Dinesh D’Souza on socialism:

_{kairosfocus
November 21, 2021

Defending our Civilization, Geo-strategic issues, Lessons of History, rhetoric

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Defending our Civilization
Geo-strategic issues
Lessons of History
rhetoric}

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Let us watch:

Food for thought. END

PS: As it seems necessary here is the historically anchored political spectrum with Overton Window:

And, here is what we need to know on culture/colour revolution pushes

Comments

The objective some commenters seems to be just to be contrary and nothing more. They offer nothing substantive. They will dwell on minutiae and nit pick. And pick on certain other commenters. A common technique by the nit pickers is take part of a comment and ignore the rest. Then act as if this highly excerpted phrase is the position to be debated or as often done used to attack.jerry_{November 29, 2021
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F/N: To show the depth of manipulation, let me clip further from Barna's report:
The fact that only a slight majority consider themselves to be patriots makes more sense in the context of the reactions of Millennials to a handful of political words and phrases. When asked to provide their reaction to “United States of America,” barely half (53 percent) had a positive reaction. Further, only half (50 percent) had a favorable reaction to the term “democracy.” In both cases, the positive reactions outweighed the negative by about a 2:1 margin. But the research also revealed that a very small proportion of Millennials had a “very positive” reaction to either the “United States of America” (just 23 percent) or “democracy” (18 percent).
And:
The other term explored was “socialism,” which generated a positive impression among one- third of young adults (33 percent) and nearly as widespread of a negative impression (28 percent). It is noteworthy that Millennials are more willing to express their preference of socialism to capitalism in spite of the fact that fewer of them have a positive point- of-view on socialism. As noted, a previous study found that most Americans – and Millennials, in particular – who generally express a preference for socialism do not actually know what socialism entails in practice. iv These rather uninspiring views of elements within the political sphere match the view that Millennials possess of elected government officials. Less than one out of every five Millennials (15 percent) said they “always or almost always” trust elected government officials to tell the truth or to do what is right, while twice as many (28 percent) said they “sometimes” trust such officeholders. That positioned elected officials as among the least trusted influence agents in our culture. The same ambivalent outlook toward contemporary America is reflected in the willingness of Millennials to sacrifice their life for either the good of the country (26 percent would “definitely” do so) or their freedom (41 percent).
Notice, the significant negative reaction to democracy, i.e. by context big-C Constitutional, modern representational democracy? (The UK has a small-c constitution, a framework of Govt but no actual declared Constitution, by contrast. In principle any act of parliament can be of constitutional character, a huge flaw dependent on a tradition of restraint.) This can be coupled to socialism and the comparative reaction to that term and to capitalism. That there is not a great warmth to socialism even as it is preferred reflects the toxic polarised dishonest climate in which they have formed their views. They should not be ignorant of what socialism is about, nor should they be vulnerable to the inevitably tiny hard core of radicals running about. And yes Lenin and co were a tiny hard core. Oh that fatal train ride across Germany that took Lenin to Russia. What we are seeing is a signature of the cultivation of fatal disaffection, designed to undermine the strength of conviction required to resist the radicals. The disaffection from Constitutional democracy reflects a particularly destructive breakdown, as the historically anchored spectrum in the OP shows, the real alternative is via breakdown of the BATNA of lawfulness, slide into lawless ideological oligarchy. Most likely dominated by open or disguised culture form marxists. With ruinous consequences. KF KFkairosfocus_{November 29, 2021
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PPPS: Do I need to speak to exploitation of a mismanaged pandemic to push vaccine cards used as loyalty tests and discriminatory policies with QR code based surveillance and control? Do I need to point to digital drivers licence pushes that overlap? Do I need to say "no man could buy or sell, save . . ."? He who would control and surveil the economy to the point where basic consumption can be blocked at will is a misanthrope and menace to civilisation.kairosfocus_{November 28, 2021
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@Joe Schooner I don't know what you are saying, you present capitalism and socialism as 2 options in a choice, do you not?mohammadnursyamsu_{November 28, 2021
