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COVID-19 and fading respect for Big Science

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At Creation-Evolution Headlines, an epic paragraph helps us prepare for the
fallout:

Without trying to take sides here, a few headlines illustrate some of the posturing and attacking going on. UC Davis claims that your mask cuts down risk of contracting the disease by 65%, but how can they measure that without specifying the conditions? What kind of mask? How often is it cleaned? The Scientist pitched in, too, with an infographic. But Dr Anthony Fauci, the acclaimed world expert on infectious diseases, first denied the effectiveness of masks and now strongly advocates them. The bickering over masks has taken a political turn, with conservatives often denying their effectiveness, and liberals using masks as virtue signals to shame those who don’t use them. Some say UV kills the virus, others say it doesn’t. The University of Houston has an air filter they claim can kill the virus. The Mayo Clinic puffs itself up in the role of authority, “Debunking COVID-19 Myths,” but who will debunk the debunkers? Much of its advice appears commonsense, but the ‘experts’ have blundered big time publicly for months now, with mainstream media behind them. They promoted then retracting a claim about hydrochloroquine causing harm, because it made President Trump, who promoted HCQ, look bad—a political motivation. See negative analysis by Mary McCullough, and compare it with claims of success from a Henry Ford study (New York Post); see how CNN’s coverage immediately casts doubt on it, revealing its knee-jerk bias against the president). A preprint on bioRxiv finds that HCQ is theoretically and experimentally good after all. Today, there is a controversy going on about whether the virus is airborne (e.g., Nature, BBC News, Live Science). Why is such a simple observational test so hard for the world’s greatest medical scientists to figure out, using state-of-the-art equipment?

David F. Coppedge, “Big Science Is Losing Even More Credibility” at Creation-Evolution Headlines

It’s not the uncertainty that is the problem. It’s the demand for belief and obedience to a variety of conflicting claims in the face of such uncertainty. Sooner or later people begin to doubt whatever they hear, even in matters about which there is considerable certainty. And Big Science is bringing that on itself. It isn’t the “enemies of science” who are doing it.

Comments
@ET Not really we’re both very healthy though and she’s actually struggling with a lot of the symptoms they are mild though while I have shown none at all Her entire work tested positive for it and she was the last one I will say this and from the experience of all of my friends and what I have experienced with it is that it is persistent and it stays with you That is the one symptom I’ve noticed that seems to be consistent amongst everyone is that the disease lasts a while Another factor could be is that I am type O negative blood and that might be the reason why I am showing little to no symptoms at all and I’m almost entirely unaffected by it While my wife is also type o and she’s experiencing mild to no symptoms as well She just feels worse then me Another case of this was one of my friends and her mom both got the disease My friend was type o and showed little to no symptoms, her mom was type A, had a lot of complications to begin with and she passed I was skeptical at first about the blood types but after seeing it and experiencing it firsthand I think your blood type does play a huge part in how affected you are by itAaronS1978
July 11, 2020
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Science says masks are effective-- https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZWbFF3PLnQw Kudos to you and your wife. Do you guys take vitamin D or get a lot of Sun? Any supplements? Just curiousET
July 11, 2020
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If anyone is going to post anything about Dr. Zelenko, I suggest they watch some of his interviews. Here is one done in two parts just a few days ago where he discusses in detail his approach and results. (the audio is bad in a couple places) - Part 1 - https://bit.ly/2OtwZwx Part 2 - https://bit.ly/3emuDtN Also here is the preprint of his results with 2200 patients. He treated about 800 of them and the rest he considered low risk and sent home to report back if things got worse. https://bit.ly/2YTjRGT Just about everyone who comments on this topic have been exposed to these results and ideas. Yet many do not seem to understand the results which probably means they do not read or watch the suggested information. Zelenko is not the only doctor using this protocol.jerry
July 11, 2020
