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COVID-19 and the need for skeptics in science

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Now more than ever:

Since World War II, America has suffered two respiratory pandemics comparable to COVID-19: the 1958 “Asian flu,” then the 1969 “Hong Kong flu.” In neither case did we shut down the economy—people were simply more careful. Not all that careful, of course—Jimi Hendrix was playing at Woodstock in the middle of the 1969 pandemic, and social distancing wasn’t really a thing in the “Summer of Love.”

And yet COVID-19 was very different thanks to a single “buggy mess” of a computer prediction from one Neil Ferguson, a British epidemiologist given to hysterical overestimates of deaths, from mad cow to bird flu to H1N1.

For COVID-19, Ferguson predicted 3 million deaths in America unless we basically shut down the economy. Panicked policymakers took his prediction as gospel, dressed as it was in the cloak of science.

Now, long after governments plunged half the world into a Great Depression, those panicked revisions are being quietly revised down by an order of magnitude, now suggesting a final tally comparable to 1958 and 1969.

COVID-19 would have been a deadly pandemic with or without Ferguson’s fantasies, but had we known the true scale and parameters of the threat we might have chosen better tailored means to both safeguard the elderly and at-risk, while sustaining the wider economy. After all, economists have long known that mass unemployment and widespread bankruptcies carry enormous health consequences that are very real to the victims suffering drained life savings, ruined businesses, broken families, widespread mental and physical health deterioration, even suicide. Decisions involve tradeoffs.

COVID-19 has illustrated the importance of free and robust inquiry…

Indeed, every major scientific advance challenged the “settled science” of its day, and was often denounced as pernicious and false, even dangerous. The modern blood transfusion, for example, was developed in the late 1600s, then banned for nearly a century by a hostile medical establishment, “canceling” tens of millions of lives at the altar of groupthink and hostility to skeptics.

Peter St. Onge, “The COVID-19 Panic Shows Us Why Science Needs Skeptics” at Mises Wire

The thing is, it used to just be sympathizers of some unpopular viewpoint like ID getting deplatformed. Now, COVID-19 has raised the stakes, with so many official sources demanding obedience to conflicting and wrong ideas. And our neighbors can’t afford to ignore just how destructive the establishment line, unfettered and unhinged, can be.

It’s a good time to talk to them about the problems with Establishment Science today. Too much arrogance and politicking; not enough humility or integrity.

Comments
What evidence, Bob? Have you seen the data on the patients' pH? Has anyone demonstrated that HCQ is not an ionophore? Has anyone demonstrated that the virus continues to replicate in the presence of zinc? Where is the data and science, Bob?ET
July 31, 2020
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Jerry @ 206 -
HCQ or not HCQ
Seeing as the preponderance of evidence is that it doesn't work, this is easy to answer. Really, when you're reduced to "[w]e also know there Is zero evidence that shows it does not work when used appropriately." without responding to the argument "Where “used appropriately” seems to be “used in a context that hasn’t been studied rigorously”" it's probably time to give up. kf - I have "acknowledge[d] the cumulative force of evidence of efficacy of HCQ+ cocktails for treating CV19". That's why I've been arguing that it shouldn't be used.Bob O'H
July 31, 2020
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BO'H: refusal to acknowledge the cumulative force of evidence of efficacy of HCQ+ cocktails for treating CV19 on your part does not overthrow the weight of that evidence. The Tuskegee syphilis atrocity should suffice to show the ethics-epistemology issues involved. KFkairosfocus
July 31, 2020
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HCQ or not HCQ What is going on is something like Pascal’s wager except this time we know that hell exists. The hell in this case is death due to the C19 virus. The wager is HCQ + zinc works or doesn’t. The outcome is nearly always continued life If it works. If it doesn’t work, the outcome is frequently death often painful. On the other side of the wager is only frequent death often painful. One side is let’s try and save hundreds of thousands of lives. The other side says let them die. That is the logic that is being argued by both sides. Let the distractions and diversions begin.jerry
July 31, 2020
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You mean Jerry trashing his credibility by repeatedly lying about me advocating for HCQ?
No lying. I’m saying you are endorsing by your actions. In college in a philosophy course on logic that was about a third on argumentation, one of the topics we covered was how when someone presents false arguments, the motivation is nearly always because there was no legitimate argument on their side. It’s called distraction and diversion. The implications of such an approach is that the other side is correct. So your words per se did not endorse HCQ but your actions have. An old English expression is that actions speak louder than words. So no lying and no lost of credibility due to that.jerry
July 31, 2020
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FYI, I gather perhaps 2500 people per year may die from Aspirin, where have you put on record your stringent objection to this drug, demanding that it be tightly restricted?
I haven't, because we also have good evidence that it works. And because the risks and benefits can be assessed, and that can change prescription practice.
Are you aware that, with 65 years of use, HCQ has in fact been OTC in many jurisdictions? What does that tell you?
That different jurisdictions have different standards for what can be sold OTC. I could imagine it being sold OTC in countries with high incidence of malaria, because that might be the most effective way of getting malaria treatments to the people who need it.
Do you understand how the pattern of your objections shows the breakdown of credibility in our public discourse on key issues?
