they could have defended themselves.

    Yes,firearms and alcohol spell safety.

  8. 8
    zeroseven says:

    [Deleted]
    zeroseven is no longer with us.

  9. 9
    kairosfocus says:

    07 & Seversky (et al):

    I find the media spin game most ill advised, given that a more serious issue is on the table, murder driven by 4th generation warfare terrorism.

    But it seems that we are an increasingly challenged civilisation when it comes to thinking through serious matters. Too often,triggering, tangents and emotionally manipulative talking points substitute for sound thinking.

    Which concern should sound quite familiar.

    In that context, the attempt to invidiously associate principled objection to homosexualist agendas with bigotry, hate speech and worse is itself a warning flag. There is no excuse for this, which has been all over the news within hours.

    Sorry, despite agit prop tactics there is a serious question mark on the morality of homosexual behaviour and other similar matters of conduct; to try to pretend that questioning such can only be motivated by hate is itself a sign of just how seriously wrong such agendas are.

    And no, that people at a homosexual night club were subjects of mass murder is awful and to be mourned in its own right. But that does not convert objectively disordered or morally questionable behaviour into what is right. Those are two different issues.

    All of this is besides the main point that needs to be made here, which is tactical in a strategic context.

    Not grandstanding . . . a turnabout rhetorical tactic that does not speak well 07. Soft targets for terrorist attacks are a highly germane issue here, not a distraction. And the need to harden soft targets needs to be on the table.

    Now, before this stuff spins out of control utterly; requiring the sort of draconian measures that run serious risks for liberty.

    You have here an acknowledged ISIS terrorist attack, with the gunman involved making that clear also. Someone who was a known question-mark.

    If you took a moment to compare Garland, San Bernardino and Bataclan, you would immediately see the tactical point I have made. Softening the targets in the face of a 4th gen war terrorist threat is not going to help you. In Paris, guns are in effect banned. All that got you was a bigger killing zone. Ditto for Bombay, 2008.

    Garland TX showed a different way: harden the likely targets. Similar BTW to what the Israelis did with schools after some terrorist attacks in the 1970s.

    No, this is not oh let there be a free for all in the rum shops.

    The previous discussion pointed to the need to take a leaf from the Swiss and others, and to build a network of armed, trained, disciplined civilian marshals as a baseline target hardening response level. Notice, police took 3 hours coming on to mount an attack, long enough for a lot of victims to bleed out, but reasonable for those coming in from outside needing to find out the facts and set up a credible attack. Or things could have got much worse due to hasty ill informed action.

    That is obviously a when all else has failed response.

    We need something able to respond in seconds, trained, organised, disciplined armed responders on spot, who live there, work there, study there or whatever. A marshal corps.

    I did not say, this would be readily accepted in today’s political climate.

    But I do say we have good reason to see that this would work.

    Back in the 1940’s the Japanese military acknowledged that an attack on the continental USA would find a rifle behind every blade of grass.

    Meanwhile, let us all take a bit of time to pause and reflect on the sort of loss just suffered then wake up and recognise the sort of threats that confront us from jihad by bands up to the return of the Persian empire.

    KF

  10. 10
    kairosfocus says:

    07, again, it would be better if we did not go into back-forths. However, it seems there is a matter of 1400 years of context. Jihad by bands and lone or small squad suicide-attack assassins is a longstanding issue. Indeed the very term assassin harks back to that history. Yes, those who go into such behaviours are deluded but that does not make the problem any less real. And indeed ISIS has shifted to attack at home, even in the Caribbean we have had serious scares in recent months including an apparently credible threat to blow up an airport. Over in T/dad an Imam, responding to recent parliamentary exchanges on Trinis going to fight with ISIS said, if you are on the street in T/dad and someone touches you on the shoulder it could be one of them. Look up the taqiyya concept, tactical/strategic deception. I suggest also that you need to look at Beslan, the Moscow Theatre attack, the recent knife attack campaign in Israel and more to further see the point. There is a real problem that needs to be faced not dismissed. KF

  11. 11

    “zeroseven is no longer with us.”

    WTG – About time.

    But in case he’s reading here, I offer this:

    Christians believe that homosexuality is sin. We make no apology for that. We also believe that gay people are made in God’s image; and it’s not a contradiction.

    And we believe that gay people have a right to congregate peacefully as they most often do. We will fight to protect that right. And when sons and daughters are gunned down, we mourn their loss as members of our communities; regardless of their sexual choices.

    You’re comments are more than inflammatory, because some of us were gay by choice at one time, and have decided to follow Jesus. We know that we were just as valuable to God then, as we are now. We made that choice to leave behind our sexual desires in order to follow a higher calling, based on conviction. You obviously have “zero” respect for that conviction.

    Your commitment to the “progressive” mob mentality is apparent. Good luck with that.

    I’m actually glad you got kicked off here, because I found your recent comments here to be disgusting.

  12. 12
    Barry Arrington says:

    From zeroseven’s last comment: “I think subsequent investigation will show this wasn’t an ISiS attack”

    News report:
    “Twenty minutes into the attack, Omar Mateen dialed 9-1-1 and pledged allegiance to Abu Bakr al-Baghdadi, the leader of ISIS, and mentioned the Boston bomber.”

    One of the most spectacularly failed predictions in the history of the world. 07 should be grateful for being banned. It saves him from further such displays of idiocy, at least on these pages.

  13. 13
    Robert Byers says:

    It was a evil,event. Its sad to lose these people to murder and all should grieve with those who loved them.
    Its still an obscure event and not sampling of anything at all.
    The common people will see it as only mattering about the murder.
    Its the troublemakers who would use this to advance the gay agenda , gun control, interference in the middle east, or anything else.
    How could these things be stopped. Stopping immigration or these third world immigrant, or Muslim ones? Stopping gay clubs or gay parades or anything of the gay agenda which provokes anger.?
    It seems these are obscure events america must put up with as long as involvement in the fringes of civilization.
    Someone is to blame at the top however.
    The rulers and the forceful identities , representing fewm, seem to be in control and not the common people through democratic procedures on who gets their way.

  14. 14
    kairosfocus says:

    First, let us mourn those lost — only the chaos-devils of hell have anything to rejoice over here. Then, let us comfort those closely connected. Then, let us calm down to firm resolve and understand the strategic and tactical challenge our civilisation faces. Then, we must act in good time, guided by a sound understanding.

  15. 15
    Splatter says:

    Sad news, thoughts and prayers with you from the UK.

  16. 16
    velikovskys says:

    KF:

    All of this is besides the main point that needs to be made here, which is tactical in a strategic context.

    Not grandstanding . . . a turnabout rhetorical tactic that does not speak well 07. Soft targets for terrorist attacks are a highly germane issue here, not a distraction. And the need to harden soft targets needs to be on the table.

    Then you should have not proclaimed that gun control was patently irrelevant in this incident.

  17. 17
    kairosfocus says:

    VS,

    A day has passed, maybe I can say a few things:

    1 –> By tagetting a critical issue in the W culture wars, the jihadists got confused discussion and exacerbated polarisation in the W. Terrorism works by inducing fear, confusion and helpless compliance.

    2 –> By targetting revelry, drink and sexual deviancy subject to capital punishment under Sharia, they established the Jihadists as championing the Islamic vision of righteousness.

    3 –> Simultaneously the W is tainted in Islamic minds, feeding the geostrategic rifts.

    4 –> As noted, the known attacker pledged allegiance to Al Baghdadi, Caliph, which in Islamic minds establishes credentials as a representative of the Umma in the battle with Dar ul Harb, of which the USA is seen as principal champion.

    5 –> Further to the targetting, that this is part of a global surge during Ramadan is not coincidental.

    6 –> The target was a soft one, putting the issue of target hardening on the table.

    7 –> However, given the agenda that constructs “gun control” as solution to “gun violence” (failing to observe implications of Bataclan 2015 and Bombay 2008 etc) the reaction is to further soften targets. “Gun control” is demonstrated not to be relevant to blunting jihad by bands/ assassin suicide team attacks, as it softens the targets. Garland TX points the way, though handguns are not the best weapons.

    8 –> I have already pointed out the SWAT response time, 3 hours; in-place organised marshals defending access points and having sharpshooter overwatch of crowded areas would respond within a minute. (I favour semiauto Tavors with 6.5 mm Grendels and optical sights. Bullpup form factor, high accuracy. Longer barrel for a given length of weapon.)

    KF

  18. 18
    kairosfocus says:

    PS: I add, churches and schools are typically also soft targets. The list of IslamIST terrorist attacks on churches and schools is grim.

  19. 19
    velikovskys says:

    KF:
    VS,

    A day has passed, maybe I can say a few things:

    1 –> By tagetting a critical issue in the W culture wars, the jihadists got confused discussion and exacerbated polarisation in the W. Terrorism works by inducing fear, confusion and helpless compliance.

    Actually it looks like one guy, with no clear jihadist dogma. We have yet to determine if the jihadism was just rationalization for his solution to his culture wars.

    2 –> By targetting revelry, drink and sexual deviancy subject to capital punishment under Sharia, they established the Jihadists as championing the Islamic vision of righteousness.

    It is their objective moral system . Interestingly the same day a nonjhadist was arrested armed to the teeth at the site of a gay pride parade.His motivation was unclear.

    3 –> Simultaneously the W is tainted in Islamic minds, feeding the geostrategic rifts.

    Many people yearn for a return to the good old days when conformity could be enforced formally by law or informally by societal pressures.

    4 –> As noted, the known attacker pledged allegiance to Al Baghdadi, Caliph, which in Islamic minds establishes credentials as a representative of the Umma in the battle with Dar ul Harb, of which the USA is seen as principal champion.

    He also expressed solidarity with known enemies of ISIS, for what that is worth. Your use of an unqualified ” Islamic minds” is interesting, in your view is there only one kind of Islamic mind?

    5 –> Further to the targetting, that this is part of a global surge during Ramadan is not coincidental.

    Agreed, ISIS called for such

    6 –> The target was a soft one, putting the issue of target hardening on the table.

    There was an armed off duty police officer at the club who exchanged fire with the gunman, how many guns would have been sufficient hardening in a night club?

    7 –> However, given the agenda that constructs “gun control” as solution to “gun violence” (failing to observe implications of Bataclan 2015 and Bombay 2008 etc) the reaction is to further soften targets

    No one claims that gun control will stop all terrorism, especially an organized military operation. As for softening targets, Florida gun control is hardly onerous and the killer still was able to kill 49 people. Apples to apples

    Gun control” is demonstrated not to be relevant to blunting jihad by bands/ assassin suicide team attacks, as it softens the targets.

    Irrelevant KF, this was one guy, the lack of a high powered rifle would have lowered the death toll. Your fixation on only one kind of terrorism is troubling, personally I don’t really care who is pulling the trigger in the church or movie theatre or office party. The more inefficient the tool the better. Now if that means someone can’t buy the most lethal killing tool without jumping thru a few hoops,sorry. There are plenty of deadly options out there to harden your target.

    Garland TX points the way, though handguns are not the best weapons.
    The people in Garland provoked a response and the police risked their lives to protect them, there was no element of surprise, so unless you are advocating 24hr police protection Garland is no prototype.

    8 –> I have already pointed out the SWAT response time, 3 hours; in-place organised marshals defending access points and having sharpshooter overwatch of crowded areas would respond within a minute. (I favour semiauto Tavors with 6.5 mm Grendels and optical sights. Bullpup form factor, high accuracy. Longer barrel for a given length of weapon.)

    The swat team response was not 3 hours KF, it was three hours to kill the guy. So tell me what would your snipers shoot at, the night club? The bathroom the killer was barricaded in?

    I appreciate your love of firearms, they are amazing tools. But personally it seems like a riskier situation having bored volunteers sitting of roofs with high powered weapons having to make snap decisions and accurate shots than the risk of a terrorist attack.

    KF

  20. 20
    kairosfocus says:

    VS,

    First, the op to take out the terr was 3 hrs in, which is the relevant response time. Understandably they needed to set up. The comparative is that marshals on the spot would respond in seconds as at Garland TX.