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Covid wars part 342 I’m gonna say masks actually don’t work which is why we are still skyrocketing in numbers and we believe that 65% of the particulates coming out of one mouth’s are being stopped by surgical mask China has still not increased in their numbers that should be a huge concern to everybody on this forum “Big red flag there” And we are going about trying to deal with this disease in all the wrong ways By the way it turns out my wife has it and I have it to, she marginally sick, I’m unaffected But if I tell anybody this I’m a monster and I am sending the wrong message about this disease The message I need to send is that everybody will die from this disease and we have to be very afraid of it That is the social norm currently, besides blaming trump for this over and over and over again because this is a very political disease that doesn’t affect rioters and protesters but really infect everybody who goes to a Trump rally There is my two cents enjoyAaronS1978
July 11, 2020
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There is a prophylaxis that has scientific support. But since it is based on OTC supplements no one wants to run trials to see how effective it is. Hopefully the vitamin companies step up because once demonstrated effective they have quite a bit to gain.ET
July 11, 2020
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RP@21, I concur. I travel quite frequently with work. Last year I was in Australia, Singapore and Frankfurt. This year I was supposed to go to Vietnam, New Zealand and Oslo. I don’t feel sorry for myself but I can’t help but think of how many airline and airline support workers are out of work.Mac McTavish
July 11, 2020
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Lockdowns came into effect at 1 p.m. on Friday in neighborhoods in five towns and cities hit hard by the coronavirus outbreak, a day after cabinet ministers approved the measure as the number of new cases in Israel continued to surge. Parts of Jerusalem, Beit Shemesh, Lod, Ramle and Kiryat Malachi became “restricted zones” for seven days. The restrictions will be lifted at 8 a.m. on July 17. A joint statement Thursday evening by the Prime Minister’s Office and the Health Ministry said entries and exits of the restricted areas will be limited, as well as traffic and business activity inside the areas. https://www.timesofisrael.com/lockdowns-go-into-effect-in-neighborhoods-of-5-cities-as-virus-surges/rhampton7
July 11, 2020
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Israeli police on Saturday, July 11, said they had flooded central Tel Aviv with officers and closed main thoroughfares, ahead of a rally by critics of the government's handling of the COVID-19 crisis. "Hundreds of police will be deployed in a number of security cordons," a police statement said. "The mission is protection of the participants and preservation of public order." Organizers of the protests said they expected thousands of Israel's self-employed to turn out in protest at what they say is the government's abandonment of them after forcing their businesses to close under coronavirus regulations. Student unions said they would also take part in the event at the city's Rabin Square, to show their concern at the large numbers of young people made jobless by closures. https://www.rappler.com/world/regions/middle-east/266326-israeli-police-brace-rally-against-corona-cash-crisisrhampton7
July 11, 2020
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RHampton continues to post his fake news. Have you read the research on Remdesivir and dexamethasone? My guess is no or else you would not be posting these news articles that are bogus. It is also showing that the people you quote are uninformed too. You are just cutting and pasting what you think is relevant information but in actuality has no relevance. So it is fake!jerry
July 11, 2020
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Reliable information is key to tackling any outbreak and nowhere is it more crucial than in the management of the ongoing pandemic, says Ganesan Karthikeyan, a professor of cardiology at the All India Institute of Medical Sciences, New Delhi. “ The consequence of all this is impaired judgement, misplaced beliefs and distorted priorities. The run on pharmacies for hydroxychloroquine (triggered by mere speculations) that we witnessed a few weeks ago is a prime example,” writes Karthikeyan. Level-headed advisory from institutions like the ICMR, that plasma therapy is still an experimental treatment, are lost in the din. So, it is very likely that people are, in general, convinced that the only two currently available treatments for COVID-19 are plasma therapy and remdesivir. But, Karthikeyan argues that a study of dexamethasone in the United Kingdom deserves prominence. For one, this is the first study to show an unequivocal, and large benefit in sick patients with COVID-19, on the outcomes that matter most — the risk of death and the risk of needing ventilator support. Second, dexamethasone is cheap and readily available, with several “branded generics” available in the Indian market. https://indianexpress.com/article/explained/dexamethasone-remdesivir-hydroxychloroquine-india-coronavirus-6498730/rhampton7
July 11, 2020
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Now I happen to know that Zelenko never proved such a thing and I’d be willing to bet that if KF were honest with you, he would say the same thing.
