A peek at the future of science, SJW-style

_{Denyse O'Leary

June 8, 2018

Culture, Intelligent Design, Naturalism, Philosophy, Science}

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Abstract: This article addresses questions in human geography and the geographies of sexuality by drawing upon one year of embedded in situ observations of dogs and their human companions at three public dog parks in Portland, Oregon. The purpose of this research is to uncover emerging themes in human and canine interactive behavioral patterns in urban dog parks to better understand human a-/moral decision-making in public spaces and uncover bias and emergent assumptions around gender, race, and sexuality. Specifically, and in order of priority, I examine the following questions: (1) How do human companions manage, contribute, and respond to violence in dogs? (2) What issues surround queer performativity and human reaction to homosexual sex between and among dogs? and (3) Do dogs suffer oppression based upon (perceived) gender? It concludes by applying Black feminist criminology categories through which my observations can be understood and by inferring from lessons relevant to human and dog interactions to suggest practical applications that disrupts hegemonic masculinities and improves access to emancipatory spaces. – Helen Wilson, Human reactions to rape culture and queer performativity at urban dog parks in Portland, Oregon, Gender, Place & Culture: A Journal of Feminist Geography Received 27 Nov 2017, Accepted 19 Feb 2018, Published online: 22 May 2018 https://doi.org/10.1080/0966369X.2018.1475346

Maybe Bret Weinstein’s former students could get a job doing this kind of research? Better this than teaching, health care, or cancer research.

One hopes this will turn out to be a hoax or that they are kidding. One fears not.

In other news, Big Science frets about Ken Ham’s Creation Museum, as if it could possibly have the same cultural impact as their tacit acceptance that this stuff above is science.

See also: Weasel words about teaching students to think like scientists. “Likewise, STEM majors’ college experience must be integrated into a broader model of liberal education to prepare them to think critically and imaginatively about the world and to understand different viewpoints.” Realistically, today, that would mean valuing witchcraft and astrology to the same extent as science.

Algebra is not racist.

and

The war on freedom is rotting our intellectual life: Intersectionality

Comments

here is need for education about depression and provision of readily accessible help.
I agree, but I think stigmatising it, and stigmatising suicide is not the answer - that's more likely to lead to people not seeking help as they don't want to admit to thinking about committing a sin.Bob O'H_{June 11, 2018
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BO'H: This is why depression needs to be seen as the health and safety crisis it is (and it may be among the biggest, I have suspicions about a lot of "accidental" deaths). There is need for education about depression and provision of readily accessible help. BA77 is right that most people seek help short of suicide attempts, but in many cases that is not understood for what it is, a serious warning. We have also committed the folly of promoting a culture of moral numbness, amorality, nihilism and death in many forms. It is to a point where I see people talking about HOW to kill yourself in social media, laying out and indicating techniques that are allegedly painless. In the old days, suicide was spoken of as cowardice and as a point of no return sin -- big, culturally accessible warning flags [though I think certain drinking problems were slow suicide by bottle]; which many today would jump on as lacking sensitivity etc, but we need a better solution than enabling suicide by a misguided redefinition of "compassion." We need serious reform, and yes, a worldview and culture that treasures life is pivotal to breaking the stranglehold of the spirit of death that haunts our civilisation. As I keep saying, the ongoing warping of our civilisation to sustain holocaust of living posterity in the womb has consequences that spread out far and wide. KFkairosfocus_{June 11, 2018
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Silver Asiatic @ 24 -
My concern is that if suicide is not a sin, then what is wrong with it?
Indeed, I think that's a very important question. I'm actually not sure suicide itself has to be morally wrong, but that's not to say that I think suicide is a good thing.
Yes, people suffer pains of all sorts but usually they seek a remedy before just killing themselves.
I suspect, from reading this, you've never suffered from depression. It can actually be very difficult to reach out for help (this has been discussed quite a bit on twitter in the last week or so): for some people who are severely depressed it is difficult to even get out of bed. It's easy to say that if you're depressed you should seek help, but the very nature of depression makes it difficult to actually look for help.Bob O'H_{June 11, 2018
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Allan Keith, actually it is fairly simple. Atheism entails a hopeless nihilism that drains life of any real meaning and purpose.
Existential nihilism is the belief that life has no intrinsic meaning or value.
Atheists, self admittedly, make up illusory meanings and purposes for their lives since the nihilism inherent in their atheism is just too much to for them to bear honestly (R. Weikart). Yet, as Bourdain's suicide itself testifies, the atheist's attempt to fill his life with illusory meaning and purpose ultimately fails. i,e, The nihilistic elephant in the room refuses to go away! This is VERY sad, especially since the atheist's worldview is grievously false through and through. Yet, for whatever severely misguided reason, the vast majority of internet atheists would rather believe a pack of blatant lies than ever believe that they were purposely created by God. For example AK, you yourself refused to honestly address the question posed to you in post 22. (i.e. Is you 'beyond belief' brain designed or an accident?) As Jesus's victory over death testifies, death IS NOT the end of our lives. This is VERY GOOD news! Life really does have true meaning and purpose. You need not wallow away in the nihilistic lies of your atheistic worldview. Only Christianity offers this guarantee over death. The founder of every other religion has a burial site. Not Jesus!. Jesus rose from the grave. That is the simple reason why Christians are basically more joyful than atheists are, and, from as far as I can presently tell, more joyful than the people of the other religions of the world. i.e. Only in Christianity is the hopeless nihilism of death soundly defeated!
1 Corinthians 15:54-55 When the perishable has been clothed with the imperishable and the mortal with immortality, then the saying that is written will come to pass: “Death has been swallowed up in victory.” “Where, O death, is your victory? Where, O death, is your sting?” Turin Shroud Hologram Reveals The Words "The Lamb" - video https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4Tmka1l8GAQ Rend Collective - Joy Of The Lord (Lyrics And Chords) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x3gLeCiMJqI
bornagain77_{June 10, 2018
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Seversky, a few examples of compelling evidence for 'disembodied consciousness' were provided on your other thread; https://uncommondescent.com/ethics/science-worldview-issues-and-society/sevs-iou-on-how-conscious-mind-will-be-explained-on-materialistic-premises/#comment-660246bornagain77_{June 10, 2018
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BA77,
AK, you were the one trying to say Christianity did not decrease suicide rates.
No. I said that it wasn’t as mindlessly simple as that. Which it isn’t. Even your links, as well as others, say the same thing.Allan Keith_{June 10, 2018
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bornagain77 @ 6