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JS, we were not born yesterday. The USA is the leading Capitalist country, with a more or less lawful, free enterprise market economy with a welfare state and a significant government sector. The Socialists in question have been on the attack, characterising that as wholly illegitimate, using marxist, culture and dirty colour revolution tactics [cf adaptation of a SOCOM chart and the McFaul list in the OP as updated] which include things like the global racism thesis, the white supremacism thesis [after 60+ years of largely successful policy to marginalise racism], the stolen land thesis [essentially all lands on earth have been fought over, conquered and reconquered], the "right wing" nazism/fascism accusation [actually, variants of socialism], the push to abolish police [outright anti-civilisational!] and more, including allowing a very vocal "squad" of radicals and openly marxist movements to drive policy agendas, not to mention suppressing the substance and significance of the collapse of the socialist bloc in 89 - 91. Such clearly defines what sort of socialism is involved as exceedingly radical, totalitarian and essentially lawless as well as intellectually grossly dishonest. So, the pretence that sufficient "definition"/"detail" is absent fails and is simply a case of hyperskeptical resistance to unwelcome exposure. The reality is, the intellectual classes, the academy, the dominant media, major policy shapers and opinion leaders have willfully refused to face the lessons from 89 - 91 and so have betrayed duty to civilisation, earning the title addressed to the radical Jacobins after 1789 on led to the terror: misanthropes. KF PS: Sufficient was said to identify scale of health sector, ~1/8 of economy and direct regulatory impact on employment where labour is ~ 2/3 GDP. the direct import of leverage over so much of the economy is centralised bureaucratised control, leading to the information choking and perishability of value information to solve the resource allocation problem first identified in the literature by von Mises in the '20's and demonstrated to be a driving factor in collapse of the socialist bloc 89 - 91. See 136 above. PPS: I add a food for thought clip from Howard Hyde at AT, "When Everyone's a White Supremacist, No One Is" in which he speaks to:
. . . the left's Orwellian decades-long project to hijack the language in order to control the thoughts which are permissible, indeed possible, for the masses. We have come to the point where White is Black and Black is White. But it goes beyond even that. In order to understand the left's language, the first and simplest thing you can do is put any and all charged terms in quotes. When you hear Black, hear "Black," and translate it. Likewise with "White," "White supremacist," and any other term that the left attempts to manipulate your mind with . . . . Once upon a time in America, White supremacy was a real thing, an evil with the real ability to affect non-white people's lives and hold them back from achieving their goals. That time mostly came to a close around August 28, 1963. Something about a speech on the Washington Mall and a high watermark for inter-racial relations in our great country. But racial harmony does not suit the needs of the radical Marxist left and its revolutionary plans to overthrow America, so the leftists took something that all decent Americans — liberal, conservative, Republican, or Democrat — are against, and expanded its definition in order to intimidate resistance into submission. Soon the label of "White supremacist" was attached not just to people advocating for segregation or the active suppression of non-whites, but expanded to include anyone opposed to "affirmative action" social policies. Or to quotas in hiring and university admissions. Or to creating a new holiday (Martin Luther King Day) on a date for which one's state already had a longstanding tradition, as happened in Arizona. Now, 58 years after Martin Luther King's "I Have a Dream" speech, the defamatory label of "White supremacist" is glued to anyone who lacks zeal for the radical left's revolutionary agenda.
Extend to any and all other culture form marxist oppressor/victim dichotomies and the linked issue of dirty form culture/colour revolution and power backed red guards attacking targets to impose mob rule by riot, arson and mayhem.kairosfocus_{November 28, 2021
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PS: Government takeover of what 1/8 of the economy intersecting with employment so some 2/3 of the economy is a case that falls under information choking and value disintegration.
Details please.Joe Schooner_{November 28, 2021
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JS, sufficient is on the table to specify what type of capitalism is on the table…
No. What is on the table is your very detailed definition of capitalism and socialism against a poorly designed survey question.Joe Schooner_{November 28, 2021
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Jerry, the misinformation is deep, widespread and willful given the magnitude of the collapse of the socialist bloc 89 - 91, within living memory with hundreds of millions of surviving eyewitnesses. That is why we need to highlight this as a key case of debasement of mind in our civilisation. A matter not unrelated to the central concerns of UD. KFkairosfocus_{November 28, 2021
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PS: Government takeover of what 1/8 of the economy intersecting with employment so some 2/3 of the economy is a case that falls under information choking and value disintegration.kairosfocus_{November 28, 2021