    Notice, as a purveyor of alcohol, gun free zone.

    One police officer is nowhere enough protection, there is need for layered defences starting at access points and with overwatch of large assembly areas. And, dismissive caricatures of what is needed are not going to help us: disciplined, trained, organised defences systematically rolled out across the community, planned as thoroughly as the Swiss have organised their citizen military.

    We need to register that we are back to the 1400 year war, and that we face determined 4th generation war tactics. The IslamISTS intend global conquest on a 100 year timeline. As shown through captured documents. Terrorism, acquiring nukes and settlement jihad are all components of a strategy. Duly funded by the ME oil patch.

    I am not saying this is popular or easy or will stop all assaults, but we need to wake up before what would be needed is so draconian that liberty will be among the casualties.

    Next, I find it amazing that after swearing allegiance to the Caliph (pregnant with significance as noted), and after ISIS acknowledged such, the no clear connexion to IslamISM talking point is still being pushed. There are signs of long term links that have come up also, this was a known case not out of the blue.

    As for the attempt to smear objectivity of morality, what part of right to life do you not understand?

    KF

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    Gordon Cunningham says:

    KF: “First, the op to take out the terr was 3 hrs in, which is the relevant response time.”

    No it’s not. From the time of the second gun battle to the SWAT action, this idiot did not fire a shot. Every little detail of this will be picked apart but the response time was much shorter than three hours.

    Notice, as a purveyor of alcohol, gun free zone.”

    Because nothing has ever gone wrong with combining alcohol and firearms.

    By doing what you are proposing, you are admitting defeat. The level of protection you are suggesting would be very costly and either put many establishments out of business.

    The more I read about the Orlando killings, the more it looks like the act of a lone crazy. It is possible that something like this was the result terrorism, hate and the easy access to assault weapons. If ISIS didn’t exist he could just as easily been inspired by the rantings of the Westboro Babtist church or Pat Robertson.

  23. 23
  24. 24
    kairosfocus says:

    GC,

    From CNN re t-line:

    http://edition.cnn.com/2016/06.....-timeline/

    2:09 a.m. ET: Pulse posts an urgent message on Facebook: “Everyone get out of Pulse and keep running.”
    A tense standoff follows. Police say they had to wait three hours to access the situation, get armored vehicles on the scene and make sure they had enough personnel . . . .

    Approximately 5 a.m. ET: Heavily armed SWAT team members use an armored vehicle to smash down a door at the club, clearing the way for some 30 people inside to flee to safety.
    SWAT officers confront the suspect in the doorway, shoot and kill him.
    5:05 a.m. ET: Post on Orlando police Twitter account says loud noise near scene was a “controlled explosion.”

    That sound was a controlled explosion by law enforcement. Please avoid reporting inaccuracies at this time.
    — Orlando Police (OrlandoPolice) June 12, 2016

    5:53 a.m. ET: Twitter account of police posts that shooter is dead.

    Next, if you looked above you will see that I have spoken to why rum shops understandably are no firearms zones. I spoke to the need for a disciplined organised marshal corps. Which obviously would not be drink and shoot.

    I suggest, yes, target hardening through a civilian corps would be costly, but ultimately much less so than alternatives.

    Cf Israel in the face of attacks since 2000.

    The man was a licensed security guard since 2007 which allowed him to access concealed carry permit and to pass background checks. Such testing, necessarily, passed him as psychologically responsible.

    He was not a crazy.

    If ex wife is believable, he may well have been bisexual. Consistent, with the known Afghan pattern of “boy play.”

    The context supports an act of honour by suicidal attack to redeem his name from shame under IslamIST thought.

    A shame-honour culture.

    His pledging of allegiance to the Caliph of the IS indicates he was acting as an agent of the Umma in his understanding. The IS seems to acknowledge him, and he seems to have years deep IslamIST background. And it seems an accomplice is sought.

    The lone crazy meme fails.

    We should also remind ourselves of Bataclan, which occurred in a Paris with far more stringent firearms restrictions. Compound this with the drugs and people smuggling trades; firearms smuggling and access to real assault rifles with select — single/ burst/ full auto — fire modes such as AK 47s cannot be blocked. Cf Mexico, Jamaica and Columbia.

    This is 4th generation war imposed by IslamISTS.

    The repeated attempt to push Bible-believing Christians into the same boat with ISIS speaks volumes, and fails.

    It seems I need to highlight very specific NT teaching on the relevant sin:

    1 Cor 6:9 Or do you not know that the unrighteous[b] will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived: neither the sexually immoral, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor men who practice homosexuality,[c] 10 nor thieves, nor the greedy, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor swindlers will inherit the kingdom of God. 11 And such were some of you. But you were washed, you were sanctified, you were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ and by the Spirit of our God. [ESV]
    ______________
    [b] Or wrongdoers
    [c] The two Greek terms translated by this phrase refer to the passive and active partners in consensual homosexual acts

    A call to redemption and life transformation as CY noted above, not murder. Backed up by many, many cases over 2,000 years.

    KF

  25. 25
    Gordon Cunningham says:

    KF: “He was not a crazy.”

    That is certainly up for debate.

    The context supports an act of honour by suicidal attack to redeem his name from shame under IslamIST thought.”

    You must have a special power to know what he was thinking and know what his motivations were. If he was gay or bisexual it is quite possible that he hated himself if he had been raised that homosexuality is a sin and an abomination. This belief is not unique to Islam. All the more reason to stop spreading destructive messages like that, and to stop treating homosexuality as anything other than natural.

    His pledging of allegiance to the Caliph of the IS indicates he was acting as an agent of the Umma in his understanding.”

    And, as already been pointed out, he also claimed allegiance to groups that are enemies of ISIS. This is not the behaviour of a man following a well thought out agenda. It sounds more like the ramblings of a hateful mad man.

    The lone crazy meme fails.”

    Yet it still stands as the most plausible explanation until new evidence surfaces.

    The repeated attempt to push Bible-believing Christians into the same boat with ISIS speaks volumes, and fails.”

    Nobody is doing this. I am merely saying that a person as crazy as this person appears to have been would have latched onto any inspiration, however irrational, for his actions. I picked the Westboro Babtist church and Pat Robertson as examples because of their frequent and often irrational rants against homosexuality. It could just as easily been his homophobic grade school teacher, or an anti-homosexual web site.

    Why don’t you send your clipped scripture to the families of the victims. I sure that they will be comforted by your telling them that their dead loved ones will not inherit the kingdom of God because they were unrepentant homosexuals. You, above all people, should know that words have consequences. Please be respectful of the victims.

  26. 26
    kairosfocus says:

    GC,

    Are you aware of the nature of the shame-honour culture at work and how it motivates jihad by bands, suicidal assassin attacks and so-called honour killings?

    (It seems there is a persistent even insistent failure of Sun Tzu’s maxim: “If you know the enemy and know yourself, you need not fear the result of a hundred battles. If you know yourself but not the enemy, for every victory gained you will also suffer a defeat. If you know neither the enemy nor yourself, you will succumb in every battle.”)

    Next, pledging allegiance to the Caliph before or during an attack has a very significant theological-legal force in IslamISM. That cannot be swept aside.

    Overall, it seems there is an insistence on denial of the patent facts of a jihad attack at the same time as a global surge is going on.

    As for morally loaded human behaviour, it is morally loaded.

    It is not disrespectful to victims of murder to have to speak to material circumstances. The murder is enough to require recognition of a wrong done. However that cannot transmute what they were doing into morally neutral or good behaviour.

    Lastly, it is high time that the attempts to project accusations or insinuations of hate, bigotry etc to those who have principled objections to homosexual behaviour were repudiated by those who should know better.

    KF

  27. 27
    Gordon Cunningham says:

    KF: “Are you aware of the nature of the shame-honour culture at work and how it motivates jihad by bands, suicidal assassin attacks and so-called honour killings?”

    Why, was there something about it that you were not sure about?

    Next, pledging allegiance to the Caliph before or during an attack has a very significant theological-legal force in IslamISM. That cannot be swept aside.”

    When it is done at the same time that he claims allegiance to groups that are enemies of the Caliph it can be swept aside as the ramblings of a mad man.

    Overall, it seems there is an insistence on denial of the patent facts of a jihad attack at the same time as a global surge is going on.”

    Or the insistence on examining the facts and drawing the most rational conclusion.

    As for morally loaded human behaviour, it is morally loaded.”

    Duh! Killing 49 people and wounding 50+ more for the crime of being gay would tend to make it morally loaded behaviour.

    It is not disrespectful to victims of murder to have to speak to material circumstances. The murder is enough to require recognition of a wrong done. However that cannot transmute what they were doing into morally neutral or good behaviour.”

    Yes, it is disrespectful. The fact that you would suggest that none of the victims is going to heaven because they are homosexual is one of the most disrespectful things I can think of. But this disrespect obviously doesn’t bother you. My moral standards are obviously higher than yours.

    Lastly, it is high time that the attempts to project accusations or insinuations of hate, bigotry etc to those who have principled objections to homosexual behaviour were repudiated by those who should know better.”

    Nobody is projecting or insinuating anything. If you perceive my comments as such, that really is due to your mindset, not mine.

  28. 28
    kairosfocus says:

    GC, enough has been said (perhaps, other than that IS derives from AQ and Hez, Iran and Sunni groups can and do work together in the common Jihad cause), and It is enough to add that denial will not change the reality Sun Tzu warned against. Something is deeply wrong when so many cannot bring themselves to acknowledge that jihad by bands, assassins etc is real and ongoing. KF

  29. 29
    Gordon Cunningham says:

    KF: “Something is deeply wrong when so many cannot bring themselves to acknowledge that jihad by bands, assassins etc is real and ongoing. KF”

    No, something is deeply wrong when paranoid, disturbed individuals assign every horrific event to the “jihad”.

    In this case, every bit of evidence suggests a seriously disturbed individual who despised homosexuals. He mentioned ISIS and you are more than happy to lump him in with your world-wide Islamist conspiracy. You ignore all evidence that it was not an ISIS planned attack. But you don’t care. It fits with your paranoid narrative.

  30. 30
    Mung says:

    I’m still trying to process how terrorism is not a hate crime. Maybe we should pass a law making terrorism a hate crime.

  31. 31
    Gordon Cunningham says:

    Mung: “I’m still trying to process how terrorism is not a hate crime.”

    Of course terrorism is a hate crime. But not all hate crimes are terrorism.

    Maybe we should pass a law making terrorism a hate crime.”

    Fine by me. But it seems rather redundant.

  32. 32
    kairosfocus says:

    GC, the evidence is patently there, that this particular incident is Jihadism motivated; Col Austin Bay is useful reading https://www.strategypage.com/on_point/20160613205048.aspx . It also points to a much broader 4th gen war threat from the IslamISTS (as opposed to all Muslims). Again, Sun Tzu’s dictum is a hard bought lesson. KF

  33. 33
    anthropic says:

    KF 26 “Lastly, it is high time that the attempts to project accusations or insinuations of hate, bigotry etc to those who have principled objections to homosexual behaviour were repudiated by those who should know better.”

    Odd, isn’t it, that it is the peace loving Muslims who are killing gays, instead of the supposedly hateful Christians who stand for traditional marriage.

