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COVID-19 and the need for skeptics in science

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Now more than ever:

Since World War II, America has suffered two respiratory pandemics comparable to COVID-19: the 1958 “Asian flu,” then the 1969 “Hong Kong flu.” In neither case did we shut down the economy—people were simply more careful. Not all that careful, of course—Jimi Hendrix was playing at Woodstock in the middle of the 1969 pandemic, and social distancing wasn’t really a thing in the “Summer of Love.”

And yet COVID-19 was very different thanks to a single “buggy mess” of a computer prediction from one Neil Ferguson, a British epidemiologist given to hysterical overestimates of deaths, from mad cow to bird flu to H1N1.

For COVID-19, Ferguson predicted 3 million deaths in America unless we basically shut down the economy. Panicked policymakers took his prediction as gospel, dressed as it was in the cloak of science.

Now, long after governments plunged half the world into a Great Depression, those panicked revisions are being quietly revised down by an order of magnitude, now suggesting a final tally comparable to 1958 and 1969.

COVID-19 would have been a deadly pandemic with or without Ferguson’s fantasies, but had we known the true scale and parameters of the threat we might have chosen better tailored means to both safeguard the elderly and at-risk, while sustaining the wider economy. After all, economists have long known that mass unemployment and widespread bankruptcies carry enormous health consequences that are very real to the victims suffering drained life savings, ruined businesses, broken families, widespread mental and physical health deterioration, even suicide. Decisions involve tradeoffs.

COVID-19 has illustrated the importance of free and robust inquiry…

Indeed, every major scientific advance challenged the “settled science” of its day, and was often denounced as pernicious and false, even dangerous. The modern blood transfusion, for example, was developed in the late 1600s, then banned for nearly a century by a hostile medical establishment, “canceling” tens of millions of lives at the altar of groupthink and hostility to skeptics.

Peter St. Onge, “The COVID-19 Panic Shows Us Why Science Needs Skeptics” at Mises Wire

The thing is, it used to just be sympathizers of some unpopular viewpoint like ID getting deplatformed. Now, COVID-19 has raised the stakes, with so many official sources demanding obedience to conflicting and wrong ideas. And our neighbors can’t afford to ignore just how destructive the establishment line, unfettered and unhinged, can be.

It’s a good time to talk to them about the problems with Establishment Science today. Too much arrogance and politicking; not enough humility or integrity.