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JS, sufficient is on the table to specify what type of capitalism is on the table and by dint of the sharp rejection and what is being pushed as socialism including by street and policy action, the radical nature of the socialism in question is also fairly clear. Where refusal to reckon with 89 - 91 properly speaks further volumes, We weren't born yesterday and we have seen radical agit prop before. KFkairosfocus_{November 28, 2021
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MN
More of your charade, where you propose socialism as being a legitemate option, instead of a dysfunctional ideology.
Hmm. there was a proposal for socialism? Can you link to it.Joe Schooner_{November 28, 2021
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@Joe Schooner More of your charade, where you propose socialism as being a legitemate option, instead of a dysfunctional ideology. Let us ignore the holocaust, and Uygur and Tibetan genocidal policies, and look at the economic aspects of socialist politics. It's ridiculous to regard socialism as other than a dysfunctional ideology. We can see that the current generation socialits in politics, mostly generation X I guess, is already a big fan of authoritarianism, censorship, political persecution by the government. It's totally disgusting, they are already beyond redemption. They are beyond friendship, to have a personal relationship with them, because of their joky support for political persecution, like it's the funniest thing in the world. It is a trend that is only getting worse with the millenial socialists. It is the total stupidity of people who are clueless about anything subjective. On facebook there are all the fact obsessed people demanding evidence for God, or God is thrown out. Which means they throw out anything that is subjective, because it is not objective. So they throw out God, but they also throw out love, because love is subjective as well. Or, rather they throw out the subjective love, and then objectify love, as something that can be measured, and calculated.Totally pathological, mental disorder, mental illness. And actually that ignorance about subjectivity, it is the fault of all the phony creationists / intelligent design proponents, to not properly teach the difference between subjectivity and objectivity, as they are inherently creationist concepts.mohammadnursyamsu_{November 28, 2021
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Is there another option that should have been included?
They should have surveyed specific aspects of the socialism/capitalism question, with more nuanced options. For example: How would you prefer healthcare to be delivered? A) an unregulated privately run healthcare system with no taxpayer funding. B) a regulated privately run healthcare system with no taxpayer funding. C) a government regulated and taxpayer funded health care system, operated by the private sector. D) a healthcare system that is fully operated by government and funded by taxpayers. Similar questions could be asked about the different aspects of capitalism vs socialism. In this way you could draw a more accurate conclusion about how millennials actually feel about the issue. The only thing you could conclude about the question that was asked is that a majority of millennials are not happy with how the economy is being run. Not surprising given 2008 and other economic/financial news over the last couple decades.Joe Schooner_{November 28, 2021
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Re JS: As was noted in the prior thread, the advocacy of socialism as opposed to Capitalism (given context) is a huge red flag as it has potentially ruinous implications for civilisation and indicts those who have shaped ideas, education, media, policy and opinion leadership since 1990.
Without a clear idea of what they mean by capitalism and socialism, drawing any conclusion from the response to a survey would be misleading. Both terms carry the baggage of the evils conducted in the name of each. Erecting a strawman over the outcome of a poorly designed survey because it corresponds to your “end-is-nigh” narrative does not make it any more accurateJoe Schooner_{November 28, 2021
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Re JS: As was noted in the prior thread, the advocacy of socialism as opposed to Capitalism (given context) is a huge red flag as it has potentially ruinous implications for civilisation and indicts those who have shaped ideas, education, media, policy and opinion leadership since 1990. That has to be settled as of first urgency. KFkairosfocus_{November 28, 2021
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F/N, as the particular form of Capitalism involved in the US is mixed economy, welfare, more or less lawful state, with sometimes over regulated but generally fairly free enterprise and is market based, it is fairly obvious that the sort of Socialism being advocated is quite radical. KF PS: Is there any advocacy for mercantilism, feudalism or a classical slave state?kairosfocus_{November 28, 2021
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it is 18 – 40
Then they are definitely Ill informed. The usual breakdowns are different but his will do.jerry_{November 28, 2021
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JS, we can make a pretty good inference from the current political pushes in the USA, as was noted. You neatly side stepped that in order to project preconception on my part. KFkairosfocus_{November 28, 2021
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Jerry, it is 18 - 40 Barna used, so it includes those who voted. KFkairosfocus_{November 28, 2021
