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COVID-19 and fading respect for Big Science

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At Creation-Evolution Headlines, an epic paragraph helps us prepare for the
fallout:

Without trying to take sides here, a few headlines illustrate some of the posturing and attacking going on. UC Davis claims that your mask cuts down risk of contracting the disease by 65%, but how can they measure that without specifying the conditions? What kind of mask? How often is it cleaned? The Scientist pitched in, too, with an infographic. But Dr Anthony Fauci, the acclaimed world expert on infectious diseases, first denied the effectiveness of masks and now strongly advocates them. The bickering over masks has taken a political turn, with conservatives often denying their effectiveness, and liberals using masks as virtue signals to shame those who don’t use them. Some say UV kills the virus, others say it doesn’t. The University of Houston has an air filter they claim can kill the virus. The Mayo Clinic puffs itself up in the role of authority, “Debunking COVID-19 Myths,” but who will debunk the debunkers? Much of its advice appears commonsense, but the ‘experts’ have blundered big time publicly for months now, with mainstream media behind them. They promoted then retracting a claim about hydrochloroquine causing harm, because it made President Trump, who promoted HCQ, look bad—a political motivation. See negative analysis by Mary McCullough, and compare it with claims of success from a Henry Ford study (New York Post); see how CNN’s coverage immediately casts doubt on it, revealing its knee-jerk bias against the president). A preprint on bioRxiv finds that HCQ is theoretically and experimentally good after all. Today, there is a controversy going on about whether the virus is airborne (e.g., Nature, BBC News, Live Science). Why is such a simple observational test so hard for the world’s greatest medical scientists to figure out, using state-of-the-art equipment?

David F. Coppedge, “Big Science Is Losing Even More Credibility” at Creation-Evolution Headlines

It’s not the uncertainty that is the problem. It’s the demand for belief and obedience to a variety of conflicting claims in the face of such uncertainty. Sooner or later people begin to doubt whatever they hear, even in matters about which there is considerable certainty. And Big Science is bringing that on itself. It isn’t the “enemies of science” who are doing it.