You mean Jerry trashing his credibility by repeatedly lying about me advocating for HCQ?Bob O'H
July 31, 2020
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BO'H, you were in the room when ever so many times I described how the old pharmaco prof in my uni would open his course: Pharmacology is the study of poisons in small doses. That means, the issue is to manage the balance of therapeutic and toxic effects through managed dosage. It is obvious you have paid scant attention to Prof Risch's warranted remarks on toxicity and their context. That is itself a lesson as you have tried to dismiss his remarks without serious response. You have thus made yourself a case study on what is going wrong. FYI, I gather perhaps 2500 people per year may die from Aspirin, where have you put on record your stringent objection to this drug, demanding that it be tightly restricted? Are you aware that, with 65 years of use, HCQ has in fact been OTC in many jurisdictions? What does that tell you? Do you understand how the pattern of your objections shows the breakdown of credibility in our public discourse on key issues? KFkairosfocus
July 31, 2020
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Bob O’H has just again endorsed HCQ. He made several comments about HCQ, all bogus or irrelevant. Again failure to provide a relevant valid objection is tantamount to an endorsement for its use in treating the C19 virus when used appropriately.jerry
July 31, 2020
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Jerry -
We now know that HCQ is safe.
Aside from the side effects, of course. And (admittedly rare) sudden death from arrhythmias.
We also know there Is zero evidence that shows it does not work when used appropriately.
Where "used appropriately" seems to be "used in a context that hasn't been studied rigorously". Which would explain why there's zero evidence for it not not working, if there's zero evidence either way.
We also know that there are studies where it has a positive effect on lowering hospitalization and death.
And there are also studies showing no positive effect. The higher quality studies tend to show no positive effect.
We know several countries that have used it and have low death rates.
And several countries have not and have low death rates.
We have research studies both currently and from the past that says it works.
For lupus, yes. A rather different disease.Bob O'H
July 31, 2020
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F/N: Dr Birx now adds face shields to the list https://thehill.com/homenews/coronavirus-report/509752-birx-recommends-face-shields-to-protect-against-covid-19 Goggles as with gas masks would work similarly. I have for months worn fairly close fitting glasses. Of course, the huge hole in all of this was the special exemption made for riots, which shatters credibility of the technocrats. If face shields are advisable, the uncontrolled public gatherings were seriously dangerous and if they were not then the whole system collapses. KFkairosfocus
July 30, 2020
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RH7, it is clear that you have simply dismissed inconvenient but cumulatively decisive evidence and continue to try to drown it out. That tells us a lot, not so much about one commenter but about the effect of what has been done. It is clear the models were drastically wrong (think about why a "need" for 30k ventilators was projected for NY state and how a hospital ship ended up sitting essentially empty, or how patients were sent into nursing homes), the Chinese lied and so did senior officials with responsibility, most notably on the masks issue. Likewise the riots exemption shatters credibility of the technocrats. Their behaviour with HCQ+ has been deeply ill advised ethically and epistemologically and it is plain the lessons of the Tuskegee Syphilis atrocity have not been adequately learned. KF PS: As a reminder, Tuskegee, just so it won't be buried:
The U.S. Public Health Service Syphilis Study at Tuskegee was a clinical study conducted between 1932 and 1972 by the United States Public Health Service.[1][2] [–> 40 years of sustained wrong, which had to be enforced through a warped understanding of ethics and epistemology, with overtones of racism similar to medical experiments on concentration camp inmates] The purpose of this study was to observe the natural history of untreated syphilis [–> decades after effective treatments were routinised by the late 1940’s] ; the African-American men in the study were only told they were receiving free health care from the Federal government of the United States.[3]
[--> evil under false colour, robes and ceremonies of medicine and science; with calculated misleading as pivot, extracting manipulated consent that caused improper exposure to diseases treated ineffectively when ADEQUATE evidence . . . adequacy is not perfection . . . existed that better alternatives were available.]
The United States Public Health Service started the study in 1932 in collaboration with Tuskegee University (then the Tuskegee Institute), a historically black college in Alabama. [--> misuse of credibility] Investigators enrolled in the study a total of 600 impoverished, African-American sharecroppers from Macon County, Alabama.[3] Of these men, 399 had latent syphilis, with a control group of 201 men who were not infected.[2] [--> oh, yes, the gold standard was applied within the study and the study as a whole was itself a control on efficacy of other treatments: natural, untreated course] As an incentive for participation in the study, the men were promised free medical care, but were deceived by the PHS
[--> deception, a key to seeing the ethics failure and don't tell us oh deliberately mislabelled sugar pills etc are not deception under colour, robes and ceremonies of medicine and science]
, who disguised placebos, ineffective methods, and diagnostic procedures as treatment.[4]
[--> REPEAT: "who disguised placebos, ineffective methods, and diagnostic procedures as treatment"]
The men who had syphilis were never informed of their diagnosis, despite the risk of infecting others, and the fact that the disease could lead to blindness, deafness, mental illness, heart disease, bone deterioration, collapse of the central nervous system, and death.[5][6][7][8]
[--> are people being told that as you are high risk and CV19 is fast moving with damage already in lungs per Raoult's 2000+ CT scans on 500+ patients, when symptoms emerge? That death is a significant, rapid potential outcome on placebos? that HCQ+ cocktails have several lines of evidence pointing to likely rapidly acting efficacy?]
According to the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention, the men were told that they were being treated for "bad blood,” a colloquialism that described various conditions such as syphilis, anemia and fatigue. "Bad blood"—specifically the collection of illnesses the term included—was a leading cause of death within the southern African-American community.[2] The men were initially told that the study was only going to last six months, but it was extended to 40 years.[2] After funding for treatment was lost, the study was continued without informing the men that they would never be treated. None of the infected men were treated with penicillin despite the fact that by 1947, the antibiotic had become the standard treatment for syphilis.[9]
[--> so, what about the cumulative body of evidence since 2005 on likely efficacy of HCQ+ cocktails? Or, is that to be branded with a scarlet letter, dismissed as not meeting the gold standard that rests on deceptive practice . . . MISLABELLED, ineffective pseudo treatments in the face of life/death are deceptive . . . then marginalised and censored?]