Mary Neal’s (Near Death Experience) – Choosing to Trust https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sdH_glI11Z0 Mary Neal, an orthopedic surgeon, drowned in a kayak accident while pinned at the bottom of a waterfall in a remote region of Chile. With the help of her kayaking companions Mary was pulled from the river, resuscitated and has since recounted her remarkable journey to the other side in her recent book, “To Heaven and Back: A Doctor’s Extraordinary Account of Her Death, Heaven, Angels, and Life Again: A True Story”.

That's one story. Here's another:
A Boy's Long Brush With Death; A Toddler Survives After Hours Without Oxygen or a Pulse

Though still in critical condition, Jesus is a lucky 3-year-old -- lucky that it was a chilly April day and the tap water in the apartment was cold. So while most abused children who are dunked in the bath for punishment are scalded with hot water, Jesus was nearly frozen. And doctors say that is probably why he lived -- apparently without brain damage -- despite the fact that he was not breathing and his heart had not been pumping for hours. When the body is cooled rapidly and stays very cold, the heart stops beating. But the body's metabolism also comes to a near standstill, sharply reducing the vital organs' need for blood and oxygen. At a body temperature below 80 degrees, a person can survive for a number of hours in a sort of suspended animation -- not measurably alive, yet not technically dead.
I don't doubt the doctor had the experience she reported but I seriously doubt she was ever brain dead since that, by definition, is irreversible. Like other NDEs it's an intriguing anecdote but it is not persuasive evidence for life after death and disembodied consciousness.Seversky_{June 10, 2018
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AK
Are you claiming that belief in your god is what results in lower suicide rates? Belief in other gods isn’t sufficient?
Of course, different theological views can have different moral systems. In Shinto thought, Kamakazi pilots were acting heroically in committing suicide for the Emperor (who was believed to be a divine being). We know the same is true among some variants of Islam.Silver Asiatic_{June 10, 2018
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Bob @ 21 I would hope to have compassion on all my fellow human beings. We all are tempted to sin at times, we all have moral failings - sometimes bigger sometimes smaller, but we are fellow sinners and I know it is not easy for anyone to reach a high level of moral goodness. My concern is that if suicide is not a sin, then what is wrong with it? Anthony Bourdain decided to kill himself and it didn't seem like he was insane (innocent by reason of insanity), but we don't know. Yes, people suffer pains of all sorts but usually they seek a remedy before just killing themselves. If your foot hurts, don't cut off your leg. If you have interior pain - seek some healing. But I have always found atheism, as a belief-system or worldview, to be compatible with suicide. The reasons for this should be obvious. I think it is incontrovertable that suicide is the killing of a person. Does the person deserve to be killed? In the Christian view, we should not hurt ourselves because our lives belong to God. It is certainly possible that a person who committed suicide is not fully guilty of a sin - yes. And a person can even repent of the action before death. So, we do not know how God will judge the individual act. We shouldn't say that a person is necessarily in Hell - we don't know for certain. But, objectively speaking - suicide is a sinful action like murder. God gives life, and only God can take it back. We don't have the right to do that to ourselves.Silver Asiatic_{June 10, 2018
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Bob, "for Western and Southern Europe, the religions would mainly be Christianity. This is true regardless of whether they are mentioned in that piece. And, of course, Islam worships the same god that you do." That is precisely the fault in the article. She, like you, did not properly differentiate religions. You, like the article, are extremely biased in your attempt to lump all religions together. The differences between the world's religions, that were glossed over in the article and in your flippant comment, are certainly major differences, not minor differences. Moreover, this slip-shod article does not negate, from much more rigorous studies, the consistently higher suicide rates for atheists that were found, on average, because of their nihilistic worldview:
Atheism Has a Suicide Problem - 12/08/2017 https://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/atheism-has-a-suicide-problem_us_5a2a902ee4b022ec613b812b "CONCLUSIONS: Religious affiliation is associated with less suicidal behavior in depressed inpatients. After other factors were controlled, it was found that greater moral objections to suicide and lower aggression level in religiously affiliated subjects may function as protective factors against suicide attempts." Religious Affiliation and Suicide Attempt https://www.quora.com/Is-it-true-that-more-atheists-commit-suicide-than-people-with-faith-in-God
bornagain77_{June 10, 2018
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AK, you were the one trying to say Christianity did not decrease suicide rates. I merely pointed out the facts that contradicted your claim. Of further note to Islam and suicide:
Muslim countries have highest rates of suicide, murder, rape and mental health problems A lost generation and grim future awaits if the Middle East is not stabilised, according to 25-year study of countries stretching from Morocco to Pakistan. - August 8, 2017 Suicide, murder, rape and mental health conditions are skyrocketing in a stretch of Muslim-majority countries from Morocco to Pakistan, many of which have been wracked by violence and conflict. A major study covering data from the last 25 years shows soaring rates of death by suicide or at the hands of others.,,, The countries studied are: Afghanistan, Egypt, Bahrain, Djibouti, Iraq, Iran, Jordan, Saudi Arabia, Kuwait, Lebanon, Libya, Morocco, Oman, Pakistan, Palestine, Qatar, Yemen, Somalia, Sudan, Syria, Tunisia, and the UAE. https://www.thenational.ae/world/muslim-countries-have-highest-rates-of-suicide-murder-rape-and-mental-health-problems-1.618038