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that only gives the options of capitalism and socialism.
Is there another option that should have been included? Both capitalism and socialism have many variants. We have established that millennials are I’ll informed when they say they endorse socialism. What else are they I’ll informed on? The next demographic group after millennials are probably more I’ll informed as they overwhelmingly voted for Biden. By the way most people are generally I’ll informed. Hans Rosling discovered the more educated one was, the less they knew about the world. Maybe it’s because they are taught untruths in educational institutions. Certainly we know this is true relevant for Evolution.jerry_{November 28, 2021
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So, prentended ignorance as to what is meant, is answered by facts on the ground and so stands exposed as so much evasive rhetorical squid ink. KF
Are you honestly suggesting that the majority of millennials responding to that survey are in favor of “socialist statism, command-control of economy and linked political messianism tied to attempted tainting of lawful state free enterprise market based economic and social organisation”? Only someone with a preconceived opinion would draw this conclusion from a question that only gives the options of capitalism and socialism.Joe Schooner_{November 28, 2021
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JS, there is more than enough evidence, starting with the history of the past 170 years, to identify what "Socialism" is and invites, or predictably leads to. The attempt addressed by D'Souza, to suggest that Scandinavia is an example, manifestly fails by willful confusion of social welfare provisions for socialist statism, command-control of economy and linked political messianism tied to attempted tainting of lawful state free enterprise market based economic and social organisation; where provisions for welfare are ancient, just read Lev 19:9 - 18, the context for that central ethical principle you have dismissed (as it is part of the first duties of responsible reason) "love thy neighbour as thyself." We also can see for ourselves from the current culture form marxism push and its so-called critical theories [which are all too prevalent in the academy and are influencing education, media, policy, law and government], what socialism would mean in context -- Frankfurt School and derived variant, culture form Marxism, which from the sort of dirty colour revolution tactics and state protected red guards trying to impose mob rule and destruction -- is plain. Just, "abolish the police" is sufficient to show the fundamental lawlessness and anti civilisational character. So, prentended ignorance as to what is meant, is answered by facts on the ground and so stands exposed as so much evasive rhetorical squid ink. KFkairosfocus_{November 28, 2021
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Here are some traits of millennials that KF conveniently overlooks: -> tech savvy -> family-oriented -> achievement oriented -> socially conscious -> ethically diverse and optimistic -> embrace experiences and ethical spending -> educated and knowledgeable -> health conscious -> spiritually conscious -> embrace a work-life balance -> they collaborate and cooperate -> donate more to charity -> tolerant of different cultures and lifestyles. In spite of their faults, as all generations have faults, the western world will benefit from their emergence into levels of authority.Joe Schooner_{November 28, 2021
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This is the context in which we are reminded of the underlying issue highlighted by Barna, that “[c]lose to one-half of young adults say they prefer socialism to capitalism,”…
It has already been pointed out that there is no consensus on what socialism means. The survey question was not specific and as such any results from it are suspect. It is highly likely that the millennials were thing in regards to what they perceived to be socialist policies. Things like universal health care, paid maternity leave, paid sick days, mandatory vacation pay, higher minimum wage, possibly gun control, higher (ie fair) taxes for the rich, and so on. You are using the results of a flawed survey to erect your own personal strawman. For the record.Joe Schooner_{November 28, 2021
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Jerry, the issue is a disguised computer architecture, information processing problem [as I once argued in a letter to a leading newspaper in my native land 30 years back]. Economics is about allocation of scarce resources across competing uses, leading to the opportunity cost principle. That is, the true cost of a resource R used in a "best" option X, is the neighbouring next best option foregone, X'. I use neighbouring to highlight that this is a possible, neighbouring worlds problem. In that context, markets emerge as means by which potential users bid for the resources and suppliers bid to provide same. The supply-demand-price-quantity schedule X-graph emerges, defining equilibrium for R. The natural market price emerges at the equilibrium intersection of S and D vs P and Q. This extends across a great many resources, goods, services, ideas etc, with of course work as forced ordered motion requiring energy sources and technologies as a key infrastructure, so too, transportation and communication networks. Money is a general good acting as medium