Comments
If anyone listens to any President for medical advice then they deserve what they get. Trump said medical doctors should be doing it if they approve. He never said to do it yourself.ET
July 11, 2020
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Such a bad time to have incompetent federal leadership https://fox8.com/news/pathologist-found-blood-clots-in-almost-every-organ-during-autopsies-on-covid-19-patients/Retired Physicist
July 11, 2020
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ET
Pr4esident Trump NEVER said to inject nor drink bleach. seversky is lying or just plain stupid.
It is true that Trump never said ‘bleach’. He said ‘disinfectant’ of which bleach is one of the most common one used. And it is a fact that his injudicious use of words resulted in people drinking things like bleach and peroxide.Mac McTavish
July 11, 2020
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The efficacy of HCQ cocktails is already in the scientific literature. It is what makes up the MedCram videos. So I understand why our resident evos don't grasp itET
July 11, 2020
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Anyone who buys bleach for a covid-19 cure-all gets what they deserve. Pr4esident Trump NEVER said to inject nor drink bleach. seversky is lying or just plain stupid.ET
July 11, 2020
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Four members of the infamous “Church of Bleach”—a father and his three adult sons—are facing fraud and contempt charges in Florida in connection to selling industrial bleach as a “miracle cure-all.” Mark Grenon, 62, and his sons, Jonathan Grenon, 34, Jordan Grenon, 26, and Joseph Grenon, 32, all from Bradenton, Florida, were charged Wednesday. Federal prosecutors in Miami allege that the men have been selling their industrial bleach product—called “Miracle Mineral Solution” or MMS—as a treatment for COVID-19 and other conditions. The prosecutors say the men willfully violated a federal order made in April that they stop selling and distributing the product. The family also allegedly sent letters threatening violence to the federal judge who issued the order and warned that they may stage “a Waco.” All along, a special agent with the Food and Drug Administration made undercover purchases of their MMS and exchanged emails with the men, according to an affidavit. In some of those emails, one of the defendants advised the agent on how many drops of bleach per hour the agent’s (fictional) wife should drink to treat her bladder cancer. After a federal judge ordered them to stop selling the bleach, the men allegedly moved their online orders to email and required customers to fill out a survey, asking customers if they worked for the government or “fake news.” All in all, the men allegedly made around $500,000 in the last year alone from selling industrial bleach as a medical treatment. They averaged about $32,000 a month. But when they began touting the bleach as a cure for COVID-19 in March of this year, they made $123,000—about a 400-percent increase in sales.
Genesis claims MMS can cure a variety of serious diseases and disorders, including cancer, Alzheimer’s, autism, malaria, Parkinson’s, multiple sclerosis, and HIV/AIDS—and, most recently, COVID-19, the disease caused by the new coronavirus, SARS-CoV-2.
https://arstechnica.com/science/2020/07/florida-men-charged-with-selling-bleach-as-covid-19-cure-threatening-a-waco/JVL
July 11, 2020
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If you’ve been in contact with your state lawmaker in Mississippi, you may want to get a coronavirus test. About one in six state lawmakers have tested positive for the coronavirus, according to Dr. Thomas Dobbs of the Mississippi Health Department. For weeks, politicians flouted mask recommendations inside the state Capitol. Twenty-six state legislators have now tested positive for Covid-19, including Lt. Gov. Delbert Hosemann and State House Speaker Philip Gunn. Neither man wore a mask at a bill signing at the governor’s mansion last week. https://ktvz.com/news/national-world/2020/07/10/dozens-of-mississippi-lawmakers-have-coronavirus-after-weeks-of-refusing-to-wear-masks/rhampton7
July 10, 2020
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Kairosfocus @ 6
Sev, your suggestion on bleach is a reckless falsehood, and one that has been corrected here at UD. Does that give you a clue as to why your credibility has to be regarded as nil?
How is the credibility of the official transcript of Trump's remarks at the press conference on April 23 2020?
THE PRESIDENT: Thank you very much. So I asked Bill a question that probably some of you are thinking of, if you’re totally into that world, which I find to be very interesting. So, supposing we hit the body with a tremendous — whether it’s ultraviolet or just very powerful light — and I think you said that that hasn’t been checked, but you’re going to test it. And then I said, supposing you brought the light inside the body, which you can do either through the skin or in some other way, and I think you said you’re going to test that too. It sounds interesting. ACTING UNDER SECRETARY BRYAN: We’ll get to the right folks who could. THE PRESIDENT: Right. And then I see the disinfectant, where it knocks it out in a minute. One minute. And is there a way we can do something like that, by injection inside or almost a cleaning. Because you see it gets in the lungs and it does a tremendous number on the lungs. So it would be interesting to check that. So, that, you’re going to have to use medical doctors with. But it sounds — it sounds interesting to me. So we’ll see. But the whole concept of the light, the way it kills it in one minute, that’s — that’s pretty powerful. [Emphases added]
On the most generous interpretation, that was an incredibly irresponsible comment. He is President of the United States. He should have been aware that there would be a lot of people out there who would take his remarks as indicating that bleach could be injected or ingested as a treatment for the disease. The subsequent calls to doctors and clinics made that clear. You frequently cite Plato's parable of the ship of state. Did he discuss what would happen if an otherwise unskilled demagogue were to take control of the vessel by manipulating the crew's sense of grievance into voting him in as master/helmsman, believing against all evidence that he could do no wrong? "Iceberg? What iceberg?" As for the efficacy of HCL cocktails in the treatment of COVID-19, we will have a much better understanding of their therapeutic value based on the weight of evidence from as many observational studies and gold-standard RCTs as possible. The data from studies by Drs Raoult and Zelenko will contribute to that but their maverick or anti-establishment images, while it may make them more appealing personalities to some, does not make their work any more or less reliable.Seversky