Study clinicians could have chosen to treat all syphilitic subjects and close the study, or split off a control group for testing with penicillin. Instead, they continued the study without treating any participants; they withheld treatment and information about it from the subjects.
[--> So, how much more is it to be challenged when in the face of cumulative evidence of efficacy, treatments are sidelined and it is demanded that people subject themselves to life/death situations to "prove" what is already readily shown, save where studies are fail-by-design: too late in the U/L trajectory, wrong demographic, dubious statistics like Lancet, etc?]
In addition, scientists prevented participants from accessing syphilis treatment programs available to other residents in the area.[10] The study continued, under numerous Public Health Service supervisors, until 1972, when a leak to the press resulted in its termination on November 16 of that year.[11] The victims of the study, all African-American, included numerous men who died of syphilis, 40 wives who contracted the disease and 19 children born with congenital syphilis.[12] The 40-year Tuskegee Study of Untreated Syphilis in the African American Male study was a major violation of ethical standards. [--> ethical failure] Researchers knowingly failed to treat participants appropriately [--> oh, how familiar] after penicillin was proven [--> empirical investigations cannot prove but can warrant a prudent conclusion] to be an effective treatment for syphilis and became widely available.[9] [--> how widely accessible are elements of HCQ cocktails? I submit, quite widely] Moreover, participants remained ignorant of the study clinicians’ true purpose, which was to observe the natural course of untreated syphilis.[3] [--> deception, deception, deception is deception] The revelation in 1972 of study failures by a whistleblower, Peter Buxtun, [--> So, how are whistleblowers currently being treated? see how it pinches when the shoe is on the other foot?] led to major changes in U.S. law and regulation concerning the protection of participants in clinical studies. Now studies require informed consent [--> what, really, is properly informed consent given what we are seeing now?],[13] communication of diagnosis and accurate reporting of test results.[14] [--> what about the right to access the best evidence and accessible treatments in the face of emerging pandemic?] The U.S. Public Health Service Syphilis Study at Tuskegee, cited as "arguably the most infamous biomedical research study in U.S. history,"
kairosfocus
July 30, 2020
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We now know that HCQ is safe. We also know there Is zero evidence that shows it does not work when used appropriately. We also know that there are studies where it has a positive effect on lowering hospitalization and death. We know several countries that have used it and have low death rates. We have research studies both currently and from the past that says it works. Given this it would be insane not to use it especially with zinc. Those who propose it as a treatment for C19 appropriately used are offering hope based on a ton of information. Those against it are offering despair and sure death for tens of thousands who are infected by the virus based on bogus information. So we have hope vs despair. We have people living vs people dying by the tens of thousands. Decide which side you are on.jerry
July 30, 2020
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Setting aside the politics, Spectrum News asked two University at Buffalo doctors if hydroxychloroquine was effective in fighting coronavirus. "It's been probably more researched than any other drug that we've been evaluating for COVID," UB Division of Infectious Disease Chief Dr. Thomas Russo said. Russo said the medical community was rooting for hydroxychloroquine to work because it's a generic drug, widely available, and can be taken in pill form. "It held tremendous promise and we were all excited about the possibility that this could really help us in this battle against COVID. Unfortunately the preponderance of evidence to this date does not support that," he said. UB Senior Associate Dean for Clinical Affairs Dr. Kevin Gibbons said early on doctors were treating patients with the drug, but they've since learned more and studies that have suggested it does not work have been more scientifically sound than any that suggest the opposite. "The best evidence we have is that it's not of benefit. Now the good news is although there are side effects to this medication and there is a cardiac risk factor for sudden death from arrhythmias, the incidents of that actually appear to be quite low," Gibbons said. Russo said the study also doesn't support hydroxychloroquine as a preventive drug. He said people should be cynical of testimonials from doctors or patients they see online. "Anecdotal and testimonial medicine is medicine of the 50s and 60s," he said. "That is no longer the way we practice medicine." https://spectrumlocalnews.com/nys/central-ny/politics/2020/07/29/ub-doctors-give-facts-about-hydroxychloroquine-and-covidrhampton7
July 30, 2020
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Everything that Ronni Gamzu, the new coronavirus “czar,” said at his news conference in Jerusalem on Monday made sense. He unveiled what he called a “Shield of Israel” strategic plan, calling for a new social contract between those managing the coronavirus crisis and the public, ordering the IDF to take over testing and tracing, and pledging more oversight while gathering and presenting data logically and transparently. Speaking after Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu and Alternate Prime Minister and Defense Minister Benny Gantz, Gamzu urged citizens to always wear protective face masks, showing on a graph that countries that have enforced mask-wearing rules have seen a decline in their infection rates. Although we and others, including President Reuven Rivlin, have been saying this repeatedly ever since the national-unity government was established in May, let’s say it again: Now is the time to put politics aside for the sake of the whole country and its citizens. Our government should from now on listen closely to Prof. Gamzu and we should all follow his instructions. Gamzu himself said he is putting past mistakes aside and looking ahead to concentrate on creating a better future for us all. https://www.jpost.com/opinion/for-gamzu-to-win-govt-needs-to-get-politics-out-of-the-way-636957rhampton7
July 30, 2020
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The economic crisis spawned by the coronavirus pandemic has hit Israel’s lower-middle class the hardest, according to a new analysis by the Bank of Israel. Beyond the culture and entertainment industries, which have not yet reopened, or hospitality, which has been placed under strict limitations, many of the jobs lost are in usually solid fields such as real estate, banking, insurance and financial services, information and communication. The people least affected by the crisis are upper-middle and upper-class Israelis — those in the ninth and 10th income deciles, found the report. https://www.haaretz.com/israel-news/business/.premium-lower-middle-class-israelis-hardest-hit-financially-by-virus-crisis-report-says-1.9031369rhampton7