Comments
it’s bizarre
The claim is correct and uses official Florida statistics. It is supported by the charts you referenced which use different y axis values and are not comparable on a visual basis. (18,000 600 180) Yes, deaths have risen. This was always the expectations from opening up. If proper treatment is given, it would have probably been a lot less.jerry
July 20, 2020
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Barry @ 11 - Your "move the goalposts much" comment is a nice touch, when rather than respond to my comments about Trump, you decide to bring Pelosi into this. Which prediction of Ferguson's do you mean? The headline prediction of 2m deaths in the US was based on the US doing nothing, which didn't happen. I don't know if anyone has checked his models with the actual responses, but my guess is that they would still over-predict deaths. But at least they did predict an epidemic, with a lot of people dying. The models have also been right in suggesting mitigation strategies (social distancing etc.). How is that worse than "it'll go away", which it clearly hasn't.Bob O'H
July 20, 2020
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Population density is the key. That much is obvious. Jerry has made a minor career out of debunking the comparison. The problem with the USA is the people. There are too many of us who really think they know better. And there are too many of us who don't want any of our freedoms infringed upon for a virus whose fatality rate is dropping. Too many people who understand that life comes with risks and they are willing to take them, Too many people who don't like being told how they have to live their lives. We also have an unhealthy population. Obesity has become a public health crisis. Most of it is due to poor personal choices. But anyway- yes, if we could spread out the people, as in Canada, we would fare much the same, regardless of our inclinations.ET
July 19, 2020
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Jerry, I saw that comment on Twitter this afternoon and it’s bizarre, Florida’s new cases, new hospitalizations, and new deaths from Covid have all three risen drastically in the last month. I suspect he’s trying to pick one outlier point from two weeks ago and claim the trend line as such. Or he’s trying to make some bullshit argument about the death *rate* going down. The absolute numbers of hospitalizations and deaths here in Florida have doubled in the last month and a half. https://tinyurl.com/y5rn7r2lRetired Physicist
July 19, 2020
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ET, so, what about the comparison made in the linked article do you disagree with? Is it the part that said it was difficult to draw conclusions because of the differences in population density? I wouldn’t think so. Is it the part that said that the Canadian government response was far less partisan? That is easily confirmed. Is it the part about the Canadian health care system making it easier for some to seek help because they won’t have to worry about hospital bills? Again, easily confirmed. Frankly, I don’t understand your animosity towards this article. An article which, it appears obvious, you have not read. All it did was point out the differences in the two approaches that may have resulted in different outcomes. Or are you one of those who feel that we are so superior to other countries that we can’t learn from their experiences? Personally, I think we should look at all other experiences and not be so blinded by our pride that we refuse to admit that other approaches may be better than ours. But don’t get me wrong. I am not claiming that Canada’s approach is better than ours, just that we would be foolish to ignore it.Mac McTavish
July 19, 2020
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Again- The USA - Canada comparison has already been discussed. The comparison has been deemed a fool's errand for obvious reasons. Notice my response to your initial post did NOT say that YOU, personally, were being desperate: You have to be desperate to compare Canada with the USA. Or do you feel guilty.ET
July 19, 2020
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ET
Meaning you didn’t add anything of substance.
All I did was provide a link to an article for people to discuss. No more, no less. Your decision to deride and insult rather than address substance is a prime example of the type of childish foolishness that my father cautioned me to avoid so as not to make a fool of myself.Mac McTavish
July 19, 2020
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Cholesterol-lowering drug could see coronavirus treated like common cold, study finds
"By understanding how the SARS-CoV-2 controls our metabolism, we can wrestle back control from the virus and deprive it from the very resources it needs to survive," said Prof Yaakov Nahmias from the Hebrew University of Jerusalem. He continued: "With second-wave infections spiking in countries across the globe, these findings couldn't come at a better time. "If our findings are borne out by clinical studies, this course of treatment could potentially downgrade Covid-19's severity into nothing worse than a common cold."
The best news is humans are looking at how to fight this thing from all angles.ET
July 19, 2020
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For its first public study, Lucy, a new tool for analyzing conversations on Twitter , launched by the Majorelle agency, ventures into the field of “anti” to study the behavior of seven communities: anti-5G, anti big pharma, anti-vaccines, anti-nucelaria, anti-tech, the supporters of the thesis of "the revenge of nature against man" and the unscientific followers of hydroxychloroquine. "Certain pockets of public opinion are clearly overexposed to conspiratorial conversations," the study said. Certain factors, such as following certain accounts, will encourage overexposure to these messages. “While 7% of French people follow at least one alternative media *, they are 35% among anti-nuclear agents and 57% among anti-vaccines. This means that when you follow at least one alternative media, the probability of being exposed to skeptical content explodes: 75% of skeptics who follow an alternative media are exposed to at least one anti-vaccine content every month (against 14% among French people on average), 72% are exposed to anti-5G content (compared to 13% among French people on average) or 86% are exposed to pro-chloroquine content (compared to 24% among French people on average) ). In other words, those who follow alternative media are literally regularly bombarded with messages on certain themes. This is verified with chloroquine: "The French received an average of 20 pro-chloroquine messages per day between May 8 and June 8, 2020. Those who follow at least one alternative medium received 230 per day on average in the same period ”, details the study. If the period between May 8 and June 8 could have given the impression that the whole of France was passionate about chloroquine, in a fairly counter-intuitive way, this is much less true on the panel: while the social network seemed to saturate of messages on chloroquine, in reality only 1.8% of French accounts expressed themselves on this subject https://www.lepoint.fr/politique/anti-vaccins-anti-5g-hydroxychloroquine-quand-la-defiance-deferle-sur-twitter-10-07-2020-2383828_20.phprhampton7