Also of note, you accused me of ' hyper skepticism'. I find that accusation coming from a Darwinist to be especially rich. Darwinists are infamous for having a extreme 'hyper skeptical' attitude concerning the belief that life is designed even though life overwhelmingly gives the appearance of being brilliantly designed. For example AK, do you believe that your brain is the product of Intelligent Design or do you insanely believe it is the product of unguided, Mindless, processes?
The Half-Truths of Materialist Evolution - DONALD DeMARCO - 02/06/2015 Excerpt: but I would like to direct attention to the unsupportable notion that the human brain, to focus on a single phenomenon, could possibly have evolved by sheer chance. One of the great stumbling blocks for Darwin and other chance evolutionists is explaining how a multitude of factors simultaneously coalesce to form a unified, functioning system. The human brain could not have evolved as a result of the addition of one factor at a time. Its unity and phantasmagorical complexity defies any explanation that relies on pure chance. It would be an underestimation of the first magnitude to say that today’s neurophysiologists know more about the structure and workings of the brain than did Darwin and his associates. Scientists in the field of brain research now inform us that a single human brain contains more molecular-scale switches than all the computers, routers and Internet connections on the entire planet! According to Stephen Smith, a professor of molecular and cellular physiology at the Stanford University School of Medicine, the brain’s complexity is staggering, beyond anything his team of researchers had ever imagined, almost to the point of being beyond belief. In the cerebral cortex alone, each neuron has between 1,000 to 10,000 synapses that result, roughly, in a total of 125 trillion synapses, which is about how many stars fill 1,500 Milky Way galaxies! A single synapse may contain 1,000 molecular-scale switches. A synapse, simply stated, is the place where a nerve impulse passes from one nerve cell to another. Phantasmagorical as this level of unified complexity is, it places us merely at the doorway of the brain’s even deeper mind-boggling organization. Glial cells in the brain assist in neuron speed. These cells outnumber neurons 10 times over, with 860 billion cells. All of this activity is monitored by microglia cells that not only clean up damaged cells but also prune dendrites, forming part of the learning process. The cortex alone contains 100,000 miles of myelin-covered, insulated nerve fibers. The process of mapping the brain would indeed be time-consuming. It would entail identifying every synaptic neuron. If it took a mere second to identify each neuron, it would require four billion years to complete the project. http://www.ncregister.com/daily-news/the-half-truths-of-materialist-evolution/ "Complexity Brake" Defies Evolution - August 8, 2012 Excerpt: Consider a neuronal synapse -- the presynaptic terminal has an estimated 1000 distinct proteins. Fully analyzing their possible interactions would take about 2000 years. Or consider the task of fully characterizing the visual cortex of the mouse -- about 2 million neurons. Under the extreme assumption that the neurons in these systems can all interact with each other, analyzing the various combinations will take about 10 million years..., even though it is assumed that the underlying technology speeds up by an order of magnitude each year. http://www.evolutionnews.org/2012/08/complexity_brak062961.html The Human Brain Is 'Beyond Belief' by Jeffrey P. Tomkins, Ph.D. * - 2017 Excerpt: The human brain,, is an engineering marvel that evokes comments from researchers like “beyond anything they’d imagined, almost to the point of being beyond belief”1 and “a world we had never imagined.”2,,, Perfect Optimization The scientists found that at multiple hierarchical levels in the whole brain, nerve cell clusters (ganglion), and even at the individual cell level, the positioning of neural units achieved a goal that human engineers strive for but find difficult to achieve—the perfect minimizing of connection costs among all the system’s components.,,, Vast Computational Power Researchers discovered that a single synapse is like a computer’s microprocessor containing both memory-storage and information-processing features.,,, Just one synapse alone can contain about 1,000 molecular-scale microprocessor units acting in a quantum computing environment. An average healthy human brain contains some 200 billion nerve cells connected to one another through hundreds of trillions of synapses. To put this in perspective, one of the researchers revealed that the study’s results showed a single human brain has more information processing units than all the computers, routers, and Internet connections on Earth.1,,, Phenomenal Processing Speed the processing speed of the brain had been greatly underrated. In a new research study, scientists found the brain is 10 times more active than previously believed.6,7,,, The large number of dendritic spikes also means the brain has more than 100 times the computational capabilities than was previously believed.,,, Petabyte-Level Memory Capacity Our new measurements of the brain’s memory capacity increase conservative estimates by a factor of 10 to at least a petabyte, in the same ballpark as the World Wide Web.9,,, Optimal Energy Efficiency Stanford scientist who is helping develop computer brains for robots calculated that a computer processor functioning with the computational capacity of the human brain would require at least 10 megawatts to operate properly. This is comparable to the output of a small hydroelectric power plant. As amazing as it may seem, the human brain requires only about 10 watts to function.11 ,,, Multidimensional Processing It is as if the brain reacts to a stimulus by building then razing a tower of multi-dimensional blocks, starting with rods (1D), then planks (2D), then cubes (3D), and then more complex geometries with 4D, 5D, etc. The progression of activity through the brain resembles a multi-dimensional sandcastle that materializes out of the sand and then disintegrates.13 He also said: We found a world that we had never imagined. There are tens of millions of these objects even in a small speck of the brain, up through seven dimensions. In some networks, we even found structures with up to eleven dimensions.13,,, Biophoton Brain Communication Neurons contain many light-sensitive molecules such as porphyrin rings, flavinic, pyridinic rings, lipid chromophores, and aromatic amino acids. Even the mitochondria machines that produce energy inside cells contain several different light-responsive molecules called chromophores. This research suggests that light channeled by filamentous cellular structures called microtubules plays an important role in helping to coordinate activities in different regions of the brain.,,, https://www.icr.org/article/10186
