Uncommon Descent Serving The Intelligent Design Community

I r edumakated

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Science and scientists, especially in America, are wonderful. I am currently laying on my couch, playing music from my laptop, and will probably turn on my HDTV later on to just enjoy a nice relaxing evening. Without scientists none of this would be possible.

However, sometimes scientists need to “know their role.” What I mean by that is how whenever faced with a dissenting viewpoint, some scientists tend to produce massive arguments to discredit the dissenter; one of the problem with this, however, is their arguments are based upon logical fallacies. That might make for a good way to vent, but it doesn’t make it a good argument.

Take, for instance, Dawkins, Panda’s Thumb, et al, and their recent treatment of Dembski’s class curriculum. I could offer quotes, but I’m sure we’ve seen most of them. Rather, what I believe to be an adequate summary of the arguments against Dembski’s curriculum is as follows:

“Bill DUMzki r dum! LOL! Iz Xian + ID = soopid. Dawkins r in Demzkis boat, eatin all hiz cookies! LOL!!!!1111!!1!!11!!!1”

I wish I could say I were exaggerating, but unfortunately the only thing I changed was the composition of the words.

Regardless, everyone is attacking Bill, and subsequently the class and the seminary, for a few issues. Here is what they make fun of (note: they don’t offer a legitimate refutation against it, they merely mock it):

  • Dembski wants students to actively engage anti-ID people by posting on anti-ID blogs. They [the critics] see this as trolling, rather than what it is; forcing a student out of the classroom and out of theory and putting what he has learned into practice (oh the horror!). So apparently forcing the student to engage the opposition (which, from an anti-ID point of view, opens the door to “convert” someone, for lack of a better term) is wrong? No wonder there is so much intellectual inbreeding occurring in American universities.
  • At the PhD level, students are required to write a Sunday School lesson that teaches on ID. No matter what a person thinks about ID, such lessons would encourage people to go research the issue themselves. If ID is so weak then in their research they should learn of such weaknesses. Let’s just pray to science they never read about the Big Bang or how naturalism leads to an infinite regress!
  • It’s William Dembski – need I say more?

So what is the problem with all of this? The problem is all of the attacks, all of the major arguments, are nothing more than logical fallacies! Even the pet names they have for those in the ID movement show the incapacity of the anti-ID movement to even move toward respectable rhetoric, much less actually research this issue. Think about the terms: Bill “Dumski,” Idiots, etc. It’s one thing to disagree with a position, it’s entirely another to result to childish tactics in order to prove one wrong.

The fallacies that are most often engaged in are:

Ad Hominem – I think the above insults should suffice as evidence. If you need more, simply go here or here. This is a fallacy because it could be that Dembski is actually dumb. It could be that everyone in the ID movement is an idiot. But none of that would adequately show that ID is false or that support for ID is false. Let’s face it, there’s a reason Dawkins doesn’t debate educated theists; he’d lose and he knows it. Imagine your entire argumentation and presentation relies upon logical fallacies, specifically ad hominem, and you’re going up against people who will exploit that, would you put yourself in that situation? Hence why Dawkins cowers when it comes to an actual debate with someone who is actually educated (though he has ventured out a few times – and lost each debate I might add).

Appeal to authority – My friend recently had Michael Dowd comment on his blog, attempting to defend his book (Thank God for Evolution) against the criticisms of my friend. His defense? “Lot’s of smart people liked my book!” Mazel Tov!…and? Now, I understand that this fallacy is mostly to keep in check false claims of authority, but regardless, when someone runs behind authority and leaves it at that, it proves nothing. Even if one is an authority on an issue, all that means is that person should be able to put together a better defense – simply being an authority doesn’t make your arguments valid or free from criticisms.

Appeal to ridicule – “Well he believes in ID and that’s just ridiculous, so why listen to what he has to say?” It might be ridiculous to you; but that you see it as ridiculous, or even if a majority of people see it as ridiculous, is completely irrelevant to the truth of ID.

Questionable Cause – “You believe in God, thus you have to believe in ID.” Okay; you believe in no God, thus you have to believe in naturalism. What of it? That says nothing to the truth of the situation. What if someone denied that 2+2=4 to a math teacher. The math teacher could present evidence, but what if the person said, “You’re only saying that 2+2=4 because you’re a math teacher.” Well, that’s true, being a math teacher means the person should know math. But at the same time, what the math teacher claims is still true, regardless of why he might be saying it. Likewise, someone might believe in God, but that belief in God doesn’t magically negate ID, no more than a belief in no God negates naturalism.