July 19, 2020
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My family is taking the medically recommended prophylaxis. It has protected us from the flu for over a decade. I have no doubts that it will protect us against covid-19ET
July 19, 2020
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'A doubting Thomas' is a term often used in reference to the biblical story of the apostle Thomas, as indicated in the Biblical text above who refused to believe that the other apostles had seen the resurrected Jesus until he could actually see and feel the wounds Jesus received during his crucifixion. It is never in doubt that many world governments, including our own, the Kenyan Government, were never prepared for the virus; nobody was. That is why it is referred to as 'novel' meaning new. It is also true that many mistakes and initial, mix-ups and false test results have added to the confusion like our own Lancet Laboratories in Nairobi and The Kenya Medical Research Institute (KEMRI) /MOH, tiff over discordant Covid19 test results. But it should not fool you to believe that the virus is not there. Of course, it is not there, or that is just a figment of the government for clowns who have not come face to face with it. Trump's previous stance, chided presumed Democratic presidential nominee Joe Biden when he wore a black mask during the 'Memorial Day.' In swallowing his previous words, Trump had this to say before leaving White House: "I've never been against masks, but I do believe they have a time and a place." On Monday 13, July 2020, Former "Love Connection" and "Wheel of Fortune" game show host Chuck Woolery accused medical professionals and Democrats of lying about the virus to hurt the economy and President Trump's reelection chances. But on Wednesday 15th, July 2020, he had to eat humble pie and forced out of embarrassment rather than the guilt to delete his tweeter account after his son tested positive for Covid19. An Ohio veteran, Richard Rose III had this to say about wearing a face mask, two months before he got covid19 and went down with it: "I've made it this far by not buying into that damn hype." And of course, Pastor Landon Spradlin described the news of covid19 as mass 'hysteria' over nothing, claiming the virus is overhyped. He died after attending Louisiana Mardi Gras Festivals... to 'save souls.' You or someone close to you may not be there next time an article of this kind appears in newspapers or social media, so if you have never believed in coronavirus, you better do. You are not better than the 12,062 positive Kenyans or 222 people who have died, so as of 17th July 2020. They were taxpayers, mothers, fathers, brothers, sisters and uncles, and aunties just like you are. Stay Safe. https://www.standardmedia.co.ke/ureport/article/2001379312/coronavirus-skeptics-don-t-be-a-doubting-thomas-over-your-own-liferhampton7
July 19, 2020
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LOL! @ Mac McTavish- We have already beaten your dead horse- that is it's a fool that tries to compare Canada and the USA. Meaning you didn't add anything of substance.ET
July 19, 2020
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LoL! You have to be desperate to compare Canada with the USA.
As my father used to say, “ If you have nothing of substance to say, saying anything just makes you look like a fool.” I suggest that you might want to heed his advice.Mac McTavish
July 19, 2020
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Comment this morning by Alex Berenson
The real story out of Florida is incredible: 150,000 #SARSCoV2 positive tests in the last two weeks, and effectively NO change in either total hospitalizations or ICU use statewide. Case mix? A huge advance in medicine? This is the story real reporters should chase.
By the way Texas has done better than Canada. New York and New Jersey if countries would be world leaders in deaths per million.jerry
July 19, 2020
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A prophylaxis exists that could have saved more than 50% of the fatalities. The information is out there. It has been posted on UD many times. Adapt or die. But most of all take responsibility for your actions and your lifeET
July 19, 2020
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LoL! You have to be desperate to compare Canada with the USA.ET
July 19, 2020
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This is an interesting and non-partisan comparison between US response to COVID-19 and that of our neighbors to the North. https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/the_americas/coronavirus-canada-united-states/2020/07/14/0686330a-c14c-11ea-b4f6-cb39cd8940fb_story.htmlMac McTavish
July 19, 2020
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Trump is a salesman as well as president. He has to put a bright side on things or else people would really panic. He has a style that turns a lot of people off. But has he told us anything that was egregiously wrong that wasn’t provided by his brain trust? I believe Fauci told everyone not to worry in early March. Is there anyone in world with a good track record on accuracy? I believe there are a few but they been treated as Cassandra. There is a rooting for the dark side of this pandemic that has generated tons of fake news and fake narratives. It has a new name, “Panic Porn.” We see it here in some of the comments posted. UD is just a microcosm of the much larger world.jerry
July 19, 2020
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Bob, I know you progressive types have blinders on and want to think that Trump is uniquely evil. So I guess that his why you didn't include Nancy Pelosi telling everyone to calm down and go join the big Chinese New Year parties.
So, between “it’s going to go away” and “it’s going to get worse, and a lot of people will die”, which has been more accurate?
Move the goal posts much? We are talking about who made a better prediction, Ferguson are pretty much anyone else. Nothing you have said changes the fact that Ferguson made the worst prediction of all.Barry Arrington
July 19, 2020
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It is working out fine. A very, very, very small % of people are dying. And most were people on their way out or being artificially kept alive. And the fatality rate continues to drop. Evos should be happy to see a case of natural selection in the wild.ET
July 19, 2020
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Thank you Barry for leaving the door wide open. Fortunately, the Washington Post has a few predictions from pres. Trump: Feb. 26:
When you have 15 people [with confirmed cases] — and the 15 within a couple of days is going to be down to close to zero — that’s a pretty good job we’ve done.
The number of cases got nowhere near to zero. Feb. 19:
I think it’s going to work out fine. I think when we get into April, in the warmer weather, that has a very negative effect on that and that type of a virus. So let’s see what happens, but I think it’s going to work out fine.
It isn't working out fine. The warmer weather hasn't helped (also look at Brazil, hardly a chilly country). April 19:
It looks like we’ll be at about a 60,000 [death] mark, which is 40,000 less than the lowest number thought of.
Deaths are now considerably above 60k, and are still rising. April 20:
But we’re going toward 50- or 60,000 people [dead]. That’s at the lower — as you know, the low number was supposed to be 100,000 people. We — we could end up at 50 to 60.
See above. So, between "it's going to go away" and "it's going to get worse, and a lot of people will die", which has been more accurate?Bob O'H
July 19, 2020
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Barry Arrington: Pick any other prediction made by anyone. They were all better than Ferguson’s. You own included? :-)JVL
July 18, 2020
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Bob
Can you provide the figures to back this up?
Pick any other prediction made by anyone. They were all better than Ferguson's. It turns out that we based our policy reaction on the absolute worst projection of all.Barry Arrington
July 18, 2020
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Even if the incompetent demogogues’ predictions were much closer to what would actually happen than Ferguson’s?
Can you provide the figures to back this up?Bob O'H
July 18, 2020
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Sev.
If the predictions of Ferguson’s models were wide of the mark, they were still better than taking medical advice from incompetent demagogues.
Even if the incompetent demogogues' predictions were much closer to what would actually happen than Ferguson's? So let me get this straight. Sev prefers grossly erroneous estimate pushed by someone in a lab coat to a far better estimate advanced by a politician he does not like ("incompetent demagogue" is a phrase that means the same thing as "politician I do not like"). No Sev. In no sense were Ferguson's idiotic predictions "better" than predictions that were orders of magnitude closer to the truth. That you would think they are says volumes about how you prefer your political narrative to truth. That is immensely sad. Barry Arrington
July 18, 2020
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Seven things. Probably more. 1) C19 is very infectious. Probably a lot of other viruses are equally infectious. H1N1 was extremely infectious less than 10 years ago. Many common colds seem to spread quickly. 2) Like other infectious viruses the immune system eventually defeats the virus in most cases. However, it seems that a significant portion of the population’s immune system does not defeat C19 very quickly. They seem mostly to be older people. 3) The C19 virus attacks an important enzyme on certain cell types that has at least two effects. It enables entry to cell and mass replication which destroys the cell. It also inhibits the function of the enzyme which leads to disruption of several processes that lead to clotting and cardiovascular problems. Maybe more but these two alone will cause lasting issues and death. 4) there are drugs that interfere with these two effects of the virus when used appropriately. One is HCQ and another is zinc. We are finding several others that also interfere with the virus’s actions. So there are potential cures available. 5) Opposition to the use of these drugs seems to be political as opposed to medical. There also seems to be financial reasons to oppose or promote certain treatments/drugs. 6) there seems to be no one who has a complete grasp on what to do. For example, no one in authority has a grasp on how to treat the virus since even today there is no official treatment other than palliative or what is called standard care. 7) no one has a good grasp on the cost benefits of any of the social and economic recommendations being put forward. Obviously people are dying from the virus but maybe far more will die from the economic consequences of trying to contain the virus. So no doctor or expert in infectious diseases or economist or politician can have any reliable understanding of what trying to contain the virus will do either medically, socially or economically.jerry
July 18, 2020
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The median age of death in most American states is 80 years old. Someone who is 65 and under has a 0.2% chance of dying from COVID-19. Anyone who uses anti-bacterial soaps and lotions on a constant basis are working to weaken their own immune systems. The masks are a breeding ground for a lot of nasty stuff, since people are more concerned with washing their hands than cleaning their masks. If this were a true biological emergency situation, the masks would also cover the eyes and have a filtration system built in. The masks people are wearing end up exhaling towards their eyes. Anyone who wears glasses knows it's not a tight fit between the nose and eyes. Biological agents of any kind can use the eyes just as easily as the mouth and nose to infect someone. The masks, much like constant hand washing, do nothing to improve the chances of someone staying healthy. It's a psychological visual and nothing more. As far as novel goes, this is actually called SARS-COV-2, which is from the same family as SARS-COV. That was out in the public about 20 years ago. Novel does not mean the body cannot protect itself anymore than it means millions are going to start dying who do not have certain conditions that must be met first.BobRyan
July 17, 2020
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Science is only as good as the people who are supposed to follow it. And it seems lime an inexpensive OTC covid-19 remedy exists. The research is there. All that is needed is for people to follow itET
July 17, 2020
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COVID-19 is not a variant of flu. It is a novel virus, one that doctors have not met before, one for which there is, as yet, no vaccine and no drugs with proven efficacy. If the predictions of Ferguson's models were wide of the mark, they were still better than taking medical advice from incompetent demagogues. And until drugs and vaccines become available then preventative measures such as masks, social distancing and isolation are the only effective ways of slowing the disease. Those areas that have been rigorous in the practice of such measures have seen the benefits. those which didn't are suffering the consequences. Not the leadership, of course, they are well-protected but ordinary people are dying for the political convenience of their supposedly responsible leaders. No, science does not need arrogance and politicking. The researchers in the laboratories and the doctors in the hospitals need the time and resources to find the vaccines and drugs and to treat the victims. They don't need to be used as cannon-fodder in election campaigns by politicians who are concerned only about themselves.Seversky
July 17, 2020
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