  34. 34
    kairosfocus says:

    F/N: Overnight, I became aware the actual main weapon used was a semi-auto Sig Sauer MCX, not an AR-15; I assume the calibre is still 5.56 mm x 45 mm NATO and/or 0.223 inch Remington (similar but not the same) intermediate power* round. I believe the pistol used was a Glock 9 mm, but that is still an impression. I have adjusted the OP. I would like to see a summary on weapons use and effects, which would give useful context; beyond the forehead centre hit on the SWAT officer that seemed to have knocked off the night vision mount of his helmet — which in that context implies use of a 9 mm parabellum type pistol at that point as the 5.56 would have likely fatally penetrated (longer barrel, so higher speed but less “handy”). [Cf. here for preliminary info that suggests a shoot the way in, then shoot up scenario.] The 49:103 killed to wounded ratio is extremely high; but then a forehead centre hit from a handgun suggests trained, experienced, regularly practised and accurate marksmanship much superior to that of say a typical police officer. KF

    PS, FYI: In the 1940’s the Germans pioneered full calibre, standard powder load automatic rifles for paratroopers (in Crete, paratroopers with only pistols were decimated going up against Commonwealth troops armed with the fast cycling 0.303 Lee Enfield bolt action rifle and the Bren before they could reach their separate weapons containers); but found them hard to control, by contrast with say the heavier BAR, BREN or Lewis LMGs. As a result the MP 43/MP [–> StG] 44 intermediate power weapon was designed. Hitler himself, who viewed rifles as excessively defensive, on learning of the MP 44, renamed it Sturm Gewehr, assault rifle. The move to intermediate round was also driven by recognition that over 90% of actual combat was within 300 m. The results were sufficiently impressive that the Russians adopted the AK 47. In the 1960’s the US forces began to use the M16, having inter alia found out that full auto on the7.62 mm NATO M14 battle rifle was difficult to control. It is noteworthy that from the 1950’s, forced to standardise on 7.62 NATO (rather than the briefly adopted bullpup EM-2 firing an intermediate power 0.280 round) the British opted for a semiauto version of the FN FAL, the SLR. In 1962, Indian troops using the Lee Enfield were out-gunned by Chinese troops with AKs and SKS semiauto weapons firing the 7.62 mm x 39 mm cartridge. In the aftermath of the 1967 6-day war, experience with the FAL and Uzi led Israel to migrate to the Galil and M16; now they are going to the Tavor. In the 1970’s the USSR moved to 5.45 mm with the AK 74, but the older AK 47 is the most common AR in the world because it was widely supplied to Soviet and Chinese clients. The M14 made a bit of a comeback as in Afghanistan attackers were pulling back beyond the M-16’s effective range. (Note my preference for 6.5 mm Grendel in a Tavor, which is a modern bullpup.) However, the same characteristics of low recoil, manageability of weapon and useful effective range that pushed full auto infantry weapons to the AR type configuration, have led to dominance of AR-15 semiauto rifles similar to the M16 in the commercial rifle market.

    PPS: The “corrected” WaPo article here is inadvertently revealing of underlying gaps between the shaping narrative and the truth, even just by contrast with the sketchy outline just above. In short, there is a question on accuracy, balance, context and fairness that should put up Amber-Red warning flags.

  35. 35
    kairosfocus says:

    F/N: Raymond Ibrahim, a former Muslim, gives sobering counsel here. Well worth reading in full and following up onward links. As a sampler, one key remark:

    To the careful observer, all of these reactions from liberals, leftist media, and the Obama administration are par for the course whenever a jihadi terror attack occurs on American soil: stout denial of any connection between the attack in question and Islamic teachings; cynically exploiting the attack to demonize conservatives, gun advocates, and “homophobic” Christians; and cries that any scrutiny into Islam is tantamount to a “backlash” against Muslims.

    And it’s because all these reactions are standard that many more Islamic terrorist attacks are destined to occur on American soil.

    Sobering food for thought.

    Further sobering FFT.

    4GW experts tend to agree that there are two effective ways to defeat a 4GW strategy: drain the sea of people in which the guerrillas swim as Mao’s fish, or else ruthlessly deploy over-matching light infantry (and specialist troops for the info, lawfare and agit-prop battlespaces).

    I suppose, or both.

    4GW builds on guerrilla warfare by exhaustion and frustration and on the long history of piracy, so just forting up is not going to solve the problem. Nor will refusing to recognise settlement jihad (cf Ibrahim here) and establishment of enclaves and agents of influence for what they are.

    Eventually, a 4GW strategy has to be decisively defeated and utterly discredited at source. Often, frankly, involving some attrition that means taking casualties of your own to inflict large enough losses to decisively weaken the 4GW attackers who are forced to come out and fight; preferably for their logistics tail — and, no more off-limits sanctuaries, please. A guerrilla without adequate logistics is little more than a desperate straggler. Mix in modern, database backed CSI and soon he is a criminal on the run too with spec ops troops or a Hellfire missile just waiting to come in the door.

    That’s what “To the Shores of Tripoli” is about, after centuries of payoff by W powers to the Barbary Coast Pirates.

    KF

  36. 36
    velikovskys says:

    KF:
    First, the op to take out the terr was 3 hrs in, which is the relevant response time. Understandably they needed to set up. The comparative is that marshals on the spot would respond in seconds as at Garland TX.

    There was an armed policeman there, response time was seconds KF. Police are trained to handle hostage situations.

    Notice, as a purveyor of alcohol, gun free zone.

    Yes, guns in bars is generally viewed as dangerous

    One police officer is nowhere enough protection, there is need for layered defences starting at access points and with overwatch of large assembly areas.

    Sure, that would be ideal, we live in a world of finite resources. There are 537 bars and restaurants in Austin, it sounds like you would need thousands of civilian marshals to donate their time for training and duty, Every day of the year. For no pay,right? For one city.

    And, dismissive caricatures of what is needed are not going to help us: disciplined, trained, organised defences systematically rolled out across the community, planned as thoroughly as the Swiss have organised their citizen military.

    It is no caricature KF, you are talking about a massive undertaking of putting non professional armed men throughout urban America .

    We need to register that we are back to the 1400 year war, and that we face determined 4th generation war tactics. The IslamISTS intend global conquest on a 100 year timeline.

    They can plan all they want, shooting up a gay bar is not going to help world conquest.

    As shown through captured documents. Terrorism, acquiring nukes and settlement jihad are all components of a strategy. Duly funded by the ME oil patch.

    Sure, scary.

    I am not saying this is popular or easy or will stop all assaults, but we need to wake up before what would be needed is so draconian that liberty will be among the casualties.

    It sounds creating a society where we are under constant surveillance by armed men for our own possible protection that Liberty is already a causality

    Next, I find it amazing that after swearing allegiance to the Caliph (pregnant with significance as noted), and after ISIS acknowledged such, the no clear connexion to IslamISM talking point is still being pushed.

    To create fear is the only relevant talking point

    There are signs of long term links that have come up also, this was a known case not out of the blue.

    Yes,he sounds like a pissed off guy, possibly with repressed gay feelings, investigated by the FBI twice, who despite this was able to purchased highly efficient killing machines easily.

    As for the attempt to smear objectivity of morality, what part of right to life do you not understand?

    Your objective morality, KF. The killers of ISIS claim divine objectivity as well. They might say your objective morality is just your opinion of what the divine commands.

  37. 37
    kairosfocus says:

    VS,

    The first effective response was 3 hrs in as noted.

    You seem pre-occupied to undermine objectivity of morality while implying something wrong was done. Is that on what basis other than your own tastes and references?

    Try, right to life as a fundamental right tracing to being a quasi-infinitely valuable person. On which others owe basic duties of care including respect for life.

    Let this go for now.

    KF

  38. 38
    velikovskys says:

    KF:
    The first effective response was 3 hrs in as noted.

    Exchanging gunfire with the killer and forcing him to retreat seems pretty effective in saving lives.

    You seem pre-occupied to undermine objectivity of morality while implying something wrong was done. Is that on what basis other than your own tastes and references?

    You first KF, explain to the terrorist why your objective morality is better than his derived directly from the divine.

    Try, right to life as a fundamental right tracing to being a quasi-infinitely valuable person. On which others owe basic duties of care including respect for life.

    I agree but then that is just my opinion.

    Let this go for now.

  39. 39
    Gordon Cunningham says:

    KF: “GC, the evidence is patently there, that this particular incident is Jihadism motivated;”

    You stating this does not make it so. This guy was quite obviously a demented crazy who would have used anything to justify his lunacy. Someone who was truly inspired and motivated by ISIS would know that there are different factions of Islam that despise each other and would not have stated that he had allegiance with opposing factions.

    There is no doubt that ISIS wants and encourages these types of acts, but to claim that it was an ISIS jihad attack is not supported by the evidence that is currently available.

    Every time anyone like you blames every similar attack on ISIS or Islamism, the leaders of ISIS rub their hands in glee. I chose not to give them that satisfaction.

  40. 40
    Gordon Cunningham says:

    KF”The first effective response was 3 hrs in as noted.”

    That is patently incorrect. From most accounts (and it is still early to know everything) most of the killing happened in a very short time frame and was interrupted by the police officer that was on site. He was further restricted in his killing by the backup officers who also entered. These appear to be effective responses.

    You seem pre-occupied to undermine objectivity of morality…”

    VK was just stating a fact. ISIS kills homosexuals based on their objective morality.

    … while implying something wrong was done. Is that on what basis other than your own tastes and references?”

    Something wrong was done, according to my morality, your morality and VK’s morality. That doesn’t make it objective. It just means that we agree.

  41. 41
    kairosfocus says:

    terrorism
    [ter-uh-riz-uh m]

    noun
    1.
    the use of violence and threats to intimidate or coerce, especially for political purposes.
    2.
    the state of fear and submission produced by terrorism or terrorization.
    3.
    a terroristic method of governing or of resisting a government.

  42. 42
    kairosfocus says:

    VS & GC:

    1 –> Note definition from Dictionary. com

    2 –> Again, note timeline:

    2:09 a.m. ET: Pulse posts an urgent message on Facebook: “Everyone get out of Pulse and keep running.”
    A tense standoff follows. Police say they had to wait three hours to access the situation, get armored vehicles on the scene and make sure they had enough personnel . . . .

    Approximately 5 a.m. ET: Heavily armed SWAT team members use an armored vehicle to smash down a door at the club, clearing the way for some 30 people inside to flee to safety.
    SWAT officers confront the suspect in the doorway, shoot and kill him.
    5:05 a.m. ET: Post on Orlando police Twitter account says loud noise near scene was a “controlled explosion.”

    That sound was a controlled explosion by law enforcement. Please avoid reporting inaccuracies at this time.
    — Orlando Police (OrlandoPolice) June 12, 2016

    5:53 a.m. ET: Twitter account of police posts that shooter is dead.

    3 –> The evidence in hand would long since be enough to clearly delineate context, except that there is a narrative pushed by powerful forces that does not comport with the already quite evident facts. (Remember how many years it took to hear an acknowledgement of comparable facts in the Ft Hood massacre, this is just more of the same and it tells us a lot about the narrative.)

    4 –> It is obvious that those who incline the same way have a hard time acknowledging that the relevant objective moral principle is the right to life and so also thou shalt not shed innocent blood. Which, no person of mature years needs to be told.

    5 –> This too speaks volumes on the agendas we face and on what happens when objectivity of morals is dismissed.

    6 –> Go ask Israel about what it had to do in the face of determined suicide attack terrorism. Go ask Nigeria. Ask Kenya. Ask Christians from regions where churches have to be designed to guard against suicide attacks. Go ask the Yazidi women and Nigerian or Pakistani school girls about what they face. Welcome to reality, the continuation of the 1400 year war.

    7 –> BTW, there is a reason why US law speaks of the unorganised militia being the able-bodied population. Go, look at what the Swiss have done.

    8 –> And ask Israel what it cost and what it would have cost if they did not mobilise and organise for the mutual defense as they have done.

    9 –> We are FYI already under fairly constant surveillance, so soon as it is deemed necessary.

    10 –> I have already said what it will take to defeat a 4GW strategy — here, backed by a Trillion dollar value oil patch:

    4GW experts tend to agree that there are two effective ways to defeat a 4GW strategy: drain the sea of people in which the guerrillas swim as Mao’s fish, or else ruthlessly deploy over-matching light infantry (and specialist troops for the info, lawfare and agit-prop battlespaces).

    I suppose, or both.

    4GW builds on guerrilla warfare by exhaustion and frustration and on the long history of piracy, so just forting up is not going to solve the problem. Nor will refusing to recognise settlement jihad (cf Ibrahim here) and establishment of enclaves and agents of influence for what they are.

    Eventually, a 4GW strategy has to be decisively defeated and utterly discredited at source. Often, frankly, involving some attrition that means taking casualties of your own to inflict large enough losses to decisively weaken the 4GW attackers who are forced to come out and fight; preferably for their logistics tail — and, no more off-limits sanctuaries, please. A guerrilla without adequate logistics is little more than a desperate straggler. Mix in modern, database backed CSI and soon he is a criminal on the run too with spec ops troops or a Hellfire missile just waiting to come in the door.