July 10, 2020
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Darwin devolves... Check this out: https://www.standard.co.uk/news/uk/study-francis-crick-institute-coronavirus-covid19-a4494336.htmljawa
July 10, 2020
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OT- Proof that Joshua Swamidass and Peaceful Science are willfully ignorant of ID concepts https://discourse.peacefulscience.org/t/open-challenge-to-id-advocates/1652:
The Puzzle Rules If you can’t solve this puzzle with an objective metric, it means you can’t objectively determine the CSI of objects. I do not think this is a solvable puzzle, but because I generated the sequences I know the right answer. For each of the following sequences, I know the correct CSI. I can give a few hints, and a promise: Each sequence has a different CSI, either 5, 10, 100, 150 or 200 bits of CSI to be precise. Each sequence was constructed with about five lines of python code. I’m saving the code used to generate this, and the answer key, and can produce it when you are done trying. Remember, it is not enough to just permute these 5 numbers and try all combinations. You have to produce an implementation of ASC that produces results (1) consistent with these numbers and (2) able to identify which ones have high CSI. Of course, you could submit a function that always emits zero. It would be less than CSI in all cases, but it would be unable to determine which sequences were high or low. If you cannot solve this puzzle (and I think it is impossible to solve), then it seems we have demonstrated that ASC cannot practically identify high CSI. The Sequences 98d50ad729eb9af79bedc1eb64d555083513057ddfa6e86892fc6360d843e168 ce98c8f3aaddcac18d724c93ccde9b5af87f1967fe4481700d0832c5b003f4a2 451834bb93b6de3e8f87255f14789b728b544304027343000e57eabba0573318 1319730bc751757d7ae1b1f21f81978b9a2ee6d96685f03afc93d257c7d21d66 19385699c280f99b6825aa165c38191b9d7b6f150cf504f25b9934e96b90261d Good luck, and share this widely in your networks.
1- CSI means there is specified information of 500 bits or more. Not one of Joshua's sequences hits that mark. 2- Science is not a parlor game 3- Function is based on OBSERVTION. As is SPECIFICATION. As Wm Dembski wrote:
Biological specification always refers to function. An organism is a functional system comprising many functional subsystems. In virtue of their function, these systems embody patterns that are objectively given and can be identified independently of the systems that embody them. Hence these systems are specified in the same sense required by the complexity-specification criterion (see sections 1.3 and 2.5). The specification of organisms can be cashed out in any number of ways. Arno Wouters cashes it out globally in terms of the viability of whole organisms. Michael Behe cashes it out in terms of minimal function of biochemical systems.- pg 148 No Free Lunch
Peaceful Science is ignorant of science and IDET
July 10, 2020
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Sev, your suggestion on bleach is a reckless falsehood, and one that has been corrected here at UD. Does that give you a clue as to why your credibility has to be regarded as nil? Where, BTW, Dr Raoult, a leading researcher in France and Dr Zelenko as well as many others are in fact medical doctors/practitioners. The net result has been that there was longstanding reason to see HCQ based cocktails as likely to be useful treatments, if given in good time; and, after all the huffing and puffing and blowing, that is effectively confirmed. It is interesting to see the refusal to accept that, especially given obvious politicisation driving the refusal. KFkairosfocus
July 10, 2020
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I knew a very smart guy as nice a person as you could imagine with a PhD in an aspect of physics. He was more an engineer than a basic scientist. He loved building practical things. He would defend scientists to the wall as committed to the truth. He was also a committed atheist. He has since passed away. We had discussions on evolution in which he defended Darwin blindly often incoherently. I never pushed too hard because he was such a nice guy and didn’t want to cause hard feelings. Winning arguments can often be counterproductive. But then came along the global warming debate and he would produce chapter and verse on why it was nonsense. Boy did he excoriate these scientists as nothing more than paid peddlers of a fake conspiracy. I used to smile inwardly as he was accusing scientists of being cowards and anything but defenders of the truth. We are certainly see that play out today.jerry
July 10, 2020
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The facts didn't make any difference. The riots made all the difference. Many ordinary people were still willing to trust "science" until the biggest and most dramatic CONTROLLED EXPERIMENT in all of social science. After the riots, everyone SAW WITH THEIR OWN EYES that the lockdowns and suicide masks had NOTHING to do with science or viruses. The lockdowns and suicide masks are SOLELY designed to humiliate and kill the Wrong Sort Of People while glorifying and enriching the Right Sort Of People. The only relevant variable is whether the governor thinks you're the Right Sort Of People or not.polistra
July 9, 2020
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Hold it wait just one moment “Far better to get your medical advice from President Trump. Just drink some bleach and you’ll be fine“ Now I want an answer to this But if my memory serves me right and I have a post about this on Facebook so I’m pretty sure it does serve me right Buuuuuuuuuut Didn’t cnn just post an article about how hydroxychloroquine actually did work?............ Weren’t you one of the ones that said Trump was just full of shit? Oh waIt! insulting Trump, even when he’s right always makes your point which was when scientists are crap, Trump is crappy here All of a sudden the problem of scientists doing bad science just goes away because trump does badder science and he dumb dumb So we have to settle for bad science because Trump’s science is worse This is your logic Yes or noAaronS1978
July 9, 2020
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Coppedge is right. Science ruled by materialism is nonsense. Good thing medical people do not rely on materialism nor evolutionism to make their medical judgements.ET
July 9, 2020
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Coppedge is right. Science is unreliable. Far better to get your medical advice from President Trump. Just drink some bleach and you'll be fine.Seversky
July 9, 2020
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