July 30, 2020
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Prevea Health President and CEO Dr. Ashok Rai: "I think it's really important for us to make sure we have good scientific knowledge and basis for our recommendations in health care because people do listen to us, and it's dangerous if we say the wrong things. “The physicians there were saying things about hydroxychloroquine in specific that made the medical community uncomfortable because there are dangers associated with it. The way the drug was being recommended, the way that it was being talked about, really wasn’t based on the research. Some there may quote the recent study through Henry Ford Health System in Detroit where it talks about how it did decrease mortality. But it’s important to understand when you read that study, it’s talking about they use it in the hospital. They did not randomize their patients. And they specifically in that study say you need another study to prove its safety and that it works. And that’s what we saw in the New England Journal of Medicine where they actually did randomize people in different pools. They showed it didn’t work and it could cause harm. That’s how we base our medical decisions. You can’t just base it on what you’ve observed, because there is long-term harm. And that’s why those videos were pulled.” https://www.wbay.com/2020/07/30/dr-rai-talks-hydroxychloroquine-and-new-technology-on-tracking-covid-19/rhampton7
July 30, 2020
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“What I think about that video, to be perfectly honest, as someone who does not usually say very judgmental things, is I think it is very irresponsible and despicable,” said UAB Dr. Marazzo, who attended both Harvard and Yale. Two main claims were made in the video, one that hydroxychloroquine is a “cure” for COVID-19 and that mask-wearing is unnecessary. “Getting up there and distributing information with the badge of their white coats and their degrees behind them, to me, it’s one of the few things that really, really upsets me,” she said. She added that it violates the oath they took as doctors, the first part of which is "do no harm." As for hydroxychloroquine, she says she wishes there were a cure, but there is not one yet. “We have excellent high level evidence from clinical trials showing that it doesn’t work,” said Dr. Marazzo. https://www.wtvy.com/2020/07/30/uab-doctor-calls-viral-video-claiming-hydroxychloroquine-is-a-cure-despicable/rhampton7
July 30, 2020
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A leader in the fight against COVID-19 in Nashville is debunking claims made in a since deleted viral video that touted hydroxychloroquine as a COVID-19 "cure" and said "you don't need to wear a mask." Dr. Alex Jahangir, the chair of the Metro Coronavirus Task Force, has urged the importance of wearing masks and reports daily virus cases and trends in the city. "I honestly don’t even want to speak any more about those statements because they’re just 15 minutes of fame seeking," Dr. Jahangir said. "Regarding hydroxychloroquine, listen, all trials have shown it not to be an effective treatment for COVID-19," Dr. Jahangir said. "In fact, if I’m not mistaken, the FDA actually pulled any approval they had given for that trial. So, it’s not an effective drug. It’s not an effective trial." As Dr. Jahangir said trials have shown that not to be correct, Nashville will continue to use science and date in response to coronavirus. "We are approaching this with science with data, that is how the medical community is approaching how the mayor is approaching it, how the governor is approaching it, it’s how others are approaching it," Dr. Jahngir said. http://fox17.com/news/local/nashville-covid-19-task-force-leaderrhampton7
July 30, 2020
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KF, No one wants to be the person that says, screw it, let it happen and **when** it overwhelms the hospitals and burns out the medical professionals, then those that die (or develop long term organ damage) are just part of “our” sacrifice. Do you have the guts to do that? President Trump doesn’t and neither does PM Netenyahu.rhampton7
July 30, 2020
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I have no idea where people get their news but there are several sites that have just the facts of the virus not the spin. Some are medical sites. Here is something I wrote several days ago about the virus. ———— Several things. Probably more. 1) C19 is very infectious. Probably a lot of other viruses are equally infectious. H1N1 was extremely infectious less than 10 years ago. Many common colds seem to spread quickly. 2) Like other infectious viruses the immune system eventually defeats the virus in most cases. However, it seems that a significant portion of the population’s immune system does not defeat C19 very quickly. They seem mostly to be older people. Most new cases are much younger so less likely to become serious. Doing research on people not likely to have the virus progress is worthless research even if designed well. 3) The C19 virus attacks an important enzyme on certain cell types that has at least two effects. It enables entry to cell and mass replication which destroys the cell. It also inhibits the function of the enzyme which leads to disruption of several processes that lead to clotting and cardiovascular problems. Maybe more effects but these two alone will cause lasting issues and death if immune system does not kill it. 4) there are drugs that interfere with these two effects of the virus when used appropriately. One is HCQ and another is zinc. Remdesivir and ivermectin are two others. They are finding several others that also interfere with the virus’s actions. So there are potential cures available and more coming. 5) Opposition to the use of these drugs seems to be political as opposed to medical. There also seems to be financial reasons to oppose or promote certain treatments/drugs. The opposition continually brings up irrelevant research which means either they are not conversant on the virus or have an agenda. Most likely the latter. Doing research on these drugs after the virus progressed to where they are unlikely to work is also worthless research. But people everywhere continually cite these irrelevant and thus worthless research. Why? 6) there seems to be no one in world who has a complete grasp on what to do. So blaming Trump is fatuous who is essentially taking advice from government officials who have been publicly inconsistent. For example, no one in authority has a grasp on how to treat the virus since even today there is no official treatment other than palliative or what is called standard care despite the drugs mentioned above being available. 7) no one has a good grasp on the cost benefits of any of the social and economic recommendations being put forward. Obviously people are dying from the virus but maybe far more will or have died from the economic consequences of trying to contain the virus. So no doctor or expert in infectious diseases or economist or politician can have any reliable understanding of what trying to contain the virus will do either medically, socially or economically. More and more statistics are coming out that are damning. One is the increase in homicides on men under 35 is higher than deaths due to C19 amongst this age group. 8) people want answers but in reality no one on Earth has the answers.jerry