    That’s what “To the Shores of Tripoli” is about, after centuries of payoff by W powers to the Barbary Coast Pirates.

    11 –> Sun Tzu is also relevant: “If you know the enemy and know yourself, you need not fear the result of a hundred battles. If you know yourself but not the enemy, for every victory gained you will also suffer a defeat. If you know neither the enemy nor yourself, you will succumb in every battle.”

    12 –> Cf the geostrategic sketch in the OP.

    KF

  43. 43
    Gordon Cunningham says:

    KF, re #41. I don’t think that anyone here is suggesting that this is not terrorism. Any mass shooting, regardless of the rational or sanity of the killer, is terrorism. What we are disagreeing with is whether or not this is part of some global Islamic agenda.

  44. 44
    kairosfocus says:

    GC, you already have more than enough clear indications to see the IslamIST — note the emphatic distinction, Jihad context at work. This op clearly found a very good shooter — a forehead centre hit with a handgun at night in a confused situation and the dead: wounded ratio both point that way — who was vulnerable to shame-honour manipulation and picked a very strategic target that would get attention, highlight polarising issues, sow confusion in the W, harden hostility in the Muslim world, and more. The weak reaction is telling the Jihadi strategists, more like this. Remember, Paris was also intended to hit a stadium with French and German leaders in attendance. I expect malls, churches and parliaments to be hit. Actually, in 1990, Trinidad’s Parliament was hit and held hostage. H’mm Bali was hit as a tourism centre. Schools have been hit. I forget, targets of all of these classes have already been hit. Of course, more nightclubs too. In short, this target fits right in with a widespread literally global pattern. KF

    PS: Terrorism induces compliance when the targetted officials prove incapable of effectively defending their citizens.

  45. 45
    kairosfocus says:

    PPS: Wife, on casing Disney:

    Clip:

    The gunman behind the Orlando nightclub shootings, the deadliest mass shooting in American history, recently scouted Walt Disney World as a potential target, a federal law enforcement source tells PEOPLE.

    Omar Mateen and his wife, Noor Zahi Salman, visited Walt Disney World in April, the source says. Salman told federal authorities on Sunday that her husband had more recently been “scouting Downtown Disney and Pulse [nightclub] for attacks.”

    Unlike the four Disney World theme parks, Downtown Disney, which was recently renamed Disney Springs, doesn’t have security and bag check before entry.

    –> Target shortlisting and prioritising.

  46. 46
    Gordon Cunningham says:

    KF: “PS: Terrorism induces compliance when the targetted officials prove incapable of effectively defending their citizens.”

    No, terrorism wins when they force everyone to give up their freedoms, change their way of life and agree to live in fear. Which is what your proposals guarantee.

    Terrorists are just school yard bullies with access to weapons. You don’t stop bullying by surrounding yourself with bodyguards. If we guard all gay clubs, they will move to churches. If you guard all churches they will move to amusement parks. If you guard all amusement parks they will move to farmers markets. And so on. The bullies and terrorists will just move on to those who can’t afford guards.

    You stop them by starving them of the attention they crave. The attention that you give them with OPs like this. The attention you give them by giving them credit for things for which their involvement is so indirect as to be circumstantial.

    Or, we could simply adopt Byers solution and ban gay bars and parades, etc.

  47. 47
    velikovskys says:

    KF:
    A tense standoff follows. Police say they had to wait three hours to access the situation, get armored vehicles on the scene and make sure they had enough personnel . . . .

    Approximately 5 a.m. ET: Heavily armed SWAT team members use an armored vehicle to smash down a door at the club, clearing the way for some 30 people inside to flee to safety.
    SWAT officers confront the suspect in the doorway, shoot and kill him.
    5:05 a.m. ET: Post on Orlando police Twitter account says loud noise near scene was a “controlled explosion.”

    Yes am aware it took 3 hours to dispatch the killer,however police were on the scene seconds after the mayhem started. Is your point that your civilian marshals could have saved lives by rushing in blindly into a hostage situation?

    > It is obvious that those who incline the same way have a hard time acknowledging that the relevant objective moral principle is the right to life and so also thou shalt not shed innocent blood. Which, no person of mature years needs to be told.

    it is obvious as an abstract general bromide , the subjective moral question is what the definition of ” innocent blood “is. Different objective moral codes have different moralities.

    This too speaks volumes on the agendas we face and on what happens when objectivity of morals is dismissed

    You miss the point, I am saying that there are many objective moral codes based a divine source. Perhaps you mean absolute not objective. But I am open to suggestion, how does one step outside his subjective viewpoint? Divine revelation?

    And ask Israel what it cost and what it would have cost if they did not mobilise and organise for the mutual defense as they have done.

    Ask Israel if anyone can just go buy a high powered gun?

    We are FYI already under fairly constant surveillance, so soon as it is deemed necessary.

    Not by amateurs sitting on the roof with high powered rifleYou don’t see the potential for mischief in all this,KF?

    I have already said what it will take to defeat a 4GW strategy — here, backed by a Trillion dollar value oil patch:

    And the underlying cause remains, once defeated it will rise again. Your solution will spill a lot of ” innocent blood” by the way.

  48. 48
    kairosfocus says:

    VS (attn GC), I suggest that before you further project you actually examine what was said. The issue is a comparative with Garland TX, multiplied by the Israeli response to suicide attacks since 2000 and informed by the long term Swiss experience of a citizen militia. (Where, neither of these may legitimately be termed unfree; but if terrorists, raiders, pirates etc create a sense that the people are helpless apart from compliance with the terrs, that is how they win leading to a cascade of demands. Such often come from more “moderate” advocates in a good cop bad cop pattern — which looks suspiciously like what is now happening.) In the specific case of targets, layered access defense, access way defense and overwatch of large meeting areas is in view, and I went so far as to suggest a specific weapon in a specific calibre: Tavor semiauto with optical sight (red dot etc) and 6.5 mm Grendel. Organised point defense is the exact opposite of rushing in blindly or the like as has been suggested above. This is separate from what actually defeats terrorism, a 4GW strategy: drain the sea and/or overmatch with superior light and special forces . . . including for cyber, agit prop, media, policy influence and lawfare, etc. Such may require attrition based on forcing the terrs to fight for their logistics, degrading their capability through a two-jaw vice. KF

    PS: It is clearly stated by the police timeline that it took 3 hours to have adequate capability in place to respond adequately. All of this is speaking volumes.

    PPS: Cf the way WWI and WW II were won. When a defeated opponent seeks a round 2, the second defeat has to be so convincing that will is broken. With radical Islamism, of course given the involved teachings and the general mis-government in the core areas, it crops up from time to time. It needs to be so decisively defeated when it does that there will be a backing away for several generations. If you doubt me consider the black flag army hadith (and you need to convince the IslamISTS that it is not sufficiently authentic), the use of black flags by today’s IslamISTS, and the Gharqad tree hadith written into the Hamas covenant. Blend in Q 9:5 and 29 i/l/o 1400 years of history, including dhimmitude. The answer to IslamISM is decisive defeat to the point of utter discredit (which drains the sea); which our civilisation seems unwilling to recognise today.

  49. 49
    Gordon Cunningham says:

    KF, I work in the laboratory industry where safety is critical. We consider things like Latex gloves, safety gloves and your despised lab coats to be the absolute worst approach to safety. They are only there in case all of the other tools fail. Your approach to this issue is akin to latex gloves and lab coats.

    The best approach is to remove the hazard. Stop using hydrofluoric acid. Stop using mercury. Stop making assault weapons available to everybody.

    Canada allows citizens to purchase almost every weapon available for purchase in the US. But they put strict requirements on purchasing them. And if you own one, you give the RCMP the authority to enter your house at any time without a warrant to make sure that it is stored securely. If it isn’t, you lose your right to own it.

    The number of mass shootings in the US last year were more than the number of days in the year. Canada had zero. Your insistance that your proposal is the only solution, in spite of plenty of other solutions that appear to work, speaks volumes to your inability to have an open mind.

  50. 50
    Gordon Cunningham says:

    KF, I work in the laboratory industry where safety is critical. We consider things like Latex gloves, safety gloves and your despised lab coats to be the absolute worst approach to safety. They are only there in case all of the other tools fail. Your approach to this issue is akin to latex gloves and lab coats.

    The best approach is to remove the hazard. Stop using hydrofluoric acid. Stop using mercury. Stop making assault weapons available to everybody.

    Canada allows citizens to purchase almost every weapon available for purchase in the US. But they put strict requirements on purchasing them. And if you own one, you give the RCMP the authority to enter your house at any time without a warrant to make sure that it is stored securely. If it isn’t, you lose your right to own it for life.

    The number of mass shootings in the US last year were more than the number of days in the year. Canada had zero. Your insistance that your proposal is the only solution, in spite of plenty of other solutions that appear to work, speaks volumes to your inability to have an open mind.

    UDEitors: “And if you own one, you give the RCMP [i.e., the police] the authority to enter your house at any time without a warrant” Gordon, you say that as if you are advocating for America to repeal both the 2nd and 4th Amendments and become a police state in which the police can bust down your door merely for exercising a constitutional right. How strange. I prefer freedom.

    And you assert there were more than 365 mass shootings in the US last year. Wow, either the media are doing a horrible job and failed to cover all but a couple, or, you just pulled that statistic out of your ass. I’m going with door number 2.

  51. 51
    kairosfocus says:

    GC, poor analogy in the face of 4GW. Paris France was your test of how a gun free 1st world city works in the face of terrs. They smuggled in AKs (readily available globally, most likely coming from fmr Yugoslavia), made homebrew suicide vest bombs, and slaughtered 130, 89 was it in a concert theatre, Bataclan. Similar BTW to Bombay 2008. The issue is, a war is ongoing — Sun Tzu again, we have here a war problem, not a crime problem. Target hardening is one of several measures, but that does not make it unimportant. Note, a disciplined marshal corps under military law would also deal with rogues properly — and this was a rogue, a security officer gone bad, turned traitor. Taking back no go enclaves, going after radicalisation networks, going to the sources and breaking them are also key. As in, decisive defeat. KF

  52. 52
    Gordon Cunningham says:

    KF: “GC, poor analogy in the face of 4GW. Paris France was your test of how a gun free 1st world city works in the face of terrs.”

    Oh, get real. The France attack occurred with strict gun control. And the Orlando one occurred with no gun control. But the one thing we can say with a fairly high level of certainty is that the Orlando attack would likely have been prevented with a Canada level of gun control. So, try pedalling your nonsense to someone with no capacity for rational thought.

  53. 53
    kairosfocus says:

    GC, the evidence is that Orlando was a well planned assassin cult suicide raid that precisely hit on a major ideological fault-line of our day using someone who was apparently a quite technically good shooter; likely someone who was manipulated using his shame-honour cultural and religious background — recall, his father ran for president of Afghanistan. Where it is also likely that he was a victim of so-called “boy play” . . . including that the pattern of reports on his behaviour (wife battering, belligerence, anger sufficient to get him reported as a security guard, drinking in two modes that reveal sullenness and bottled up rage, bisexual behaviours) suggest acting out of inner struggles and failures. Of course, were FL to have the sort of restrictions as in Paris, the exact configuration of attack would not have been feasible. However, Florida has a notorious smuggling problem, so were guns as restricted there as they were in say France, the same solution would have been applied as was done by the Molenbeek cell: smuggling in weapons . . . as I have pointed to repeatedly. AK 47’s would have done just as well, but since this man had a higher level preference (S/S MCX vs AR 15) maybe a variant on the AK 74 or the like. But, the old AK 47 would have done. Similar, for the handgun of choice. And, that inference is simply not “pedalling [sic] . . . nonsense to someone with no capacity for rational thought” — the reaction you just made; the tone of which indicates a subtext of unwarranted contempt. I suggest, again, that you scroll up to the OP and glance at the geostrategic sketch outlining the scope of challenge we face as a civilisation due to renewal of the 1400 year war using 4GW strategies. I further suggest reading a copy of Churchill’s The Gathering Storm, vol I of the 6-volume history of WW II. The pattern of denial about emerging geostrategic threats is history we need to learn from. KF

    PS: Canada has a very different history than the US, which shows a differing pattern of social events; I recall discussions on degree of violence with fists, blunt objects and knives in the US out-stripping total figures for relevant NW European culture countries. Where also the long history of the Swiss militia shows high firearms presence and low incidence of abuse of same, though stochastic rate figures in recent years reflect a few incidents. Societal context and conflicts leading to polarisation and acting out count. As another comparative, the anglophone Caribbean has similar legal system to Canada and generally highly restrictive firearms laws but much higher incidence of violence and firearms involvement in such. Canada is also not a principal target of the IslamISTS as of yet.