of exchange, [imperfect!] yardstick and store of value. Where, as there are constraints, there is a tendency of economies to saturate along a production possibilities frontier, which also leads to oscillatory behaviour, with quasi-periodic business cycles of various periods most famously the 8 - 11 year one. But we should not overlook the Kondratiev/Schumpeter long wave tied to generational changes in basic productive factors, 30 - 70 years. (See my short summary here.) In that context, it can be shown that there is a general, macro equilibrium as the markets interact in a matrix, the Leontief analysis and linked tabulation of economic sectors yielding GDP as a measure of annual value added emerge. The point is, we are dealing with millions to billions of direct and indirect interactions in a dynamic, rapidly changing system subject to local, regional and global shocks, which is massively nonlinear. Attempted centralised command and control processing of the grand system then fairly obviously leads directly to information choking and unreliability/perishability of valuations, breaking the system's ability to reach near equilibrium. Which is precisely what led to collapse of the socialist bloc in the 1980's. Instead, leaving the planning in the main to firms and families acting through free markets in a lawful state is far more robust, with of course some provision of safety nets and government as a key but limited player. This is what has been subverted by those academics who shut their eyes to what happened in the years leading up to 1989 - 91. KFkairosfocus_{November 28, 2021
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Seversky (attn Jerry), Rolls Royce may be more relevant than we think, as a main business has long been manufacture of engines. Seventy or eighty years ago, the Merlin series literally saved the world, starting with the Spitfire and the more abundant Hurricane in 1940, where too, even the P51 had a licence built Merlin. Since then, Rolls Royce jet engines have been a major factor in mass air transport. Yes, the luxury car market may be a limited market, but it was a context for developing that engine production competitive advantage. KFkairosfocus_{November 28, 2021
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JS, your self-disclosed fundamental irrationality and disregard for moral government of reason towards truth, right reason, warrant, justice etc have been duly noted and so further comment on matters you raise is for record. At length, you have been forced to acknowledge "[t]he best system is a regulated and taxed free market system. Where the controversy arises is how it is regulated and how it is taxed." Unhappily worded, the issue is lawful, free enterprise, market based economic organisation and a community culture that buttresses lawful liberty, where government is not the centre of the economic universe. It provides services that in the main support the civil peace of justice, providing a common core of services towards the good . . . or, at least, it should. This is the context in which we are reminded of the underlying issue highlighted by Barna, that "[c]lose to one-half of young adults say they prefer socialism to capitalism," reflecting that they have been badly misled by academic, educational, media and political leadership in ways that potentially destabilise the requisites of a sound economic organisation. Which is the reason for the above OP, a lecture towards correction of some of the errors that have become dangerously prevalent. KFkairosfocus_{November 28, 2021
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If someone has something better, propose it and see if there is any evidence to support their opinion.
The best system is a regulated and taxed free market system. Where the controversy arises is how it is regulated and how it is taxed.Joe Schooner_{November 27, 2021
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Until the unleash of the free market economy in the 1700’s first partially in England and then in the English colonies there was little economic growth since records were kept. There were some advancements for the ruling class but not the common person. Then in the early 1800’s economic gdp started growing exponentially. To say it is not perfect as many malcontents are prone to do is to belie the great changes for the better that has taken place for the common man. If someone has something better, propose it and see if there is any evidence to support their opinion. My guess there isn’t any or else they would have already done so.jerry_{November 27, 2021
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Again, this is not about rational issues. Rational issues are complicated, have many aspects, and it requires a hodgepodge of all kinds of wisdom, knowledge, to deal with it. Socialism destroys that hodgepodge of common sense to deal with issues, to replace common sense with something random, like critical race theory. The psychology of socialism is to calculate the best result of a choice, using some kind of formula. So then critical race theory is one such formula to calculate policy with. These critical race theorists, use critical race theory, in all their decisionmaking. Instead of using common sense, the hodgepodge. So the real meaning of socialism is to replace the free subjective human spirit making decisions, with some kind of formulaic, calculated way of making decisions.mohammadnursyamsu_{November 27, 2021
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