July 30, 2020
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Jerry, I find points 1 - 8, 19 and 25 ff particularly interesting given parallel developments:
According to the latest immunological studies, the overall lethality of Covid-19 (IFR) is about 0.1% and thus in the range of a severe influenza (flu). For people at high risk or high exposure (including health care workers), early or prophylactic treatment is essential. In countries like the US, the UK, and also Sweden (without a lockdown), overall mortality since the beginning of the year is in the range of a strong influenza season; in countries like Germany, Austria and Switzerland, overall mortality is in the range of a mild influenza season. Even in global “hotspots”, the risk of death for the general population of school and working age is typically in the range of a daily car ride to work. The risk was initially overestimated because many people with only mild or no symptoms were not taken into account. Up to 80% of all test-positive persons remain symptom-free. Even among 70-79 year olds, about 60% remain symptom-free. About 95% of all people develop at most moderate symptoms. Up to 60% of all persons may already have a certain cellular background immunity to the new coronavirus due to contact with previous coronaviruses (i.e. common cold viruses). The initial assumption that there was no immunity against the new coronavirus was not correct. The median age of the deceased in most countries (including Italy) is over 80 years (e.g. 86 years in Sweden) and only about 4% of the deceased had no serious preconditions. The age and risk profile of deaths thus essentially corresponds to normal mortality. In many countries, up to two thirds of all extra deaths occurred in nursing homes, which do not benefit from a general lockdown. Moreover, in many cases it is not clear whether these people really died from Covid-19 or from weeks of extreme stress and isolation. Up to 30% of all additional deaths may have been caused not by Covid-19, but by the effects of the lockdown, panic and fear. For example, the treatment of heart attacks and strokes decreased by up to 60% because many patients no longer dared to go to hospital. . . . . Several media were caught trying to dramatize the situation in hospitals, sometimes even with manipulative images and videos. In general, the unprofessional reporting of many media maximized fear and panic in the population . . . . A global respiratory disease pandemic can indeed extend over several seasons, but many studies of a “second wave” are based on very unrealistic assumptions, such as a constant risk of illness and death across all age groups. In places like New York City, nurses described an oftentimes fatal medical mis­manage­ment of Covid patients due to questionable financial incentives or inappropriate medical protocols. On the other hand, early treatment with zinc and HCQ turned out to be effective after all. The number of people suffering from unemployment, depressions and domestic violence as a result of the measures has reached historic record levels. Several experts predict that the measures will claim far more lives than the virus itself. According to the UN 1.6 billion people around the world are at immediate risk of losing their livelihood. NSA whistleblower Edward Snowden warned that the “corona crisis” will be used for the permanent expansion of global surveillance. Renowned virologist Pablo Goldschmidt spoke of a “global media terror” and “totalitarian measures”. Leading British virologist Professor John Oxford spoke of a “media epidemic”. More than 600 scientists have warned of an “unprecedented surveillance of society” through problematic apps for “contact tracing”. In some countries, such “contact tracing” is carried out directly by the secret service. In several parts of the world, the population is being monitored by drones and facing serious police overreach during lockdowns. A 2019 WHO study on public health measures against pandemic influenza found that from a medical perspective, “contact tracing” is “not recommended in any circumstances”. Nevertheless, contact tracing apps have already become partially mandatory in several countries.
We need to ask, who hope to benefit from panic, and what is the source of the concept, never let a crisis go to waste, i/l/o thesis-antithesis-synthesis. KF PS: What are you prepared to bet that background data were not available to players in the power games long since? Mix in the big exception on lockdown.kairosfocus
July 30, 2020
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Hundreds of links and a long discussion on C19 by a Swiss medical organization. https://swprs.org/a-swiss-doctor-on-covid-19/ People should look at for their answers. It was posted before.jerry
July 30, 2020
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Institutions such as the government, the medical community, health organizations, think tanks, research groups, academia and the news media have been caught in countless lies and deceptions for decades - honestly, since forever. It surprises me that anyone finds such sources credible, especially when there is so much money and power on the line.William J Murray
July 30, 2020
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Kf, Bob O’H has endorsed HCQ several times. By pointing to fake studies, which he knows are fake he essentially has said there is no evidence against HCQ. Otherwise he would present the evidence. By not being able to cite evidence against HCQ, one is essentially endorsing it.jerry
July 30, 2020
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BO'H: your implicit appeal to the gold standard fallacy to dismiss evidence that is cumulatively solid, brings up the issue of the pivotal case on ethics-epistemological failure for epidemiology and related disciplines, the Tuskegee syphilis atrocity. Wikipedia, against interest:
The U.S. Public Health Service Syphilis Study at Tuskegee was a clinical study conducted between 1932 and 1972 by the United States Public Health Service.[1][2] [--> 40 years of sustained wrong, which had to be enforced through a warped understanding of ethics and epistemology, with overtones of racism similar to medical experiments on concentration camp inmates] The purpose of this study was to observe the natural history of untreated syphilis [--> decades after effective treatments were routinised by the late 1940's] ; the African-American men in the study were only told they were receiving free health care from the Federal government of the United States.[3]
[--> evil under false colour, robes and ceremonies of medicine and science; with calculated misleading as pivot, extracting manipulated consent that caused improper exposure to diseases treated ineffectively when ADEQUATE evidence . . . adequacy is not perfection . . . existed that better alternatives were available.]