  54. 54
    Dionisio says:

    KF

    This has been said many times, but never enough:

    “The heart is deceitful above all things, and desperately sick; who can understand it?” [Jeremiah 17:9 (ESV)]

    Unfortunately there’s no natural remedy for that fatal malady.

    Fortunately. the cure has been graciously offered, but unfortunately it’s naturally rejected as “folly” (1 Corinthians 1:18).

    The solution is in the main two commandments, from where our hearts could draw the guidance to be light and salt in a desperately dying world:

    And behold, a lawyer stood up to put Him to the test, saying, “Teacher, what shall I do to inherit eternal life?” He said to him, “What is written in the Law? How do you read it?” And he answered, “You shall love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your strength and with all your mind, and your neighbor as yourself.” And he said to him, “You have answered correctly; do this, and you will live.”

    But he, desiring to justify himself, said to Jesus, “And who is my neighbor?” Jesus replied, “A man was going down from Jerusalem to Jericho, and he fell among robbers, who stripped him and beat him and departed, leaving him half dead. Now by chance a priest was going down that road, and when he saw him he passed by on the other side. So likewise a Levite, when he came to the place and saw him, passed by on the other side. But a Samaritan, as he journeyed, came to where he was, and when he saw him, he had compassion. He went to him and bound up his wounds, pouring on oil and wine. Then he set him on his own animal and brought him to an inn and took care of him. And the next day he took out two denarii and gave them to the innkeeper, saying, ‘Take care of him, and whatever more you spend, I will repay you when I come back.’ Which of these three, do you think, proved to be a neighbor to the man who fell among the robbers?” He said, “The one who showed him mercy.” And Jesus said to him, “You go, and do likewise.” [Luke 10:25-37 (ESV)]

    In this world the meaning of the word ‘love’ is anything and nothing. We love chocolate. Whatever.
    A very popular musician/singer in the 1970s sang that only his love does it good to him. However, true agape love is about doing good to others, expecting nothing in return, as masterfully defined in 1 Corinthians 13 and clearly manifested in John 3:16.

    We should listen carefully and do accordingly:

    “But I say to you who hear, love your enemies, do good to those who hate you, bless those who curse you, pray for those who abuse you. To one who strikes you on the cheek, offer the other also, and from one who takes away your cloak do not withhold your tunic either. Give to everyone who begs from you, and from one who takes away your goods do not demand them back. And as you wish that others would do to you, do so to them.”. [Luke 6:27-31 (ESV)]

  55. 55
    kairosfocus says:

    F/N: Mohammed said, war is deception. Here is a useful 1400 year war renewal through 4GW strategies vocab:

    http://map.org.ph/memprof/inde.....038;id=418

    • Taqiyya (Shia) or Muda’rat (Sunni): tactical deceit for the purposes of spreading Islam. [4] [5]

    • Kitman: deceit by omission.[6]

    • Tawriya: deceit by ambiguity.[7]

    • Taysir: deceit through facilitation (not having to observe all the tenets of Sharia).[8]

    • Darura: deceit through necessity (to engage in something “Haram” or forbidden).[9]

    • Muruna: the temporary suspension of Sharia in order that Muslim immigrants appear “moderate.” So through the principle of Hijra (Muslim Immigration), the early Muslims are a “red herring” or a Trojan Horse. The Kafir or Kuffar community gets the false sense that the early immigrants are not a threat, at least until the Muslim community has gained strength.[10]

    KF

    PS: A classic definition of lying that used to be in the Wiki article on the subject:

    To lie is to state something with disregard to the truth with the intention that people will accept the statement [ –> I add, or suggestion] as truth . . . . even a true statement can be used to deceive. In this situation, it is the intent of being overall untruthful rather than the truthfulness of any individual statement that is considered the lie . . . . One can state part of the truth out of context, knowing that without complete information, it gives a false impression. Likewise, one can actually state accurate facts, yet deceive with them . . . . One lies by omission when omitting an important fact, deliberately leaving another person with a misconception. Lying by omission includes failures to correct pre-existing misconceptions. Also known as a continuing misrepresentation . . . . A misleading statement is one where there is no outright lie, but still retains the purpose of getting someone to believe in an untruth . . .

  56. 56
    kairosfocus says:

    D, prezactly. KF

  57. 57
    kairosfocus says:

    F/N: VS, as you are harping on against objective morality, let me put on the table exactly what I have been arguing instead of the strawmen I keep seeing:

    >> normally responsive people will at least grudgingly respect the following summary of core, conscience attested morality from the pen of Paul:

    Rom 2:14 For when Gentiles, who do not have the law, by nature do what the law requires, they are a law to themselves, even though they do not have the law. 15 They show that the work of the law is written on their hearts, while their conscience also bears witness, and their conflicting thoughts accuse or even excuse them . . . .

    Rom 13:8 Owe no one anything, except to love each other, for the one who loves another has fulfilled the law. 9 For the commandments, “You shall not commit adultery, You shall not murder, You shall not steal, You shall not covet,” and any other commandment, are summed up in this word: “You shall love your neighbor as yourself.” 10 Love does no wrong [NIV, “harm”] to a neighbor; therefore love is the fulfilling of the law. [ESV]

    Where, John Locke, in grounding modern liberty and what would become democratic self-government of a free people premised on upholding the civil peace of justice, in Ch 2 Sec. 5 of his second treatise on civil Government [c. 1690] cites “the judicious [Anglican canon, Richard] Hooker” from his classic Ecclesiastical Polity of 1594 on, as he explains how the principles of neighbour-love are inscribed in our hearts, becoming evident to the eye of common good sense and reasonableness:

    . . . if I cannot but wish to receive good, even as much at every man’s hands, as any man can wish unto his own soul, how should I look to have any part of my desire herein satisfied, unless myself be careful to satisfy the like desire which is undoubtedly in other men . . . my desire, therefore, to be loved of my equals in Nature, as much as possible may be, imposeth upon me a natural duty of bearing to themward fully the like affection. From which relation of equality between ourselves and them that are as ourselves, what several rules and canons natural reason hath drawn for direction of life no man is ignorant . . . [Hooker then continues, citing Aristotle in The Nicomachean Ethics, Bk 8 and alluding to Justinian’s synthesis of Roman Law in Corpus Juris Civilis that also brings these same thoughts to bear:] as namely, That because we would take no harm, we must therefore do none; That since we would not be in any thing extremely dealt with, we must ourselves avoid all extremity in our dealings; That from all violence and wrong we are utterly to abstain, with such-like . . . ] [Eccl. Polity,preface, Bk I, “ch.” 8, p.80, cf. here. Emphasis added.]

    We may elaborate on Paul, Locke, Hooker and Aristotle, laying out several manifestly evident and historically widely acknowledged core moral principles for which the attempted denial is instantly and patently absurd for most people — that is, they are arguably self-evident (thus, warranted and objective) moral truths; not just optional opinions.

    So also, it is not only possible to

    (a) be in demonstrable moral error, but also

    (b) there is hope that such moral errors can be corrected by appealing to manifestly sound core principles of the natural moral law.

    For instance:

    1] The first self evident moral truth is that we are inescapably under the government of ought.

    (This is manifest in even an objector’s implication in the questions, challenges and arguments that s/he would advance, that we are in the wrong and there is something to be avoided about that. That is, even the objector inadvertently implies that we OUGHT to do, think, aim for and say the right. Not even the hyperskeptical objector can escape this truth. Patent absurdity on attempted denial.)

    2] Second self evident truth, we discern that some things are right and others are wrong by a compass-sense we term conscience which guides our thought. (Again, objectors depend on a sense of guilt/ urgency to be right not wrong on our part to give their points persuasive force. See what would be undermined should conscience be deadened or dismissed universally? Sawing off the branch on which we all must sit.)

    3] Third, were this sense of conscience and linked sense that we can make responsibly free, rational decisions to be a delusion, we would at once descend into a status of grand delusion in which there is no good ground for confidence in our self-understanding. That is, we look at an infinite regress of Plato’s cave worlds: once such a principle of grand global delusion is injected, there is no firewall so the perception of level one delusion is subject to the same issue, and this level two perception too, ad infinitum; landing in patent absurdity.

    4] Fourth, we are objectively under obligation of OUGHT. That is, despite any particular person’s (or group’s or august council’s or majority’s) wishes or claims to the contrary, such obligation credibly holds to moral certainty. That is, it would be irresponsible, foolish and unwise for us to act and try to live otherwise.

    5] Fifth, this cumulative framework of moral government under OUGHT is the basis for the manifest core principles of the natural moral law under which we find ourselves obligated to the right the good, the true etc. Where also, patently, we struggle to live up to what we acknowledge or imply we ought to do.

    6] Sixth, this means we live in a world in which being under core, generally understood principles of natural moral law is coherent and factually adequate, thus calling for a world-understanding in which OUGHT is properly grounded at root level. (Thus worldviews that can soundly meet this test are the only truly viable ones. if a worldview does not have in it a world-root level IS that can simultaneously ground OUGHT, it fails decisively.*)

    7] Seventh, in light of the above, even the weakest and most voiceless of us thus has a natural right to life, liberty, the pursuit of fulfillment of one’s sense of what s/he ought to be (“happiness”). This includes the young child, the unborn and more. (We see here the concept that rights are binding moral expectations of others to provide respect in regards to us because of our inherent status as human beings, members of the community of valuable neighbours. Where also who is my neighbour was forever answered by the parable of the Good Samaritan. Likewise, there can be no right to demand of or compel my neighbour that s/he upholds me and enables me in the wrong — including under false colour of law through lawfare. To justly claim a right, one must first be in the right.)

    8] Eighth, like unto the seventh, such may only be circumscribed or limited for good cause. Such as, reciprocal obligation to cherish and not harm neighbour of equal, equally valuable nature in community and in the wider world of the common brotherhood of humanity.

    9] Ninth, this is the context in which it becomes self evidently wrong, wicked and evil to kidnap, sexually torture and murder a young child or the like as concrete cases in point that show that might and/or manipulation do not make ‘right,’ ‘truth,’ ‘worth,’ ‘justice,’ ‘fairness,’ ‘law’ etc. That is, anything that expresses or implies the nihilist’s credo is morally absurd.

    10] Tenth, this entails that in civil society with government, justice is a principal task of legitimate government. In short, nihilistic will to power untempered by the primacy of justice is its own refutation in any type of state. Where, justice is the due balance of rights, freedoms and responsibilities. Thus also,

    11] Eleventh, that government is and ought to be subject to audit, reformation and if necessary replacement should it fail sufficiently badly and incorrigibly.

    (NB: This is a requisite of accountability for justice, and the suggestion or implication of some views across time, that government can reasonably be unaccountable to the governed, is its own refutation, reflecting — again — nihilistic will to power; which is automatically absurd. This truth involves the issue that finite, fallible, morally struggling men acting as civil authorities in the face of changing times and situations as well as in the face of the tendency of power to corrupt, need to be open to remonstrance and reformation — or if they become resistant to reasonable appeal, there must be effective means of replacement. Hence, the principle that the general election is an insitutionalised regular solemn assembly of the people for audit and reform or if needs be replacement of government gone bad. But this is by no means an endorsement of the notion that a manipulated mob bent on a march of folly has a right to do as it pleases.)