All you done is prove that you don't read, especially on this site. Are you an English speaker? That may be your problem. Zelenko has given about 30 video interviews and the NY Times story you reference is over three months old and proof that Zelenko is valid because they did zero to discredit his claims. Now do you think if the NY Times had information. that his claims were not valid, would they not have published it? He has also published his results. A famous line of English literature comes from Sherlock Holmes. One of the most brilliant insights into human nature ever is the following quote from Silver Blaze
“Is there any point to which you would wish to draw my attention?' 'To the curious incident of the dog in the night-time.' 'The dog did nothing in the night-time.' 'That was the curious incident,' remarked Sherlock Holmes.”
Which has led to the famous expression of the dog barking in the night. There has been no dog barking that Zelenko's research is not valid so assume there was nothing to bark at by the NY Times. On this site we are full of dogs not barking in the night. You comment is a prime example.jerry
July 11, 2020
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Researchers have now discovered that the concentration of the two drugs -- Lopinavir and hydroxychloroquine (HCQ) -- in the lungs of Covid-19 patients is not sufficient to fight the virus. Lopinavir is a drug against HIV while hydroxychloroquine (HCQ) is used to treat malaria and rheumatism. Both drugs were regarded as the potential agents in the fight against the coronavirus (SARS-CoV-2). "Previous studies have shown the inhibition of drug metabolism by systemic inflammation, we had the rationale to investigate the effect of inflammation on lopinavir and hydroxychloroquine plasma levels," said study author Catia Marzolini from the University of Basel in Switzerland. Importantly, from the lopinavir and hydroxychloroquine concentrations in the plasma, the study group calculated the corresponding concentration in the lung compartment - the anatomic site of SARS-CoV-2 infection. The results strongly suggest that it is unlikely that both drugs reach sufficient concentrations to inhibit virus replication in the lung. https://www.outlookindia.com/newsscroll/researchers-discover-why-lopinavir-hcq-dont-work-on-covid19/1892488rhampton7
July 11, 2020
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Israel today does not recognize Zelenko’s findings as truthful or accurate. There is no cure in Israel or anywhere else in this world.rhampton7
July 11, 2020
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Israelis are desperate for a solution to the coronavirus crisis. And this desperation manifests in very different ways depending on the local community in question. Many Israelis believe their nation’s bio-technical expertise will lead the way, both at home and internationally. Others are awaiting Divine intervention. And some are latching on to any and all proposed “miracle” cures to end the COVID-19 threat and allow us to return to a more normal existence. In May, a lot of Israelis, including many in government and the mainstream media, eagerly promoted a treatment proposed by American Jewish doctor Vladimir ‘Zev’ Zelenko. After all, even US President Donald Trump had publicly endorsed Zelenko’s findings. Taking that same eagerness to less-scientific extremes is former Minister of Communications and Knesset lawmaker Ayoub Kara, a member of Israel’s Druze minority.... (Corona Cure: Israelis Told to Drink Russian Miracle Water) https://www.israeltoday.co.il/read/corona-cure-israelis-told-to-drink-russian-miracle-water/rhampton7
July 11, 2020
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So you really believe there is a medically proven cure for Covid 19. Now I happen to know that Zelenko never proved such a thing and I’d be willing to bet that if KF were honest with you, he would say the same thing. All you have is word of one doctor, who has admitted to The NY Times: “In an interview on Friday, Dr. Zelenko said that he was guilty of nothing more than sloppy wording. “I’m a clinician, not a researcher,” he said. “I don’t understand fully the language of clinical research.””rhampton7
July 11, 2020
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All you can do is hope there are also smart people reading your posts.
I came back here in late March to see what information people had on the virus. I had periodically looked in here to see what was currently going on after being a frequent contributor for over 10 years. I have found this site to be a continuing good source of information on science in general and lately on the virus. This led me to several other places to get excellent information and insight on the virus. It is also a good place to see the nonsense that permeates our society.jerry
July 11, 2020
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You can't fix stupid, Jerry. All you can do is hope there are also smart people reading your posts.ET
July 11, 2020
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The idea that there is a simple cure, and the entire global medical community has covered it up, is one of the more outstanding conspiracy theories I’ve ever heard.