The United States Public Health Service started the study in 1932 in collaboration with Tuskegee University (then the Tuskegee Institute), a historically black college in Alabama. [--> misuse of credibility] Investigators enrolled in the study a total of 600 impoverished, African-American sharecroppers from Macon County, Alabama.[3] Of these men, 399 had latent syphilis, with a control group of 201 men who were not infected.[2] [--> oh, yes, the gold standard was applied within the study and the study as a whole was itself a control on efficacy of other treatments: natural, untreated course] As an incentive for participation in the study, the men were promised free medical care, but were deceived by the PHS
[--> deception, a key to seeing the ethics failure and don't tell us oh deliberately mislabelled sugar pills etc are not deception under colour, robes and ceremonies of medicine and science]
, who disguised placebos, ineffective methods, and diagnostic procedures as treatment.[4]
[--> REPEAT: "who disguised placebos, ineffective methods, and diagnostic procedures as treatment"]
The men who had syphilis were never informed of their diagnosis, despite the risk of infecting others, and the fact that the disease could lead to blindness, deafness, mental illness, heart disease, bone deterioration, collapse of the central nervous system, and death.[5][6][7][8]
[--> are people being told that as you are high risk and CV19 is fast moving with damage already in lungs per Raoult's 2000+ CT scans on 500+ patients, when symptoms emerge? That death is a significant, rapid potential outcome on placebos? that HCQ+ cocktails have several lines of evidence pointing to likely rapidly acting efficacy?]
According to the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention, the men were told that they were being treated for "bad blood,” a colloquialism that described various conditions such as syphilis, anemia and fatigue. "Bad blood"—specifically the collection of illnesses the term included—was a leading cause of death within the southern African-American community.[2] The men were initially told that the study was only going to last six months, but it was extended to 40 years.[2] After funding for treatment was lost, the study was continued without informing the men that they would never be treated. None of the infected men were treated with penicillin despite the fact that by 1947, the antibiotic had become the standard treatment for syphilis.[9]
[--> so, what about the cumulative body of evidence since 2005 on likely efficacy of HCQ+ cocktails? Or, is that to be branded with a scarlet letter, dismissed as not meeting the gold standard that rests on deceptive practice . . . MISLABELLED, ineffective pseudo treatments in the face of life/death are deceptive . . . then marginalised and censored?]
Study clinicians could have chosen to treat all syphilitic subjects and close the study, or split off a control group for testing with penicillin. Instead, they continued the study without treating any participants; they withheld treatment and information about it from the subjects.
[--> So, how much more is it to be challenged when in the face of cumulative evidence of efficacy, treatments are sidelined and it is demanded that people subject themselves to life/death situations to "prove" what is already readily shown, save where studies are fail-by-design: too late in the U/L trajectory, wrong demographic, dubious statistics like Lancet, etc?]
In addition, scientists prevented participants from accessing syphilis treatment programs available to other residents in the area.[10] The study continued, under numerous Public Health Service supervisors, until 1972, when a leak to the press resulted in its termination on November 16 of that year.[11] The victims of the study, all African-American, included numerous men who died of syphilis, 40 wives who contracted the disease and 19 children born with congenital syphilis.[12] The 40-year Tuskegee Study of Untreated Syphilis in the African American Male study was a major violation of ethical standards. [--> ethical failure] Researchers knowingly failed to treat participants appropriately [--> oh, how familiar] after penicillin was proven [--> empirical investigations cannot prove but can warrant a prudent conclusion] to be an effective treatment for syphilis and became widely available.[9] [--> how widely accessible are elements of HCQ cocktails? I submit, quite widely] Moreover, participants remained ignorant of the study clinicians’ true purpose, which was to observe the natural course of untreated syphilis.[3] [--> deception, deception, deception is deception] The revelation in 1972 of study failures by a whistleblower, Peter Buxtun, [--> So, how are whistleblowers currently being treated? see how it pinches when the shoe is on the other foot?] led to major changes in U.S. law and regulation concerning the protection of participants in clinical studies. Now studies require informed consent [--> what, really, is properly informed consent given what we are seeing now?],[13] communication of diagnosis and accurate reporting of test results.[14] [--> what about the right to access the best evidence and accessible treatments in the face of emerging pandemic?] The U.S. Public Health Service Syphilis Study at Tuskegee, cited as "arguably the most infamous biomedical research study in U.S. history,"
You are forcing me to draw some unpalatable but warranted conclusions. KFkairosfocus
July 30, 2020
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RH7, there is another suppressed side, there is now reason to believe deaths of despair are topping deaths actually due to -- as opposed to merely with -- CV19. This reflects the decision challenge of dismal calculus. Large losses are inevitable once a pandemic breaks out, so the issue is the tradeoff between pandemic losses and losses due to destabilisation of economy and society with further global losses . . . including from famine . . . if deep sustained recession is triggered, i.e. depression. It is the partyline onesidedness that is telling us that something is deeply wrong. On lockdowns, the technocrat advocates who were jumping all over orderly protests triggered by dislocation losses and were clamping down on going to church SUDDENLY were making an exception for protests that rapidly turned into Red Guard riots. Then, there was the outright lying on efficacy of masks. In short the technocrats shattered their credibility. Resort to censorship and outright slander on Dr Risch, Dr Raoult, Dr Zelenko and ever so many others simply underscores that situation. Enabling behaviour for censorship, slander, ideological inconsistency and more simply tells us that we are not dealing with soundness but ill-founded ideology. KFkairosfocus