    12] Twelfth, the attempt to deny or dismiss such a general framework of moral governance invariably lands in shipwreck of incoherence and absurdity. As, has been seen in outline. But that does not mean that the attempt is not going to be made, so there is a mutual obligation of frank and fair correction and restraint of evil.
    _________________

    * F/N: After centuries of debates and assessment of alternatives per comparative difficulties, there is in fact just one serious candidate to be such a grounding IS: the inherently good creator God, a necessary and maximally great being worthy of ultimate loyalty and the reasonable responsible service of doing the good in accord with our manifestly evident nature. (And instantly, such generic ethical theism answers also to the accusation oh this is “religion”; that term being used as a dirty word — no, this is philosophy. If you doubt this, simply put forth a different candidate that meets the required criteria and passes the comparative difficulties test: _________ . Likewise, an inherently good, maximally great being will not be arbitrary or deceitful etc, that is why such is fully worthy of ultimate loyalty and the reasonable, responsible service of doing the good in accord with our manifestly evident nature. As a serious candidate necessary being, such would be eternal and embedded in the frame for a world to exist at all. Thus such a candidate is either impossible as a square circle is impossible due to mutual ruin of core characteristics, or else it is actual. For simple instance no world is possible without two-ness in it, a necessary basis for distinct identity inter alia.

    No, this is not arbitrary perceived divine orders blindly followed. And indeed, in the Mosaic corpus, one of the principles is that the commands given are for your collective good. As cited Paul points to moral reasoning as a gift from God our creator. Locke and Hooker employ reasoning, the latter amplifying his point from a famed pagan philosopher, with hints of the synthesis of 1,000 years of Roman Law in Corpus Juris. And I am making an argument on comparative difficulties i/l/o the premise of reason.

    In short the caricature of blind, stupid indoctrinated destructive theocrats simply does not fit the facts of generic ethical theism, and those of the Judaeo-Christian tradition. (Not that failure to be accurate has ever dissuaded those who disregard truthfulness in their points scoring rhetorical stratagems.)

    I put you on notice and expect you to respond seriously and responsibly to facts and logic.

    KF

  58. 58
    kairosfocus says:

    F/N: Further update, Facebook messages:

    http://edition.cnn.com/2016/06.....index.html

    Mateen also vented on Facebook before and during the massacre.

    “America and Russia stop bombing the Islamic state,” the gunman wrote, according to the chairman of the Senate Committee on Homeland Security and Governmental Affairs.
    “You kill innocent women and children by doing us airstrikes … now taste the Islamic state vengeance.”

    Then, in his final post, an ominous warning: ”In the next few days you will see attacks from the Islamic state in the usa. . . . .

    In the middle of killing 49 people, Mateen also called 911 to pledge allegiance to the terror group and CNN affiliate News 13 to say, “I did it for ISIS. I did it for the Islamic State.”

    And an analysis of Mateen’s electronic devices showed searches for jihadist propaganda, including videos of ISIS beheadings, an official said.

    Motives.

    KF

  59. 59
    kairosfocus says:

    F/N: Notice, how the initial evidence that pointed to IslamIST terrorism has now been again reinforced and substantiated.

    By, information from Facebook and other sources that we can readily see as instantly accessible to relevant authorities long before they put out their first narratives.

    So it becomes clear that the relevant figures clearly chose to switch subjects and try to construct a strawman narrative that would better fit their policy agendas.

    Yes, the shooter was a non performing son of a dominant father who was severely disappointed with his struggles with basic learning and discipline. As from Afghan culture and of a family sufficiently eminent to have a father contemplating presidency of Afghanistan, he was likely angry, would have ready models of violence and could easily gain a will to power view of morality and dealings with others. Yes, we cannot rule out sexual abuse through so called boy play and resulting sexual confusion. Yes, he was what too many men are, a woman beater. Drink leading to sullen drunkenness or in other modes belligerence, and being generally angry, demonstrative and vocal fit right in.

    All of these simply feed into why he would have been at risk of recruitment for an act of supreme honour to wipe the slate clean of 29 years of shame to himself and family, putting him on the list of mujaheddin-martyrs [oh, how that name has been twisted!] welcomed to paradise by 72 virgins just waiting to provide eternal delights.

    What we need to address is why it is, in the teeth of Sun Tzu’s advice, we seem insistent on not understanding ourselves and our determined enemies. Not to mention the patterns of strategies, operations and tactics they have resorted to for 1400 years.

    I again highlight Sun Tzu:

    If you know the enemy and know yourself, you need not fear the result of a hundred battles. If you know yourself but not the enemy, for every victory gained you will also suffer a defeat. If you know neither the enemy nor yourself, you will succumb in every battle.

    KF

  60. 60
    kairosfocus says:

    F/N: Blazing Cat Fur responds, citing Mark Steyn:

    Can it really be true that Donald Trump is taking heat for referring to Islamic terrorism, when 50 people are dead at the hands of someone who was explicitly targeting them because they are gay, in the name of Islam? And other politicians are dancing around the point?

    Anyway, {an American] Friend wrote back to say,

    It’s hard to see how it hasn’t already. Clinton wouldn’t utter the words “Islamic terrorism.” This insults Americans who are routinely insulted (and belittled) by the left. No one could foresee this attack and yet Trump looks prescient, not because he’s a seer but because he speaks honestly. This doubles back to his destroying the prison of political correctness, without which American media are powerless. Trump calls them scum and they don’t care but neutralizing their power by destroying political correctness is crime for which they’ll never forgive him.

    Yes. Many media made it all about gun control. Gun control may reduce mass murder among the less motivated, but the Islamist is highly motivated (yet such media can’t admit that the murderer’s affiliation is his central motivator).

    Or their big worry now is not more attacks but Islamophobia (as if the inability to have honest discussions doesn’t fuel the suspicion). Or else everyday homophobia, as if this kind of thing is normal.

    Who do they think their avoidance and denial are helping?

    Reality check: Mark Steyn thinks that civilizations can become just too stupid to survive.

    Steyn himself:

    the consolations are few:

    A Muslim of Afghan heritage guns down 49 gays in a nightclub, and the ACLU tells us it’s the fault of the Christian right. We are being told up is down, the sky is the earth, black is white…

    I began by noting some of the differences between the international headlines (heavy on ISIS and terror) and the US headlines (heavy on “hate” and “domestic extremism”). As Chris Pandolfo reported at Conservative Review:

    Mark Steyn… said that the “official lie” of the Left is that gun-toting “right” wing extremists are responsible for the shooting and radical Islamic terrorism is not… The Left doesn’t know how to cope with the “internal contradictions of the rainbow coalition.”

    Sun Tzu, again:

    If you know the enemy and know yourself, you need not fear the result of a hundred battles. If you know yourself but not the enemy, for every victory gained you will also suffer a defeat. If you know neither the enemy nor yourself, you will succumb in every battle.

    KF

  61. 61
    kairosfocus says:

    U/D: House transfer for $ 10 witnessed by wife, 2 months before the attack:

    Paul Sperry at CounterJihad unveils a public record showing Omar Mateen gave his house to his sister and Afghan-born brother-in-law virtually for free — with his wife Noor Salman as a witness — two months before he slaughtered dozens of gay clubgoers in Orlando, Florida.

    From CounterJihad:

    Several weeks before he massacred 49 at an Orlando gay nightclub, Muslim terrorist Omar Seddique Mateen transferred over his interest in his Florida home to his older sister and Afghan brother-in-law, property records show — an indication the family possibly had some knowledge of his martyrdom plans . . . .

    On April 5, Mateen “quit-claimed” the deed on his Port St. Lucie, Fla., house, signing it over to his sister, Sabrina Abasin, and his brother-in-law Mustafa Abasin for just $10 according to county property records. The records list his wife Noor Salman as a witness in the curious real estate transaction.

    (The doc is shown.)

    KF

  62. 62
    kairosfocus says:

    F/N: Matt Barber’s recent observation should give us pause:

    An Islamic terrorist (a closeted homosexual, according to friends and ex-wife), registered Democrat and admitted Islamic State jihadi enters a “gay” bar wherein, reportedly, he regularly cruised for random homosexual hook-ups, and slaughters 49 “infidels.”

    Naturally, secular “progressives,” to include the New York Times editorial board, have, rather than addressing the Allahu Akbar-yelping camel in the tent, twisted themselves into tiny little knots of self-righteous indignation to somehow blame American Christians, Republicans and the NRA . . .

    Food for thought — though rather roughly packaged.

    KF

  63. 63
    kairosfocus says:

    F.N: Notice, how — now that more and more info is emerging on the terr’s islamIST motivation and that some clearly indicates authorities should have known from the outset — there is by and large an absence of walking back/ being accountable over and transparent about the uwarranted projections and accusations? And of course the attempt to exploit the issue to push agendas while studiously failing to face the issue of the 1400 year war, continues. Sun Tsu’s principle warns us that such will not end well. KF

  64. 64

    The tragedy-laced good news here is that the LGBT community seems to have woken up from its poplitical stupor concerning immigration and international policy, and wrt Hillary Clinton and the Clinton Foundation.

    LGBT gun purchases and membership in conservative political groups is skyrocketing. They’re figuring out who really wants to protect the freedoms and rights that keep them safer than virtually any other country in the world, even if those groups disagree with those lifestyle choices.

    The Clinton Foundation has taken millions of dollars from countries that execute gays as a matter of public policy by throwing them off of buildings. Hillary wants to import millions more from countries that consider women second-class citizens and consider violence against LGBT’s a moral necessity.

    Islamic culture is, for the most part, utterly incompatible with liberal western democracy. 51% of American Muslims believe that Sharia should be the law of the land.

    Perhaps the feminists and special snowflake college activists will wake up next and realize it is their own heads they are putting on the chopping block – literally – if they keep electing people like Obama and Clinton.

  65. 65
    Dionisio says:

    KF

    This world is in Sun Tsu’s case 3, isn’t it?

    Definitely it ain’t look good.

    Only entry door to external security is to fully surrender to the One Who inspired Handel’s most monumental composition. But soon it will be too late for that.
    The door will be shutdown at the end of this age of grace.
    No one knows when that will happen.

  66. 66
    kairosfocus says:

    D, there was once a man in agony on a cross, suffering judicial murder, but crying out in prayer: Father, forgive them, for they know not what they do. Case 3 on steroids, 2 Thes 2: 11 God sends them a strong delusion, so that they may believe what is false . . . [those] who did not believe the truth but had pleasure in unrighteousness. It is a terrible thing to resist the truth and embrace iniquity; if you refuse the judgement of consequences in a morally governed world, if you then fight down and drown out the voices that bring the judgement of correction, then with the cup of your collective iniquity full and over-flowing there remains only the judgement of destruction to contain and remove a tainting plague from the earth. KF

  67. 67
    kairosfocus says:

    WJM,

    It seems to me that there is a dominant narrative that the civilisation formerly known as Christendom is what is primarily wrong with the world, and that it is that heritage that is the root of bitterness.

    So, we see a red- double green de facto alliance (including the rainbow coalition under the reds) that has steadfastly worked to remove what they perceive as the root of bitterness. (This case, BTW, is one where we had green on rainbow attack . . . maybe a gun was jumped, maybe it is judged time to move in for the kill. But the red side is trying to spin it as the old familiar Christendom is the problem to be uprooted, narrative.)

    However, those who see the world this way have failed to understand that democracy failed in the classical world, republicanism failed, leaving messianic dictatorial empire — or, have we forgotten why Octavian was hailed as a divine rescuer and called Augustus . . . written into our calendar?

    Failed, due to inherent instabilities.

    In that context, they did not realise that the Judaeo Christian tradition and linked natural law provided key stabilising buttresses for modern democracy. Now that these are being chopped and burned away in implacable rage, the inherent instability is going to tell again.

    And with the intensity of polarisation at work, I have very little confidence that we can return to sanity before things crash and burn very badly.

    I hear you that some are buying guns to try to defend themselves, but that is hardly likely to be for when they go to nightclub or the like.