Design or accident, what say ye AK?bornagain77_{June 10, 2018
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sd @ 13 - Murder is usually seen as killing another person - I certainly don't know of anyone charged with attempted murder after a failed suicide, and suicide isn't really a sin of anger or (directly) against a neighbour. So from what you've written, to me it looks like one could also argue that suicide isn't a sin. You are also quick to condemn people for committing suicide, but have you thought about what pain someone must be going through to want to end their life? I just find this apparent lack of compassion interesting. ba77 - for Western and Southern Europe, the religions would mainly be Christianity. This is true regardless of whether they are mentioned in that piece. And, of course, Islam worships the same god that you do.Bob O'H_{June 10, 2018
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BA77,
In fact Christianity is known to be declining in Eastern and Southern Europe. Whereas Islam is growing.
Are you claiming that belief in your god is what results in lower suicide rates? Belief in other gods isn’t sufficient?Allan Keith_{June 10, 2018
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No, no 'hyper-skepticism' at all. Just the facts. The author did not mention which religions of Eastern and Southern Europe were 'increasing'. The one allusion to specific religions she did make in the article, as I pointed out, supported my position not yours. In fact Christianity is known to be declining in Eastern and Southern Europe. Whereas Islam is growing.
Quo Vadis? The Philosophical, Spiritual Floundering of Europe in 2017 By GARLAND TUCKER - October 21, 2017 “Non-believers outnumber the faithful by widest margin yet.” This fall has been driven primarily by young people. Of those between 18 and 24 years old, 62 percent have no religion. https://www.nationalreview.com/2017/10/europe-christianity-non-believers-cultural-identity-crisis-immigration-assimilation/ Will Islam Conquer Europe? Analysts estimate that in Britain, for example, Islamic mosques host more worshippers each week than the Church of England! Filling the void of traditional Christianity is a robust, energetic and youthful movement afoot in Europe. If this continues at the present rate, cathedrals will appear as vestiges of a civilization of times past. The great national cultures of Italians, French, Germans and others may be replaced by a new transnational Muslim identity. https://rcg.org/realtruth/articles/253-wice.html Three countries in Southeastern Europe have Muslim majorities. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Religion_in_Europe
Thus it is very likely that the 'increased suicide rate' is attributable to the increasing religion of Islam in Western and Southern Europe. Again, your study mentioned
“Unlike Christians, who “go to services together and meet people afterward,” practitioners of Buddhism, Shintoism and Taoism in East Asia are more “individualized,” she said.”
And "Socialization" instead "individualization" matches studies such as these
ABC News - The Science Behind the Healing Power of Love - video http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6t1p-PwGgE4 Social isolation and its health implications January 2012 Excerpt: Studies show that social isolation and/or loneliness predict morbidity and mortality from cancer, cardiovascular disease, and a host of other diseases. In fact, the body perceives loneliness as a threat. Research from the University of California suggests that loneliness or lack of social support could triple the odds of being diagnosed with a heart condition. Redford Williams and his colleagues at Duke University directed a study in 1992 on heart patients and their relationships. They discovered that 50% of patients with heart disease who did not have a spouse or someone to confide in died within five years, while only 17% of those who did have a confidante died in the same time period.12 http://www.how-to-be-healthy.org/social-isolation-and-its-health-implications/ The Secret to Living Longer may be Socialization - TED video https://www.ted.com/talks/susan_pinker_the_secret_to_living_longer_may_be_your_social_life/transcript?language=en What Makes a Good (long) Life? Lessons from the Longest Study on Happiness | Robert Waldinger | TED Talks (Good Relationships lead to long life) - video https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8KkKuTCFvzI
Verse:
Hebrews 10:25 Not forsaking the assembling of ourselves together, as the manner of some is; but exhorting one another: and so much the more, as ye see the day approaching.
bornagain77_{June 10, 2018
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BA77,
The religions attended are not mentioned for Western and Southern Europe.
Nice try. Your hyper skepticism is showing.Allan Keith_{June 10, 2018
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The religions attended are not mentioned for Western and Southern Europe. Only this: "Unlike Christians, who “go to services together and meet people afterward,” practitioners of Buddhism, Shintoism and Taoism in East Asia are more “individualized,” she said." Seems apparent that the author is directly noting the suicidal differences between the two religionsbornagain77_{June 10, 2018
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BA77,
Whilst Christianity, where Jesus Christ is held to have conquered death, is found to decrease suicidal tendencies and increase life satisfaction.
I guess you forgot to read this part. Hsieh found that although religion is linked to lower suicide rates in Latin America, eastern Europe, northern Europe, and English-speaking countries, it is associated with higher suicide rates in East Asia, western Europe and southern Europe. I wasn’t aware that eastern mysticism was big in Europe.Allan Keith_{June 10, 2018
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AK, from your paper:
Unlike Christians, who “go to services together and meet people afterward,” practitioners of Buddhism, Shintoism and Taoism in East Asia are more “individualized,” she said.