July 30, 2020
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BO'H, see what I am saying? Now, Twitter has been locking people down for the thought crime of simply pointing out that credible sources are reaching a different conclusion from the partyline. CENSORSHIP AND SLANDER. So, I have every right to point out what could credibly have averted at least tens of thousands of needless deaths: ******** https://www.newsweek.com/key-defeating-covid-19-already-exists-we-need-start-using-it-opinion-1519535 >>The Key to Defeating COVID-19 Already Exists. We Need to Start Using It | Opinion Harvey A. Risch, MD, PhD , Professor of Epidemiology, Yale School of Public Health On 7/23/20 at 7:00 AM EDT As professor of epidemiology at Yale School of Public Health, I have authored over 300 peer-reviewed publications and currently hold senior positions on the editorial boards of several leading journals. I am usually accustomed to advocating for positions within the mainstream of medicine, so have been flummoxed to find that, in the midst of a crisis, I am fighting for a treatment that the data fully support but which, for reasons having nothing to do with a correct understanding of the science, has been pushed to the sidelines. As a result, tens of thousands of patients with COVID-19 are dying unnecessarily. Fortunately, the situation can be reversed easily and quickly. I am referring, of course, to the medication hydroxychloroquine. When this inexpensive oral medication is given very early in the course of illness, before the virus has had time to multiply beyond control, it has shown to be highly effective, especially when given in combination with the antibiotics azithromycin or doxycycline and the nutritional supplement zinc. On May 27, I published an article in the American Journal of Epidemiology (AJE) entitled, “Early Outpatient Treatment of Symptomatic, High-Risk COVID-19 Patients that Should be Ramped-Up Immediately as Key to the Pandemic Crisis.” That article, published in the world’s leading epidemiology journal, analyzed five studies, demonstrating clear-cut and significant benefits to treated patients, plus other very large studies that showed the medication safety. Physicians who have been using these medications in the face of widespread skepticism have been truly heroic. They have done what the science shows is best for their patients, often at great personal risk. I myself know of two doctors who have saved the lives of hundreds of patients with these medications, but are now fighting state medical boards to save their licenses and reputations. The cases against them are completely without scientific merit. Since publication of my May 27 article, seven more studies have demonstrated similar benefit. In a lengthy follow-up letter, also published by AJE, I discuss these seven studies and renew my call for the immediate early use of hydroxychloroquine in high-risk patients. These seven studies include: an additional 400 high-risk patients treated by Dr. Vladimir Zelenko, with zero deaths; four studies totaling almost 500 high-risk patients treated in nursing homes and clinics across the U.S., with no deaths; a controlled trial of more than 700 high-risk patients in Brazil, with significantly reduced risk of hospitalization and two deaths among 334 patients treated with hydroxychloroquine; and another study of 398 matched patients in France, also with significantly reduced hospitalization risk. Since my letter was published, even more doctors have reported to me their completely successful use . . . . Beyond these studies of individual patients, we have seen what happens in large populations when these drugs are used. These have been “natural experiments.” In the northern Brazil state of Pará, COVID-19 deaths were increasing exponentially. On April 6, the public hospital network purchased 75,000 doses of azithromycin and 90,000 doses of hydroxychloroquine. Over the next few weeks, authorities began distributing these medications to infected individuals. Even though new cases continued to occur, on May 22 the death rate started to plummet and is now about one-eighth what it was at the peak. A reverse natural experiment happened in Switzerland. On May 27, the Swiss national government banned outpatient use of hydroxychloroquine for COVID-19. Around June 10, COVID-19 deaths increased four-fold and remained elevated. On June 11, the Swiss government revoked the ban, and on June 23 the death rate reverted to what it had been beforehand. People who die from COVID-19 live about three to five weeks from the start of symptoms, which makes the evidence of a causal relation in these experiments strong. Both episodes suggest that a combination of hydroxychloroquine and its companion medications reduces mortality and should be immediately adopted as the new standard of care in high-risk patients .>> What is being drowned out. And, again: >>Why has hydroxychloroquine been disregarded? First, as all know, the medication has become highly politicized. For many, it is viewed as a marker of political identity, on both sides of the political spectrum. Nobody needs me to remind them that this is not how medicine should proceed. We must judge this medication strictly on the science. When doctors graduate from medical school, they formally promise to make the health and life of the patient their first consideration, without biases of race, religion, nationality, social standing—or political affiliation. Lives must come first. Second, the drug has not been used properly in many studies. Hydroxychloroquine has shown major success when used early in high-risk people but, as one would expect for an antiviral, much less success when used late in the disease course. Even so, it has demonstrated significant benefit in large hospital studies in Michigan and New York City when started within the first 24 to 48 hours after admission. In fact, as inexpensive, oral and widely available medications, and a nutritional supplement, the combination of hydroxychloroquine, azithromycin or doxycycline, and zinc are well-suited