    As for, oh they go to conservatives, the problem is “conservative” and even in many cases “church” does not mean what it once would have.

    I fear, factions are arming for civil war and defending themselves in the face of chaos. With the “zombie” meme a thinly veiled reference to rampaging mobs.

    Instead, I have suggested modifying the Swiss model and developing a pervasive civilian but disciplined marshal corps that would harden soft targets and release police for taking back the enclaves. (And beyond, the Marines — likely, joint — would take out the sources where amphibious expeditions become necessary. The Barbary coast wars are full of lessons on that.)

    I suggest it, not because I think it is likely, but as a witness that there was a reasonable, feasible alternative refused.

    I am pessimistic about our civilisation.

    We have played the fool and have wandered out far along a dividing watershed, so that we are now being wedged apart faster and faster down mutually opposed slippery slopes.

    Absent miraculous rescue (and if you have been led to imagine Mr Trump is a political messiah . . . ), this will not end well.

    KF

    PS: To truly understand what we deal with, learn what is done to virgin girls the night before their execution in Iran (usually on some dubious charge), as there is a cultural belief virgins go to paradise and also a consequent provision of law that forbids the execution of a virgin; let us just note they are reduced to helpless desperate screaming and catatonia. Girls down to 10 years are clearly documented. Then, to twist the knife in the wounded hearts of parents, boxes of sweets — a traditional present — are sent to their families.

  68. 68
    kairosfocus says:

    F/N; Real clear Politics, here:

    In an interview with NBC’s Chuck Todd, Attorney General Loretta Lynch says that on Monday, the FBI will release edited transcripts of the 911 calls made by the Orlando nightclub shooter to the police during his rampage.

    “What we’re not going to do is further proclaim this man’s pledges of allegiance to terrorist groups, and further his propaganda,” Lynch said. “We are not going to hear him make his assertions of allegiance [to the Islamic State]” . . .

    KF

  69. 69
    kairosfocus says:

    F/N: Georgia state representative and former US Navy pilot Dave Belton writes on defeating IslamIST terrorism:

    . . . 9/11 was caused by a group of radical Islamic terrorists who did not employ guns, yet killed thousands of people. For a very short time our nation rallied together, denouncing those thugs for the barbarians they were. Democrats and Republicans voted together to authorize a war both on Afghanistan and, then, Iraq.

    We hunted down Al Qaeda in a military campaign that kept the U.S. terror-free until President Obama pulled our troops out of Iraq. That act – a retreat that our military advisors warned against – was the birth of ISIS, the “JV Team” that has brought terror to America again.

    Two days after the President claimed that ISIS was contained, terrorists gunned down scores in Paris. A few days after Orlando, the President claims that we were winning the war against ISIS. Yet just two days later the CIA Chief directly refuted him, saying that ISIS was better poised to attack us now than ever before.

    To deflect their failure, the Left blames the NRA for Orlando. That is absurd. The killer yelled “Allah Akbar!” and posted on Facebook dozens of times during the massacre to make sure everyone on the planet understood that he was committing his atrocities on behalf of Islam. He sought out a LGBT night club because ISIS routinely murders every LGBT person they come across. That is a well-documented fact. It is also a fact – and sad irony – that in the 1970’s when Iran deposed the Shah, the Iranian LGBT community vigorously supported Ayatollah Khomeini’s revolution.

    Guess what happened when he got in power? Khomeini jailed and murdered those same LGBT members. If any group in the West should fear radical Islam, it is the LGBT community.

    Gun-control advocates believe we could stop this violence by making guns illegal. Yet France and Spain and Belgium and England have far more strict gun laws than we do – so does Chicago for that matter — yet it didn’t stop those attacks. Somehow the “bad guys” always find a way to kill people.

    Nearly all mass shooting events happen in “safe zones” where guns are prohibited. Why? Because the criminal — who doesn’t have a problem with getting guns illegally – knows he is “safe” from being shot by law-abiding citizens. The “safe zone” creates a “safe” environment for the shooter. The Left wants us to put our trust in the government, yet that same government clearly failed when they mistakenly took the murderer off the terror list. It is exactly because the government is so inept that law abiding citizens must arm themselves.

    Radical Islamic terrorists have been waging war against America since days of the Barbary pirates. Trying to figure out a way to negotiate with these slavers, President Thomas Jefferson read the entire Koran to help understand their motivations. This is what he wrote: “It was written in their Koran, that all nations who should not have acknowledged their authority are sinners that it is their right and duty to make war upon them wherever they could be found, and to make slaves of all they could take as Prisoners.” He eventually ordered the Marines to storm Tripoli in a battle that is famously memorialized by the Marine’s Hymn’s “From the halls of Montezuma, to the shores of Tripoli.”

    Some of you might think I’m drudging up useless history. But consider this: the high-water mark of Islamic expansion occurred in 1683. A vast Muslim army was about to accomplish something they’d been trying to do for centuries; conquer the jewel of Europe – Vienna. The invaders bombed out a part of the wall and were ready to storm the Austrian capital when a Polish king came to the rescue, smashing the invaders in the largest cavalry charge in history . . .

    Further food for thought.

    KF

  70. 70

    A must read: Obama’s denial of the religious nature of the war that Islamic radicals have declared on America is why we are losing the war.

    Excerpt:

    According to a Gallup poll taken in the week after the atrocity in Orlando, only 29% of Democrats thought this was an Islamic terror attack. Fully 60% of all Democrats attributed the attack to “domestic gun violence.” Moreover 42% of independents felt the same way. Only 44% attributed it to the Islamic holy war that has been declared on America and the West.[1]

    How is this possible? During the massacre, the terrorist himself took pains to post messages declaring that his acts were acts of Islamic terror against America. “Now taste the Islamic state vengeance,” one message sadi. Another warned, “in the next few days you will see attacks from the Islamic state in the USA.”[2] Moreover, in the days following the attack a dossier of his behavior and associations going back more than fifteen years showed that he saw himself as a warrior for Islam and a jihadist in the making. The FBI had interviewed him twice – once in 2013 after co-workers reported that he made “inflammatory” comments to them about radical Islamic propaganda, and the following year because of ties with a fellow Muslim who traveled to Syria to become a suicide bomber.

    ……….

    In this we have a microcosm of why all eight domestic terror attacks on Obama’s watch – beginning with the Fort Hood massacre and the Boston Marathon bombing – were carried out by individuals on the FBI’s radar who could have been stopped if the early warning signs of their commitments to the Islamic jihad hadn’t been dismissed.

    Of course, it is the a priori commitment to a particular worldview that generated the rampant denialism necessary for this kind of self-immolating willful ignorance. People would rather believe the absurd than accept that their ideological counterparts are right about anything.

  71. 71
    kairosfocus says:

    F/N: censored transcript:

    Orlando Police Dispatcher (OD)
    Shooter (OM)

    OD: Emergency 911, this is being recorded.

    OM: In the name of God [–> actually, Allah] the Merciful, the beneficial [in Arabic]

    OD: What?

    OM: Praise be to God [–> actually, Allah], and prayers as well as peace be upon the prophet of God [–> actually, Allah] [in Arabic]. I let you know, I’m in Orlando and I did the shootings.

    OD: What’s your name?

    OM: My name is I pledge of allegiance to [omitted] [–> Isis and/or the Caliph].

    OD: Ok, What’s your name?

    OM: I pledge allegiance to [omitted] [–> Caliph al Baghdadi] may God [–> actually, Allah] protect him [in Arabic], on behalf of [omitted].

    KF

  72. 72
    kairosfocus says:

    WJM, The censored and substituted transcript speaks volumes on the accuracy of the concerns in the clip you cited. And, on how we are being willfully manipulated, divided, confused and polarised. The ghost of Sun Tsu is shaking his head. KF

    PS: Some sobering reading on the sort of polarisation that has been at work.

  73. 73
    kairosfocus says:

    F/N: Strategy Page, on “Counter-Terrorism: Ignoring The Obvious” . . . an indicator of the ways public opinion is now routinely manipulated (with direct implications for how origins linked issues and policy are manipulated, thus what we are up against):

    June 21, 2016: In the aftermath of the June 12 th Islamic terror attack in Orlando Florida by an American Moslem there have been calls for new security measures to prevent repeat attacks. Demands that gun ownership be more strictly regulated ignores the fact that this has not prevented earlier similar Islamic terrors attacks in the United States, Europe and other areas with strict gun controls. The one method that has been proven to work is dismissed in the United States because it involves adopting the Israeli system of profiling. This means Moslems get more attention and those displaying pro-terrorist attitudes are regularly prevented from carrying out attacks. It works for Israeli airports, government facilities and places that have dancing and alcohol, something Islamic terrorists regularly attack even in majority Moslem countries. Another problem in the United States and the West is that profiling is either not allowed or not used in screening those applying for security jobs or joining the military. Thus the Moslem man who carried out the Orlando attack was subsequently found to have passed screening for an airport security job and recent warnings (to the FBI) from gun shop owners who noted his suspicious behavior were not acted on. This refusal to recognize the obvious continues . . .

    In short, the narrative and its agenda are imposed and drummed in over and over again, regardless of where the patent truth lies.

    That we go along with such behaviour in our media and among policy leaders and pundits speaks volumes, and not in our favour.

    Sun Tzu’s maxim speaks yet again to us: “If you know the enemy and know yourself, you need not fear the result of a hundred battles. If you know yourself but not the enemy, for every victory gained you will also suffer a defeat. If you know neither the enemy nor yourself, you will succumb in every battle.”

    And it tells us, we may be dealing with a de facto “the enemy of my enemy is my ally” situation: the red, double green network (including the homosexualist rainbow under the red factions), with the common perceived enemy being Christendom and whatever is left of its legacy; viewed as the root of ills in the world.

    A most ill advised notion.

    But it explains a vast array of patterns better than anything else I can put forward.

    For instance, effectively target hardening, hitting the enclaves, breaking influence networks, identifying and addressing sources of radicalisation and/or infiltration, then going after state sponsors seems to require working with those who represent that despised heritage. So we see instead distractions, distortions, emotive manipulation, ineffectual feel better measures (that conveniently target remnants of Christendom) and more.

    Kulturkampf trending open civil wars.

    This will not end well.

    KF

    PS: I think I should add a perhaps painful note, though it is not offered with animosity but to call to good sense. I caught a CNN TV interview with a senator yesterday where she spoke of how 58,000 Americans were killed in Vietnam and 300,000 die by firearms per decade in the US. My instant thought is, 50+ millions die by abortion per year globally, about 1 – 1.5 million of them in the US. Also it seems the numbers of cases where people are saved by firearms (usually just by brandishing) is likely 800,000 or more, with actually relevant homicides about 10,000 with typically 200 by rifles of all kinds. (Where, it is worth noting that an actual sturm gewehr, assault rifle — so named by Adolph Schicklegruber starting with the MP 44 — is a selective fire, intermediate power round with 300 – 500 m effective range, high capacity rifle, of a type that was never accessible to civilians. That intermediate power cartridge was important to gain control on full auto fire, one pull, bullets fire until released or empty. This makes similar semiauto rifles useful and handy with minimal recoil so that 8 – 10 year old slender girls routinely fire them at targets.) So, unless we see a responsiveness to the abortion holocaust, we are entitled to be doubtful about any appeal to life. And until we see a reasonable balance on how firearms are legitimately protective, we are entitled to view the oh let’s get guns out of the hands of the lawful — the lawless will ALWAYS get guns — and let’s soften the targets as patently irrational and even absurd or cynically manipulative or both.

  74. 74
    daveS says:

    KF,

    The one method that has been proven to work is dismissed in the United States because it involves adopting the Israeli system of profiling. This means Moslems get more attention and those displaying pro-terrorist attitudes are regularly prevented from carrying out attacks.

    Are you saying we should treat people who “look Muslim” differently at airports, for example?

  75. 75

    daveS:

    Can you not read? What part of “This means Moslems get more attention and those displaying pro-terrorist attitudes are regularly prevented from carrying out attacks” refers at all to “how people look”?

  76. 76
    daveS says:

    WJM,

    Yes, I can read.

    How do the TSA agents etc., distinguish Muslims from non-Muslims?