so your study found that Eastern Mysticism increased suicide rates. Not so surprising since, at least how I understand it, one of Eastern Mysticism's core teachings is to 'detach' oneself from the world in order to try achieve Nirvana so as to escape suffering and continual rebirth. That type of belief system literally has suicide written all over it! Whilst Christianity, where Jesus Christ is held to have conquered death, is found to decrease suicidal tendencies and increase life satisfaction. i.e. Death not having the final say is certainly a recipe for extinguishing nihilism and increasing happiness! Go figure. Thanks for plugging Christianity AK. You are a gem! As to addressing the 'mental aspect', I reiterate this:
“I maintain that whatever else faith may be, it cannot be a delusion. The advantageous effect of religious belief and spirituality on mental and physical health is one of the best-kept secrets in psychiatry and medicine generally. If the findings of the huge volume of research on this topic had gone in the opposite direction and it had been found that religion damages your mental health, it would have been front-page news in every newspaper in the land.” – Professor Andrew Sims former President of the Royal College of Psychiatrists – Is Faith Delusion?: Why religion is good for your health – preface “In the majority of studies, religious involvement is correlated with well-being, happiness and life satisfaction; hope and optimism; purpose and meaning in life; higher self-esteem; better adaptation to bereavement; greater social support and less loneliness; lower rates of depression and faster recovery from depression; lower rates of suicide and fewer positive attitudes towards suicide; less anxiety; less psychosis and fewer psychotic tendencies; lower rates of alcohol and drug use and abuse; less delinquency and criminal activity; greater marital stability and satisfaction… We concluded that for the vast majority of people the apparent benefits of devout belief and practice probably outweigh the risks.” – Professor Andrew Sims former President of the Royal College of Psychiatrists – Is Faith Delusion?: Why religion is good for your health – page 100 https://books.google.com/books?id=PREdCgAAQBAJ&pg=PA100#v=onepage&q&f=false
It seems AK is the one who wants to 'turn back the clock' and not address the fact that atheism is basically a mental disease.bornagain77_{June 10, 2018
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All this talk about Bourdain but nobody addresses the fact that suicide is often the result of an underlying mental illness. All BA77’s thoughtless statement did was to turn back the clock to the times when people with mental illnesses were labeled as being crazy or insane. And his citing a paper that finds a correlation between religious belief and suicide is not helping the issue. As was pointed out to me recently, correlation is not causation. How does BA77 explain the fact that in east Asia being religious comes with an increase suicide rate?
In contrast, in East Asia, where residents are reportedly more secular, higher levels of religious involvement are connected to higher suicide rates. http://dc.medill.northwestern.edu/blog/2017/07/05/new-study-suggests-religion-affects-suicide-rates-differently-around-the-world/#sthash.SBL9b31m.dpbs
Allan Keith_{June 10, 2018
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No, it stands alongside “Blessed are those who mourn: for they will be comforted”. I don’t see how it is comforting to be told that the person you are mourning committed a “very evil act” when they tried to find a way out of their pain.
Certainly, you're right. When we encounter someone in sorrow, that is the time to be compassionate (as Jesus always was).
FWIW, I wouldn’t want to say that Christians (or members of any other religion) shouldn’t prosetylise, or tell people that they are wrong. Just that there is a time and place, and surely when people are mourning isn’t the time. Is it really un-Christian to be sensitive to other people’s feelings?
As above, I fully agree. Being sensitive to others' feelings is important. I do not think that gloating or ridicule of a man, even an enemy of God, is right or a good Christian attitude. Jesus did not rejoice over Judas' condemnation - although He did not spare his feelings and said that it was evil. A compassionate response needs to look at both a response of mercy and of justice. To ignore a person's feelings is, as you said before, crass. But however, to never point out the error or problem, that is not being truthful or compassionate. The conversations here often turn to questions about atheism - "why should an atheist be sad about Anthony Bourdain's death"? You might say that's an inhuman sort of question. But we (I do anyway) have the impression that atheism really is inhuman. It is anti-human. Just as suicide is. Mr. Bourdain chose to kill himself. Would atheists praise his personal decision and freedom to do whatever he wants? Would he be honored for boldly taking his life, in the way and at the time that he chose to do it? So, we wonder why there is sadness in that respect. Anthony didn't think it mattered, apparently, if anyone cared about him - so why do we? I understand these are insensitive questions, but I think they're important.
Incidentally, what were Jesus’ teachings on suicide?
Directly, he did not say anything. So, we have to interpret his teachings from other sources. I am a Catholic so we believe that Jesus communicated His teachings not only in the written Gospel but also orally to the apostles and expressed through the early church (fathers of the church). But even going just by the Gospel, the commandment is that murder is a serious sin. In fact, even a sin of anger (rash hatred) against our neighbor is a sin which makes a person to "be in danger of the fire of hell." So, Jesus condemned murder. Suicide is a person who murders himself. So, a man who commits suicide is a murderer. He killed an innocent person. This is a sensitive topic, however, because a person must be fully conscious and rational in making this decision to murder. We can't simply condemn everyone who kills themself. People are mentally ill and do things. Was Anthony Bourdain mentally ill? I don't know. I hope he was not clear and rational in his thought, making a cold decision to kill himself. But even for a man who kills his wife in a fit of passion, or in mental illness - we can say it was a very evil thing to do. The man may not be fully to blame. But it was bad. The same is true for suicide. A compassionate response