for early treatment in the outpatient setting. The combination should be prescribed in high-risk patients immediately upon clinical suspicion of COVID-19 disease, without waiting for results of testing. Delays in waiting before starting the medications can reduce their efficacy. Third, concerns have been raised by the FDA and others about risks of cardiac arrhythmia, especially when hydroxychloroquine is given in combination with azithromycin. The FDA based its comments on data in its FDA Adverse Event Reporting System. This reporting system captured up to a thousand cases of arrhythmias attributed to hydroxychloroquine use. In fact, the number is likely higher than that, since the reporting system, which requires physicians or patients to initiate contact with the FDA, appreciably undercounts drug side effects. But what the FDA did not announce is that these adverse events were generated from tens of millions of patient uses of hydroxychloroquine for long periods of time, often for the chronic treatment of lupus or rheumatoid arthritis. Even if the true rates of arrhythmia are ten-fold higher than those reported, the harms would be minuscule compared to the mortality occurring right now in inadequately treated high-risk COVID-19 patients. This fact is proven by an Oxford University study of more than 320,000 older patients taking both hydroxychloroquine and azithromycin, who had arrhythmia excess death rates of less than 9/100,000 users, as I discuss in my May 27 paper cited above. A new paper in the American Journal of Medicine by established cardiologists around the world fully agrees with this. In the future, I believe this misbegotten episode regarding hydroxychloroquine will be studied by sociologists of medicine as a classic example of how extra-scientific factors overrode clear-cut medical evidence. But for now, reality demands a clear, scientific eye on the evidence and where it points . . . >> I think there are a few questions to be asked and answered. The May 27, 2020 paper: >> Am J Epidemiol . 2020 May 27;kwaa093. doi: 10.1093/aje/kwaa093. Online ahead of print. Early Outpatient Treatment of Symptomatic, High-Risk Covid-19 Patients that Should be Ramped-Up Immediately as Key to the Pandemic Crisis Harvey A Risch 1 Affiliations PMID: 32458969 DOI: 10.1093/aje/kwaa093 Abstract More than 1.6 million Americans have been infected with SARS-CoV-2 and GT 10 times that number carry antibodies to it. High-risk patients presenting with progressing symptomatic disease have only hospitalization treatment with its high mortality. An outpatient treatment that prevents hospitalization is desperately needed. Two candidate medications have been widely discussed: remdesivir, and hydroxychloroquine+azithromycin. Remdesivir has shown mild effectiveness in hospitalized inpatients, but no trials have been registered in outpatients. Hydroxychloroquine+azithromycin has been widely misrepresented in both clinical reports and public media, and outpatient trials results are not expected until September. Early outpatient illness is very different than later hospitalized florid disease and the treatments differ. Evidence about use of hydroxychloroquine alone, or of hydroxychloroquine+azithromycin in inpatients, is irrelevant concerning efficacy of the pair in early high-risk outpatient disease. Five studies, including two controlled clinical trials, have demonstrated significant major outpatient treatment efficacy. Hydroxychloroquine+azithromycin has been used as standard-of-care in more than 300,000 older adults with multicomorbidities, with estimated proportion diagnosed with cardiac arrhythmias attributable to the medications 47/100,000 users, of which estimated mortality is LT 20%, 9/100,000 users, compared to the 10,000 Americans now dying each week. These medications need to be widely available and promoted immediately for physicians to prescribe. >> It is time to face responsibility for needless politicisation and polarisation of discussion over a manifestly effective treatment and needless deaths by at least tens of thousands. There will be a day of reckoning over such culpable irresponsibility. *************** I think astute readers will be able to see for themselves -- on evidence just summarised and from other similarly serious sources -- that something is very wrong with the partyline narrative. KFkairosfocus
July 30, 2020
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Bob - it's herd immunity, not heard. Also, where does this 5m deaths come from? Even the worst case scenario for the US was suggesting only about 2m deaths? And what projections suggested a 50% mortality rate?Bob O'H
July 30, 2020
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Heard immunity takes time and Sweden knew they would get some spikes early, but the leveling off to almost nothing was what they were going for. The projections were not 5,000 dead by this time, but 5,000,000. The projections claimed that half of Sweden's population would die as a result of not locking down. They did not succumb to fear and handled this coronavirus the same way as they have all others. Spreading fear costs lives through increased suicide and ODs. Shutting down an economy costs people their livelihoods and increases the homeless rate. There has been an increase in abuse, which has cost lives. Anyone who believes shutting down an economy and spreading fear does not care about loss of life. They want a reduction of the population and any excuse is as good as the next. If the elderly really mattered, they would not be shutting them inside with others for long periods of time, since that increases the risk of getting sick.BobRyan
July 30, 2020
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BO’H: can you kindly stop evading the force of what Dr Risch and others have to say, and their warranted conclusion that HCQ based cocktails, duly administered, credibly have good effect on the whole?
I have been - basically, their conclusion isn't warranted. There are several studies that are simply ignored that show no effect, and the studies Risch cite are not high quality (e.g. the original Raoult paper, his follow-up without a control group, and the Brazilian tele-medicine "study", and the Zelenko study where we know nothing about the control group, so we don't know if it's at all similar to the treated patients).Bob O'H
July 30, 2020
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