  77. 77

    They KNEW the Orlando shooter was a radicalized Muslim; they KNEW his father was a radical muslim. Several people including fellow muslims had reported him for various warning signs and statements . And yet the FBI let this guy go on a killing spree.

    If anything, the Obama administration should be raking the FBI over the coals for this incredible failure … but what is the Obama administration and what are leading Democrats focused on? Further disarming an already at-risk citizenry and letting even more unvetted refugees and immigrants into the country from anti-American regions of the world, like the shooter’s father.

  78. 78
    mike1962 says:

    Are you saying we should treat people who “look Muslim” differently at airports, for example?

    Yes. Among other things. They require more scrutiny. Israel has mastered the technique of interview.

    We need to do what Israel does.

    Personal feelings and emotions are irrelevant.

    Profiling works. Profiling saves lives.

  79. 79
    daveS says:

    WJM,

    I’m asking about whether Muslims at US airports should be treated differently than non-Muslims, and specifically how Muslims are supposed to be identified.

  80. 80
    daveS says:

    mike1962,

    Thanks for answering.

  81. 81

    daveS said:

    How do the TSA agents etc., distinguish Muslims from non-Muslims?

    Muslims should get more attention from our intelligence agencies, daveS. If said intelligence indicates that certain muslims display pro-terrorist attitudes or travel and visitation habits – like the Orlando shooter did – they should be flagged and they can send such reports along with warnings and pictures to the TSA and other appropriate organizations.

  82. 82
    daveS says:

    WJM,

    Muslims should get more attention from our intelligence agencies, daveS.

    Edited:

    Just to be clear, should all Muslims, not just those who have been identified as dangerous by intelligence agencies, be treated differently at US airports?

  83. 83
    mike1962 says:

    daves: Thanks for answering.

    You bet.

  84. 84
    mike1962 says:

    daves: Just to be clear, should all Muslims, not just those who have been identified as dangerous by intelligence agencies, be treated differently at US airports?

    Of course… if you’re interested in saving lives. Because there is a much higher probability of terrorist potential from that group. It’s a simple matter of statistics. Your average lilly white protestant grandmother from the midwest wearing her Bermuda shorts is a non-threat and statistically never will be. (Check her purse for a gun and a switchblade just to make sure.)

    Sorry if you don’t like it, but emotions don’t count.

    Profiling works. Profiling saves lives.

  85. 85
    kairosfocus says:

    DS, I recall how visa applications to the US in the days when I bothered with such routinely asked about Nazi/Communist affiliation and the like; under penalty of law. On the strength of the 1400 year war and its continuation to today, on the strength of a cluster of known active subversive and terrorist movements, on the strength of the various captured documents, on the strength of a horrific track record closer scrutiny of Muslims in general and those with links to radical islamISTS in particular is warranted. Start with, 15 of 19 9/11 attackers were radicalised Muslims from Saudi Arabia, as was Bin Laden himself. Proceed to the global set of Mosques, schools etc funded through north of US$ 100 billions in Saudi oil money spent on the Dawah, which should be monitored. I gather, 70% of Mosques in the US are deemed radicalised, and the one this latest attacker was affiliated with already has had a member become a suicide bomber. Ideology is not race, and appearance or dress is not race. I suggest that these institutions and the people associated with them need to be reasonably vetted, and as the Israelis do with El Al flights, careful scrutiny pays off. Responsible Muslims — the majority — understand. Life, innocent life, is on the line. KF

  86. 86
    daveS says:

    KF,

    Do you therefore agree with the proposal that all people who look Muslim should be treated differently than those who don’t at US airports?

  87. 87
    kairosfocus says:

    DS, I said ideology is not an appearance or a race. Having noted such, people who have reasonable indications that would flag as significantly above background risk for IslamIST radicalisation should be targetted for responsible, discreet additional scrutiny. In the relevant cases such as Maj Hassan, the San Bernardino, the Boston and now the Orlando attacks, significant indicators were suppressed or ignored. Sometimes, outright warnings. A review is indicated as something is not working. KF

  88. 88
    daveS says:

    KF,

    DS, I said ideology is not an appearance or a race. Having noted such, people who have reasonable indications that would flag as significantly above background risk for IslamIST radicalisation should be targetted for responsible, discreet additional scrutiny. In the relevant cases such as Maj Hassan, the San Bernardino, the Boston and now the Orlando attacks, significant indicators were suppressed or ignored. Sometimes, outright warnings. A review is indicated as something is not working. KF

    Thanks. I take it you are not in favor of treating those who simply appear to be Muslim any differently than others.

  89. 89
    kairosfocus says:

    DS, I am in favour of recognising the flare up of the 1400 year war and of acting in accord with Sun Tsu’s advice. I am therefore in agreement with proper policing and counter-intel on the sources and networks of such. Where, I note that Richard Reid, the shoe bomber was a son of of Jamaican and British parents. Owen (IIRC) was another Jamaican, one of the 7/7 suicide bombers. The Imam gaoled for sedition and deported to Jamaica from the UK was, again, Jamaican. El Shukrijumah was/is Trini-Guyanese. The people tried for the NY Airport bombing were similar, but of Afro-Caribbean descent. The underwear bomber was Nigerian. Boko Haram (now an ISIS affiliate) is mostly same. There is a Chinese minority. Indonesians have been involved. Somalis count. Algerians are involved and those are Berber-Arab. One of the SB attackers was Pakistani. The Boston bombers were Chechin. The latest, Afghani. White Europeans have been involved, as well as white Americans. I may have missed a Hispanic or two. What is consistent is radicalised Islam and the key loci are online, interpersonal networks, Mosques that are radicalised, and certain magnet states. These point to counter-intel and special ops. As well as target hardening, addressing enclaves and agents of influence, then on serious attacks going after the source nests. Historically, the Barbary coast and the Assassin cult were only broken when that was done. Also, it may well be time to so seriously challenge radicalised Islam and associated IslamISTS in the information battlespace that they dare not hold up their heads, being utterly shamed in an honor-shame culture. KF

  90. 90
    mike1962 says:

    daves: I take it you are not in favor of treating those who simply appear to be Muslim any differently than others.

    What are you, some kind of idiot? Most people take everything about a person into consideration. Humans profile by nature. We can’t help it. Even you, I’m sure, unless you’re blind and deaf.

    Profiling is good. It saves lives.

    It’s probably your own ass a time or two.

    Are you really this PC wack job you are trying to present yourself to be? Against even your own best interests?

    Believe me, nobody is fooled.

    Grow up.

  91. 91
    daveS says:

    mike1962,

    Are you from the US?

    Many of us, and not just “PC wack jobs” have concerns with religious profiling. For one thing, is it even legal under our system? Pulling aside people at a security checkpoint who have already been identified as potentially dangerous is one thing; doing the same to every man wearing a taqiyah is another.

  92. 92
    kairosfocus says:

    DS, ideology which motivates violence is not quite the same as religion. Though, in this case IslamISM is religiously motivated and IslamISTS like to hide as Mao’s fish in the people-seas of (a) Muslims and (b) racial minorities. It is also not a race as I pointed out by listing examples yesterday. This is a case where we need to recognise parallels to Fascism and to Communism as threats — and it was moderate Muslims in Algeria who coined the apt term for these politically messianistic, too often nihilistically violent extremists, Islamofascism. Where, too, in the specific case in view a forest of red flags was missed because of the fish in sea problem; as has repeatedly happened. The point is, socially, radicalisation depends on networks, and monitoring and dealing with the networks is key — lone wolf, by and large, is a misnomer. Thus, the power of agents of influence that play PC games with responding to red flags that clearly heighten risk, will have to be broken; this will inevitably implicate many who have been co-opted in power centres of our civilisation, who will resist (but cancers require radical treatment, esp. if they are at metastasis stage of propagating colonies here and there). And the civilisation – settlement jihad strategy in the The Explanatory Memorandum Muslim Brotherhood captured document in large part pivots on front groups and agents of influence (networks, again). A second, operational key used by the Israelis, is that a person engaging in an assassin-cult like attack (recall, that word comes from the historic cult and its use of hashish . . . a very strong form of “ganja” aka marijuana etc . . . to trigger mental states in which suicide attacks were carried out) is doing something profoundly existential and will as a rule radiate emotional cues that self-flag, so people need to learn to respond to such cues. BTW, taqiyya means strategic/ tactical deception (shia version — cf. 55 above); I think it is a term describing the Arafat-style headscarf you were looking for, keffiyeh IIRC. KF

    PS: On the gun control talking point and sit-in stuff, what level of control or confiscation would work to block attacks like this or as in Paris or Bombay? Given, effective gun confiscation in those places? And, frankly, with what 80 – 100 million owners with 300+ million guns in the USA, with a significant fraction (for cause, per a long sad history) convinced confiscation is a gateway to tyranny [think April 19, 1775], it looks to me like people are playing with triggering a 4th generation civil war on very ugly rules of engagement; in the face of already troubling signs. It seems to me that much of what is going on is unsustainable marches of folly along a cultural watershed with slip-sliding down mutually polarised slippery slopes already underway. This does not look like ending well. Can our civilisation wake up in time to avert ruin?

  93. 93

    daveS @82:

    No. You should perhaps try to understand that “profiling” contains more criteria than simply race, ethnicity or apparent religion. How, surely you realize that if a TSA agent has pictures of perhaps 50 dark-complexioned radical jihadist men who almost always dress in traditional garb on their no-fly list, the first thing they should look for in a busy airport with lots of people waiting in line is … matching dark skin and traditional garb.

    You don’t have a problem with that, do you? That in that circumstance you give special attention to dark complexioned men in traditional muslim dress so you can see if they look like the men in your no-fly photographs? Not that they have to actually pull the guy aside or into a room, but just get a good look at their face, right?

    Or, would you prefer that they give equal attention to grey-haired old chinese women and middle-aged black men with no facial hair and in business suits?

    I would assume that if we had shaved-head neo-nazi terrorists on the no-fly list, we would also give special attention to bald caucasians, especially those with tattoos. Or, if we’re looking for russian mobsters, we’d target white guys coming out of russia or eastern europe with certain kinds of accents and probably wearing business suits. Etc.

    Profiling is a useful technique, daveS. It is only those that wish to cause America harm and put people at risk that wish to shame us from using a valuable and valid defensive technique by implying those who use it do so because they are racist or bigoted.

  94. 94
    daveS says:

    KF,

    This is what I was referring to by “taqiyah”.

    And yes, I think we’re in agreement that treating people differently solely because they are (or perhaps appear to be) Muslims is not productive, and I assume actually illegal in the US.

    On the gun control issue, I don’t believe any significant changes on this front will occur in my lifetime.

  95. 95
    daveS says:

    WJM,

    No. You should perhaps try to understand that “profiling” contains more criteria than simply race, ethnicity or apparent religion. How, surely you realize that if a TSA agent has pictures of perhaps 50 dark-complexioned radical jihadist men who almost always dress in traditional garb on their no-fly list, the first thing they should look for in a busy airport with lots of people waiting in line is … matching dark skin and traditional garb.

    You don’t have a problem with that, do you? That in that circumstance you give special attention to dark complexioned men in traditional muslim dress so you can see if they look like the men in your no-fly photographs? Not that they have to actually pull the guy aside or into a room, but just get a good look at their face, right?

    I don’t have a problem with this, because here you are searching for specific people who have already been identified as dangerous and have been placed on a list. This is not a case of treating Muslims (or members of other religious groups) differently solely based on their religion.

  96. 96
    kairosfocus says:

    DS, the pivotal issue is the network, but the issue of the Maoist fish in the sea also counts. Where, it is past time that Muslims as a whole were to clearly, definitively repudiate the IslamISTS and their strategies as well as tactics. Not just by words but by consistent deeds. Otherwise they will have themselves to blame for those who will eventually say it is all a good cop, bad cop con game to push an oppressive, totalitarian agenda. I suspect time is beginning to run out on this. KF

    PS: I see the cap. There is an uncomfortable history there, especially given the reason why a very similar cap, the Fez, is red.

  97. 97

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