should not assign blame or hatred against a man who does such a thing, but also should not excuse it or pretend that it is not an evil action to murder one's own self. Our life is a gift from God - given to use to use well and to develop. It's a gift that is meant for a destiny (to return to God) and also to be helpful to others. The key theme we return to very often here is "what would an atheist do"? This makes a very big difference on the topic of suicide. People suffer many things in life - oppression, illness, poverty, hostility, depression, pain - and they endure all of this until the end because they hope in God. Even when there is no hope for a cure. Because they look to God as the final end of their journey of life - and they know that God has given life to them. It is not their own to take or kill when they want. This is radically different in the atheist view. Why endure all of that pain? Why be a burden on others? If there is no God, what would be wrong with suicide when life is so painful? For the believer, it's not only that we are not permitted to kill ourself -- but it is the belief and knowledge that God will sustain and help us, guide us and comfort us, even in very difficult times of pain. We see that with Jesus dying on the cross. His followers are sad about His death, but also happy because it had profound meaning.Silver Asiatic_{June 10, 2018
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But really, if you want to understand Christianity – it’s best to look at the life of Jesus. Look at what He taught and what He did. What you do not find is that Compassion as the highest virtue above all else. You can read the Beatitudes “Blessed are the …” and none of them say “blessed are the compassionate” or “blessed are the tolerant”. You might see “peacemakers” as being that sort of thing, but even there it does not stand alone.
No, it stands alongside "Blessed are those who mourn: for they will be comforted". I don't see how it is comforting to be told that the person you are mourning committed a "very evil act" when they tried to find a way out of their pain. FWIW, I wouldn't want to say that Christians (or members of any other religion) shouldn't prosetylise, or tell people that they are wrong. Just that there is a time and place, and surely when people are mourning isn't the time. Is it really un-Christian to be sensitive to other people's feelings? Incidentally, what were Jesus' teachings on suicide?Bob O'H_{June 10, 2018
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The posts about Anthony Bourdain have troubled me - indeed, I found the event horrifying and terrible. I have watched him for years - admiring much, and always hoping he would mature and find God. I also found his lifestyle to be appalling, and I had adopted his cultural mindset for a time in my life when I was younger (I am his age) - so I know his worldview, ambitions, tastes and ethos - at least as a product of his culture. He contributed to, and shaped our culture strongly as all celebrities do. Even if he claimed to be an outsider to the world of tv celebrities - that was his life. His worldview, beliefs, atheism, Epicureanism -- these are all the hallmarks of our cultural heroes today. Bob
Indeed, that you don’t show any compassion: you would rather lecture other people on their perceived shortcomings that treat them as people. If you want to show the compassion of Christianity, don’t proselytise, be compassionate. I respect Christianity precisely because I have met Christians who are compassionate and respectful.
I thought a lot about this and there is much to appreciate. I will say though, that your comment is reducible to one term: "compassion". In fact, you repeat it four times. Compassion is one of those virtues (and it is a virtue) like "tolerance" (which I don't think is a virtue actually) which has been elevated to a supreme position. This term has a certain meaning, and even (especially) religious leaders use this term to characterize Christianity. There was a time (I think George W Bush) when people used the term "compassionate conservative", because everybody needed to proclaim that they are compassionate, and again - that is the supreme virtue. So, it is believed that Christians must be, above all things, "compassionate people". First of all, where does this idea come from? Who said that Christianity is mainly something that is "compassionate"? Ok, yes - many contemporary religious teachers say that, so I can forgive atheists for believing it. But really, if you want to understand Christianity - it's best to look at the life of Jesus. Look at what He taught and what He did. What you do not find is that Compassion as the highest virtue above all else. You can read the Beatitudes "Blessed are the ..." and none of them say "blessed are the compassionate" or "blessed are the tolerant". You might see "peacemakers" as being that sort of thing, but even there it does not stand alone. Compassion today in the secular sense, means something like 'indulgence' - giving in, pleasing others. To be compassionate means, never making someone uncomfortable. Never correcting someone's errors. Never pointing out where something is wrong. Never calling something a sin. Never saying than anyone actually did something evil (with some exceptions which are contradictory). Celebrities, for example, deserve all sorts of compassion because they make us feel good. I guess Harvey Weinstein is an exception. Everybody in Hollywood knew what he was doing for years. They had 'compassion' on him by not saying anything. But then, someone revealed his sins and now they don't need to be compassionate any more. Anthony Bourdain leaves people in a difficult situation. Of course, as said - whenever someone is sad because a celebrity died, Christians must be compassionate and never say anything. Plus, if a Christian actually tries to express his faith, that is seen as rude and not-compassionate and as proselytizing. So, the good Christians are the ones who never say anything about their faith, never speak about manifest evils and always make people feel comfortable. A man kills himself, leaving behind a young daughter and others. The supposed compassionate response is to say nothing, or to say "this is sad". The Christian is not permitted to say that the man committed a very evil action. The failure to condemn such a thing, however, is not compassionate. It is a failure to tell the truth about Jesus' teachings. Thinking that Jesus was "compassionate" in the celebrity-secular sense of that world is to imagine that Jesus never let anyone feel uncomfortable, that he would prefer not to tell the truth rather than see someone sad, that he was very tolerant of evil actions because he didn't want to say anything about it. This is very clearly false. Again, just look at His words and teachings. Look at what he said to the Jews who rejected Him. No, for the Christian Faith, the highest virtue is not compassion but to act with wisdom and give the best to God, and others, at times to seek justice, other times to give mercy.Silver Asiatic_{June 9, 2018