Well not the global medical community but a large portion of it has ignored it or demonized parts of it. You are apparently not well read on this topic and do not understand how the virus works. I have no idea what your news sources are but if you had been here for the last 4 months and followed the links provided, you would not in good faith have made the comment you just posted.jerry
July 11, 2020
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RP:
The idea that there is a simple cure, and the entire global medical community has covered it up, is one of the more outstanding conspiracy theories I’ve ever heard.
Then it is good that no one is making that claimET
July 11, 2020
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Zelenko found a cure. There are others now. You should know that by now. Don’t you read? Or do you just cut and paste dribble? There must have been a thousand posts here on Zelenko and his protocol. There’s $200,000 to anyone who show it is not a cure. No takers anywhere. You might want to ask why some countries don’t have a problem while neighboring countries do?jerry
July 11, 2020
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“ There has been a known cure for over three months” Jerry, Who was it that actually said there is a cure? Do you know?rhampton7
July 11, 2020
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The idea that there is a simple cure, and the entire global medical community has covered it up, is one of the more outstanding conspiracy theories I’ve ever heard. A person who believes this probably believes in several other conspiracy theories, that for instance my global physics community is covering up infinite energy machines or some other silly nonsense.Retired Physicist
July 11, 2020
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Beyond the hundreds of thousands of Americans who have died and will die, and the hundreds of thousands or millions who will wind up with problems from stroke, lung damage etc
There has been a known cure for over three months but the political spectrum in the US has prevented this cure from being used except in isolated cases. There are now more cures known but these too are prevented from being implemented. So a lot of dead people to make a political point. That is what people should be upset about. But the dead are just statistics till one wants to make a specious political argument.jerry
July 11, 2020
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There are different grades of H2O2. And it has been and is being used in medical scenarios: How Food Grade Hydrogen Peroxide Helps COPD and Emphysema. So THAT would be why people are looking to it now.ET
July 11, 2020
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Incessant whining never cured anything. Thinking the President to be a micro-manager is pure ignorance. All Trump's detractors expect that he should be micro-managing this situation. So they blame Trump. And blaming other people is cowards' work. It's quite possible the the mass hatred for Trump is causing the mass break-down with respect to containing the virus. That it is by far more likely than anything the President has said causing it. Natural selection is the process of eliminating the less fit from the population. We are observing it in action on a global scale. COVID-19 just happens to a case of NS applied to humans. Humans who should be smart enough to adapt. Adapt or die. A small % are choosing death. I don't have a problem with that.ET
July 11, 2020
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@JVL yes, this whole thing has me personally upset. Beyond the hundreds of thousands of Americans who have died and will die, and the hundreds of thousands or millions who will wind up with problems from stroke, lung damage etc., it’s the little things too. I used to fly JAX to FCO (Rome, Italy) twice a year and enjoy the wonderful clothes, and coffee, and belle donne, and I can’t fly there now, and I don’t know how many months it’ll be before I can again.Retired Physicist
July 11, 2020
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Retired Physicist: America has some of the smartest people in the world, and some of the dumbest people in the world. Actually, in my experience, the whole world has lots of really smart people and lots of really dumb people. The trick is to know who to vote for.JVL
July 11, 2020
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“Pr4esident Trump NEVER said to inject nor drink bleach” ETTD. The United States normally has 600,000 bankruptcies every year due to medical bills. It will be interesting in a few years to look back and see what the rise is for this year.Retired Physicist
July 11, 2020
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@JVL in my very first physics job I was responsible for etching silicon dioxide wafers, and we used something called hot piranha solution. Basically, you mix sulphuric acid and industrial strength hydrogen peroxide and heat it up to about 150C. It stripped any adsorbed matter from the wafers. The idea that people would inject or drink bleaches like hydrogen peroxide is just amazing to me. America has some of the smartest people in the world, and some of the dumbest people in the world.Retired Physicist
July 11, 2020
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Retired Physicist is ignorant on how the USA system works. It's a bad time for willfully ignorant people.ET
July 11, 2020
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