There are many more, but I think the point is made; we get it, you don’t like ID, but instead of sitting there like little children who just had the unpopular kid get into the sandbox with you, why don’t you actually offer up some civil rhetoric to explain why you object?

Comments
Mr Borofsky, Wander over to 'that other place'. There are entire threads laid out for FtK, etc to post. Try to imagine UD with a thread just for Zachriel! 'Nuf said.Nakashima
August 11, 2009
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Joel, UD has opened up considerably since Barry took over. (And especially since he seemingly disappeared???) At least one website maintains a list of some of those who have been "banninated" from UD. Quoting Dembski yet again:
There are plenty of other forums where I mix it up with Darwinists. Think of this blog as my playground. If you have to take a whiz, do it elsewhere.
I think it's more than a little hypocritical for him to maintain a website that disallows criticism, while at the same time requiring his students to post criticism elsewhere.Tajimas D
August 11, 2009
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Mr Borofsky, I've been banned at least twice on this site, and only recalled from the dead once. While the site today does still suffer from immoderate moderation (I think anything criticising Lewis or Chesterton is a quick trip to the baños, and God forbid you can't distinguish Reformed and Lutheran theology!) the criticism is strongest for the semesters during which the course requirement was in place. The 'sight that dare not speak its name' has a thread for all the relevant banninations if you would like to review the record in detail.Nakashima
August 11, 2009
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Skew, is it really just that simple? Think of it this way: How many dissenting views are allowed? I have yet to read a post with more than 20 comments where there isn't at least one dissenting view. So either the moderation is extremely inconsistent, or the supposedly "dissenting" views that are deleted are also rude and uncalled for. Just an observation.Joel Borofsky
August 11, 2009
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Naka - so, you're dissenting, you've mocked UD in two posts (that I've read at least), and you're seriously claiming that UD is "locked down?" If UD were locked down, how could you claim that it's locked down? Tajimas - one constant that I've witnessed among students (including myself) is an unwillingness to relent. Once someone takes the time to put 200 words on a hostile site - granted, 200 words isn't A LOT - my guess is that most students will return to defend their initial statements. Certainly not for eternity, but at least for a few interesting rounds.Joel Borofsky
August 11, 2009
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* Dembski wants students to actively engage anti-ID people by posting on anti-ID blogs. They [the critics] see this as trolling, rather than what it is; forcing a student out of the classroom and out of theory and putting what he has learned into practice (oh the horror!). So apparently forcing the student to engage the opposition (which, from an anti-ID point of view, opens the door to “convert” someone, for lack of a better term) is wrong? No wonder there is so much intellectual inbreeding occurring in American universities.
The criticism of trolling is made because we've seen the kind of things that ID advocates tend to post on those sites on a regular basis. For example, "From Darwin to Hitler" is a regular pseudohistorical theme, and one that would seem to be encouraged from at least one of Dembski's other questions that linked acceptance of evolutionary theory with eugenics, etc. The policy also seems specifically aimed at promoting trolling, since--as I recall--it does not ask students to engage in protracted conversations. The ten posts can be hit-and-runs, and that's exactly the pattern we usually see. As has been pointed out elsewhere, a better pedagogy would likely be asking students to post 5 pro-evolution posts (on pro-ID websites) and 5 anti-evolution posts (on anti-ID websites). Of course, many pro-ID sites, YouTube channels, etc. (including UD when it was under Dembski's iron-gloved velvet fist) disallow comments from people with opposing viewpoints, so perhaps the former part of the assignment would be unmanageable. And of course 20% is far, far too much weight to place on such a trivial thing as posting on Internet blogs.Tajimas D
August 11, 2009
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Mr Borofsky, Without scientists none of this would be possible. I'm pretty sure you would have accomplished the laying down part without the help of science! :) Shocked, shocked to hear bad language in the blogosphere are you? Never heard a 'Darwinbot' or fart noise ever emanate from a fellow of the Discovery Institute? Who was it that compared a scientist to Herman Munster? The name is right on the tip of my tongue... I personally think the asymmetry of running a locked down blog while asking your students to witness for ID on hostile blogs is the "big" issue here. How do you feel about that? Is that a logical fallacy, or merely a moral lapse?Nakashima
August 11, 2009
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/sarc Cuz, dey to busy talkin to Dicky Dee's Space varmits... strangers that come every night, those saucer shaped lights /off The video starts with the famous admission and possibility of intelligent civilizations that may have seeded earth, then at 5:57 mark, "Hey Mr. Spaceman, please take me along" kicks in with Dickey Dee thinking very hard about novel information. To funny. Whats good for the goose and all.DATCG
August 11, 2009
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