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as to: "Indeed, that you don’t show any compassion: you would rather lecture other people on their perceived shortcomings than treat them as people." Not that I am not already showing compassion, but should not you adopt the Christian worldview that grounds human exceptionalism, instead of holding onto your insane materialistic worldview that denies you are even a person in the first place??,, I mean if you truly want to be treated as a real person??? ,,, Not to 'lecture' you on your 'shortcomings', but not being a real person does tend to stick out! :)
Darwin’s Theory vs Falsification – 39:45 minute mark https://youtu.be/8rzw0JkuKuQ?t=2387 Excerpt: Basically, because of reductive materialism (and/or methodological naturalism), the atheistic materialist is forced to claim that he is merely a ‘neuronal illusion’ (Coyne, Dennett, etc..), who has the illusion of free will (Harris), who has unreliable beliefs about reality (Plantinga), who has illusory perceptions of reality (Hoffman), who, since he has no real time empirical evidence substantiating his grandiose claims, must make up illusory “just so stories” with the illusory, and impotent, ‘designer substitute’ of natural selection (Behe, Gould, Sternberg), so as to ‘explain away’ the appearance (i.e. illusion) of design (Crick, Dawkins), and who must make up illusory meanings and purposes for his life since the reality of the nihilism inherent in his atheistic worldview is too much for him to bear (Weikart), and who must also hold morality to be subjective and illusory since he has rejected God. Bottom line, nothing is real in the atheist’s worldview, least of all, morality, meaning and purposes for life.,,, Paper with references for each claim page; Page 34: https://docs.google.com/document/d/1pAYmZpUWFEi3hu45FbQZEvGKsZ9GULzh8KM0CpqdePk/edit
Thus, although the Darwinian Atheist firmly believes he is on the terra firma of science (in his appeal, even demand, for methodological naturalism), the fact of the matter is that, when examining the details of his materialistic/naturalistic worldview, it is found that Darwinists/Atheists are adrift in an ocean of fantasy and imagination with no discernible anchor for reality to grab on to. It would be hard to fathom a worldview more antagonistic to modern science than Atheistic materialism and/or methodological naturalism have turned out to be.
2 Corinthians 10:5 Casting down imaginations, and every high thing that exalteth itself against the knowledge of God, and bringing into captivity every thought to the obedience of Christ;
bornagain77_{June 9, 2018
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It truly is sad that two atheists show more “Christian” compassion than the self-proclaimed Bornagain Christian.Allan Keith_{June 9, 2018
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bs77 -
Bob (and weave) O’Hara implores me to “show some compassion”. And that is precisely the point.
Indeed, that you don't show any compassion: you would rather lecture other people on their perceived shortcomings that treat them as people. If you want to show the compassion of Christianity, don't proselytise, be compassionate. I respect Christianity precisely because I have met Christians who are compassionate and respectful.Bob O'H_{June 9, 2018
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BA77 @ 4: You nailed it. The entire a/mat worldview can be summed up with one phrase... hopeless nihilism.Truth Will Set You Free_{June 9, 2018
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Bob (and weave) O'Hara implores me to "show some compassion". And that is precisely the point. Exactly where is this compassion to be found within the atheist's nihilistic worldview? To have real compassion, Bob must steal compassion from Christianity because the only thing his nihilistic worldview has to offer is 'blind, pitiless, indifference':
"If there ever is a time of plenty, this very fact will automatically lead to an increase in the population until the natural state of starvation and misery is restored. In a universe of electrons and selfish genes, blind physical forces and genetic replication, some people are going to get hurt, other people are going to get lucky, and you won't find any rhyme or reason in it, nor any justice. The universe that we observe has precisely the properties we should expect if there is, at bottom, no design, no purpose, no evil, no good, nothing but pitiless indifference.” - Richard Dawkins, River Out of Eden: A Darwinian View of Life
It truly would be incompassionate, even morally negligent, of me if I were to just let people wallow away in such hopeless misery without at least trying to offer a little light of real hope and real compassion into their lives that trusting in the living God offers. Bob's supposed compassion amounts to completely ignoring the atheistic source of the misery. Yet no matter how much Bob may want to ignore it, or in Boudain's case, drink and drug it away, the nihilism is forever in the background of the atheists worldview and, like the proverbial elephant in the room, refuses to go away.
Jeremiah 29:11 For I know the plans I have for you," declares the LORD, "plans to prosper you and not to harm you, plans to give you hope and a future. Mary Neal's (Near Death Experience) - Choosing to Trust https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sdH_glI11Z0 Mary Neal, an orthopedic surgeon, drowned in a kayak accident while pinned at the bottom of a waterfall in a remote region of Chile. With the help of her kayaking companions Mary was pulled from the river, resuscitated and has since recounted her remarkable journey to the other side in her recent book, “To Heaven and Back: A Doctor’s Extraordinary Account of Her Death, Heaven, Angels, and Life Again: A True Story”.
bornagain77_{June 9, 2018
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ba77 - using someone's death to proselytise for your religion is pretty crass. If you were genuinely saddened by his death, then presumably you would appreciate that others are too, and probably won't appreciate a response that ignores their sadness, and instead criticises (whether implicitly or explicitly) the person who's passing they are sad about. To then use it as a reason to advertise your own point of view (when there is no indication that it is relevant in this instance) is surely crass. Please, show some compassion.Bob O'H_{June 9, 2018
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AK, you are projecting feelings onto me that I do not possess. I was moved to write my observations about his life precisely because I was so saddened by his tragic death. Atheists, such as you and Bourdain, can try to pretend that the hopeless nihilism inherent within atheism does not negatively effect your life, but, as Bourdain's suicide itself testifies, humans without the real hope that is in God, and Jesus Christ's victory over death, are just fooling themselves. The hopeless nihilism is ever present draining your life of any real meaning and purpose. Numerous studies back this 'hopeless nihilism' observation up.
Of snakebites and suicide - February 18, 2014 RESULTS: Religiously unaffiliated subjects had significantly more lifetime suicide attempts and more first-degree relatives who committed suicide than subjects who endorsed a religious affiliation. https://uncommondescent.com/intelligent-design/of-snakebites-and-suicide/ Knowledge of the afterlife deters suicide. Lessons From the Light by Kenneth Ring and Evelyn Elsaesser p.257-258: As far as I know, the first clinician to make use of NDE material in this context was a New York psychologist named John McDonagh. In 1979, he presented a paper at a psychological convention that described his success with several suicidal patients using a device he called “NDE bibliotherapy.” His “technique” was actually little more than having his patients read some relevant passages from Raymond Moody’s book, Reflections on Life after Life, after which the therapist and his patient would discuss its implications for the latter’s own situation. McDonagh reports that such an approach was generally quite successful not only in reducing suicidal thoughts but also in preventing the deed altogether. … Since McDonagh’s pioneering efforts, other clinicians knowledgeable about the NDE who have had the opportunity to counsel suicidal patients have also reported similar success. Perhaps the most notable of these therapists is Bruce Greyson, a psychiatrist now at the University of Virginia, whose specialty as a clinician has been suicidology. He is also the author of a classic paper on NDEs and suicide which the specialist may wish to consult for its therapeutic implications. (14) Quite apart from the clinicians who have developed this form of what we might call “NDE-assisted therapy,” I can draw upon my own personal experience here to provide additional evidence of how the NDE has helped to deter suicide. The following case,,, http://ncu9nc.blogspot.com/2015/03/video-lecture-by-john-lennox-explains.html Can attending church really help you live longer? This study says yes - June 1, 2017 Excerpt: Specifically, the study says those middle-aged adults who go to church, synagogues, mosques or other houses of worship reduce their mortality risk by 55%. The Plos One journal published the "Church Attendance, Allostatic Load and Mortality in Middle Aged Adults" study May 16. "For those who did not attend church at all, they were twice as likely to die prematurely than those who did who attended church at some point over the last year," Bruce said. https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation-now/2017/06/02/can-attending-church-really-help-you-live-longer-study-says-yes/364375001/ Atheism and health A meta-analysis of all studies, both published and unpublished, relating to religious involvement and longevity was carried out in 2000. Forty-two studies were included, involving some 126,000 subjects. Active religious involvement increased the chance of living longer by some 29%, and participation in public religious practices, such as church attendance, increased the chance of living longer by 43%.[4][5] http://www.conservapedia.com/Atheism_and_health “I maintain that whatever else faith may be, it cannot be a delusion. The advantageous effect of religious belief and spirituality on mental and physical health is one of the best-kept secrets in psychiatry and medicine generally. If the findings of the huge volume of research on this topic had gone in the opposite direction and it had been found that religion damages your mental health, it would have been front-page news in every newspaper in the land.” - Professor Andrew Sims former President of the Royal College of Psychiatrists - Is Faith Delusion?: Why religion is good for your health - preface “In the majority of studies, religious involvement is correlated with well-being, happiness and life satisfaction; hope and optimism; purpose and meaning in life; higher self-esteem; better adaptation to bereavement; greater social support and less loneliness; lower rates of depression and faster recovery from depression; lower rates of suicide and fewer positive attitudes towards suicide; less anxiety; less psychosis and fewer psychotic tendencies; lower rates of alcohol and drug use and abuse; less delinquency and criminal activity; greater marital stability and satisfaction… We concluded that for the vast majority of people the apparent benefits of devout belief and practice probably outweigh the risks.” - Professor Andrew Sims former President of the Royal College of Psychiatrists - Is Faith Delusion?: Why religion is good for your health – page 100 https://books.google.com/books?id=PREdCgAAQBAJ&pg=PA100#v=onepage&q&f=false
And to repeat what I have said many times before, besides the overwhelming evidence that life is Intelligent Designed, Atheists should become Christians for the simple, practical, even logical and rational, reason that their lives, on average, will be significantly better than their lives currently are as atheists.bornagain77_{June 9, 2018
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BA77@1, that has to be one of the most insensitive, crass things that I have read here. It is quite obvious that you have never watched any of his shows. What happened to that spirit of Christian love and forgiveness?Allan Keith_{June 9, 2018
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